Tycho, Black Spot
Phase Inversion (For Escaping), Sheild Adaptive Frequency (For lol Healz), Anihilation Mode
4x Mk XI Very Rare Disruptor
Weapons:
4x Nanite Disruptor Dual Heavys Mk XI (Acc) x3
3x Nanite Turret Mk XI (Acc) x3
Red Matter, and Phase Console.
Basic Cheese Build....
It underperformed in just about every category, my Scimitar could keep just as many target in its range of fire, and defend its self better. My D'Deridex could even out DPS this thing. No matter what I did I could not shake the feeling that I was playing with a Dhelan that lacked a Tac Console, and had terrible boff seating.
Please Delay this ship for just a little while longer, it needs work. If you put it out there as is, I will not buy it. It is not competetive, nor is its console useful to me in any way.
Cliff notes of test:
Pros: Console allowed for heavy sustained Plasma DMG during tank breaking.
Pros: Turns faster then the Oddy...
Pros: Familiar Weapon Slotting
Cons: Slower turn then most escorts
Cons: Weak Firepower for being Tacticaly focused
Cons: Slow speed capacity compaired to modern escorts
Cons: Needs Cloak to face most targets
Cons: Very squishy and thus has low survivability
Cons: Unfamiliar Boff loadout, feels like a nerfed Andorian
Will only be interested in the fleet version why? Well i personally it would need to be better than my fleet mogai, as it stands the T5 version just doesn't suit my play style, oh a side note will you be making awesome looking sci ships anytime soon? ( come on cryptic show us you care... pretty please )
Cons: Slower turn then most escorts
Cons: Weak Firepower for being Tacticaly focused
Cons: Slow speed capacity compaired to modern escorts
Cons: Needs Cloak to face most targets
Cons: Very squishy and thus has low survivability
Cons: Unfamiliar Boff loadout, feels like a nerfed Andorian
I really have to wonder if your testing the same ship as the rest of us...
Slower turn rate? it's base is 16? every single other escort in the game is 14-18 and the average is 17 so this is only 1 slower. Even the Andorian is 16 turn rate.
Weak firepower? well 4/3 weapons and 4 tac slots so i'm assuming you mean the lt boff instead of ltcmdr boff slot, so if thats what you mean i can't say anything about that, your right. but weapon slot and tac slots it's the same as all other escorts.
Slow Speed. Again, are you testing the same ship? this ship has actually had a faster speed than most of my other escorts, though i will admit i just got my elite core which boosts engine power and i haven't had much time testing my other ships.
Needs to cloak. not with that turn rate it doesn't, i have no issues maneuvering this ship around any enemy.
Squishy. Completely disagree, even with the T5 version I've had better survivability compared to my fleet ha'feh, not sure why but i have.
Unfamiliar boff layout. Can't say anything to this it is.
Eng: valdore console, plasmonic leech
sci: rom zero point, assimilated, embass plasma infused emitter
tac 4x 28.1% plasma consoles.
I've also experimented with taking out the DBB and the assimilated for the quad and console. Also tested with removing the assimilated and toss in a fleet mine neutro+hullHP and that really helped with the survivability as well.
I really have to wonder if your testing the same ship as the rest of us...
Slower turn rate? it's base is 16? every single other escort in the game is 14-18 and the average is 17 so this is only 1 slower. Even the Andorian is 16 turn rate.
Weak firepower? well 4/3 weapons and 4 tac slots so i'm assuming you mean the lt boff instead of ltcmdr boff slot, so if thats what you mean i can't say anything about that, your right. but weapon slot and tac slots it's the same as all other escorts.
Slow Speed. Again, are you testing the same ship? this ship has actually had a faster speed than most of my other escorts, though i will admit i just got my elite core which boosts engine power and i haven't had much time testing my other ships.
Needs to cloak. not with that turn rate it doesn't, i have no issues maneuvering this ship around any enemy.
Squishy. Completely disagree, even with the T5 version I've had better survivability compared to my fleet ha'feh, not sure why but i have.
Unfamiliar boff layout. Can't say anything to this it is.
Eng: valdore console, plasmonic leech
sci: rom zero point, assimilated, embass plasma infused emitter
tac 4x 28.1% plasma consoles.
I've also experimented with taking out the DBB and the assimilated for the quad and console. Also tested with removing the assimilated and toss in a fleet mine neutro+hullHP and that really helped with the survivability as well.
I've done elite level missions as well as some of the harder romulan missions and never had any issues or feelings like what your describing.
I understand your rush to defend it... Ok I dont... But it is weaker in every category then what would be expected of an escort. The defiant will Roflstomp it, and I mean the non fleet one. God help this ship, since it is weak. I test ships by fighting 20+ ships at once, my Scimitar, and even my Dhelan has far better survivability then this. It is just sub par in my opinion. As for FAW and RF2??? I dont get what your going for on your setup?
