I choose "C"...I play, and the bugs are just minor if I encounter them.
doesnt hurt my gameplay sessions at all ...ever.
I have yet to encounter a bug that stopped me dead in my tracks in this game. There is plenty to do, all the time.....sure there's bugs, I'm not saying there isn't, but it doesn't stop me from having fun by doing something else.
if something does bug out...oh well, sheet happens....my computer does it all the time,
Netflix bugs out more than STO (darn that plugin-container.exe !) .
aint ever gonna rage about MMO game bugs to the point I look like a raving lunatic about it...I can do that well enough on my own.
You have it in a nutshell. Bugs are part and parcel of everything in life. If everything was perfect what a boring existence we would all have.
It's filthy stinking greed. And what quarterly's are you examining??
This game costs money to run, there are developers to pay, electric bills, communications services bills, data-warehousing, server-farms, an IT staff that needs paying.... frankly, they have a right to be "greedy".......
It takes a lot more than fairy farts and good intentions to keep an MMO running.
This game costs money to run, there are developers to pay, electric bills, communications services bills, data-warehousing, server-farms, an IT staff that needs paying.... frankly, they have a right to be "greedy".......
It takes a lot more than fairy farts and good intentions to keep an MMO running.
While I don't think the relative lack of attention toward bugs is a result of greed, I do think your statement is naive. Perhaps we're all naive.
"You gotta pay the bills" is not an excuse to be "greedy," nor does it make greed any less morally bankrupt.
It takes a lot more than fairy farts and good intentions to keep an MMO running.
Actually, if you could obtain fairy farts, then you could easily make the best MMO in the world with just fairy farts and good intentions. Unfortunately, obtaining a fairy and feeding them the right type of food to generate a continuous supply of fairy farts is very difficult to do. I would imagine it easier to create a Dyson Sphere with today's technology.
This game costs money to run, there are developers to pay, electric bills, communications services bills, data-warehousing, server-farms, an IT staff that needs paying.... frankly, they have a right to be "greedy".......
It takes a lot more than fairy farts and good intentions to keep an MMO running.
Greed is usually about acquiring an excessive amount of something like money or food so trying to make a normal amount of money as a company is fine.
Conversely, holding onto your money so tightly you make a cheapskate look like a big spender is a symptom of greed which is really where the complaint is regarding most things in this game along with the entitlement issues to boot.
Honestly, I bet if Cryptic would put up a poll, asking peeps what they want most, A) Yet more new stuff, or Fix some old sh*t first, an overwhelming majority would choose .
Of course we would; we're existing customers. That's selection bias. To use a "current issues" analogy, it's similar to asking white people if racism is still an issue (most will say "no"), while not asking black people (most of whom would say "yes"), and then declaring that racism is not an issue.
It all depends on how you define 'benefits.' Do the existing customers benefit from new content? Yes, partly (subtracting the parts where it's broken). But to that you need to place the opportunity cost of not fixing bugs. In other words, you need to also ask the question: would the existing customers be better off if time spent on new stuff had been diverted to fixing the current bugs? And then the answer, IMHO, is 'yes' to the latter.
I'd imagine that the people with access to the company's bank statements have a better idea about who contributes more to the company's financial success than any of us do...
It could even be argued that most established players actually spend less real money on the game, overall, since they very likely have a dilithium grind in place to supplement their C/Z-Store purchases and have already purchased most of what they want.
New players also have many more purchasing options than existing players.
Are 'Fairy Farts' the ones that smell like Roses??
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Of course we would; we're existing customers. That's selection bias. To use a "current issues" analogy, it's similar to asking white people if racism is still an issue (most will say "no"), while not asking black people (most of whom would say "yes"), and then declaring that racism is not an issue.
LOL. Since when has taking care of your existing customers become 'selection bias'?! Seems greed has become so institutionalized, in the minds of people, that it is regarded the most normal thing to treat your existing customers as second-rate beings: stand-in-the-ways to making even moar money, to be gotten from 'new' customers.
And therein, of course, lies the fallacy I mentioned earlier, where the idea allegedly is to attract new players, so you can better cater to the current ones. Except, of course, that the 'new' customer becomes an existing one, as soon as he's reeled in; so that, effectively, with that rationale, a company simply always has an excuse to treat all its existing customers badly, all the time.
I'd imagine that the people with access to the company's bank statements have a better idea about who contributes more to the company's financial success than any of us do...
Yeah. Except I was talking about what benefits the customers more, not what's most beneficial to the company. And don't fall into the trap again of buying into 'new customers are good for the current ones' (see above). New customers are only good for the existing ones, if you use the extra revenue to improve things for the current state of the game: not if you use said extra cash to again start a new round of new content, leaving the old unattended, to attract the next batch of new customers. Ad infinitum.
Still waiting for any of you to point out how thats greed on the part of the OP.
Even taking the OP at his word that he doesn't own a cell ship, he is essentially complaining about Cryptic/PWE fixing this thing that doesn't affect him, while not fixing this other thing that does affect him. To be fair, though, I think "self-centered" would be a more appropriate label than "greedy" in this case.
Still waiting for any of you to point out how thats greed on the part of the OP.
It's very simple, really: if you're so obsessed over making an extra 'buck' (= EC) that you even start complaining about Cryptic fixing the exploit you used to obtain said surplus EC, then terms like 'greed' easily leap to mind (possibly prefixed by an adjective like 'blind').
LOL. Since when has taking care of your existing customers become 'selection bias'?!
*sigh* That's not the part that's a selection bias. Asking only existing customers is the selection bias. Would you expect any answer other than, "We want to be taken care of"?
Besides that, it completely ignores the larger point of whether focusing on "attracting new players" or focusing on "taking care of existing players" gets the company the larger return on investment.
It's a balancing act. The thing about maintaining balance, though, is that some situations require that you lean more in one direction than another.
Seems greed has become so institutionalized, in the minds of people, that it is regarded the most normal thing to treat your existing customers as second-rate beings: stand-in-the-ways to making even moar money, to be gotten from 'new' customers.
We all do it; it's human nature. How often do people pass up a job at Company A for a job at Company B, because Company B is offering better pay? And what's the motivation? All other things being equal, it's "MOAR MONEY", of course. Greed. You're dismissing the needs of Company A for the prospect of more money from Company B. Most people don't even consider this in a moral or ethical context, simply because the "victim" is a business. It doesn't make it any less greedy behavior, however.
Yeah. Except I was talking about what benefits the customers more, not what's most beneficial to the company.
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, Cryptic and PWE aren't charities. They need to be just as concerned with what benefits themselves, as companies, as with what benefits their customers. Refer to my statement above about balancing acts.
And don't fall into the trap again of buying into 'new customers are good for the current ones' (see above). New customers are only good for the existing ones, if you use the extra revenue to improve things for the current state of the game: not if you use said extra cash to again start a new round of new content, leaving the old unattended, to attract the next batch of new customers. Ad infinitum.
Why are you arguing as if it's an all-or-nothing investment? You don't honestly believe that all the money contributed by new customers only goes toward new content meant to attract more new customers, do you? You don't see it as a possibility that some of that money necessarily goes toward fixing existing content, even if it's not to the extent that you desire?
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, Cryptic and PWE aren't charities. They need to be just as concerned with what benefits themselves, as companies, as with what benefits their customers. Refer to my statement above about balancing acts.
When did company interests and customer interests become mutually exclusive? What I think the other poster is trying to argue is that if you take care of the customer's needs, the company will invariably benefit--and it makes sense. If a game is good, the money will follow. It's not always the case, granted, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. It seems these days that some publishers and developers (usually in the F2P market) have constructed for themselves a siege mentality--an "us vs them" scenario that treats gamers as hostile targets that once pacified, can be tapped into like mini wells.
Perhaps that's what this poster is referring to. Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
I like the rest of your post, but this specific statement begged for a response:
When did company interests and customer interests become mutually exclusive? What I think the other poster is trying to argue is that if you take care of the customer's needs, the company will invariably benefit--and it makes sense. If a game is good, the money will follow. It's not always the case, granted, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. It seems these days that some publishers and developers (usually in the F2P market) have constructed for themselves a siege mentality--an "us vs them" scenario that treats gamers as hostile targets that once pacified, can be tapped into like mini wells.
Perhaps that's what this poster is referring to. Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
The problem is that customer interests aren't the same. Some customer wants this while another customer wants that and they could be in direct opposition to each other. So how can the company interests and customer interests align when the customers don't agree? It being Star Trek makes it even more difficult since everyone has their favorite and each series has its own style. Trying to satisfy all of the customer interests will mean nothing gets satisfied. The most a customer can do is hang on for the ride and hope they have a good idea since this is not our version of what a Star Trek MMO is, but what Cryptic's version of what a Star Trek MMO is.
When did company interests and customer interests become mutually exclusive?
I'm not implying that they are. I'd describe it more as a Venn diagram.
What I think the other poster is trying to argue is that if you take care of the customer's needs, the company will invariably benefit--and it makes sense.
That's pretty much a given. It's how business works. Every company is going to fall short of plenty of people's expectations, though. And everyone seems to think they know how to run a business.
When did company interests and customer interests become mutually exclusive? What I think the other poster is trying to argue is that if you take care of the customer's needs, the company will invariably benefit--and it makes sense. If a game is good, the money will follow. It's not always the case, granted, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. It seems these days that some publishers and developers (usually in the F2P market) have constructed for themselves a siege mentality--an "us vs them" scenario that treats gamers as hostile targets that once pacified, can be tapped into like mini wells.
Perhaps that's what this poster is referring to. Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
If 'this poster' referred to me, LOL, then yes, that's what I was trying to say. If you make a good product, and treat your existing customers well, growth will follow naturally, as the result of positive experiences, word of mouth, etc.
Also, to a degree, I can understand the 'battle for the customer' between MMO companies. What I can understand, or swallow, far less, is a situation where the needs of the existing customers are considered subservient to the company's need of reeling in new customers. In my book, the customers you have always take precedence over the ones you may have in the future.
Someone also mentioned balance. Great! Except balance is gone when the state of the current game starts to suffer because they're focussing too much on making flashy new stuff for the 'next' customer.
Also, where is this persistent notion coming from -- that so many ppl seem to repeat -- that it is an absolute must to make new content for new customers? Way I figure this, to a new customer *everything* in-game is new to begin with. From my perspective, save that you can advertise with 'New & Shiny content in Season X!', the new customer is the very last person in need of new stuff. :P
What people seem to overlook either by accident or on purpose is that most of the items sold in this game are account unlocks, meaning one time purchases.
If Cryptic is going to stay profitable they MUST keep adding new items to keep customers spending money on the game.
Lockboxes/Master Keys are one of the few items that people are willing to keep buying on a regular basis, if there are new items constantly released in them.
I think this is why Fleet Ships moved toward the whole single purchase unlock motif. With some limited discounts. People still buy modules in droves.
What people seem to overlook either by accident or on purpose is that most of the items sold in this game are account unlocks, meaning one time purchases.
If Cryptic is going to stay profitable they MUST keep adding new items to keep customers spending money on the game.
Yeah. Lockbox and C-store items were not exactly what I had in mind, though, when talking about new stuff. More like on the scale of entire new expansions, summer events, etc.
Comments
I've personally come to the conclusion that the boff tray reset bug is due to LAG and not an actual glitch.
My character Tsin'xing
So you have something in common then!!!
You have it in a nutshell. Bugs are part and parcel of everything in life. If everything was perfect what a boring existence we would all have.
This game costs money to run, there are developers to pay, electric bills, communications services bills, data-warehousing, server-farms, an IT staff that needs paying.... frankly, they have a right to be "greedy".......
It takes a lot more than fairy farts and good intentions to keep an MMO running.
While I don't think the relative lack of attention toward bugs is a result of greed, I do think your statement is naive. Perhaps we're all naive.
"You gotta pay the bills" is not an excuse to be "greedy," nor does it make greed any less morally bankrupt.
Actually, if you could obtain fairy farts, then you could easily make the best MMO in the world with just fairy farts and good intentions. Unfortunately, obtaining a fairy and feeding them the right type of food to generate a continuous supply of fairy farts is very difficult to do. I would imagine it easier to create a Dyson Sphere with today's technology.
It's "Greed" in the sense of what that player calls greed..... though likely you or I would not class it as greed.
Greed is usually about acquiring an excessive amount of something like money or food so trying to make a normal amount of money as a company is fine.
Conversely, holding onto your money so tightly you make a cheapskate look like a big spender is a symptom of greed which is really where the complaint is regarding most things in this game along with the entitlement issues to boot.
Of course we would; we're existing customers. That's selection bias. To use a "current issues" analogy, it's similar to asking white people if racism is still an issue (most will say "no"), while not asking black people (most of whom would say "yes"), and then declaring that racism is not an issue.
I'd imagine that the people with access to the company's bank statements have a better idea about who contributes more to the company's financial success than any of us do...
It could even be argued that most established players actually spend less real money on the game, overall, since they very likely have a dilithium grind in place to supplement their C/Z-Store purchases and have already purchased most of what they want.
New players also have many more purchasing options than existing players.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
LOL. Since when has taking care of your existing customers become 'selection bias'?! Seems greed has become so institutionalized, in the minds of people, that it is regarded the most normal thing to treat your existing customers as second-rate beings: stand-in-the-ways to making even moar money, to be gotten from 'new' customers.
And therein, of course, lies the fallacy I mentioned earlier, where the idea allegedly is to attract new players, so you can better cater to the current ones. Except, of course, that the 'new' customer becomes an existing one, as soon as he's reeled in; so that, effectively, with that rationale, a company simply always has an excuse to treat all its existing customers badly, all the time.
Yeah. Except I was talking about what benefits the customers more, not what's most beneficial to the company. And don't fall into the trap again of buying into 'new customers are good for the current ones' (see above). New customers are only good for the existing ones, if you use the extra revenue to improve things for the current state of the game: not if you use said extra cash to again start a new round of new content, leaving the old unattended, to attract the next batch of new customers. Ad infinitum.
Even taking the OP at his word that he doesn't own a cell ship, he is essentially complaining about Cryptic/PWE fixing this thing that doesn't affect him, while not fixing this other thing that does affect him. To be fair, though, I think "self-centered" would be a more appropriate label than "greedy" in this case.
It's very simple, really: if you're so obsessed over making an extra 'buck' (= EC) that you even start complaining about Cryptic fixing the exploit you used to obtain said surplus EC, then terms like 'greed' easily leap to mind (possibly prefixed by an adjective like 'blind').
*sigh* That's not the part that's a selection bias. Asking only existing customers is the selection bias. Would you expect any answer other than, "We want to be taken care of"?
Besides that, it completely ignores the larger point of whether focusing on "attracting new players" or focusing on "taking care of existing players" gets the company the larger return on investment.
It's a balancing act. The thing about maintaining balance, though, is that some situations require that you lean more in one direction than another.
We all do it; it's human nature. How often do people pass up a job at Company A for a job at Company B, because Company B is offering better pay? And what's the motivation? All other things being equal, it's "MOAR MONEY", of course. Greed. You're dismissing the needs of Company A for the prospect of more money from Company B. Most people don't even consider this in a moral or ethical context, simply because the "victim" is a business. It doesn't make it any less greedy behavior, however.
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, Cryptic and PWE aren't charities. They need to be just as concerned with what benefits themselves, as companies, as with what benefits their customers. Refer to my statement above about balancing acts.
Why are you arguing as if it's an all-or-nothing investment? You don't honestly believe that all the money contributed by new customers only goes toward new content meant to attract more new customers, do you? You don't see it as a possibility that some of that money necessarily goes toward fixing existing content, even if it's not to the extent that you desire?
my advice is to just stop now...anything and everything you say will be argued by him no matter how much it makes sense, believe me.
just walk away slowly and smile...I did.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
When did company interests and customer interests become mutually exclusive? What I think the other poster is trying to argue is that if you take care of the customer's needs, the company will invariably benefit--and it makes sense. If a game is good, the money will follow. It's not always the case, granted, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. It seems these days that some publishers and developers (usually in the F2P market) have constructed for themselves a siege mentality--an "us vs them" scenario that treats gamers as hostile targets that once pacified, can be tapped into like mini wells.
Perhaps that's what this poster is referring to. Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
One persons Bug is another persons working as intended.
The problem is that customer interests aren't the same. Some customer wants this while another customer wants that and they could be in direct opposition to each other. So how can the company interests and customer interests align when the customers don't agree? It being Star Trek makes it even more difficult since everyone has their favorite and each series has its own style. Trying to satisfy all of the customer interests will mean nothing gets satisfied. The most a customer can do is hang on for the ride and hope they have a good idea since this is not our version of what a Star Trek MMO is, but what Cryptic's version of what a Star Trek MMO is.
I'm not implying that they are. I'd describe it more as a Venn diagram.
That's pretty much a given. It's how business works. Every company is going to fall short of plenty of people's expectations, though. And everyone seems to think they know how to run a business.
If 'this poster' referred to me, LOL, then yes, that's what I was trying to say.
Also, to a degree, I can understand the 'battle for the customer' between MMO companies. What I can understand, or swallow, far less, is a situation where the needs of the existing customers are considered subservient to the company's need of reeling in new customers. In my book, the customers you have always take precedence over the ones you may have in the future.
Someone also mentioned balance. Great! Except balance is gone when the state of the current game starts to suffer because they're focussing too much on making flashy new stuff for the 'next' customer.
Also, where is this persistent notion coming from -- that so many ppl seem to repeat -- that it is an absolute must to make new content for new customers? Way I figure this, to a new customer *everything* in-game is new to begin with. From my perspective, save that you can advertise with 'New & Shiny content in Season X!', the new customer is the very last person in need of new stuff. :P
I think this is why Fleet Ships moved toward the whole single purchase unlock motif. With some limited discounts. People still buy modules in droves.
Yeah. Lockbox and C-store items were not exactly what I had in mind, though, when talking about new stuff. More like on the scale of entire new expansions, summer events, etc.