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Feds getting annother new ship...

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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Here, I'll do it.

    investment:
    How much do we have to pay an artist to make the models for a ship?
    How much do we have to pay a programmer to code the ships into the game?

    reward:
    how many people will actually buy it?

    It's not as simple as "will someone buy it?". It's a question of whether enough people will buy it to balance out the cost required to make it.

    LOL :DYou serious?!? :P

    If it was that easy we'd all be filthy rich.
    Try again. ;)


    iconians wrote: »
    You seem like you have a firmer grip on reality than most. You see it as a circular problem, just as I do. Cryptic doesn't create a lot of things for the KDF because there's no money in creating things for the KDF because they don't create a lot of things for the KDF because there's no money in the KDF because they don't create a lot of things... etc. etc., this is the circular logic that's really just been spinning in place for a while.

    It is a circular problem, a classic case of the so called "catch 22".

    The thing is - who is suposed to be the one to break this infinite cycle? It's Cryptic. Because it's their product, they're the ones selling.
    The KDF players/fans can't send checks on 500 $ to Cryptic studios for nothing all in good hopes that it might get something done. That would be insane.

    If Cryptic is really that much afraid to invest anything in the KDF, which would be very odd by any MMO standards, they should even consider a kickstarter approach. But this status quo that has been going on for quite a while doesn't do anyone any good - doesn't do the KDF good, isn't fair towards KDF players and doesn't do Cryptic's reputation as a game developer any good as well.

    They're the ones that need to break the cycle, because it's in their hands. Their customers don't have any logical means to do it even if they wanted to. The ball's in their court.

    P.S. Would everyone just stop hating on the Bortasqu'!!! :mad: Sheesh! It's my No.1 ship in game, absolute favourite - the best there is. It's not even half as bad as people make it sound.
    Also where did anyone say that the Bortasqu' didn't sell? Mr.Stahl said once some time ago that they lost some money on a KDF ship, he didn't specify which one.
    I see a quite a lot Bortases every time I log in, you want a candidate for losing money? Orion ships - I barely see any of them even though I have a fleet Corsair myself, heck they even gave one of them in the giveaway.
    HQroeLu.jpg
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    It is a circular problem, a classic case of the so called "catch 22".

    The thing is - who is suposed to be the one to break this infinite cycle? It's Cryptic. Because it's their product, they're the ones selling.

    I agree 100%, they have to be the ones to break the cycle. The ball is in their court, and I hope that when this T5 KDF ship arrives, it has enough sales to break the cycle.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    patrickngo wrote: »
    They'll need to show more understanding of what their market wants than they did with the Bort to do that...and of course, they'll have to bring it to market instead of delaying it yet again with flimsy excuses.

    The Bortasqu' argument aside, I do agree that constantly delaying its release only encourages this cycle. I also agree they need to be approach this release of a T5 KDF ship carefully, because this is going to be a litmus test for the market. Whether we want it to be or not, this is going to be another effort to gauge KDF interest and see if KDF sales will be profitable, rather than just being subsidized by the rest of the playerbase.

    Logically, the ship should have a broad appeal to as many players as possible, where a player of any career can get in it and love it. Whatever abilities it has should make it an extremely valuable asset to have on a team -- and I think the comm array dev blog is an indication of this viability.

    As I said, this is a cycle that can only be broken by both parties. Cryptic has to be the one to initiate it by providing a quality ship that players will want. The KDF playerbase has the job of either buying the damn thing in droves (I plan on purchasing one regardless of stats just to show my support), or... the other scenario is a bit more bleak.

    Which is to say, the KDF playerbase should accept that maybe the sales weren't all that great, should this T5 KDF ship flounder. This not a scenario I see happening, because I think the KDF playerbase will find various flaws in its release to justify poor sales, regardless of what really happens.

    This is just my opinion of course, but I can remain optimistic that when this ship is released it'll send a message to either us -- or Cryptic when the final beans are counted.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited October 2013
    Here I have to agree. Those who honestly do not think the KDF got anything since the free Bortas'qu (and corresponding 3-pack) are incorrect/mislead (or possibly don't count the Kamarag).
    Those arguing that the C-store is light on pickings for the KDF are, essentially, correct.

    The cycle of nothing to buy-> no money spent-> no investment in new ships-> nothing to buy can be broken in 1 of 2 ways.
    1 - Buy every KDF item in C-store we can (even if it eats the clumps from a targs' fur) so there is money in the pot for future investment. This is basically saying "Until we buy TRIBBLE, Cryptic won't give us decent".
    2 - Cryptic put out a stunning ship, bunch of costumes or some other thing the KDF have been begging for since year 0 so we, the players, have something decent to buy.

    Now, I can't speak for anyone but myself... I won't buy TRIBBLE. I will wait and buy good stuff and will continue waiting and saving (and grinding) until it comes along (K'Vort springs to mind). As I am intractable, the ball is in Cryptic's court. Pushing a Negh'Var (another battlecruiser?) back until "probably 2014" is not Cryptic breaking the cycle... not yet. Cryptic fixing KDF Marauder boffs so their uniform works and maybe making 1 (just 1, not asking for the world here) new KDF costume would go a long way to changing things.

    I'm the same way when it comes to ships. I don't buy TRIBBLE. I don't even buy battlecruisers (even the good ones) because I don't fly battlecruisers. What I DO buy are good raptors/destroyers and BoPs. I've bought the Fleet Norgh and Fleet Scourge, and will end up buying the Fleet Hoh'sus and Fleet B'rel and maybe the Fleet Somraw. I very rarely put my own money into this game, I get all my acquisitions via converting dilithium or buying Fleet modules off the Exchange for 6 mil EC apiece. This takes time and effort, so I don't buy TRIBBLE. A lot of players are like this, because this is a f2p game. If Cryptic wants to make money off ship sales, they have to give players what they actually want. The Bortas'qu doesn't really meet that requirement.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • zev92zev92 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    i vote the feds get kdf treatment for a few years and see how they feel. I would love to have a new tier 5 bop or raptor. Its bad how the give the feds everything they want.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    shpoks wrote: »

    P.S. Would everyone just stop hating on the Bortasqu'!!! :mad: Sheesh! It's my No.1 ship in game, absolute favourite - the best there is. It's not even half as bad as people make it sound.
    Also where did anyone say that the Bortasqu' didn't sell? Mr.Stahl said once some time ago that they lost some money on a KDF ship, he didn't specify which one.
    I see a quite a lot Bortases every time I log in, you want a candidate for losing money? Orion ships - I barely see any of them even though I have a fleet Corsair myself, heck they even gave one of them in the giveaway.

    I'm sick of the Bortasqu bashing too, its not for everyone but its great. People bashing it just aren't skilled enough to handle big ships. I can do 20-25k+ dps with beams in STFs depending on the group, without using an a2b build. Its the only battlecruiser that has the boff layout I need because of the universals. Even when I use DHC on it I prefer the Bortasqu over the fleet torhkat, because of the better boff layout and 5th tac console, and I can manage the turn anyway.

    Maybe the initial sales weren't as much as they hoped for, but by now I'm sure it sold enough to make the money spent on it back and more. I see it a lot more then those orion ships you mentioned too.

    Perhaps we need to get a all bortasqu team together and do videos of STFs so all the people bashing it can really see what this ship can do in the right hands.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • bronzephantombronzephantom Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    How about we take our complaints into the game, invade the pvp zones with the glorious fleets of the Empire "Fight with passion and earn your place in the halls of Sto'vo'kor, By the blood of Kahless it will be GLORIOUS!!!" Then we let human nature take it's course and then the feds will complain to Cryptic/PW for us.
  • silverashes1silverashes1 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    tksmitty wrote: »
    People that say "KDF players should just buy more Z-Store stuff" must not be KDF players. I have bought all the T5 KDF ships and most of the lower tier ships for consoles and skins.

    It's really hard to spend the money to support your favorite faction when there is nothing to spend your money on.

    ditto i have literaly baught every kdf c-store content there is there is nothing left to buy
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So, with the Feds getting another KDF thing, the "Battlecruiser" style of cruiser stats, to include even a damn cloak, exactly WHEN is the KDF getting a more fleshed out ship lineup?

    Where are more Science Vessels?

    When are the Raptors and BOPs getting a revamp?

    The Feds already can access Universal BOFF stations without paying for anything like the KDF BOPs do. They have a Carrier now. They will soon have Battlecruisers.

    Their ship lineup is all encompassing, while the KDF is still neglected on ample coverage of specialties with its ships.
    XzRTofz.gif
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  • oakland4lifeoakland4life Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Here's the Pics and stats of this new Fed Battle Cruiser

    http://imgur.com/a/8S6mC#0

    Fleet Battle Cruiser

    - Base Stats -
    Fore Weapon Slots: 5
    Aft Weapon Slots: 3

    Hull: 41250
    Shield Mod: 1.21

    Crew: 700
    Turn Rate: 9
    Device Slots: 3

    +10 Bonus Weapon Power
    +10 Bonus Engine Power

    Can use Dual Cannons / Dual Heavy Cannons
    Can use a Cloaking Device

    - Consoles -
    ENG: 4
    TAC: 4
    SCI: 2

    - Boff Stations -
    TAC - Ensign
    TAC - Lt Com
    ENG - Com
    SCI - Lt
    UNI - Lt

    Note: it will be this first Cruiser in the game to use the Cruiser Com Array to give buff's to itself and to other players, other Cruisers will not have it for awhile afterwards... that includes KDF Cruisers.
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Really? I mean, really?

    This is the Neghvar the KDF should have gotten...
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited October 2013
    Here's the Pics and stats of this new Fed Battle Cruiser

    http://imgur.com/a/8S6mC#0

    Fleet Battle Cruiser

    - Base Stats -
    Fore Weapon Slots: 5
    Aft Weapon Slots: 3

    Hull: 41250
    Shield Mod: 1.21

    Crew: 700
    Turn Rate: 9
    Device Slots: 3

    +10 Bonus Weapon Power
    +10 Bonus Engine Power

    Can use Dual Cannons / Dual Heavy Cannons
    Can use a Cloaking Device

    - Consoles -
    ENG: 4
    TAC: 4
    SCI: 2

    - Boff Stations -
    TAC - Ensign
    TAC - Lt Com
    ENG - Com
    SCI - Lt
    UNI - Lt

    Note: it will be this first Cruiser in the game to use the Cruiser Com Array to give buff's to itself and to other players, other Cruisers will not have it for awhile afterwards... that includes KDF Cruisers.

    This thing is basically a variant of the Fleet Tor'kaht.

    Here's the Fleet Tor'kaht stats:

    Fore Weapon Slots: 4
    Aft Weapon Slots: 4

    Hull: 39,600
    Shield Mod: 1.1

    Crew: 1,500
    Turn Rate: 10
    Device Slots: 3

    +10 bonus Weapon Power
    +10 bonus Engine Power

    Can use Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons
    Built-in Cloaking Device

    Consoles:

    ENG: 4
    TAC: 4
    SCI: 2

    Boff Stations:
    TAC - Lieutenant
    TAC: Lieutenant Commander
    ENG: Commander
    ENG: Ensign
    UNI: Lieutenant

    In short, this new battlecruiser is slightly less maneuverable, hits harder (due to 5 fore weapons), is slightly tankier (due to higher shield mod and slightly more hull), and has to sacrifice a console slot to use its cloak. Also, you have to possess a Defiant or Dreadnought that provides a cloaking console, as it probably won't come with its own (Fleet Defiant doesnt, for example). I would say its boff layout is a little inferior, all that tactical ensign is good for is Tactical Team 1 or maybe a spare low-level torpedo skill.