I understand your rush to defend it... Ok I dont... But it is weaker in every category then what would be expected of an escort. The defiant will Roflstomp it, and I mean the non fleet one. God help this ship, since it is weak. I test ships by fighting 20+ ships at once, my Scimitar, and even my Dhelan has far better survivability then this. It is just sub par in my opinion. As for FAW and RF2??? I dont get what your going for on your setup?
basically i just don't think it's anywhere near as bad as your making it out to be. The ONLY category it's weak in is boff slots. Everything else it's exactly the same as other escorts. Lets go compare it to the T5 defiant.
And i find it interesting that you said how slow the tacbird is, yet you praise the dhelan that has the same turn rate.
I'm not trying to fight you here but your posts make no sense, you say it's garbage compared to ships that are incredibly similar and you say that it's slow and terrible when a ship you like has the same speed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and i have no doubt that you've tested yours and come to this valid conclusion, but saying the ship is garbage and then saying other ships are great when they're almost the same just makes no sense sir.
I've seen you around a lot and i have no doubt that your a great player, your hate towards this ship just makes no sense to me.
Sure the boff layout is a little strange and takes a bit away from the tac unless you run the uni as a tac in which case it has an insane amount of tac slots that i don't even know what you'd do with but thats no reason to just say it's garbage when it's still a fine ship just not the best ship.
*edit*TLDR version. i'm not defending it to say that it's better than the ships your mentioning, just that it's not the useless terrible garbage that you and some others are making it seem.
I have evaluated the ship on the terms of compairing it to the available ships in game, 2 years ago this ship would have been competetive. But now, the Dhelan, Mogai, and other Romulan Warbirds meet or exceed the same tactical capabilities. In fact I struggle to think of a single ship that the romulans have, that does not meet more then one of the capabilites. I am still testing this ship against other in PvP, and PvE. As I test it, i see it compairs at best to the T4 Defiant. T5 Defiant has more Tactical prowess. Seing as it is more able to slot Tactical bridge seating without killing its self.
Lt Science (This provides Science holds, or heals)
Ens Engineering ( This is really not enough to cycle heals or provide usefull heals in a timely manner)
Ltcmdr Uni (If we do not make this Engie... then you will not have heals... period. Even Aux2Batt doffing does not provide much survivability when compaired to a Defiant)
The Defiant atleast has one Lt Engie and one Lt Sci (for good cycle of heals). This ships is either not tactically focused, or somewhat Engie focused. Please compare the ships on overall capabilities. As if she is focused into her designed function. Does she have many heals or resists? The answer is no. Can she compete with a defiant in Toe to Toe fighting? I believe no, I can still use this ship and stomp any ship with a bad pilot, but pilot skill set aside, it is at a disadvantage.
In PvE this ship will perform fine. Will it out DPS a bug? No. Will it out DPS a Scimitar? No. Will it out DPS a Defiant? No. Can it turn as fast as a Defiant? No. Can it turn as fast as a Mogai? No... because it lacks the engie space to allow for RCS boosting.
It can not survive as well as already established designs. This makes it a very undesirable ship in my opinion. If it were made to compete with escorts that are already available, such as the Defiant, by even making the smallest alteration then it would be atleast versitile.
Cmdr Tactical For Pew
Ltcmdr Uni For Pew, Sci, or Heals
Lt Engie For Heals on Cycle
Lt Sci For Heals, Holds, or Resists
Ens Tac For Pew (Probly TT)
This would make it competetive with the Defiant, even with a slightly slower turn rate. In all other situations, this ship is at a disadvantage, having no specialty outside of possible Science Spam. The ship is ment to be Tactical, but carries the same curse as the 5 Tac Andy. When you go specialized you get weak, when you drop the 5th tac console, you get some survivability.
basically i just don't think it's anywhere near as bad as your making it out to be. The ONLY category it's weak in is boff slots. Everything else it's exactly the same as other escorts. Lets go compare it to the T5 defiant.
And i find it interesting that you said how slow the tacbird is, yet you praise the dhelan that has the same turn rate.
I'm not trying to fight you here but your posts make no sense, you say it's garbage compared to ships that are incredibly similar and you say that it's slow and terrible when a ship you like has the same speed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and i have no doubt that you've tested yours and come to this valid conclusion, but saying the ship is garbage and then saying other ships are great when they're almost the same just makes no sense sir.
I've seen you around a lot and i have no doubt that your a great player, your hate towards this ship just makes no sense to me.
Sure the boff layout is a little strange and takes a bit away from the tac unless you run the uni as a tac in which case it has an insane amount of tac slots that i don't even know what you'd do with but thats no reason to just say it's garbage when it's still a fine ship just not the best ship.
*edit*TLDR version. i'm not defending it to say that it's better than the ships your mentioning, just that it's not the useless terrible garbage that you and some others are making it seem.
Alright, as opposed to calling the ship Garbage, or insulting it let me show you what my evaluation of the ship has shown me.
