I doubt he would do less than half of the lowest player. would be mighty hard for that to happen .
I think it's quite possible. 3-4k DPS is (imo) not unreasonable for a player in an ESTF, but there are many top players who are well beyond 10k DPS.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I think it's quite possible. 3-4k DPS is (imo) not unreasonable for a player in an ESTF, but there are many top players who are well beyond 10k DPS.
that's insanely low 4 dual heavy cannons with 4 turrets can do more than that with no tact consoles buffing them. also understand I ONLY play KDF most all of our ships use real weapons, so sometimes I forget about beams and rainbows being considered a decent loadout.
I don't want to argue builds or debate power issues or any of that stuff. in this thread but even at those lvls I think you would still be hard pressed to do less than 50% of the damage of the next lowest players. because if all 4 others were pumping out in excess of 10k 3 of them could end up with all the kills. leaving their 4th buddy with low numbers as well .
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
that's insanely low 4 dual heavy cannons with 4 turrets can do more than that with no tact consoles buffing them. also understand I ONLY play KDF most all of our ships use real weapons, so sometimes I forget about beams and rainbows being considered a decent loadout.
I don't want to argue builds or debate power issues or any of that stuff. in this thread but even at those lvls I think you would still be hard pressed to do less than 50% of the damage of the next lowest players. because if all 4 others were pumping out in excess of 10k 3 of them could end up with all the kills. leaving their 4th buddy with low numbers as well .
In that case you bring up a different problem.
2 leechers.
Oops.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
so dahminus and valoreah kick somone for being in a level you don't like is ok
so tool that people want to kick afk and leeches is ok to use to kick somone you don't like hmm
isn't that abuse of the system
Is this an example? Or are you using us based on something we said? I can't recall saying anything along these lines. But if a troll that I know pops into an estfs that is known to blow generators on the wring side and then warps out....ya I would try to kick hin instantly. Who wouldn't?
Why are certain persons so afraid they're going to be kicked?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Is this an example? Or are you using us based on something we said? I can't recall saying anything along these lines. But if a troll that I know pops into an estfs that is known to blow generators on the wring side and then warps out....ya I would try to kick hin instantly. Who wouldn't?
In order for vote kick to be abused, three or four players on the team need to be out to grief people. I'd say if you end up with three or four griefers on team, that mission is already beyond salvaging in most cases.
Refusing to PUG, ever, creates cliques and makes the game worse overall for the casual (and new) players. That's an answer only for those who can't stand the smell of the unwashed masses. Sure, CSE with 10+ min left on optional is nice, but it would get dreadfully boring if nothing ever went wrong, or even had the potential of going wrong.
I would like a vote kick option, because AFK leeching seems to be becoming increasingly common. I don't care whether or not it's against TOS, illegal, immoral or otherwise objectionable, but it's the kind of scumbaggery I will not tolerate. Anyone who expects to get free rewards out of other people's toil without contributing (no, sitting there clicking Need does not count) is someone I don't want on my team.
Another viable option would be not being teamed with anyone on your ignore list. Either would work.
PS. I saw vote kick used once in City of Heroes. This was during the Underground Incarnate Trial where one player had parked in a safe spot, just hanging around leeching experience and influence without doing anything. I voted yes.
Ideas are always good - and I think it's clear there is at least some problem here that could be either relieved or solved systematically. With any system like this, there are conflicting goals to consider: We want to improve the play experience of people who unfortunately get saddled with an AFK player, but we don't want to enable cliques of partly-premade players to bully another player for creating their own playstyle. We want to reward players for being good group participants and for helping other players, but we want to avoid any positive reinforcement tool we hypothetically create being exploited by friends or premade groups. We want to foster social interaction between players - that's kind of the purpose of a queue system, after all! - but we don't want to force it on people who really just want to play by themselves. So, there are a lot of variables to consider, and we'd have to be careful to make sure that we didn't just create more problems than we solved with any given implementation.
Pardon my rambling, but those are my thoughts on the matter. They're still pretty abstract at the moment, but I do agree there is both a collective action problem and an optimal rewards per minute problem here, where optimizing one's actions for personal gain per effort doesn't create a good collective experience, and society's normal controls for that sort of thing (reputation, word of mouth) are very much weakened by a random matchmaking system (our queue system).
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
I'd add that an anti-AFK system isn't necessarily about who does the most of something (DPS, healing etc.). It's making sure each person participates and contributes to the overall effort.
Except, of course, what exactly constitutes 'participation'? Is it DPS? Is it movements? Healing? Tractoring? Key clicks?
That's the problem with this, and all similar threads like it: everyone wants to make sure all team mates participate; but actually, solidly defining 'participation' is a lot harder (in terms of coming up with a set of workable rules for the game A.I.) than just understanding it, as a human does.
Riiiiiight....you wouldn't want to get someone out of your group when they show up in the tier 0 ship or a shuttle....
Bs....lol
Actually, I know some (very experienced) fleet member who go out and eSTF (yes, you can use that as verb) in Mirandas on a fairly regular basis; and quite successfully too, mind you. Showing once more it's not the ship, but the pilot.
So, kicking Mirandas... actually a good reason *against* vote kicks.
Except, of course, what exactly constitutes 'participation'? Is it DPS? Is it movements? Healing? Tractoring? Key clicks?
That's the problem with this, and all similar threads like it: everyone wants to make sure all team mates participate; but actually, solidly defining 'participation' is a lot harder (in terms of coming up with a set of workable rules for the game A.I.) than just understanding it, as a human does.
Damage, healing others and being damaged...should work no? I don't think kiting is a part of the game anymore so movement should be excluded
Actually, I know some (very experienced) fleet member who go out and eSTF (yes, you can use that as verb) in Mirandas on a fairly regular basis; and quite successfully too, mind you. Showing once more it's not the ship, but the pilot.
So, kicking Mirandas... actually a good reason *against* vote kicks.
When TRIBBLE a TRIBBLE...heh heh...would you rather get it done quick with a drill or the head of a detachable screwdriver?
And I'm all for a fleet Miranda bash, I have no issues with that, but to go into a pug...that's just bad juju
Damage, healing others and being damaged...should work no? I don't think kiting is a part of the game anymore so movement should be excluded
And the greatest of these is 'being damaged.' As there's no way you can take damage from, say, a Borg cube, and continue to AFK (except by dying; which is also somethng which needs to be addressed: you don't respawn in time? Kicked! You come into an eSTF in a damaged ship? Kicked!).
I disagree. While he didn't have to put it so abrasively his advice is sound. Just because you don't like the solution or the posters attitude doesn't invalidate it's effectiveness.
Until Cryptic implements some sort of solution players hands are tied. We can only use the tools we have available to minimize our exposure to playstyles we don't like.
I'll admit that avoiding this particular problem is a solution. I just don't agree it's a good, let alone a practical one
Until Cryptic implements some sort of solution players hands are tied. We can only use the tools we have available to minimize our exposure to playstyles we don't like.
Well, there's one thing you can do already: see an AFK-er? Put him/her on your Ignore list! I'm given to understand that, next time, the queue scheduler won't team you up with that person (or anyone else on your Ignore list, for that matter). Not an ideal solution; but it does help you make sure the leecher will at least *never* unduly benefit from you any more!
Well, there's one thing you can do already: see an AFK-er? Put him/her on your Ignore list! I'm given to understand that, next time, the queue scheduler won't team you up with that person (or anyone else on your Ignore list, for that matter). Not an ideal solution; but it does help you make sure the leecher will at least *never* unduly benefit from you any more!
I'm afraid you've been misinformed. That has been *proposed* as a solution, but it doesn't exist today.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
As I've stated in other threads, I DON'T support a vote kick.
. Why? Look at all the fleet problems we've had with players taking control of a fleet and kicking all the contributing fleet members for no reason, just to take control of a fleet and it's resources.
. Look at the players who willingly used broken game mechanics to hax a double shield in PVP.
. Or groups of people who go out of their way to annoy other players or harass them.
If something can be abused, IT USUALLY IS.
No damned way, will I support any measure that would give these kinds of players power over me or my game play. They would ABSOLUTELY abuse it.
What I WOULD support is: Some mechanic that if you put someone on ignore, you won't ever be teamed with them.
Then I would just ignore the AFKers.
I would support some sort of participation meter too.
I still say, report the sons of a guns. Cryptic should police their own damned game.
Hey, they will investigate and take action against foundry exploits to no end, how is this any different?
I don't want to have MY game play interrupted, to police other players, that's NOT MY JOB. I'd rather just play, and if it really gets me really angry, report the TRIBBLE and let Cryptic deal with em.
If you don't have faith in Cryptic handling this situation effectively once it's been reported, you CERTAINLY shouldn't have faith in them introducing something that COULD be abused either. CAUSE IF SOMETHING CAN BE ABUSED IT WILL BE.
If you think that a vote kick wouldn't be abused, after all the things I've outlined earlier have already gone on, and continue to do so, I'd say you were naive.
You know, I play SEVERAL fleet actions and STFs EVERYDAY and I can tell you that yes, I come across an AFKer now and again, BUT it's no were near the frequency some say it is.
Maybe I've just been lucky. But then again, I play a lot with people I KNOW, sure sometimes we're a guy short and we get a pug who every now and again who screws the mission up.
But it's USUALLY because this person doesn't know how to play STFs, the right way, NOT for AFKing.
Should we be able to vote kick those people too? How about people who use rainbow builds ? How about people who don't fly the "right" ships ? How about vote kicking science players, cause a group of all tactical players gives a better shot at getting the optional.
Why do we need those low DPS useless career noobs anyway.....
There is a LOOOOOOOOOONG running thread about people's "worst STF experiences". The majority of those posts outline situations in which one player or another is clueless, or has really bad builds with low DPS "skittle boats" ect.
I guarantee, someone would try to vote kick for these reasons too.
What about if a player is abusive and yells at another player for blowing a cube too early, or not guarding the Kang well enough ? Should we kick them too ? Because my friends, people WILL try to kick for ALL SORTS of reasons, OTHER than AFKers.
On this you can be sure of.
As I've stated in other threads, I DON'T support a vote kick.
. Why? Look at all the fleet problems we've had with players taking control of a fleet and kicking all the contributing fleet members for no reason, just to take control of a fleet and it's resources.
. Look at the players who willingly used broken game mechanics to hax a double shield in PVP.
. Or groups of people who go out of their way to annoy other players or harass them.
If something can be abused, IT USUALLY IS.
There's no argument that a vote-kick would be abused. However, you make it sound like everyone is going to abuse it, which isn't the case.
Most players aren't griefers, that's the simple truth. If they were, then every STF would be full of AFKers, which isn't the case - it's a problem, not an epidemic.
Under the current system, one player can ruin an STF for four others.
Under a vote-kick, three players would have to cooperate to ruin an STF for two others.
Given that griefers are a small minority, it ought to be pretty obvious which system is preferable.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Ideas are always good - and I think it's clear there is at least some problem here that could be either relieved or solved systematically. With any system like this, there are conflicting goals to consider: We want to improve the play experience of people who unfortunately get saddled with an AFK player, but we don't want to enable cliques of partly-premade players to bully another player for creating their own playstyle. We want to reward players for being good group participants and for helping other players, but we want to avoid any positive reinforcement tool we hypothetically create being exploited by friends or premade groups. We want to foster social interaction between players - that's kind of the purpose of a queue system, after all! - but we don't want to force it on people who really just want to play by themselves. So, there are a lot of variables to consider, and we'd have to be careful to make sure that we didn't just create more problems than we solved with any given implementation.
Pardon my rambling, but those are my thoughts on the matter. They're still pretty abstract at the moment, but I do agree there is both a collective action problem and an optimal rewards per minute problem here, where optimizing one's actions for personal gain per effort doesn't create a good collective experience, and society's normal controls for that sort of thing (reputation, word of mouth) are very much weakened by a random matchmaking system (our queue system).
Take your time on this one. The single leecher can sometimes be better than an incompetent team member or one who wont listen. They are more of a hindrance than a help sometimes but it needs to be fixed.
The "don't pug" solution have no validity in this subject. Puggers want to pug/use the queue system not "not pug."
Most players aren't griefers, that's the simple truth. If they were, then every STF would be full of AFKers, which isn't the case - it's a problem, not an epidemic.
Most players don't steal from fleets, or seize control of fleets and kick other players from the fleet for no good reason. But it happens all the time. It's not an epidemic, but it's a problem.
Most people don't use exploits.
Most players don't join griefing fleets.
BUT SOME DO.
Just because they're in a minority, doesn't mean it's inconceivable they wouldn't get a few like minded buddies together and kick someone for some absurd reason that the kick was NEVER intended for.
Not everyone robs houses either, but I don't leave mine unlocked. I guess I just don't have the same faith you do.
Under the current system, one player can ruin an STF for four others.
Define "ruin", what offences would justify a vote kick? Simply AFKers? Because I thought the issue at hand was AFKers and this comment seems a tad vague.
There are other ways one can "ruin" an STF you know, being inexperienced, not being as skilled, making mistakes, having the wrong build, flying the wrong ship, (like a galaxy class (I kid) ....
Should we exclude the inexperienced or players of a lesser skill from ever playing any teamed game play so they don't ruin it for others ? I ask this because some might think this is a perfectly reasonable reason to kick someone.
Under a vote-kick, three players would have to cooperate to ruin an STF for two others.
Or three others might not like how one player is performing, maybe he's a noob. Again, is this a vote kick for AFKers ? Or for what other offences ? You gotta be clear on this, because some might start trying to kick for all sorts of reasons, some more justified than others I can assure you.
Given that griefers are a small minority, it ought to be pretty obvious which system is preferable.
Yes, it is. I prefer to let Cryptic deal with players trying to exploit the game by going AFK, just like they deal with other exploits. REPORT THEM.
Cryptic claims that they can go back and see EVERYTHING we do in the game.
I don't feel comfortable with a one stop player initiated "solution" that can be utilized instantly, not just to deal with AFKers, but maybe a whole bunch of undesirable situations. Again, some more justified than others.
Infact, I dare say that "some" of the people who support the vote kick for "AFKers" might have another agenda. Maybe some have thought of other situations in which a vote kick might come in handy too.
And I won't support any one action that can be applied to a variety of perceived offences it was never intended for.
You seem like a very thoughtful and reasonable person. I have no quarrel with you personally, I just don't agree with you on this matter.
but you have the unmitigated gall to justify that point of view by stating you deny people access to your house because you fear what some undesirables might do.
No, I have the unmitigated gall to not support this because I feel it would be used for reasons other than AFKers, which is the stated reason in this thread for asking for the kick.
Look, Are we asking for this kick because we can all rally behind getting back at AFKers, (SOMEONE EVERYONE HATES), or are we opening a can of worms that can be used for all sorts of inappropriate reasons that it was never intended for.
AFKers, griefers, racists, bigots, d-bags, build TRIBBLE's, loot ninja's. Disruptive players come in many forms, and people shouldn't be forced to put up with them if their behavior is negatively impacting their enjoyment of the game.
I thought this thread is about vote kicking people who go AFK in STFs. This is a hot button topic, we can all agree to rally against. But you're suggesting a bigger agenda here. And I'm not too comfortable with that at all. And that is why I will NEVER support a vote kick.
Elitist players can negatively impact one's enjoyment of a game too, especially if given the power of a kick.
Build TRIBBLE's to you, inexperienced player to me. I don't think kicking someone from a mission for having a build that needs work is a justifiable reason to kick someone by the way. This is not Elitists Online. The game will become real unfriendly like to new players fast if we start kicking people from missions for having builds that need work. Just ask any PVPer about the average PVEer's build.
What happens if we end up with elitist kick TRIBBLE's ruining STFs for everyone who doesn't measure up to their standards?
And vote kicking Loot Ninja's ? Are you freakin kidding me? There'd be no one left ! Everyone hits need now a days on any drops of value in a pug group ! This would be just a lame excuse to kick someone.
But for the sake of argument, let's expand upon you're idea of "d-bags" negatively impacting people's enjoyment of the game: please tell me, Who's to stop the "undesirables" from vote kicking YOU from STFs for the yucks ?
Giving a vote kick to players for AFKers is a slippery slope, 1 day its for AFKers, the next its rainbow builds, the next its science, the next its speaking the wrong language, and then the next having the wrong name. There is no way a vote kick will remain civil and used only for an AFK player or someone who intentionaly tries to grief.
What will happen is it will be used to ruin someones game time because someone didnt like how they were doing and initiated a vote which almost always ends with a kick because humans are sadistic and plenty of them will just click YES.
What about the gear/dilithium events where you get the best reward for being the one to do the most DPS? How fast do you think vote kicking will start punishing people for being the best player? Day effing 1 of when vote kick would be released and This I have seen in FPS games. Top players get vote kicked to improve everyone elses standing in the match and is the reason we shut that option off on our server. It was abused nearly every single match an admin wasnt on. So no vote kicking will not remain used just on the worst of the worst. (Funny story about running that game server, some unknown player initiated a vote kick on me the server admin because he was told no spawn camping. I permanently banned him from the server.)
Ive seen people come into a match and just pick someone at random and initiate a vote, being a server admin i got to see how many votes were yes and there was always more than 3 in an 8 player server. Allot of people will just click YES to get the window off the screen without even reading it and there will always be some smacktard that initiates it every single match they join.
Just 1 kick for any other reason than afk or griefing is enough to justify not having a vote kick option. It is that simple and I think some of those that want the option want it for reasons above and beyond AFK/griefers, others have never got to withess the abuse from an administartion point of view that comes with the option.
Best option is Ignore = no queue together. This stops griefers from ever joining a match with you, stops people who are on the ignore list for other reasons, this stops AFKers, this cannot be abused to ruin someone elses gameplay by having them kicked for any reason.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Comments
I think it's quite possible. 3-4k DPS is (imo) not unreasonable for a player in an ESTF, but there are many top players who are well beyond 10k DPS.
so tool that people want to kick afk and leeches is ok to use to kick somone you don't like hmm
isn't that abuse of the system
that's insanely low 4 dual heavy cannons with 4 turrets can do more than that with no tact consoles buffing them. also understand I ONLY play KDF most all of our ships use real weapons, so sometimes I forget about beams and rainbows being considered a decent loadout.
I don't want to argue builds or debate power issues or any of that stuff. in this thread but even at those lvls I think you would still be hard pressed to do less than 50% of the damage of the next lowest players. because if all 4 others were pumping out in excess of 10k 3 of them could end up with all the kills. leaving their 4th buddy with low numbers as well .
In that case you bring up a different problem.
2 leechers.
Oops.
Is this an example? Or are you using us based on something we said? I can't recall saying anything along these lines. But if a troll that I know pops into an estfs that is known to blow generators on the wring side and then warps out....ya I would try to kick hin instantly. Who wouldn't?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Why are certain persons so afraid they're going to be kicked?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
your words.
Refusing to PUG, ever, creates cliques and makes the game worse overall for the casual (and new) players. That's an answer only for those who can't stand the smell of the unwashed masses. Sure, CSE with 10+ min left on optional is nice, but it would get dreadfully boring if nothing ever went wrong, or even had the potential of going wrong.
I would like a vote kick option, because AFK leeching seems to be becoming increasingly common. I don't care whether or not it's against TOS, illegal, immoral or otherwise objectionable, but it's the kind of scumbaggery I will not tolerate. Anyone who expects to get free rewards out of other people's toil without contributing (no, sitting there clicking Need does not count) is someone I don't want on my team.
Another viable option would be not being teamed with anyone on your ignore list. Either would work.
PS. I saw vote kick used once in City of Heroes. This was during the Underground Incarnate Trial where one player had parked in a safe spot, just hanging around leeching experience and influence without doing anything. I voted yes.
Pardon my rambling, but those are my thoughts on the matter. They're still pretty abstract at the moment, but I do agree there is both a collective action problem and an optimal rewards per minute problem here, where optimizing one's actions for personal gain per effort doesn't create a good collective experience, and society's normal controls for that sort of thing (reputation, word of mouth) are very much weakened by a random matchmaking system (our queue system).
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
No whining here, just trying to fix a problem. Leechers are slackers, not a big fan of doing the work of others.
BTW you don't deal with this problem, why are you even posting? ...move along you have nothing to add
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
even if it gets abused or not.
Except, of course, what exactly constitutes 'participation'? Is it DPS? Is it movements? Healing? Tractoring? Key clicks?
That's the problem with this, and all similar threads like it: everyone wants to make sure all team mates participate; but actually, solidly defining 'participation' is a lot harder (in terms of coming up with a set of workable rules for the game A.I.) than just understanding it, as a human does.
Riiiiiight....you wouldn't want to get someone out of your group when they show up in the tier 0 ship or a shuttle....
Bs....lol
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Actually, I know some (very experienced) fleet member who go out and eSTF (yes, you can use that as verb) in Mirandas on a fairly regular basis; and quite successfully too, mind you. Showing once more it's not the ship, but the pilot.
So, kicking Mirandas... actually a good reason *against* vote kicks.
Damage, healing others and being damaged...should work no? I don't think kiting is a part of the game anymore so movement should be excluded
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
When TRIBBLE a TRIBBLE...heh heh...would you rather get it done quick with a drill or the head of a detachable screwdriver?
And I'm all for a fleet Miranda bash, I have no issues with that, but to go into a pug...that's just bad juju
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
And the greatest of these is 'being damaged.' As there's no way you can take damage from, say, a Borg cube, and continue to AFK (except by dying; which is also somethng which needs to be addressed: you don't respawn in time? Kicked! You come into an eSTF in a damaged ship? Kicked!).
I'll admit that avoiding this particular problem is a solution. I just don't agree it's a good, let alone a practical one
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Well, there's one thing you can do already: see an AFK-er? Put him/her on your Ignore list! I'm given to understand that, next time, the queue scheduler won't team you up with that person (or anyone else on your Ignore list, for that matter). Not an ideal solution; but it does help you make sure the leecher will at least *never* unduly benefit from you any more!
I'm afraid you've been misinformed. That has been *proposed* as a solution, but it doesn't exist today.
. Why? Look at all the fleet problems we've had with players taking control of a fleet and kicking all the contributing fleet members for no reason, just to take control of a fleet and it's resources.
. Look at the players who willingly used broken game mechanics to hax a double shield in PVP.
. Or groups of people who go out of their way to annoy other players or harass them.
If something can be abused, IT USUALLY IS.
No damned way, will I support any measure that would give these kinds of players power over me or my game play. They would ABSOLUTELY abuse it.
What I WOULD support is: Some mechanic that if you put someone on ignore, you won't ever be teamed with them.
Then I would just ignore the AFKers.
I would support some sort of participation meter too.
I still say, report the sons of a guns. Cryptic should police their own damned game.
Hey, they will investigate and take action against foundry exploits to no end, how is this any different?
I don't want to have MY game play interrupted, to police other players, that's NOT MY JOB. I'd rather just play, and if it really gets me really angry, report the TRIBBLE and let Cryptic deal with em.
If you don't have faith in Cryptic handling this situation effectively once it's been reported, you CERTAINLY shouldn't have faith in them introducing something that COULD be abused either. CAUSE IF SOMETHING CAN BE ABUSED IT WILL BE.
If you think that a vote kick wouldn't be abused, after all the things I've outlined earlier have already gone on, and continue to do so, I'd say you were naive.
You know, I play SEVERAL fleet actions and STFs EVERYDAY and I can tell you that yes, I come across an AFKer now and again, BUT it's no were near the frequency some say it is.
Maybe I've just been lucky. But then again, I play a lot with people I KNOW, sure sometimes we're a guy short and we get a pug who every now and again who screws the mission up.
But it's USUALLY because this person doesn't know how to play STFs, the right way, NOT for AFKing.
Should we be able to vote kick those people too? How about people who use rainbow builds ? How about people who don't fly the "right" ships ? How about vote kicking science players, cause a group of all tactical players gives a better shot at getting the optional.
Why do we need those low DPS useless career noobs anyway.....
There is a LOOOOOOOOOONG running thread about people's "worst STF experiences". The majority of those posts outline situations in which one player or another is clueless, or has really bad builds with low DPS "skittle boats" ect.
I guarantee, someone would try to vote kick for these reasons too.
What about if a player is abusive and yells at another player for blowing a cube too early, or not guarding the Kang well enough ? Should we kick them too ? Because my friends, people WILL try to kick for ALL SORTS of reasons, OTHER than AFKers.
On this you can be sure of.
There's no argument that a vote-kick would be abused. However, you make it sound like everyone is going to abuse it, which isn't the case.
Most players aren't griefers, that's the simple truth. If they were, then every STF would be full of AFKers, which isn't the case - it's a problem, not an epidemic.
Under the current system, one player can ruin an STF for four others.
Under a vote-kick, three players would have to cooperate to ruin an STF for two others.
Given that griefers are a small minority, it ought to be pretty obvious which system is preferable.
The "don't pug" solution have no validity in this subject. Puggers want to pug/use the queue system not "not pug."
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
I really don't see the point in this comment, if ANYONE abused it against another player/s than that would be the problem.
Most players don't steal from fleets, or seize control of fleets and kick other players from the fleet for no good reason. But it happens all the time. It's not an epidemic, but it's a problem.
Most people don't use exploits.
Most players don't join griefing fleets.
BUT SOME DO.
Just because they're in a minority, doesn't mean it's inconceivable they wouldn't get a few like minded buddies together and kick someone for some absurd reason that the kick was NEVER intended for.
Not everyone robs houses either, but I don't leave mine unlocked. I guess I just don't have the same faith you do.
Define "ruin", what offences would justify a vote kick? Simply AFKers? Because I thought the issue at hand was AFKers and this comment seems a tad vague.
There are other ways one can "ruin" an STF you know, being inexperienced, not being as skilled, making mistakes, having the wrong build, flying the wrong ship, (like a galaxy class (I kid) ....
Should we exclude the inexperienced or players of a lesser skill from ever playing any teamed game play so they don't ruin it for others ? I ask this because some might think this is a perfectly reasonable reason to kick someone.
Or three others might not like how one player is performing, maybe he's a noob. Again, is this a vote kick for AFKers ? Or for what other offences ? You gotta be clear on this, because some might start trying to kick for all sorts of reasons, some more justified than others I can assure you.
Yes, it is. I prefer to let Cryptic deal with players trying to exploit the game by going AFK, just like they deal with other exploits. REPORT THEM.
Cryptic claims that they can go back and see EVERYTHING we do in the game.
I don't feel comfortable with a one stop player initiated "solution" that can be utilized instantly, not just to deal with AFKers, but maybe a whole bunch of undesirable situations. Again, some more justified than others.
Infact, I dare say that "some" of the people who support the vote kick for "AFKers" might have another agenda. Maybe some have thought of other situations in which a vote kick might come in handy too.
And I won't support any one action that can be applied to a variety of perceived offences it was never intended for.
You seem like a very thoughtful and reasonable person. I have no quarrel with you personally, I just don't agree with you on this matter.
Undesirables? I though we were calling them Afkers ? Elitist much?
No, I have the unmitigated gall to not support this because I feel it would be used for reasons other than AFKers, which is the stated reason in this thread for asking for the kick.
Look, Are we asking for this kick because we can all rally behind getting back at AFKers, (SOMEONE EVERYONE HATES), or are we opening a can of worms that can be used for all sorts of inappropriate reasons that it was never intended for.
That's all I'm asking people to consider.
I thought this thread is about vote kicking people who go AFK in STFs. This is a hot button topic, we can all agree to rally against. But you're suggesting a bigger agenda here. And I'm not too comfortable with that at all. And that is why I will NEVER support a vote kick.
Elitist players can negatively impact one's enjoyment of a game too, especially if given the power of a kick.
Build TRIBBLE's to you, inexperienced player to me. I don't think kicking someone from a mission for having a build that needs work is a justifiable reason to kick someone by the way. This is not Elitists Online. The game will become real unfriendly like to new players fast if we start kicking people from missions for having builds that need work. Just ask any PVPer about the average PVEer's build.
What happens if we end up with elitist kick TRIBBLE's ruining STFs for everyone who doesn't measure up to their standards?
And vote kicking Loot Ninja's ? Are you freakin kidding me? There'd be no one left ! Everyone hits need now a days on any drops of value in a pug group ! This would be just a lame excuse to kick someone.
But for the sake of argument, let's expand upon you're idea of "d-bags" negatively impacting people's enjoyment of the game: please tell me, Who's to stop the "undesirables" from vote kicking YOU from STFs for the yucks ?
Thank you for helping me make my point.
What will happen is it will be used to ruin someones game time because someone didnt like how they were doing and initiated a vote which almost always ends with a kick because humans are sadistic and plenty of them will just click YES.
What about the gear/dilithium events where you get the best reward for being the one to do the most DPS? How fast do you think vote kicking will start punishing people for being the best player? Day effing 1 of when vote kick would be released and This I have seen in FPS games. Top players get vote kicked to improve everyone elses standing in the match and is the reason we shut that option off on our server. It was abused nearly every single match an admin wasnt on. So no vote kicking will not remain used just on the worst of the worst. (Funny story about running that game server, some unknown player initiated a vote kick on me the server admin because he was told no spawn camping. I permanently banned him from the server.)
Ive seen people come into a match and just pick someone at random and initiate a vote, being a server admin i got to see how many votes were yes and there was always more than 3 in an 8 player server. Allot of people will just click YES to get the window off the screen without even reading it and there will always be some smacktard that initiates it every single match they join.
Just 1 kick for any other reason than afk or griefing is enough to justify not having a vote kick option. It is that simple and I think some of those that want the option want it for reasons above and beyond AFK/griefers, others have never got to withess the abuse from an administartion point of view that comes with the option.
Best option is Ignore = no queue together. This stops griefers from ever joining a match with you, stops people who are on the ignore list for other reasons, this stops AFKers, this cannot be abused to ruin someone elses gameplay by having them kicked for any reason.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek: