So, instead of buffing existing BoPs, how about a new BoP 3-pack akin to the Andorian escorts?
No. The existing BOPs would still be weak, and besides I'm not spending more money just because they made the existing ships suck. Think about how that incentives Cryptic. The free Rommie ships suck so they sell more c-store and lockbox ships, now you want to recreate that incentive in KDF. No.
No. The existing BOPs would still be weak, and besides I'm not spending more money just because they made the existing ships suck. Think about how that incentives Cryptic. The free Rommie ships suck so they sell more c-store and lockbox ships, now you want to recreate that incentive in KDF. No.
Ok, true enough... but darn it I'm tired of having nothing but a Bortasqu' 3-pack available. :P
Besides, even the Feds rarely get any sort of boost to their ships, and the devs like them. Since the usual response is to give out new toys rather than fixing the old, I just figured I'd toss out some thoughts. We've both seen the post count on the What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic? thread... though part of that is a valid discussion of its intended role and whether that actually fits into STO's gameplay, but I digress.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Basic Stats
Hull: 27500
Shield Modifier: .85
Fore Weapons: 5
Aft Weapons: 2
Crew: 65
Device Slots: 2
Base Turn: 19
Impulse Modifier: .2
Universal Bridge Officer Seating: 2 Lt Commander, Lieutenant
Battle Cloak
"Super-fancy-only-this-ship weapon that I can't think of at the moment"
Tactical
Consoles: 2 Engineering, 3 Science, 5 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Tactical
Universal Console - Buffs the "Super-fancy-only-this-ship weapon that I can't think of at the moment" somehow without making it ridiculous. Your guess is as good as mine.
Engineering
Consoles: 4 Engineering, 2 Science, 4 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Engineering
Universal Console - Cloaking Distribution Module: Passive. This console alters the standard cloaking behavior by redistributing Shield power to Auxiliary, rather than actually disabling shields. This will allow the ship to retain shield power during the initial stages of cloaking, and increase stealth when fully cloaked. Any Shield power level increases applied after cloaking will be redistributed as well, allowing the potential for shields to "flicker" back up until that power is distributed away from shields. Power returns back to its normal settings at the usual power distribution rate upon leaving cloak, rather than "snapping" back up; this leaves the ship more vulnerable than under normal circumstances for a few seconds after dropping out of cloak. May only be used on these ships.
Science
Consoles: 2 Engineering, 4 Science, 4 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Science
Universal Console - ECCM System Overload: Active. This console allows the ship discharge a directed pulse of charged particles at a single target, and any intervening enemies. This will apply a temporary debuff to the target's Power Insulators, Subsystem Repair, Starship Sensors, and Inerital Dampeners skills. Modified by the user's Auxiliary power settings (magnitude) and Countermeasure Systems (duration). May only be used on these ships.
I like it. Especially the tactical variant, that's what a true raider should look like. I'd buy a bundle of those!
Just one thing - I'd make the Boff setup completely universal for all variants. I appreciate why you decided to give each ship a dedicated Commander slot, but the all universal setup is like the last unique trademark of the BoP and I would hate it if they lose even that.
the loss of the ensign boff seat and aft weapon is going a bit far
The Fleet Norgh gives up it's 10th console for 2 Lt.Com seats so it has 12 powers.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Or... maybe deployable wings for Bops with certain bonuses bestowed to them a little bit like the vetran ships, but instead of attack/regenerative speed/tunrate maybe? When you fold wings up you get a major speed boost but loose on turnrate. So they could do pretty nasty attack runs.
That still leaves the raptors dead in the water, of course.
using computePolysetVolume to derive the stats for the ships, would do so much for this game.
its a bit x-wing'y, but thats the some of the basics of how you balance small entities against large ones.
no reason why, for instance, if im in a voquv, and a team mate is in a small bop, that i shouldnt be able to completely fix their shields with one tss, due to a multiplier derived from the volume difference.
Hate to be the one to point this out...but try to imagine the pain this would cause via, say a scimtar healing a bug?
plus it would turn the crazily oversized rom ships into not only the best base equipped ships in the game (reffering to the singularity powers) but also the defacto prime healers of sto, removing the last real reason to fly a cruiser beside for fun
I've played with my various BoP flying characters a bit this afternoon, trying to figure out why 1 of them tends to be successful, while the others are not.
