You just replied to Taco that you knew it from the earlier thread (link provided by Taco), now you're telling me you didn't know it?
You can't have it both ways.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
while i know it wouldn't make much sense for it to be the same sphere, due to the star dying, it just seems incredibly unlikely that there would be 2 spheres in the same galaxy. i would think there would be many ways that the existing sphere could be utilized as a space adventure zone, even with the threat of radiation on the inside. and really, if they couldn't find a way to make it work, they should have just scrapped the idea and thought of something else. and when i say that, i don't mean making up something else, i mean finding another cannon location to add to the game.
this is just one more symptom of the main problem with this game, which is lack of immersion in the star trek universe. all the time that is spent developing big expansions like this is really just desperate attempts to bring in more fans. and more fans do come because of it, but they soon leave when they realize that it still doesn't feel like star trek. i really wish the developers would just focus on exploiting their strengths to improve the game, rather than hoping to get lucky with their weaknesses. they're game developers, not tv writers. it would be far more beneficial for the game as a whole if they would just put some real effort into converting star trek into their game, not trying to write star trek with their game.
while i know it wouldn't make much sense for it to be the same sphere, due to the star dying, it just seems incredibly unlikely that there would be 2 spheres in the same galaxy. i would think there would be many ways that the existing sphere could be utilized as a space adventure zone, even with the threat of radiation on the inside. and really, if they couldn't find a way to make it work, they should have just scrapped the idea and thought of something else. and when i say that, i don't mean making up something else, i mean finding another cannon location to add to the game.
this is just one more symptom of the main problem with this game, which is lack of immersion in the star trek universe. all the time that is spent developing big expansions like this is really just desperate attempts to bring in more fans. and more fans do come because of it, but they soon leave when they realize that it still doesn't feel like star trek. i really wish the developers would just focus on exploiting their strengths to improve the game, rather than hoping to get lucky with their weaknesses. they're game developers, not tv writers. it would be far more beneficial for the game as a whole if they would just put some real effort into converting star trek into their game, not trying to write star trek with their game.
while i know it wouldn't make much sense for it to be the same sphere, due to the star dying, it just seems incredibly unlikely that there would be 2 spheres in the same galaxy.
This statement makes no sense at all. If there's a Dyson Sphere, which has been abandoned due to a bad star, it's highly likely that the culture which made it would move on and make another Dyson Sphere to live within. If they're technologically advanced enough to make a Dyson Sphere they have no interest in living on a planet, thus they would make other Dyson Spheres as they moved around the galaxy - and as their populations expanded beyond the means of a single Sphere.
The rest of your post is you just ranting about the game not being the type of game you want, and those points are meaningless as everyone wants something different, so no reason to address them.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
while i know it wouldn't make much sense for it to be the same sphere, due to the star dying, it just seems incredibly unlikely that there would be 2 spheres in the same galaxy.
Do you have a clear concept of how large a galaxy is?
Just look at the inset: That inset covers all of the major alpha/beta quadrant races seen in the shows in a circle 1500 ly accross, and the ones represented in STO almost all fit inside of the 1000 ly circle (and the actual space represented in STO even smaller).
A cylinder 1000 ly across and passing through the entire galactic disk is 0.000025% of the entire galaxy (using the smallest estimate for the size of the milky way, 100,000 ly - the most accepted size is 15,000 ly, which would be 2.25 times larger in volume, making this slice 0.000011% of the galaxy), and approximately 7.5 million stars. In all that space, we know of one Dyson Sphere. If that is an average frequency (one in 7.5 million stars), there would be 40000 more in the galaxy. Even if it's very unlikely to find one in 7.5 million stars, there could still be hundreds more in the galaxy.
Even if they are so rare that there is only a one in ten thousand chance of finding one in local space (meaning 1 in 75 billion stars), there would still be an average of one per quadrant - and with the closest one being just over the line into the Delta Quadrant, that could fit such a frequency.
This statement makes no sense at all. If there's a Dyson Sphere, which has been abandoned due to a bad star, it's highly likely that the culture which made it would move on and make another Dyson Sphere to live within. If they're technologically advanced enough to make a Dyson Sphere they have no interest in living on a planet, thus they would make other Dyson Spheres as they moved around the galaxy - and as their populations expanded beyond the means of a single Sphere.
