Have you ever tanked the Borg STFs, or been in a PvP match where every single of your opponents had tractor beams, tractor beam mines, and GW?
Polarize hull works for tractor beams, nothing else, and in all the cases I said above, they tend to chain them on you, since space has no practical CC immunity or diminishing returns.
APO is a higher level power for one, so it should be doing more then polarize hull. Nothing worse then having a tier 1 ensign BOff power do the exact same thing as a Commander mk III BOff power. Secondly, with no diminishing returns on CC, in cases where you're actually tanking or facing multiple opponents, having multiple powers that allow you to break CC is almost a necessity in this game.
So here's the trade off, give CC powers diminishing returns, I mean real diminishing returns, and increase their cool downs across the board. Then make polarize hull work against every single type of CC out there, and lower its cool down. Then give every single ship more then two sci slots, so we can slot multiple copies of this power, then we'll talk about changing APO
Until then, all I see is someone who likes to chain CC their opponents in place, and can't because of polarize hull and APO, and when their CC doesnt' work gets spanked in PvP because they are one trick ponies and don't know how to adapt.
Attack Pattern Omega has a movement buff like Emergency Power to Engines, turn rate buff like Auxiliary Power to Inertial Dampeners, crowd control immunity and damage resistance like the previous power and Polarize Hull, disable immunity like the active period of Engineering Team, and a flat bonus to evasive chance like Evasive Maneuvers. It's essentially five powers in one and only takes up one ability slot. This power alone is what makes Escorts so durable, which in turn caused the uproar over Cruisers being redundant in PvE.
It also makes Cruisers and Sci ships durable, counters the lack of CC diminishing returns, and is at its base a LCDR power, meaning that you have to choose it over some of the other useful high level powers as well.
and I hate escorts, I never pilot them, don't use them, and I'll tell you straight out, as a cruiser and sci ship driver, that APO is not the reason. If you honestly think that, and aren't just trolling to make an argument, you need to go back and learn the game and learn how to play.
And like I said my main is a cruiser tank driver. Take away my APO, and you take away some of my own durability, which defeats your entire argument above.
You're right, but surely you don't think one single power should give immunity to so many things?
There should never be a one-power-beats-all scenario. Immunities and protections should be spread out over numerous powers, not one. When building a ship you should be forced to choose between your level of defence vs your level of defence, not just use one ability to deal with it all.
Currently STO suffers from debuff bloat. There is no way to counter everything at once, if CC wasn't countered by a broad range of effects (EPtE, APO, PH, HE, etc) STO would instanly become the most boring game of "apply the CC first" you can imagine. How about you argue instead for cutting down on the number of CCs instead eh?
By the way, befoer anyone jumps up and starts defending CC as something integral to Trek take a look at Champions online, you'll find the CC effects are exactly the same, STO more or less inherited them from CO rather than have them custom built for space or ground combat.
Edit: Just as a little extra, if you're depending on CCs to do your damage for you you're not doing it right, that's why CCs have to do little damage, otherwise they become main attack powers.
i think it is an awesome boff power...too awesome actually.
but honestly it does simply too much at once...some of it's properties could be shifted to AP: delta, like the hold resist and the turnrate increase
i feel that ap: delta is the stepchild of the 3 attack patterns
i think it is an awesome boff power...too awesome actually.
but honestly it does simply too much at once...some of it's properties could be shifted to AP: delta, like the hold resist and the turnrate increase
i feel that ap: delta is the stepchild of the 3 attack patterns
Move the hold immunity to delta, remove the disable immunity from attack pattern omega, keep the teleport immunity, add a 3 second or so disable immunity to tact team. Improve the effect of polarize hull to include all holds.
It should keep all the other buff, it will continue to be a great attack pattern.
Key here is that APO is expensive (1 needs a Lt.Cmdr. slot and 2/3 need a Cmdr. which unless you Alpha Strike there are better abilities) and has a long CD, unless you care to waste very valuable DOFF slots. So the high cost already balances out the effect, most ships that focus on other abilities can still equip 2 APO, but mostly that means sacrificing there 1 Lt.Cmdr. and 1 Cmdr. tac slots and the fact that some of the stronger other profession ships allow 1 copy of APO if they have 1 Lt.Cmdr. tac which does buff all dmg, including Eject Warp Plasma and Grav Well really is a neat trade off.
You're right, it is expensive. However, there are 5 other expensive abilities and APO counters 3 of them and greatly negates another. Only Aceton Beam isn't affected by APO and nobody uses that anyway.
Edit: Just as a little extra, if you're depending on CCs to do your damage for you you're not doing it right, that's why CCs have to do little damage, otherwise they become main attack powers.
Only a fool would rely on CC to kill, you're right. My issue is that APO counters too many things whilst also giving offensive and defensive buff. It really is 4 or 5 abilities wrapped in to one package.
Move the hold immunity to delta, remove the disable immunity from attack pattern omega, keep the teleport immunity, add a 3 second or so disable immunity to tact team. Improve the effect of polarize hull to include all holds.