The main difference seems to be embassy gear and rep passives. It seems that, on those characters I hardly touched post S7 launch, I have some serious issues getting my BoP's kills, without getting blown out of the high heavens all the time. This in contrast to my most tricked out, min-maxed BoP, which does ok, though not as well as it used too (well, that one and my sci-bop, but that one is basically built to tank and annoy).
With everybody and their mum stacking fleet gear (resA/B shields + embassy and dil mine gear), rep passives, passive placates, +def and the whole shebang, while using loads of anti-cloak stuff to fight the cloaking Romulans, a BoP is just a very easy target, as the BoP's give up defensive ability for their cloaks, while the Romulans do not. I would shoot the BoP too, if I could choose between fighting a flimsy BoP or a fleshy battle cloaking full escort with cruiser-like hull (but 4 or 5 tac consoles). I'm looking at you, Fleet T'Varo, Dhelan and Mogai.
In the current market, the BoP just doesn't pose quite the threat that it used to, unless you really pump in the effort. Makes excelling in a BoP extra satisfying, though, I will admit
The Raptors suffer from a different problem altogether, imo. They are still very decent ships, in the current climate, if you can get the shots lined up. They can take some punishment, dish it out too (sadly lacking a 5-tac variant), but they're a pain in the aft to manouvre, when faced with pretty much any Fed or Romulan escort or the Risian corvette. Which really is a pity, 'cause I would love to fly Raptors more often, if only they were viable for me. For my Raptor-style play I now use the Guramba, which is very similar in stats, but wildly different in experience...
/end rambling
Edit: hm, forgot to include a point to my story. Some way to introduce either some more oomph or some more survivability would be nice.
The Fleet Norgh gives up it's 10th console for 2 Lt.Com seats so it has 12 powers.
Yeah, I noticed that; I actually used that boff seating as the base setup for my proposed set, though with the Commander station preset appropriate to the variant. I tried to conceive of something that was more in balance than most BoPs are, given the current state of the game, without completely negating the balancing factors that offset the battle cloak.
Can't guarantee I got it perfect, but I gave it a shot anyway :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
BoP need a buff badly and so do the raptors. Roms have some serious power creep going on ... and I play them!
BoP should get an extra ensign Boff (but replace 2 universals with fixed) and an extra rear weapon and some hull. Raptors should get an extra tac console. Cruisers are fine now ... but maybe give them an extra bit of power or slightly more turn later.
Feds should get across the board stronger shields (+ .05 or .1 ) ... and Defiant / Galaxy should have its cloak made built in (essentially +1 console).
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You've just described a recipe for homogenization that is not in the best interests of the KDF as a faction, but no doubt would provide great comfort to fed players whining about being ambush-killed by BoPs.
It would also require serious resource investment in changing coding across an entire faction for a very limited positive return and significant opportunity cost.
Simple fixes and changes are more likely to be implemented merely on a resource-investment level-so sweeping changes to entire classifications of ships strikes me as a non-starter, esp. when the given class is more than 30% of a faction's active ship rosters.
Put simply, better solutions that cost less to do are available- adding certain 'in built' abilities to the Bird of Prey class, for instance, has already been done (The B'Rel Retrofit), as has buffs to hull and shield for Fleet versions of existing ships (the Fleet Norgh used to have a base hull of around 16,500).
There are better options than trying to rewrite the entire bird of prey class to make them more like the T'Varo or Defiant. Small boosts to turn, speed, and inertia stats for instance, a small buff to KDF battlecloak damage (the roms get more time, the KDF hits harder-it's different, therefore unique, therefore interesting and makes up for the lack of a 5 console ship that isn't a lardbucket that can't get out of it's own way.)
Oh please ... Devs are going down that path with give away consoles ... Lockboxes and bc on all Rom ships. You just don't see it. Roms are OP especially with all power boosts available in game now.
BoP are vanishing from PvP and already disappeared from PvE. More balance and a boost to Fed and Klinks is sure to make things more interesting.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I leveled in BoPs and Raptors (with an occaisonal Cruiser, back when you could buy ships with EC). I was in a Qin Raptor for awhile and now I'm in a Vo'quv, the next ship I intend to get KDF side will be the Fleet Tor'kaht. I'll use it to replace and improve my Vor'cha R.