The rest of your post is you just ranting about the game not being the type of game you want, and those points are meaningless as everyone wants something different, so no reason to address them.
Should we give up requesting anything unless we all agree on it? :rolleyes:
while i know it wouldn't make much sense for it to be the same sphere, due to the star dying, it just seems incredibly unlikely that there would be 2 spheres in the same galaxy.
A smart civilization would build a sphere around a Red Dwarf and not a main sequence star like the Jenolan Sphere because a Red Dwarf will remain stable for anywhere between 2 to 10 trillion years (a G-type star lasts for about 10 billion years). Red Dwarfs are the old and slow stars that they might be some of the last stars to be active when the universe gives out.
If I was a xenoarchaeologist I would be hunting for red dwarfs because if another civilization wanted to leave something behind that would last that is where it would be.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Should we give up requesting anything unless we all agree on it? :rolleyes:
He wasn't asking for anything in that second paragraph. He was ranting about his perceived a lack of immersion - and subjective opinions are different for everyone and somewhat pointless to argue about as there's no right or wrong to a subjective opinion.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
He wasn't asking for anything in that second paragraph. He was ranting about he perceived a lack of immersion - and subjective opinions are different for everyone.
the sphere probably took many thousands of people many thousands of years to build. and in the end, i would wonder if they even thought it was worth it. even if there are a large number of warp capable races in this galaxy, only a miniscule percentage of them would be advanced to the point of being able to build a sphere. and only a small percentage of those would actually decide to do it.
my guess would be something like one sphere in every thousand or more galaxies. but of course, i'm not sitting here with a calculator thinking of probabilities. this is just random guesswork, and i could be right just as easily as someone that says every race would create a sphere if they lived long enough.
and also, the origin of this thread is someone saying that the game is not the way they think it should be, so i see no problem with citing this subject as another result of a more universal problem, and saying that a change in the fundamental concept of the developers efforts would ripple down into better results with the individual additions.
the sphere probably took many thousands of people many thousands of years to build. and in the end, i would wonder if they even thought it was worth it. even if there are a large number of warp capable races in this galaxy, only a miniscule percentage of them would be advanced to the point of being able to build a sphere. and only a small percentage of those would actually decide to do it.
You're clearly over-thinking this. Nothing in Trek gets that much thought. For example, the Iconians were destroyed 200,000 years ago. The T'kon Empire existed over 600,000 years ago. Either of those races could possibly have built dozens of Dyson Spheres - as could the progenitor race responsible for all humanoid life. Very little of our Galaxy is even explored by this timeline.
And as I said at the beginning of this thread, the Ent D would have flown right past the Dyson Sphere without even noticing it if it wasn't for the distress call from the Jenolan. Who knows how many spheres have been flown past.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
the sphere probably took many thousands of people many thousands of years to build. and in the end, i would wonder if they even thought it was worth it. even if there are a large number of warp capable races in this galaxy, only a miniscule percentage of them would be advanced to the point of being able to build a sphere. and only a small percentage of those would actually decide to do it.
my guess would be something like one sphere in every thousand or more galaxies. but of course, i'm not sitting here with a calculator thinking of probabilities. this is just random guesswork, and i could be right just as easily as someone that says every race would create a sphere if they lived long enough.
I don't think this even rises to the level of guesswork. You're trying to assign numbers to a half-dozen variables, none of which you have any way to even estimate, and then combine them to come up with a number. It's an exercise in blind-folded dart-throwing. The only thing that is certain is that two Dyson spheres is no more unreasonable than one.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The T'kon and Iconians are also recent, despite dating from eras when humans were lucky to be making fire or standing upright. The Voth (who currently occupy and possibly constructed this particular sphere) have two million years of recorded history, and existed for at least 65 million years. The rise and fall of the Iconians is a footnote in their history books. And the Voth are an even smaller footnote to races like the Preservers or Q, who were active billions of years ago.
Star Trek uses some logic (not completely valid logic, but this is one of the most basic conceits of the setting) that nearly all habitable worlds develop life, nearly all lifebearing planets produce civilizations, nearly all civilizations eventually become warp capable, and nearly all warp capable civilizations eventually fall by some means internal or external. This creates a galaxy not just vibrant with advanced life, but like Rome standing on top of ruins upon ruins upon ruins of those that were there before fading back into the earliest days of the universe. A world of where wonders both new and old, natural and artificial, are commonplace.
A galaxy built on this conceit almost can't contain less than dozens, if not hundreds of such wonders.
Something to remember about Dyson Sphere/Shell/thingys is that the surface area on the interior of the construct is equivalent to a trillion or more Earths. This is enough room that if you dropped all the world's nearly 8 billion people equal distances apart across the entire interior it would take years before anyone saw another person. This kind of living space borders on the obscene. A single sphere could comfortably house a quadrillion humans and provide them with enough per capita energy to enjoy a really comfortable, worry free life style. Never mind that any people capable of building one of these constructs is never going to need to fear an invader or hostile visitor, they could simply vaporize them with a laser powered by the star they built around such a weapon/tool could vaporize pretty much anything smaller than a planet in a single shot.
Not only is it not the Dyson Sphere from Relics, it doesn't even look even remotely like the Dyson Sphere from Relics. I'm, really disappointed about this. This may sound really stupid, but if it's not connected to the Dyson Sphere from Relics, why are you putting in a Dyson Sphere at all? One of the major complaints about this game is that it doesn't feel like Star Trek, and this is one of the big reasons why!
When you have opportunities to include things from canon Trek,
You. Don't. Do it!!!!! Why???
First of all, the Dyson sphere from Relics was abandoned because the contained star started to give off lethal radiation.
Second of all, and IMO more important, how is it not Star Trek if it doesn't feature a specific thing from one of the series? There is more to Star Trek's fictional universe than what was shown. It makes no sense to just stick to that. And besides, the Relics Dyson sphere was mentioned in the dev blog. There's even mention of a TNG character too. As if it had to be a reference, and that non-show characters have no place in being mentioned for anything important.
If anything, there is too much of what was shown in the series implemented in STO. STO treats Archer's, Kirk's, and Picard's Enterprises, the USS Defiant, and the USS Voyager as the only Fed ships that done any important stuff. It's like no other ships were in the history books. On top of that, there are ship classes that got named from ships that merely showed up on one of the series, not even doing anything important. Somraw, anyone?
If only the show/movie elements are mentioned, the fiction won't grow much. If the show/movie elements are kept to a minimum, we'll have plenty of new Trek things to explore, and new stuff to find out about the Trek universe.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I don't think this even rises to the level of guesswork. You're trying to assign numbers to a half-dozen variables, none of which you have any way to even estimate, and then combine them to come up with a number. It's an exercise in blind-folded dart-throwing. The only thing that is certain is that two Dyson spheres is no more unreasonable than one.
well said, i do not disagree. i just feel that spheres would be extremely rare.
You're clearly over-thinking this. Nothing in Trek gets that much thought.
perhaps i am over thinking some of this, but that's because someone else isn't thinking about it enough. what's needed is an official nagging voice in the developers ears, telling them how to make star trek. it's like having a science adviser on the show to make the science sound believable, or the air force adviser in stargate. they don't have to stick to only what's known, but they need to fit new ideas in within the context of what they're expanding on. basically what the game needs is michael and denise okuda's involvement. then it would be star trek. they oversaw the design and construction of the star trek experience in vegas, and when you walked into that place, you felt like you got beamed aboard the enterprise, literally. they also were part of star trek infinite space, and that game was looking really good.
In regards to statements "the likelihood of two spheres existing in the galaxy is absurd" and such, remember that STO grabs a lot of its material from books.
In the Q Continuum trilogy, Q takes Picard on a trip through time and space to explain the villain of the book. It is shown that the Dyson Spheres (of which there are two) were built by the T'Kon empire. Their own star was dying, so they built the spheres in order to do the impossible: To transport one star from another solar system and replace their own.
Now, it doesn't explain the landmasses on the inside of the sphere, but it does mention two spheres build by the T'Kon. Who would have been advanced enough of a civilization to build them.
they also were part of star trek infinite space, and that game was looking really good.
I am probably the only person on this forum who played ST:IS 3 times at 3 different Cons it was at - I even have a few posts about it on the forum. Trust me, it wasn't looking good. It was a very common browser-based top-down shooter.
I get that you want what you want, but what you want isn't what I want, thus the concept of subjectivity. There's a lot more Trek in this game then what you want to give it credit for - probably because you can't get past your own emotional disappointment that this game isn't what you wanted from a Trek game.
Having the Relics Sphere being the home of the Voth makes no sense, thus it shouldn't be used that way in this game. The sun in the Relics' Sphere is dying and is in either the Alpha or Beta Quadrant - I don't remember, but I'm betting Alpha. The Voth live in the Delta Quadrant. It would make no canon sense to use that Sphere within the story being told. Thus it's more canon to make a new Sphere. I don't need to pay the Okuda's $100,000 to know that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
For all we know, the Dyson Spheres were created by the Sphere Builders as 'refuges' for those races that worshiped them (there were a couple of those in Enteprise).
Yeah, I know there's the thing that the Jenolan Sphere is something like ten thousand years old and the gravimetric spheres from the Delphic Expanse were only one or two thousand, so it doesn't exactly fit. It's just an idea...
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I think some people simply forget just how big a galaxy is. Hell, in Star Trek, explored space only covers a tiny, itty bitty part of the Milky Way. This isn't Star Wars where you can cruise between Coruscant and Tatooine in just a few hours, after all. And regardless of what Enterprise claims, it is not 4 days to Qo'noS.
Even if Dyson spheres are incredibly rare, there's billions upon billions of stars in the galaxy which would make the numbers of their occurrence in the galaxy to be at the very least in the hundreds.
I am personally excited to see the new dyson sphere. Cryptic always does a great job in creating new maps. Can not wait for Season 8 to drop and the new featured episode as well!
Comments
You just replied to Taco that you knew it from the earlier thread (link provided by Taco), now you're telling me you didn't know it?
You can't have it both ways.
I'm not sure you're reading what I'm saying.
this is just one more symptom of the main problem with this game, which is lack of immersion in the star trek universe. all the time that is spent developing big expansions like this is really just desperate attempts to bring in more fans. and more fans do come because of it, but they soon leave when they realize that it still doesn't feel like star trek. i really wish the developers would just focus on exploiting their strengths to improve the game, rather than hoping to get lucky with their weaknesses. they're game developers, not tv writers. it would be far more beneficial for the game as a whole if they would just put some real effort into converting star trek into their game, not trying to write star trek with their game.
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Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
Or they could just do what is easy
owned, lol
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The rest of your post is you just ranting about the game not being the type of game you want, and those points are meaningless as everyone wants something different, so no reason to address them.
Do you have a clear concept of how large a galaxy is?
I'll start with this map:
http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/star-trek-map.jpeg
Just look at the inset: That inset covers all of the major alpha/beta quadrant races seen in the shows in a circle 1500 ly accross, and the ones represented in STO almost all fit inside of the 1000 ly circle (and the actual space represented in STO even smaller).
A cylinder 1000 ly across and passing through the entire galactic disk is 0.000025% of the entire galaxy (using the smallest estimate for the size of the milky way, 100,000 ly - the most accepted size is 15,000 ly, which would be 2.25 times larger in volume, making this slice 0.000011% of the galaxy), and approximately 7.5 million stars. In all that space, we know of one Dyson Sphere. If that is an average frequency (one in 7.5 million stars), there would be 40000 more in the galaxy. Even if it's very unlikely to find one in 7.5 million stars, there could still be hundreds more in the galaxy.
Even if they are so rare that there is only a one in ten thousand chance of finding one in local space (meaning 1 in 75 billion stars), there would still be an average of one per quadrant - and with the closest one being just over the line into the Delta Quadrant, that could fit such a frequency.
Should we give up requesting anything unless we all agree on it? :rolleyes:
If I was a xenoarchaeologist I would be hunting for red dwarfs because if another civilization wanted to leave something behind that would last that is where it would be.
Fair enough.
my guess would be something like one sphere in every thousand or more galaxies. but of course, i'm not sitting here with a calculator thinking of probabilities. this is just random guesswork, and i could be right just as easily as someone that says every race would create a sphere if they lived long enough.
and also, the origin of this thread is someone saying that the game is not the way they think it should be, so i see no problem with citing this subject as another result of a more universal problem, and saying that a change in the fundamental concept of the developers efforts would ripple down into better results with the individual additions.
__________________
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
And as I said at the beginning of this thread, the Ent D would have flown right past the Dyson Sphere without even noticing it if it wasn't for the distress call from the Jenolan. Who knows how many spheres have been flown past.
I don't think this even rises to the level of guesswork. You're trying to assign numbers to a half-dozen variables, none of which you have any way to even estimate, and then combine them to come up with a number. It's an exercise in blind-folded dart-throwing. The only thing that is certain is that two Dyson spheres is no more unreasonable than one.
Star Trek uses some logic (not completely valid logic, but this is one of the most basic conceits of the setting) that nearly all habitable worlds develop life, nearly all lifebearing planets produce civilizations, nearly all civilizations eventually become warp capable, and nearly all warp capable civilizations eventually fall by some means internal or external. This creates a galaxy not just vibrant with advanced life, but like Rome standing on top of ruins upon ruins upon ruins of those that were there before fading back into the earliest days of the universe. A world of where wonders both new and old, natural and artificial, are commonplace.
A galaxy built on this conceit almost can't contain less than dozens, if not hundreds of such wonders.
Second of all, and IMO more important, how is it not Star Trek if it doesn't feature a specific thing from one of the series? There is more to Star Trek's fictional universe than what was shown. It makes no sense to just stick to that. And besides, the Relics Dyson sphere was mentioned in the dev blog. There's even mention of a TNG character too. As if it had to be a reference, and that non-show characters have no place in being mentioned for anything important.
If anything, there is too much of what was shown in the series implemented in STO. STO treats Archer's, Kirk's, and Picard's Enterprises, the USS Defiant, and the USS Voyager as the only Fed ships that done any important stuff. It's like no other ships were in the history books. On top of that, there are ship classes that got named from ships that merely showed up on one of the series, not even doing anything important. Somraw, anyone?
If only the show/movie elements are mentioned, the fiction won't grow much. If the show/movie elements are kept to a minimum, we'll have plenty of new Trek things to explore, and new stuff to find out about the Trek universe.
tl;dr - I respectfully disagree.
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At least we know where the dark matter is.
well said, i do not disagree. i just feel that spheres would be extremely rare.
perhaps i am over thinking some of this, but that's because someone else isn't thinking about it enough. what's needed is an official nagging voice in the developers ears, telling them how to make star trek. it's like having a science adviser on the show to make the science sound believable, or the air force adviser in stargate. they don't have to stick to only what's known, but they need to fit new ideas in within the context of what they're expanding on. basically what the game needs is michael and denise okuda's involvement. then it would be star trek. they oversaw the design and construction of the star trek experience in vegas, and when you walked into that place, you felt like you got beamed aboard the enterprise, literally. they also were part of star trek infinite space, and that game was looking really good.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
In the Q Continuum trilogy, Q takes Picard on a trip through time and space to explain the villain of the book. It is shown that the Dyson Spheres (of which there are two) were built by the T'Kon empire. Their own star was dying, so they built the spheres in order to do the impossible: To transport one star from another solar system and replace their own.
Now, it doesn't explain the landmasses on the inside of the sphere, but it does mention two spheres build by the T'Kon. Who would have been advanced enough of a civilization to build them.
I get that you want what you want, but what you want isn't what I want, thus the concept of subjectivity. There's a lot more Trek in this game then what you want to give it credit for - probably because you can't get past your own emotional disappointment that this game isn't what you wanted from a Trek game.
Having the Relics Sphere being the home of the Voth makes no sense, thus it shouldn't be used that way in this game. The sun in the Relics' Sphere is dying and is in either the Alpha or Beta Quadrant - I don't remember, but I'm betting Alpha. The Voth live in the Delta Quadrant. It would make no canon sense to use that Sphere within the story being told. Thus it's more canon to make a new Sphere. I don't need to pay the Okuda's $100,000 to know that.
Accusing a Trekkie of over thinking things? Imagine that... :rolleyes:
Yeah, I know there's the thing that the Jenolan Sphere is something like ten thousand years old and the gravimetric spheres from the Delphic Expanse were only one or two thousand, so it doesn't exactly fit. It's just an idea...
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
My character Tsin'xing
Even if Dyson spheres are incredibly rare, there's billions upon billions of stars in the galaxy which would make the numbers of their occurrence in the galaxy to be at the very least in the hundreds.
Yeah, I have no qualms with this new sphere, bring it on.
As for Jar Jar, what I want to know is why nobody has ever brought him to justice for the fall of the Republic and helping Palpatine rise to power.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
I know.