Currently I own every Romulan Ship. This has afforded me to chance to compair ships against every other ship in the sister fleet. As such I began testing this ship with the strict intent of Aux2Batting it. Since it was what appeared to be most effective on my Mogai (since it shares a similar boff loadout). I did however consider using a Science Ltcmdr but the lac of available Engineering heals detered that choice. It is also what discouraged me from considering a Ltcmdr Tactical officer seating.
Once my Choice was made, I began to evaluate Firepower. She can do just as much DPS as the T5 non-fleet Defiant. This is not bad, it means she can do the same DPS as the Mogai, even Fleet Mogai. This vodes well. I then began to test her manuverability, against other ships such as my Scimitar, Dhelan, Mogai, and my Fed Defiant. Which the ship performed on the same scale as the Dhelan, lacking somewhat the area on its consoles to buff its turn rate up. Hence it does have a disadvantage in this area. I then began to test the durability, which matches that of a mogai, except the low amount of heals available. It can accomidate, but must be forced onto a player. Which makes the Ltcmdr Universal not and advantage in versatility. Her Pivot point seemed OK, infact she pivoted very well to keep her guns pointed. Unfortunately, she only matches already existing ships. Not exceeding the expectations of other ships with comperable firepower is a black mark in my book.
I then began to see how her combat capabilites hold up, this included using the Consoles she could provide. For this test I did not use the quad Plasma Cannons, seeing as I was using Disruptor base weaponry. The DPS did indeed match the Defiant (Non-Fleet), and her turnrate felt OK when cloaked. I then began to experiment in using the Plasma Stream from her annihilation mode in combination with mid range alphas to determine its true usefulness in combat. (since in most PvP combat, the initial alpha strike runs a very high risk of loosing your target since the opponent most likely has all of his bridge officer abilites to call upon to evade.) I noticed it did to considerable damage, and even helped to melt hull once the shield had failed. The downside is it does about 45k Damage to a non resisting target over the course of 20 seconds. A rather lengthy time, in fact worse then the Scimitar's 12 second wait. The good news is you can move and use boffs while firing. So it is better in that respect. Downside is, it lacks the rapid DPS emission of consoles that the Mogai or Dhelan possess. Which both deal thier damage rapidly or do not require a consistent lock on the target.
I then began testing her tanking ability, which left me a bit surprised. Even with RSP instead of Aux2Batt, she will like to drop shields. Most escorts have this issue, but it feels more apparent on this one, due to the forced focus on Engineering. Which was not taken into account when they developed the numbers for her Shield Modifier. She is there for in my opinion vulnerable to Alpha Strikes. This is typical, but more extreme on this ship. The other thing that cropped up in her testing, was the speed of the ship seems to help her defence, but her speed is going to be limited during combat, strongly due to the lack of Tactical Bridge Officer Seating. Which at this point was becoming a real issue.
My final findings were, to recomend against buying the ship as is. It lacks the ability to fly as the ship it was intended to be. Which I thought was to be an escort. Her Tactical Focusing is comparable to, if not a clone of, the Mogai. Which leaves me with no real need for the ship. Can the ship compete with non-fleet ships? Yes, but recent non-fleet ships such as the Vesta, Scimitar, Lock Box ships, ect. all have a slight edge on it. Thus I would rule it to loose value in competing there. Its ability to compete against other escorts is also something to be drawn into question, as it is a ship that knowledge is required before you purchase. Since the first build that one thinks of, is very weak due to lacking survivability (Tactical focusing with Ltcmdr Tactical). In Conclusion (Yes I am aware of the terrible nature of using "In Conclusion" to end any arguement), the ship is less in capability when compaired to currently available ships. Thus the ship is Sub Par, and not a ship that one would expect to be available for Purchase. Since the ship would essentailly be Paying to Loose.
This was my full evaluation, every step I used to Evaluate her is in here. Please Read carefully as I tried to be very detailed. As for the ship being "Garbage"... 2 Years ago, it would have been effective, very effective. But today... It is Garbage.
the Quad Cannons should be at least accx2, even better with accx4. DMG is the worst modifier in the game atm. The ship has a lot of potential, great job on the art!
Alright, as opposed to calling the ship Garbage, or insulting it let me show you what my evaluation of the ship has shown me.
This was my full evaluation, every step I used to Evaluate her is in here. Please Read carefully as I tried to be very detailed. As for the ship being "Garbage"... 2 Years ago, it would have been effective, very effective. But today... It is Garbage.
Excellent points all around, and I'll agree with just about all of them especially when looking at the PVP aspect. The one issue i take with it is that you simply can't compare this to any fleet ships as you mention because it isn't. But there is also no reason to assume that there won't be a fleet version released with the ship that will have the +10% hull and shield as well as a 5th console, though where that 5th console would go is anyones guess. I would assume tactical but possibly not.
Personally i am not a PVP player so many of the issues that you have with the ship would never affect a player like me. And as i've said and i'll agree again that yes stat wise the fleet defiant, mogai, and dhelan are superior in stats.
