Fustrated with PVP; A rant

webdeath

I think I will start this off with a disclaimer about how most of this is probably rant/raving and less about any actual PVP Related grief.

That being said, I just feel like I can't perform as well as I used to in PVP No matter what build I run any longer. Of course, I know the reasons for this. But those reasons suck.

Gone is the day when you could take white gear into PVP and have a good time. Now its Fleet it up or Go home. And to me, that is making PVP even less accessable then it used to be.

Now sure in the past, before Fleets, before Rep grind, and before Purples would even Drop in Ker'rat, or PVE queue "Fleet Actions" we almost had an eaiser time to get gear. PVP actually felt fun. And there was Satasifaction in getting a kill. Because you knew everyone had the same stuff more or less.

Now if you can't get a kill, you almost scratch your head, or blaim something being OP, whether its too much defense, or too much healing, or maybe too much "P2W"... there is something we can eaisly latch on to. Same thing happens in reverse if you get killed now.. Maybe it was Beam Overload Double Tap, or too much "P2W" spam, or what not.

I will say I have been on the recieving end of both sides of the coin lately.. I've been killed, going from 100% hull, PH, HE 2, Aux to Sif 3 (About 90ish aux running), Borg Hull Proc, and at least 2 Armor Consoles equiped.. didn't matter.. Still dead from 100% hull.. Shield stats at about 75%.. Nope.. didn't matter.. Dead.

And each time that happens I try to see what caused it. And each time I scratch my head in wonder.. And then it makes me wonder even more.. why can't I do that?

Is it because I don't macro as much as everyone else?

Is it because I don't Grind everything and spend all my free time trying to get Gear/Rep/EC/Dilithium, etc?

Could it be that I just have too many characters active, even if I have been focusing on 3 characters lately?

Could it be the "Oooh new shiny" complex when it comes to builds?

And of course there is an obvious answer to this.. I just can't do it any more. I can't make builds like I used to. All though to be honest most of my builds came from better builds before me.. either on advice from better players, or ones I saw in videos or on the forums..

It could also be that I just don't have the time to grind out Rep Bonuses, Rep Gear, Fleet Credits to buy Fleet ships and get fleet gear, EC to buy lockbox ships that might fit my play style more..

Maybe its just all of it.. Maybe everyone, all this time, have just been better then me, and while I was teamed with the betters, I thought I was improving, when they were just hiding how badly I really play.

I used to love PVP. I used to enjoy the thrill of chasing some one down, or finding a new wrinkle to use in order to help get just one more kill.. But lately that joy has been fleeting and harder and harder to find..

Is it the power creep that I keep hearing about.. is that what I'm now experienceing? Hard for me to say really. All I know is, I don't seem capable of even doing what I used to do.. Which is have fun in PVP. Weither its getting kills, or being the most annoying yet survivable thing on the field.. I just don't feel like I can do it any more..

Maybe this is a cry for thelp. Maybe this is just an honest to god rant. Maybe I have been seeing the game through rose colored glasses. Maybe it is just a bad day for me in PVP. All I know is, if I ever face some one I know is good, and is not a pver, I'll never get anywhere, and they always kill me..

So here it is.. I am Teapower, Web Death, Kilawpilath.. And I don't think I can win at PVP any more.. No, this is not an I quit. Because like the man in Galaxy Quest said "Never give up! Never surrender!" But there is currently a wall infront of me.. And until I find the explosives I need to get through that wall... I don't know if I can do it any more.

So I thank you if you got this far.. I'm sorry for the wall you had to face to reach this ending.. And I am sorry for the rant... but this was something I had to get off my chest. Not sure if anyone else feels the same way in PVP Lately. But thought I would share what was on my mind.

virusdancer

I used to enjoy going wheeee with Plague (Fed Eng w/ Chel Grett) and Prophet (KDF Eng w/ JHEC) - didn't expect to kill anything...just be annoying. Now, well - they might as well be flying freighters - heck, freighters would probably last longer.

So I started enjoying going wheee and being annoying with Willard (Rem Sci w/ Fleet T'varo). In the past week, I've wondered if he should be flying a Suliban.