    My biggest issue with this thing is the 5-3 weapon layout and the fact that the ******n Federation is now getting a battlecruiser that's entirely competitive with a KDF battlecruiser. . .in this case, the Fleet Tor'kaht. That's another exclusive the KDF has lost, thank you very much. All we friggin had left was the Aceton Assimilators, BoP flexibility, and battlecruisers. Now the Federation gets its very own Fleet Tor'kaht. Thanks, Cryptic.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    Now the Federation gets its very own Fleet Tor'kaht. Thanks, Cryptic.

    Not just fleet either - also a regular c-store version. Enter another FSM discount and ease of acquisition.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    How about we take our complaints into the game, invade the pvp zones with the glorious fleets of the Empire "Fight with passion and earn your place in the halls of Sto'vo'kor, By the blood of Kahless it will be GLORIOUS!!!" Then we let human nature take it's course and then the feds will complain to Cryptic/PW for us.

    And then Cryptic will give them an even more bada$$ ship than the Avenger! :P:D:P:D
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The annoying thing is the new fed fleet battle cruiser is a tier 4 shipyard ship, you just know there are gonna be a ton of them flying about day 1! My fleet torhkie will be waiting!
  • oakland4lifeoakland4life Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    z3ndor99 wrote: »
    The annoying thing is the new fed fleet battle cruiser is a tier 4 shipyard ship, you just know there are gonna be a ton of them flying about day 1! My fleet torhkie will be waiting!

    Ur Fleet Torhkie may not be a match in Day 1, since the Avengers will be the only Cruiser for awhile with the Cruiser Com Array with its Team Buff's, so while the Feds will have their Team Buff's in PvP, we the KDF will not have such a thing for 1-2 months.
  • sechserpackungsechserpackung Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Well.

    What can I say:

    "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

    Just that with this being a "gib us monyz" it has to be better than what came before.


    Also considering the ammount of new ship designs starfleet seems to be pushing out they are losing this war (of which we see nothing) pretty damn hard against the KDF.
    At least that would explain why we don?t have a lot about it generally speaking. Can?t have the feds look bad and all that ^.^ .
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Here's the Pics and stats of this new Fed Battle Cruiser

    http://imgur.com/a/8S6mC#0

    Fleet Battle Cruiser

    - Base Stats -
    Fore Weapon Slots: 5
    Aft Weapon Slots: 3

    Hull: 41250
    Shield Mod: 1.21

    Crew: 700
    Turn Rate: 9
    Device Slots: 3

    +10 Bonus Weapon Power
    +10 Bonus Engine Power

    Can use Dual Cannons / Dual Heavy Cannons
    Can use a Cloaking Device

    - Consoles -
    ENG: 4
    TAC: 4
    SCI: 2

    - Boff Stations -
    TAC - Ensign
    TAC - Lt Com
    ENG - Com
    SCI - Lt
    UNI - Lt

    Note: it will be this first Cruiser in the game to use the Cruiser Com Array to give buff's to itself and to other players, other Cruisers will not have it for awhile afterwards... that includes KDF Cruisers.


    Better if A2B builds are your focus.
    LTC tt crf apo
    ENS bo
    CMD epts rsp a2b dem
    ULT epte a2b
    LT tb he
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited October 2013
    We Feds finaly get a decent cruiser

    Bravo cryptic
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • oakland4lifeoakland4life Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Well.

    What can I say:

    "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

    Just that with this being a "gib us monyz" it has to be better than what came before.


    Also considering the ammount of new ship designs starfleet seems to be pushing out they are losing this war (of which we see nothing) pretty damn hard against the KDF.
    At least that would explain why we don?t have a lot about it generally speaking. Can?t have the feds look bad and all that ^.^ .

    The Feds not only look bad but they're terrible in PvP, Fed players claiming they're winning the war yet they getting killed in PvP in droves. so Cryptic makes them new more powerful Toys while Cryptic once again neglected the KDF devolopment because of it.

    Back in the early days i used to respect Fed players in PvP, and defend the dev's actions.

    but now alot of PvP Fed players are becoming more arrogant & desrespectful while the Dev's is no doubt ignoring the KDF totally with a very few exception with a bone thrown a few times that is mostly NOT end game unique KDF content. since the game is in a better state than it was under Atari, with more money and more people to work on STO, they're still resort on their old practices... old habits die hard i guess.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    jellico1 wrote: »
    We Feds finaly get a decent cruiser

    Bravo cryptic

    You've had decent cruisers all this time, you've merely not been using them correctly.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Haven't you guys figured it out yet?

    the kdf is the enemy of the feds

    Now we all know the feds get everything and the kdf get more shafts than a north sea oil field

    why?

    simple really - the kdf are underdeveloped to provide instant gratification to the fed players

    The only reason we have a semblence of balance is as they need players to play kdf to give the fed pvp whales something to shoot and gain gratification - its in the intrests of the game to keep the kdf as it is as the feds pay money to basically have the instant gratification of destroying an enemy player via the latest and greatest gear

    The Romulans were fed orientated from the start, offering everything a fed wanted and none of the balanced drawback the kdf surffered

    On the other hand, we have the die hard kdf players who either want to tryto prove their skills via a 'handicap' or ones that just don't care about being destroyed (and of course the kdf roms, who like the kdf but 'go where the money is' sotospeak)

    Simply put - the weaker the kdf is, the more gratification is translated to sales via the feds - but its a balancing act to maintain a kdf population of targets - thus expect some bones to be thrown, but don't expect anything close to fed/fedrom balance
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    jellico1 wrote: »
    We Feds finaly get a decent cruiser

    Bravo cryptic

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32UGD0fV45g :rolleyes:
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    As a principally FED player (4 FEDs 1 FED allied rom, 1 KDF allied reman and a kdf tac) I actually see an issue.. Kumari line with 5 fore weapons (fed advantage) then Scimitar (Romulan- kdf/fed allied but still not just kdf advantage) Now another FED ship with 5 fore weapons but none for the KDF who's aggressive nature would dictate this "technology" be a priority.. much less being fair to players... (I would likely never aquire such a ship but still in fairness KDF should get a similar option)
  • sechserpackungsechserpackung Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Feds not only look bad but they're terrible in PvP, Fed players claiming they're winning the war yet they getting killed in PvP in droves. so Cryptic makes them new more powerful Toys while Cryptic once again neglected the KDF devolopment because of it.

    Back in the early days i used to respect Fed players in PvP, and defend the dev's actions.

    but now alot of PvP Fed players are becoming more arrogant & desrespectful while the Dev's is no doubt ignoring the KDF totally with a very few exception with a bone thrown a few times that is mostly NOT end game unique KDF content. since the game is in a better state than it was under Atari, with more money and more people to work on STO, they're still resort on their old practices... old habits die hard i guess.


    Well, it would be nice if they could switch the news channel from time to time as a start.

    It?s boring having to hear the Federations War Ministry Propaganda Channel with Ferengi Adverts for multiple years straight.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    kintisho wrote: »
    As a principally FED player (4 FEDs 1 FED allied rom, 1 KDF allied reman and a kdf tac) I actually see an issue.. Kumari line with 5 fore weapons (fed advantage) then Scimitar (Romulan- kdf/fed allied but still not just kdf advantage) Now another FED ship with 5 fore weapons but none for the KDF who's aggressive nature would dictate this "technology" be a priority.. much less being fair to players... (I would likely never aquire such a ship but still in fairness KDF should get a similar option)

    I know right. The Kumari being from the Andorians, a normally militant species already I can understand (bought the three-pack). The Scimitar again, I can go with, and it's even canon (also bought the three-pack).

    But this? I will probably be buying it (it's basically the D'kora without the fancy console and with better base stats), but from STARFLEET of all places? I mean, seriously? And yet the Klingons have yet to get anything at all like this despite being the most obvious to try and sell one to?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    If only I could put an iconic Fed cruiser look on it like the Galaxy/Sovereign or something.
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