I own a Garumba, Hegh'ta, Qin, Vor'cha R, Negh'var, Vo'quv, Mirror Vo'quv (prefer the original) the free Bortasq, and the Risalian Corvette (Unpacked but not flown). Heck I even own the To'duj Fighter which has Battle Cloak and doesn't seem to get any buffs for it. I never used the Garumba in PVP or Missions just ESTF. Until recently the Raptor was my usual ship. I admit the only time I flew the Heg'tha was in organised PVP where I played the role of Bait.
I was unaware that Battle Cloak is now the equivalent of Romulan Battle Cloak.
I'd like to thank you for taking my lack of knowledge on how Battle Cloak works for BoPs as proof I fly a Lockbox/Lobi ship and attempted to use that to humiliate me.
I'll be double checking the Hegh'ta and To'duj right now but.
Edit: Yep Seems Battle Cloak is Romulan Battle Cloak, weird that they decided to make a big deal out of the Romulan version when all Battle Cloaks are the same. I don't remember getting these bonuses but it's been nearly 3 years since I flew the BoP.
Nah, i wasn't trying to humiliate u i was just cranky when i woke up and made that post
As for the Klingon BoP's Battle Cloak compare to Romulan Warbird Battle Cloak issues many people think they're not the same, but in fact is they are. the issues between the battle cloaks are the fact that the Romulan Republic players have have access to superior Boff's with far superior space traits that can make their Romulan Battle Cloak alot better then what any KDF players can do with their Indigenous Boff's and even the slighty inferior Rom Embassy Boff's.
As for the Basic ''Klingon Cloak'' like i gonna say again i would like to see it to have a 40 sec cooldown but with an ability to cloak under combat instead of 20 sec CD but can't cloak under combat.
Again... it will work similar to a ''Battle Cloak'' but have a 20 sec longer CD rate and have +50% defense bonus but have no Speed and Turn Rate Bonus as it is now. i would like to see the Federation Cloak to work the same manner as well to make it fair.
Whats the point adding Skill Points to Stealth if u only gonna use it once in combat???
Cryptic... Here's a Scenario which how ur current Basic Cloak works now... your KDF Battle Cruisers/Raptors or Fed Defiant/Galaxy-X goes out of cloak engages the enemy ship and defeats it shortly afterwards, now waiting to go out of combat to recloak the ship, suddenly 3-4 Romulan ships decloaks and attacks ur ship, knowing that u can't fight number of enemy vessels u retreated using EPtE, APO, EM, Etc. hoping u will get out of combat long enough to cloak back, but in the end they catch up on u and more enemy players arrives to help them and you're dead shortly after... in the other hand the Romulan player decloak kill his/her enemy then recloak less than 10 sec knowing that no one will jump on him/her with their battle cloak with far superior Boff's buffs.
Nah, i wasn't trying to humiliate u i was just cranky when i woke up and made that post
As for the Klingon BoP's Battle Cloak compare to Romulan Warbird Battle Cloak issues many people think they're not the same, but in fact is they are. the issues between the battle cloaks are the fact that the Romulan Republic players have have access to superior Boff's with far superior space traits that can make their Romulan Battle Cloak alot better then what any KDF players can do with their Indigenous Boff's and even the slighty inferior Rom Embassy Boff's.
As for the Basic ''Klingon Cloak'' like i gonna say again i would like to see it to have a 40 sec cooldown but with an ability to cloak under combat instead of 20 sec CD but can't cloak under combat.
Again... it will work similar to a ''Battle Cloak'' but have a 20 sec longer CD rate and have +50% defense bonus but have no Speed and Turn Rate Bonus as it is now. i would like to see the Federation Cloak to work the same manner as well to make it fair.
Whats the point adding Skill Points to Stealth if u only gonna use it once in combat???
Cryptic... Here's a Scenario which how ur current Basic Cloak works now... your KDF Battle Cruisers/Raptors or Fed Defiant/Galaxy-X goes out of cloak engages the enemy ship and defeats it shortly afterwards, now waiting to go out of combat to recloak the ship, suddenly 3-4 Romulan ships decloaks and attacks ur ship, knowing that u can't fight number of enemy vessels u retreated using EPtE, APO, EM, Etc. hoping u will get out of combat long enough to cloak back, but in the end they catch up on u and more enemy players arrives to help them and you're dead shortly after... in the other hand the Romulan player decloak kill his/her enemy then recloak less than 10 sec knowing that no one will jump on him/her with their battle cloak with far superior Boff's buffs.
I'm not sure what you mean by the battlecloaks 'are the same' or w/e. The basic, underlying battlecloaks, unmodified by boff traits, are actually different (at least, according to the wiki, and since the Romulans are still new I have no reason to doubt its accuracy here). . .and the Romulan one is superior.
They both provide the same general types of bonuses, but the Romulan one is superior in that it provides a 25% boost to de-cloak damage as opposed to 15%, boosts flight turn-rate by 11.8 as opposed to 10, and provides 5,105 stealth as opposed to 4,975. The last two are relatively minor improvements, but the damage one is significant. That's a big difference.
The Enhanced Battle Cloaks that the Romulans and KDF use are the same, however. Why did Cryptic decide to make a superior version of the battlecloak for the Romulans, when the Romulans would also be getting these overpowered boff traits?
I'm not sure what you mean by the battlecloaks 'are the same' or w/e. The basic, underlying battlecloaks, unmodified by boff traits, are actually different (at least, according to the wiki, and since the Romulans are still new I have no reason to doubt its accuracy here). . .and the Romulan one is superior.
They both provide the same general types of bonuses, but the Romulan one is superior in that it provides a 25% boost to de-cloak damage as opposed to 15%, boosts flight turn-rate by 11.8 as opposed to 10, and provides 5,105 stealth as opposed to 4,975. The last two are relatively minor improvements, but the damage one is significant. That's a big difference.
The Enhanced Battle Cloaks that the Romulans and KDF use are the same, however. Why did Cryptic decide to make a superior version of the battlecloak for the Romulans, when the Romulans would also be getting these overpowered boff traits?
Actually, I have been wondering if the difference between the Romulan Battle Cloak and the conventional Battle Cloak are actually the result of unintentionally factoring the Romulan captain's species trait. Has anyone tried testing this out using low tier "naked" Romulan and Klingon BoPs with a Romulan captain? By "naked", I mean no gear or boffs, just having the ship equipped and plonked into orbit around the Shipyard.
As far as boff traits... they did apparently do an unmentioned nerf to the Crit Change a patch or so back, though this really doesn't fix the underlying problem; if they fixed it so that multiple boff traits didn't stack, we'd see less in the way of outliers.
By this I mean including but not limited to: Efficient, Infiltrator, Leadership, Operative, Pirate (if they ever get it working in Space), Space Warfare Specialist, and Subterfuge.
Of course, Basic and Superior versions of all of these should be available as well, which is also part of the imbalance with Romulan and Reman boffs. That way, the cool boff traits can still be cool... without stacking into the realm of ridiculous.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I'm not sure what you mean by the battlecloaks 'are the same' or w/e. The basic, underlying battlecloaks, unmodified by boff traits, are actually different (at least, according to the wiki, and since the Romulans are still new I have no reason to doubt its accuracy here). . .and the Romulan one is superior.
They both provide the same general types of bonuses, but the Romulan one is superior in that it provides a 25% boost to de-cloak damage as opposed to 15%, boosts flight turn-rate by 11.8 as opposed to 10, and provides 5,105 stealth as opposed to 4,975. The last two are relatively minor improvements, but the damage one is significant. That's a big difference.
The Enhanced Battle Cloaks that the Romulans and KDF use are the same, however. Why did Cryptic decide to make a superior version of the battlecloak for the Romulans, when the Romulans would also be getting these overpowered boff traits?
Hah, it's like whoever in Cryptic was lead in designing the Romulan Subfaction was given a blank check in design and was allowed to run amok. The ships, the BOFFs, the traits, everything is handed to them with no drawbacks whatsoever.
The fact that Romulans drop in & out of cloak in the thickest of all fighting and not worry about exploding should speak volumes.
I'm not sure what you mean by the battlecloaks 'are the same' or w/e. The basic, underlying battlecloaks, unmodified by boff traits, are actually different (at least, according to the wiki, and since the Romulans are still new I have no reason to doubt its accuracy here). . .and the Romulan one is superior.
They both provide the same general types of bonuses, but the Romulan one is superior in that it provides a 25% boost to de-cloak damage as opposed to 15%, boosts flight turn-rate by 11.8 as opposed to 10, and provides 5,105 stealth as opposed to 4,975. The last two are relatively minor improvements, but the damage one is significant. That's a big difference.
The Enhanced Battle Cloaks that the Romulans and KDF use are the same, however. Why did Cryptic decide to make a superior version of the battlecloak for the Romulans, when the Romulans would also be getting these overpowered boff traits?
i already mention the damage bonus in a another post which i should made it clear in the last post... i was refering to the Defense, Turn Rate and Speed bonuses.
Even without RR Boff's with no Space Traits, the Romulan players will still have a Stealth and Bonus damage out of cloak because of the non-selective passive Romulan Species Trait.
It's not a question of when they have these overpowered boff's. the Romulans been have these overpowered Boff's which many have atleast 2 space triats each... 1 Superior, 1 Basic with either Superior Operative or Superior Inflitrator with additional Subterfuge trait
Look at the Federation and KDF boff's than look at the Romulan ones then u realize how clearly inferior the KDF/Fed boff's space traits are.
Hah, it's like whoever in Cryptic was lead in designing the Romulan Subfaction was given a blank check in design and was allowed to run amok. The ships, the BOFFs, the traits, everything is handed to them with no drawbacks whatsoever.
The fact that Romulans drop in & out of cloak in the thickest of all fighting and not worry about exploding should speak volumes.
Sort of.
Really, not popping all your hull resists just before you cloak is still a good way of exploding if you are taking fire. Romulans can survive cloaking under fire, but certainly not without a little forethought. If you are "in the thickest of all fighting" you are likely dead against reasonable opponents anyway; part of why there were nerf calls for Defense of New Romulus is that the AoE attacks still hit you when cloaked and heavy fire kills you very quickly if you cloak without some form of strategy. The Scimitar shield console is a bit silly, though.
The boff traits were designed prior to LoR for the Embassy bridge officers rather than as part of the "Romulan Subfaction". Part of the imbalance there is the stacking more than the traits themselves, since few are able to afford a full roster of Romulans from the Embassy, while most should be able to afford one with some saving up. Fed players can get a full set of Leadership boffs + captain and get silly bonuses too, compared to what the KDF has access to... though the KDF can usually make better use of Embassy boffs if they can actually afford a set. My Fed is basically immune to subsystem disabling, for example, while it seems to be my Romulan's Achilles' heel in Azure Nebula.
But I already mentioned stacking traits elsewhere... if bridge officer traits didn't stack, those boffs with multiple Space traits wouldn't be quite so OP, now would they?
Also, I'd happily trade the out the Singularity Core and Powers for a Warp Core. It's like getting the choice of:
a) a console that gives a stacking +40 overall subsystem power all the time, or...
b) a console that lets you use Singularity Jump once in awhile... while generating a penalty to your Stealth and then locking out your battle cloak if you do use it.
Not to mention the inferior modifiers Singularity Cores have relative to Warp Cores.
The "no drawbacks whatsoever" may be a bit of a hyperbole. More that players are adapting their play style to their drawbacks.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Nah, i wasn't trying to humiliate u i was just cranky when i woke up and made that post
Fair enough, but seriously I could understand the Bug ship or the new JH ships, even the Adapted Tal Shiar ships.
But what Power hungry fool would want a D'Kora or Galor over even the Vor'cha R let alone the Fleet Tor'kaht. Those ships where made for the Federation not Klingons.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Really? Can you provide any source for this claim?
And even if this were the case is it a justification to make them more powerful in this game?
Well just watch any of the shows!
Unfortunatley Youtube is limited on talks about the Romulans but I did get this.
"It's just a tap on the shoulder, or we wouldn't be here talking about it." and at the end two D'deridex only consider withdrawing when they are faced with the Galaxy and 3 (or more as you can't see off screen) Klingon warships armed and ready already aimed at the D'd's and still they wouldn't survive... Let's not forget the whooping the Scimitar dishes out either.
Also from Memory Alpha
"The Romulan military is a powerful force in the Alpha Quadrant. Despite being defeated by Earth in the Earth-Romulan War of the 2150s, the Romulan Star Empire continued to be a powerful presence, not afraid to tempt Starfleet by entering the Neutral Zone. Romulan forces were a deciding factor in the Dominion War, whose entry in 2374 turned the tide of war in favor of the Allies. (TOS: "Balance of Terror"; DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight")"
Never said this was a justification to make them more powerful in game but then I don't think they're any more powerful than the Federation or Klingon ships, in Ker'rat and the arenas I've not seen anything other than the T'Varo do exceptionally well and that's down to its advanced battle cloak, the same as the B'rel and another KDF BoP (I forget which), which just makes it hard to target initially.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Fair enough, but seriously I could understand the Bug ship or the new JH ships, even the Adapted Tal Shiar ships.
But what Power hungry fool would want a D'Kora or Galor over even the Vor'cha R let alone the Fleet Tor'kaht. Those ships where made for the Federation not Klingons.
The D'Kora is a fantastic ship and from what I've seen of the Galor so is that!
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Comments
Ok, true enough... but darn it I'm tired of having nothing but a Bortasqu' 3-pack available. :P
Besides, even the Feds rarely get any sort of boost to their ships, and the devs like them. Since the usual response is to give out new toys rather than fixing the old, I just figured I'd toss out some thoughts. We've both seen the post count on the What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic? thread... though part of that is a valid discussion of its intended role and whether that actually fits into STO's gameplay, but I digress.
I like it.
Just one thing - I'd make the Boff setup completely universal for all variants. I appreciate why you decided to give each ship a dedicated Commander slot, but the all universal setup is like the last unique trademark of the BoP and I would hate it if they lose even that.
The Fleet Norgh gives up it's 10th console for 2 Lt.Com seats so it has 12 powers.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
That still leaves the raptors dead in the water, of course.
Hate to be the one to point this out...but try to imagine the pain this would cause via, say a scimtar healing a bug?
plus it would turn the crazily oversized rom ships into not only the best base equipped ships in the game (reffering to the singularity powers) but also the defacto prime healers of sto, removing the last real reason to fly a cruiser beside for fun
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The main difference seems to be embassy gear and rep passives. It seems that, on those characters I hardly touched post S7 launch, I have some serious issues getting my BoP's kills, without getting blown out of the high heavens all the time. This in contrast to my most tricked out, min-maxed BoP, which does ok, though not as well as it used too (well, that one and my sci-bop, but that one is basically built to tank and annoy).
With everybody and their mum stacking fleet gear (resA/B shields + embassy and dil mine gear), rep passives, passive placates, +def and the whole shebang, while using loads of anti-cloak stuff to fight the cloaking Romulans, a BoP is just a very easy target, as the BoP's give up defensive ability for their cloaks, while the Romulans do not. I would shoot the BoP too, if I could choose between fighting a flimsy BoP or a fleshy battle cloaking full escort with cruiser-like hull (but 4 or 5 tac consoles). I'm looking at you, Fleet T'Varo, Dhelan and Mogai.
In the current market, the BoP just doesn't pose quite the threat that it used to, unless you really pump in the effort. Makes excelling in a BoP extra satisfying, though, I will admit
The Raptors suffer from a different problem altogether, imo. They are still very decent ships, in the current climate, if you can get the shots lined up. They can take some punishment, dish it out too (sadly lacking a 5-tac variant), but they're a pain in the aft to manouvre, when faced with pretty much any Fed or Romulan escort or the Risian corvette. Which really is a pity, 'cause I would love to fly Raptors more often, if only they were viable for me. For my Raptor-style play I now use the Guramba, which is very similar in stats, but wildly different in experience...
/end rambling
Edit: hm, forgot to include a point to my story. Some way to introduce either some more oomph or some more survivability would be nice.
Yeah, I noticed that; I actually used that boff seating as the base setup for my proposed set, though with the Commander station preset appropriate to the variant. I tried to conceive of something that was more in balance than most BoPs are, given the current state of the game, without completely negating the balancing factors that offset the battle cloak.
Can't guarantee I got it perfect, but I gave it a shot anyway :P
BoP should get an extra ensign Boff (but replace 2 universals with fixed) and an extra rear weapon and some hull. Raptors should get an extra tac console. Cruisers are fine now ... but maybe give them an extra bit of power or slightly more turn later.
