Technically, but they'll win a single kill. Kills and deaths are what get counted for their team to go on to the next level. So if there are 4 teams in a group, and that 5 man gets that magic 1 kill per match, they'll only have 3 kills total. How is that going to stack up against other groups that do many times more? 3 single kills over a whole day will leave them dead in the water
Are you saying kills count more than victories? Could you please explain the way your system is going to work because that makes no sense to me. I figured kill count (or kill:death ratio) would only be used in a tie-breaker situation.
Certainly sounds like fun, We'll be in touch once I've proposed the tournament to the clan
Should you want to contact me please use the details below in my signature or contact me in game via @Korbin - Hopefully the [UF] can report in for killing duties!
>Can't have more than 4 hangars
>Can't use Yellowstones, Elite Interceptors, Romulan Drone Ships
>Can't have more than 3 tac/eng/sci
>Can't have more than 2 the same ship
>Can't use Boarding Party
>Can't use Dkora EMP burst
>Can't use scramble sensors with DOFFs
>Can't use Grav Pulse
>Can't use Temporal Inversion
>Will change the rules as we see fit
Real skill in spamming a2b powered emp burst every minute? Especially with 3 dkoras?
Lock down for minutes on end with boarding parties if done in a certain manner without any clears in a 30 main match?
Are we playing pet wars? Last I checked this section said PvP?
40+ second aoe lock down with grav pulse in a limited time match? Imagine 5 doing it....
30+ second aoe sub nuke and confuse with scramble doffs? Imagine 5 doing it......
Now imagine all the above being done to each other by the opponents. Who would kill each other and where would the fun be?
Unless, you know how to counter all that at once I don't think I'd call it a "No BS" if all the opponents did were throw around those abilities and nothing else.
Patience in a 30 min match to kill with all that going on? Come on.....
you should post what ship types you are talking about, because for me a brel is not the same thing as a bug ship, a breen ship is not the same as a mvae... so i guess i could run 2 bugs 2 brels and 1 bortas and should be on the rules...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
you should post what ship types you are talking about, because for me a brel is not the same thing as a bug ship, a breen ship is not the same as a mvae... so i guess i could run 2 bugs 2 brels and 1 bortas and should be on the rules...
This does not mean general ship class. A Jemmy is an escort but you can still have two of those, two MVAMs & a Defiant if thats what you're into.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Can't wait for 5v5 all-cloaked matchups where the match ends 0-0 with nobody firing a shot :x
It's pretty crazy to go from the last bs tourney which was no cloaked ships to this one, where there are no restrictions at all on cloaked ships. We've been talking about and testing some stuff at NvC, and all we can do is laugh and shake our heads at what is possible with no rules about cloaked ships. It's your tourney and your rules, but there is definitely gonna be some bullsh*t going down in this no bs tourney if our testing is any indication.
Can't wait for 5v5 all-cloaked matchups where the match ends 0-0 with nobody firing a shot :x
It's pretty crazy to go from the last bs tourney which was no cloaked ships to this one, where there are no restrictions at all on cloaked ships. We've been talking about and testing some stuff at NvC, and all we can do is laugh and shake our heads at what is possible with no rules about cloaked ships. It's your tourney and your rules, but there is definitely gonna be some bullsh*t going down in this no bs tourney if our testing is any indication.
You do realize it's always been possible but frowned on? Maybe not fvk but after 08/2010 it was.....
You do realize it's always been possible but frowned on? Maybe not fvk but after 08/2010 it was.....
Razor anyone?
What is your suggestion?
Is it ban all cloaked ships?
Well, there is a big problem in the game right now whether people want to admit it or not. The people that don't admit it, and that are still using it, well, I don't know what else to say other than they're flat-out lying or just stupid. That problem is having 2 romulan escorts with battle-cloak and double tap builds. Two tac rommies with battle cloak can kill any ship (i.e. Recluse, Wells, etc.) in 1 second flat. It doesn't matter if you pre-buff HE, TSS, Extend Shields, Aux2SIF, have all resist consoles (i.e. neutronium/specific weapon-type armor) and field generators. You still die. There is some stuff you can do to somewhat counter it, but it is based on universal consoles that have a longer cooldown than even APA.
My suggestion? Limit teams to 1 cloaked ship. One cloaked rommie can still inflict massive damage while getting the majority of the kills on the team, but it wouldn't be guaranteed insta-pops like unleashing 2 cloaked rommies with double-tap would bring. We've played against it and we've tested it in-house and it's stupid OP.
I will tell you this: banning all cloaked ships is a better idea than having no restrictions on cloaked ships at all. I think allowing 1 cloaked ship per team would be a good compromise. At NvC, we don't run double tap cloak builds because we simply don't find it fun or challenging, but we have seriously been considering running it for this tourney for the simple fact that we know others will be running it and it is the best counter that we can come up with.
A tourney without cloak restrictions would have been fine a few months ago, but now with all the rommie ships with battle cloak, the rommie boffs that give +cloak and +crit, the doffs that add bleedthrough and weapons power/damage, the new weapons that have 100% shield penetration proc, and the additional damage coming out of cloak that rommies receive...well, it's a world of hurt and imbalanced as ****.
Can't wait for 5v5 all-cloaked matchups where the match ends 0-0 with nobody firing a shot :x
It's pretty crazy to go from the last bs tourney which was no cloaked ships to this one, where there are no restrictions at all on cloaked ships. We've been talking about and testing some stuff at NvC, and all we can do is laugh and shake our heads at what is possible with no rules about cloaked ships. It's your tourney and your rules, but there is definitely gonna be some bullsh*t going down in this no bs tourney if our testing is any indication.
Oh don't worry Devolved, if it is a load of bull**** I'm confident you'll be at the front of the queue to moan.
And if it's not bull**** I'm confident Shift will be at the front just moaning in general.
Roll up Nova Core #5?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
The definition of no bs is what ever the team running the tourney thinks is bs not everyone else. Thats why these tournaments with rules are total bs they only ban things they dont like with no criteria for what makes something broken except its annoying it killed me the other team was using it when they beat me or it throws my macro off.
The true criteria should be does it have a counter is there a defense to it is it everyone carrying 2 copies of it lol. So grav pulse 50 sec disable fully specced with consoles i doubt your 2 escorts are speccing into decompiler so that leaves 3 people who could use it but would lack in alot of other important areas that you could take advantage of.
So yes you could have 5 50 sec grav pulses but its unlikely. grav pulse has multiple counters if you sit in a grav pulse for 50 seconds you suck and your team sucks. inversion field only worth using on non dps ships or destroyer best used on the wells. This ability has so many counters and requirements to use there is no way it should be banned.
I will admit when used in combination with other abilities it can be useful but isnt that what the game is about using effective combos to shut someone down. Just like you need a nuke tractor vm gas to keep someone in a gravwell. The soft subnuke thing is just bs it is nowhere near as deadly as subnuke.
Restriction on hanger pets and bays is ok no real problem i think 2 carriers can create enough spam. No more then 3 captain types is a total bs rule if it wasnt a bs rule it would limit this to 2. The reason it is not is so the teams can have there 3 subnukes and scans and sci fleets.
Now they can use 2 snb to kill you and 1 to nuke your dps alpha wich is spam in its own way. Boarding party is op when it lands but very easily countered.The dkora emp with a2b is broken but ban the use of it with a2b it would be easy to monitor.
Now on to the real problem stuff that is not banned that you will see all these fleets fly that is broken . Ewp double tap bo with either marion or the bleed through doffs plasma hyperflux wich i guess noone really knows about that yet but hyper flux does have counters.
We all know from the previous no bs tourney that ewp will fill the screen if you can see it the rommies will be decloaking and doing double tap you will be double or triple subnuked wich is what really kills you not the stuff these guys want you focusing on like p2w consoles.
I have never felt that i was killed because of some grav pulse or inversion but many times i knew i was killed by a double nuke or a double tap or a hyper flux and no there is no defense or counter to 2 rommies klink or feds decloaking with double tap and boffs BESIDES MT'S TOOL. So why arent these things banned because the said fleets like to use it. Any ability can be op if the whole team is using it so either limit none or all .
The definition of no bs is what ever the team running the tourney thinks is bs not everyone else. Thats why these tournaments with rules are total bs...
Okay, this is a prime example of the fact that people really don't understand just how hard it is to create a No BS tournament to which all sides agree.
A No BS tourni is DESIGNED to remove broken/spammy/unfairly overpowered/cheesy stuff to make the touri more enjoyable. The goal is to give teams to compete in a competition where skill, not spam, is king. The problem is that the PvP community is divided between the spammers and the skilled players, the first of which hate on the No BS rules and the second of which tend to agree with them.
Coming up with No BS rules isn't as each and peachy as you guys think. The hosting team has to come up with rules that effectively hold to the No BS goal and keep things fair for all involved. Seriously, though, how are the rules to the No BS IV, as you stated, "total BS"?
We banned Graviton Pulse. Why? No, not because it inconveniences us. We banned it because it has a rediculous 50-second hold effect. Now, you can whine and say "oh, it can be cleared by Engineering team! its not BS! your idiots for banning it!", but honestly, how many teams have 5 copies of Engineering team? What if Graviton Pulse was an AoE subnuc instead of an AoE hold? You'd be crying over the fact that you didn't have enough Science Teams, and that it was unfair and needed to be banned.
We blocked TIF, because (unless I'm mistaken) its one of the top 10 cheesiest moves in just about any MMO just about ever. Its not so bad on its own; its when you get those nooby premades that spam 5 copies of it. We banned it to prevent such scenarios.
Also, what do you mean "we don't ban the broken stuff"? Boarding Parties, D'Kora EMP, and Yellowstones/Interceptors are all banned for that reason.
I don't really see how you think the No BS rules are BS. Not at all.
And in regards to your second comment...
Thats why these tournaments with rules are total bs they only ban things they dont like with no criteria for what makes something broken except its annoying it killed me the other team was using it when they beat me or it throws my macro off.
All I can say is...talk to the hosts of the previous No BS tourament (No BS 3) if your looking to investigate that issue. As a member of the hosting fleet, I can assure you that we are NOT banning stuff just to make it easier for us to win. I remind you; Lag Industries (the hosting fleet) does NOT have a team competing.
The definition of no bs is what ever the team running the tourney thinks is bs not everyone else. Thats why these tournaments with rules are total bs they only ban things they dont like with no criteria for what makes something broken except its annoying it killed me the other team was using it when they beat me or it throws my macro off.
No, actually.
It was created to remove, a very very short list of items that are:
> Clearly broken, as in the mechanics are bugged and are doing things they should not be.
> Mindlessly cheesy/unfun/requires little to no skill
The other portion of the No BS banner was to keep it simple and primarily Have Fun (Rule #1, by the way), let as many players and as many builds take part without too many restrictions and each host fleet has put their own twist onto the rules - but this is the spirit in which the original No BS Tournament was created by Naz of Sad Pandas.
You, and everyone like you, are completely welcome to start your own tournament instead of spamming this thread to complain about your laundry list of gripes.
You won't do that however, because you, and everyone like you, completely and utterly lack the drive, motivation and fortitude to even consider such a thing.
Want to laugh in my face? Good, I encourage you to try.
Prove I am wrong, and organize the next, successful, tournament managing upwards of 80 to 100+ players across multiple fleets, the rules, the thread, the tears of the mewling diaper squad, the scoring - and then I will publicly apologize in that thread.
So double tap bleedthrough doffs with marion is working as intended. Where is the skill in that build?
Buff up decloak press space bar maybe throw a tractor or vm press space bar target dies. I still would like to see the 2 escorts spec after speccing 9 into decompiler and more then eng team clears it omega clears it.
And if you have omega up gp is useless but i know carrying an eng team is annoying. Tac teams and sci teams fit much better with your builds dont want to be bothered with carrying one of those.
Im not saying you made these rules to help your team you were just duped into following your new members rules from the first no bs tourney.My guess is you havent even done any hard testing on these abilities to see all the counters for them.
You just listen like a good little boy so dont act like everyone on here is stupid. You dont need 5 eng teams to prevent your whole team from getting grav pulsed you just need a few things you dont like to carry.
Am i going to really have to walk you through the inversion thing again there are more counters to this ability then any other abilty in the game. Yes 5 grav pulses can be annoying 5 inversions can be annoying but so can 5 scrambles 5 shockwaves 5 vm 5 extends double tap bo 5 ewp 5 eng cruisers 5 sci.
I could go on and on so what would make more sense is to limit everything to 2. Not just abilities you dont like because as far as i can see your arguement is that 5 of something makes the ability op or broken. Limit it to 2 capt types 2 ship types 2 console 2 of any bo ability but i guess i could still do double tap huh.
So double tap bleedthrough doffs with marion is working as intended. Where is the skill in that build?
Buff up decloak press space bar maybe throw a tractor or vm press space bar target dies. I still would like to see the 2 escorts spec after speccing 9 into decompiler and more then eng team clears it omega clears it.
And if you have omega up gp is useless but i know carrying an eng team is annoying. Tac teams and sci teams fit much better with your builds dont want to be bothered with carrying one of those.
Im not saying you made these rules to help your team you were just duped into following your new members rules from the first no bs tourney.My guess is you havent even done any hard testing on these abilities to see all the counters for them.
You just listen like a good little boy so dont act like everyone on here is stupid. You dont need 5 eng teams to prevent your whole team from getting grav pulsed you just need a few things you dont like to carry.
Am i going to really have to walk you through the inversion thing again there are more counters to this ability then any other abilty in the game. Yes 5 grav pulses can be annoying 5 inversions can be annoying but so can 5 scrambles 5 shockwaves 5 vm 5 extends double tap bo 5 ewp 5 eng cruisers 5 sci.
I could go on and on so what would make more sense is to limit everything to 2. Not just abilities you dont like because as far as i can see your arguement is that 5 of something makes the ability op or broken. Limit it to 2 capt types 2 ship types 2 console 2 of any bo ability but i guess i could still do double tap huh.
Guess you never flew a tanky ship eh?
My recluse counters it pretty good with:
Fleet ResA/B Covariant shields, 4 Shield cap mk xii purp consoles (21+K Shield hitpoints each facing)
2x EptS3, 4 neutronium mk xii purpl armor consoles.
Some nice healzzz
60+K hull hitpoints
Shield pet drones
Mhhh not even tacteam, omega, RSP or PH needed just some swift responses and spread out your over time heals, nobody can penetrate you
Oh thats where Sci's are truly king, Scattering field with super energy resist to hull for your whole team! Whooooo.
Originally Posted by timejumpers
So double tap bleedthrough doffs with marion is working as intended. Where is the skill in that build?
Buff up decloak press space bar maybe throw a tractor or vm press space bar target dies. I still would like to see the 2 escorts spec after speccing 9 into decompiler and more then eng team clears it omega clears it.
And if you have omega up gp is useless but i know carrying an eng team is annoying. Tac teams and sci teams fit much better with your builds dont want to be bothered with carrying one of those.
Im not saying you made these rules to help your team you were just duped into following your new members rules from the first no bs tourney.My guess is you havent even done any hard testing on these abilities to see all the counters for them.
You just listen like a good little boy so dont act like everyone on here is stupid. You dont need 5 eng teams to prevent your whole team from getting grav pulsed you just need a few things you dont like to carry.
Am i going to really have to walk you through the inversion thing again there are more counters to this ability then any other abilty in the game. Yes 5 grav pulses can be annoying 5 inversions can be annoying but so can 5 scrambles 5 shockwaves 5 vm 5 extends double tap bo 5 ewp 5 eng cruisers 5 sci.
I could go on and on so what would make more sense is to limit everything to 2. Not just abilities you dont like because as far as i can see your arguement is that 5 of something makes the ability op or broken. Limit it to 2 capt types 2 ship types 2 console 2 of any bo ability but i guess i could still do double tap huh.
Regarding double tap BO builds, it certainly takes more skill to execute (regarding timing, target selection, positioning etc) than to simply spec correctly and have a team coordinate throwing out 50 second graviton pulses.
You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with your enthusiastic endorsement of what abilities most sane people would characterise as cheese or broken.
It certainly is revealing of your mindset in your 'Stop the ignorance' post where you justify the use of questionable abilities/cheese as a legitimate counter to imaginary hax programs.
And it's obvious which crutch has the important attribute of actually existing..
EDIT: You do have a good point about the Ignore shield BO doffs though
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Zenith Nader - R.R.W. Nader4President - Tactical Rom KDF
Hei Qin - I.K.S. Apex Revenant -Tactical KDF
Fleet ResA/B Covariant shields, 4 Shield cap mk xii purp consoles (21+K Shield hitpoints each facing)
2x EptS3, 4 neutronium mk xii purpl armor consoles.
Some nice healzzz
60+K hull hitpoints
Shield pet drones
Mhhh not even tacteam, omega, RSP or PH needed just some swift responses and spread out your over time heals, nobody can penetrate you
Oh thats where Sci's are truly king, Scattering field with super energy resist to hull for your whole team! Whooooo.
Oh, so all you have to do is spend 250 million EC on a ship and defensive consoles and use selfish Lt.Cmdr. Boff abilities that leave your team mates out to dry and you might be able to withstand the double-tap if you get lucky. Yeah, that all sounds perfectly balanced.
I was trying something similar to this in my Recluse, but I had even more hull resistance because I was using 2 specific armor types of the weapons being used, plus 2 neutronium. Granted I only had 2 Field Gens, but a million field generators and EPtS900 won't even matter when the Beam Overload doff procs, especially if it procs on both double-tappers. I was dying with 90% of my shields still up. And once you add in debuffs that will be present in a match like sensor scan, fire on my mark, subnukes, and attack pattern beta, it really becomes quite the joke. All of this is on top of the insane crit chance and crit damage that Romulans can get from their Boffs.
Oh, and seriously? You're suggesting shield repair drones to save you from double taps? You're really clutching at straws now.
It was created to remove, a very very short list of items that are:
> Clearly broken, as in the mechanics are bugged and are doing things they should not be.
> Mindlessly cheesy/unfun/requires little to no skill
The other portion of the No BS banner was to keep it simple and primarily Have Fun (Rule #1, by the way), let as many players and as many builds take part without too many restrictions and each host fleet has put their own twist onto the rules - but this is the spirit in which the original No BS Tournament was created by Naz of Sad Pandas.
You, and everyone like you, are completely welcome to start your own tournament instead of spamming this thread to complain about your laundry list of gripes.
^^ THIS ^^
If you want to go in with a full cloak team, go ahead.... with the rules currently up it is allowed...
BUT...
if you do and win a round, or even the tournemant in this way, ask yourself this question :
Was this victory one that showed how skilled my team is, or will everyone just laugh and say... they could only win because they used a full cloaking team?
Same question can be used by every team using more than one double tap cloaker with multiple BO Doffs.
Just my thoughts... for me a good pvp players is one that wins because of skill....
Oh, so all you have to do is spend 250 million EC on a ship and defensive consoles and use selfish Lt.Cmdr. Boff abilities that leave your team mates out to dry and you might be able to withstand the double-tap if you get lucky. Yeah, that all sounds perfectly balanced.
I was trying something similar to this in my Recluse, but I had even more hull resistance because I was using 2 specific armor types of the weapons being used, plus 2 neutronium. Granted I only had 2 Field Gens, but a million field generators and EPtS900 won't even matter when the Beam Overload doff procs, especially if it procs on both double-tappers. I was dying with 90% of my shields still up. And once you add in debuffs that will be present in a match like sensor scan, fire on my mark, subnukes, and attack pattern beta, it really becomes quite the joke. All of this is on top of the insane crit chance and crit damage that Romulans can get from their Boffs.
Oh, and seriously? You're suggesting shield repair drones to save you from double taps? You're really clutching at straws now.
A notable thing to point out... Just because you die from the BO crit with shields up doesn't mean it's the BO doff.
Personally my tests with 2 of them was less than satisfactory. Got more overall damage
without.
Shields only absorb so much of the shock. Shield distribution and tact team will also refill
the shield facing hit.
BO critting for 40-90k, even after bleedthru it's probable to apply 40-50k damage directly to hull.
And shield repair drones are a fine pet on a recluse for team and self.
If you want to go in with a full cloak team, go ahead.... with the rules currently up it is allowed...
BUT...
if you do and win a round, or even the tournemant in this way, ask yourself this question :
Was this victory one that showed how skilled my team is, or will everyone just laugh and say... they could only win because they used a full cloaking team?
Same question can be used by every team using more than one double tap cloaker with multiple BO Doffs.
Just my thoughts... for me a good pvp players is one that wins because of skill....
No. The skill was for the last tourney. The B.S. is for this one. In the last tourney you didn't have to ask yourself anything because stupid OP broken sh*t wasn't allowed. You're essentially asking people to self-police themselves when you could easily set up the rules to where this would not be necessary. Might as well throw out all the rules and just ask people to play nice if this is your mentality.
I'm assuming (yes, I know USS_Ultimatum hates when I do this) that a Pandas team is going to join before the tourney fills up (if it fills up), especially since these rules specifically cater to their play-style (hmm, any back-room dealings going on between Pandas and Lag about the rules?). It would be shocking to me if they didn't come with 2 Romulan double-tappers since that seems to be all they're running nowadays.
Guy's lag is hosting, therefore they have the right to dictate the rules of their tourny.
Even though i may disagree with the use of ewp or the ban of abilities that might require ET to clear (hey what? engis run 'two copies' of et normaly?, wow engis are somewhat useful again), disagree with double tapping, helk even i disagree with keyboard macro binds (dis shields while firing anyone?)...
Let's not clog this thread.
Hosts reserve the right to run it as they please. If something is shown to be unworkable during the match, then lesson learned for later events.
No. The skill was for the last tourney. The B.S. is for this one. In the last tourney you didn't have to ask yourself anything because stupid OP broken sh*t wasn't allowed. You're essentially asking people to self-police themselves when you could easily set up the rules to where this would not be necessary. Might as well throw out all the rules and just ask people to play nice if this is your mentality.
I'm assuming (yes, I know USS_Ultimatum hates when I do this) that a Pandas team is going to join before the tourney fills up (if it fills up), especially since these rules specifically cater to their play-style (hmm, any back-room dealings going on between Pandas and Lag about the rules?). It would be shocking to me if they didn't come with 2 Romulan double-tappers since that seems to be all they're running nowadays.
The biggest complaint for the last tournament was that any real reason to take a full blooded Romulan or Klingon ship in were taken away.
In this one, Reg has chosen to address that and he is being shot at for it.
As for the "Back hand dealing" accusations, grow up!
I'll be honest, i have not really played the game since the Rommies were introduced, but the 10 rules i came up with for the first No BS Tournament (LINK), most would agree made it fun.
Put what went on before it into context (Constant failed tournament attempts) and then you will see why this took off.
Right now, it seems like you just want the same rules as the last tournament. If so, why? Reg's tournament. He's taking the time to organise it for all participants. Cut him some slack for God's sake.
Comments
Are you saying kills count more than victories? Could you please explain the way your system is going to work because that makes no sense to me. I figured kill count (or kill:death ratio) would only be used in a tie-breaker situation.
@DevolvedOne
Should you want to contact me please use the details below in my signature or contact me in game via @Korbin - Hopefully the [UF] can report in for killing duties!
https://twitter.com/Flamin_Gaming
Igniting You Passion For Gaming!
How is this "No BS"? You're a filthy liar for calling it as such. It takes real skill and patience to overcome the above, which you and your cronies clearly lack.
Real skill in spamming a2b powered emp burst every minute? Especially with 3 dkoras?
Lock down for minutes on end with boarding parties if done in a certain manner without any clears in a 30 main match?
Are we playing pet wars? Last I checked this section said PvP?
40+ second aoe lock down with grav pulse in a limited time match? Imagine 5 doing it....
30+ second aoe sub nuke and confuse with scramble doffs? Imagine 5 doing it......
Now imagine all the above being done to each other by the opponents. Who would kill each other and where would the fun be?
Unless, you know how to counter all that at once I don't think I'd call it a "No BS" if all the opponents did were throw around those abilities and nothing else.
Patience in a 30 min match to kill with all that going on? Come on.....
@DevolvedOne
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Not sure i appreciate that, but if your so confident, find some friends and enter a team?
Stay tuned for a bit more info. It's hard to word...
This does not mean general ship class. A Jemmy is an escort but you can still have two of those, two MVAMs & a Defiant if thats what you're into.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
It's pretty crazy to go from the last bs tourney which was no cloaked ships to this one, where there are no restrictions at all on cloaked ships. We've been talking about and testing some stuff at NvC, and all we can do is laugh and shake our heads at what is possible with no rules about cloaked ships. It's your tourney and your rules, but there is definitely gonna be some bullsh*t going down in this no bs tourney if our testing is any indication.
@DevolvedOne
You do realize it's always been possible but frowned on? Maybe not fvk but after 08/2010 it was.....
Razor anyone?
What is your suggestion?
Is it ban all cloaked ships?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well, there is a big problem in the game right now whether people want to admit it or not. The people that don't admit it, and that are still using it, well, I don't know what else to say other than they're flat-out lying or just stupid. That problem is having 2 romulan escorts with battle-cloak and double tap builds. Two tac rommies with battle cloak can kill any ship (i.e. Recluse, Wells, etc.) in 1 second flat. It doesn't matter if you pre-buff HE, TSS, Extend Shields, Aux2SIF, have all resist consoles (i.e. neutronium/specific weapon-type armor) and field generators. You still die. There is some stuff you can do to somewhat counter it, but it is based on universal consoles that have a longer cooldown than even APA.
My suggestion? Limit teams to 1 cloaked ship. One cloaked rommie can still inflict massive damage while getting the majority of the kills on the team, but it wouldn't be guaranteed insta-pops like unleashing 2 cloaked rommies with double-tap would bring. We've played against it and we've tested it in-house and it's stupid OP.
I will tell you this: banning all cloaked ships is a better idea than having no restrictions on cloaked ships at all. I think allowing 1 cloaked ship per team would be a good compromise. At NvC, we don't run double tap cloak builds because we simply don't find it fun or challenging, but we have seriously been considering running it for this tourney for the simple fact that we know others will be running it and it is the best counter that we can come up with.
A tourney without cloak restrictions would have been fine a few months ago, but now with all the rommie ships with battle cloak, the rommie boffs that give +cloak and +crit, the doffs that add bleedthrough and weapons power/damage, the new weapons that have 100% shield penetration proc, and the additional damage coming out of cloak that rommies receive...well, it's a world of hurt and imbalanced as ****.
@DevolvedOne
Oh don't worry Devolved, if it is a load of bull**** I'm confident you'll be at the front of the queue to moan.
And if it's not bull**** I'm confident Shift will be at the front just moaning in general.
Roll up Nova Core #5?
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
And im sure if enough people cast their opinions and concerns about full man cloak teams the rules can be slightly tweaked.
The true criteria should be does it have a counter is there a defense to it is it everyone carrying 2 copies of it lol. So grav pulse 50 sec disable fully specced with consoles i doubt your 2 escorts are speccing into decompiler so that leaves 3 people who could use it but would lack in alot of other important areas that you could take advantage of.
So yes you could have 5 50 sec grav pulses but its unlikely. grav pulse has multiple counters if you sit in a grav pulse for 50 seconds you suck and your team sucks. inversion field only worth using on non dps ships or destroyer best used on the wells. This ability has so many counters and requirements to use there is no way it should be banned.
I will admit when used in combination with other abilities it can be useful but isnt that what the game is about using effective combos to shut someone down. Just like you need a nuke tractor vm gas to keep someone in a gravwell. The soft subnuke thing is just bs it is nowhere near as deadly as subnuke.
Restriction on hanger pets and bays is ok no real problem i think 2 carriers can create enough spam. No more then 3 captain types is a total bs rule if it wasnt a bs rule it would limit this to 2. The reason it is not is so the teams can have there 3 subnukes and scans and sci fleets.
Now they can use 2 snb to kill you and 1 to nuke your dps alpha wich is spam in its own way. Boarding party is op when it lands but very easily countered.The dkora emp with a2b is broken but ban the use of it with a2b it would be easy to monitor.
Now on to the real problem stuff that is not banned that you will see all these fleets fly that is broken . Ewp double tap bo with either marion or the bleed through doffs plasma hyperflux wich i guess noone really knows about that yet but hyper flux does have counters.
We all know from the previous no bs tourney that ewp will fill the screen if you can see it the rommies will be decloaking and doing double tap you will be double or triple subnuked wich is what really kills you not the stuff these guys want you focusing on like p2w consoles.
I have never felt that i was killed because of some grav pulse or inversion but many times i knew i was killed by a double nuke or a double tap or a hyper flux and no there is no defense or counter to 2 rommies klink or feds decloaking with double tap and boffs BESIDES MT'S TOOL. So why arent these things banned because the said fleets like to use it. Any ability can be op if the whole team is using it so either limit none or all .
At least two of the people in this thread complaining about cloaks being allowed...
...we're also in the No BS 3 thread complaining that they WEREN'T allowed.
Hah. Funny.
Okay, this is a prime example of the fact that people really don't understand just how hard it is to create a No BS tournament to which all sides agree.
A No BS tourni is DESIGNED to remove broken/spammy/unfairly overpowered/cheesy stuff to make the touri more enjoyable. The goal is to give teams to compete in a competition where skill, not spam, is king. The problem is that the PvP community is divided between the spammers and the skilled players, the first of which hate on the No BS rules and the second of which tend to agree with them.
Coming up with No BS rules isn't as each and peachy as you guys think. The hosting team has to come up with rules that effectively hold to the No BS goal and keep things fair for all involved. Seriously, though, how are the rules to the No BS IV, as you stated, "total BS"?
We banned Graviton Pulse. Why? No, not because it inconveniences us. We banned it because it has a rediculous 50-second hold effect. Now, you can whine and say "oh, it can be cleared by Engineering team! its not BS! your idiots for banning it!", but honestly, how many teams have 5 copies of Engineering team? What if Graviton Pulse was an AoE subnuc instead of an AoE hold? You'd be crying over the fact that you didn't have enough Science Teams, and that it was unfair and needed to be banned.
We blocked TIF, because (unless I'm mistaken) its one of the top 10 cheesiest moves in just about any MMO just about ever. Its not so bad on its own; its when you get those nooby premades that spam 5 copies of it. We banned it to prevent such scenarios.
Also, what do you mean "we don't ban the broken stuff"? Boarding Parties, D'Kora EMP, and Yellowstones/Interceptors are all banned for that reason.
I don't really see how you think the No BS rules are BS. Not at all.
And in regards to your second comment...
All I can say is...talk to the hosts of the previous No BS tourament (No BS 3) if your looking to investigate that issue. As a member of the hosting fleet, I can assure you that we are NOT banning stuff just to make it easier for us to win. I remind you; Lag Industries (the hosting fleet) does NOT have a team competing.
No, actually.
It was created to remove, a very very short list of items that are:
> Clearly broken, as in the mechanics are bugged and are doing things they should not be.
> Mindlessly cheesy/unfun/requires little to no skill
The other portion of the No BS banner was to keep it simple and primarily Have Fun (Rule #1, by the way), let as many players and as many builds take part without too many restrictions and each host fleet has put their own twist onto the rules - but this is the spirit in which the original No BS Tournament was created by Naz of Sad Pandas.
You, and everyone like you, are completely welcome to start your own tournament instead of spamming this thread to complain about your laundry list of gripes.
You won't do that however, because you, and everyone like you, completely and utterly lack the drive, motivation and fortitude to even consider such a thing.
Want to laugh in my face? Good, I encourage you to try.
Prove I am wrong, and organize the next, successful, tournament managing upwards of 80 to 100+ players across multiple fleets, the rules, the thread, the tears of the mewling diaper squad, the scoring - and then I will publicly apologize in that thread.
Good luck, you're going to need it.
Buff up decloak press space bar maybe throw a tractor or vm press space bar target dies. I still would like to see the 2 escorts spec after speccing 9 into decompiler and more then eng team clears it omega clears it.
And if you have omega up gp is useless but i know carrying an eng team is annoying. Tac teams and sci teams fit much better with your builds dont want to be bothered with carrying one of those.
Im not saying you made these rules to help your team you were just duped into following your new members rules from the first no bs tourney.My guess is you havent even done any hard testing on these abilities to see all the counters for them.
You just listen like a good little boy so dont act like everyone on here is stupid. You dont need 5 eng teams to prevent your whole team from getting grav pulsed you just need a few things you dont like to carry.
Am i going to really have to walk you through the inversion thing again there are more counters to this ability then any other abilty in the game. Yes 5 grav pulses can be annoying 5 inversions can be annoying but so can 5 scrambles 5 shockwaves 5 vm 5 extends double tap bo 5 ewp 5 eng cruisers 5 sci.
I could go on and on so what would make more sense is to limit everything to 2. Not just abilities you dont like because as far as i can see your arguement is that 5 of something makes the ability op or broken. Limit it to 2 capt types 2 ship types 2 console 2 of any bo ability but i guess i could still do double tap huh.
Guess you never flew a tanky ship eh?
My recluse counters it pretty good with:
Fleet ResA/B Covariant shields, 4 Shield cap mk xii purp consoles (21+K Shield hitpoints each facing)
2x EptS3, 4 neutronium mk xii purpl armor consoles.
Some nice healzzz
60+K hull hitpoints
Shield pet drones
Mhhh not even tacteam, omega, RSP or PH needed just some swift responses and spread out your over time heals, nobody can penetrate you
Oh thats where Sci's are truly king, Scattering field with super energy resist to hull for your whole team! Whooooo.
Regarding double tap BO builds, it certainly takes more skill to execute (regarding timing, target selection, positioning etc) than to simply spec correctly and have a team coordinate throwing out 50 second graviton pulses.
You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself with your enthusiastic endorsement of what abilities most sane people would characterise as cheese or broken.
It certainly is revealing of your mindset in your 'Stop the ignorance' post where you justify the use of questionable abilities/cheese as a legitimate counter to imaginary hax programs.
And it's obvious which crutch has the important attribute of actually existing..
EDIT: You do have a good point about the Ignore shield BO doffs though
Zenith Nader - R.R.W. Nader4President - Tactical Rom KDF
Hei Qin - I.K.S. Apex Revenant -Tactical KDF
Oh, so all you have to do is spend 250 million EC on a ship and defensive consoles and use selfish Lt.Cmdr. Boff abilities that leave your team mates out to dry and you might be able to withstand the double-tap if you get lucky. Yeah, that all sounds perfectly balanced.
I was trying something similar to this in my Recluse, but I had even more hull resistance because I was using 2 specific armor types of the weapons being used, plus 2 neutronium. Granted I only had 2 Field Gens, but a million field generators and EPtS900 won't even matter when the Beam Overload doff procs, especially if it procs on both double-tappers. I was dying with 90% of my shields still up. And once you add in debuffs that will be present in a match like sensor scan, fire on my mark, subnukes, and attack pattern beta, it really becomes quite the joke. All of this is on top of the insane crit chance and crit damage that Romulans can get from their Boffs.
Oh, and seriously? You're suggesting shield repair drones to save you from double taps? You're really clutching at straws now.
@DevolvedOne
^^ THIS ^^
If you want to go in with a full cloak team, go ahead.... with the rules currently up it is allowed...
BUT...
if you do and win a round, or even the tournemant in this way, ask yourself this question :
Was this victory one that showed how skilled my team is, or will everyone just laugh and say... they could only win because they used a full cloaking team?
Same question can be used by every team using more than one double tap cloaker with multiple BO Doffs.
Just my thoughts... for me a good pvp players is one that wins because of skill....
A notable thing to point out... Just because you die from the BO crit with shields up doesn't mean it's the BO doff.
Personally my tests with 2 of them was less than satisfactory. Got more overall damage
without.
Shields only absorb so much of the shock. Shield distribution and tact team will also refill
the shield facing hit.
BO critting for 40-90k, even after bleedthru it's probable to apply 40-50k damage directly to hull.
And shield repair drones are a fine pet on a recluse for team and self.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No. The skill was for the last tourney. The B.S. is for this one. In the last tourney you didn't have to ask yourself anything because stupid OP broken sh*t wasn't allowed. You're essentially asking people to self-police themselves when you could easily set up the rules to where this would not be necessary. Might as well throw out all the rules and just ask people to play nice if this is your mentality.
I'm assuming (yes, I know USS_Ultimatum hates when I do this) that a Pandas team is going to join before the tourney fills up (if it fills up), especially since these rules specifically cater to their play-style (hmm, any back-room dealings going on between Pandas and Lag about the rules?). It would be shocking to me if they didn't come with 2 Romulan double-tappers since that seems to be all they're running nowadays.
@DevolvedOne
Even though i may disagree with the use of ewp or the ban of abilities that might require ET to clear (hey what? engis run 'two copies' of et normaly?, wow engis are somewhat useful again), disagree with double tapping, helk even i disagree with keyboard macro binds (dis shields while firing anyone?)...
Hosts reserve the right to run it as they please. If something is shown to be unworkable during the match, then lesson learned for later events.
Respect.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
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The biggest complaint for the last tournament was that any real reason to take a full blooded Romulan or Klingon ship in were taken away.
In this one, Reg has chosen to address that and he is being shot at for it.
As for the "Back hand dealing" accusations, grow up!
I'll be honest, i have not really played the game since the Rommies were introduced, but the 10 rules i came up with for the first No BS Tournament (LINK), most would agree made it fun.
Put what went on before it into context (Constant failed tournament attempts) and then you will see why this took off.
Right now, it seems like you just want the same rules as the last tournament. If so, why? Reg's tournament. He's taking the time to organise it for all participants. Cut him some slack for God's sake.
Nothing will be perfect cos we are all humans.
overal dmg is irrelevant. With 2 of them u can have an spike dmg that will blow up any ship
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)