Nice stats on the ships, unfortunatley elachi are disgusting fungus monsters with ugly ships so its not something I'd actually be willing to use for my captains.
how is that even possible? its with out a doubt the best tac cruiser in the game by far. its like the galor, only it can use DHCs, and has 4 tac consoles. its second only to the scimitar as far as cruiser like things go.
Plenty of reasons why it is NOT the best cruiser in game :
- Below average hull, heck even a Destroyer has same amount of hull than a supposed cruiser
- No Lt. Commander Sci boff station possible, aka. impossible to do PSW or GW
- Impossible to do APO3 or CRF3
- No hangar
- Slow, impulse modifier of many 40K+ hull cruisers reach 0.18 while this one is only 0.15
- No Cloak
- Some Cruisers have higher shield modifier at 1.3+ while having more hull
- Some cruisers have more Tact console slots and more adept at being a Tactical vessel
So what exactly is this "Cruiser" being superior? Please enlighten us? I am positive you can't objectively do so. Clearly, some people are driven by emotions of "new toys" as opposed to being logical. Breaking this ship down, it's a hybrid that has gone wrong - average at everything and best at nothing.
they really are of their rocker with that escort. that ship will have incredible spike soak and regeneration, and if you got that nothing short of a nuk is any real threat to something with a 16 turn rate and access to APO. hull durability of the tvaro will be plenty. additional shield hitpoints have always been way more valuable for the amount of hull they tend to exchange for it. no escort should have greater then a 1.0 shield mod.
More emotional outbursts that are so detached from reality. Plenty of escorts have shield modifier higher than 1.0. Did anyone forget, Valdore is an Escort too? :rolleyes: Timeship Destroyer anyone? Turn rate of 16 is below average among Escorts, by comparison, the Risian Corvette has a turn rate of 25
Let's do a quick benchmark of the Elachi Escort :
?Hull Strength: 28,500 (Significantly below Escort Average)
?Shield Modifier: 1.3 (Much higher than Escort Average)
?Crew: 200 (Average hull repair speed)
?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)?Device Slots: 2 (Slightly below Average among Escorts as some have more than 2 slots and no less than 2)
?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Sci focus tact escort, different set up, personal preference, not quantifiable)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 2 Engineering, 4 Science (Average Escort set up)
?Base Turn Rate: 16 degrees per second (About Average Escort set up, if not slightly below average among lock box ships)?Impulse Modifier: 0.2 (Escort Average)
?+10 Weapon Subsystem, +5 Engine Subsystems (Escort Average)
?Can Load Cannons (Standard Escort capabilities)
As you can see, there are more red than blue, meaning more features which are below the average Escorts than above. This Escort is a piece of TRIBBLE considering it's a lock box ship with so many features which are below average. To compare, let's do the same test for another lock box Escort :
?Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer
?Hull Strength: 39,000 (Significantly above average hull than average Escorts, Cruiser like)
?Shield Modifier: 1.1 (Above average shield modifier for Escorts)?Crew: 1200 (Significantly above average hull repair rate due to high number of crew)?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)
?Device Slots: 3 (Above average of Escort device slots)?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Personal preference, impossible to quantify)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science (Standard Escort Set Up)?Base Turn Rate: 11 degrees per second (Below Average Escort Turn rate, compensated by a Cloaking device however)?Impulse Modifier: 0.18 (Slightly Below Average Impulse Modifier)?+10 Weapon Subsystems, +5 Engine Subsystems, +5 Shield Subsystems (Above Average Bonus Power Output, comparable to Cruisers)?Can Load Cannons (Standard Feature)
?Adapted Cloaking Device (Considered a Plus if Federation, as Fed Escorts do not have a built-in Cloak)?Sensor Analysis (Feature unavailable to other Escorts, therefore, a major plus)
As you can see here, a lock box escort should have more blue features vs. red than average escorts.
The only sensible conclusion about the Elachi Escort, objectively speaking is that it's TRIBBLE, too many functions that are below average even compared to free ships. Naturally, some people will buy anything that is new & fancy.
Though keep in mind that the materials/lighting/skyfile were pretty much all taken straight from the kit, which was made by another artist. I just assembled them all into a different shape.
Hmm I could be wrong but I seem to recall all that gas floating around the Elachi bridge as being poisonous to non Elachi.:P Oh well breathing is for the weak who needs air anyways!:P
Derp. That's my fault. If people feel strongly about it, I can pull the FX. Just thought they looked good, didn't think about gameplay effects. (I hadn't worked on the Elachi ship missions)
Derp. That's my fault. If people feel strongly about it, I can pull the FX. Just thought they looked good, didn't think about gameplay effects. (I hadn't worked on the Elachi ship missions)
Well, it's different and neat looking... maybe a button to turn it off, like turning on the lights on a Tholian bridge?
