The problems with the Bortasqu' are this: Anything it can do the Tor'kaht can do better. Yes it MAY have 5 tac consoles, but realistically using those with DHC is unlikely. You say you just have to know what you're doing with it... I'm a long time player in a group of people in my fleet who excel at building ships to get the most out of them and I've found the Bortasqu' to be sub-par no matter how I build it. It's got a lot of hull yes, but it's severe lack of defense means you have to run full aux power to keep that hull topped off. The autocannon is so ridiculously under-powered it's wrong... the Vesta's phaser drill lance does more damage and that's running full aux power instead of weapons power. It's not usable as a DPS cooldown because to be honest I get far more damage out of 1 DHC than I do the Autocannon. The subspace snare is easily resistible both PvP and many thing PvE. The HoH'sus is a joke, it runs off to attack something and then disappears after taking no damage what-so-ever and then I have to hit the docking procedure for it to reset it, but only get the 4 min cooldown AFTER hitting the docking procedure... which isn't always right away because... oh look didn't realize it was gone because it disappears randomly. It has potential I'll give it that, but even with fleet consoles and such it's just underwhelming when put side by side with the Tor'kaht or even Kamarag.
i think i may have had an impact on the general automatic disapproval of this ship, because at its launch it was bad at doing what other battlecruisers were good at, and i pointed that out quite a bit, and others have repeated all that since then.
other battlecruisers could run DHC builds, beam arrays were very subpar for damage, and there was really nothing you could do to get around that turn rate. since then, all that has changed.
i can make a d'deridex with its 5 turn rate a decent DHC battlecruiser with EPtE1 and 4 RCS consoles, surely i could do the same with the bortas now. if i used the one with 5 turn consoles, i bet i could get the thing to have a 25+ turn rate. its inertia score is nothing but a benefit, it turns with its TRIBBLE, its much easier to use DHCs on a negvar then it is on an avenger, becase the avenger has no slide, and with slide the direction your nose points happens more easily independent of turn rate. try them back to back and see.
latly with cruiser commands, nukara consoles, and the general current powercreep, beams are more useful then ever, and the top raw DPS tool. the bortas simply has the most tac consoles of actual cruisers, it should be like the best beam boat in the game, second only perhaps to the scimitar. im actually considering buying the 3 pack of this ship now, given the current sale.
you can run AtB on this easy with a LTC eng. and run your TT and FAW, or TT and CRF. thats all you REALLY need, that lets you run EPtS3, RSP2, DEM3, ET1 and ether EPtW1 or EPtE1. survivability and DPS should be top tier.
The problems with the Bortasqu' are this: Anything it can do the Tor'kaht can do better. Yes it MAY have 5 tac consoles, but realistically using those with DHC is unlikely. You say you just have to know what you're doing with it... I'm a long time player in a group of people in my fleet who excel at building ships to get the most out of them and I've found the Bortasqu' to be sub-par no matter how I build it. It's got a lot of hull yes, but it's severe lack of defense means you have to run full aux power to keep that hull topped off. The autocannon is so ridiculously under-powered it's wrong... the Vesta's phaser drill lance does more damage and that's running full aux power instead of weapons power. It's not usable as a DPS cooldown because to be honest I get far more damage out of 1 DHC than I do the Autocannon. The subspace snare is easily resistible both PvP and many thing PvE. The HoH'sus is a joke, it runs off to attack something and then disappears after taking no damage what-so-ever and then I have to hit the docking procedure for it to reset it, but only get the 4 min cooldown AFTER hitting the docking procedure... which isn't always right away because... oh look didn't realize it was gone because it disappears randomly. It has potential I'll give it that, but even with fleet consoles and such it's just underwhelming when put side by side with the Tor'kaht or even Kamarag.
I'm with this person.
I like the Bort. I like it so much I made a bunch vids of it. Cannons of course. Here's one of them.
And I know that's not a top damage build, I think the intent of the video is clear on that. Just saying, as many posters have, you CAN do a lot with this ship. But...
does it need to be so much work and does it really need to be behind these obviously lesser ships?
So with the combination of how crazy my recent A2B/FAW/DEM Fed boat attempt was and the ship sale I picked up the Bort to give it a spin.
Call me shallow, but the first thing that struck me, Why is there windows on the warp nacelles? I was under the impression that it was very hazardous to be anywhere near a live warp nacelle, isn't that why they are normally on struts or wings away from the crew?
Anyway, mechanics wise it really is fairly easy to make the thing turn decently with the embassy turn consoles. An EPtX/A2B/DEM will just barely fit with a commander + ensign, leaving the lt.com slot to fill with attack patterns. Pretty fun vs. the more normal com + lt. com engineering build.
The set consoles are fun, but at least in my opinion, take up way too much room. Compounded by the fact you need to give up 2-3 engineering slots to get the thing to turn really limits things. (take the Tactical cruiser, 3 set + 2 turn + 5 Tac = 0 left for survivability)
Still debating whether the 2 piece set bonus is worth it, and if so which consoles. Auto-cannon + snare? Doesn't really work well with a FAW Setup, but better then having the target behind me. The BoP is fine with a FAW setup, but the cannon without the snare and the snare without the cannon both aren't terribly useful.
All in all it is a very fun ship for killing Borg with, but for me it either too fragile or not nimble enough ,depending on build, for all the time use. The ship really feels more like a really expensive tier 5 ship rather then a Fleet ship. With the Fleet Negh'Var being a tougher ship and how fast the console slots go...
Your sort of buying a gimped fleet Negh'Var and a gimped fleet Tor'Khat all-on-one setup. Sure it is nice being able to change things up, but your better off just buying both of the fleet ships.
Call me shallow, but the first thing that struck me, Why is there windows on the warp nacelles? I was under the impression that it was very hazardous to be anywhere near a live warp nacelle, isn't that why they are normally on struts or wings away from the crew?
The Enterprise-D had a small control room in the nacelle, with an observation/access hatch and forcefield: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_Beholder_%28episode%29
IIRC, they could even stand in the open hatch without the forcefield and received no immediate harm (but the ship wasn't flying at warp and there might be radiation concerns).
I think under normal conditions they don't have to be so far away (e.g. Miranda- and Nebula-Class) and in an emergency where nacelle-damage causes a warpcore breach (see TNG: Cause and Effect) the distance makes no difference.
The Bortas is a PVE cruiser. It does best with beam arrays. You do not need any of the set consoles.
Mine does fine in Kerrat as well - it can beat most playes 1v1. The issue with Kerrat is I get ganked by 4 players the second I enter the sector - I have never enjoyed a 1v1 fight in this zone.
It can do more raw damage then the KDF fleet cruisers or any fed cruiser - I would say it even outguns the avenger when using beams. In a pvp mob, it is good fire support dealing pressure damage while specialized teammates alpha strike or heal. It can use RSP + EPTS3 + TT1 + TSS to tank anything for 30 seconds, and has enough hull to hold off bleedthrough.
I find the low turn rate is not that much of a problem, as most of the time you are shooting off in all directions anyway. An escort could outmaneuver it 1v1, but really that is true for all cruisers.
if you want to use the LTC station for tac, your doing it wrong if you dont use the fleet vorcha, sure. if you use it for sci, your proboly better off in a kamarang .if you use it for eng, then you have a ktinga or negvar thats not as good at useing cannons, but can deal more beam damage. theres something seriously wrong with your build if you have any survivability problems with a COM and LTC eng, even with an AtB build. i wouldn't bother with any of its universal consoles, except maybe the auto cannon, but from what ive seen it sucks. i know i could even make DHCs work on it too, with 4-5 turn consoles and EPtE.
i think i may have had an impact on the general automatic disapproval of this ship, because at its launch it was bad at doing what other battlecruisers were good at, and i pointed that out quite a bit, and others have repeated all that since then.
other battlecruisers could run DHC builds, beam arrays were very subpar for damage, and there was really nothing you could do to get around that turn rate. since then, all that has changed.
i can make a d'deridex with its 5 turn rate a decent DHC battlecruiser with EPtE1 and 4 RCS consoles, surely i could do the same with the bortas now. if i used the one with 5 turn consoles, i bet i could get the thing to have a 25+ turn rate. its inertia score is nothing but a benefit, it turns with its TRIBBLE, its much easier to use DHCs on a negvar then it is on an avenger, becase the avenger has no slide, and with slide the direction your nose points happens more easily independent of turn rate. try them back to back and see.
latly with cruiser commands, nukara consoles, and the general current powercreep, beams are more useful then ever, and the top raw DPS tool. the bortas simply has the most tac consoles of actual cruisers, it should be like the best beam boat in the game, second only perhaps to the scimitar. im actually considering buying the 3 pack of this ship now, given the current sale.
you can run AtB on this easy with a LTC eng. and run your TT and FAW, or TT and CRF. thats all you REALLY need, that lets you run EPtS3, RSP2, DEM3, ET1 and ether EPtW1 or EPtE1. survivability and DPS should be top tier.
Yeah I guess you can do Lt Cmdr eng as an a2b build, but if you use Lt Cmdr tac instead and do a2b it wastes a tac ability or two so I haven't really liked doing a2b much on it but I may give the eng heavy a2b layout a try.
I managed to use DHC on it even before LoR and do good in C&H and kerrat with it, but, yes its easier now, but I don't do DHC on PVP much with it anymore because of how powerful a beam boat it is.
I have the 3 pack but don't use the consoles much and only use the tac version on my tac.
I don't play my eng much anymore, but when I do use my eng I use the command version with either eng or sci heavy layouts for a zombie tank/healer build that has more DPS then most. If you are just getting a dps cruiser for your tac you only need the tac version though. The subspace snare disruptor autocannon combo is fun when it works and can get insta kills, but omega and aux2ID are around way to much to make it worth slotting, and the pet still sucks.
The problems with the Bortasqu' are this: Anything it can do the Tor'kaht can do better. Yes it MAY have 5 tac consoles, but realistically using those with DHC is unlikely. You say you just have to know what you're doing with it... I'm a long time player in a group of people in my fleet who excel at building ships to get the most out of them and I've found the Bortasqu' to be sub-par no matter how I build it. It's got a lot of hull yes, but it's severe lack of defense means you have to run full aux power to keep that hull topped off. The autocannon is so ridiculously under-powered it's wrong... the Vesta's phaser drill lance does more damage and that's running full aux power instead of weapons power. It's not usable as a DPS cooldown because to be honest I get far more damage out of 1 DHC than I do the Autocannon. The subspace snare is easily resistible both PvP and many thing PvE. The HoH'sus is a joke, it runs off to attack something and then disappears after taking no damage what-so-ever and then I have to hit the docking procedure for it to reset it, but only get the 4 min cooldown AFTER hitting the docking procedure... which isn't always right away because... oh look didn't realize it was gone because it disappears randomly. It has potential I'll give it that, but even with fleet consoles and such it's just underwhelming when put side by side with the Tor'kaht or even Kamarag.
Lack of defense??? Lack of defense!!! What drugs are you on? Commander engineering slot, ltcm engineering, 5 tac consoles, 4 engi consoles. I'll admit the 1 sci console on the tac is a little bit hard to live with but the command version, 4 tac 4 engi and 2 sci is absolutely fantastic! I don't even have my build maximized, and I can do well in ker'rat with it. It's like complaining the Avenger doesn't have enough defense.
Here's the beamboat build I'm currently using for my Bort. The turn rate is 15.5deg/sec if I turn on strategic manuvering, but it's not really necessary to use that with beams. I also have a fleet Neggie that I've run as a beamboat with a dual A2B build. It's certainly tankier than my Bortasqu' but not nearly as much fun to fly. With 5 tac consoles and 2 copies of FAW cycling, the Bort is very in-your-face. I can't wait for my fleet to unlock the new spire tac consoles.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
18 to 28 isn't much, but its something. with beams its never worth running any command other then the energy weapon drain reducer anyway.
4 or 5 mine holding turn consoles and EPtE can actually let you use DHCs fairly well on the thing, its a pretty funny thing to see
Still, it can help if you need to turn around, or get from point A to point B.
Heck, I was using DHCs on this thing long before turn rates were ever changed. Not saying it was the best choice, but I did enjoy having to actually work at it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
If the set for it did something useful I could see myself using it a lot but it takes up too many slots for a useless set. They kinda burned themselves when they made it so useless and then stated it doesn't sell well.
Comments
other battlecruisers could run DHC builds, beam arrays were very subpar for damage, and there was really nothing you could do to get around that turn rate. since then, all that has changed.
i can make a d'deridex with its 5 turn rate a decent DHC battlecruiser with EPtE1 and 4 RCS consoles, surely i could do the same with the bortas now. if i used the one with 5 turn consoles, i bet i could get the thing to have a 25+ turn rate. its inertia score is nothing but a benefit, it turns with its TRIBBLE, its much easier to use DHCs on a negvar then it is on an avenger, becase the avenger has no slide, and with slide the direction your nose points happens more easily independent of turn rate. try them back to back and see.
latly with cruiser commands, nukara consoles, and the general current powercreep, beams are more useful then ever, and the top raw DPS tool. the bortas simply has the most tac consoles of actual cruisers, it should be like the best beam boat in the game, second only perhaps to the scimitar. im actually considering buying the 3 pack of this ship now, given the current sale.
you can run AtB on this easy with a LTC eng. and run your TT and FAW, or TT and CRF. thats all you REALLY need, that lets you run EPtS3, RSP2, DEM3, ET1 and ether EPtW1 or EPtE1. survivability and DPS should be top tier.
I'm with this person.
I like the Bort. I like it so much I made a bunch vids of it. Cannons of course. Here's one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkw-h3boACc&list=TLjmECkYnNdaMnr1y6VJbgFeslFkbLX4XQ
And I know that's not a top damage build, I think the intent of the video is clear on that. Just saying, as many posters have, you CAN do a lot with this ship. But...
does it need to be so much work and does it really need to be behind these obviously lesser ships?
Call me shallow, but the first thing that struck me, Why is there windows on the warp nacelles? I was under the impression that it was very hazardous to be anywhere near a live warp nacelle, isn't that why they are normally on struts or wings away from the crew?
Anyway, mechanics wise it really is fairly easy to make the thing turn decently with the embassy turn consoles. An EPtX/A2B/DEM will just barely fit with a commander + ensign, leaving the lt.com slot to fill with attack patterns. Pretty fun vs. the more normal com + lt. com engineering build.
The set consoles are fun, but at least in my opinion, take up way too much room. Compounded by the fact you need to give up 2-3 engineering slots to get the thing to turn really limits things. (take the Tactical cruiser, 3 set + 2 turn + 5 Tac = 0 left for survivability)
Still debating whether the 2 piece set bonus is worth it, and if so which consoles. Auto-cannon + snare? Doesn't really work well with a FAW Setup, but better then having the target behind me. The BoP is fine with a FAW setup, but the cannon without the snare and the snare without the cannon both aren't terribly useful.
All in all it is a very fun ship for killing Borg with, but for me it either too fragile or not nimble enough ,depending on build, for all the time use. The ship really feels more like a really expensive tier 5 ship rather then a Fleet ship. With the Fleet Negh'Var being a tougher ship and how fast the console slots go...
Your sort of buying a gimped fleet Negh'Var and a gimped fleet Tor'Khat all-on-one setup. Sure it is nice being able to change things up, but your better off just buying both of the fleet ships.
IIRC, they could even stand in the open hatch without the forcefield and received no immediate harm (but the ship wasn't flying at warp and there might be radiation concerns).
I think under normal conditions they don't have to be so far away (e.g. Miranda- and Nebula-Class) and in an emergency where nacelle-damage causes a warpcore breach (see TNG: Cause and Effect) the distance makes no difference.
Mine does fine in Kerrat as well - it can beat most playes 1v1. The issue with Kerrat is I get ganked by 4 players the second I enter the sector - I have never enjoyed a 1v1 fight in this zone.
It can do more raw damage then the KDF fleet cruisers or any fed cruiser - I would say it even outguns the avenger when using beams. In a pvp mob, it is good fire support dealing pressure damage while specialized teammates alpha strike or heal. It can use RSP + EPTS3 + TT1 + TSS to tank anything for 30 seconds, and has enough hull to hold off bleedthrough.
I find the low turn rate is not that much of a problem, as most of the time you are shooting off in all directions anyway. An escort could outmaneuver it 1v1, but really that is true for all cruisers.
Yeah I guess you can do Lt Cmdr eng as an a2b build, but if you use Lt Cmdr tac instead and do a2b it wastes a tac ability or two so I haven't really liked doing a2b much on it but I may give the eng heavy a2b layout a try.
I managed to use DHC on it even before LoR and do good in C&H and kerrat with it, but, yes its easier now, but I don't do DHC on PVP much with it anymore because of how powerful a beam boat it is.
I have the 3 pack but don't use the consoles much and only use the tac version on my tac.
I don't play my eng much anymore, but when I do use my eng I use the command version with either eng or sci heavy layouts for a zombie tank/healer build that has more DPS then most. If you are just getting a dps cruiser for your tac you only need the tac version though. The subspace snare disruptor autocannon combo is fun when it works and can get insta kills, but omega and aux2ID are around way to much to make it worth slotting, and the pet still sucks.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=churgsbort_0
18 to 28 isn't much, but its something. with beams its never worth running any command other then the energy weapon drain reducer anyway.
4 or 5 mine holding turn consoles and EPtE can actually let you use DHCs fairly well on the thing, its a pretty funny thing to see
Still, it can help if you need to turn around, or get from point A to point B.
Heck, I was using DHCs on this thing long before turn rates were ever changed. Not saying it was the best choice, but I did enjoy having to actually work at it.