"Parallels", the TNG ep you're referring to doesn't access those alternate realities via timetravel.
But as the ENT episode "In a Mirror Darkly (Part I)" shows, it's still possible for the prime universe to connect to an alternate universe at a different point in time; thus, (as STO demonstrates ) the 'prime' universe timeline still exists and is unaltered.
TLDR: From ENT's 'In A MIrror Darkly' it's possible to go to an alternate universe's past from the 'prime' universe's 'present' allowing BOTH universes and timelines to still exist. :eek:;):D
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
That gaping plot hole didn't make much sense in the prequel comic either.:D
Not sure how it didn't make sense. He was captured by Klingons due do the damage the Narada took from George Kirk. They kept in imprisoned for 20 some odd years. It's even mentioned in the movie. His breakout is the transmission Uhura intercepted. Him being held prisoner by the klingons is even in the deleted scenes on the DVD.
I'm not saying it's a great plot device. I mean, it's just there so Kirk and crew had time to grow up. But I don't understand how it didn't make sense.
Not sure how it didn't make sense. He was captured by Klingons due do the damage the Narada took from George Kirk. They kept in imprisoned for 20 some odd years. It's even mentioned in the movie. His breakout is the transmission Uhura intercepted. Him being held prisoner by the klingons is even in the deleted scenes on the DVD.
I'm not saying it's a great plot device. I mean, it's just there so Kirk and crew had time to grow up. But I don't understand how it didn't make sense.
Yeah, it's kind of like in TWoK - nearly all Khan's surviving followers are shown to have blonde hair; yet if you look back at the 73 followers who were de-thawed on the TOS 'Space Seed' episode, not one Blonde amiong them (What? A 'yay' for recessive genes maybe? )
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Not sure how it didn't make sense. He was captured by Klingons due do the damage the Narada took from George Kirk. They kept in imprisoned for 20 some odd years. It's even mentioned in the movie. His breakout is the transmission Uhura intercepted. Him being held prisoner by the klingons is even in the deleted scenes on the DVD.
I'm not saying it's a great plot device. I mean, it's just there so Kirk and crew had time to grow up. But I don't understand how it didn't make sense.
Yeah. It's a plot device, but it's no stranger for Trek then any other plot device they've used. I mean, what are the odds the woman Decker loves would be the one taken control of by V'ger so they can merge?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
But as the ENT episode "In a Mirror Darkly (Part I)" shows, it's still possible for the prime universe to connect to an alternate universe at a different point in time; thus, (as STO demonstrates ) the 'prime' universe timeline still exists and is unaltered.
TLDR: From ENT's 'In A MIrror Darkly' it's possible to go to an alternate universe's past from the 'prime' universe's 'present' allowing BOTH universes and timelines to still exist. :eek:;):D
another fun one is Visionary. O'brien gets replaced by his future self from an alternate timeline that no longer exists... probably...
another fun one is Visionary. O'brien gets replaced by his future self from an alternate timeline that no longer exists... probably...
That one had my favorite Star Trek time travel line, when both Obriens are trying to figure out how they BOTH manage to exist and uin the end just blurt out:
"I HATE temporal mechanics!"
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah. It's a plot device, but it's no stranger for Trek then any other plot device they've used. I mean, what are the odds the woman Decker loves would be the one taken control of by V'ger so they can merge?
Yeah, I totally agree. I definitely wasn't saying it in a bad way. I was just responding to the comment that it didn't make sense. It made perfect sense. I might not have been super-realistic, but it was no weaker than many plot devices in Star Trek.
Yeah, I totally agree. I definitely wasn't saying it in a bad way. I was just responding to the comment that it didn't make sense. It made perfect sense. I might not have been super-realistic, but it was no weaker than many plot devices in Star Trek.
I've often hear dthis referred to as "Plot induced stupidity". The story NEEDS to go in a certain direction so the writer finds soemthing to make it go that way even if it isn't good.
I've often hear dthis referred to as "Plot induced stupidity". The story NEEDS to go in a certain direction so the writer finds soemthing to make it go that way even if it isn't good.
All Stories need to go in a certain direction. Whether its good or not is subjective.
Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who think these fantasy universes are real...
All Stories need to go in a certain direction. Whether its good or not is subjective.
Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who think these fantasy universes are real...
His point is there's many ways to move a plot and bad writers tend to do it in stupid ways. For example, they want Data to save Picard so they turn Picard into a whimpering idiot who's going to let his crew die from a thalaron radiation blast. Bad plot device.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I thought Into Darkness was fine. It's completely contradictory to what I wanted them to do with the reboot, which was (and still is, really) to tell new Star Trek stories rather than rehash stories we've already seen, but that said...I thought they did a good job rehashing a story we'd already seen.
I know a lot of people don't care for the glitz and pacing of the reboot, but I find it more interesting and accessible than the sometimes-stuffy vibe of the TOS/TNG movies. For lack of a better term, JJ's direction has personality, which I think is a welcome thing.
The movie also touched on some relevant themes and metaphors for modern society, in its ethical issues related to appropriate responses to terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. They didn't put these issues front and centre, but they were there, which I appreciated.
The perfect Star Trek movie? Nah. The worst ever? Well, no...I'd say I enjoyed it more than The (Slow) Motion Picture, The Search for Spock, The Final Frontier, Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The only real issue I have with Into Darkness has been voiced by other women all over the web, as seen in these two examples here and here (these are only two of many, but they should get the point across).
I'm absolutely not a puritan, and I have no problem with sexuality or nudity in movies or on TV (or "gratuitous underwear," as some are referring to a particular scene), but that poorly done bit seems as if it were tossed into the script for no reason but to have a bit of racy content, and it simply doesn't work, and, as one of the reviews says, it's only the tip of the iceberg. One of the reviews points out that we've seen Starfleet girls in their underwear in the first J.J. Trek, and that it fit into the storyline, which is true. In more than one TOS episode ("The Entirprise Incident," for one example), we see underwear, too, but again, it fit into the storyline.
The most glaring example of what's wrong can best be stated as follows: Uhura is supposed to be a strong woman, not a simpering shadow to a man (even so awesome a man as Spock).
Admittedly, I haven't seen the film yet, but is there any justification for Carol wearing science officer's blues? I appreciate that in PrimeVerse later life, she is a scientist, and is refferred to previously as a blonde scientist, but why is she wearing blues, and being identified as a weapons expert? She should be wearing the red uniform of ship's services (I guess JJ didn't want her to be visually confused with Uhura, or possibly not care that the color of her uniform was not that of a weapons expert... )
Admittedly, I haven't seen the film yet, but is there any justification for Carol wearing science officer's blues? I appreciate that in PrimeVerse later life, she is a scientist, and is refferred to previously as a blonde scientist, but why is she wearing blues, and being identified as a weapons expert? She should be wearing the red uniform of ship's services (I guess JJ didn't want her to be visually confused with Uhura, or possibly not care that the color of her uniform was not that of a weapons expert... )
In the movie Carol is a Science Officer - her degree is Physics. She just happens to use her Physics knowledge to make weapons. She's still science, just like Spock.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
In the movie Carol is a Science Officer - her degree is Physics. She just happens to use her Physics knowledge to make weapons. She's still science, just like Spock.
Ahh, that is what I wondered, it just seemed strange that she was being promoted as a weapons expert, as opposed to a scientist, so wondered if that was clarified in the movie :cool:
In ST 2, the Genesis Device was created in a compact casing that could easily be fitted into a torpedo.....
anyways though, it's not much a a divergence, IF it can be considered a divergence at all. The Genesis project used high-energy particle physics to reconstruct matter on the molecular lavel, almost like a giant replicator... Thus Carol Marcus, in the original timeline, must have been an expert in that field as well as biology.
In ST 2, the Genesis Device was created in a compact casing that could easily be fitted into a torpedo.....
anyways though, it's not much a a divergence, IF it can be considered a divergence at all. The Genesis project used high-energy particle physics to reconstruct matter on the molecular lavel, almost like a giant replicator... Thus Carol Marcus, in the original timeline, must have been an expert in that field as well as biology.
The Genesis device was never intended to be a weapon... The decision to use a torpedo was simply a logical choice of delivery method... If Carol's a weapons expert, so be it, I just wondered if there was any explanation given in movie as to why she was considered a weapons expert as well as being the science officer she was already known to be, or if it was just some kind of marketing spin to make her sound badass
The Genesis device was never intended to be a weapon... The decision to use a torpedo was simply a logical choice of delivery method... If Carol's a weapons expert, so be it, I just wondered if there was any explanation given in movie as to why she was considered a weapons expert as well as being the science officer she was already known to be, or if it was just some kind of marketing spin to make her sound badass
True enough. I was just pointing out that it was soemwhat unfair to categorize the old version as just a biologist. She did have extensive knowledge in other areas too. But it's not really clear if weapons were one of them.
True enough. I was just pointing out that it was soemwhat unfair to categorize the old version as just a biologist. She did have extensive knowledge in other areas too. But it's not really clear if weapons were one of them.
Personally, from WoK, I didn't get the impression Carol was anything but a scientist
Personally, from WoK, I didn't get the impression Carol was anything but a scientist
Well the point I was making is that the original had knowledge in multiple branches of science... she obviously had knowledge of biology and high-energy physics.
The new version knows how to work with weapons that use high energy physics. The new version *might* not be a biologist, but both of them were physicists.
I wasn't really trying to say that either was a weapons specialist...
Personally, from WoK, I didn't get the impression Carol was anything but a scientist
That was old Carol. This is young Carol. Many of us do things in our youth that we try to make amends for in our later years.
And there are a lot of scientists in a lot of different fields that find themselves involved with weapons or medical developments. There are probably just as many biologists dealing with toxins and their various uses as there are food production.
The physicist who invented transporters probably didn't realize his invention could be used to transport people off a ship and into space to kill them without conflict losses - or maybe he did realize it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Well the point I was making is that the original had knowledge in multiple branches of science... she obviously had knowledge of biology and high-energy physics.
The new version knows how to work with weapons that use high energy physics. The new version *might* not be a biologist, but both of them were physicists.
I wasn't really trying to say that either was a weapons specialist...
Having not seen ID, this is what I was uncertain of: if there was indeed justification/qualification in the movie for her being classed as a weapons expert in the write-ups
That was old Carol. This is young Carol. Many of us do things in your youth that we try to make amends for in our later years.
And there are a lot of scientists in a lot of different fields that find themselves involved with weapons or medical developments. There are probably just as many biologists dealing with toxins and their various uses as there are food production.
The physicist who invented transporters probably didn't realize his invention could be used to transport people off a ship and into space to kill them without conflict losses - or maybe he did realize it.
That's very true, the military does have a habit of weaponsing scientific breakthroughs
That's very true, the military does have a habit of weaponsing scientific breakthroughs
Quite a one-sided implication you're making here. James Cameron. How many scientific breakthroughs have been discovered at the behest of the military or assisted by them? And last I checked, the 1st people into space both in the US and former USSR were all in the service.
Quite a one-sided implication you're making here. James Cameron. How many scientific breakthroughs have been discovered at the behest of the military or assisted by them? And last I checked, the 1st people into space both in the US and former USSR were all in the service.
Why would you not know? Start with radar, advancement in computers, and development of the jet plane during WW II. Breaking of the sound barrier afterward. None of that is exclusively used for military purposes.
The reboots are great SCI FI MOVIES, they are NOT GREAT TREK, get it right people. Change the ships name, change starfleet, change the characters names and the uniforms, and you have a great ****ing scifi movie, but these will never be trek to me.
Why would you not know? Start with radar, advancement in computers, and development of the jet plane during WW II. Breaking of the sound barrier afterward. None of that is exclusively used for military purposes.
actually all of those things were developed first for military purposes and then applied to non military things.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
But as the ENT episode "In a Mirror Darkly (Part I)" shows, it's still possible for the prime universe to connect to an alternate universe at a different point in time; thus, (as STO demonstrates
TLDR: From ENT's 'In A MIrror Darkly' it's possible to go to an alternate universe's past from the 'prime' universe's 'present' allowing BOTH universes and timelines to still exist. :eek:;):D
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Not sure how it didn't make sense. He was captured by Klingons due do the damage the Narada took from George Kirk. They kept in imprisoned for 20 some odd years. It's even mentioned in the movie. His breakout is the transmission Uhura intercepted. Him being held prisoner by the klingons is even in the deleted scenes on the DVD.
I'm not saying it's a great plot device. I mean, it's just there so Kirk and crew had time to grow up. But I don't understand how it didn't make sense.
Yeah, it's kind of like in TWoK - nearly all Khan's surviving followers are shown to have blonde hair; yet if you look back at the 73 followers who were de-thawed on the TOS 'Space Seed' episode, not one Blonde amiong them (What? A 'yay' for recessive genes maybe?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
My character Tsin'xing
That one had my favorite Star Trek time travel line, when both Obriens are trying to figure out how they BOTH manage to exist and uin the end just blurt out:
"I HATE temporal mechanics!"
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah, I totally agree. I definitely wasn't saying it in a bad way. I was just responding to the comment that it didn't make sense. It made perfect sense. I might not have been super-realistic, but it was no weaker than many plot devices in Star Trek.
My character Tsin'xing
All Stories need to go in a certain direction. Whether its good or not is subjective.
Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who think these fantasy universes are real...
I know a lot of people don't care for the glitz and pacing of the reboot, but I find it more interesting and accessible than the sometimes-stuffy vibe of the TOS/TNG movies. For lack of a better term, JJ's direction has personality, which I think is a welcome thing.
The movie also touched on some relevant themes and metaphors for modern society, in its ethical issues related to appropriate responses to terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. They didn't put these issues front and centre, but they were there, which I appreciated.
The perfect Star Trek movie? Nah. The worst ever? Well, no...I'd say I enjoyed it more than The (Slow) Motion Picture, The Search for Spock, The Final Frontier, Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis.
I'm absolutely not a puritan, and I have no problem with sexuality or nudity in movies or on TV (or "gratuitous underwear," as some are referring to a particular scene), but that poorly done bit seems as if it were tossed into the script for no reason but to have a bit of racy content, and it simply doesn't work, and, as one of the reviews says, it's only the tip of the iceberg. One of the reviews points out that we've seen Starfleet girls in their underwear in the first J.J. Trek, and that it fit into the storyline, which is true. In more than one TOS episode ("The Entirprise Incident," for one example), we see underwear, too, but again, it fit into the storyline.
The most glaring example of what's wrong can best be stated as follows: Uhura is supposed to be a strong woman, not a simpering shadow to a man (even so awesome a man as Spock).
Ahh, that is what I wondered, it just seemed strange that she was being promoted as a weapons expert, as opposed to a scientist, so wondered if that was clarified in the movie :cool:
In ST 2, the Genesis Device was created in a compact casing that could easily be fitted into a torpedo.....
anyways though, it's not much a a divergence, IF it can be considered a divergence at all. The Genesis project used high-energy particle physics to reconstruct matter on the molecular lavel, almost like a giant replicator... Thus Carol Marcus, in the original timeline, must have been an expert in that field as well as biology.
My character Tsin'xing
Who are these "fans" who think their opinion is better than others. No this smells of fanboy.
DeltaFox
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Genesis device was never intended to be a weapon... The decision to use a torpedo was simply a logical choice of delivery method... If Carol's a weapons expert, so be it, I just wondered if there was any explanation given in movie as to why she was considered a weapons expert as well as being the science officer she was already known to be, or if it was just some kind of marketing spin to make her sound badass
My character Tsin'xing
Personally, from WoK, I didn't get the impression Carol was anything but a scientist
The new version knows how to work with weapons that use high energy physics. The new version *might* not be a biologist, but both of them were physicists.
I wasn't really trying to say that either was a weapons specialist...
My character Tsin'xing
And there are a lot of scientists in a lot of different fields that find themselves involved with weapons or medical developments. There are probably just as many biologists dealing with toxins and their various uses as there are food production.
The physicist who invented transporters probably didn't realize his invention could be used to transport people off a ship and into space to kill them without conflict losses - or maybe he did realize it.
Having not seen ID, this is what I was uncertain of: if there was indeed justification/qualification in the movie for her being classed as a weapons expert in the write-ups
That's very true, the military does have a habit of weaponsing scientific breakthroughs
why does God need a starship?
"he's as dangerous as a ferret with a chainsaw."
None of them were boogeymen...
Oh wait, that probably doesn't count...
Modern Cellphone tech is derived from something originally developed for military applications.
My character Tsin'xing
The reboots are great SCI FI MOVIES, they are NOT GREAT TREK, get it right people. Change the ships name, change starfleet, change the characters names and the uniforms, and you have a great ****ing scifi movie, but these will never be trek to me.
actually all of those things were developed first for military purposes and then applied to non military things.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.