Plenty of reasons why it is NOT the best cruiser in game: blah blah blah
You......you're joking right? 39k hull is standard on cruiser, 1.2 shields is better than any cruiser except the Adapted Tal Shiar, 3-5 sci boff stations is lots on a cruiser, 4 tac consoles is more than any cruiser except the Bortasqu Tac (which pays a price for that) and on and on and on. Honestly, in the tac-oriented offensive-cruiser role, what else would you use?
- No Lt. Commander Sci boff station possible, aka. impossible to do PSW or GW
2 worthless abilities on a cruiser. on a tac cruiser that is best used with a 2 AtB build, the last thing you want are high level sci skills that need lots of aux.
even more impossible if you had a high end station that could use PSW or GW on this ship. what, you want this cruiser to have a COM tac and LTC sci? it wouldn't even be a cruiser then. :rolleyes:
- Slow, impulse modifier of many 40K+ hull cruisers reach 0.18 while this one is only 0.15
the galor has a tad more and ONLY the big fat tal cruiser has .18, not many. i'll take the turn rate over the impusle mod any day, especially when EPtE at least doubles impulse speed anyway, total non issue.
not everything can be a warbird. its a very durrable cruiser, not something that needs to hit and run. kdf cruisers get a slight opening attack advantage, but non of them can run AtB builds, have as high end of tac skills, and that many tac consoles all at once.
- Some Cruisers have higher shield modifier at 1.3+ while having more hull
none have more then 1.3, the galor and Tal Shiar are the only cruisers with a higher mod. i'll take the turn rate over the tal's hit points and poor 7 turn rate, on a tac cruiser running DHCs.
So what exactly is this "Cruiser" being superior? Please enlighten us? I am positive you can't objectively do so. Clearly, some people are driven by emotions of "new toys" as opposed to being logical. Breaking this ship down, it's a hybrid that has gone wrong - average at everything and best at nothing.
what a stupid list of complaints. not only are most of them completely unfounded, but your not even comparing this tac cruiser with other tac cruisers, your complaining its not a sci ship, carrier or escort! hate cruisers much? or do you just not know a good combination of stats when you see them?
10 turn rate
average or above average hitpoints and shield mod
DHC use
4 tac consoles
LTC tac
COM and LT eng
2AtB ready
it literally has it all. these are the important factors, every other tac heavy cruiser falls short in one of these categories, except this ship.
More emotional outbursts that are so detached from reality. Plenty of escorts have shield modifier higher than 1.0. Did anyone forget, Valdore is an Escort too? :rolleyes: Timeship Destroyer anyone? Turn rate of 16 is below average among Escorts, by comparison, the Risian Corvette has a turn rate of 25
Let's do a quick benchmark of the Elachi Escort :
?Hull Strength: 28,500 (Significantly below Escort Average)
?Shield Modifier: 1.3 (Much higher than Escort Average)
?Crew: 200 (Average hull repair speed)
?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)?Device Slots: 2 (Slightly below Average among Escorts as some have more than 2 slots and no less than 2)
?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Sci focus tact escort, different set up, personal preference, not quantifiable)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 2 Engineering, 4 Science (Average Escort set up)
?Base Turn Rate: 16 degrees per second (About Average Escort set up, if not slightly below average among lock box ships)?Impulse Modifier: 0.2 (Escort Average)
?+10 Weapon Subsystem, +5 Engine Subsystems (Escort Average)
?Can Load Cannons (Standard Escort capabilities)
As you can see, there are more red than blue, meaning more features which are below the average Escorts than above. This Escort is a piece of TRIBBLE considering it's a lock box ship with so many features which are below average. To compare, let's do the same test for another lock box Escort :
?Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer
?Hull Strength: 39,000 (Significantly above average hull than average Escorts, Cruiser like)
?Shield Modifier: 1.1 (Above average shield modifier for Escorts)?Crew: 1200 (Significantly above average hull repair rate due to high number of crew)?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)
?Device Slots: 3 (Above average of Escort device slots)?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Personal preference, impossible to quantify)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science (Standard Escort Set Up)?Base Turn Rate: 11 degrees per second (Below Average Escort Turn rate, compensated by a Cloaking device however)?Impulse Modifier: 0.18 (Slightly Below Average Impulse Modifier)?+10 Weapon Subsystems, +5 Engine Subsystems, +5 Shield Subsystems (Above Average Bonus Power Output, comparable to Cruisers)?Can Load Cannons (Standard Feature)
?Adapted Cloaking Device (Considered a Plus if Federation, as Fed Escorts do not have a built-in Cloak)?Sensor Analysis (Feature unavailable to other Escorts, therefore, a major plus)
As you can see here, a lock box escort should have more blue features vs. red than average escorts.
The only sensible conclusion about the Elachi Escort, objectively speaking is that it's TRIBBLE, too many functions that are below average even compared to free ships. Naturally, some people will buy anything that is new & fancy.
ya, that post was totally boiling over with emotion. it had all those exclamation marks, caped words and emoticons :rolleyes:
its another escort thats absurdly durable, wile also being plenty dangerous. its funny reading what you consider average, like a 2/4/4 console layout on an escort. a better comparison would be against the temporal destroyer. its pretty close to being the same, only it turns better, had more shields but less hull. the station setup even lines up pretty close after you will the universals in a typical arrangement.
the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer looks like a nice ship with bloated stats, till you see its lowest of all the escorts 11 turn rate. cruisers stats make more sense on it then
theres seems to be a disconnect between whats important on a ship, and what you thinks important.
Derp. That's my fault. If people feel strongly about it, I can pull the FX. Just thought they looked good, didn't think about gameplay effects. (I hadn't worked on the Elachi ship missions)
You're trying to Kill us again!!!! :eek:....although it would be cool to invite people to my bridge, then poison them:cool:
Derp. That's my fault. If people feel strongly about it, I can pull the FX. Just thought they looked good, didn't think about gameplay effects. (I hadn't worked on the Elachi ship missions)
lol, ya you get re breathers just so you can board the ship without gaging. its a signature thing in the environment though, and cool looking, it would be a shame to remove it i guess, but it most certainly wouldn't be there after a usability refit was given to it for fed/kdf/rom use.
more then 4? only the bortasqu can have more, and it is NOT more adept at being a Tactical vessel
.
Bortasqu can launch a decloaking attack with DEM3 and 4 DHC buffed by 5 tac consoles, no other ship can do that, even people that RSP as soon as someone launches a decloaking attack usually can't survive this, it just rips right through it. Its tanky enough that you can mostly just be in reverse or at low speed most of the time while fighting, between doing that, epte, tractor beam, and omega I don't have problems with it, its the best tac cruiser, especially in a 1v1 situation or for decloaking attacks.
The Subspace Transceiver, when its equiped on the Escort will it only summon the Support craft or both the Support AND Control craft? The Dev Blog was a little vague on this point.
oh quit ******** i can make that esscort into a beast and still win in pvp if i had the time stop moaning at everything that comes out cos its not up to your standereds if you don't like it don't by lock box and key simple as that.
Average of T5 Cruisers across all factions: 43,032
Maybe in your wacky world of imagination, 1 + 1 = 3 but the numbers don't lie. No Federation Cruisers has hull below 39,600. The Elachi Cruiser having a hull of 39K is significantly below the average among cruisers, this fact is indisputable.
2 worthless abilities on a cruiser. on a tac cruiser that is best used with a 2 AtB build, the last thing you want are high level sci skills that need lots of aux.
Translation : This is sourgrapian speaking, if I can't have it, then it's useless. :rolleyes:
even more impossible if you had a high end station that could use PSW or GW on this ship. what, you want this cruiser to have a COM tac and LTC sci? it wouldn't even be a cruiser then. :rolleyes:
uh...are you new or pretend to be one? There are plenty of ships with Com Tac and LTC Sci stations or universal. Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser says hello for example? It can do APO3 while GW you. Then again, your emotional outbursts show you can't be reasoned with logically, even if someone used facts and smack your face with them. First time I heard choice & versatility is a bad thing. :rolleyes:
good. has summonable pets though, 1 with VM, and the other heals you
Which wasted one precious console slot as opposed to a hangar. NPC which fires VM is nothing to write home about. I wonder if its VM will last 0.5 of a second against most builds in PvP considering Minimax's super charged VM barely lasts 2 seconds? And if I want a pet which fires VM, no need to waste a console slot for it. The D'Deridex Distress Call consumable from Romulan Reputation will summon a DD Warbird that can and will do VM and the pack comes in a package of 10 calls. It requires no device slot nor console space, just placed it in your inventory. I am willing to bet most people gushing over the Elachi VM firing pet didn't know they can get a VM firing pet without this fancy console.
the galor has a tad more and ONLY the big fat tal cruiser has .18, not many. i'll take the turn rate over the impusle mod any day, especially when EPtE at least doubles impulse speed anyway, total non issue.
uh...such a short memory, eh? Scimitar was just out last month and it appears you have forgot it completely. Same impulse mode of 0.18, higher than this Elachi cruiser, modified turn rate with console set bonus and post-clock effect (unique to Scim) is significantly higher than the 0.10 turn rate.
not everything can be a warbird. its a very durrable cruiser, not something that needs to hit and run. kdf cruisers get a slight opening attack advantage, but non of them can run AtB builds, have as high end of tac skills, and that many tac consoles all at once.
That's because kdf cruisers suck big time, they are only fit to be zombie tanks. The question is, does one want to spend all those money on an average cruiser or the best cruiser money can buy? If the answer is the latter, then clearly, it needs to be benchmarked against the best cruisers, not the worst ones.
none have more then 1.3, the galor and Tal Shiar are the only cruisers with a higher mod. i'll take the turn rate over the tal's hit points and poor 7 turn rate, on a tac cruiser running DHCs.