Feds should get across the board stronger shields (+ .05 or .1 ) ... and Defiant / Galaxy should have its cloak made built in (essentially +1 console).
- Judge Aaron Satie
Oh please ... Devs are going down that path with give away consoles ... Lockboxes and bc on all Rom ships. You just don't see it. Roms are OP especially with all power boosts available in game now.
BoP are vanishing from PvP and already disappeared from PvE. More balance and a boost to Fed and Klinks is sure to make things more interesting.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Nah, i wasn't trying to humiliate u i was just cranky when i woke up and made that post
As for the Klingon BoP's Battle Cloak compare to Romulan Warbird Battle Cloak issues many people think they're not the same, but in fact is they are. the issues between the battle cloaks are the fact that the Romulan Republic players have have access to superior Boff's with far superior space traits that can make their Romulan Battle Cloak alot better then what any KDF players can do with their Indigenous Boff's and even the slighty inferior Rom Embassy Boff's.
As for the Basic ''Klingon Cloak'' like i gonna say again i would like to see it to have a 40 sec cooldown but with an ability to cloak under combat instead of 20 sec CD but can't cloak under combat.
Again... it will work similar to a ''Battle Cloak'' but have a 20 sec longer CD rate and have +50% defense bonus but have no Speed and Turn Rate Bonus as it is now. i would like to see the Federation Cloak to work the same manner as well to make it fair.
Whats the point adding Skill Points to Stealth if u only gonna use it once in combat???
Cryptic... Here's a Scenario which how ur current Basic Cloak works now... your KDF Battle Cruisers/Raptors or Fed Defiant/Galaxy-X goes out of cloak engages the enemy ship and defeats it shortly afterwards, now waiting to go out of combat to recloak the ship, suddenly 3-4 Romulan ships decloaks and attacks ur ship, knowing that u can't fight number of enemy vessels u retreated using EPtE, APO, EM, Etc. hoping u will get out of combat long enough to cloak back, but in the end they catch up on u and more enemy players arrives to help them and you're dead shortly after... in the other hand the Romulan player decloak kill his/her enemy then recloak less than 10 sec knowing that no one will jump on him/her with their battle cloak with far superior Boff's buffs.
I'm not sure what you mean by the battlecloaks 'are the same' or w/e. The basic, underlying battlecloaks, unmodified by boff traits, are actually different (at least, according to the wiki, and since the Romulans are still new I have no reason to doubt its accuracy here). . .and the Romulan one is superior.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Battle_Cloak
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Romulan_Battle_Cloak
They both provide the same general types of bonuses, but the Romulan one is superior in that it provides a 25% boost to de-cloak damage as opposed to 15%, boosts flight turn-rate by 11.8 as opposed to 10, and provides 5,105 stealth as opposed to 4,975. The last two are relatively minor improvements, but the damage one is significant. That's a big difference.
The Enhanced Battle Cloaks that the Romulans and KDF use are the same, however. Why did Cryptic decide to make a superior version of the battlecloak for the Romulans, when the Romulans would also be getting these overpowered boff traits?
Actually, I have been wondering if the difference between the Romulan Battle Cloak and the conventional Battle Cloak are actually the result of unintentionally factoring the Romulan captain's species trait. Has anyone tried testing this out using low tier "naked" Romulan and Klingon BoPs with a Romulan captain? By "naked", I mean no gear or boffs, just having the ship equipped and plonked into orbit around the Shipyard.
As far as boff traits... they did apparently do an unmentioned nerf to the Crit Change a patch or so back, though this really doesn't fix the underlying problem; if they fixed it so that multiple boff traits didn't stack, we'd see less in the way of outliers.
By this I mean including but not limited to: Efficient, Infiltrator, Leadership, Operative, Pirate (if they ever get it working in Space), Space Warfare Specialist, and Subterfuge.
Of course, Basic and Superior versions of all of these should be available as well, which is also part of the imbalance with Romulan and Reman boffs. That way, the cool boff traits can still be cool... without stacking into the realm of ridiculous.
