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Tactical Escort Retrofit/Dready/Avenger Cloaks
freedumb4eva
Member Posts: 269
Are there any plans to provide these two Federation vessels with cloaking devices by default, and not on consoles?
When these ships were first introduced, there only existed very few Federation and Klingon vessels. There was also a very limited amount of unique consoles for use, usually one unique console per ship. Nowadays, there are several unique consoles that can be used on each ship. This puts a strain on available console slots.
For balance purposes, and to make sure that the Klingon faction remained unique, the cloaking devices for these ships were relegated to consoles at their release. At the time this was very fair since gaining a cloak via a console didn't seem like a terrible limitation. Now, however, I find myself chagrined every time that I cloak in my Tactical Escort Retrofit because I have to sacrifice my Tachyokinetic Converter just to use it.
We now have access to the Romulan faction, which also uses cloaking devices. Therefore, I don't believe that the same balance restrictions should still apply to these cloak capable federation ships. The Klingon faction has a lot more going for it now which makes for a unique experience than just being able to cloak, which is no longer unique at all. I would very much like to see these ships altered so that a cloaking device comes directly on the ship.
The cloaking device should obviously not be a battle cloak, and it should function the same way that it does now. I am wondering if there are any reasons why these ships should still have their cloaking devices limited to a console slot. Having this limitation really restricts the potential of these vessels.
Others have commented that their cloaking devices should be able to be slotted in device slots rather than console slots. I think that there are better ways to implement these cloaking devices, now.
Aside from gameplay options, there does not appear to be any reasons for these cloaking devices to be limited in any way for the Federation since, after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, the Federation was given clearance to deploy cloaking devices on selected ships.
Are there any plans to review this functionality?
When these ships were first introduced, there only existed very few Federation and Klingon vessels. There was also a very limited amount of unique consoles for use, usually one unique console per ship. Nowadays, there are several unique consoles that can be used on each ship. This puts a strain on available console slots.
For balance purposes, and to make sure that the Klingon faction remained unique, the cloaking devices for these ships were relegated to consoles at their release. At the time this was very fair since gaining a cloak via a console didn't seem like a terrible limitation. Now, however, I find myself chagrined every time that I cloak in my Tactical Escort Retrofit because I have to sacrifice my Tachyokinetic Converter just to use it.
We now have access to the Romulan faction, which also uses cloaking devices. Therefore, I don't believe that the same balance restrictions should still apply to these cloak capable federation ships. The Klingon faction has a lot more going for it now which makes for a unique experience than just being able to cloak, which is no longer unique at all. I would very much like to see these ships altered so that a cloaking device comes directly on the ship.
The cloaking device should obviously not be a battle cloak, and it should function the same way that it does now. I am wondering if there are any reasons why these ships should still have their cloaking devices limited to a console slot. Having this limitation really restricts the potential of these vessels.
Others have commented that their cloaking devices should be able to be slotted in device slots rather than console slots. I think that there are better ways to implement these cloaking devices, now.
Aside from gameplay options, there does not appear to be any reasons for these cloaking devices to be limited in any way for the Federation since, after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, the Federation was given clearance to deploy cloaking devices on selected ships.
Are there any plans to review this functionality?
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You can also turn any none battle cloak into battle cloak with the Romulin Fed embassy boff.
Would be nice if they did, as no accords are in place now stopping the Federation from using Cloaking devices.
Kanharn's Memory Alpha.
How can you turn a non battle cloak in to a battle cloak? Federation cloaks cannot be used in combat.
Not a battle cloak, and not on plain old T5 VA ships, but I don't think it's unreasonable to get an integrated cloak on the fleet defiant and galaxy-x.
This was true and remained logical until the Klingon faction began to get ships which not only had cloaking devices, but also unique consoles. Then, the Romulan faction was added with ships which have cloaking devices and nine console slots.
I believe that these cloak-capable Federation ships are at a, now, unnecessary disadvantage when it comes to console slots.
The ability to cloak is unique in that it is the one ability that still exists as stock on many ships. Usually, abilities such as this are in the form of consoles, however this ability still persists as stock.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It's a moot point though, and the way it is now is actually a lot better.
frankly if you want a built in cloak on any fed cloaking vessel it should lose the exra console slot given it (after much fed asking for it) given to them that was to compensate for its use taking up a console slot.
R.I.P
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Bull. Fed cloaking ships have no more total console slots than any non-cloaking Fed ship of the same tier.
EDIT: Make that any other ship of the same tier, period. Just checked.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I disagree since this just feeds in to the unnecessary limitations on these ships just to give them the ability to cloak, when other factions have this ability and then some with their capabilities while maintaining all of their console slots.
To be fair, the Dready does get the Phaser Lance, so perhaps giving it a built-in cloak might not be fair.
The Tactical Escort Retrofit, on the other hand, does not have any other special abilities other than the cloaking device.
The phaser lance has a flatly ridiculous cooldown and can't hit the broad side of a planet. Not much of a compensation.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The Federation ships with the ability to use the cloak get it in the form of a console in order to establish gameplay balance with their KDF counterparts that have integrated cloaks. The console slot you'd have to use is a balancing ploy in order to make the ships be on pair with each other.
You want integrated cloaks? Give up hull and shield mod. to balance it out. Either way, the ships are not remaining the same and just having a cloak integrated.
In a way, I like how they handled the things:
-The Federation, a faction that is not suposed to cloak in the first place has limited number of vessels that have to use a console to do it. The balancing point is that those ships are perfectly fine and on pair with their counterparts even without the cloak.
-The Klingons, a faction that got the cloak via trade has standard cloak on most vessels and battlecloak only on the raiders. The balancing point is that these ships lose a certain amount of hull and shield mod.
-The Romulans, a faction that invented the cloaking has battlecloak on all their ships. The balancing point is that these ships have slower turn rates and certain elements from the singularity core mechanic, like the cloak not working properly if the singularity is charged.
So? They're pre t5 ships and all the Fed ships that use cloak are t5...other than the Bortasqu' I'd like to see you name a t5 KDF ship with cloak and a special console!
The B'rel doesn't have a special console, the umm...oh wait there are no other Klingon t5 ships on the c-store besides the B'rel and the Bortasqu'
So that means Feds have more t5 c-store ships that can cloak, more than the KDF.
Why should all other ships not get something as awesome as you want huh ? You want I want we want we all need it gimme it please ? Out there someone is playing a violin for all you wants and I needs and oh no the my favorite Selfish !! Good luck to you generating all the crutches you must have to space battle lol.
What, pray tell, does the KDF actually have going for it to any great extent? All I've seen over the last 1.5-2 years is the watering-down of what 'edges' or uniqueness the KDF faction has had.
The carriers are now far from unique, and the Federation has a full carrier along with two hybrid carriers that are both more useful than the flight-deck cruisers. The Federation JUST got a battlecruiser that arguably outcompetes the nearest KDF equivalent, the Tor'kaht. They have NEVER, EVER had their edge in science ships depleted, the KDF is still working with a D'kyr clone as our only true science ship. The BoP class has lost ground compared to other classes, especially with Cryptic eagerly throwing universal boffstation onto every ship they release, while the BoP continues to sacrifice a lot of hull and shield modifier for this 'advantage'. Our escort line is underperforming compared to Federation options, especially with the Qin and its borked turn axis (which Cryptic chooses to simply ignore).
The KDF universal consoles have almost all been peddled off to the Federation, who can get the consoles more easily than KDF players can. So every half-wit Feddie can equip a Plasmonic Leech, but a KDF has to fork over 1500 zen to unlock it. So there's that bit of uniqueness lost.
So tell me, what does the KDF faction have 'going for it'? I can't think of anything we have that hasn't been insultingly encroached upon by the Federation faction.
Did he realize the flaw in that logic when the tactical escort retrofit on STO was put on the c-store at the time with the cloak as a part of the package?
lets not delve into canon star trek to try prove a point that has no relevance on the game itself as the game is not hard canon.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The main reason the federation hasn't used cloaking (often) is they're supposed to be against tactics that would revolve around sneak attacks. The writers back then tried to make them look more moral then the other factions. You would assume logically after all the years someone from section 9 would have gathered intel enough to create their own cloaking devices, but then again all it would take would be 1 of those ships with stolen tech to be found and you'd have a war on your hands. So as it stands when the federation is already fighting Klingons/Borg/Undine, and soon the voth and iconians, I doubt they also want to TRIBBLE off the Romulans.
your search did not reveal that the Defiant when it was first put in the Cstore it had one less console slot but a console for cloaking and it was much becried by the feds as unfair because it took up a console slot and diminished the ships capabilites in their eyes. After much forum back and forthing the Devs gave it an extra console slot so the ship would not be seen as gimped in the eyes of those who complained about it.
Its even in one of the very old patch notes that can be found on the STOwiki site.
so stop acting the wounded targ about something that has already been fixed once to please the complaints of the fanbase.
R.I.P
Feds do not clak as a faction in the IP while the Klingons have been doingnit for a very long time and the Romulans even longer. The feds did not even cloak in the IP except for the Defiant and a very few instances of either stealing a ship or a once used variant of cloaking used in a single episode. Blaim Gene Roddenberry for not wanting his heroes cloakng like villians if you do not like it.
As to special abilities for the Defiant, cloaking is its special ability as per the IP. Unless of course you count count the Quad cannons which added to the game due to the Defiant yaving them as a feature in the IP.
On the note of PT2409, the history of the treaty inforced by the President of the UFP is to keep that White Knight image put forth by Gene Roddenbery for his heroes. The fact that anyone can fly a Defiant with cloaking is a game point back at sales, much like the AGT galaxy is a sales item the fans also wanted ingame.
I know his because I have been here long enough to remember when the fans first started clamering for booth to be put ingame.
The Avenger is a loophole in the noncloak treaty in that it does not come with a cloak but can use one if the player already owns one of the two other cloak capable ships ingame.
Remove the cloak as a console on the fed side and the Avenger may well lose its ability to cloak at all since it does not come with said console.
R.I.P
The Defiant is a powerhouse of a vessel by any defintion of the term.
R.I.P
That logic was sound up until the point that every ship that was released began to have 9 console slots. Now, since the level cap is increased to VA and every ship has 9 console slots, some having 10, this logic should no longer apply when reviewing this issue.
Your argument regarding MVAE, imo, does not apply because MV modes are not integrated in to any vessels, whereas cloaking devices are. Since the integration of cloaking devices still exists, and some of the balancing factors during the time that these cloaking Federation ships were released do not seem to apply, I believe then that upon review of the current game environment it would not be unbalanced to provide integrated cloaking devices to these ships.
I believe that, actually, having their cloaking devices as consoles unbalances these ships in a negative way.
I am not asking players, but perhaps someone from PWE/Cryptic if this functionality is planned for a review at any time.
Thanks for your opinions, though.
That is an interesting conundrum, one for the developers to think on, if this functionality is even slated for a review at any time in the future.
That fact was logical at the time of its' release, but now since other vessels all have 9 or 10 console slots, I feel that a review could be made.
I do not see the injustice you claim.
R.I.P
But of course Romulans should keep their innate battle cloaks and absurd ship stats right?
I'm just going to refer you to my previous post again:
We reach, brother.
The same as every other vessel of the sort, except for the fact that the cloaking device takes one console slot putting a strain on the potential of these ships. All other vessels that cloak, outside of the Federation, get cloaking devices and all of their console slots open for upgrades.
I understand your argument and have given my counter-argument. If you do not have anything of value left to say then please omit yourself from the conversation.
You support a re-vamp of the Galaxy-class but want to shut down this conversation regarding cloaking device consoles. Please, refrain from the conversation unless you have something constructive to add.