ROFL! Let me help you with another dose of reality check :
This cruiser has 5 tact consoles, in my world 5 is > than 4, maybe not yours but that's another problem. It can do APO3, have 5 fore weapons, can battlecloak, can equip cannons, have more hull, have real pets - everything that is needed to be a more deadly tactical vessel.
I realize getting facts straight is not your forte, so it's best you refrain making a fool of yourself.
Bortasqu can launch a decloaking attack with DEM3 and 4 DHC buffed by 5 tac consoles, no other ship can do that, even people that RSP as soon as someone launches a decloaking attack usually can't survive this, it just rips right through it. Its tanky enough that you can mostly just be in reverse or at low speed most of the time while fighting, between doing that, epte, tractor beam, and omega I don't have problems with it, its the best tac cruiser, especially in a 1v1 situation or for decloaking attacks.
if you dont get your kill in that opening attack, your ship is galaxyX tier. your beter off useing it as a beam boat. any beam boat or escort could dance around it as it attempts to get those forward weapons pointing at its target again. its not going to win with the crummy on target uptime it will have. a base 10 turn battle cruiser can out dual a bug on the other hand
Average of T5 Cruisers across all factions: 43,032
Maybe in your wacky world of imagination, 1 + 1 = 3 but the numbers don't lie. No Federation Cruisers has hull below 39,600. The Elachi Cruiser having a hull of 39K is significantly below the average among cruisers, this fact is indisputable.
Translation : This is sourgrapian speaking, if I can't have it, then it's useless. :rolleyes:
uh...are you new or pretend to be one? There are plenty of ships with Com Tac and LTC Sci stations or universal. Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser says hello for example? It can do APO3 while GW you. Then again, your emotional outbursts show you can't be reasoned with logically, even if someone used facts and smack your face with them. First time I heard choice & versatility is a bad thing. :rolleyes:
Which wasted one precious console slot as opposed to a hangar. NPC which fires VM is nothing to write home about. I wonder if its VM will last 0.5 of a second against most builds in PvP considering Minimax's super charged VM barely lasts 2 seconds? And if I want a pet which fires VM, no need to waste a console slot for it. The D'Deridex Distress Call consumable from Romulan Reputation will summon a DD Warbird that can and will do VM and the pack comes in a package of 10 calls. It requires no device slot nor console space, just placed it in your inventory. I am willing to bet most people gushing over the Elachi VM firing pet didn't know they can get a VM firing pet without this fancy console.
uh...such a short memory, eh? Scimitar was just out last month and it appears you have forgot it completely. Same impulse mode of 0.18, higher than this Elachi cruiser, modified turn rate with console set bonus and post-clock effect (unique to Scim) is significantly higher than the 0.10 turn rate.
That's because kdf cruisers suck big time, they are only fit to be zombie tanks. The question is, does one want to spend all those money on an average cruiser or the best cruiser money can buy? If the answer is the latter, then clearly, it needs to be benchmarked against the best cruisers, not the worst ones.
ROFL! Let me help you with another dose of reality check :
This cruiser has 5 tact consoles, in my world 5 is > than 4, maybe not yours but that's another problem. It can do APO3, have 5 fore weapons, can battlecloak, can equip cannons, have more hull, have real pets - everything that is needed to be a more deadly tactical vessel.
I realize getting facts straight is not your forte, so it's best you refrain making a fool of yourself.
You love picking fights on the forums with people don't you.
Technically the Recluse is a carrier. The Scimitar is a "Dreadnought Warbird", nowhere is it mentioned as being a cruiser anywhere, and it doesn't have the main feature cruisers have, Cmdr Eng it has cruiser hull and turn, but so do carriers and they aren't cruiser either. The recluse can have cmdr eng, but 6 weapon ships still aren't cruisers either, most carriers are just sci ships that give up a lot of turn and sensor analysis for 2 hangars and more hull.
The 39k hull on the Elachi cruiser isn't the highest, but its on par with free cruisers, like the Federation assault cruiser and star cruiser, and its higher then the excelsior, (not the fleet version) these are all still t5 cruisers with lower hull then the Elachi cruiser, so who is the fool?
You don't even play KDF so don't even try to say KDF cruisers suck, you never tried them, lucky for you my tac switches ships all the time as I'm sure you've seen, so you never managed to run into my tac on days im in a bort.
Okay after reading the spec on the escort I had to laugh out loud, because I felt that something was wrong. If these lockboxes ships Continue in the game, soon we will have a more broken game than we already have.escort with higher shield modifier really, someone please tell me that was a joke.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
You love picking fights on the forums with people don't you.
Technically the Recluse is a carrier. The Scimitar is a "Dreadnought Warbird", nowhere is it mentioned as being a cruiser anywhere, and it doesn't have the main feature cruisers have, Cmdr Eng it has cruiser hull and turn, but so do carriers and they aren't cruiser either. The recluse can have cmdr eng, but 6 weapon ships still aren't cruisers either, most carriers are just sci ships that give up a lot of turn and sensor analysis for 2 hangars and more hull.