It should keep all the other buff, it will continue to be a great attack pattern.
Attack Pattern Omega has a movement buff like Emergency Power to Engines, turn rate buff like Auxiliary Power to Inertial Dampeners, crowd control immunity and damage resistance like the previous power and Polarize Hull, disable immunity like the active period of Engineering Team, and a flat bonus to evasive chance like Evasive Maneuvers. It's essentially five powers in one and only takes up one ability slot. This power alone is what makes Escorts so durable, which in turn caused the uproar over Cruisers being redundant in PvE.
I am fully aware of what APO does and why lots of people don't like it, I don't like it myself but I have learned to accept that the devs aren't going to do anything about it and most of these threads are started by the same people, last I heard, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is a definition of insanity but I'll settle for exceedingly silly.
I am fully aware of what APO does and why lots of people don't like it, I don't like it myself but I have learned to accept that the devs aren't going to do anything about it and most of these threads are started by the same people, last I heard, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is a definition of insanity but I'll settle for exceedingly silly.
You say it's insanity for me to keep bringing up something that I don't agree with. I think it's insanity for you to disagree with something and never say so.
You say it's insanity for me to keep bringing up something that I don't agree with. I think it's insanity for you to disagree with something and never say so.
I have stated my disagreement with the current state of APO, hell you quoted me in your post doing so, I've just come to a point of acceptance that nothing will be done about it.
You say it's insanity for me to keep bringing up something that I don't agree with. I think it's insanity for you to disagree with something and never say so.
Let me see if there is a dead horse on the zen store I can buy for you.
I have stated my disagreement with the current state of APO, hell you quoted me in your post doing so, I've just come to a point of acceptance that nothing will be done about it.
I have stated my disagreement with the current state of APO, hell you quoted me in your post doing so, I've just come to a point of acceptance that nothing will be done about it.
There are some things in the game that we all have that we dislike that we simply have to learn to live with. The overabundance of CC and how it ultimately makes it switch from OP to useless and there not being partial affects possible in the Cryptic engine is one of my pet peeves that I've had to accept. It actually relates to APO, if CC could have partial effects that would actually depend on the stats you spec into we wouldn't need the CC negating effects of APO, but we all know that anyone wanting to can get 200+ skill rating and more or less negate a ships ranked up defenses. My other pet peeve being limited customization, I just don't think its important to Cryptic at all, given that its not as lucrative as releasing new ship costumes as new ships. Lets not even talk about ground costumes and options.
So we end up where we are today, where just to survive a ship has to be able to get out of CC as a matter of course of die. At least now EPtE is another tool to escape CC, but its also another must have skil...:rolleyes:
I would see the argument being there for reducing the damage bonus on APO, but the way things stand it would be a huge nerf to escorts that already get outdps'd by A2B DEM cruisers. But at least cruiser pilots are happy, at least those that know how to build a ship.
How does it also provide +100 to inertia? and make you immune to pretty much everything? how does tacteam make you immune to something? how does hazards make you immune how does anything make you immune to anything? when your stuff is being adapted against, aren't you gonna just adapt and hit harder? this game is unbalanced and should take all immunities off, replace them with % chance to cleanse every second, maybe put a 100% proc on the activation, nerf tacteam, nerf sci team 5 sec, nerf eng team 5 sec, nerf a2d, nerf polarize hull, nerf nerf nerf nerf, search for balance and stop with the immunities.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Personally my only real issue with APO is the immunities it gives, I would be happy if that was cut down to 50% resistance to all movement debuffs and 50% disable time reduction, that way someone who specs into CC as 'their thing' it would be worth something against an APO bearing ship but someone who doesn't would get shrugged off like all CC does currently. Better yet have the resistance figure scale according to your attack patterns skill.
But ultimately I'm at the point where I really don't care if it happens or not.
This game has a load of disabling effects, you need to be able to counter that.
Also, OP wants a scientific explanation for an MMO ability? Ooooooh boy!
A: Its space magic. Same way engineering team suddenly makes your flaming hull return to pristine newness, it escapes a tractor beam hold.
B: You want realistic sci-fi? Than quit Star Trek, for it is Firefly that you seek. Apart from the girl with the magic brain, that's pretty realistic.
C: You need this for borg.
Every game /movie/tv show needs suspension of disbelief. Having to suspend common sense? That's a recipe for ho-hum, bored now, next. It's also an indicator of shoddy and sloppy writing.
Comments
Polarize hull works for tractor beams, nothing else, and in all the cases I said above, they tend to chain them on you, since space has no practical CC immunity or diminishing returns.
APO is a higher level power for one, so it should be doing more then polarize hull. Nothing worse then having a tier 1 ensign BOff power do the exact same thing as a Commander mk III BOff power. Secondly, with no diminishing returns on CC, in cases where you're actually tanking or facing multiple opponents, having multiple powers that allow you to break CC is almost a necessity in this game.
So here's the trade off, give CC powers diminishing returns, I mean real diminishing returns, and increase their cool downs across the board. Then make polarize hull work against every single type of CC out there, and lower its cool down. Then give every single ship more then two sci slots, so we can slot multiple copies of this power, then we'll talk about changing APO
Until then, all I see is someone who likes to chain CC their opponents in place, and can't because of polarize hull and APO, and when their CC doesnt' work gets spanked in PvP because they are one trick ponies and don't know how to adapt.
It also makes Cruisers and Sci ships durable, counters the lack of CC diminishing returns, and is at its base a LCDR power, meaning that you have to choose it over some of the other useful high level powers as well.
and I hate escorts, I never pilot them, don't use them, and I'll tell you straight out, as a cruiser and sci ship driver, that APO is not the reason. If you honestly think that, and aren't just trolling to make an argument, you need to go back and learn the game and learn how to play.
And like I said my main is a cruiser tank driver. Take away my APO, and you take away some of my own durability, which defeats your entire argument above.
Currently STO suffers from debuff bloat. There is no way to counter everything at once, if CC wasn't countered by a broad range of effects (EPtE, APO, PH, HE, etc) STO would instanly become the most boring game of "apply the CC first" you can imagine. How about you argue instead for cutting down on the number of CCs instead eh?
By the way, befoer anyone jumps up and starts defending CC as something integral to Trek take a look at Champions online, you'll find the CC effects are exactly the same, STO more or less inherited them from CO rather than have them custom built for space or ground combat.
Edit: Just as a little extra, if you're depending on CCs to do your damage for you you're not doing it right, that's why CCs have to do little damage, otherwise they become main attack powers.
but honestly it does simply too much at once...some of it's properties could be shifted to AP: delta, like the hold resist and the turnrate increase
i feel that ap: delta is the stepchild of the 3 attack patterns
Move the hold immunity to delta, remove the disable immunity from attack pattern omega, keep the teleport immunity, add a 3 second or so disable immunity to tact team. Improve the effect of polarize hull to include all holds.
It should keep all the other buff, it will continue to be a great attack pattern.
You're right, it is expensive. However, there are 5 other expensive abilities and APO counters 3 of them and greatly negates another. Only Aceton Beam isn't affected by APO and nobody uses that anyway.
Only a fool would rely on CC to kill, you're right. My issue is that APO counters too many things whilst also giving offensive and defensive buff. It really is 4 or 5 abilities wrapped in to one package.
yes, something like that would be agreeable.
I am fully aware of what APO does and why lots of people don't like it, I don't like it myself but I have learned to accept that the devs aren't going to do anything about it and most of these threads are started by the same people, last I heard, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is a definition of insanity but I'll settle for exceedingly silly.
You say it's insanity for me to keep bringing up something that I don't agree with. I think it's insanity for you to disagree with something and never say so.
I have stated my disagreement with the current state of APO, hell you quoted me in your post doing so, I've just come to a point of acceptance that nothing will be done about it.
Let me see if there is a dead horse on the zen store I can buy for you.
Fair call. I apologise.
If you find them you can buy me 10!!!
There are some things in the game that we all have that we dislike that we simply have to learn to live with. The overabundance of CC and how it ultimately makes it switch from OP to useless and there not being partial affects possible in the Cryptic engine is one of my pet peeves that I've had to accept. It actually relates to APO, if CC could have partial effects that would actually depend on the stats you spec into we wouldn't need the CC negating effects of APO, but we all know that anyone wanting to can get 200+ skill rating and more or less negate a ships ranked up defenses. My other pet peeve being limited customization, I just don't think its important to Cryptic at all, given that its not as lucrative as releasing new ship costumes as new ships. Lets not even talk about ground costumes and options.
So we end up where we are today, where just to survive a ship has to be able to get out of CC as a matter of course of die. At least now EPtE is another tool to escape CC, but its also another must have skil...:rolleyes:
I would see the argument being there for reducing the damage bonus on APO, but the way things stand it would be a huge nerf to escorts that already get outdps'd by A2B DEM cruisers. But at least cruiser pilots are happy, at least those that know how to build a ship.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Personally my only real issue with APO is the immunities it gives, I would be happy if that was cut down to 50% resistance to all movement debuffs and 50% disable time reduction, that way someone who specs into CC as 'their thing' it would be worth something against an APO bearing ship but someone who doesn't would get shrugged off like all CC does currently. Better yet have the resistance figure scale according to your attack patterns skill.
But ultimately I'm at the point where I really don't care if it happens or not.
Also, OP wants a scientific explanation for an MMO ability? Ooooooh boy!
A: Its space magic. Same way engineering team suddenly makes your flaming hull return to pristine newness, it escapes a tractor beam hold.
B: You want realistic sci-fi? Than quit Star Trek, for it is Firefly that you seek. Apart from the girl with the magic brain, that's pretty realistic.
C: You need this for borg.
Every game /movie/tv show needs suspension of disbelief. Having to suspend common sense? That's a recipe for ho-hum, bored now, next. It's also an indicator of shoddy and sloppy writing.