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Cryptic, Please consider making this game more fun and affordable.

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  • chris919ukchris919uk Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    As others have said the ftp model here is actually pretty fair. It doesn't charge you for extra story content like another mmo I can think of. All you really pay for are aesthetics, costumes, ships etc. However its your choice whether you pay for that or not, since with a lot of patience you can grind for everything.

    The only thing I wasn't so keen on was paying for respec tokens, however over time I have learnt how to level my skills correctly so I don't have to. Of course I could have grinded for those too, just didn't want to. That was my choice.

    As for lockboxes they help to fund the game and its development. True some people get a kick out of the rare goodies in them, I personally don't and delete them immediately since I don't like to gamble.
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  • risian5risian5 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The complaining about lockbox ships and the JHAS is just the same as always: it's about jealousy.

    Yes, other people have some nice exclusive ships, but try to understand that they are paying a lot of money to get it, and in doing so, they make it possible for free players to keep playing this game.

    Anyone can get a good ship, even the ships you get for free at level 40 are, if well equiped, very useable in end-game content. Does it really matter that much that there are some rare, exclusive ships out there? Some ships simply have to be special by being rare. If all ships were available to anyone, those ships wouldn't be interesting enough.
  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Another difference to a lot of other mmos and F2P titles is, that there hasn't been much item and level progression.

    Once you have you "best-in-slot" gear, which is way easier and faster to earn than in any other mmo out there, it's there to stay for a while. no new tier of raid dungeons, no new pvp seasons which would outdate your current gear.

    I have ships and captains out there, which haven't had any equipment change done to them in over half a year, with the exception of a warp core, simply because they reached the end of the ladder.
  • duaths1duaths1 Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stop the whining, we got Romulans, we'll get new content, the game is evolving.

    someone HAS to pay for it.

    btw - the game is playable without paying a dime. on a competitive level.
  • sunseahlsunseahl Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I know this is a free game to play,but is it though????

    Yes... Yes it is.... If you spend money on it... that's your problem.
    Member of the "Disenchanted"
    We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I know this is a free game to play,but is it though????


    The simple answer is yes. The rest of your post is based on the false premise that everyone has an MTV attention span. You don't have to have a Jem'Hadar b to be successful - mine is still crated.
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  • atalossataloss Member Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Well the answer to your questions is simple. Neverwinter is the new baby, so it gets all the attention. I enjoy neverwinter and I find myself saying "Why didn't they do something like this on STO?"

    Maybe Season 8 will have some of Neverwinters features or maybe it won't.

    What I've accepted is the fact that STO is the old cash cow. So lockbox content will always be alluring just so that you can pay cryptic some money for the lockbox keys. As stated before, you don't need the lockbox content but you want it. Now if the lockbox had some modular things to it (like parts for your own custom ship interior) then we'd be having a different conversation.
    One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    cgta1967 wrote: »
    it's possible to make 500K on all your alts in about five minutes each per day via foundry mass space battle missions, and then buy MK XI purples in the exchange.

    alts are not hard to gear up at all.

    and that was just one example...... if you use a little ingenuity and incentive, it is really easy.

    Can't get MACO/Omega/Borg sets without the reputation system. Yeah I can buy all kinds of other stuff but I want the gear I used to be able to get. It's not a question of grinding marks, it's a question of paying for then waiting on reputation projects.

    This is not an alt friendly game. The mk XII sets used to be a serious pain to get because of the random drop system, but the rest of the gear wasn't too bad...the more STFs you ran the faster you got them (if I remember correctly).
  • kain9primekain9prime Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I know this is a free game to play,but is it though????
    We all know that if you didn't spend any real cash in this game,progression would be dead slow,and more people would end up quitting this game.They would be fed up.
    One of the biggest problems is the dilithium cap at 8000 a day per toon.
    This is far too small and really drags the game to a dead slow pace.
    Yes I know cryptic is a business and they have to make their money,but surely theres a better fairer cheaper way of doing that.
    Take the jemhadar attack ship as an example. Very popular. How about selling it in the z store at an affordable price for all????I bet more people would buy it.
    The lock boxes. Totally unfair at the moment. Rubbish prizes from them most of the time.
    Changing the odds of winning to favour the player would be good,and if theres guaranteed very valueable prizes...
    Making dil is actually pretty easy, especially if you have more than one character. As for the lockboxes, it's called "gambling" and no one is forcing you to do it. Buying keys is a personal choice. The game moves at a slow pace? Umm...what's your hurry?

    That said, I'd love to see you try this kinda thing in real life...like tell your boss to make it so you do less work and get more money, or go to Las Vegas and tell the pit bosses to make sure the odds are in your favor since you want more money and prizes in return for just walking through the front door.

    What do you think the responses would be?

    :rolleyes:
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  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    One thing I can't criticize Cryptic/PWE for is their F2P model in STO. There are no 'must have' items in the Zen store, only 'want to has' stuff. The free playable races are plenty. The free on rank up ships are more than good enough. The consoles on the Zen store ships are highly situational, so I much prefer using standard consoles. At no time have I felt a 'need' to buy anything in the Zen store. The items I have purchased (such as additional BOff and DOff slots) are a convenience, not a game-play necessity. The Zen ships that I purchased are regrettable. I've never purchased keys and plan never to do so. Lock boxes that I don't sell on the exchange get discarded.
    This is not an alt friendly game.
    Ain't that the truth.
  • alarikunalarikun Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Didn't read OP, read thread title.

    How much more "affordable" can this game be than FREE!?
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  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    Cheaper prices more sales.
    Expensive prices less sales.

    This is ONLY true if the market will not bare the current cost... which it does... hell, i think they could RAISE prices, and still get a solid following of people (albeit, more complaining). Plus there is the need to keep items like the JHAS rare... so there is significant demand the NEXT time they release it. (Same goes for any ship with multiple releases).

    Trust me on this... they've already done the math... Prices will drop when people stop buying (i.e Sales)

    As others have said, this is a really decent F2P model... yes, it will take you time to get all the stuff you might want without spending a dime... but really, thats kinda the point... to entice you (not force you) to spend money. Those choosing to go completely F2P model (god bless... you have more stamina than I), need to understand that Cryptic STILL NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY... so... it only make sense that they entice you to spend real money... I'll tell you this much, I think they are extremely nice with their model... several other games aren't nearly as liberal.

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  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This is not an alt friendly game.

    I'd say it is quite alt-friendly.

    For one, the more alts you have the easier the game gets in terms of aquiring rescources.

    Secondly, and probably most importantly, I've never seen or played any other mmo where someone was able to level and equip an alt as fast as in STO, even if you take into account the reputation system.

    If you play efficiently, you can get an alt to 50 and have him geared up in best-in-slot gear, in less than 24 hours of ingame time without any help except that from random players in the queues. In most other mmos, you wouldn't even have reached levelcap in that time period.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Casual players are screwed unless they use $$$, but dedicated ones can get most of the stuff in this game without paying a cent. The exception are lock box items that require luck or a lot of EC.
  • gaevsprivsmangaevsprivsman Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I play my alts not so often.. so i cant level them THAT fast... anyway, i have some C.Store ships, just by playing, so, its quite fine for me :)

    And i'm a casual player, maybe 1 or 2 hours a day.. and i have a level 2 starbase :)
  • vermatrixvermatrix Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    While the lock boxes are a huge money pit with only the tiniest of chances of getting one of those special ships I find the game fairly cheap compared to other mmo games I've been to.
    I can give a few examples right now, Age of Armor, a defunct game that finally went belly up, probably because it's pvp model was based on who spent the most on armor enhancements in their cash shop with the cheapest item being over a hundred dollars. Runes of Magic, to play end game there you have to spend thousands a month in their cash shop, not even end game, just to get past level 40.
    Entropia Universe, now that ones the all time most expensive, you want a ship there? be ready to pay $500,000 to $20,000,000 for it. (I stopped playing it after about 20 minutes) lol and that's just a few, there are plenty of other games out there that cost way more than STO.
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  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    My Two cents worth
    One of the biggest problems is the dilithium cap at 8000 a day per toon.
    While I agree that the 800 cap can be a issue there is a doff assignment once you hit tier 2 I think of the dil mine to refine 500 more. Also switch toon as then you can grind again

    Take the jemhadar attack ship as an example. Very popular. How about selling it in the z store at an affordable price for all????This The Bug Ship one of the rarest ships in game. So Cryptic will never put it on the C store

    The lock boxes. Again this is Cryptics big money player but I wish they would give something better than doff packs and some of the rubbish they are giving I'm just selling keys at the moment and buy the best things of the exchange.

    Fleet projects. How about changing the dilithium rule there from refined to dilithium ore instead,to allow speedy progression for all fleets. I wish they would make things better for smaller fleets but can't see them doing this either

    Ground borg missions. Sorry but the borg adapted in the show so it's canon but make them better armed as well to make it a better challenge

    The drops in all patrols and missions. Currently they are mostly junk to just sell for EC.
    How about there being something more valueable and useful to use for a toon or a ship perhaps: Again will never happen
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  • purplegamerpurplegamer Member Posts: 1,015 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Just because you don't have to pay for something, doesn't mean there isn't an associated cost somewhere:

    http://www.417am.com/2013/09/free-to-play-games-are-awful-and.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,693 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    hrisvalar wrote: »
    STO has the most forgiving F2P system I've ever seen, even aside from the fact that it gives you the option to pay nothing at all, or pay others to do your grinding (though I'll admit there's a lot of it) for you. It leaves you a lot more options than you'll get almost anywhere else.

    As for the lockboxes, those aren't unique to STO, but the ships in them need to stay in them, if for no other reason than that as I understand it, starting with the JHAS, making the ships available to players ingame was only greenlit by the IP holder on the condition that they remain rare. (If virtually every player in the game is flying around in non-Federation, non-Klingon ships, it wouldn't look very much like a Star Trek game anymore.)

    that's why there needs to be a fed and klink ship with the same abilities as some ships. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE a Federation carrier with the same boff layout as the JHDC
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  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    aarons9 wrote: »
    this game really has the best f2p model there is.. you really dont have to spend a dime on this game and you can get full benefits as the people who do.

    I have to agree. STO is really anything but "p2w" (a much overused and abused term), and nothing in the C-Store has to be bought in order to play the game, nor to "win." Most of the people I see claiming that this or that game is "p2w" are those who seem to want to do nothing but PvP. PvP can be fun, sure, but there's so much to do in STO that it's not the only option available, and doing some of that other stuff can get the player epic gear without requiring him or her to pay one cent to the C-Shop for anything.

    The one thing to which the OP refers that I would like to see is a raise to the dilithium ore refining cap. 8k seems rather low and somewhat arbitrary. It's very possible to obtain more dil ore in a 24-hour period, but then you sit there waiting for the next day before you can refine any more. What with so many fleet projects calling for 200k dil, smaller fleets are at a significant disadvantage due to this limit. At the very least, it could be raised to 10k per day (although 20k would be best).
  • hrisvalarhrisvalar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    that's why there needs to be a fed and klink ship with the same abilities as some ships. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE a Federation carrier with the same boff layout as the JHDC
    Unlikely, but yeah... I just can't get into these alien ships myself. If they came with an option for Federation/Klingon analogues I'm sure I would.

    Still, if the next step is to suggest those analogues should go on the C-store though, it's time to dig in deep with a raincoat and a year's supply of air fresheners, cause you've just unleashed a twister in a sewage processing plant. The rage would be spectacular. Seeing as most people chasing the JHAS dragon do so for the stats, not cause they thirst for KW. (Not that it isn't possible. Exclusivity is a fleeting thing in STO.)

    Maybe tied into the Fleet starbases, though. If you own promotional ship X you can get a Fed/KDF-ified fleet version. Though then you'd lose two ship slots to it. *lights fuse*

    Or, you know, they can give you an accolade when you claim one of these ships, so you can reclaim it when you dismiss it, deliberately or mistakenly, but then... they would've done that already, if they weren't perfectly fine with making you open another two hundred lockboxes to get your ship back.

    So yeah... still unlikely.
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    To me the game is really affordable. I only get to play a few hours per week. Some weeks about 2 hours tops. Due to what I do in life. So to me its very affordable. Specially being F2P as I don't have to commit to playing to get my $ worth.

    Now for your cap on Dil. All my time playing I hit the cap only a few times. The most was from the Romulan Rep. That got me a ton of Dil. However it didn't bother me that it took me a several days to refine it. I still hadn't spent all that yet. Even when I do my KDF run, I rarely hit the limit. And they are known for the Dil makers. This is my view on it.

    The lock boxes, the game has to make $ so we all can keep enjoying it. You have some pay the Sub. That isn't enough to cover all the others. The C-Store makes some, but after a while that stalls out. As they already have the ships, or the are waiting for a new one to be made. So the lockboxes are there, since its the biggest $ maker for the company.
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  • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Unless you get into PvP, everything in the game is playable and winnable with Mk IX or X white level gear and the free Captain level ship you get at lvl 40.

    Their are higher levels of gear, and higher levels of ships, because people WANT them and are willing to pay for them.

    It takes time and effort to acquire these things. OP wants to have a "win" package. Click a button, "buy" the package and boom all the good stuff, he wins,...

    What I hear when I read some of these responses is some people don't want to put in the time and the effort, they want all the good stuff handed to them, just for showing up,... sorry, life doesn't work that way and neither should the game.

    As for the link to "Free-to-play games are awful, and economics tells us why", as long as the game is playable and "winnable" without paying, as STO is, then there is no "price discrimination" and that article, it's espoused opinions and anyone who would agree with it, are plain and simply, wrong.
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  • keysmachinekeysmachine Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    Cheaper prices more sales.
    Expensive prices less sales.

    this is such a tired argument.

    of course things sell better when their cheaper. and yet there are things out there that are still expensive. WHY..

    oh i know why.. value.

    what you're saying basically amounts to more people would buy a Ferrari if it was cheaper. OF COURSE THEY WOULD. its CHEAP.

    point being.. cheaper isn't always better. if you take a loss per sale then your shooting yourself in the foot making everything cheaper.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    this is such a tired argument.

    of course things sell better when their cheaper. and yet there are things out there that are still expensive. WHY..

    oh i know why.. value.

    what you're saying basically amounts to more people would buy a Ferrari if it was cheaper. OF COURSE THEY WOULD. its CHEAP.

    point being.. cheaper isn't always better. if you take a loss per sale then your shooting yourself in the foot making everything cheaper.
    Yeah, supply and demand. Prices go up to what people are willing to pay.
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  • stuart1965stuart1965 Member Posts: 691 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I have been scratching my head in puzzlement,as to how a player can progress in this game,without him or her pumping in real money.
    Completely free means to me,very slow progress and a total disadvantage to those that put real cash into this game. surely to get anywhere,it would take months and years to do so.Better ships and equipment and so on.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    .

    you already started a thread on this topic:

    what is your motivation here ?

    .
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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    I have been scratching my head in puzzlement,as to how a player can progress in this game,without him or her pumping in real money.
    Completely free means to me,very slow progress and a total disadvantage to those that put real cash into this game. surely to get anywhere,it would take months and years to do so.Better ships and equipment and so on.

    Yes that's kind of the point!!! You really don't need or have to spend any money to play or succeed in beating missions, getting store items, rep gear, fleet stuff or lobi goods, but it does take time to grind enough dilithium to pay for it all. The objective of Cryptic is like any good salesman is to get you to buy with real money the next flashy toy like it's something you simply can't live without, and they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't go with this motto. But in reality none of those toys are really needed or something you can't live without having, it's simply a desire to have or have sooner than later for those to impatient to grind dilithium. Don't get me wrong I support their salesman philosophy and all those including myself who dish out real money to keep this game and company alive, but overall it is a completely f2p game!!!
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  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited September 2013
    You can get everything that requires cash by putting in the time in-game to get dilithium and convert it to zen. The choice is yours: spend money or spend time. I got the Scimitar 3-pack without spending a dime.

    Also it depends on what you mean by "get anywhere"
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It is fully F2P for the small game, and either F2P or P2P for the long game as you choose. One character running the single-player campaign missions does not need to buy anything at all. Much beyond that, and you will need to either grind dilithium in-game (F2P) or dump some r/l cash into it (P2P), as you prefer. Really its up to you, if you have more time than money, or vice-versa
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