The 39k hull on the Elachi cruiser isn't the highest, but its on par with free cruisers, like the Federation assault cruiser and star cruiser, and its higher then the excelsior, (not the fleet version) these are all still t5 cruisers with lower hull then the Elachi cruiser, so who is the fool?
You don't even play KDF so don't even try to say KDF cruisers suck, you never tried them, lucky for you my tac switches ships all the time as I'm sure you've seen, so you never managed to run into my tac on days im in a bort.
^^ I agree, that poster was a little aggressive lol. The 39k hull is just fine , considering what you are getting.
Okay after reading the spec on the escort I had to laugh out loud, because I felt that something was wrong. If these lockboxes ships Continue in the game, soon we will have a more broken game than we already have.escort with higher shield modifier really, someone please tell me that was a joke.
Another pvp whiner...lol
If you want to have that same competitive edge then go and get yourself one and stop complaining about the ship.
I will own both Elachi ships tomorrow, the day they are released :P I look forward to that 1.3 shield mod on my new shiny escort
Wow , i see that you did not even try this time around with the lock boxes. Again the little pew-pew ship and the carrier thing crapping out some kind of combat pet. Star Trek Online has become less Star Trek and more Star Wars meets Pokemon meets captain Kirk. Even the mirror ships are just re-runs of re-runs.
Technically the Recluse is a carrier. The Scimitar is a "Dreadnought Warbird", nowhere is it mentioned as being a cruiser anywhere, and it doesn't have the main feature cruisers have, Cmdr Eng it has cruiser hull and turn, but so do carriers and they aren't cruiser either.
Meanwhile I can argue Rainier Cherries aren't really cherries because they aren't purple. Your narrow definition of what a cruiser is a laughable attempt to be obstinate. I will not play this game with you.
The 39k hull on the Elachi cruiser isn't the highest, but its on par with free cruisers, like the Federation assault cruiser and star cruiser, and its higher then the excelsior, (not the fleet version) these are all still t5 cruisers with lower hull then the Elachi cruiser, so who is the fool?
Uh...why are we comparing it to the non-fleet version? The non-fleet version has 9 consoles space, no people in their sound mind would use it for PvP knowing that an exact same ship is available with 10 consoles + upgrades? Let me guess? Because you can't win an argument when comparing apples to apples? :rolleyes: But here is the fleet version for your reference : http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Advanced_Heavy_Cruiser_Retrofit
Hull of 42,900
But hey, if we use the Fleet version, then you can't claim they have lower hull because they aren't? Such selective data mining can only fool idiots, not the vast majority of people reading this thread.
You don't even play KDF so don't even try to say KDF cruisers suck, you never tried them, lucky for you my tac switches ships all the time as I'm sure you've seen, so you never managed to run into my tac on days im in a bort.
If you want to have that same competitive edge then go and get yourself one and stop complaining about the ship.
I will own both Elachi ships tomorrow, the day they are released :P I look forward to that 1.3 shield mod on my new shiny escort
What gave you the Impression that am a PvP whiner. I have never pvp in this game before so I don't know what you are talking about. Am a Sci captain and all I see is Tac ships are always getting better and better every time there is an update. Don't Assume that what you like someone will also like them. I have never like the idea of the lockboxes in this game I will keep say it. If you are going to own these Vessels that fine but please do not call me a whiner because am Entitled to my Opinion that what forums are about.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
What gave you the Impression that am a PvP whiner. I have never pvp in this game before so I don't know what you are talking about. Am a Sci captain and all I see is Tac ships are always getting better and better every time there is an update. Don't Assume that what you like someone will also like them. I have never like the idea of the lockboxes in this game I will keep say it. If you are going to own these Vessels that fine but please do not call me a whiner because am Entitled to my Opinion that what forums are about.
^^ I agree, that poster was a little aggressive lol. Considering this person only has single digit of posts but goes around name calling anyone who disagrees, it is best to just ignore completely.
^^ I agree, that poster was a little aggressive lol. Considering this person only has single digit of posts but goes around name calling anyone who disagrees, it is best to just ignore completely.
That is the best you can come up with eh? ROFL
What a sad, little existence you have. There is no need to be jealous of the other players who can afford these lockbox and lobi ships, and go out posting page long responses talking smack about ship stats in a thread about something new being added to the game just because you do not like it, or you THINK it is inferior to what is already available.
People like me, and many others are going to spend money to get them, if you can not, then do so when you can
Discussion is over for me, have a good rest of your day sir!
Meanwhile I can argue Rainier Cherries aren't really cherries because they aren't purple. Your narrow definition of what a cruiser is a laughable attempt to be obstinate. I will not play this game with you.
Meanwhile, what you're doing is saying "anything that looks sort of like a cherry is one, because reasons".
If you want to have a discussion about what should "count" as a cruiser, that's fine, but don't pretend like your standard is any less arbitrary at this point. I certainly would take a great deal of convincing that (say) carriers "count" as a cruiser.
Uh...why are we comparing it to the non-fleet version?
Because the claim in question seemed to be about the merits versus ALL cruisers, not just "Cruisers and cruiser-like ships iskandus likes"? I mean, I can't speak to the actual reasoning, since I didn't write it, but this seems like a logical deduction to me.
But hey, if we use the Fleet version, then you can't claim they have lower hull because they aren't? Such selective data mining can only fool idiots, not the vast majority of people reading this thread.
You are spot on here. Arbitrary inclusions and exclusions of ships is bad. You should stop doing it.
Comments
Plenty of reasons why it is NOT the best cruiser in game :
- Below average hull, heck even a Destroyer has same amount of hull than a supposed cruiser
- No Lt. Commander Sci boff station possible, aka. impossible to do PSW or GW
- Impossible to do APO3 or CRF3
- No hangar
- Slow, impulse modifier of many 40K+ hull cruisers reach 0.18 while this one is only 0.15
- No Cloak
- Some Cruisers have higher shield modifier at 1.3+ while having more hull
- Some cruisers have more Tact console slots and more adept at being a Tactical vessel
So what exactly is this "Cruiser" being superior? Please enlighten us? I am positive you can't objectively do so. Clearly, some people are driven by emotions of "new toys" as opposed to being logical. Breaking this ship down, it's a hybrid that has gone wrong - average at everything and best at nothing.
More emotional outbursts that are so detached from reality. Plenty of escorts have shield modifier higher than 1.0. Did anyone forget, Valdore is an Escort too? :rolleyes: Timeship Destroyer anyone? Turn rate of 16 is below average among Escorts, by comparison, the Risian Corvette has a turn rate of 25
Let's do a quick benchmark of the Elachi Escort :
?Hull Strength: 28,500 (Significantly below Escort Average)
?Shield Modifier: 1.3 (Much higher than Escort Average)
?Crew: 200 (Average hull repair speed)
?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)?Device Slots: 2 (Slightly below Average among Escorts as some have more than 2 slots and no less than 2)
?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Sci focus tact escort, different set up, personal preference, not quantifiable)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 2 Engineering, 4 Science (Average Escort set up)
?Base Turn Rate: 16 degrees per second (About Average Escort set up, if not slightly below average among lock box ships)?Impulse Modifier: 0.2 (Escort Average)
?+10 Weapon Subsystem, +5 Engine Subsystems (Escort Average)
?Can Load Cannons (Standard Escort capabilities)
As you can see, there are more red than blue, meaning more features which are below the average Escorts than above. This Escort is a piece of TRIBBLE considering it's a lock box ship with so many features which are below average. To compare, let's do the same test for another lock box Escort :
?Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer
?Hull Strength: 39,000 (Significantly above average hull than average Escorts, Cruiser like)
?Shield Modifier: 1.1 (Above average shield modifier for Escorts)?Crew: 1200 (Significantly above average hull repair rate due to high number of crew)?Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft (Standard Escort Set Up)
?Device Slots: 3 (Above average of Escort device slots)?Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Ensign Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 2 Lieutenant Universal (Personal preference, impossible to quantify)?Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science (Standard Escort Set Up)?Base Turn Rate: 11 degrees per second (Below Average Escort Turn rate, compensated by a Cloaking device however)?Impulse Modifier: 0.18 (Slightly Below Average Impulse Modifier)?+10 Weapon Subsystems, +5 Engine Subsystems, +5 Shield Subsystems (Above Average Bonus Power Output, comparable to Cruisers)?Can Load Cannons (Standard Feature)
?Adapted Cloaking Device (Considered a Plus if Federation, as Fed Escorts do not have a built-in Cloak)?Sensor Analysis (Feature unavailable to other Escorts, therefore, a major plus)
As you can see here, a lock box escort should have more blue features vs. red than average escorts.
The only sensible conclusion about the Elachi Escort, objectively speaking is that it's TRIBBLE, too many functions that are below average even compared to free ships. Naturally, some people will buy anything that is new & fancy.
Aye.
Though keep in mind that the materials/lighting/skyfile were pretty much all taken straight from the kit, which was made by another artist. I just assembled them all into a different shape.
. . .alright, the same shape.
Definitely not the case. They are both 6 sided rooms, but they were each built from scratch, and pretty different in a number of ways.
Derp. That's my fault. If people feel strongly about it, I can pull the FX. Just thought they looked good, didn't think about gameplay effects. (I hadn't worked on the Elachi ship missions)
Well, it's different and neat looking... maybe a button to turn it off, like turning on the lights on a Tholian bridge?
You......you're joking right? 39k hull is standard on cruiser, 1.2 shields is better than any cruiser except the Adapted Tal Shiar, 3-5 sci boff stations is lots on a cruiser, 4 tac consoles is more than any cruiser except the Bortasqu Tac (which pays a price for that) and on and on and on. Honestly, in the tac-oriented offensive-cruiser role, what else would you use?
2 worthless abilities on a cruiser. on a tac cruiser that is best used with a 2 AtB build, the last thing you want are high level sci skills that need lots of aux.
even more impossible if you had a high end station that could use PSW or GW on this ship. what, you want this cruiser to have a COM tac and LTC sci? it wouldn't even be a cruiser then. :rolleyes:
good. has summonable pets though, 1 with VM, and the other heals you
the galor has a tad more and ONLY the big fat tal cruiser has .18, not many. i'll take the turn rate over the impusle mod any day, especially when EPtE at least doubles impulse speed anyway, total non issue.
not everything can be a warbird. its a very durrable cruiser, not something that needs to hit and run. kdf cruisers get a slight opening attack advantage, but non of them can run AtB builds, have as high end of tac skills, and that many tac consoles all at once.
none have more then 1.3, the galor and Tal Shiar are the only cruisers with a higher mod. i'll take the turn rate over the tal's hit points and poor 7 turn rate, on a tac cruiser running DHCs.
more then 4? only the bortasqu can have more, and it is NOT more adept at being a Tactical vessel
what a stupid list of complaints. not only are most of them completely unfounded, but your not even comparing this tac cruiser with other tac cruisers, your complaining its not a sci ship, carrier or escort! hate cruisers much? or do you just not know a good combination of stats when you see them?
10 turn rate
average or above average hitpoints and shield mod
DHC use
4 tac consoles
LTC tac
COM and LT eng
2AtB ready
it literally has it all. these are the important factors, every other tac heavy cruiser falls short in one of these categories, except this ship.
ya, that post was totally boiling over with emotion. it had all those exclamation marks, caped words and emoticons :rolleyes:
its another escort thats absurdly durable, wile also being plenty dangerous. its funny reading what you consider average, like a 2/4/4 console layout on an escort. a better comparison would be against the temporal destroyer. its pretty close to being the same, only it turns better, had more shields but less hull. the station setup even lines up pretty close after you will the universals in a typical arrangement.
the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer looks like a nice ship with bloated stats, till you see its lowest of all the escorts 11 turn rate. cruisers stats make more sense on it then
theres seems to be a disconnect between whats important on a ship, and what you thinks important.
you serious?
You're trying to Kill us again!!!! :eek:....although it would be cool to invite people to my bridge, then poison them:cool:
lol, ya you get re breathers just so you can board the ship without gaging. its a signature thing in the environment though, and cool looking, it would be a shame to remove it i guess, but it most certainly wouldn't be there after a usability refit was given to it for fed/kdf/rom use.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
LOL, I enjoy tearing you apart to make you look like a fool :
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Heavy_Cruiser_Retrofit : 39,600
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Star_Cruiser : 42,900
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Advanced_Heavy_Cruiser_Retrofit : 42,900
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Support_Cruiser_Retrofit : 43,450
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Exploration_Cruiser_Retrofit : 44,000
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Odyssey_Star_Cruiser : 42,000
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Vo%27Quv_Carrier : 46,200
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Bortas_Battle_Cruiser : 43,500
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Negh%27Var_Heavy_Battle_Cruiser : 42,900
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_D%27deridex_Warbird_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit : 44,500
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Scimitar_Dreadnought_Warbird : 40,000
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tal_Shiar_Adapted_Battle_Cruiser : 42,000
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tholian_Recluse_Carrier : 43,500
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jem%E2%80%99Hadar_Dreadnought_Carrier : 45,000
Average of T5 Cruisers across all factions: 43,032
Maybe in your wacky world of imagination, 1 + 1 = 3 but the numbers don't lie. No Federation Cruisers has hull below 39,600. The Elachi Cruiser having a hull of 39K is significantly below the average among cruisers, this fact is indisputable.
Translation : This is sourgrapian speaking, if I can't have it, then it's useless. :rolleyes:
uh...are you new or pretend to be one? There are plenty of ships with Com Tac and LTC Sci stations or universal. Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser says hello for example? It can do APO3 while GW you. Then again, your emotional outbursts show you can't be reasoned with logically, even if someone used facts and smack your face with them. First time I heard choice & versatility is a bad thing. :rolleyes:
Which wasted one precious console slot as opposed to a hangar. NPC which fires VM is nothing to write home about. I wonder if its VM will last 0.5 of a second against most builds in PvP considering Minimax's super charged VM barely lasts 2 seconds? And if I want a pet which fires VM, no need to waste a console slot for it. The D'Deridex Distress Call consumable from Romulan Reputation will summon a DD Warbird that can and will do VM and the pack comes in a package of 10 calls. It requires no device slot nor console space, just placed it in your inventory. I am willing to bet most people gushing over the Elachi VM firing pet didn't know they can get a VM firing pet without this fancy console.
uh...such a short memory, eh? Scimitar was just out last month and it appears you have forgot it completely. Same impulse mode of 0.18, higher than this Elachi cruiser, modified turn rate with console set bonus and post-clock effect (unique to Scim) is significantly higher than the 0.10 turn rate.
That's because kdf cruisers suck big time, they are only fit to be zombie tanks. The question is, does one want to spend all those money on an average cruiser or the best cruiser money can buy? If the answer is the latter, then clearly, it needs to be benchmarked against the best cruisers, not the worst ones.
ROFL! Let me help you with another dose of reality check :
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tholian_Recluse_Carrier : The best known tank/cruiser in pvp, shield modifier = 1.375
It makes me wonder do you pvp or just pretend to be? Anyone who has pvp knows about the Recluse, you appear to be an exception.
Here, let me help you : http://sto.gamepedia.com/Scimitar_Dreadnought_Warbird
This cruiser has 5 tact consoles, in my world 5 is > than 4, maybe not yours but that's another problem. It can do APO3, have 5 fore weapons, can battlecloak, can equip cannons, have more hull, have real pets - everything that is needed to be a more deadly tactical vessel.
I realize getting facts straight is not your forte, so it's best you refrain making a fool of yourself.
if you dont get your kill in that opening attack, your ship is galaxyX tier. your beter off useing it as a beam boat. any beam boat or escort could dance around it as it attempts to get those forward weapons pointing at its target again. its not going to win with the crummy on target uptime it will have. a base 10 turn battle cruiser can out dual a bug on the other hand
Technically the Recluse is a carrier. The Scimitar is a "Dreadnought Warbird", nowhere is it mentioned as being a cruiser anywhere, and it doesn't have the main feature cruisers have, Cmdr Eng it has cruiser hull and turn, but so do carriers and they aren't cruiser either. The recluse can have cmdr eng, but 6 weapon ships still aren't cruisers either, most carriers are just sci ships that give up a lot of turn and sensor analysis for 2 hangars and more hull.
The 39k hull on the Elachi cruiser isn't the highest, but its on par with free cruisers, like the Federation assault cruiser and star cruiser, and its higher then the excelsior, (not the fleet version) these are all still t5 cruisers with lower hull then the Elachi cruiser, so who is the fool?
You don't even play KDF so don't even try to say KDF cruisers suck, you never tried them, lucky for you my tac switches ships all the time as I'm sure you've seen, so you never managed to run into my tac on days im in a bort.
^^ I agree, that poster was a little aggressive lol. The 39k hull is just fine , considering what you are getting.
Another pvp whiner...lol
If you want to have that same competitive edge then go and get yourself one and stop complaining about the ship.
I will own both Elachi ships tomorrow, the day they are released :P I look forward to that 1.3 shield mod on my new shiny escort
Meanwhile I can argue Rainier Cherries aren't really cherries because they aren't purple. Your narrow definition of what a cruiser is a laughable attempt to be obstinate. I will not play this game with you.
Uh...why are we comparing it to the non-fleet version?
Hull of 42,900
But hey, if we use the Fleet version, then you can't claim they have lower hull because they aren't? Such selective data mining can only fool idiots, not the vast majority of people reading this thread.
Fresh screenshot taken yesterday: Ms. Seles@marc8219 's Cruiser blowing up
It appears, your zombie/super tank cruiser went Kabooom at the hands of my tricobalt. Wait, you probably forgot already.
What gave you the Impression that am a PvP whiner. I have never pvp in this game before so I don't know what you are talking about. Am a Sci captain and all I see is Tac ships are always getting better and better every time there is an update. Don't Assume that what you like someone will also like them. I have never like the idea of the lockboxes in this game I will keep say it. If you are going to own these Vessels that fine but please do not call me a whiner because am Entitled to my Opinion that what forums are about.
^^ I agree, that poster was a little aggressive lol. Considering this person only has single digit of posts but goes around name calling anyone who disagrees, it is best to just ignore completely.
Understatement
Reason I don't PvP can be summarized in the several of the recent posts. It's like watching cave men bash one another over the head with clubs :P
- Thot Gar - Commanding Officer of the Braaktak Kaan
That is the best you can come up with eh? ROFL
What a sad, little existence you have. There is no need to be jealous of the other players who can afford these lockbox and lobi ships, and go out posting page long responses talking smack about ship stats in a thread about something new being added to the game just because you do not like it, or you THINK it is inferior to what is already available.
People like me, and many others are going to spend money to get them, if you can not, then do so when you can
Discussion is over for me, have a good rest of your day sir!
Meanwhile, what you're doing is saying "anything that looks sort of like a cherry is one, because reasons".
If you want to have a discussion about what should "count" as a cruiser, that's fine, but don't pretend like your standard is any less arbitrary at this point. I certainly would take a great deal of convincing that (say) carriers "count" as a cruiser.
Because the claim in question seemed to be about the merits versus ALL cruisers, not just "Cruisers and cruiser-like ships iskandus likes"? I mean, I can't speak to the actual reasoning, since I didn't write it, but this seems like a logical deduction to me.
You are spot on here. Arbitrary inclusions and exclusions of ships is bad. You should stop doing it.