Though, admittedly - I had a happy death yesterday, the first in a long time. They were persistent, they worked together, they outplayed me...it was a good death. I went to thank them for it and my internet dropped...meh.

Frankly, it seems like the more folks discuss issues - the more folks point out what is broken - the longer that Cryptic doesn't address things...the more that some folks out there take it as a To-Do list of what they should be doing.

Some Players: Hey, Cryptic - this stuff may be OP - may not be working as intended.
Cryptic:
Some Players: Cryptic?
Cryptic:
Some Other Players: Oh, nifty!

Sometimes, the most fun I have in PvP these days is just dropping a Warp Shadow to watch what folks drop out on it. It's a freaking Warp Shadow, it's freaking obvious that it's not a player, and it's freaking hilarious to watch how many 3m consoles and all the rest get dropped on it by 3-4 or more players.

Then you have the players with enough common sense not to do something that stupid, but all that means is that they're dropping out all that garbage on actual players instead.

Yeah, that death yesterday - really wish I could have thanked them - it was awesome. No broken TRIBBLE, just team work and persistence...it was definitely a good job on their part.

majortiraomega

Indeed, I know the feeling. Unfortunately it isn't one thing that's making PvP unenjoyable. Back in Season 5 I used to love flying escorts. I used a Beam BO3/HY3/APO3 with BO2/HYI/APB1 Patrol Escort with Full MACO, earning it though the random drop STFs. Those were very enjoyable times.

Things started to change when Cryptic buffed the Jem'hadar Attack ship with Season 6. It got worse in Season 7 with the introduction of the Tier IV Romulan Placate Proc, the Tier IV Omega super shield heal, and fleets finally reaching Elite fleet shields. All of that power creep made escorts far too tanky. March/April brought the influx of elite fleet hangar items, making it far too easy for carriers to disable players (Elite Siphon Drones/Interceptors/Yellowstone Runabouts)

The worst was Legacy of Romulus, which really messed over Starfleet and the KDF. Between their undetectable romulan battle cloaks with no hull/shield penalties, singularity powers, and bridge officers it's really not much fun trying to queue up as Starfleet or KDF anymore. The romulan ships are all over the top. Legacy of Romulus also brought speed issues in the form of Emergency Power of Engines, making it really difficult for anyone without a battle cloak to remain aware of their surroundings due to how fast paces ship combat is because of that one ability.

Now, maybe one day Cryptic will get everything sorted out. It would take a lot of work, but it's still possible. Don't worry though, it's not you, it's all of the power creep within this game right now. When in the very rare matches without excess laggy pet spam, Jem'hadar Attack ships, Romulans, or Tier IV Romulan Placate I still enjoy flying a science vessel. There are still some really good PvP matches out there, but it's a lot harder to find them. It's why I prefer ground PvP right now, there is a lot less setup and it's still quite enjoyable.

bareel

* is dangerous. The + not so much. Far too much power creep has been in the * department lately hence the problem.

masterkeychnk5

Perhaps its you web, perhaps its not.

Hard to tell. The only fact i know is there is so much more CC then in the past that its simply alot harder to make a build work the way it should.

No matter how you build it

virusdancer

web, whatever you do...don't read the Interview a Dev: CaptainGeko...

stevehale

You certainly aren't alone in this.

thishorizon

Tea,

just drop back for a bit bro.

hell, i used to really enjoy being one of the most respected and feared tacs out there....

these days i do okay...i think for many of the same reasons you are communicating here.

i see it as mostly my time in the game dwindling due to real life surcumstances combined with the overall frustrations with game mechanics.

some days i feel really on point. especially the times when im out with the pandas calling targets. but still there, what used to be my real strong point in pvp, has dwindled to barely just getting by.

i feel your frustrations. you have garnered much respect in your time with this game among your peers. that success cannot be taken away.

have fun kill bad guys,

for as long as you can stand it,
we'll be around for support when you need it.

-thrusters on full-

ussultimatum

I think you've identified most of the issues.

Let me give a broader recap of what I think.


1) The game/meta-game is constantly changing. While it adds fun new stuff, it also adds new stuff to learn and keep up with, earn and grind for.

2) It also sounds like you might be having a bit of burnout. You might need some time off, and then come back fresh.

3) Fleet/Small Core of Friends. For me, this helps alleviate #1 & #2. Fleet of like-minded players will provide a place to blow off steam, discuss builds, form a social knowledge base so you're not tasked with learning or keeping tabs on every new development.


To be honest with you, I was ready to quit the game last December until I finally found a fleet.

That's what keeps the enjoyment of the game going for me, and even when I'm burnt out and "take a break" from PvP, I tend to still log on to chat and discuss builds, etc.

webdeath

virusdancer wrote: »

web, whatever you do...don't read the Interview a Dev: CaptainGeko...

WAs this what you didnt' want me to read?

My take as Lead Designer is that the problem is not significant. Stop off at any social hub or sector space and there are plenty of cruisers, carriers and science vessels that players fly. Now, that all being said, I don't deny the effectiveness of Escorts, and I'm not saying we are not interested in offering new options. As mentioned above, we are currently looking into a possible new mechanic for Cruisers and Science Vessels, as well as new Bridge Officer power options for all professions. Also, some of the new Content in Season 8 has objectives that are better completed by different ship classes. But I don't believe any of these changes will significantly change ship roles in STO ? our goal is to just keep things fresh and fun.

mimey2

ussultimatum wrote: »

2) It also sounds like you might be having a bit of burnout. You might need some time off, and then come back fresh.

This sums it up for me nicely. I didn't play at all for nearly two solid weeks, I was just so burnt out. Still kinda am, but figured today I would at least log in to keep my skills decently sharp.

webdeath

ussultimatum wrote: »

2) It also sounds like you might be having a bit of burnout. You might need some time off, and then come back fresh.

3) Fleet/Small Core of Friends. For me, this helps alleviate #1 & #2. Fleet of like-minded players will provide a place to blow off steam, discuss builds, form a social knowledge base so you're not tasked with learning or keeping tabs on every new development.


To be honest with you, I was ready to quit the game last December until I finally found a fleet.

That's what keeps the enjoyment of the game going for me, and even when I'm burnt out and "take a break" from PvP, I tend to still log on to chat and discuss builds, etc.

Its possible these two maybe what is going on.. Though I'm a little hesistant to believe its #2 because I used to play alot more often, but lately Real life/Friends have been limiting the amount of time I play to alot less then usual.

I do have some friends in Sto, but lately I haven't been as active with them.. Which I do regret. Though I just don't always feel up to jumping in a Vent/Teamspeak channel to Shoot the stuff.. Maybe because I always like to try to figure stuff out first on my own.. Bleh.. I dunno..

I will admit I do get jealous of some of the stronger and closer network some fleets have, weither its the Pandas, HOBO's, SOB, to name a couple, or others, I do some times wish that I was still in a fleet of active players. But then I think on how I don't have as much time to dedicate to STO like I used to and feel more like I should just be Solomanning it..

And then that is when the Pugs happen.. which seems to be more avaliable then TD matches.. Not to mention I haven't seen TD run Assaults or C&H.. always Arena.. which really sucks when I just want to get my daily done..



I do thank you for the advice.

masterkeychnk5

You're always welcome here with us.

taylor1701d

I'd say... You have too many character on the go.

I myself, have 5 on the go...but I only work on 1 at a time.
I had the same feelings as you.. for a long time.
I learned a hard lesson in STO, I started as a sci...who knew, it was such an effort to bring an acceptable ship to battle... What a quest, what an expense, what a grind

At first I thought, "great, advanced fleet weapons , this will gimme that edge in pvp"
WRONG
Then i thought..."okay, Elite Fleet ship layout, sheilds, deflector, engines, no problemo"
WRONG
Then I was like "okay rep consoles, AND CUT BEAM, ohhhhh ahhhhh, pvp here I come"
WRONG
Then I said... Hmmm fleet plasma infused console, this oughtta help"
WRONG
Then I said...what else
Rom exp beam xii
Rom plasma weapons xii
Rom hyper torp xii
Omega Toro xii
Boff skill adjument after boff skill adjustment
Adapted maco set xii
Borg set xii
Jemhadar set xii

Then I said hmm I need rom elite scorpions

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
In the end with a few skill respecs I finally managed a decent pvp build.


my point being... You need to invest all your time on one character for a while, pick your favorite and don't stop until you are satisfied.
It costs a fortune to fully equip a character. It costs a fortune in time as well if you want to do it for free.
At one point...buying a ship is not a terrible idea...fleet ship, or a lobi ship on the exchange.
Give yourself a fighting chance..

I understand your concern about pvp being rather..exclusive.
But think...only the best players are scrapping it out in arenas and capture and holds...
Its like...the professional league...only the best captains don't get fragged repeatedly.
Only the best..
It feels good to deal out more kills then deaths...but remember...if you're healing allies and being useful in other ways (claiming enemy flags - like a scout would, subnukeing or other crowd control skills, you can still be a valuable ally) ...just try new approaches until you aquire all the gear you'll need...

A hint: if you're underpowered...you need a fast ship, Use an engine that is FAST, carry engine batteries, have emergency power to engines....and if underfire by a group of enemies....GTFO out of there PRONTO, you're no good to anyone if ur dead
Speed is life, don't be affraid to pour full power into engines if you're in a jam

\\//_
Live Long & Prosper

ussultimatum

webdeath wrote: »

I do have some friends in Sto, but lately I haven't been as active with them.. Which I do regret. Though I just don't always feel up to jumping in a Vent/Teamspeak channel to Shoot the stuff.. Maybe because I always like to try to figure stuff out first on my own.. Bleh.. I dunno..

I will admit I do get jealous of some of the stronger and closer network some fleets have, weither its the Pandas, HOBO's, SOB, to name a couple, or others, I do some times wish that I was still in a fleet of active players. But then I think on how I don't have as much time to dedicate to STO like I used to and feel more like I should just be Solomanning it..

It depends on the fleet you join, or the friends you have.

Take Capt. Horizon for example. He doesn't get much playtime, he has a lot of RL stuff going on. He very rarely gets to do premades with us.

When he's on though, we're all still happy to have him around. We have quite a few guys like this, who have other RL priorities that prevent them from frequent play.

Any good fleet should accommodate that.

webdeath wrote: »

And then that is when the Pugs happen.. which seems to be more avaliable then TD matches.. Not to mention I haven't seen TD run Assaults or C&H.. always Arena.. which really sucks when I just want to get my daily done..
.

Hmm, sounds like you might have just volunteered yourself to start up some TD run Assaults & C&H. :P

Seriously though, if you start it people might come...or they might not. Never hurts to try though, and it will probably be a hell of a lot more fun with 10 TD guys than just queuing up for C&H.

antoniosalieri

I know exactly how you feel Teapower.

Before all the insane power creep there where rewards for being experimental.

There has always been what people consider to be "best practice" for the current meta.

It used to be however that the gap between that and not that wasn't near as large. At one time you could experiment with odd builds that would work because they exploited something most people where relying on at any given time.

These days there is almost no room for that anymore... Massive Spike... Massive Healing. If you don't have either maxed up with gear and rep you won't overcome the other. There is no more balanced builds where you can push some odd combo of boff skills anymore to be successful.

I believe I know exactly how you feel... I have gotten board of this game... mainly because there is no more experiment factor. I know that 99% of the stuff I dream up is simply not going to be effective.

Honestly I have been spending most of my time lately in Defiance. If you do there free trial they will try to sell you a copy for $5 after a few days... worth every penny. lol They had a rocky launch... however I think the game has a pretty good future with story tie ins... and even if it doesn't. Its a pretty good replica of a MMO Boarderlands, with out the cell shading. lol For the price you can't really go wrong, even if you just spend a week playing out the story.

Unknown

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bitemepwe

Webdeath, I've felt this way for almost two years. Tired of trying to keep up with the power creep and gave it up a long time ago. Tired of the egoes and special interest nerfs, the constant imbalance introduced by Cryptic in lockbox or whatever.
The fundays of PvP pugging are no more.
The only thing I still do is hit the forums. I can only blaim OCD and heavy drinking for that.

Oddly though, part of me still longs for the thrill of combat against real life foes. I just do not feel STO will ever be balanced enough to make ot fun.

virusdancer

This is Willard's current build...I'm almost always dorking around with different Torps, Consoles, BOFFs, and DOFFs...but this is what he's flying at this precise moment (okay, what he's sitting in orbit around New Rom as I lurk on the forums rather than playing the game)...

Fleet T'varo w/ KDF-aligned Reman Sci Captain

Traits - Reman, Infiltrator, Singularity Specialist, Conservation of Energy, Photonic Capacitor, Accurate, Astrophysicist, Elusive, Techie

Reputation
New Rom - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Nukara - Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense, Refracting Tetryon Cascade
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier

HY1, TS2, DPB2, APO3
TT1
ET1, AtS1
PH1, TSS2, VM1
HE1, HE2

(2x Sub/Sup Op, 1x Sub, 2x Op)

DOFFs - PWO(Torp), 2x PWO(Torp), 2x SE(VM+)

Deflector - KHG Mk XII
Engines - Aegis
Shields - KHG Mk XII
Core - Overcharged Mk XI [SingA][Jump][Trans]

Weapons
Fore - Omega Torp, Tric Torp Mk XII [Acc]x3, 2x Rapid Trans Mk XI
Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, Breen Cluster, Web Mines

Consoles
Tac - 2x Ambiplasma Mk XI, 2x Transphasic Mk XI
Eng - Tachyo, Borg, Neut Mk XI
Sci - Plasma Destabilizer, Singularity Stabilizer, 0Point

Devices - SFM, Aux Batt

Other - Nimbus Pirate Distress Call

Yep, I want to fix his traits...might do that at some point.
Yep, I want to do the 5x Sub/Sup Op BOFFs...might do that at some point.
Yep, I want the E-Neut Mk XII console...might do that at some point.
Yep, I want the Bioneural Infusion console...might do that at some point.
Yep, I want the Subspace Torp...might do that at some point.

For the most part though, I don't expect to be able to kill anything with that build. I don't expect to be able to survive anything with that that build (well, nothing serious). I avoid Arenas with that build...but I fly around going wheee, dropping off presents - randomly buff stripping folks - giving them the cooties - or blowing up their pets in Ker'rat and CnH.

You might say I've snapped...gone off the deep end - but it's impossible to take things serious. Sometimes I fly around healing an Aceton Assimilator while folks are fighting away nearby. I'll drop out VM on a HY Torp to make it pretty purple! Somebody's got 12 pets close to them - how does that not scream out for a Tet Cascade? Dropping Warp Shadows and watching people go all out on them is fun. Hrmm, I do complain sometimes - I hate it when I blow up to my Beach Ball and it's not a crit...

So...you know...well...there's folks offering some decent suggestions in this thread, offering opportunities for you to hang out with some not over the top folks, going through and trying to get the TD CnH thing going, etc, etc, etc...

...don't end up like me.

webdeath

virusdancer wrote: »

...don't end up like me.

Its too late for that.. because I might have helped mini actually move into a Mogai.... :eek:

When I get off work I'll post my current builds for my Reman/Tac, BorgRom/Sci, and Romulan/Engi FedRom characters.

virusdancer

webdeath wrote: »

Its too late for that.. because I might have helped mini actually move into a Mogai.... :eek:

Is he trying out the IPB thing?

I've wondered what would happen if you did IPB and Mag at the same time...

bitemepwe

Accept the invites Webdeath. Do not burn bridges as I have done.

webdeath

bitemepwe wrote: »

Accept the invites Webdeath. Do not burn bridges as I have done.

I plan to accept any invites I am given.. once i'm not on the clock.. Yay working from home lol

webdeath

virusdancer wrote: »

Is he trying out the IPB thing?

I've wondered what would happen if you did IPB and Mag at the same time...

Not sure how much I can.. or cannot say..

scurry5

Don't worry, and take it easy, man. A lot of us forget that this is a game, and it's fine to take breaks. Anyways, yes, plenty of powercreep has happened, and grinding like mad is more-or-less necessary. Even blue MkXI equipment is outmoded, much less white. My Mogai has just MkXI equipment besides weapons, and it is horribly squishy - much more so than the stats might indicate.

I understand where you're coming from, certainly. Kind of reflects my experiences with Tacscorts - no matter what I do, I can barely do a thing in them. The fact that I almost exclusively pug doesn't help, either. I keep yo-yoing between wanting to join a PvP fleet -because of camaraderie - and not wanting to - because of politics.

Anyways, enough about me. Hang in there, get some closer friends

webdeath

I will say I am greatful for the responses I've seen today. They do make me feel abit better in knowing that at least I'm not the only one who has been getting fustrated..

And the help being offered is much appricated.

So I thank the responses so far.

lter

Being a casual pvpeer is punished in STO, even more with more fleet TRIBBLE, romulans, reputation skills, traits, doffs, and **** and you'll end giving up on it because Cryptic has decided to go nonstop releasing all that **** and that'll be STO till its end, so eventually everyone here will assume that, stop dreaming, and move along like OP will do/should do.

mimey2

lter wrote: »

Being a casual pvpeer is punished in STO, even more with more fleet TRIBBLE, romulans, reputation skills, traits, doffs, and **** and you'll end giving up on it because Cryptic has decided to go nonstop releasing all that **** and that'll be STO till its end, so eventually everyone here will assume that, stop dreaming, and move along like OP will do/should do.

Interesting point to bring up actually. The more they push the 'casual' aspect of the game, the worse it actually gets for people trying to 'casually PvP'.

That isn't going into any lack of skill on the part of the player, just a player trying to enjoy PvP once in awhile and having to deal with a LOT of TRIBBLE that has been added in.

snoge00f

antoniosalieri wrote: »

Honestly I have been spending most of my time lately in Defiance. If you do there free trial they will try to sell you a copy for $5 after a few days... worth every penny. lol They had a rocky launch... however I think the game has a pretty good future with story tie ins... and even if it doesn't. Its a pretty good replica of a MMO Boarderlands, with out the cell shading. lol For the price you can't really go wrong, even if you just spend a week playing out the story.

haha wow.

I thought you hated shooters. I got that one too.

voporak

I feel for you, webdeath. Myself, I'm frustrated that I acquired a JHAS and grinded all the fleet gear and rep and stuff (and this is just on my main character, the only one I happen to do basically anything with) and that I can hardly PvP, because it's either A) go through the queue and likely get paired with clueless teammates or get rolfstomped by a premade, play around in Kerrat, where there's an overabundance of feds - and when I do find someone to fight, it's either a KDF with friends or a battlecloak spamming Rom. The last option is C) Try to find a game going on in OPVP or Tyler Durden, which I have found to be extremely difficult. I hear TD is hoppin' with games, I must just be looking at the wrong times.

webdeath

As Promised, below are my Romulan characters, the ones I've mostly devoted my time to.

Romulan/Engineer/Dhelan Warbird Retrofit

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lava1_0

Doffs: Very Rare Systems Engineer(Multiple VM), Rare Systems Engineer(VM Spread), 3x Energy Weapons Officer(Beam Overload Shield Penetration)

Notes: Yes I know I only have rare or Mk X gear on him and the Beam Overload Doffs are Uncommon.. He's still fresh out of grinding to 50

Reman/Tactical/Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tatuk1_0

Doffs: 2x Very Rare Technician, 1x Rare Technician, Warp Core Engineer(Space Power boost on EPtX), Matter-Antimatter specialist(EPtE)

Notes: Aux to Bat build power settings (May sound odd but seems to work wierdly) 15/15/30/100, Main plan is to get the Expose proc for fun Ion Blasts.

Liberated Borg (Romulan)/Science/D'Deridex Warbird Battle Cruiser Retrofit

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=sherie_0

Doffs: Very Rare "Law", Very Rare Projectile Weapons Officer(Cool down reduction), Rare Projectile Weapons Officer(Torps gain Singularity charge), Warp Core Engineer(Chance to Reduce singularity lock out on EPtX), Very Rare Gravimetric Scientist(Grav Well Aftershocks)

Notes: This is more of a build I am messing around with while taking a break from my Ha'nom torp boat, it would take too much time to put both builds here.. so I'll just leave the D'D build up for now.