Hah, it's like whoever in Cryptic was lead in designing the Romulan Subfaction was given a blank check in design and was allowed to run amok. The ships, the BOFFs, the traits, everything is handed to them with no drawbacks whatsoever.
The fact that Romulans drop in & out of cloak in the thickest of all fighting and not worry about exploding should speak volumes.
i already mention the damage bonus in a another post which i should made it clear in the last post... i was refering to the Defense, Turn Rate and Speed bonuses.
Even without RR Boff's with no Space Traits, the Romulan players will still have a Stealth and Bonus damage out of cloak because of the non-selective passive Romulan Species Trait.
It's not a question of when they have these overpowered boff's. the Romulans been have these overpowered Boff's which many have atleast 2 space triats each... 1 Superior, 1 Basic with either Superior Operative or Superior Inflitrator with additional Subterfuge trait
Look at the Federation and KDF boff's than look at the Romulan ones then u realize how clearly inferior the KDF/Fed boff's space traits are.
Sort of.
Really, not popping all your hull resists just before you cloak is still a good way of exploding if you are taking fire. Romulans can survive cloaking under fire, but certainly not without a little forethought. If you are "in the thickest of all fighting" you are likely dead against reasonable opponents anyway; part of why there were nerf calls for Defense of New Romulus is that the AoE attacks still hit you when cloaked and heavy fire kills you very quickly if you cloak without some form of strategy. The Scimitar shield console is a bit silly, though.
The boff traits were designed prior to LoR for the Embassy bridge officers rather than as part of the "Romulan Subfaction". Part of the imbalance there is the stacking more than the traits themselves, since few are able to afford a full roster of Romulans from the Embassy, while most should be able to afford one with some saving up. Fed players can get a full set of Leadership boffs + captain and get silly bonuses too, compared to what the KDF has access to... though the KDF can usually make better use of Embassy boffs if they can actually afford a set. My Fed is basically immune to subsystem disabling, for example, while it seems to be my Romulan's Achilles' heel in Azure Nebula.
But I already mentioned stacking traits elsewhere... if bridge officer traits didn't stack, those boffs with multiple Space traits wouldn't be quite so OP, now would they?
Also, I'd happily trade the out the Singularity Core and Powers for a Warp Core. It's like getting the choice of:
a) a console that gives a stacking +40 overall subsystem power all the time, or...
b) a console that lets you use Singularity Jump once in awhile... while generating a penalty to your Stealth and then locking out your battle cloak if you do use it.
Not to mention the inferior modifiers Singularity Cores have relative to Warp Cores.
The "no drawbacks whatsoever" may be a bit of a hyperbole. More that players are adapting their play style to their drawbacks.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Fair enough, but seriously I could understand the Bug ship or the new JH ships, even the Adapted Tal Shiar ships.
But what Power hungry fool would want a D'Kora or Galor over even the Vor'cha R let alone the Fleet Tor'kaht. Those ships where made for the Federation not Klingons.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Really? Can you provide any source for this claim?
And even if this were the case is it a justification to make them more powerful in this game?
Well just watch any of the shows!
Unfortunatley Youtube is limited on talks about the Romulans but I did get this.
"It's just a tap on the shoulder, or we wouldn't be here talking about it." and at the end two D'deridex only consider withdrawing when they are faced with the Galaxy and 3 (or more as you can't see off screen) Klingon warships armed and ready already aimed at the D'd's and still they wouldn't survive... Let's not forget the whooping the Scimitar dishes out either.
Also from Memory Alpha
"The Romulan military is a powerful force in the Alpha Quadrant. Despite being defeated by Earth in the Earth-Romulan War of the 2150s, the Romulan Star Empire continued to be a powerful presence, not afraid to tempt Starfleet by entering the Neutral Zone. Romulan forces were a deciding factor in the Dominion War, whose entry in 2374 turned the tide of war in favor of the Allies. (TOS: "Balance of Terror"; DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight")"
Never said this was a justification to make them more powerful in game but then I don't think they're any more powerful than the Federation or Klingon ships, in Ker'rat and the arenas I've not seen anything other than the T'Varo do exceptionally well and that's down to its advanced battle cloak, the same as the B'rel and another KDF BoP (I forget which), which just makes it hard to target initially.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
The D'Kora is a fantastic ship and from what I've seen of the Galor so is that!
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan