Oh I know how it works... it was your futile attempt to discredit my post that lead you to believe I only meant [Captain Abilities], while I meant ALL...
Still... I write it out for you, with a Science Captain as an Example:
Please substitute [Science] and [Not Science] with whatever suits your character/s ([Tactical]/[Not Tactical], [Engineering]/[Not Engineering])...
That is a truly awful idea. Terribad even. There is no reason to try to pigeon-hole players at this point in the game's life cycle.
Sci may have a one or two real builds that can be effective, build like the op's is a likely try and kill the Sci and likely die or avoid them to a lame stalemate...working as intended?
The other is a disable build which I haven't tried much of but I hear good things.
But look at the wide variety of abilities Sci has but most of them are weak and easily avoidable or just simply shrugged off.
Science has more unused or ineffective abilities than any the other two classes of abilities.
well if they useless tell Cryptic to remove them from the game...
Well, honestly guys...what other choice does a Sci have... ?
If your not using FBP against a tac you are screwed...yes you could heal forever.
But thats boring and leads to 100% stalemates...
Im talking about killing Tacs...which I do. The only way (in a sci ship with 3-3 weapon layouts) is with the help of FBP....there is no other way...So don't get mad at a sci for using the one valueable skill in a PvP situation
All the other skills are useless...
Someone asked for my build:
I focused on Sheild Skills and maxed Particle Generators.
6 skill points into hull and warp core abilities
6 skill points into Energy weapon skills
the rest is up to you....
Wells Class:
3 fore: 2 Rom DBBs XII + Hyper Plasma Torp
3 Rear: 1 Rom EXP Beam Array + Cutting Beam + Omega Torp
Consoles
Engi: Tachy Console + Assimilated Module + Zero Point
Sci: 4x Plasma infused/Particle Generator consoles XII
Tact: 3 x 30% Plasma Tac Consoles
Or VS the heaviest of hitters:
Engi: 3 x DIL Mine Resistance Consoles XII
Sci: 4x Plasma infused/Particle Generator consoles XII
Tact: Tachy Console + Assimilated Module + Zero Point
Elite Warp Core - with Shield Boost/ and shield regen
Omega Deflector ---> (+Particle Generators skill)
Omega Sheilds
Jem Hadar XII Engines
If someone is giving me big troubles...well then Ill throw on the Shield Generator +17% shield capacity... x2 if I have too.
Batteries: Wep/Shield/Engine
The key to this build is 3x Purple FBP doffs (3 is the max) *
Anyway this build really hurts tacs... and all I hear is negative comments....meanwhile I'm dealing with constant CRF.....and you guys tell me FBP is lame...
You know what's lame... a warbird sneaking up to you point blank, dropping cloak, and unloading on your unsuspecting ship...well...guess what, that doesnt work on me anymore, one tap of FBP3 will immediatly take out their front sheild and drop there hull down to 55% before the CRF has ended. Then I just finish him off with BO, HYPERFLUX EXP beam Shot, Sub system Target Shields, Engines, Weapons....
Usually if the Tac captain isnt too bright, he'll try another volley, but hasn't anticipated my FBP2...., that will usually do it...I just mop up the rest.
Boff Layout
HAZ EM 1/2
FBP3/2
ST3/2
EMPow2Shields
Transfer Shield Strength
Polarize hull 1/2
Beam Overload 2
Tac Team 1
Hyperflux EXP Rom Beam Skill
Its a solid build.... I made it because I was sick of Burst DMG Tacs/ in bugs...and it solves that problem and then some...
because a captain is just that, 'the captain' ....
it is the 'crew' that makes the best use of the ships capabilities....
(ex: it's the engineering team that makes an engine perform better... or, the scientific division that makes the best use of any "sophisticated Computers, Sensors and Deflectors" as you put it ..... not the captain.)
so yeah....good luck with that.
As I already said... An Escort is build to perfom tactical maneuvres and will perfom better at them as a Starcruiser for example... no matter if it is a veteran crew or fresh from the academy...
As I already said... An Escort is build to perfom tactical maneuvres and will perfom better at them as a Starcruiser for example... no matter if it is a veteran crew or fresh from the academy.
BS..... a veteran crew will always outperform newbies ....that is why there are white, green, blue and purple doffs, consoles, and systems. ( the colors correspond to the training/experience the crew/item has ...drrrrr )
Thanks for posting this... Maybe that will sh.. silence some of the people claiming Sci's are useless.
No seriously... Thanks.
He's got every fleet item imaginable, the best goodies from the rep trees, and very expensive purple doffs. Sci's might be able to reach parity at that point but only at that point. Don't try to claim that they aren't useless from level 1 to 50 or any other time before you've reached that point. If you have to have all the fleet goodies and a lobi ship to be a decent sci, that's not enough, sorry.
BS..... a veteran crew will always outperform newbies ....that is why there are white, green, blue and purple doffs, consoles, and systems. ( the colors correspond to the training/experience the crew/item has ...drrrrr )
you 'have' had elaborations in this thread ... you are just choosing to ignore them.
it's a bad idea, and you were told why..... deal with it..
.
Okay... so you're telling me it absolutely OK and logical that an Odyssey is as nimble and fast in Combat as a... Defiant and that the Defiant will perform better at scientific endeavours, using its Deflector and Sensors, than the Luna Class, got it!
Okay... so you're telling me it absolutely OK and logical that an Odyssey is as nimble and fast in Combat as a... Defiant and that the Defiant will perform better at scientific endeavours, using its Deflector and Sensors, than the Luna Class, got it!
rp =/= game mechanics
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Okay... so you're telling me it absolutely OK and logical that an Odyssey is as nimble and fast in Combat as a... Defiant and that the Defiant will perform better at scientific endeavours, using its Deflector and Sensors, than the Luna Class, got it!
I said nothing of the sort....'you' did.
.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Somebody made the point that sci's are bsically useless until they can afford end game gear...
This is unfortunatly more true then false..
A Great Sci build (can be) is very expensive...
As well, someone asked about the FBP Doffs..
Again, they can be found in the Romulan Doff Packs, or on the exchange for about 1.5 - 2.5 mill
(Purple FBP Doffs)
I think the Blue FBP Doffs are about 150 -250k ..so that's much more affordable. Its somewhere to start...
3 is the maximum you can use...so
3 blue FBP Doffs will cost you maximum...750k... not terrible...
The only difference in the purple and blue doff is the % chance to inflict Resistance loss on the target...
Blue has a 10% chance
Purples have a 12% chance
No you did not... but you condone the Status Quo... which currently is exactly as I've written in my half sarcastic-half annoyed post...
And I've not even started with RP rylanadionysis and quite frankly I don't even want to because I am sure you are not willing to appreciate it.
But yeah... I must admit I made an Error... I've called up the Odyssey in my post which is indeed a completely different horse being flagship and all... please replace it with a generic Engineering Ship...
Development Lab Scientists obtained from the Romulan Fleet Doff Pack.
"Whilst FBP is active, each pulse has a 3/6/9/12% chance to reduce your attacker's resistance rating by 15, for 8 seconds"
The blues cost ~2mil EC (cheapest I saw was under 200k though; the cheapest purple currently as of 2:18 EST was 15 mill EC
...
I know, it was bugging me too.
15 Million for Purple FBP DOFFS !!!! NO WAY !!!
When I bought them about 2 weeks ago they were selling for 2 million !
I guess they went up in price, sorry for the old information...
2 mil for blues...does seem way too pricey...
I swear two weeks ago purples were 2 - 3 mil....Blues were 1.5K - 2.5k.....
If all the classes in STO were on the same playing field everyone would be rolling Science Toons and I don?t think that there?s a Science Captain out there that would deny this statement was truth.
With the above being said, I don?t think the Cryptic will ever truly find a solution to bring what could be seen has balance to the classes in STO
I?m an old School Science Captain here in STO and I remember how one sided Science was when compared to Engineering and Tactical.
Anyone remember how broken Viral Matrix was when STO launched?
Viral Matrix was literally the ?I Win Button? and it deserved to be killed with the fire it was hit with.
It only took a week after the Death of Viral Matrix for Science Captains to find setups that could be equally OP has VM and for me that setup was:
Photonic Shockwave 3, Gravity Well 1, Energy Siphon 1 and Tractor Beam
Many other Science Captains used similar builds to the above but the heart of the Combo was always Photonic Shockwave which lead to PS undergoing the VM lobotomy.
After Photonic Shockwave got hit most Science Captains turned to using combo skills that could be used with Gravity Well 3 and the cries for nerfs began again.
The problem with Science was that many of our Skills were pretty effective on their own but were down right deadly when we were able to combo them with some of our other skills and that is what lead to Cryptic essentially halving the effectiveness of all Science Skills and leaving us where we are today.
I don?t envy the position that Cryptic is in when it comes to Science and for that matter Engineering.
If they give Science abilities a too much power and we?ll find a combo that will dominate the other classes, leave us where we are and we?ll never stop complaining about how underpowered we are verses Tactical and Engineering.
The Same argument could be made for Cruisers.
Could you imagine if Cruisers had just 80% of the DPS that Escorts could kick out to go with their superior tanking abilities, they would be damn near impossible to take out without numbers.
I think that Tactical Escorts just ended up being the benefactors of being the lesser of the 3 evils and also being the most simplistic of the builds to spec for greatly helped has well.
I think Cryptic believes that they have found a solution to the Science problem and that seems to be keeping our individual skills near useless unless we fully spec into them to make them mediocre and then we need to add specific doffs to the mix to make the one ability that we choose decent.
I?m glad that the OP has found a Science Setup that?s effective for PVP but now I fear that the cries for nerf will come not for FBP but for the Doffs that power it.
Disables:
Key: Spec heavily into Subspace Decompiler.
Run the new Elachi lobi console that gives bonus to it. Chain VM3 and VM1 back-to-back. Run VM spread and repeat disable doffs. Combine with SNB for maximum benefit.
VM is not terribly useful in PvP for a few reasons. EPtX each repairs one of the disabled subsystems, notably EPtE will repair disabled engines. VM's punch is stopping an enemy dead but the activation of EPtE alone repairs the engine disable. It doesn't matter if you have 300 in Subspace Decompiler skill in a VM III or not, the engine disable will be gone. Furthermore, the Romulan doff that clears all debuffs upon activation of EPtX will also instantly clear VM. So by simply pressing EPtE, which many PvPers have these days, it will be guaranteed to repair Engines + a good chance of getting rid of VM completely. So heavy investment into VM can be made totally useless easily. Because VM have GCD of 30 sec, even with 2 copies whereas EPtE or any EPtX can be activated every 30 sec or even every 15 sec, VM can be easily countered. Not to mention, Engineering Team (ET) removes VM and also a commonly available skill. Against Federation vessels with several human boffs, 6 points into subsystem repair and at least 3 points into Inertial Dampeners, VM I will last less than 1 sec even with maximum points into Subspace Decompiler. Most Klingons and Romulans carry VM I as opposed to VM III therefore, their VMs have almost no effect on a properly spec Federation Starship. I wouldn't recommend any Sci ship to specialize in VM based disable, it is too easily countered in PvP, cost too much and most Escorts are prepared to deal with VM.
Photonic Shockwave. Run the aftershock doffs. Spec into particle gens as well for this.
PSW III with maximum subspace decompiler can disable for approximately 4 to 5 seconds, assuming the target has 0 Inertial Dampeners skill. With any decent amount of investment into ID, the duration will be cut down by about 30~50%. The PSW After Shock simply radiates after shock from the targeted vessel which may hit other enemy target near it - it has no effect on the initially targeted vessel. PSW can be a decent defensive skill, though as an offensive skill, it doesn't do very much. Some Klingon BoPs use PSW to facilitate double tap. But with the Double Tap going the way of dinosaurs, I see very little if any offensive application with PSW. Note that APO and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners both provide immunity against PSW, another easily countered skill which cost a lot to specialize in.
Drain:
Chain Siphon 2 and 3. Stack flow capacitors. Run 3xJuel Ducane. Use Plasmonic Leech as well as polaron-proc weaponry. Use those innate subsystem-targeting abilities!
Side bonus: Max power in all subsystems. Run a fleet warp core with [AMP] for maximum benefit.
If possible, run a Tractor Beam with shield drain doff. Once the fix for Tyken's Rift is out, use that with aftershock doffs.
This is probably one of the more popular set up for Sci that actually works in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, the drain build is amazing. Most targets lose their shields completely within seconds. Depending on the kind of fix Tyken's Rift will receive, it may also be potent in PvP, though each person's experience may vary depending on the target and the users' skills.
If all the classes in STO were on the same playing field everyone would be rolling Science Toons and I don?t think that there?s a Science Captain out there that would deny this statement was truth.
With the above being said, I don?t think the Cryptic will ever truly find a solution to bring what could be seen has balance to the classes in STO
I?m an old School Science Captain here in STO and I remember how one sided Science was when compared to Engineering and Tactical.
Anyone remember how broken Viral Matrix was when STO launched?
Viral Matrix was literally the ?I Win Button? and it deserved to be killed with the fire it was hit with.
It only took a week after the Death of Viral Matrix for Science Captains to find setups that could be equally OP has VM and for me that setup was:
Photonic Shockwave 3, Gravity Well 1, Energy Siphon 1 and Tractor Beam
Many other Science Captains used similar builds to the above but the heart of the Combo was always Photonic Shockwave which lead to PS undergoing the VM lobotomy.
After Photonic Shockwave got hit most Science Captains turned to using combo skills that could be used with Gravity Well 3 and the cries for nerfs began again.
The problem with Science was that many of our Skills were pretty effective on their own but were down right deadly when we were able to combo them with some of our other skills and that is what lead to Cryptic essentially halving the effectiveness of all Science Skills and leaving us where we are today.
I don?t envy the position that Cryptic is in when it comes to Science and for that matter Engineering.
If they give Science abilities a too much power and we?ll find a combo that will dominate the other classes, leave us where we are and we?ll never stop complaining about how underpowered we are verses Tactical and Engineering.
The Same argument could be made for Cruisers.
Could you imagine if Cruisers had just 80% of the DPS that Escorts could kick out to go with their superior tanking abilities, they would be damn near impossible to take out without numbers.
I think that Tactical Escorts just ended up being the benefactors of being the lesser of the 3 evils and also being the most simplistic of the builds to spec for greatly helped has well.
I think Cryptic believes that they have found a solution to the Science problem and that seems to be keeping our individual skills near useless unless we fully spec into them to make them mediocre and then we need to add specific doffs to the mix to make the one ability that we choose decent.
I?m glad that the OP has found a Science Setup that?s effective for PVP but now I fear that the cries for nerf will come not for FBP but for the Doffs that power it.
I couldve swore, my shield facings would "Disappear" after an elachi volley...
But I'm not certain of this...
I was under the impression Elachi Proc Removed shield facing at a 2.5% chance clip...
I guess it might be "Ignore shields" coupled with the 50% resist debuff...
Ill have to take a closer look at the Procs later tonight. But i take your word for it sir
Elachi proc doesn't make your shields disappear. But your shield facings may disappear because of Subsystem Targeting to Shields, Phaser Proc, Shield subsystem power = 0 due to drains or Shield capacity reduced to 0 due to sustained fire.
VM is not terribly useful in PvP for a few reasons. EPtX each repairs one of the disabled subsystems, notably EPtE will repair disabled engines. VM's punch is stopping an enemy dead but the activation of EPtE alone repairs the engine disable. It doesn't matter if you have 300 in Subspace Decompiler skill in a VM III or not, the engine disable will be gone. Furthermore, the Romulan doff that clears all debuffs upon activation of EPtX will also instantly clear VM. So by simply pressing EPtE, which many PvPers have these days, it will be guaranteed to repair Engines + a good chance of getting rid of VM completely. So heavy investment into VM can be made totally useless easily. Because VM have GCD of 30 sec, even with 2 copies whereas EPtE or any EPtX can be activated every 30 sec or even every 15 sec, VM can be easily countered. Not to mention, Engineering Team (ET) removes VM and also a commonly available skill. Against Federation vessels with several human boffs, 6 points into subsystem repair and at least 3 points into Inertial Dampeners, VM I will last less than 1 sec even with maximum points into Subspace Decompiler. Most Klingons and Romulans carry VM I as opposed to VM III therefore, their VMs have almost no effect on a properly spec Federation Starship. I wouldn't recommend any Sci ship to specialize in VM based disable, it is too easily countered in PvP, cost too much and most Escorts are prepared to deal with VM.
PSW III with maximum subspace decompiler can disable for approximately 4 to 5 seconds, assuming the target has 0 Inertial Dampeners skill. With any decent amount of investment into ID, the duration will be cut down by about 30~50%. The PSW After Shock simply radiates after shock from the targeted vessel which may hit other enemy target near it - it has no effect on the initially targeted vessel. PSW can be a decent defensive skill, though as an offensive skill, it doesn't do very much. Some Klingon BoPs use PSW to facilitate double tap. But with the Double Tap going the way of dinosaurs, I see very little if any offensive application with PSW. Note that APO and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners both provide immunity against PSW, another easily countered skill which cost a lot to specialize in.
This is probably one of the more popular set up for Sci that actually works in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, the drain build is amazing. Most targets lose their shields completely within seconds. Depending on the kind of fix Tyken's Rift will receive, it may also be potent in PvP, though each person's experience may vary depending on the target and the users' skills.
^Good reading here.... Pros and cons very informative.
Without knowing any specific numbers...I'd estimate that with my build, I can give back upwards to 75% of the incoming damage back at the attacking ship with FBP3...That's just my observation
FBP2 is not nearly as strong....FBP1 I feel is not useful, and with the cooldowns, it only makes sense to have FBP3 and FBP2.
You can verify the strength of your FBP by looking at the tooltip in non-sector space, say around DS9. Make sure your Aux is at maximum when you look at the tooltip. You will see a deflecting factor for the FBP.
Assuming your Particle Generator skill = 150 +/-, your FBP III deflecting factor without any buff should be approximately equal to 0.90 at Aux = 130. This means you will deflect 90% of the incoming damage back at the target, of which 50% of the deflected damage will bypass shields completely.
There is a number of way to increase the deflecting factor. For Science Captain, the most reliable way is through the Conservation of Energy trait. This should boost the above mentioned deflecting factor to about 1.2 ~ 1.3 or so, very potent to say the least. If you activate FBP III while under the effect of Quantum Manipulation, that should boost your deflecting factor by another 0.30
You may have heard some people complaining about Tactical Captain being able to boost FBP better than Science Captain. That is sometimes true due Tactical Captain's ability to use APA and Tactical Fleet. The above mentioned 0.90 FBP III can be boosted up to 1.60 with both APA and Tactical Fleet. The big caveat here is of course that Tactical Fleet has a very long CD of 5 minutes and APA is good every 90 seconds. In other words, Tactical Captains cannot reliably buff FBP as often as Science Captain can through Conservation of Energy but they can spike it higher. In practice, it is very difficult to time FBP with both APA and Tactical Fleet simply because FBP needs to be activated at the right moment and that "right moment" may come at a time when neither APA or TF is available or simply an unsuitable time to use either. For example, activating APA when your APO or CRF is on CD can be a big waste of the skill. Conservation of Energy on the other hand is almost always on so long as you are in combat and receive enemy's energy fires. So at best, Tactical Captain can use APA to boost FBP but that only equalizes what Conservation of Energy offers and APA can't be activated as often as Conservation of Energy. A build that uses FBP over the period of Arena match will likely see higher average FBP Deflecting Factor under a Sci Captain than a Tactical Captain, everything else being equal.
But look at the wide variety of abilities Sci has but most of them are weak and easily avoidable or just simply shrugged off.
Science has more unused or ineffective abilities than any the other two classes of abilities.
I beg to differ. I use a ship has 0 tactical stations, and runs nothing but Sci stations and a few Eng stations. It's a very versatile build that can adapt easily in different situations and any type of enemy. In fact, I can say no Escorts would dare to challenge it alone, with or without FBP.
How many people check to see if its FBP3 with all the proper buffings and all, or just see blue pulses coming back and immediately pull off or use their subnuc early and all? I wonder how effectively you could deter someone with just FBP1, just as a headfake without them checking the actual numbers, and still having your top sci slots available for other options?
This is an interesting thought. I have been contemplating about this but haven't tested it yet. FBP I only costs a Lt. station and can indeed fake as a good deterent. Most people's immediate reaction is to stop firing when seeing FBP reflecting back at them. The only way they can notice it's FBP I is to actually hoover over the FBP icon on the target, which may not be easy to do in the middle of a combat. Another way is if they feel the deflected damage to themselves is manageable, they may choose to continue firing anyway.
I just wanted to add...
Yes a smarter then average captain will refrain from firing on you when FPB is active, but there is not much of cooldown time between FBP3 and 2.... I think its 30 secs
The downtime is only 15 seconds in your case.
Now keep in mind the Wells class has 1.45% Shield Modifier...and im using ST3/2, HazEm2/1 and EmPwr2Shields....(along with Sci Resistance buffs)
So any damage in between FBP's will be heavily negateted with rock hard shielding.
By the time a shield goes yellow, FBP2 is ready for use.
Be careful that you are susceptible to subnuke even with ST. When you enemy notices you just started a FBP, they can subnuke you to remove your FBP. This means, you will have about 30 seconds without any FBP coverage. Also, some damages ignore shields. For the 30 seconds, while your FBP is down, you will be extremely vulnerable to sustained fire. Note, a number of skills and equipment can be used to counter your FBP such as : Tachyon Beam (cannot be deflected, not actually energy weapon), Mines, Transphasic Cluster Torpedo, Kinetic Cutting Beam, Plasma Torpedo with Plasma DoT, Harpeng Torpedo with radiation damage, Transphasic Torpedo, Tractor Beam with Shield Drain.
I noticed that your build has fairly low Shield and Engines power as they are at minimum. This means you will be vulnerable to a powerful Gravity Well and your shield damage resistance is likely low due to lower power. EPtS alone doesn't provide enough shield damage resistance.
As for being a skill that wont contribute to PvP matchs (Arena or Capture and Hold);
What FBP3/2 will do for you is... Discourage enemies to target you, or outright kill the ones who can't stop tapping the space bar.
So let's just say eveybody realizes they shouldnt fire on you due to thorn dmg FBP, well thats great...you can then scan the area looking for teamates to heal, give directions to focus fire on one target, and subnuke/sensor scan that "focused Target" for your teamates.
That's true and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Plus, against those who spam Beam Fire at Will, they can't just stop shooting you at will. You can also time your FBP to meet their expected alpha when you anticipate their attack 1 or 2 seconds before. Some Escorts have a tendency to upload a major Alpha and you can see them prepping for it with the tactical buff icons, as is often the case with Bug ships. But there is a slight delay between when they fire shots and when the shots actually hit you. If you anticipate correctly, you can deflect a massive amount of damage back giving them no chance to abort or evade. Many bug ships instantly kill themselves as a result without any possibility of evading or even heal.
Now being in a sci ship, and a sci captain, you wont do massive DPS, but it's enough to provoke the target to use heals, etc...
In my case I might do slightly more damage, just because I maxed Energy weapons skill, and went with Crit Hit Reputation bonus...but I must say, even with the maxed energy weapons and crit Hit Rep bonuses the damage dealt is not earthshattering by any means...it actually quite conservative (but like I said, it's enough to force heals out of the target).
Especially if your set up is Weapons 50-75, Shields MIN, Engines MIN, Aux MAX
Pop a weapons battery to boost the dmg...really helps, thing is, you better know exactly when you want that extra power, because the battery cooldown is (i think) 1 min ...or more).
Battery cooldown is 2 minutes but can be reduced to one minute if you have a purple Quartermaster doff who can reduce CD by 100%.
The great thing is having no distractions....literally I can heal a teamates with HE2, and ST3...and that brings them almost back to 100% shields and hull...with a resistance bonus...Even if they are under fire from 3-4 enemies... The MAX AUX delivers massive heals...
So in a way, the FBP just allows a sci "To Do Their Job Better"
Maybe FBP3/2 chaining is excessive...
Somebody mentioned using FBP1 as a mind trick...might work, buy you time anyway until your next heal is available ...but again FBP1 doesnt deliver enough bang for the buck. you're probably better off with ST2 or HE2 or some other heal.
Consider integrating Photonic Officer into your build, which allows you to reduce your CD and less need to carry two copies of everything.
^ Fascinating \\//_
Thanks for the stats, I had a general idea, but that helps so much.
Here is my DOFF/BOFF Layouts.. Maybe you wouldn't mind taking a look..
Well Class
(PVP)
Boff Layout:
Purple Human - Sci - PolHull I / SciTeam II / SciTeam III / FBP III
Purple Human - Sci - HazEm I / PolHull II / FBP II
Blue Saurian (w/Warp core boost) - Sci - TSS I / HazEm II
LibBorg - Engi - EmPwr2Sh I
Purple Human - Tac - TT I / BO II
DOFFS
(2x) Blue - Chance to Reflect DMG with Polarize Hull
(3x) Purp - Adds Resistance Debuff to FBP
Wells Class
(PvE)
Boff Layout:
Blue Saurian (+WC) - Sci - TSS I / HazEm II / SciTeam III / GravWell III
Purp Human - Sci - HazEm I / SciTeam II / GravWell I
Purple Human - Sci - TractorBeam I / PhotonicOff I
LibBorg: EmPw2SH I
Purple Human - Tac - TT I / BO II
DOFFS
Blue - Tractor beam Doff
Blue - Batteries Doff - 80% cooldown
(3x) Green - GravWell Doffs
^ Fascinating \\//_
Thanks for the stats, I had a general idea, but that helps so much.
Here is my DOFF/BOFF Layouts.. Maybe you wouldn't mind taking a look..
Well Class
(PVP)
Boff Layout:
Purple Human - Sci - PolHull I / SciTeam II / SciTeam III / FBP III
Purple Human - Sci - HazEm I / PolHull II / FBP II
Blue Saurian (w/Warp core boost) - Sci - TSS I / HazEm II
LibBorg - Engi - EmPwr2Sh I
Purple Human - Tac - TT I / BO II
DOFFS
(2x) Blue - Chance to Reflect DMG with Polarize Hull
(3x) Purp - Adds Resistance Debuff to FBP
Happy to give my opinion on your builds :
- Sci Team is important in PvP to clear debuffs, notably Subnuke, Jam Sensors, Anti-Matter Spreads and etc. but it is not very effective in shield heal. ST II heals about 2600 of shield hitpoint each facing. It has a CD time of 30 seconds. 2600 / 30 seconds = 87 shield heal / second. Let's compare it to TSS III, it instantly heals about 1100 each facing + additional 350 per sec for 15 sec = 6350 shield hit point heal with a CD of 45 sec. 6350 / 45 = 141 shield heal / sec (assuming Aux = 130). The advantage of ST is that it is not Aux dependent and can be used even when disabled. However, ST should be reserved to clear debuffs and only used as a source of shield heal during crunch time. In terms of pure shield heal, TSS wins no contest, in addition to providing additional shield damage resistance. Recommend you keep only one copy of the ST, no need for two.
- Polarize Hull is another must have skill for any Sci because it will act as the main hull damage resistance buff of an otherwise fragile ship. That said, two copies is again an overkill the reason being the 15 seconds it provides should be used to get yourself out of harm's way by whatever means necessary, say move out of tractor range or enemy's firing range. It is not meant to be cycled back to back and stay put to tank enemy's fire. At the end of the day, a Sci ship doesn't have enough hull points to do hull tanking. Even with high hull damage resist, you still won't last very long under sustained enemy's fire. Recommend you keep only one copy of the PH.
- Some people like to carry two copies of Hazard Emitters and FBP, I see their reasoning and won't argue otherwise. For me, I don't like to carry two copies of anything, instead prefer to rely on CD reduction abilities in lieu of carrying two copies. This is a matter of personal preference, reasonable persons can disagree.
- Consider to add Tractor Beam to your repertoire, it will help your BO hit more reliably and more likely to crit as well
- Consider Energy Siphon as it can greatly increase your power level. If you do, make sure your Energy Siphon is at least ES II or above.
- At this time, your Tactical Team has a very severe conflict with your two copies of Science Team. If you keep cycling your ST, your TT will have no opportunity to be activated, so reduce one copy of ST and keep the TT or remove the TT and put in something else in its place
At the Federation Shipyards, here are two threads that I would recommend you to read as you may find some of the information there quite useful:
Both of which uses the Wells as the template and as you already noted, high end Science builds are incredibly expensive but also very potent under competent Captains.
As for your choices of the doff, I find that the proc rate of these doffs to be too low to be useful in PvP. The Polarize Hull doff only has, I believe 1% chance of activating when receiving damage. Even when it does proc, its benefits is very limited to that one shot that is deflected back. Unless it happened to be a super charged BO III, the utility of such doff is very limited. It shouldn't be a surprise these doffs are quite cheap on the Exchange. The resistance debuff via FBP is also not terribly useful. It's another probability based proc, and the proc rate is low. You are better off with Attack Pattern Delta in lieu of these Boffs as APD, will debuff the target 100% of the time and more effectively as well. While FBP has its utility in PvP, making a whole build centered on it is very risky as you are not diversified enough. Many people carry different weapons and equipment in their inventory. In an Arena match, it's going to be very easy to switch out equipment to deal with you FBP build. One of my speciality is Transphasic build. I used to run my Wells on nothing but Transphasic weapons. It will be very easy for me to reconfigure my ship to deal with a ship that relies on cycling FBP. There are a couple of well known PvPer who uses FBP almost exclusively. You see the name "Kax" mentioned earlier, well, there is a reason for that. In Kerrat, Queen Scora on the KDF side runs a super FBP carrier but she is a one trick pony.
Be worry when your tactics become predictable, then people can adapt quickly. One of the strengths of Science vessel is versatility - use that - make yourself unpredictable. There are PvP builds which I use FBP but there are that I don't use at all. In lieu of FBP, I have a build that uses RSP II instead. In lieu of Jam Sensors, I have one that uses Tachyon Beam. There are several builds that I can switch in & out depending on the situation because 80% of the structure is identical, allowing for the rest of the 20% to be quite flexible. In fact, I even came up with an anti-Cruiser/Tank build that uses no ST but ET instead. It is designed to combat BFAW with 7-8 Beam arrays and DEM III. Some of these builds, I didn't publish. I believe that design can single handily take down a super tanky cruiser and that one does incorporate FBP III and Jam Sensors but no Tractor. In all cases, there are a few core principles - no tactical stations of anykind, all have Energy Siphon II and etc. You should design your build based on how you see yourself. Have a few core principles / style, stick to those but allow for different variations depending on the situation or need. Many people think Cruisers are the best tanks in STO, I think a properly spec can outtank Cruisers due to the multitude of defensive buffs and debuffs at the Sci's disposal.
Comments
I've been away from the game for a month or so but GW is by far my favorite skill.
Where can I find the info on these upcoming GW changes?
well if they useless tell Cryptic to remove them from the game...
What Doff's is the OP referring too?
[/SIGPIC]
As I already said... An Escort is build to perfom tactical maneuvres and will perfom better at them as a Starcruiser for example... no matter if it is a veteran crew or fresh from the academy...
Would you care to elaborate? Is there a reason or are you just against it because you are against it?
BS..... a veteran crew will always outperform newbies ....that is why there are white, green, blue and purple doffs, consoles, and systems. ( the colors correspond to the training/experience the crew/item has ...drrrrr )
you 'have' had elaborations in this thread ... you are just choosing to ignore them.
it's a bad idea, and you were told why..... deal with it..
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
He's got every fleet item imaginable, the best goodies from the rep trees, and very expensive purple doffs. Sci's might be able to reach parity at that point but only at that point. Don't try to claim that they aren't useless from level 1 to 50 or any other time before you've reached that point. If you have to have all the fleet goodies and a lobi ship to be a decent sci, that's not enough, sorry.
Okay... so you're telling me it absolutely OK and logical that an Odyssey is as nimble and fast in Combat as a... Defiant and that the Defiant will perform better at scientific endeavours, using its Deflector and Sensors, than the Luna Class, got it!
rp =/= game mechanics
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I said nothing of the sort....'you' did.
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
>_>
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This is unfortunatly more true then false..
A Great Sci build (can be) is very expensive...
As well, someone asked about the FBP Doffs..
Again, they can be found in the Romulan Doff Packs, or on the exchange for about 1.5 - 2.5 mill
(Purple FBP Doffs)
I think the Blue FBP Doffs are about 150 -250k ..so that's much more affordable. Its somewhere to start...
3 is the maximum you can use...so
3 blue FBP Doffs will cost you maximum...750k... not terrible...
The only difference in the purple and blue doff is the % chance to inflict Resistance loss on the target...
Blue has a 10% chance
Purples have a 12% chance
Development Lab Scientists obtained from the Romulan Fleet Doff Pack.
"Whilst FBP is active, each pulse has a 3/6/9/12% chance to reduce your attacker's resistance rating by 15, for 8 seconds"
The blues cost ~2mil EC (cheapest I saw was under 200k though; the cheapest purple currently as of 2:18 EST was 15 mill EC
...
I know, it was bugging me too.
No you did not... but you condone the Status Quo... which currently is exactly as I've written in my half sarcastic-half annoyed post...
And I've not even started with RP rylanadionysis and quite frankly I don't even want to because I am sure you are not willing to appreciate it.
But yeah... I must admit I made an Error... I've called up the Odyssey in my post which is indeed a completely different horse being flagship and all... please replace it with a generic Engineering Ship...
again you are posting speculations of anothers' intent and/or position, without a shred of proof of said intent. These are 'your' words.....not mine.
is that all you are going to do from here on out ?
'speculate' rather than ponder the elaborations you so clearly demanded but vehemently deny exist ?
tisk tisk.
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---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
15 Million for Purple FBP DOFFS !!!! NO WAY !!!
When I bought them about 2 weeks ago they were selling for 2 million !
I guess they went up in price, sorry for the old information...
2 mil for blues...does seem way too pricey...
I swear two weeks ago purples were 2 - 3 mil....Blues were 1.5K - 2.5k.....
With the above being said, I don?t think the Cryptic will ever truly find a solution to bring what could be seen has balance to the classes in STO
I?m an old School Science Captain here in STO and I remember how one sided Science was when compared to Engineering and Tactical.
Anyone remember how broken Viral Matrix was when STO launched?
Viral Matrix was literally the ?I Win Button? and it deserved to be killed with the fire it was hit with.
It only took a week after the Death of Viral Matrix for Science Captains to find setups that could be equally OP has VM and for me that setup was:
Photonic Shockwave 3, Gravity Well 1, Energy Siphon 1 and Tractor Beam
Many other Science Captains used similar builds to the above but the heart of the Combo was always Photonic Shockwave which lead to PS undergoing the VM lobotomy.
After Photonic Shockwave got hit most Science Captains turned to using combo skills that could be used with Gravity Well 3 and the cries for nerfs began again.
The problem with Science was that many of our Skills were pretty effective on their own but were down right deadly when we were able to combo them with some of our other skills and that is what lead to Cryptic essentially halving the effectiveness of all Science Skills and leaving us where we are today.
I don?t envy the position that Cryptic is in when it comes to Science and for that matter Engineering.
If they give Science abilities a too much power and we?ll find a combo that will dominate the other classes, leave us where we are and we?ll never stop complaining about how underpowered we are verses Tactical and Engineering.
The Same argument could be made for Cruisers.
Could you imagine if Cruisers had just 80% of the DPS that Escorts could kick out to go with their superior tanking abilities, they would be damn near impossible to take out without numbers.
I think that Tactical Escorts just ended up being the benefactors of being the lesser of the 3 evils and also being the most simplistic of the builds to spec for greatly helped has well.
I think Cryptic believes that they have found a solution to the Science problem and that seems to be keeping our individual skills near useless unless we fully spec into them to make them mediocre and then we need to add specific doffs to the mix to make the one ability that we choose decent.
I?m glad that the OP has found a Science Setup that?s effective for PVP but now I fear that the cries for nerf will come not for FBP but for the Doffs that power it.
VM is not terribly useful in PvP for a few reasons. EPtX each repairs one of the disabled subsystems, notably EPtE will repair disabled engines. VM's punch is stopping an enemy dead but the activation of EPtE alone repairs the engine disable. It doesn't matter if you have 300 in Subspace Decompiler skill in a VM III or not, the engine disable will be gone. Furthermore, the Romulan doff that clears all debuffs upon activation of EPtX will also instantly clear VM. So by simply pressing EPtE, which many PvPers have these days, it will be guaranteed to repair Engines + a good chance of getting rid of VM completely. So heavy investment into VM can be made totally useless easily. Because VM have GCD of 30 sec, even with 2 copies whereas EPtE or any EPtX can be activated every 30 sec or even every 15 sec, VM can be easily countered. Not to mention, Engineering Team (ET) removes VM and also a commonly available skill. Against Federation vessels with several human boffs, 6 points into subsystem repair and at least 3 points into Inertial Dampeners, VM I will last less than 1 sec even with maximum points into Subspace Decompiler. Most Klingons and Romulans carry VM I as opposed to VM III therefore, their VMs have almost no effect on a properly spec Federation Starship. I wouldn't recommend any Sci ship to specialize in VM based disable, it is too easily countered in PvP, cost too much and most Escorts are prepared to deal with VM.
PSW III with maximum subspace decompiler can disable for approximately 4 to 5 seconds, assuming the target has 0 Inertial Dampeners skill. With any decent amount of investment into ID, the duration will be cut down by about 30~50%. The PSW After Shock simply radiates after shock from the targeted vessel which may hit other enemy target near it - it has no effect on the initially targeted vessel. PSW can be a decent defensive skill, though as an offensive skill, it doesn't do very much. Some Klingon BoPs use PSW to facilitate double tap. But with the Double Tap going the way of dinosaurs, I see very little if any offensive application with PSW. Note that APO and Auxiliary to Inertial Dampeners both provide immunity against PSW, another easily countered skill which cost a lot to specialize in.
This is probably one of the more popular set up for Sci that actually works in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, the drain build is amazing. Most targets lose their shields completely within seconds. Depending on the kind of fix Tyken's Rift will receive, it may also be potent in PvP, though each person's experience may vary depending on the target and the users' skills.
^ I tend to agree with this logic...
Elachi proc doesn't make your shields disappear. But your shield facings may disappear because of Subsystem Targeting to Shields, Phaser Proc, Shield subsystem power = 0 due to drains or Shield capacity reduced to 0 due to sustained fire.
^Good reading here.... Pros and cons very informative.
You can verify the strength of your FBP by looking at the tooltip in non-sector space, say around DS9. Make sure your Aux is at maximum when you look at the tooltip. You will see a deflecting factor for the FBP.
Assuming your Particle Generator skill = 150 +/-, your FBP III deflecting factor without any buff should be approximately equal to 0.90 at Aux = 130. This means you will deflect 90% of the incoming damage back at the target, of which 50% of the deflected damage will bypass shields completely.
There is a number of way to increase the deflecting factor. For Science Captain, the most reliable way is through the Conservation of Energy trait. This should boost the above mentioned deflecting factor to about 1.2 ~ 1.3 or so, very potent to say the least. If you activate FBP III while under the effect of Quantum Manipulation, that should boost your deflecting factor by another 0.30
You may have heard some people complaining about Tactical Captain being able to boost FBP better than Science Captain. That is sometimes true due Tactical Captain's ability to use APA and Tactical Fleet. The above mentioned 0.90 FBP III can be boosted up to 1.60 with both APA and Tactical Fleet. The big caveat here is of course that Tactical Fleet has a very long CD of 5 minutes and APA is good every 90 seconds. In other words, Tactical Captains cannot reliably buff FBP as often as Science Captain can through Conservation of Energy but they can spike it higher. In practice, it is very difficult to time FBP with both APA and Tactical Fleet simply because FBP needs to be activated at the right moment and that "right moment" may come at a time when neither APA or TF is available or simply an unsuitable time to use either. For example, activating APA when your APO or CRF is on CD can be a big waste of the skill. Conservation of Energy on the other hand is almost always on so long as you are in combat and receive enemy's energy fires. So at best, Tactical Captain can use APA to boost FBP but that only equalizes what Conservation of Energy offers and APA can't be activated as often as Conservation of Energy. A build that uses FBP over the period of Arena match will likely see higher average FBP Deflecting Factor under a Sci Captain than a Tactical Captain, everything else being equal.
I beg to differ. I use a ship has 0 tactical stations, and runs nothing but Sci stations and a few Eng stations. It's a very versatile build that can adapt easily in different situations and any type of enemy. In fact, I can say no Escorts would dare to challenge it alone, with or without FBP.
This is an interesting thought. I have been contemplating about this but haven't tested it yet. FBP I only costs a Lt. station and can indeed fake as a good deterent. Most people's immediate reaction is to stop firing when seeing FBP reflecting back at them. The only way they can notice it's FBP I is to actually hoover over the FBP icon on the target, which may not be easy to do in the middle of a combat. Another way is if they feel the deflected damage to themselves is manageable, they may choose to continue firing anyway.
The downtime is only 15 seconds in your case.
Be careful that you are susceptible to subnuke even with ST. When you enemy notices you just started a FBP, they can subnuke you to remove your FBP. This means, you will have about 30 seconds without any FBP coverage. Also, some damages ignore shields. For the 30 seconds, while your FBP is down, you will be extremely vulnerable to sustained fire. Note, a number of skills and equipment can be used to counter your FBP such as : Tachyon Beam (cannot be deflected, not actually energy weapon), Mines, Transphasic Cluster Torpedo, Kinetic Cutting Beam, Plasma Torpedo with Plasma DoT, Harpeng Torpedo with radiation damage, Transphasic Torpedo, Tractor Beam with Shield Drain.
I noticed that your build has fairly low Shield and Engines power as they are at minimum. This means you will be vulnerable to a powerful Gravity Well and your shield damage resistance is likely low due to lower power. EPtS alone doesn't provide enough shield damage resistance.
That's true and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Plus, against those who spam Beam Fire at Will, they can't just stop shooting you at will. You can also time your FBP to meet their expected alpha when you anticipate their attack 1 or 2 seconds before. Some Escorts have a tendency to upload a major Alpha and you can see them prepping for it with the tactical buff icons, as is often the case with Bug ships. But there is a slight delay between when they fire shots and when the shots actually hit you. If you anticipate correctly, you can deflect a massive amount of damage back giving them no chance to abort or evade. Many bug ships instantly kill themselves as a result without any possibility of evading or even heal.
Battery cooldown is 2 minutes but can be reduced to one minute if you have a purple Quartermaster doff who can reduce CD by 100%.
Consider integrating Photonic Officer into your build, which allows you to reduce your CD and less need to carry two copies of everything.
Thanks for the stats, I had a general idea, but that helps so much.
Here is my DOFF/BOFF Layouts.. Maybe you wouldn't mind taking a look..
Well Class
(PVP)
Boff Layout:
Purple Human - Sci - PolHull I / SciTeam II / SciTeam III / FBP III
Purple Human - Sci - HazEm I / PolHull II / FBP II
Blue Saurian (w/Warp core boost) - Sci - TSS I / HazEm II
LibBorg - Engi - EmPwr2Sh I
Purple Human - Tac - TT I / BO II
DOFFS
(2x) Blue - Chance to Reflect DMG with Polarize Hull
(3x) Purp - Adds Resistance Debuff to FBP
Wells Class
(PvE)
Boff Layout:
Blue Saurian (+WC) - Sci - TSS I / HazEm II / SciTeam III / GravWell III
Purp Human - Sci - HazEm I / SciTeam II / GravWell I
Purple Human - Sci - TractorBeam I / PhotonicOff I
LibBorg: EmPw2SH I
Purple Human - Tac - TT I / BO II
DOFFS
Blue - Tractor beam Doff
Blue - Batteries Doff - 80% cooldown
(3x) Green - GravWell Doffs
Happy to give my opinion on your builds :
- Sci Team is important in PvP to clear debuffs, notably Subnuke, Jam Sensors, Anti-Matter Spreads and etc. but it is not very effective in shield heal. ST II heals about 2600 of shield hitpoint each facing. It has a CD time of 30 seconds. 2600 / 30 seconds = 87 shield heal / second. Let's compare it to TSS III, it instantly heals about 1100 each facing + additional 350 per sec for 15 sec = 6350 shield hit point heal with a CD of 45 sec. 6350 / 45 = 141 shield heal / sec (assuming Aux = 130). The advantage of ST is that it is not Aux dependent and can be used even when disabled. However, ST should be reserved to clear debuffs and only used as a source of shield heal during crunch time. In terms of pure shield heal, TSS wins no contest, in addition to providing additional shield damage resistance. Recommend you keep only one copy of the ST, no need for two.
- Polarize Hull is another must have skill for any Sci because it will act as the main hull damage resistance buff of an otherwise fragile ship. That said, two copies is again an overkill the reason being the 15 seconds it provides should be used to get yourself out of harm's way by whatever means necessary, say move out of tractor range or enemy's firing range. It is not meant to be cycled back to back and stay put to tank enemy's fire. At the end of the day, a Sci ship doesn't have enough hull points to do hull tanking. Even with high hull damage resist, you still won't last very long under sustained enemy's fire. Recommend you keep only one copy of the PH.
- Some people like to carry two copies of Hazard Emitters and FBP, I see their reasoning and won't argue otherwise. For me, I don't like to carry two copies of anything, instead prefer to rely on CD reduction abilities in lieu of carrying two copies. This is a matter of personal preference, reasonable persons can disagree.
- Consider to add Tractor Beam to your repertoire, it will help your BO hit more reliably and more likely to crit as well
- Consider Energy Siphon as it can greatly increase your power level. If you do, make sure your Energy Siphon is at least ES II or above.
- At this time, your Tactical Team has a very severe conflict with your two copies of Science Team. If you keep cycling your ST, your TT will have no opportunity to be activated, so reduce one copy of ST and keep the TT or remove the TT and put in something else in its place
At the Federation Shipyards, here are two threads that I would recommend you to read as you may find some of the information there quite useful:
Pure Federation Science Vessel
Federation Maximum Drain Build
Both of which uses the Wells as the template and as you already noted, high end Science builds are incredibly expensive but also very potent under competent Captains.
As for your choices of the doff, I find that the proc rate of these doffs to be too low to be useful in PvP. The Polarize Hull doff only has, I believe 1% chance of activating when receiving damage. Even when it does proc, its benefits is very limited to that one shot that is deflected back. Unless it happened to be a super charged BO III, the utility of such doff is very limited. It shouldn't be a surprise these doffs are quite cheap on the Exchange. The resistance debuff via FBP is also not terribly useful. It's another probability based proc, and the proc rate is low. You are better off with Attack Pattern Delta in lieu of these Boffs as APD, will debuff the target 100% of the time and more effectively as well. While FBP has its utility in PvP, making a whole build centered on it is very risky as you are not diversified enough. Many people carry different weapons and equipment in their inventory. In an Arena match, it's going to be very easy to switch out equipment to deal with you FBP build. One of my speciality is Transphasic build. I used to run my Wells on nothing but Transphasic weapons. It will be very easy for me to reconfigure my ship to deal with a ship that relies on cycling FBP. There are a couple of well known PvPer who uses FBP almost exclusively. You see the name "Kax" mentioned earlier, well, there is a reason for that. In Kerrat, Queen Scora on the KDF side runs a super FBP carrier but she is a one trick pony.
Be worry when your tactics become predictable, then people can adapt quickly. One of the strengths of Science vessel is versatility - use that - make yourself unpredictable. There are PvP builds which I use FBP but there are that I don't use at all. In lieu of FBP, I have a build that uses RSP II instead. In lieu of Jam Sensors, I have one that uses Tachyon Beam. There are several builds that I can switch in & out depending on the situation because 80% of the structure is identical, allowing for the rest of the 20% to be quite flexible. In fact, I even came up with an anti-Cruiser/Tank build that uses no ST but ET instead. It is designed to combat BFAW with 7-8 Beam arrays and DEM III. Some of these builds, I didn't publish. I believe that design can single handily take down a super tanky cruiser and that one does incorporate FBP III and Jam Sensors but no Tractor. In all cases, there are a few core principles - no tactical stations of anykind, all have Energy Siphon II and etc. You should design your build based on how you see yourself. Have a few core principles / style, stick to those but allow for different variations depending on the situation or need. Many people think Cruisers are the best tanks in STO, I think a properly spec can outtank Cruisers due to the multitude of defensive buffs and debuffs at the Sci's disposal.