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Were Romulans really ready for release?

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    "I find myself longing for destruction. <sigh> Worry not, like you I am too well trained to allow it to happen." Personally I think he needed a vacation.





    Evidence that they kept agents on a shorter leash than the federation or the Klingons?

    Oh and another thought on the let our enemies tear each other apart line.
    The Cardassians through the Obsidian order, and the Romulans through the Tal Shi'ar, launch a decapitation strike. The noble federation response? "Let them, it might work." Pitting two sides against one another while you stand back to mop up the rest is not just a romulan tactic.
    There is actually a difference. For the Feds to stop the Romulans would have required fighting an ally and weakening their position vs the dominion... so they stood back and let their allies do what they wanted. They didn't ask the Romulans to do it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    There is actually a difference. For the Feds to stop the Romulans would have required fighting an ally and weakening their position vs the dominion... so they stood back and let their allies do what they wanted. They didn't ask the Romulans to do it.

    And that falls in line with just stepping back to watch the Klingons kill each other till a contrived plan to expose the Romulans surfaced? The Federation knew it was happening, they just had no proof. But instead of siding with their allies they hid behind a pretty regulation that seems so malleable that the Federation should be the ones with the closed borders and cloaking devices. "We don't get involved!"

    Added is the fact that two friendlies were held on one of the assaulting ships. So an admiral orders sabotage of a federation vessel to prevent any form of rescue?

    The Romulans however are willing to risk a war to retrieve one citizen that was aboard the Enterprise. When he died 'under their care' they were willing to open fire. Only finding a second survivor stayed their hand.

    Balancing nobility is is a bit shakier.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • l30p4rdl30p4rd Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    crusty8mac wrote: »
    Tovan is my latrine officer.
    He constantly tries to promote himself to First Officer, Head of Tactical, and Head of Security.
    He sits on my bridge even thought the latrine officer has no station on the bridge.
    He is the wrong gender.

    I hate Tovan with a passion.

    My Tovan

    To the OP, making the Romulans a separate faction would guarantee that they would become second class citizens, just as the KDF already are. Be thankful for what you have.

    You sir, have the most epic Tovan !
  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Romulans wasn't ready for sure. The storyline is poor, naive and primitive. Criptic romulans are not look like or act like romulans. It feels like a cheap Hollywood movie.
    Also, romulans could be made as a standalone faction as they got almost anything they need.
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  • valetharvalethar Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    taut0u wrote: »
    Romulans wasn't ready for sure. The storyline is poor, naive and primitive. Cryptic Romulans do not look like or act like Romulans.

    As far as looks go, it's funny that a Fed is a Klingon is a Romulan. All of the humanoid races in the game can be made to look like one another with almost no effort at all. Cryptic has been taking the lazy approach to character creation since Alpha, and it shows.

    There are numerous problems with the Romulans as a whole. Cryptic clearly didn't learn any lessons from the Klingon faction debacle. You'd have thought after nearly three years, someone over there would have gotten a clue somewhere along the line. Apparently not.

    - The KDF/Romulan uniform suffers from the same color changing bug that several of the KDF uniforms were afflicted with.

    - Ship selection is anemic and unbalanced with regards to Sci/Tac/Eng diversity. They even acknowledged this a few weeks ago when they added new ships to the C-$tore to 'address' the lack of tactical options.

    - NPC's frequently refer to the ship you're currently flying as if you were in your shuttle or other small craft.

    - NPC's refer to you by your allied faction rather than as a Romulan. Likely because they just copied the code from Fed/KDF and didn't bother to do the work needed to actually differentiate between them. All they have to do is do a race check to identify the Romulan faction, or create a simple flag for Romulan and Reman characters that would identify them for the faction check. It's not that hard to do.

    - NPC's on your own ship are actually members of the allied faction, rather than Romulans. There's no excuse for the lazy approach here either. We didn't join that faction, we simply chose to work with them to rebuild the Romulan society. There's no way a Romulan would allow Starfleet or the Klingons to garrison their ships with Fed or KDF security personnel. I noticed this while doing some diplomatic missions recently.

    - Romulans, like the KDF, cannot use the options to show their kit/armor properly. There's no excuse for that at all. If they can make the EVA suits work, there's no reason they can't make the rest work. Especially the armor, since it would work exactly like the EVA suit and simply replace whatever outfit you have on at the moment.

    - Ship customization is, for the most part, erratic at best. Most of the time you can't select colors and actually have them apply, regardless of what skin/pattern you use. Some people have mentioned a 'work around', but that too is erratic at best, and we shouldn't have to be jumping through hoops to correct an issue they should have corrected by now.

    It's ironic that they've constantly stated, since LoR went into development, that the Romulans are their own faction, with their own identity. etc... then go out of their way to shoehorn them into the existing Fed/KDF infrastructure as if the Romulans were merely a new race added to the game.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    valethar wrote: »
    As far as looks go, it's funny that a Fed is a Klingon is a Romulan. All of the humanoid races in the game can be made to look like one another with almost no effort at all. Cryptic has been taking the lazy approach to character creation since Alpha, and it shows.
    Mara, Kang and Kor would disagree with you. Most races in CANON Star Trek look very similar to each other. It's pretty much inevitable that this would migrate into the game.
    - The KDF/Romulan uniform suffers from the same color changing bug that several of the KDF uniforms were afflicted with.
    Some of the Fed uniforms are too. So?
    - Ship selection is anemic and unbalanced with regards to Sci/Tac/Eng diversity. They even acknowledged this a few weeks ago when they added new ships to the C-$tore to 'address' the lack of tactical options.
    They definitely need more Sci options but what they have is fine. Unbalanced yes, anemic no.
    - NPC's refer to you by your allied faction rather than as a Romulan. Likely because they just copied the code from Fed/KDF and didn't bother to do the work needed to actually differentiate between them. All they have to do is do a race check to identify the Romulan faction, or create a simple flag for Romulan and Reman characters that would identify them for the faction check. It's not that hard to do.
    If you're talking about playing missions... the truth is worse than you think. I most cases you're NOT playing a Romulan mission at all, but the Fed(or KDF) mission itself. You want to see one that will make your hair stand on end? Send a Fed aligned Romulan to do the Diplomatic daily mission on Vulcan. :D Now THAT is a mission that is clearly not meant to be played by Romulans at all. :D
    - NPC's on your own ship are actually members of the allied faction, rather than Romulans. There's no excuse for the lazy approach here either. We didn't join that faction, we simply chose to work with them to rebuild the Romulan society. There's no way a Romulan would allow Starfleet or the Klingons to garrison their ships with Fed or KDF security personnel. I noticed this while doing some diplomatic missions recently.
    Again, see what I said about playing missions. It sounds like you're talking about the diplomatic missions where you interact with members of a minor race in your ship's conference room. you're not playing a Romulan mission at all.
    - Romulans, like the KDF, cannot use the options to show their kit/armor properly. There's no excuse for that at all. If they can make the EVA suits work, there's no reason they can't make the rest work. Especially the armor, since it would work exactly like the EVA suit and simply replace whatever outfit you have on at the moment.
    I know that at least RRF chars can wear something that looks like a kit even if it isn't the same thing.
    - Ship customization is, for the most part, erratic at best. Most of the time you can't select colors and actually have them apply, regardless of what skin/pattern you use. Some people have mentioned a 'work around', but that too is erratic at best, and we shouldn't have to be jumping through hoops to correct an issue they should have corrected by now.
    I've never seen that come up, ever. How did you encounter the bug?
    It's ironic that they've constantly stated, since LoR went into development, that the Romulans are their own faction, with their own identity. etc... then go out of their way to shoehorn them into the existing Fed/KDF infrastructure as if the Romulans were merely a new race added to the game.
    Really? I think the Romulan Republic is quite nice.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • ragestroke008ragestroke008 Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Roms have 1 ship type per rank, until you make 40. That's not ready. They could have copied and pasted the same ship twice more and altered the boff and slots, tailored for each class.

    The Scimitar special bridge is comprised of a small bridge, thaleron chamber and a small corridor linking the two. That's it.

    The Rom ships don't have trophy placement.

    Roms don't have any special t4 Diplomacy rewards (beyond the new transwarp shortcut that Fed and KDF have).

    No, they weren't ready. Still aren't.
    Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    valethar wrote: »
    - NPC's on your own ship are actually members of the allied faction, rather than Romulans. There's no excuse for the lazy approach here either. We didn't join that faction, we simply chose to work with them to rebuild the Romulan society. There's no way a Romulan would allow Starfleet or the Klingons to garrison their ships with Fed or KDF security personnel. I noticed this while doing some diplomatic missions recently.

    If you mean your Duty Officers, you can recruit only Romulans, Remans, and Sulibans, by going to the Command Center on New Romulus and accessing the console (in the room across the hall from the Admiral's office). You can also get the Romulan DOff pack from the C-Store. If you rely on DOff assignments to recruit more DOffs, yeah, you're not going to get anything but UFP or KE NPCs. You'll notice also that the more DOffs you have, the fuller your ship's interior hallways are, based (loosely) on the DOffs you have.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Roms have 1 ship type per rank, until you make 40. That's not ready. They could have copied and pasted the same ship twice more and altered the boff and slots, tailored for each class.
    Why bother? Nowadays players won't be in those ranks long enough to really use the ships anyways. Oh and there are 2 choices at L30 now.
    The Scimitar special bridge is comprised of a small bridge, thaleron chamber and a small corridor linking the two. That's it.
    It's AWESOME! sure it could use improvements, but it's great as-is.
    The Rom ships don't have trophy placement.
    This is annoying.
    Roms don't have any special t4 Diplomacy rewards (beyond the new transwarp shortcut that Fed and KDF have).
    What would that BE anyways?
    No, they weren't ready. Still aren't.
    Yeah, you listed a few minor gripes.....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited October 2013
    Ill say it again... Ready? Yes. Rushed? Yes. Done? No. FUBARED A**HAT Game mechanics that shoehorn you into being a minion? F***ing annoying but I dont see them ever undoing all that work no matter how much we want/demand/plead for it. Questionable plot and storyline? Well thats been hashed, rehashed, minced, diced, dissected, given several autopsies, and then hashed again. (thats not to say that the story they gave us is low quality, but very 'not romulan' imo and leaves a bitter taste)
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  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Ill say it again... Ready? Yes. Rushed? Yes. Done? No. FUBARED A**HAT Game mechanics that shoehorn you into being a minion? F***ing annoying but I dont see them ever undoing all that work no matter how much we want/demand/plead for it. Questionable plot and storyline? Well thats been hashed, rehashed, minced, diced, dissected, given several autopsies, and then hashed again. (thats not to say that the story they gave us is low quality, but very 'not romulan' imo and leaves a bitter taste)

    You do know they were based off of all things...bajorans i remember reading a thread about it just before or maybe after LoR Launch
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You do know they were based off of all things...bajorans i remember reading a thread about it just before or maybe after LoR Launch

    that and the Rebel Alliance from star wars
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • gurluasgurluas Member Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    My experience with my first character being Romulan has been good so far.
    The lack of a BOFF slot irritated me as I didn't want to get rid of any of the original crew I picked up. I ended up removing Hiven and keeping the rest as I wanted a Vulcan in my crew

    Other than that, it was good. To those disappointed as to what the Romulans are here, keep in mind they have been through a lot. The playable Romulans aren't the hardline military types, those are in Sela's Empire and in the Tal Shi'ar.

    Of course, your character can be what it wants to be as in any roleplay setting, but the general Republic faction is composed of Romulans who are sick of the Empire and who wants a new home without war to rebuild their people? after all they've suffered when they lost their homeworld. Losing your home and being alone in a galaxy makes you become more modest.

    This is similar to the High elves in Blizzard's MMO who went through a similar split. With the High elves changing their ideals, becoming modest and surviving at any cost, while the Blood elves delved deeper in a path of arrogance, becoming more evil and destructive. (Until Wotlk but that's besides the point)

    TLDR, the Romulan work for what they are, and their gameplay experience is very fun, although they do not feel like a proper faction, they may feel like one in the future as more content is added.
  • varnoukhvarnoukh Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    enoemg wrote: »
    However, everything else seems horribly downgraded from the other two factions, from uniforms (major bugs, can't even get my Romulan to look good without using the default Republic Uniform) to Bridge Officers like Tovan (the Wesley Crusher of the Romulan Republic) being bugged.

    There are certainly bugs and other problems but I think they did a great job with Romulan uniforms. There aren't as many options as for the other factions but the 3 (?) romfed uniforms can be made to look amazing if you fiddle with the colours and combinations. And you can add some variety by giving a little nod to your federation buddies and colour theming your boff uniforms by career.
  • fathergunbadfathergunbad Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Hi everyone,
    For what that's worth I just played STO last night as a Romulan, first STO gaming session since about 6 weeks after release, and I had a blast.

    I really thought that the starting story line and the first few hours of game play for the Romulan faction were awesome in comparison to what I experienced in other two factions at launch.

    Keep in mind though that I am a very casual player so a lot of things that might might bother others don't bother me.
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I just started playing the Romulan faction yesterday and so far, I'm actually quite enjoying it. I don't see why people hate Tovan, though. He's a little snarky, yes, but he has a personality and all, so he's quite okay in my books.

    Right now, my only gripe is that choosing ships for your chosen faction is actually quite limited: Romulan ships are free, but you can only choose Fed/KDF ships either by pouring in Dilithium (which you really don't have at that point) or hoping you have a C-Store-bought ship on hand.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I don't see why people hate Tovan, though. He's a little snarky, yes, but he has a personality and all, so he's quite okay in my books.

    You really should not have said that. Now the haters will be only too happy to repeat their excuses (and don't we already have more than enough threads devoted to the topic of hatred for Tovan without yet another getting usurped as a soapbox for that?).

    If you would like to know what the haters have to say, pick one of the five or six (I'm not exaggerating! and I think there are even more than that; that's just the number of threads I can think of that are devoted to the subject off the top of my head after just waking up and having only one cup of tea so far) threads on the subject and read (I suggest the one with the title "New reason to want to kill Tovan Khev," since a few voices of sanity have attempted to talk sense there, at least in the earlier pages).
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I just started playing the Romulan faction yesterday and so far, I'm actually quite enjoying it. I don't see why people hate Tovan, though. He's a little snarky, yes, but he has a personality and all, so he's quite okay in my books.

    Near as I can tell, player customization is the root of the problem:

    -- Feds and Klinks can choose their entire boff list. Feds don't have to use Corspa if they want to create a particular theme or RP for their ship. I used her, but I used the customization options to make her my own. Klinks don't have to use whatever their tutorial boffs are called. Pointy-ears are stuck with Tovan, having to write their backstory around his rather than the other way around. Want an all-Reman crew? Too ****ing bad: you've got an unremovable Romulan first officer.
    -- Tovan is buggy, on top of the department heads bug that LOR introduced. If you don't have him slotted for the above reason, he frequently reslots himself or appears in missions even when he isn't physically there.
    -- Initially Tovan wasn't even customizable in appearance.

    Hence him being, in the haters' minds, the STO equivalent of Neelix and/or Wesley.
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  • carasucia83carasucia83 Member Posts: 568 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gurluas wrote: »
    Other than that, it was good. To those disappointed as to what the Romulans are here, keep in mind they have been through a lot. The playable Romulans aren't the hardline military types, those are in Sela's Empire and in the Tal Shi'ar.

    This for me has never been the issue. I'll repeat what I've said in other posts here but, while it's true that I wanted a true faction, complete with fleets and starbases, whether they are Tal Shiar antagonist Roms or D'Tan's New Romulus Epohh Hugging Hippy Brigade is neither here nor there. In fact, given JJ's silly plot device (why couldn't Nero have been from Narendra III? Or Hobus II?), I think Cryptic did a remarkable job to build a story for the Romulans from what was left for them.

    The most common arguments that I've seen as reasons why a full 3rd faction could not and did not happen are, among others:

    People not wanting to start their fleets over again, something that I can understand as it takes a long time and a lot of effort, but it's also something which more than just a handful of people went ahead and did anyway, so that is kind of a moot point, and if they had been made a full faction and this were the only issue with Romulans, I doubt there would be many threads saying 'make Roms sub-faction minions of Fed/KDF.

    The whole diluting the player base argument. This would stand and I would totally agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that PvP is supposed to be going cross faction 'soon (TM)' and the fact that most of the endgame content is cross faction anyway. Plus, if you log in and wander around the map, you can't possibly come back and tell me that not enough people are playing as Romulans to warrant a change in this respect.

    So, assuming PvP does go cross faction at some point, I'm left wondering where this supposed dilution of the player base would have occurred. The only real place I can think of where a level 50 character might encounter problems in this regard would be the fleet actions, as has been a problem for the KDF in the past and the 'lessons they learned from that' are the supposed reason they made the subfaction move in the first place. Why didn't they fix the problem with the KDF instead and kill two birds with one stone? Thus improving the queue wait times for KDF and making all the players that, sad as it may seem to some, had been waiting 3 years for Roms very happy in the process - or rather, not irritating them with weak and often rather transparent excuses.

    The bottom line is that it was a business decision. It just sounded better to sell it as a gameplay issue. *edit* I also resent having my intelligence insulted by the 'liaison' system sold as being better than having a full faction. *edit*
    "So my fun is wrong?"

    No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
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