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Aegis and Assimilated Sets: The Red-headed Step Children of End Game Gear

hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
There have been comments recently involving the Aegis and Assimilated sets and their role in the end-game, esp here in this sub-forum. So I decided to start a thread and ask this simple question:

How do you guys see these two sets in comparison to the other end-game sets, and why do you see them that way? Do they need a buff? Or are they fine as is?

I'll start with my personal opinion.

In regards to the Aegis set, I always saw it as more of a transition set than an end-game set. It's got fun set bonuses, and decent procs, but overall, I never saw it as more than something to use until you got the Omega rep sets. And tbh, the reason it's so weak is because it equates to a mk IX set. I don't think it was ever intended to be used as end-game gear, or if it was, I don't think it was meant to be staple set.

In regards to the Assimilated set, it's amazing. Period. The engine is wonderful (+5 power to the SS, turn rate equal to the MACO/Adapted KHG, boosted speed in sector space, you can't go wrong), the Deflector is useful if not good (boosted SIF, boosted PI, boosted GG), and the shield... ok, I was wrong, it's not amazing period.

Sufficed to say, my only gripe with the Assimilated set are that the deflector is somewhat less amazing than the KHG and MACO deflectors, but still manageable (not going to touch Omega, that seems to be another set that could use a re-work), and that the shield is lackluster. And I mean REALLY lackluster. I believe that recently Virusdancer did some math comparing the Omega rep shields to their mk XII purple variants, and he found that the Assimilated shield was the least bolstered of the 4 sets, and in fact downright weak in comparison.

Granted I will still continue to use my Assimilated set, since it is still very much viable, but it could still use a little boost (if nothing else give it a [cap] mod, or something).

Anywho, thoughts?
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Post edited by hereticknight085 on
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Comments

  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The aegis has no place in sto anymore. Estfs are easy, and fleet gear is superior and easier to get.

    Aegis is for Tron fans, get it for the visuals.

    The borg set without the procs is sub par, but the procs....just fantastic. Whenever you swap from 3p Borg to anything else, you immediately miss those procs. I have all space sets and nothing comes close to those outrageous sublime shield/hull heals.

    The tractor beam is of "meh" value. Should have a 1 minute cd or less to gain wow factor
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  • taschenbillard12taschenbillard12 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    on top the 2piece bonus from the borg set seems to heal constantly more than my hazard emmiter2; yet the shields are even with the 3pc bonus more meh
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There have been comments recently involving the Aegis and Assimilated sets and their role in the end-game, esp here in this sub-forum. So I decided to start a thread and ask this simple question:

    How do you guys see these two sets in comparison to the other end-game sets, and why do you see them that way? Do they need a buff? Or are they fine as is?

    I'll start with my personal opinion.

    In regards to the Aegis set, I always saw it as more of a transition set than an end-game set. It's got fun set bonuses, and decent procs, but overall, I never saw it as more than something to use until you got the Omega rep sets. And tbh, the reason it's so weak is because it equates to a mk IX set. I don't think it was ever intended to be used as end-game gear, or if it was, I don't think it was meant to be staple set.

    In regards to the Assimilated set, it's amazing. Period. The engine is wonderful (+5 power to the SS, turn rate equal to the MACO/Adapted KHG, boosted speed in sector space, you can't go wrong), the Deflector is useful if not good (boosted SIF, boosted PI, boosted GG), and the shield... ok, I was wrong, it's not amazing period.

    Sufficed to say, my only gripe with the Assimilated set are that the deflector is somewhat less amazing than the KHG and MACO deflectors, but still manageable (not going to touch Omega, that seems to be another set that could use a re-work), and that the shield is lackluster. And I mean REALLY lackluster. I believe that recently Virusdancer did some math comparing the Omega rep shields to their mk XII purple variants, and he found that the Assimilated shield was the least bolstered of the 4 sets, and in fact downright weak in comparison.

    Granted I will still continue to use my Assimilated set, since it is still very much viable, but it could still use a little boost (if nothing else give it a [cap] mod, or something).

    Anywho, thoughts?

    One thing that has always bugged me is how the Borg set is the only STF set that only has 15% Plasma resistance as opposed to 20% from the other sets....
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    3-piece is good for tanking tons of little hits (CE when it was glitching and doing silly amounts of mirror ships for example) with the fast regen and the shield-heal proc. Plus an extra tractor beam is always handy, especially when it jacks up the damage of your cutting beam in the process. Particularly since the MACO shield glitches the Plasmonic Leech, Assimilated 3-piece makes an attractive alternative.
  • sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I still use AEGIS shields on a bunch of my ships because I love the neon underglow look. And it doesn't let me down in any endgame PvE.

    I still like the three-piece hull res proc for running CCE.

    And the set used to be more-than-decent for speedtankers in PvP but that was before leet fleet gear and the ACC/DEF DOff power creep.


    Assimilated, I think the built-in healing outweighs the weakness of the shields and I love piling on damage with the built-in tractor beam and KCB and an Omega THY3.
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  • gthaatargthaatar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Welp, the Assimilated set has always been a staple because it was/is the easiest STF set you could get your hands on, and when you add on its still-useful abilities and the general look of it (ships can look pretty cool all borgified) then it still shines as a solid set to use at any time really. Its only when you're min-maxing will it become absolutely necessary to drop it for something superior (and even then, some builds can utilize it very effectively).


    As for the Aegis, its a nice go-to set when you're still repping and need something for defensive measures. The engines and shield for instance were a god-send for my Romulan before I was able to get him up on reputation gear. However, the effort to get a hold of them (via making them or buying them) tends to dim a lot of its qualities, and as most sets are much more superior, it does end up being left in that relatively short window between hitting level 50 (or whatever level you're allowed to use it at, I can't remember) and getting your first set of proper reputation gear, where the 3m+ cost (or the crafting grind) is weighted against the relatively easy reputation grind.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I might be one of the few who never uses the borg set anymore since they made you need the shields for the 3 pc bonus. The 2 pc bonus is ok, but I usually rather have MACO, Omega, or HG 2 pc instead with elite shields. I don't even get the borg set on post rep system characters anymore.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Aegis - transitional up to level 45.
    Borg - used to be transitional up to level 50.

    Aegis is obviously meant to be subpar to the STF sets - much in the sense that the Jem, Breen, and Nukara are. They're on a different level.

    Unfortunately, imho, with the change to Reputation - the Borg set did not have its cost increased to match the other sets while bringing it in line with them. It's a reduced cost set that the reduction in cost does not justify the reduction in performance...imho again.

    Aegis is what it is. Borg should have the cost increased and be brought in line with the rest. That being said, I believe that shouldn't happen until after they decide to replicate the changes in how the Voth Rep will work to the other Reps. With that said, I do believe an upgrade path should be implemented for folks that currently have some version of the Borg set - even if they have Mk XII, they'd have to pay some incremental cost to get the new Mk XII.

    As an aside, I believe such should exist for everybody that has a Mk X/Mk XI piece of the other sets to upgrade to Mk XII...don't think folks should be grandfathered in/given freebies in that sense.

    Further as an aside, I believe they should give the Breen set the Jem Lobi treatment...perhaps at some non-existent point in time when there's a Breen Lockbox with the Sarr Theln. ;)
  • bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited October 2013
    I love the aegis look but not enough to wear it. The elite shields out class the aegis set almost on their own. Only thing you're missing is a defence bonus.

    Assimilated set, I love the full set for tanking but the shield is very weak, 2 shots and you're through it more or less. Could do with a bit more cap or some form of resistance stacking. In fact I'm surprised it doesn't have the whole resistance stacking thing being, ya know, Borg and all.

    I'd love to see assimilated shield to get a small boost, maybe to cap or massive regen to make it competitive but that's all I'd change.

    As for the aegis...that's a hard one. I'd probably increase its resistance stacks and make them the highest in the game. Alternatively you could have it stack multiple energy types up to 30% each. As in if you're taking fire from 3 different energy types you eventually build up a 30% stack against all 3 types.

    Then perhaps have a look at putting some sprinkles on it.

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  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    if you guys arent liking the assimilated shield...then there is something your all doing wrong...or your used to the fleet gear.


    I for one love the borg set, running at over 100 shield power means its a very good regen shield (as that is what it is)...heck even if you arent runnign at 100 shield, the shield heals like SST and EPtS are great for it.


    as for aegis, eh sort of lackluster IMO, though i tend to use regen shields and resilient shields alot. it was a godo set to use on a low level toon...but ever since the update that added in the Mark type it is useless too me. (idk what the mark is atm)
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Full Assimilated + Full Omega set on a Battlecruiser is just so full of win.
    Makes for an extremely durable and powerful ship, In PvE and PvP.
  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I agree with this. Once you get the full MkXII set, a leech, a fleet neutronium and get used to seeing your shields see-saw back and forth, its actually quite nifty when you're starved for heals in an Aux2batt cruiser.

    Granted you need to build your ship in a certain way to maximize the full assimilated set, which includes choosing all the defensive space passives except Nukara T2. I haven't tested it but I think Shield Emitters benefit the shield proc, which makes the T4 Nukara defensive power worth its weight in Assimilated.


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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    2pc assimilated mk Xii + elite shield resB is my pve loadout for all of my ships (currently experimenting with adapted KHG on my torkie, and not liking it)

    now that I think of it, that is also my pvp loadout, as well. though I switch to ResA elites as needed.

    The passive hull heal is indispensible as far as I am concerned. (it usually accounts for a full 1/4 of all my self healing in a typical STF run)
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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    cynder2012 wrote: »
    if you guys arent liking the assimilated shield...then there is something your all doing wrong...or your used to the fleet gear.


    I for one love the borg set, running at over 100 shield power means its a very good regen shield (as that is what it is)...heck even if you arent runnign at 100 shield, the shield heals like SST and EPtS are great for it.


    as for aegis, eh sort of lackluster IMO, though i tend to use regen shields and resilient shields alot. it was a godo set to use on a low level toon...but ever since the update that added in the Mark type it is useless too me. (idk what the mark is atm)

    And what I bolded is the important part...

    Assimilated set's shield is the regenerative variety, while MACO is resilient (has the 5% extra absorption so that only 5% damage hits hull)... Haven't studied shields enough to know how Omega and KHG fit into the spread...
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    dareau wrote: »
    And what I bolded is the important part...

    Assimilated set's shield is the regenerative variety, while MACO is resilient (has the 5% extra absorption so that only 5% damage hits hull)... Haven't studied shields enough to know how Omega and KHG fit into the spread...

    That may be true, but the set 2 piece regens your hull much more than youd lose on an extra 5% bleed in almost every case

    Youd have to be taking some really heavy damage to notice a real difference.

    However, the 2 piece set bonus can also be used on elite fleets that also are resilient

    Now that is something crazy, let me tell you. Especially when you stack a damage type stack, have 5% bleedthrough, AND the 2 piece set bonus. Outside of big big hits, you never see your hull move vs that damage type (especially with HE active)

    People have asked me in game several times how i got my ships (fleet dhelans and a fleet advanced escort) to be as tanky as a cruiser. That is how. Combine that with chaining TSS 1 and 3, and its pretty much invulnerable vs anything but the most spike of damage.
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So if Aegis and Assimilated sets are the Red-headed step children what does that make the breen set? The poor child locked under the stairs?
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  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I wear Aegis on my Reman until I can get his Scimitar and start working on end-game gear. My Caitian science uses her MK XII assimilated set for her tank build. This set works even better than my old Galaxy tank which at the time was ridiculously strong in heals.

    She's themed to Borg so I just use the whole thing including the shield and it works perfectly fine for me. There's plenty of additional mods on fleet consoles to make up for anything lost.

    Don't see what the issue with the shield is.

    Set has worked both fine in PVE and some PVP.
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  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Aegis set I always found lacklustre since the other sets got in game.

    Now, the Romulan, Reman, Omega, Jem'hadar and Breen sets are somewhat better.

    The Borg set I find more powerful than those above, but perphaps not as good as Honour guard, Maco or Nukara sets. But yeah, its mainly the shields that are lacking.

    I usually use Honour guard if I got torpedoes , if not I usually go for Maco.
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  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So if Aegis and Assimilated sets are the Red-headed step children what does that make the breen set? The poor child locked under the stairs?

    What, there's another child? Almost forgot about that one...

    That's not entirely fair, btw: the Breen set does have one use. It's the best for a consta-cloak transphasic bomber, arguably. Just like the Jem set makes for a nice stealth snooper set.


    I do use 2-piece Aegis + Elite Resilient shields on some characters, though, to some satisfaction. Comparing 2-piece boni, that +10% def was a pretty decent deal, when not using torps (otherwise KHG/Adapted MACO(?) hands down).
  • lordkundolordkundo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I would take a mkx Borg set over a mkXII anything. It is hands down the best set in the game.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Fleet res shield vs borg Mk xii shield. Is the loss of the shield heal proc worth that of the beefy fleet shield?

    Ryan,im looking at you, I know you tested this. This is not including any boff heals (i don't run them cause I'm crazy like that)
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  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordkundo wrote: »
    I would take a mkx Borg set over a mkXII anything. It is hands down the best set in the game.

    Regeneration plus a gimmick tractor beam means squat when you're dead.
  • lordkundolordkundo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Regeneration plus a gimmick tractor beam means squat when you're dead.

    Hahahahahaha....come kill me then tough guy. Shield cap means nothing
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Regeneration plus a gimmick tractor beam means squat when you're dead.

    Everything means squat when your dead...derp?
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  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    An upgrade project or path for the Aegis set (Or even Breen set) would be great. Sadly, that's not "Playing as Intended" as anything that could derail you from the grind for STF gear is frowned upon.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    dahminus wrote: »
    Everything means squat when your dead...derp?

    Spike damage combined with the power of active healing means long term regen based builds are at a severe disadvantage compared to builds capable of absorbing, and then recovering from, extreme damage totals in the short term.
    lordkundo wrote: »
    Hahahahahaha....come kill me then tough guy. Shield cap means nothing

    Congratulations on fully admitting you have zero grasp of how STO's space combat works. Shield capacity is one of the most important values in the era of realistic perma-capped shield DR.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordkundo wrote: »
    Shield cap means nothing

    That's a curious statement to make.

    Let's say we compare Borg (Regen) vs. KHG (Covariant).

    Base
    Borg - 5420.2, a 6022.5 shot will drop the facing.
    KHG - 8347.2, a 9274.7 shot will drop the facing.
    Need 3252.2 more damage to drop the KHG facing.

    w/99 Shield Systems
    Borg -7046.3, a 7829.2 shot will drop the facing.
    KHG - 10135.9, a 11262.1 shot will drop the facing.
    Need 3432.9 more damage to drop the KHG facing.

    w/+20% Field Gen
    Borg - 8130.3, a 9033.7 shot will drop the facing.
    KHG - 11328.4, a 12587.1 shot will drop the facing.
    Need 3553.4 more damage to drop the KHG facing.

    w/36.4% Shield Damage Reduction (130 Shield Subsystem Power)
    Borg - 12783.5, a 14203.9 shot will drop the facing.
    KHG - 17811.9, a 19791 shot will drop the facing.
    Need 5587.1 more damage to drop the KHG facing.

    w/75% Shield Damage Reduction (instead of the 36.4%)
    Borg - 32521.2, a 36134.7 shot will drop the facing.
    KHG - 45313.6, a 50348.4 shot will drop the facing.
    Need 14213.7 more damage to drop the KHG facing.

    So then, how about we take a look at an attack, eh?

    Beam Bank

    Base 130
    VR +9.7 = 139.7
    Mk XII +156.4 = 296.1
    Weapon Training +100.1 = 396.2
    Energy Weapons +80.6 = 476.8
    5x VR Mk XII Consoles +195 = 671.8
    Secondary Set Bonus +9.9 = 681.7
    @125 Weapon Power * 2.5 = 1704.3
    Rombush +426.1 = 2130.4
    APA3 +852.2 = 2982.6
    APO3 +426.1 = 3408.7
    EPtW1 +170.4 = 3579.1
    BO3 * 8.5 = 30422.4
    +180% CrtD = 85182.7

    Okay, let's land that baby against our two shields.

    Borg
    Damage 85182.7
    Bleedthrough 8518.3
    Remaining Damage 76664.4
    Shield EHP (75% Reduction from Above) 32521.2
    Remaining Damage 44143.2
    Total Damage to Hull (w/o Resists) 52661.5

    KHG
    Damage 85182.7
    Bleedthrough 8518.3
    Remaining Damage 76664.4
    Shield EHP (75% Reduction from Above) 45313.6
    Remaining Damage 31350.8
    Total Damage to Hull (w/o Resists) 39869.1

    The guy with the Borg shields takes 12792.4 more damage to hull (w/o resists) than the guy with the KHG shields.

    The guy with the Borg shields...is likely dead...one-shot.
    The guy with the KHG shields...maybe has that chance to get a heal off (or a team member to get a heal off) before that next attack comes rolling in (likely concurrent).

    But uh...
    lordkundo wrote: »
    Shield cap means nothing

    That's a curious statement to make.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Assimilated set is fine as is. The shield is certainly not the best, but when part of a 3-piece set the proc hull and shield heals balance it out, especially when equipped to a ship with a high enough shield mod (sci ships, carriers, the Elachi escort). No other set offers bonuses on par with the Borg set, which is why there has to be some balance.

    ALL of the individual Borg set pieces are rather poor. The engine is slow, the deflector only really any good for a sci and the shield has a low cap. Even then, the heal procs not only balance this out, it makes it rather uber.

    The AEGIS set feels like it's a prototype for the Elite fleet shields. Problem is the 3-piece shield adaption bonus is inferior to the elite fleet shields adaption mod. Aegis adaption can only stack 5 times, while elite fleet shields adaption stacks 10 times on it's own.
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  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    A few quick comments to make:

    1) Virus, you and your math are amazing. In fact it was your comment on the total number of mods on each STF set in another thread that got this baby rolling.

    2) Stop bringing up the Breen and JH sets. They are freebie sets. I was referring to sets that cost quite a lot (IE the mk XII stf sets, blah blah blah).

    3) I was mainly commenting that in comparison to the other mk XII stf sets, yes, the Assimilated set is SLIGHTLY cheaper (only costs 5 BNPs as opposed to 10), but that cost reduction does not warrant how blatantly weak the set itself is.

    Yes, I know, it has amazing procs. But you know what? Those are PROCS. They have a chance to fail. Or not activate. And tbh, the other two main STF sets (KHG, MACO) are just better as base stats go by a rather large margin, and their bonuses aren't that far behind the Assimilated set.

    Carry on.
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  • lordkundolordkundo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    All I can say, is I'll be home in about 2 hours. If u are on, look for king in the organized PvP channel. Then u can show me how your going to carve me into little pieces since my shield cap sucks. I'll even fly my Vulcan ship for ya
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