I wonder how much more effectively Gravity Well and Tyken's rift will be once the dev's fix goes live. They got worried about GW3's damage at 150 particle generators skill with 130 aux and dialed it back a bit. Anyone know how high you can take the skill with only ship equipment and non-permanent traits (Ex Ins Leader which is chance based). I ask because I want to try it out just as an experiment once it's in Tribble.
Another question, and this is because I'd have to rerun my tests at different levels of power insulators and while leaving flow caps static at different skill levels to figure it out, but does anyone know the relationship between power insulators and flow capacitors in this game equation wise? Not exactly the easiest to figure out with all the rounding in this game (Which you can clearly see when you get drained and some power levels go down for example 12 and others 13).
@iskandus
Thank you for the great tips and suggestions.
I've kind of learned everything in bits and pieces, and from fleet mates, here and there. So it's very helpful to get some informed information.
Thanks for the in-depth review.
I didn't realize TSS was a better healer then ST, ill have to look into some adjustments...learn something new everyday...
And yeah I had just noticed the other day that TT shares a CD with ST.. so that was something else I had intended on adjusting.
Awesome info
Will add the provided links to my reading list.
VM is not terribly useful in PvP for a few reasons. EPtX each repairs one of the disabled subsystems, notably EPtE will repair disabled engines. VM's punch is stopping an enemy dead but the activation of EPtE alone repairs the engine disable. It doesn't matter if you have 300 in Subspace Decompiler skill in a VM III or not, the engine disable will be gone. Furthermore, the Romulan doff that clears all debuffs upon activation of EPtX will also instantly clear VM. So by simply pressing EPtE, which many PvPers have these days, it will be guaranteed to repair Engines + a good chance of getting rid of VM completely. So heavy investment into VM can be made totally useless easily. Because VM have GCD of 30 sec, even with 2 copies whereas EPtE or any EPtX can be activated every 30 sec or even every 15 sec, VM can be easily countered. Not to mention, Engineering Team (ET) removes VM and also a commonly available skill. Against Federation vessels with several human boffs, 6 points into subsystem repair and at least 3 points into Inertial Dampeners, VM I will last less than 1 sec even with maximum points into Subspace Decompiler. Most Klingons and Romulans carry VM I as opposed to VM III therefore, their VMs have almost no effect on a properly spec Federation Starship. I wouldn't recommend any Sci ship to specialize in VM based disable, it is too easily countered in PvP, cost too much and most Escorts are prepared to deal with VM.
PSW III with maximum subspace decompiler can disable for approximately 4 to 5 seconds, assuming the target has 0 Inertial Dampeners skill. With any decent amount of investment into ID, the duration will be cut down by about 30~50%. The PSW After Shock simply radiates after shock from the targeted vessel which may hit other enemy target near it - it has no effect on the initially targeted vessel. PSW can be a decent defensive skill, though as an offensive skill, it doesn't do very much. Some Klingon BoPs use PSW to facilitate double tap. But with the Double Tap going the way of dinosaurs, I see very little if any offensive application with PSW. Note that APO and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners both provide immunity against PSW, another easily countered skill which cost a lot to specialize in.
I think I should have mentioned that PSW is what I use in the event of many pets in the arena. Not so much for other situations. I find that disable spam is most useful to disrupt enemy healing- which this combination does admirably.
VM - I see your point, although I have found success primarily against Romulans or when combined with SNB. It's an attempt to adapt to the shift of many damage dealers to th Romulans. It's not really to spam, but use carefully. Besides EPtS, which VM does not affect anyway, people usually only carry 1 other EPtX. Once that EPtX is used, then is the time to pop the VM. Also, the doff is chance-based, not certain. Also, ET is a bit less common than one might expect - usually, it is healers or triple-ensign-eng cruisers that carry it. Quite simply, disable boats are meta-boats. They do fine now, but they may fall out of favour in future.
It's one of those things that don't look so good on paper, but actually can be quite effective. I usually carry the necessaries for both drain and disable, and switch between them as needed.
I think I should have mentioned that PSW is what I use in the event of many pets in the arena. Not so much for other situations. I find that disable spam is most useful to disrupt enemy healing- which this combination does admirably.
I don't use PSW so my knowledge in this skill is limited. I will defer it to more professional opinions such as yours.
VM - I see your point, although I have found success primarily against Romulans or when combined with SNB. It's an attempt to adapt to the shift of many damage dealers to th Romulans. It's not really to spam, but use carefully. Besides EPtS, which VM does not affect anyway, people usually only carry 1 other EPtX. Once that EPtX is used, then is the time to pop the VM. Also, the doff is chance-based, not certain. Also, ET is a bit less common than one might expect - usually, it is healers or triple-ensign-eng cruisers that carry it. Quite simply, disable boats are meta-boats. They do fine now, but they may fall out of favour in future.
It's one of those things that don't look so good on paper, but actually can be quite effective. I usually carry the necessaries for both drain and disable, and switch between them as needed.
I forgot to mention Warp Core capacitor batteries also repairs disabled system, as do regular batteries. My Wells for example has an Engine Capacitor Battery, which frankly, I never use but it's there in case. In reality, not once I have to rely on it but I like triple even quadruple redundant critical systems, especially engines because everything centers on Speed in STO.
If you can time your VM right after the activation of an EPtX, it can indeed be more effective. In practice however, the vast majority of Klingons and Kromulans like to open with VM as their first decloaked shot, which in my case, often results in a complete waste. As for the purple Romulan Warp Core Engineer, its proc is reliable enough that it's selling for 10s-20s million on the exchange but you are correct, it is not 100% certain. Many Escorts also carry engine power battery because they are fully aware without speed, they are as good as dead.
I did some extensive VM field testing in Kerrat and come to the conclusion that VM is really a hit or miss. Against the elite / very skilled Escorts, it's not effective because they are spec to expect VM. However, against Romulan Warbirds, it can be effective in disabling or preventing them from battlecloaking. But against a Bug ship Escort, not so much. Although I will admit there are occasions I wish I have VM III it's just that there are too many good Sci skills at the Commander level to choose from. GW III can be just as effective in disabling a cloaking Warbird than VM. For example, a Kromulan T'Varo dropping off Aceton Assimilators will only be visible for about 1 sec, almost no time for you to target the ship but if you target the AA with GW III, its AOE will disable the T'Varo's cloak while destroying the AA - two birds in one stone. If you used VM, the T'Varo may activate ET while cloaked, clearing the VM before its Aux is disabled. To each of their own, I am sure some people can make VM work for them.
I don't use PSW so my knowledge in this skill is limited. I will defer it to more professional opinions such as yours.
I forgot to mention Warp Core capacitor batteries also repairs disabled system, as do regular batteries. My Wells for example has an Engine Capacitor Battery, which frankly, I never use but it's there in case. In reality, not once I have to rely on it but I like triple even quadruple redundant critical systems, especially engines because everything centers on Speed in STO.
If you can time your VM right after the activation of an EPtX, it can indeed be more effective. In practice however, the vast majority of Klingons and Kromulans like to open with VM as their first decloaked shot, which in my case, often results in a complete waste. As for the purple Romulan Warp Core Engineer, its proc is reliable enough that it's selling for 10s-20s million on the exchange but you are correct, it is not 100% certain. Many Escorts also carry engine power battery because they are fully aware without speed, they are as good as dead.
I did some extensive VM field testing in Kerrat and come to the conclusion that VM is really a hit or miss. Against the elite / very skilled Escorts, it's not effective because they are spec to expect VM. However, against Romulan Warbirds, it can be effective in disabling or preventing them from battlecloaking. But against a Bug ship Escort, not so much. Although I will admit there are occasions I wish I have VM III it's just that there are too many good Sci skills at the Commander level to choose from. GW III can be just as effective in disabling a cloaking Warbird than VM. For example, a Kromulan T'Varo dropping off Aceton Assimilators will only be visible for about 1 sec, almost no time for you to target the ship but if you target the AA with GW III, its AOE will disable the T'Varo's cloak while destroying the AA - two birds in one stone. If you used VM, the T'Varo may activate ET while cloaked, clearing the VM before its Aux is disabled. To each of their own, I am sure some people can make VM work for them.
Eh, your knowledge is plenty professional. PSW is kind of niche anyways, so don't worry about it. I think what you said about adaptability in science is quite apt. PSW is absolutely useless in some situations, but very effective in others.
The WCE doff has a 40% proc chance. Kind of middling, really. I get the T'Varo scenario, and I agree how VM is not very effective then. However, a long-specced VM also has the bonus of blunting alphas, which really helps survivability. Still, like you said, it's a niche type of build, sometimes not very useful, sometimes very effective. Drain is much more general-purpose, which is why that's my default. However, disable can sometimes be better, which is when I switch.
Then again, I think our experiences might differ quite a bit - I play more arena, rarely Kerrat, so there could be some clashes.
I think I should have mentioned that PSW is what I use in the event of many pets in the arena. Not so much for other situations. I find that disable spam is most useful to disrupt enemy healing- which this combination does admirably.
VM - I see your point, although I have found success primarily against Romulans or when combined with SNB. It's an attempt to adapt to the shift of many damage dealers to th Romulans. It's not really to spam, but use carefully. Besides EPtS, which VM does not affect anyway, people usually only carry 1 other EPtX. Once that EPtX is used, then is the time to pop the VM. Also, the doff is chance-based, not certain. Also, ET is a bit less common than one might expect - usually, it is healers or triple-ensign-eng cruisers that carry it. Quite simply, disable boats are meta-boats. They do fine now, but they may fall out of favour in future.
It's one of those things that don't look so good on paper, but actually can be quite effective. I usually carry the necessaries for both drain and disable, and switch between them as needed.
Yeah, I PvP in a Fleet Norgh and I use VM1 with a blue doff adding extra subsystem effect. It's primarily an 'extra' part of my alphastrike attack, in the off-chance it works and disables something.
The WCE doff has a 40% proc chance. Kind of middling, really. I get the T'Varo scenario, and I agree how VM is not very effective then. However, a long-specced VM also has the bonus of blunting alphas, which really helps survivability. Still, like you said, it's a niche type of build, sometimes not very useful, sometimes very effective. Drain is much more general-purpose, which is why that's my default. However, disable can sometimes be better, which is when I switch.
Then again, I think our experiences might differ quite a bit - I play more arena, rarely Kerrat, so there could be some clashes.
It occurs to me the OP's ship would be particularly vulnerable to Viral Matrix due to an overly high dependence on FBP. All his Sci skills are Aux dependent and all will be disabled or interrupted at 0 Aux. This means a well timed VM, even just a VM I will knock off his Aux, and along with it, interrupting his FBP. He doesn't have EptE or EPtA, no special Warp Core Engineer, no ET, hmm...given many Klingons and Kromulans carry VM I, I'd say the OP needs to take note how vulnerable his build is currently.
You are right about different map offering different experiences. Kerrat has more ambushes and Klingons gank there in number and throw in the Borg for some twists. The Arena is more structured, faster pace and except run in with premades, you should be fairly even in numbers.
Yeah, I PvP in a Fleet Norgh and I use VM1 with a blue doff adding extra subsystem effect. It's primarily an 'extra' part of my alphastrike attack, in the off-chance it works and disables something.
This is what I don't understand : VM I occupies a Lt. Commander Sci slot. In its place, you could have had any of the following powers instead : TSS III, Tractor Beam III, Energy Siphon II, GW I, PH III, FBP II
Knowing that your Federation targets are particularly resistant towards VM due to human boffs alone, what's the point of wasting a Lt. Commander Sci slot hoping for the unlikely scenario where someone who doesn't know what they are doing or a newbie doing PvP will actually even be affected by the VM I? Your ship is already one boff station short than other Fleet ships, it seems like a waste to have VM I. And why the blue doff in lieu of the purple one? The System Engineer for VM is very cheap, there are even farmed versions available for free via doffing. Even then, a purple one only has what, 25% chance of actually proc, the blue one even less.
Still, I have to give kudos to anyone who still has the courage of flying a BoP. Given the Double Tap going away soon, the BoPs would probably serve better as transports than combat vessels.
Had no idea so many PvP'er carried a copy of VM
Good to know...
I also figure SubSysTarget Aux would be almost as effective in rendering me useless for some several seconds...
I'm thinking of adjusting the batteries I carry in that case...perhaps swapping out the engine batt, and utilizing the dual battery devices ("Aux/Engine battery"...if there is one is available..not sure on what dual batteries can be bought, but i think I've seen Aux/Engine Batts on the exchange.
Or maybe EmPwr2Aux might be the better option...in place of EmPwr2SH...
Thanks again for the interesting insight guys. This is a wonderful discussion..
I think this thread is becoming a great read for Sci captains looking for in depth information. And other Captains who wish to nullify a tough sci build.
Awesome...
Still, I have to give kudos to anyone who still has the courage of flying a BoP. Given the Double Tap going away soon, the BoPs would probably serve better as transports than combat vessels.
I'm planning to swap my beam overload for a quantum/transphasic (I need to figure out which does best) hy3 on my bop when the doubletap ends... it might not be as powerful as a bo double tap, but it should do a nice amount of hull/shield damage, I hope...
I am beginning to get the feeling though bops are turning into the proverbial 'free frags' but I'll stick with them until the bitter end as I love the ability to completely redesign my ships purpose on a whim (dual fbp torp boat/mine spammer was an amusing, if impractical build)
I am beginning to get the feeling though bops are turning into the proverbial 'free frags' but I'll stick with them until the bitter end as I love the ability to completely redesign my ships purpose on a whim (dual fbp torp boat/mine spammer was an amusing, if impractical build)
Ditto. I have a B'rel and I fly it like a vulture. These changes will only make me to fly it as an even bigger vulture than before. I love battlecruisers best, but I'm not giving up on my BoPs till the bitter end, like you said. They are a Klingon classic and flying them is fun like hell.
I did have one question..
Its in reguards to a skill that has been used against my sci build...
It is very troubling in certain situations...but I don't know what skill it is.
Ill describe it and maybe someone can enlighten me on what it is...
Description:
Everything is going great, then, All of a sudden, all my skills in the tray go black, except ST2 and ST3...
I seem to be covered in a dark cloud, and can't see anything around me... It effectively leaves me blind and disabled for ..i dunno, maybe 10 secs or so
Im gonna guess this is maybe VM ???
Or is this Sub Nuke being used on me ?
The other theory I had is that it is some kind of Romulan skill
Was just curious what this skill was because I noticed its one of the better counters I've come across...
The blackening out of all skills leads me to believe it's SubNuke...I dunno know tho, while all this is happening I am disabled and will usually take an engine battery and use a sci team ..just to get out of this bad situation...
Kinda leads me to believe its some combo of skills being applied...
But maybe its just VM ???
Was it recently?
Sounds like that Elachi Weapon/Console (can't remember what it was) but that was already Uselessified by Cryptic if I remember correctly... if not it will come with the next patches
I did have one question..
Its in reguards to a skill that has been used against my sci build...
It is very troubling in certain situations...but I don't know what skill it is.
Ill describe it and maybe someone can enlighten me on what it is...
Description:
Everything is going great, then, All of a sudden, all my skills in the tray go black, except ST2 and ST3...
I seem to be covered in a dark cloud, and can't see anything around me... It effectively leaves me blind and disabled for ..i dunno, maybe 10 secs or so
Im gonna guess this is maybe VM ???
Or is this Sub Nuke being used on me ?
The other theory I had is that it is some kind of Romulan skill
Was just curious what this skill was because I noticed its one of the better counters I've come across...
The blackening out of all skills leads me to believe it's SubNuke...I dunno know tho, while all this is happening I am disabled and will usually take an engine battery and use a sci team ..just to get out of this bad situation...
Kinda leads me to believe its some combo of skills being applied...
But maybe its just VM ???
That was probably the SIC console before it was changed. All it does now is disable only weapons, but still leaves you in darkness plus still a hold/slow effect thing. It used to hold you and then disable EVERYTHING pretty much.
Though someone could still be using the SIC console and adding in a disable like a tric torp/mine, a PSW, or something else.
Or it could be the Singularity Jump thing, which is also a slow/hold and reduces some other stuff because it drops a Singularity from a Romulan ship. And again, could also be adding a disable.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
It's a skill I've been seeing recently (maybe since the Lauch of LoR..or a little after)
Was just wondering about it..
It's been my observation that this is a pretty effective skill vs my Sci...
It seems my shields drop much quicker when stuck in that cloud...Like ALOT quicker...
If I dont get out of there fast enough (with ST and Engine Batt)...I'm a sitting duck, and my goose gets cooked.
Kax would like thos thread, he loves his FBP too. But if you love FBP good for you, good for trolling kerrat and weaker Pug players. Come Premades, you'd be cannon fodder, you lose two slots for healing if you think you can heal your friends effectively.
It's great for 1vs 1, but not a team build.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The bird of prey (the klingon version, at least) is unique in sto as all its seating is universal, thus letting the players set it up in often unpredictable fashion, albeit often used for is battlecloak alphas (another way of terming the attack where you use every buff and basically try to one shot your opponent)
Of low hull and low shield, but fast (only the corvette goes faster afaik) with a decent turn rate; its the proverbial 'jack of all trades, master of none' of sto, able to configure itself as pure dps or a mean sci ability slinger, should the player optimse its speed to allow hit and run assaults
It even works well as a healboat in kerrat, I've found, decloaking, hitting a 'heal alpha' (tss, eng team, he and whatever else comes to mind) then escaping to recloak
Only problem is with the power creep, the double beam overload technique being nerfed/fixed (depending on if you use or recieve it) and the romulans, the razor blade that is the humble bop is slowly, but surely dulling
edit: Beaten to the punch...ah well, hope my explanation helps
I'm planning to swap my beam overload for a quantum/transphasic (I need to figure out which does best) hy3 on my bop when the doubletap ends... it might not be as powerful as a bo double tap, but it should do a nice amount of hull/shield damage, I hope...
I am beginning to get the feeling though bops are turning into the proverbial 'free frags' but I'll stick with them until the bitter end as I love the ability to completely redesign my ships purpose on a whim (dual fbp torp boat/mine spammer was an amusing, if impractical build)
I use a BO3 + HY3 setup on my Fleet Norgh, using quantum torpedoes with Accx3. The big thing you have to keep in mind is that quantum torpedoes are absolutely useless against shields. If the enemy only has a thin red line of shield HP left, it MIGHT somehow punch through and do the damage you want. A lot of times nowadays, I have to settle for that. With all the blasted passive heals and higher resists the devs have foolishly thrown into the game, it's now much more difficult to keep shields completely down. Even after a nice BO3 crit, I've seen people keep a red line of shields still there. That may be all that's needed to stop a torp attack. Or, they can simply turn their ship and present a fresh facing to you, rendering your torpedo useless because it will hit THAT facing rather than the facing you intended it to hit.
I've been thinking of switching over to a cluster torp and seeing how well that performs, that's how badly my quantums have been performing lately. Having lag TRIBBLE up my timing doesn't help, either. I think when I buy a Fleet B'rel Retrofit, that will become my PvP ship. . .the regular battlecloaking BoPs can't really cut it nowadays due to the power creep and the Romulans out-doing everything BoPs traditionally did.
I use a BO3 + HY3 setup on my Fleet Norgh, using quantum torpedoes with Accx3. The big thing you have to keep in mind is that quantum torpedoes are absolutely useless against shields. If the enemy only has a thin red line of shield HP left, it MIGHT somehow punch through and do the damage you want. A lot of times nowadays, I have to settle for that. With all the blasted passive heals and higher resists the devs have foolishly thrown into the game, it's now much more difficult to keep shields completely down. Even after a nice BO3 crit, I've seen people keep a red line of shields still there. That may be all that's needed to stop a torp attack. Or, they can simply turn their ship and present a fresh facing to you, rendering your torpedo useless because it will hit THAT facing rather than the facing you intended it to hit.
I've been thinking of switching over to a cluster torp and seeing how well that performs, that's how badly my quantums have been performing lately. Having lag TRIBBLE up my timing doesn't help, either. I think when I buy a Fleet B'rel Retrofit, that will become my PvP ship. . .the regular battlecloaking BoPs can't really cut it nowadays due to the power creep and the Romulans out-doing everything BoPs traditionally did.
The "sliver of shields" mechanic is why torpedoes suck and the old tactic of drop shields forst and time your torps came from.
Frankly the mechanic needs to be changed so shields resist kinetic damage based on strength instead of being a flat resistance that os always the same.
Its exactly how we saw it work in the movies and TV shows.
Full shields = full resistance levels
Half shields = 50% resistance levels
Quarter shields = 25% resistance levels
Well you get the idea...... A sliver of shields should not offer full kinetic protection.
It's because they're not used to losing so they lash out. Consider their insults a compliment and be proud of yourself for breaking the "tac DPS escort pwns everything" pattern STO has gotten into lately.
Tacs in this game are severely threatened by anything that pretends to hint at the possibility of maybe having the potential to topple their superiority.
That's why everytime there's any talk of buffing Scis or Engs, they will show up in the thread in droves and basically flame-spam the discussion into submission.
The "sliver of shields" mechanic is why torpedoes suck and the old tactic of drop shields forst and time your torps came from.
Frankly the mechanic needs to be changed so shields resist kinetic damage based on strength instead of being a flat resistance that os always the same.
Its exactly how we saw it work in the movies and TV shows.
Full shields = full resistance levels
Half shields = 50% resistance levels
Quarter shields = 25% resistance levels
Well you get the idea...... A sliver of shields should not offer full kinetic protection.
Not a religious guy, but amen! However, I think that any shielding, even a sliver should produce no less than 50% and trail upwards as a bleed through.
So 1% shield should still provide at least 50% resist which is more than fair. Unfortunately the reputation skills simply don't really have the largest impacts.
Tacs in this game are severely threatened by anything that pretends to hint at the possibility of maybe having the potential to topple their superiority.
That's why everytime there's any talk of buffing Scis or Engs, they will show up in the thread in droves and basically flame-spam the discussion into submission.
That sounds racist. J/K.. It does sound classist though. I'm primarily Tac, extremely good at it and I'm not threatened in the slightest. I'm actually fond of this thread and have been reading it for days.
My second love is sci but found some snippets of information in here to be quite valuable. 1 crabby apple does not a crab apple tree make
I use a BO3 + HY3 setup on my Fleet Norgh, using quantum torpedoes with Accx3. The big thing you have to keep in mind is that quantum torpedoes are absolutely useless against shields. If the enemy only has a thin red line of shield HP left, it MIGHT somehow punch through and do the damage you want. A lot of times nowadays, I have to settle for that. With all the blasted passive heals and higher resists the devs have foolishly thrown into the game, it's now much more difficult to keep shields completely down. Even after a nice BO3 crit, I've seen people keep a red line of shields still there. That may be all that's needed to stop a torp attack. Or, they can simply turn their ship and present a fresh facing to you, rendering your torpedo useless because it will hit THAT facing rather than the facing you intended it to hit.
I've been thinking of switching over to a cluster torp and seeing how well that performs, that's how badly my quantums have been performing lately. Having lag TRIBBLE up my timing doesn't help, either. I think when I buy a Fleet B'rel Retrofit, that will become my PvP ship. . .the regular battlecloaking BoPs can't really cut it nowadays due to the power creep and the Romulans out-doing everything BoPs traditionally did.
Agreed. That's why I'm starting to lean toward energy-only proc modifications. With all these passive shield heals it's like the completely glazed over the fact that they've only alienated torpedoes into a lesser-than category. I have been slowly stowing my torpedoes for months. It's not as fun losing the big bang side to my builds but there are a few exceptional benefits.
That's why my vesta will dawn a new array of sci skills soon. Going to be going for a drain/syphon/fbp variation with heavy inclinations toward tetryon. Going to see if I can bring back some white lightning
Agreed. That's why I'm starting to lean toward energy-only proc modifications. With all these passive shield heals it's like the completely glazed over the fact that they've only alienated torpedoes into a lesser-than category. I have been slowly stowing my torpedoes for months. It's not as fun losing the big bang side to my builds but there are a few exceptional benefits.
That's why my vesta will dawn a new array of sci skills soon. Going to be going for a drain/syphon/fbp variation with heavy inclinations toward tetryon. Going to see if I can bring back some white lightning
Well, I tried using torps and even a hy3'd transphasic is dirt poor except against bops due to hull...I'm trying so hard to find another option but I'm beginning to think 4dhc+ dem2 is the only path now open to a bop to cause enough damage to an opponent in a hit and run scenario
Well, I tried using torps and even a hy3'd transphasic is dirt poor except against bops due to hull...I'm trying so hard to find another option but I'm beginning to think 4dhc+ dem2 is the only path now open to a bop to cause enough damage to an opponent in a hit and run scenario
Seems like they just need to net all the advancements together and allow us to augment what we want for the benefits we're looking for. So many of these skills come with a feel of nerfed results. Photonic shockwave for instance, with maxed decompiler/graviton/PG and even a full compliment of active space doffs is a joke. You have to hope that at least most of your surrounding targets have no shields to even have an impact. It may knock one or two baddies offline shortly but I'm just appalled.
Comments
Another question, and this is because I'd have to rerun my tests at different levels of power insulators and while leaving flow caps static at different skill levels to figure it out, but does anyone know the relationship between power insulators and flow capacitors in this game equation wise? Not exactly the easiest to figure out with all the rounding in this game (Which you can clearly see when you get drained and some power levels go down for example 12 and others 13).
Thank you for the great tips and suggestions.
I've kind of learned everything in bits and pieces, and from fleet mates, here and there. So it's very helpful to get some informed information.
Thanks for the in-depth review.
I didn't realize TSS was a better healer then ST, ill have to look into some adjustments...learn something new everyday...
And yeah I had just noticed the other day that TT shares a CD with ST.. so that was something else I had intended on adjusting.
Awesome info
Will add the provided links to my reading list.
\\//_
L L & P
I think I should have mentioned that PSW is what I use in the event of many pets in the arena. Not so much for other situations. I find that disable spam is most useful to disrupt enemy healing- which this combination does admirably.
VM - I see your point, although I have found success primarily against Romulans or when combined with SNB. It's an attempt to adapt to the shift of many damage dealers to th Romulans. It's not really to spam, but use carefully. Besides EPtS, which VM does not affect anyway, people usually only carry 1 other EPtX. Once that EPtX is used, then is the time to pop the VM. Also, the doff is chance-based, not certain. Also, ET is a bit less common than one might expect - usually, it is healers or triple-ensign-eng cruisers that carry it. Quite simply, disable boats are meta-boats. They do fine now, but they may fall out of favour in future.
It's one of those things that don't look so good on paper, but actually can be quite effective. I usually carry the necessaries for both drain and disable, and switch between them as needed.
I don't use PSW so my knowledge in this skill is limited. I will defer it to more professional opinions such as yours.
I forgot to mention Warp Core capacitor batteries also repairs disabled system, as do regular batteries. My Wells for example has an Engine Capacitor Battery, which frankly, I never use but it's there in case. In reality, not once I have to rely on it but I like triple even quadruple redundant critical systems, especially engines because everything centers on Speed in STO.
If you can time your VM right after the activation of an EPtX, it can indeed be more effective. In practice however, the vast majority of Klingons and Kromulans like to open with VM as their first decloaked shot, which in my case, often results in a complete waste. As for the purple Romulan Warp Core Engineer, its proc is reliable enough that it's selling for 10s-20s million on the exchange but you are correct, it is not 100% certain. Many Escorts also carry engine power battery because they are fully aware without speed, they are as good as dead.
I did some extensive VM field testing in Kerrat and come to the conclusion that VM is really a hit or miss. Against the elite / very skilled Escorts, it's not effective because they are spec to expect VM. However, against Romulan Warbirds, it can be effective in disabling or preventing them from battlecloaking. But against a Bug ship Escort, not so much. Although I will admit there are occasions I wish I have VM III it's just that there are too many good Sci skills at the Commander level to choose from. GW III can be just as effective in disabling a cloaking Warbird than VM. For example, a Kromulan T'Varo dropping off Aceton Assimilators will only be visible for about 1 sec, almost no time for you to target the ship but if you target the AA with GW III, its AOE will disable the T'Varo's cloak while destroying the AA - two birds in one stone. If you used VM, the T'Varo may activate ET while cloaked, clearing the VM before its Aux is disabled. To each of their own, I am sure some people can make VM work for them.
Eh, your knowledge is plenty professional. PSW is kind of niche anyways, so don't worry about it. I think what you said about adaptability in science is quite apt. PSW is absolutely useless in some situations, but very effective in others.
The WCE doff has a 40% proc chance. Kind of middling, really. I get the T'Varo scenario, and I agree how VM is not very effective then. However, a long-specced VM also has the bonus of blunting alphas, which really helps survivability. Still, like you said, it's a niche type of build, sometimes not very useful, sometimes very effective. Drain is much more general-purpose, which is why that's my default. However, disable can sometimes be better, which is when I switch.
Then again, I think our experiences might differ quite a bit - I play more arena, rarely Kerrat, so there could be some clashes.
Yeah, I PvP in a Fleet Norgh and I use VM1 with a blue doff adding extra subsystem effect. It's primarily an 'extra' part of my alphastrike attack, in the off-chance it works and disables something.
It occurs to me the OP's ship would be particularly vulnerable to Viral Matrix due to an overly high dependence on FBP. All his Sci skills are Aux dependent and all will be disabled or interrupted at 0 Aux. This means a well timed VM, even just a VM I will knock off his Aux, and along with it, interrupting his FBP. He doesn't have EptE or EPtA, no special Warp Core Engineer, no ET, hmm...given many Klingons and Kromulans carry VM I, I'd say the OP needs to take note how vulnerable his build is currently.
You are right about different map offering different experiences. Kerrat has more ambushes and Klingons gank there in number and throw in the Borg for some twists. The Arena is more structured, faster pace and except run in with premades, you should be fairly even in numbers.
This is what I don't understand : VM I occupies a Lt. Commander Sci slot. In its place, you could have had any of the following powers instead : TSS III, Tractor Beam III, Energy Siphon II, GW I, PH III, FBP II
Knowing that your Federation targets are particularly resistant towards VM due to human boffs alone, what's the point of wasting a Lt. Commander Sci slot hoping for the unlikely scenario where someone who doesn't know what they are doing or a newbie doing PvP will actually even be affected by the VM I? Your ship is already one boff station short than other Fleet ships, it seems like a waste to have VM I. And why the blue doff in lieu of the purple one? The System Engineer for VM is very cheap, there are even farmed versions available for free via doffing. Even then, a purple one only has what, 25% chance of actually proc, the blue one even less.
Still, I have to give kudos to anyone who still has the courage of flying a BoP. Given the Double Tap going away soon, the BoPs would probably serve better as transports than combat vessels.
Good to know...
I also figure SubSysTarget Aux would be almost as effective in rendering me useless for some several seconds...
I'm thinking of adjusting the batteries I carry in that case...perhaps swapping out the engine batt, and utilizing the dual battery devices ("Aux/Engine battery"...if there is one is available..not sure on what dual batteries can be bought, but i think I've seen Aux/Engine Batts on the exchange.
Or maybe EmPwr2Aux might be the better option...in place of EmPwr2SH...
Thanks again for the interesting insight guys. This is a wonderful discussion..
I think this thread is becoming a great read for Sci captains looking for in depth information. And other Captains who wish to nullify a tough sci build.
Awesome...
I'm planning to swap my beam overload for a quantum/transphasic (I need to figure out which does best) hy3 on my bop when the doubletap ends... it might not be as powerful as a bo double tap, but it should do a nice amount of hull/shield damage, I hope...
I am beginning to get the feeling though bops are turning into the proverbial 'free frags' but I'll stick with them until the bitter end as I love the ability to completely redesign my ships purpose on a whim (dual fbp torp boat/mine spammer was an amusing, if impractical build)
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Ditto.
Its in reguards to a skill that has been used against my sci build...
It is very troubling in certain situations...but I don't know what skill it is.
Ill describe it and maybe someone can enlighten me on what it is...
Description:
Everything is going great, then, All of a sudden, all my skills in the tray go black, except ST2 and ST3...
I seem to be covered in a dark cloud, and can't see anything around me... It effectively leaves me blind and disabled for ..i dunno, maybe 10 secs or so
Im gonna guess this is maybe VM ???
Or is this Sub Nuke being used on me ?
The other theory I had is that it is some kind of Romulan skill
Was just curious what this skill was because I noticed its one of the better counters I've come across...
The blackening out of all skills leads me to believe it's SubNuke...I dunno know tho, while all this is happening I am disabled and will usually take an engine battery and use a sci team ..just to get out of this bad situation...
Kinda leads me to believe its some combo of skills being applied...
But maybe its just VM ???
Sounds like that Elachi Weapon/Console (can't remember what it was) but that was already Uselessified by Cryptic if I remember correctly... if not it will come with the next patches
That was probably the SIC console before it was changed. All it does now is disable only weapons, but still leaves you in darkness plus still a hold/slow effect thing. It used to hold you and then disable EVERYTHING pretty much.
Though someone could still be using the SIC console and adding in a disable like a tric torp/mine, a PSW, or something else.
Or it could be the Singularity Jump thing, which is also a slow/hold and reduces some other stuff because it drops a Singularity from a Romulan ship. And again, could also be adding a disable.
Most likely though is the SIC console.
It's a skill I've been seeing recently (maybe since the Lauch of LoR..or a little after)
Was just wondering about it..
It's been my observation that this is a pretty effective skill vs my Sci...
It seems my shields drop much quicker when stuck in that cloud...Like ALOT quicker...
If I dont get out of there fast enough (with ST and Engine Batt)...I'm a sitting duck, and my goose gets cooked.
It's great for 1vs 1, but not a team build.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
What do you guys mean by BoP... ??
Tried to google it and came up with Bind on Pickup, but Im assuming you guys are reffering to something else ?
That would be a Bird of Prey. :P
Bird of Prey, as in: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Raider
the archetypal one is the b'rel
http://sto.gamepedia.com/B%27rel_Bird-of-Prey
The bird of prey (the klingon version, at least) is unique in sto as all its seating is universal, thus letting the players set it up in often unpredictable fashion, albeit often used for is battlecloak alphas (another way of terming the attack where you use every buff and basically try to one shot your opponent)
Of low hull and low shield, but fast (only the corvette goes faster afaik) with a decent turn rate; its the proverbial 'jack of all trades, master of none' of sto, able to configure itself as pure dps or a mean sci ability slinger, should the player optimse its speed to allow hit and run assaults
It even works well as a healboat in kerrat, I've found, decloaking, hitting a 'heal alpha' (tss, eng team, he and whatever else comes to mind) then escaping to recloak
Only problem is with the power creep, the double beam overload technique being nerfed/fixed (depending on if you use or recieve it) and the romulans, the razor blade that is the humble bop is slowly, but surely dulling
edit: Beaten to the punch...ah well, hope my explanation helps
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I use a BO3 + HY3 setup on my Fleet Norgh, using quantum torpedoes with Accx3. The big thing you have to keep in mind is that quantum torpedoes are absolutely useless against shields. If the enemy only has a thin red line of shield HP left, it MIGHT somehow punch through and do the damage you want. A lot of times nowadays, I have to settle for that. With all the blasted passive heals and higher resists the devs have foolishly thrown into the game, it's now much more difficult to keep shields completely down. Even after a nice BO3 crit, I've seen people keep a red line of shields still there. That may be all that's needed to stop a torp attack. Or, they can simply turn their ship and present a fresh facing to you, rendering your torpedo useless because it will hit THAT facing rather than the facing you intended it to hit.
I've been thinking of switching over to a cluster torp and seeing how well that performs, that's how badly my quantums have been performing lately. Having lag TRIBBLE up my timing doesn't help, either. I think when I buy a Fleet B'rel Retrofit, that will become my PvP ship. . .the regular battlecloaking BoPs can't really cut it nowadays due to the power creep and the Romulans out-doing everything BoPs traditionally did.
Frankly the mechanic needs to be changed so shields resist kinetic damage based on strength instead of being a flat resistance that os always the same.
Its exactly how we saw it work in the movies and TV shows.
Full shields = full resistance levels
Half shields = 50% resistance levels
Quarter shields = 25% resistance levels
Well you get the idea...... A sliver of shields should not offer full kinetic protection.
R.I.P
i approve this message
...................rotflmao
That's why everytime there's any talk of buffing Scis or Engs, they will show up in the thread in droves and basically flame-spam the discussion into submission.
Not a religious guy, but amen! However, I think that any shielding, even a sliver should produce no less than 50% and trail upwards as a bleed through.
So 1% shield should still provide at least 50% resist which is more than fair. Unfortunately the reputation skills simply don't really have the largest impacts.
Not sure if cryptic will really get that message.
That sounds racist. J/K.. It does sound classist though. I'm primarily Tac, extremely good at it and I'm not threatened in the slightest. I'm actually fond of this thread and have been reading it for days.
My second love is sci but found some snippets of information in here to be quite valuable. 1 crabby apple does not a crab apple tree make
Agreed. That's why I'm starting to lean toward energy-only proc modifications. With all these passive shield heals it's like the completely glazed over the fact that they've only alienated torpedoes into a lesser-than category. I have been slowly stowing my torpedoes for months. It's not as fun losing the big bang side to my builds but there are a few exceptional benefits.
That's why my vesta will dawn a new array of sci skills soon. Going to be going for a drain/syphon/fbp variation with heavy inclinations toward tetryon. Going to see if I can bring back some white lightning
Well, I tried using torps and even a hy3'd transphasic is dirt poor except against bops due to hull...I'm trying so hard to find another option but I'm beginning to think 4dhc+ dem2 is the only path now open to a bop to cause enough damage to an opponent in a hit and run scenario
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Seems like they just need to net all the advancements together and allow us to augment what we want for the benefits we're looking for. So many of these skills come with a feel of nerfed results. Photonic shockwave for instance, with maxed decompiler/graviton/PG and even a full compliment of active space doffs is a joke. You have to hope that at least most of your surrounding targets have no shields to even have an impact. It may knock one or two baddies offline shortly but I'm just appalled.
Thank you !!!