Is the non-fleet version of this ship on par with fleet? no, absolutely not. is it on par with the non-fleet mogai and dhelan? slightly but they are better. but this ship, at least from my observations was never meant to 'replace' those ships but more to be an alternate option for the d'dex and also be an alternate ship to the ha'feh which is the ship it actually is closest too IMO though yes it is also similar to the mogai in boff and dhelan in hull/consoles buit the dhelan has more shield and also happens to be an ugly flying chicken (in my opinion).
I still have to strongly disagree that the ship is garbage and it's fleet version will be more than good enough for any PVE content including eliteSTF in my opinion. Will it be the best romulan ship? absolutely not. and it wont' be anywhere near the best PVP romulan ships, but it will be a good ship thats worth flying for those players like myself who love the look and design of the ship and have good setups for it.
Excellent points all around, and I'll agree with just about all of them especially when looking at the PVP aspect. The one issue i take with it is that you simply can't compare this to any fleet ships as you mention because it isn't. But there is also no reason to assume that there won't be a fleet version released with the ship that will have the +10% hull and shield as well as a 5th console, though where that 5th console would go is anyones guess. I would assume tactical but possibly not.
Personally i am not a PVP player so many of the issues that you have with the ship would never affect a player like me. And as i've said and i'll agree again that yes stat wise the fleet defiant, mogai, and dhelan are superior in stats.
Is the non-fleet version of this ship on par with fleet? no, absolutely not. is it on par with the non-fleet mogai and dhelan? slightly but they are better. but this ship, at least from my observations was never meant to 'replace' those ships but more to be an alternate option for the d'dex and also be an alternate ship to the ha'feh which is the ship it actually is closest too IMO though yes it is also similar to the mogai in boff and dhelan in hull/consoles buit the dhelan has more shield and also happens to be an ugly flying chicken (in my opinion).
I still have to strongly disagree that the ship is garbage and it's fleet version will be more than good enough for any PVE content including eliteSTF in my opinion. Will it be the best romulan ship? absolutely not. and it wont' be anywhere near the best PVP romulan ships, but it will be a good ship thats worth flying for those players like myself who love the look and design of the ship and have good setups for it.
You do make some very good points, especially considering that yes it is not a Fleet ship. Compairing it to those is grocely unfair. I also see that it is ment to offer an option other then the D'Dex for Romulan Players. Granted they have the whole list of ships the faction they chose provide. But still... it is not a romulan ship. We will differ on opinion of the ship's worth. But it is like you said, not useless. Just I see it as far from useful considering the handicap that I see from my perspective playstyle.
Sorry about not making my points clearer earlier, but I am not used to having to do so :P
You do make some very good points, especially considering that yes it is not a Fleet ship. Compairing it to those is grocely unfair. I also see that it is ment to offer an option other then the D'Dex for Romulan Players. Granted they have the whole list of ships the faction they chose provide. But still... it is not a romulan ship. We will differ on opinion of the ship's worth. But it is like you said, not useless. Just I see it as far from useful considering the handicap that I see from my perspective playstyle.
Sorry about not making my points clearer earlier, but I am not used to having to do so :P
Agreed.
It is almost guaranteed to have a Fleet version. Maybe not on release as they have not mentioned it as of yet, but pretty soon after I should imagine.
To be honest, the only real problem is the boff seating.
As it stands there is no reason to get this ship if you are a vet, and/or you have any of the other current (T'Varo, Dhelan, Mogai and Ha'Feh) warbirds.
Make it a Vesta clone, or the very least a Cmdr Science station, and you will have a place for it
QFT
If I want a battle cloak CMD Egr you have to choose the DD. If I want a battle cloak CMD Tac, this is more of the same.
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
You do make some very good points, especially considering that yes it is not a Fleet ship. Compairing it to those is grocely unfair. I also see that it is ment to offer an option other then the D'Dex for Romulan Players. Granted they have the whole list of ships the faction they chose provide. But still... it is not a romulan ship. We will differ on opinion of the ship's worth. But it is like you said, not useless. Just I see it as far from useful considering the handicap that I see from my perspective playstyle.
Sorry about not making my points clearer earlier, but I am not used to having to do so :P
No problem. It was great to have a debate on the internet without resulting to memes and yo mamma jokes lol.
It is almost guaranteed to have a Fleet version. Maybe not on release as they have not mentioned it as of yet, but pretty soon after I should imagine.
A lot of people would be very angry if it didn't have a fleet version at launch. If i'm correct the only ships that we've had to wait for a fleet version were the Fleet Assault Cruiser and i think the Fleet Advanced Cruiser.
When they added the Ambassador class that got a fleet version instantly so i see no reason why this one shouldn't.
Excellent points all around, and I'll agree with just about all of them especially when looking at the PVP aspect. The one issue i take with it is that you simply can't compare this to any fleet ships as you mention because it isn't. But there is also no reason to assume that there won't be a fleet version released with the ship that will have the +10% hull and shield as well as a 5th console, though where that 5th console would go is anyones guess. I would assume tactical but possibly not.
You know what would not surprise me is if a fleet version came out with (in addition to a universal Lt. Cmdr slot) had the tac LT slot turned universal as well.
Can you imagine what THAT would do to this build? ... And can you also imagine how much MORE money Cryptic would make off THAT because of this BOFF layout many question with this base build they are putting in the standard c-store model?
They would then see all of us who have been sitting on the fence and not getting it then getting it for the fleet ship module discount as we also rush to buy the fleet ship version.
That's my bet on this. That's what I bet they are thinking and planning.
If it came with a Fleet version when it was released, I would buy both in a heartbeat. I can't really imagine them making the LT. Com. Eng and Lt. Tac Boff slots universal (as AMAZING as that would be), but I can imagine them making the Lt. Com. slot Tac and giving it 2 Lt. Uni slots. Right now, I'm between buying the Scimitar and this because I love the look of the Tactical Warbird and the beam attack you get is pretty nifty.
If it came with a Fleet version when it was released, I would buy both in a heartbeat. I can't really imagine them making the LT. Com. Eng and Lt. Tac Boff slots universal (as AMAZING as that would be), but I can imagine them making the Lt. Com. slot Tac and giving it 2 Lt. Uni slots. Right now, I'm between buying the Scimitar and this because I love the look of the Tactical Warbird and the beam attack you get is pretty nifty.
You know what would not surprise me is if a fleet version came out with (in addition to a universal Lt. Cmdr slot) had the tac LT slot turned universal as well.
Can you imagine what THAT would do to this build? ... And can you also imagine how much MORE money Cryptic would make off THAT because of this BOFF layout many question with this base build they are putting in the standard c-store model?
They would then see all of us who have been sitting on the fence and not getting it then getting it for the fleet ship module discount as we also rush to buy the fleet ship version.
That's my bet on this. That's what I bet they are thinking and planning.
and i really hope you are right because that would be pretty damn awesome.
I've decided this ship is baddazz. I can't wait until it is released. Great job on the BoFF seating. I can kill a Vorcha in a flat out attack run in like 3 seconds. Plasma Cannon FTW!
I've decided this ship is baddazz. I can't wait until it is released. Great job on the BoFF seating. I can kill a Vorcha in a flat out attack run in like 3 seconds. Plasma Cannon FTW!
BORTICUS: I know you might be tempted to change it up, but please leave it just like it is!
Just make sure to give us a FLEET variant
I see nothing of how yours is set up. What is worse it appears that you set up your ship focusing on Tactical, meaning you made the Ltcmdr Universal into a Tactical Boff..... If not then you do not use Tactical Team??? Also, please do not assume that killing a NPC Vorcha is a good bench mark for declaring the ship good. It is very underpowered in terms of comparison to other ships of the same Tier.
Sorry, but even with Borg Regeneration going. You would still melt in seconds if you did not use the Ltcmdr Universal for Engineering. Please also include your build, as your Buff Bar was too much of a mess to make many assumptions on what you did with it.
No fleet variant is unfortunate, as apparently many Romulans already use Fleet Dhelans, Mogais. Of course, for those, there will be no reason whatsoever to get the new ship...
I was merely comparing it with C-Store Tier 5 ships, and there, in my opinion, it played a really nice role (I like Boff setups of 6, 4, 2).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
The lack of a fleet version is incredibly stupid it does not take that much to just copy a ship and add the extra stats, and i really doubt the fleet skin would take that long either.
It's hard to really give an opinion on the ship without knowing what it's fleet variant is like. That extra console could make all the difference in builds and such.
An engineer console slot will mean an extra space for universal consoles (Ah, I remember when sci console slots used to be for universal console dumping).
An extra sci console slot could make it a shield tanker or effective mid-sci ship that some Romulan players have been looking for.
An extra tac console slot would make it an equivalent of the fleet advanced escort.
As it stands it looks to be an effective escort for Romulans (read - just as OP as the rest of the Rom escorts).
I do wish we could adjust customize it's appearance on tribble.
Comments
I used the following to attempt to make it a very mean ship.
Doffs, 3 Purple Techs (Aux2Hax), 2 Purple BFI doffs (Fake RSP)
Consoles:
Tycho, Black Spot
Phase Inversion (For Escaping), Sheild Adaptive Frequency (For lol Healz), Anihilation Mode
4x Mk XI Very Rare Disruptor
Weapons:
4x Nanite Disruptor Dual Heavys Mk XI (Acc) x3
3x Nanite Turret Mk XI (Acc) x3
Red Matter, and Phase Console.
Basic Cheese Build....
It underperformed in just about every category, my Scimitar could keep just as many target in its range of fire, and defend its self better. My D'Deridex could even out DPS this thing. No matter what I did I could not shake the feeling that I was playing with a Dhelan that lacked a Tac Console, and had terrible boff seating.
Please Delay this ship for just a little while longer, it needs work. If you put it out there as is, I will not buy it. It is not competetive, nor is its console useful to me in any way.
Cliff notes of test:
Pros: Console allowed for heavy sustained Plasma DMG during tank breaking.
Pros: Turns faster then the Oddy...
Pros: Familiar Weapon Slotting
Cons: Slower turn then most escorts
Cons: Weak Firepower for being Tacticaly focused
Cons: Slow speed capacity compaired to modern escorts
Cons: Needs Cloak to face most targets
Cons: Very squishy and thus has low survivability
Cons: Unfamiliar Boff loadout, feels like a nerfed Andorian
I really have to wonder if your testing the same ship as the rest of us...
Slower turn rate? it's base is 16? every single other escort in the game is 14-18 and the average is 17 so this is only 1 slower. Even the Andorian is 16 turn rate.
Weak firepower? well 4/3 weapons and 4 tac slots so i'm assuming you mean the lt boff instead of ltcmdr boff slot, so if thats what you mean i can't say anything about that, your right. but weapon slot and tac slots it's the same as all other escorts.
Slow Speed. Again, are you testing the same ship? this ship has actually had a faster speed than most of my other escorts, though i will admit i just got my elite core which boosts engine power and i haven't had much time testing my other ships.
Needs to cloak. not with that turn rate it doesn't, i have no issues maneuvering this ship around any enemy.
Squishy. Completely disagree, even with the T5 version I've had better survivability compared to my fleet ha'feh, not sure why but i have.
Unfamiliar boff layout. Can't say anything to this it is.
I'll go ahead and post my setup from my testing.
3x RomPlas DHC crith critd 1x RomPlas DBB crith crird
2x RomPlas Turret crith critd 1x KCB
Adapted Maco Deflector
Adapted Maco Engines
Elite Fleet Shields+Engines sing core
Maco Shields
Eng: valdore console, plasmonic leech
sci: rom zero point, assimilated, embass plasma infused emitter
tac 4x 28.1% plasma consoles.
I've also experimented with taking out the DBB and the assimilated for the quad and console. Also tested with removing the assimilated and toss in a fleet mine neutro+hullHP and that really helped with the survivability as well.
for boffs.
tac4: FAW1, TT2, RF2, APO3
tac2: TT2, RF2
eng1: EpTW1
sci2: HE1, TSS2
Uni3 Eng: EptS1, ET2, DEM2
I've done elite level missions as well as some of the harder romulan missions and never had any issues or feelings like what your describing.
I understand your rush to defend it... Ok I dont... But it is weaker in every category then what would be expected of an escort. The defiant will Roflstomp it, and I mean the non fleet one. God help this ship, since it is weak. I test ships by fighting 20+ ships at once, my Scimitar, and even my Dhelan has far better survivability then this. It is just sub par in my opinion. As for FAW and RF2??? I dont get what your going for on your setup?
basically i just don't think it's anywhere near as bad as your making it out to be. The ONLY category it's weak in is boff slots. Everything else it's exactly the same as other escorts. Lets go compare it to the T5 defiant.
T5 Defiant:
Hull: 30,000
Turn: 17
Consoles: 3 eng, 2 sci, 4 tac
Boffs: 4 tac, 3 tac, 1 tac, 2 eng, 2 sci
Crew: 50
T5 Tac Warbird:
Hull: 31,500
Turn: 16
Consoles: 2 eng, 3 sci, 4 tac
Boffs: 4 tac, 2 tac, 2 sci, 1 eng, 3 uni
Crew: 300
Where is this stomping in stats? I sure don't see it. And you mention the Dhelan, so lets show those stats.
T5 Dhelan
Hull: 31,500
Turn: 16
Consoles: 2 eng, 3 sci, 4 tac
Boffs: 4 tac, 1 tac, 2 eng, 3 sci, 2 tac
Crew: 450
And i find it interesting that you said how slow the tacbird is, yet you praise the dhelan that has the same turn rate.
I'm not trying to fight you here but your posts make no sense, you say it's garbage compared to ships that are incredibly similar and you say that it's slow and terrible when a ship you like has the same speed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and i have no doubt that you've tested yours and come to this valid conclusion, but saying the ship is garbage and then saying other ships are great when they're almost the same just makes no sense sir.
I've seen you around a lot and i have no doubt that your a great player, your hate towards this ship just makes no sense to me.
Sure the boff layout is a little strange and takes a bit away from the tac unless you run the uni as a tac in which case it has an insane amount of tac slots that i don't even know what you'd do with but thats no reason to just say it's garbage when it's still a fine ship just not the best ship.
*edit*TLDR version. i'm not defending it to say that it's better than the ships your mentioning, just that it's not the useless terrible garbage that you and some others are making it seem.
Let me outline my Grievence for easyer reference.
Bridge Officer Seating:
Commander Tactical (This Provides Pew)
Lt Tactical (This Sures it up)
Lt Science (This provides Science holds, or heals)
Ens Engineering ( This is really not enough to cycle heals or provide usefull heals in a timely manner)
Ltcmdr Uni (If we do not make this Engie... then you will not have heals... period. Even Aux2Batt doffing does not provide much survivability when compaired to a Defiant)
The Defiant atleast has one Lt Engie and one Lt Sci (for good cycle of heals). This ships is either not tactically focused, or somewhat Engie focused. Please compare the ships on overall capabilities. As if she is focused into her designed function. Does she have many heals or resists? The answer is no. Can she compete with a defiant in Toe to Toe fighting? I believe no, I can still use this ship and stomp any ship with a bad pilot, but pilot skill set aside, it is at a disadvantage.
It can not survive as well as already established designs. This makes it a very undesirable ship in my opinion. If it were made to compete with escorts that are already available, such as the Defiant, by even making the smallest alteration then it would be atleast versitile.
Cmdr Tactical For Pew
Ltcmdr Uni For Pew, Sci, or Heals
Lt Engie For Heals on Cycle
Lt Sci For Heals, Holds, or Resists
Ens Tac For Pew (Probly TT)
This would make it competetive with the Defiant, even with a slightly slower turn rate. In all other situations, this ship is at a disadvantage, having no specialty outside of possible Science Spam. The ship is ment to be Tactical, but carries the same curse as the 5 Tac Andy. When you go specialized you get weak, when you drop the 5th tac console, you get some survivability.
Alright, as opposed to calling the ship Garbage, or insulting it let me show you what my evaluation of the ship has shown me.
Currently I own every Romulan Ship. This has afforded me to chance to compair ships against every other ship in the sister fleet. As such I began testing this ship with the strict intent of Aux2Batting it. Since it was what appeared to be most effective on my Mogai (since it shares a similar boff loadout). I did however consider using a Science Ltcmdr but the lac of available Engineering heals detered that choice. It is also what discouraged me from considering a Ltcmdr Tactical officer seating.
Once my Choice was made, I began to evaluate Firepower. She can do just as much DPS as the T5 non-fleet Defiant. This is not bad, it means she can do the same DPS as the Mogai, even Fleet Mogai. This vodes well. I then began to test her manuverability, against other ships such as my Scimitar, Dhelan, Mogai, and my Fed Defiant. Which the ship performed on the same scale as the Dhelan, lacking somewhat the area on its consoles to buff its turn rate up. Hence it does have a disadvantage in this area. I then began to test the durability, which matches that of a mogai, except the low amount of heals available. It can accomidate, but must be forced onto a player. Which makes the Ltcmdr Universal not and advantage in versatility. Her Pivot point seemed OK, infact she pivoted very well to keep her guns pointed. Unfortunately, she only matches already existing ships. Not exceeding the expectations of other ships with comperable firepower is a black mark in my book.
I then began to see how her combat capabilites hold up, this included using the Consoles she could provide. For this test I did not use the quad Plasma Cannons, seeing as I was using Disruptor base weaponry. The DPS did indeed match the Defiant (Non-Fleet), and her turnrate felt OK when cloaked. I then began to experiment in using the Plasma Stream from her annihilation mode in combination with mid range alphas to determine its true usefulness in combat. (since in most PvP combat, the initial alpha strike runs a very high risk of loosing your target since the opponent most likely has all of his bridge officer abilites to call upon to evade.) I noticed it did to considerable damage, and even helped to melt hull once the shield had failed. The downside is it does about 45k Damage to a non resisting target over the course of 20 seconds. A rather lengthy time, in fact worse then the Scimitar's 12 second wait. The good news is you can move and use boffs while firing. So it is better in that respect. Downside is, it lacks the rapid DPS emission of consoles that the Mogai or Dhelan possess. Which both deal thier damage rapidly or do not require a consistent lock on the target.
I then began testing her tanking ability, which left me a bit surprised. Even with RSP instead of Aux2Batt, she will like to drop shields. Most escorts have this issue, but it feels more apparent on this one, due to the forced focus on Engineering. Which was not taken into account when they developed the numbers for her Shield Modifier. She is there for in my opinion vulnerable to Alpha Strikes. This is typical, but more extreme on this ship. The other thing that cropped up in her testing, was the speed of the ship seems to help her defence, but her speed is going to be limited during combat, strongly due to the lack of Tactical Bridge Officer Seating. Which at this point was becoming a real issue.
My final findings were, to recomend against buying the ship as is. It lacks the ability to fly as the ship it was intended to be. Which I thought was to be an escort. Her Tactical Focusing is comparable to, if not a clone of, the Mogai. Which leaves me with no real need for the ship. Can the ship compete with non-fleet ships? Yes, but recent non-fleet ships such as the Vesta, Scimitar, Lock Box ships, ect. all have a slight edge on it. Thus I would rule it to loose value in competing there. Its ability to compete against other escorts is also something to be drawn into question, as it is a ship that knowledge is required before you purchase. Since the first build that one thinks of, is very weak due to lacking survivability (Tactical focusing with Ltcmdr Tactical). In Conclusion (Yes I am aware of the terrible nature of using "In Conclusion" to end any arguement), the ship is less in capability when compaired to currently available ships. Thus the ship is Sub Par, and not a ship that one would expect to be available for Purchase. Since the ship would essentailly be Paying to Loose.
This was my full evaluation, every step I used to Evaluate her is in here. Please Read carefully as I tried to be very detailed. As for the ship being "Garbage"... 2 Years ago, it would have been effective, very effective. But today... It is Garbage.
Pretty Good evaluation actually.
Thank You
Excellent points all around, and I'll agree with just about all of them especially when looking at the PVP aspect. The one issue i take with it is that you simply can't compare this to any fleet ships as you mention because it isn't. But there is also no reason to assume that there won't be a fleet version released with the ship that will have the +10% hull and shield as well as a 5th console, though where that 5th console would go is anyones guess. I would assume tactical but possibly not.
Personally i am not a PVP player so many of the issues that you have with the ship would never affect a player like me. And as i've said and i'll agree again that yes stat wise the fleet defiant, mogai, and dhelan are superior in stats.
Is the non-fleet version of this ship on par with fleet? no, absolutely not. is it on par with the non-fleet mogai and dhelan? slightly but they are better. but this ship, at least from my observations was never meant to 'replace' those ships but more to be an alternate option for the d'dex and also be an alternate ship to the ha'feh which is the ship it actually is closest too IMO though yes it is also similar to the mogai in boff and dhelan in hull/consoles buit the dhelan has more shield and also happens to be an ugly flying chicken (in my opinion).
I still have to strongly disagree that the ship is garbage and it's fleet version will be more than good enough for any PVE content including eliteSTF in my opinion. Will it be the best romulan ship? absolutely not. and it wont' be anywhere near the best PVP romulan ships, but it will be a good ship thats worth flying for those players like myself who love the look and design of the ship and have good setups for it.
You do make some very good points, especially considering that yes it is not a Fleet ship. Compairing it to those is grocely unfair. I also see that it is ment to offer an option other then the D'Dex for Romulan Players. Granted they have the whole list of ships the faction they chose provide. But still... it is not a romulan ship. We will differ on opinion of the ship's worth. But it is like you said, not useless. Just I see it as far from useful considering the handicap that I see from my perspective playstyle.
Sorry about not making my points clearer earlier, but I am not used to having to do so :P
Agreed.
It is almost guaranteed to have a Fleet version. Maybe not on release as they have not mentioned it as of yet, but pretty soon after I should imagine.
QFT
If I want a battle cloak CMD Egr you have to choose the DD. If I want a battle cloak CMD Tac, this is more of the same.
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
No problem. It was great to have a debate on the internet without resulting to memes and yo mamma jokes lol.
A lot of people would be very angry if it didn't have a fleet version at launch. If i'm correct the only ships that we've had to wait for a fleet version were the Fleet Assault Cruiser and i think the Fleet Advanced Cruiser.
When they added the Ambassador class that got a fleet version instantly so i see no reason why this one shouldn't.
You know what would not surprise me is if a fleet version came out with (in addition to a universal Lt. Cmdr slot) had the tac LT slot turned universal as well.
Can you imagine what THAT would do to this build? ... And can you also imagine how much MORE money Cryptic would make off THAT because of this BOFF layout many question with this base build they are putting in the standard c-store model?
They would then see all of us who have been sitting on the fence and not getting it then getting it for the fleet ship module discount as we also rush to buy the fleet ship version.
That's my bet on this. That's what I bet they are thinking and planning.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
I could live with that.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
and i really hope you are right because that would be pretty damn awesome.
I've decided this ship is baddazz. I can't wait until it is released. Great job on the BoFF seating. I can kill a Vorcha in a flat out attack run in like 3 seconds. Plasma Cannon FTW!
You can see how I set mine up right here: http://starfleetops.com/romulan-destroyer-1080-hd/
BORTICUS: I know you might be tempted to change it up, but please leave it just like it is!
Just make sure to give us a FLEET variant
I see nothing of how yours is set up. What is worse it appears that you set up your ship focusing on Tactical, meaning you made the Ltcmdr Universal into a Tactical Boff..... If not then you do not use Tactical Team??? Also, please do not assume that killing a NPC Vorcha is a good bench mark for declaring the ship good. It is very underpowered in terms of comparison to other ships of the same Tier.
Sorry, but even with Borg Regeneration going. You would still melt in seconds if you did not use the Ltcmdr Universal for Engineering. Please also include your build, as your Buff Bar was too much of a mess to make many assumptions on what you did with it.
I was merely comparing it with C-Store Tier 5 ships, and there, in my opinion, it played a really nice role (I like Boff setups of 6, 4, 2).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
very dumb decision.
An engineer console slot will mean an extra space for universal consoles (Ah, I remember when sci console slots used to be for universal console dumping).
An extra sci console slot could make it a shield tanker or effective mid-sci ship that some Romulan players have been looking for.
An extra tac console slot would make it an equivalent of the fleet advanced escort.
As it stands it looks to be an effective escort for Romulans (read - just as OP as the rest of the Rom escorts).
I do wish we could adjust customize it's appearance on tribble.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse