I've been saying for it for awhile now. But the Galaxy class community is somehow not seeing the light.
For a longtime now the Devs have been creating sets. This is just the theme of the game. Now what I suggested is a Galaxy 2 piece or 3 piece set.
True Galaxy fans have saucer separation and antimatter spread why not create a set bonus that will compensate Galaxy Captains because its the worst cruiser in the game. This should be clear!
Compensation is in order. The Odyssey class is compensated with the Odyssey set. Why can't the Galaxy?
Now I know someone out there is going to bring up the fact that the other factions have access the antimatter spread. Yes I know. What the Devs can do is redesign the antimatter spread console. They can make 2 of them one for general purposes like lockboxes and the other for the Galaxy only.
A 2 piece set or a 3 piece set is the only logical way to fix the Galaxy. The Devs are not going to change the bridge officer layout or the console layout. What we as a Galaxy class community should be crying for is set bonus that will compensate us for using the worst ship in the game.
Alright let's look at this from a different perspective. Not why such changes should be canon, or how people posting here would prefer things. But to one of the standard dev answers.
Anything that came from the licensed product they have to get approval from CBS before they can even try to implement it. That is why there is currently no T5 Constitution and why they will be hesitant to alter things for the Galaxy.
CBS wants to keep their rights tightly controlled, and it is hard to blame them. So how about making the jumping through hoops worth doing for the Devs? Send them a message and either ask to take on some of their paperwork. Or better yet, launch a kickstarter to fund the alterations the fans want?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Alright let's look at this from a different perspective. Not why such changes should be canon, or how people posting here would prefer things. But to one of the standard dev answers.
Anything that came from the licensed product they have to get approval from CBS before they can even try to implement it. That is why there is currently no T5 Constitution and why they will be hesitant to alter things for the Galaxy.
CBS wants to keep their rights tightly controlled, and it is hard to blame them. So how about making the jumping through hoops worth doing for the Devs? Send them a message and either ask to take on some of their paperwork. Or better yet, launch a kickstarter to fund the alterations the fans want?
So, what you're saying is...we should do their job for them (IE Paperwork) and not get paid for it. Or, start a Kickstarter, for something that ONLY the fans of the galaxy class that PLAY STO in the first place would even consider funding. THEN ontop of that, they have to PAY for the new ship when it arrives....really? Yea, I think I'll pass on all of the above.
There have been hundreds of suggestions for the galaxy but to be quite blunt, it'll get here when it gets here and if you don't pvp, you can have a blast in the existing galaxy class, very easily.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
So, what you're saying is...we should do their job for them (IE Paperwork) and not get paid for it. Or, start a Kickstarter, for something that ONLY the fans of the galaxy class that PLAY STO in the first place would even consider funding. THEN ontop of that, they have to PAY for the new ship when it arrives....really? Yea, I think I'll pass on all of the above.
There have been hundreds of suggestions for the galaxy but to be quite blunt, it'll get here when it gets here and if you don't pvp, you can have a blast in the existing galaxy class, very easily.
Ahh, you are in the something for nothing group. The devs won't really consider one of these threads helpful unless it offers a result they can use. Oddly Star Trek fans used to get putting minor amounts of work into things. Wasn't a letter writing campaign that got a shuttle named Enterprise? If you believe strongly in it, try. If not then just roll over and hope someone else does.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Star Trek is neither Star Wars nor BattleStar Galactica.
So drop the whole idea of fighters.
Fighters craft in the Star Trek universe are borderline obsolete.
The weaponry of the larger ships combined with the computer assisted targeting completely removes them from the game.
DW tries hard to put them in there in its moment of Star Wars glory, and fails.
If craft that size were able to actually carry comparable firepower then the vaunted Sovereign class would have never been built as it would have been a complete waste of resources.
The Negh'Var? Haha! Would have been the most laughable waste of resources ever conceived by the Klingon Empire. As would have been the Scimitar, the D'Deridex, the Valdore. That list goes on and on and on.
There would virtually be no point in even creating explorer classifications as you could just up the size of your fighter craft to roughly 200-250 meters and have a massively overpowered fighter craft capable of immense speeds, defense and minimal exploration.
But due to their smaller size you could simply have multiple ships in an "exploration fleet"
of specific abilities and actually save on resources and have a faster more adaptive and powerful fleet than ever before!
Yet we don't see this happen. Ever.
The weapons carried by the Cruiser in Star Fleet pack enough punch to strip planets of their atmosphere. To Core a planet within minutes or hours. Enough to wipe out entire continents or the entire population of a planet within minutes if not seconds.
They are highly accurate, remember the battle computer episodes lol.
Even without the battle computers we see the Ent D take out several smaller craft as if they are worthless.
We see a Borg Cube do the same thing to smaller interceptor like craft on its way to Earth.
The Defiant is even a small and weak vessel in direct combat with a larger tech level ship.
Yes it packs a serious punch and has defenses that make other ship commanders drool in envy. But she is still only so large and is not that capable of a ship when it comes right down to it. She performed best against the Bug ships of the Dominion and that was really about it.
Fighters were a terrible idea to introduce fighters in Nemesis and it was a terrible idea to try and show shuttles as a viable combat option period.(Which we saw that they were terrible outside of packing an incredibly finite supply of torpedoes)
And it was nothing more than a broad base money grab idea by Cryptic and PWE when they introduced carriers into STO.
Enough with the stupid and poorly thought out carrier idea.
Even in todays world it is only a matter of time, and tech, before tanks and other ground based equipment will ground their generation of military aircraft.
thing is, we dont actually know the terms of what crypitc can and cant change to start making demands on their behalf.
rights tightly controlled or not, this is an mmo, and is subject to change in order to keep it functioning as a game.
and really, if they cared nearly as much as you are implying for your own reasons, then there would be far, FAR fewer ships spamming dhc dakka around, and there would never be tholian or dominion ships parked over esd or qonos.
Good point, so I submitted a ticket to ask them.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Now I know someone out there is going to bring up the fact that the other factions have access the antimatter spread. Yes I know. What the Devs can do is redesign the antimatter spread console. They can make 2 of them one for general purposes like lockboxes and the other for the Galaxy only.
A 2 piece set or a 3 piece set is the only logical way to fix the Galaxy. The Devs are not going to change the bridge officer layout or the console layout. What we as a Galaxy class community should be crying for is set bonus that will compensate us for using the worst ship in the game.
Good Idea, but they don't need to make 2 versions of the console. Look at the Jem'Hadar set it gets a bonus ability on certain ships (JH ships of course) and not on others. Surely it would be easier to convert the consoles into a set. And since only the Galaxy can slot the Saucer Seperation the 2P bonus wouldn't work on any other ship anyway.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
1. Why not post those ideas so I can put them in the Op of the thread? That way every idea is bold and easily seen?
2. I disagree the Fleet Galaxy I fly now is set up very well and has been working great, most of all since the new advance fleet warp cores and advanced neutronium armor with the [turn] modifier found in fleet dil. mines. Also noticed more dps when in saucer sep. Please also note I can keep both my weapons and shields power levels in the 100's :rolleyes:
To be frankly it's your thread, why don't you collect all the ideas from the real Galaxy thread yourself in your thread, why should i do that?
I wish i would get 1 euro for every time i write this. COMPARED to all other crusiers (even Starfleet cruisers) the Galaxy class just got the short end of the stick.
Cryptic intentionally made it the eningeering heaviest ship in the game, knowing that Engineering will have the most passive (and boring) BOFF powers of all career branches.
And if that's not enough they gave that ship 3 science and only 2 tactical console slots (?), althrough it only got a Lt. Science BOFF slot.
All other ships can either tank better or be more offensive, because having 3 (!) ensign Engineering slots doesn't make sense since the CD of most Engineering ensign powers interfere with each other. If that's not enough, being so engineering heavy makes that ship extremely passive, even science ships have more means to become active in combat.
Having the least offensive potential of all cruisers in the game you can just hope to outheal your enemy.(something even other ships can do better, if they have more Science BOFF slots.)
So they have a couple of options to solve this problem:
Either they change Engineering powers to make them not interfere with each other.
They could also change some engineering powers to allow engineering heavy ships to become more active. (which wouldn't solve the 3 ensign problem of the galaxy class, but it would them a bit more active IMO)
Or they could give the galaxy class some unique inherent ability that makes that ship
1. more unique and...
2. more true to how it was (supposed to be) in the show.
Another opotion would be to (slightly change) its BOFF/Console layout by making her ensign Engineering into a Lt. universal. (or something else)
Here's my sollution to the Galaxy Class in STO:
Since the devs will never ever change a already existing ship, i suggest a special console to be in the next Lockbox. (only useable with the Regent or Fleet Regent Class)
Once installed the ship gets removed the one console slot, the console was installed and the appearance gets permanently changed to the galaxy Class.
All availlable Galaxy Class ship parts (like monarch or Venture class for example) of the players account get unlocked too, of course.
So Cryptric could even sell some more Regent Class ships.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I like this idea. I'd love to have that 10th console slot, but I'd be willing to make that sacrifice.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Star Trek is neither Star Wars nor BattleStar Galactica.
So drop the whole idea of fighters.
Fighters craft in the Star Trek universe are borderline obsolete.
The weaponry of the larger ships combined with the computer assisted targeting completely removes them from the game.
DW tries hard to put them in there in its moment of Star Wars glory, and fails.
If craft that size were able to actually carry comparable firepower then the vaunted Sovereign class would have never been built as it would have been a complete waste of resources.
The Negh'Var? Haha! Would have been the most laughable waste of resources ever conceived by the Klingon Empire. As would have been the Scimitar, the D'Deridex, the Valdore. That list goes on and on and on.
There would virtually be no point in even creating explorer classifications as you could just up the size of your fighter craft to roughly 200-250 meters and have a massively overpowered fighter craft capable of immense speeds, defense and minimal exploration.
But due to their smaller size you could simply have multiple ships in an "exploration fleet"
of specific abilities and actually save on resources and have a faster more adaptive and powerful fleet than ever before!
Yet we don't see this happen. Ever.
The weapons carried by the Cruiser in Star Fleet pack enough punch to strip planets of their atmosphere. To Core a planet within minutes or hours. Enough to wipe out entire continents or the entire population of a planet within minutes if not seconds.
They are highly accurate, remember the battle computer episodes lol.
Even without the battle computers we see the Ent D take out several smaller craft as if they are worthless.
We see a Borg Cube do the same thing to smaller interceptor like craft on its way to Earth.
The Defiant is even a small and weak vessel in direct combat with a larger tech level ship.
Yes it packs a serious punch and has defenses that make other ship commanders drool in envy. But she is still only so large and is not that capable of a ship when it comes right down to it. She performed best against the Bug ships of the Dominion and that was really about it.
Fighters were a terrible idea to introduce fighters in Nemesis and it was a terrible idea to try and show shuttles as a viable combat option period.(Which we saw that they were terrible outside of packing an incredibly finite supply of torpedoes)
And it was nothing more than a broad base money grab idea by Cryptic and PWE when they introduced carriers into STO.
Enough with the stupid and poorly thought out carrier idea.
Even in todays world it is only a matter of time, and tech, before tanks and other ground based equipment will ground their generation of military aircraft.
Not sure where you are getting you military info from but it is wrong. I was in the Navy for 11 years and the first 7 was onboard an aircraft carrier. We had a saying that is being proven true by current military focus. He who controls the air, controls the ground. Air power is where it is at.
Now as to you views on canon...fighters were in an episode of Star Trek and a movie...that makes them canon. Generations already showed us what can happen when a small ship can get past a big ship's shields with a few torps. There were fighters in DS9 and they proved to be effective. Are we gonna start throwing out canon that we disagree with?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not sure where you are getting you military info from but it is wrong. I was in the Navy for 11 years and the first 7 was onboard an aircraft carrier. We had a saying that is being proven true by current military focus. He who controls the air, controls the ground. Air power is where it is at.
Now as to you views on canon...fighters were in an episode of Star Trek and a movie...that makes them canon. Generations already showed us what can happen when a small ship can get past a big ship's shields with a few torps. There were fighters in DS9 and they proved to be effective. Are we gonna start throwing out canon that we disagree with?
Your experiences don't apply to Space.
SPACE carriers use the exact same medium as SPACE fighters.
There is not superior medium like Air to control. In Star Trek weapon Systems are disproportionate more powerful than todays and ships are shielded by very strong shield systems, something that doesn't exist today.
A small Space fighter just cannot carry weapons and power systems (to operate those Weapons) heavy enough to even scratch the surface of a Starship shield.
On the other hand a Starships Weapons systems are far more accurate and by far stronger than todays, so the starship can just pop one Fighter after another.
So a big Star Trek Starship can use it's Strong weaponery without being in danger at all.
Todays military tactics just don't apply to Star Trek space combat, the fighter/target strenght relation is completely different.
One of the canon proof you tried to bring up was one ineffeffective Kazon "carrier", that didn't really posed a threat by fighter craft rather then being a battleship. The second one was the Scimitar which didn't use the fightercraft even in the heaviest battle.
So let's pretend here we would discuss this without thinking whats "cool", so i think those fighter ships where used only for atmospheric fight or to attack other fighter ships.
Other that that my only explaination is, that we saw fighter craft on board the scimitar so the producers could make the Picard+Data fly though corridor scene, nothing else.
Something personal to the Carrier fans:
Please explain to me why everyone is so crazy about Carrier ships in STO?
What's so great about it and why do you think Carriers should be part of star trek in the first place? How do you come to such a conclusion? I really try to understand...
Personally i never liked small jetfighter like spaceships, in the 90s i hated that there where only Wing Commander like games and nothing where i could fly something big.
Now STO came out and what do we get?
Escorts, Carriers and Fighters... :mad:
I'm not saying Carriers + fighters don't belong to Star Trek this has already been said a hundred times now (and i full heartly agree).
There are already so many Games and Sci fi universes filled with such ships, why does Star Trek also have to be a Carrier heavy Sci fi universe?
And please spare me with "...in reality" Stuff. Let's be honest, you guys somehow find Carriers/Fighters "cool" which is ok IMO, but Star Trek is just the wrong game for you.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Your experiences don't apply to Space.
SPACE carriers use the exact same medium as SPACE fighters.
I used my experience as the basis that his idea that ground force weaponry will easily destroy current military aircraft.
There is not superior medium like Air to control. In Star Trek weapon Systems are disproportionate more powerful than todays and ships are shielded by very strong shield systems, something that doesn't exist today.
A small Space fighter just cannot carry weapons and power systems (to operate those Weapons) heavy enough to even scratch the surface of a Starship shield.
On the other hand a Starships Weapons systems are far more accurate and by far stronger than todays, so the starship can just pop one Fighter after another.
So a big Star Trek Starship can use it's Strong weaponery without being in danger at all.
Todays military tactics just don't apply to Star Trek space combat, the fighter/target strenght relation is completely different.
One of the canon proof you tried to bring up was one ineffeffective Kazon "carrier", that didn't really posed a threat by fighter craft rather then being a battleship. The second one was the Scimitar which didn't use the fightercraft even in the heaviest battle.
So let's pretend here we would discuss this without thinking whats "cool", so i think those fighter ships where used only for atmospheric fight or to attack other fighter ships.
Other that that my only explaination is, that we saw fighter craft on board the scimitar so the producers could make the Picard+Data fly though corridor scene, nothing else.
Something personal to the Carrier fans:
Please explain to me why everyone is so crazy about Carrier ships in STO?
What's so great about it and why do you think Carriers should be part of star trek in the first place? How do you come to such a conclusion? I really try to understand...
Personally i never liked small jetfighter like spaceships, in the 90s i hated that there where only Wing Commander like games and nothing where i could fly something big.
Now STO came out and what do we get?
Escorts, Carriers and Fighters... :mad:
I'm not saying Carriers + fighters don't belong to Star Trek this has already been said a hundred times now (and i full heartly agree).
There are already so many Games and Sci fi universes filled with such ships, why does Star Trek also have to be a Carrier heavy Sci fi universe?
And please spare me with "...in reality" Stuff. Let's be honest, you guys somehow find Carriers/Fighters "cool" which is ok IMO, but Star Trek is just the wrong game for you.
They are part of canon...shouldnt everything a part of canon be in this game?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They are part of canon...shouldnt everything a part of canon be in this game?
So are Cats and Spock with his brain being removed, whats your point?
Even so, having Carriers and Space fighters everywhere is in no relation to their actual canon appearance.
You cannot expect a mass of carriers dominating Star Trek just because there where only TWO half carriers in the whole history of Star Trek. That would be rediculus.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Your experiences don't apply to Space.
SPACE carriers use the exact same medium as SPACE fighters.
There is not superior medium like Air to control. In Star Trek weapon Systems are disproportionate more powerful than todays and ships are shielded by very strong shield systems, something that doesn't exist today.
A small Space fighter just cannot carry weapons and power systems (to operate those Weapons) heavy enough to even scratch the surface of a Starship shield.
On the other hand a Starships Weapons systems are far more accurate and by far stronger than todays, so the starship can just pop one Fighter after another.
So a big Star Trek Starship can use it's Strong weaponery without being in danger at all.
Todays military tactics just don't apply to Star Trek space combat, the fighter/target strenght relation is completely different.
One of the canon proof you tried to bring up was one ineffeffective Kazon "carrier", that didn't really posed a threat by fighter craft rather then being a battleship. The second one was the Scimitar which didn't use the fightercraft even in the heaviest battle.
So let's pretend here we would discuss this without thinking whats "cool", so i think those fighter ships where used only for atmospheric fight or to attack other fighter ships.
Other that that my only explaination is, that we saw fighter craft on board the scimitar so the producers could make the Picard+Data fly though corridor scene, nothing else.
Something personal to the Carrier fans:
Please explain to me why everyone is so crazy about Carrier ships in STO?
What's so great about it and why do you think Carriers should be part of star trek in the first place? How do you come to such a conclusion? I really try to understand...
Personally i never liked small jetfighter like spaceships, in the 90s i hated that there where only Wing Commander like games and nothing where i could fly something big.
Now STO came out and what do we get?
Escorts, Carriers and Fighters... :mad:
I'm not saying Carriers + fighters don't belong to Star Trek this has already been said a hundred times now (and i full heartly agree).
There are already so many Games and Sci fi universes filled with such ships, why does Star Trek also have to be a Carrier heavy Sci fi universe?
And please spare me with "...in reality" Stuff. Let's be honest, you guys somehow find Carriers/Fighters "cool" which is ok IMO, but Star Trek is just the wrong game for you.
I am going to attempt an answer here so be patient as I ramble trying to match points.
Canon has fighter like craft in used in DS9. Runabouts are used to harass Jemhadar ships. Maquis raiders are not much bigger than a runabout. Bajorans had fighters. Remember fold your knees to fit?
Usefulness in the medium: Large ships have alot of mass and thus inetria to overcome. So a small craft can accelerate/decelerate and alter its course easier than a larger ship.
One on one a fighter versus the Galaxy is a smoked fighter. Same should be said for a bird of prey. They are made because you can field alot of them and their power is additive.
This may not seem a weapon comparison but hear it out please. Look at a ball field with lights. They use a bank of small lights as opposed to one big light. Because they can add effectiveness and the loss of one is not substantial. Same could be said about phasers and shields.
As to accuracy, how many times do we see ships miss? And the smaller and more maneuverable the vessel was the more likely it was to be missed?
Answer is alot. Avoidance is a great defense, especially if you are squishy.
So a space fighter is potentially useful.
And is shown to be atleast minimally canon.
Okay so fighters and small shuttles can work. Now why use them in game. .
First carrier I got was a vo'quv. Because I thought it was a cruiser.
I was horrified at its turn rate and the shields were pathetic. Then I saw my fighters polishing off ships and obstacles outside my weapon range. :eek:
Fed side I did not buy any carrier till I was trying for a good science ship. Somethng I could use all my science powers and do crowd control/offense with. I got the Dreadnaught. And did not do well. Got the Oddy three pack and even on the 'science' version was not very sciencey. It seemed they were only releasing big cruiser types and escorts. I wanted Science love. They gave me the Vesta. I flew it and felt like I was trying to perform in a ship made of tissue paper.
So I got an Atrox. Slow and ponderous, but has a durable hull, good weapon space. And I can use my science Boff powers to great ability. Throw in the fighters adding extra damage, sometimes over the 'horizon'*. And you have the cherry on top of a sundae.
Carriers in game are a insert class of vessel and add a free extra trick to them.
That is why I said if you want to balance a carrier more honestly, make hangar spaces use weapon slots. That way it is no longer a free trick included in a ship, but a choice. Five weapons or some mix of fighters and weapons.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So are Cats and Spock with his brain being removed, whats your point?
Even so, having Carriers and Space fighters everywhere is in no relation to their actual canon appearance.
You cannot expect a mass of carriers dominating Star Trek just because there where only TWO half carriers in the whole history of Star Trek. That would be rediculus.
You had to bring up the cats. Where is the plain house cat pet? Or beagle? They were in more episodes than the Horta. And you get that as a pet. And it is a sentient species!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I am going to attempt an answer here so be patient as I ramble trying to match points.
...
Carriers in game are a insert class of vessel and add a free extra trick to them.
That is why I said if you want to balance a carrier more honestly, make hangar spaces use weapon slots. That way it is no longer a free trick included in a ship, but a choice. Five weapons or some mix of fighters and weapons.
So you would accept 75% casualties in order to archieve something which could be done with 2 Cruisers (which have a much better chanche of survival AND are much more versatile) just as well?
Avoidance only works in STO good, in "real" Trek it doesn't matter much how fast a ship is, what you where talking about was plot armor/dexterity of the pilot.
STO favours smaller ships much more than it would be in a "real" star trek game (mostly because the devs wanted their beloved Escorts to rule the Game), so maybe Carriers work in STO, but that doesn't mean they belong to Star Trek in the first place.
I'm sorry you couldn't find any good ship you liked, but same is for me, STO is Escorts online.
I would hate it to become Escort+Carriers online.
You said it yourself you tried Cruisers, i think most people did. I think it's Cryptics fault why escorts and Carriers are so popular. Cruiser suck in STO, they should be the Kings but let's be honest, they are utter TRIBBLE.
Instead of introducing even more Carriers, Cryptic should finally make STO a real Star Trek game and give Cruisers a huge boost.
To be honest i am tired of discussing all the time about Escorts, Space fighters or Carriers and in general stuff that doesn't belong to Star Trek. Cryptic will release more Carriers, because they sell and Cryptic doesn't care if it's Star trek or not.
Whats next Jedi? Sith? Ground vehicles like tanks? Lightsabers? R2D2, the Millenium Falcon (hey they're at least canon) .
Why is adding Carriers and Space fighters ok, but making a Galaxy Class that doesn't suck a huge problem?
If we're throwing canon out of the window and make our own Star Trek why can't other people (besides Escort jockeys and Carrier admirals) have the ships they want?
I just want a STO that is at least a bit more true to Star Trek and i hate the devs not doing their homework.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Complaining about every ship having fighter pets and they shouldnt is already a moot point since doing 1 "The Vault" mission gives you scorpion fighters that can be used on any ship and I have them on all of mine except my Vo'quv which is my only carrier and i rarely use it.
Each ship can be given a single pet slot to make use of the hanger they all have and ships with multiple hangers could have as many as they have hangers. Now thsoe pets should NOT be the same as the carrier pets but like the scorpions. multiple versions for each faction but each version a 1 trick pony with a single weapon. Add in woker bees for repairs instead of a small fighter for more variety. the Scorpion fighters are considered rather useless but they do add some minor damage and they do draw fire away. This would not make every ship a carrier but make use of every ships hanger.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Not sure where you are getting you military info from but it is wrong. I was in the Navy for 11 years and the first 7 was onboard an aircraft carrier. We had a saying that is being proven true by current military focus. He who controls the air, controls the ground. Air power is where it is at.
Now as to you views on canon...fighters were in an episode of Star Trek and a movie...that makes them canon. Generations already showed us what can happen when a small ship can get past a big ship's shields with a few torps. There were fighters in DS9 and they proved to be effective. Are we gonna start throwing out canon that we disagree with?
Correct.
What I am saying is that as tech advances ground will gain traction against air.
Its not impossible. You already have ground to air systems that can track and fire upon aircraft of any kind. Once you see ground targets being able to reliably and consistently strike an aircraft, you will see a shift towards ground development again.
There are no fighters being fielded by any of the major powers in Star Trek.
In DS9 we see retrofitted courier vessels. They are not launched or bound to a "carrier" or capital ship for anything.
Some ask how these ships got there then.
Simple really. Warp Fields can be expanded to include another vessel.
You could technically have had any ship with a large enough surplus of available power generate a larger warp field that would allow smaller and slower craft to travel with the larger ship at a much greater speed than what they themselves are capable of traveling.
Its in the shows.
In Generations you have a BoP. A flying Klingon weapons platform slip several shots both disruptors and photons past an incompetent First Officers shields causing a breach in the warpcore to destroy the ship.
The Torpedo fired by any vessel larger than a shuttle craft in Star Trek is going to be a much different torpedo. The Galaxy class for example had a larger more powerful torpedo variant than the Intrepid class did. And seeing as a torpedo on even a Constitution sized vessel is anywhere from 2 to 3 meters in length and your average runabout is maybe 13-25 meters?(couldn't find actual number) And are stated to be installed with micro torpedo launchers.
So yes they can launch a torpedo.
But how effective that torpedo would be is... not readily available nor likely to be a favorable comparison.
And I still can't figure out what the Scorpion's cause for existing is.
May just have been to show scale from the ramming scene, or provide an escape route for Data and Picard.
Whatever the reason, we never see them do anything.
... Actually... I wonder if, seeing as the Remens were out to go a conquering, if they weren't to serve in a planetary role vs a planets populace, or striking against smaller less shielded targets that would allow the Scimitar to continue unabated or people knowing what they were looking for.
Distraction and harass or planetary targets. Hmm
I already said this in the other galaxy thread.. but i might as well say it here.
before i do though, YES in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise, the galaxy was a carrier. so it could be possible. however, i personally do not think it should be, nor do i think it will fix the galaxy.
now for my two cents
the galaxy has always been one of my favorite ships. it is the ship i grew up to when my dad introduced me to star trek. yet the way it is in the game just does not do it justice
The galaxy was one of the most versitile ships star fleet ever made (the most in cannon), yet we are given a ship with barely ANY tac or science AT ALL.
this was supposed to be a ship, of not only exploration (as some people believe), but it was also "the muscle". as shown by the enterprise being brought to the romulan neutral zone to patrol and keep the large D'Deridex out of federation space. NO it should not become a warship like cruiser like the regent. it should be the versitile ship it is supposed to be, ready to take on any mission.
so here are a couple things that could be done.
1. eng boff skills should be more versitile. if you ain't going to change the boff setup, at least let it able to do what it is supposed to do with what it has got.
or 2. give it a good boff set up for what it was supposed to do. now there is two was to do this, one i know more people would like, and another that i personally would be fine with.
give it a three set. whats wrong with it having three different versions? you already got a engineering verion with the saucer seperation, why not give a tac with a specail beam array/console? and a science with some sort of deflector dish thing?
now the other way.
this one i think might be a bit easier. for the next lock box, how about a mirror universe galaxy? it will be tier 5 of course, but with a boff set up that does it justice
something along the lines of:
2(or three)tac 4 eng 1 eng 3(or two)science and a 2 uni? (yes this is just the nebula,but with the science and engeering boff slots switched.. because besided the lack of tac consoles is at least closer to what the nebula/galaxy should be then the galaxy itself.)
anyways, that is just how i feel, and personally i think making a mirror universe galaxy might be the right way to go! it is simpler, it will give people (at least me) what they want/give people a more cannon like galaxy. and you will still make money off of it
I already said this in the other galaxy thread.. but i might as well say it here.
before i do though, YES in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise, the galaxy was a carrier. so it could be possible. however, i personally do not think it should be, nor do i think it will fix the galaxy.
WHAT?!?
How do you come to that conclusion?
WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH CARRIERS SUDDENLY?
Was there an alien invasion which washed everyones brain, i didn't notice?
Whats going on people, talk to me, please!
Btw. the Galaxy Class was very much a Battleship. Even the Crew itself stated it at one point.
It's the biggest and most powerful Muscle Starfleet had even with the introduction of the sovereign, which was more like a racing car compared to the Galaxy class.
But the Galaxy WAS NEVER the flying brick with no teeth how Cryptic made it.
Read some of Dontdrunk postings for more info.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH CARRIERS SUDDENLY?
Was there an alien invasion which washed everyones brain, i didn't notice?
Whats going on people, talk to me, please!
in the alternate universe in the episode of TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise" (the episode with the ambassador for clarity). there was a war with the klingons, so the enterprise was refited to be a carrier.
it is mention breifly for in the episode. NOTE: this was in the alternate universe that happened because the enterprise-c got "shifted" to the future
i myself am not obsessed with carriers and personally do not use them. however i am not against people who do
in the alternate universe in the episode of TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise" (the episode with the ambassador for clarity). there was a war with the klingons, so the enterprise was refited to be a carrier.
it is mention breifly for in the episode
i myself am not obsessed with carriers and personally do not use them. however i am not against people who do
I know that episode very well, tell me the time index please.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I know that episode very well, tell me the time index please.
i can't remember exactly, but it was around when they where talking about the war and the ship i believe.
i will watch that episode later today just to check and make sure, because i could be wrong of course
i can't remember exactly, but it was around when they where talking about the war and the ship i believe.
i will watch that episode later today just to check and make sure, because i could be wrong of course
I am afraid you must be confusing something here.
At one point (around 21 min) Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleships shields are almost double as strong as the Ambassador Enterprise -Cs shields.
Additionally at one point Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleship was the first Galaxy Class ship (in the prime univers it was number 3) with a crew of 2000 people (instead of 1000 including families).
I am also sure that the ship got stronger weapons and it's crew much more battle hardend. (pure speculation but very likely.)
THAT'S the ship my proposed Galaxy Class Battleship is supposed to be. A mirror ship, similar to the previous Mirror ships already in the Game and NOT a carrier.
Of course it wouldn't be as strong as TV ship but still way more offensive and player friendly than the lame bucket they made the Galaxy class.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I am afraid you must be confusing something here.
At one point (around 21 min) Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleships shields are almost double as strong as the Ambassador Enterprise -Cs shields.
Additionally at one point Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleship was the first Galaxy Class ship (in the prime univers it was number 3) with a crew of 2000 people (instead of 1000 including families).
I am also sure that the ship got stronger weapons and it's crew much more battle hardend. (pure speculation but very likely.)
THAT'S the ship my proposed Galaxy Class Battleship is supposed to be. A mirror ship, similar to the previous Mirror ships already in the Game and NOT a carrier.
Of course it wouldn't be as strong as TV ship but still way more offensive and player friendly than the lame bucket they made the Galaxy class.
no, im talking about a part when picard was talking or something.. you may be right though. i will still check it out
nice... but... the regent boff layout... it is just so... gah. especailly for a ship like the galaxy. i personally would rather just use the regent then a galaxy with that boff set up, because it (just like the galaxy's current boff set up) just doesn't feel right for what it is (though the boff is perfect for the regent/sovi)
it needs something more like the fleet d'deridex set up to be right (not exactly that though).
no, im talking about a part when picard was talking or something.. you may be right though. i will still check it out
nice... but... the regent boff layout... it is just so... gah. especailly for a ship like the galaxy. i personally would rather just use the regent then a galaxy with that boff set up, because it (just like the galaxy's current boff set up) just doesn't feel right for what it is (though the boff is perfect for the regent/sovi)
it needs something more like the fleet d'deridex set up to be right (not exactly that though).
can't please everyone i guess XD
True if i had to create a Galaxy Class for STO from Scratch i would make her different than the Regent, of course.
But i think it's easier to convince the devs to make a Galaxy/Regent mirror ship than creating a completely new one. (let's not forget the involved labor when creating a new ship.)
I mean it's still better than that lame bucket we have now in STO.
The other Option i could imagine would have been the BOFF/Console layout of the Odyssey, but i think that would be more complicated and more people would oppose to it for various reasons, because the Odyssey is more popular than the regent.
EDIT:
Personally i wouldn't want a (Fleet) D'deridex BOFF/Console layout for a mirror Galaxy Class just a CMDR Engineering + a universal (enginnering) Ensign isn't how i am imagine a Galaxy Class.
I'd rather have a Lt.Cmdr. Cmdr.
Lt. Lt.Cmdr.
But that would be a bit OP, i suppose.
On the other hand i like the 3, 4, 3 Console Layout.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
But i think it's easier to convince the devs to make a Galaxy/Regent mirror ship than creating a completely new one. (let's not forget the involved labor when creating a new ship.)
I mean it's still better than that lame bucket we have now in STO.
EDIT:
Personally i wouldn't want a (Fleet) D'deridex BOFF/Console layout for a mirror Galaxy Class just a CMDR Engineering + a universal (enginnering) Ensign isn't how i am imagine a Galaxy Class.
I'd rather have a Lt.Cmdr. Cmdr.
Lt. Lt.Cmdr.
But that would be a bit OP, i suppose.
On the other hand i like the 3, 4, 3 Console Layout.
very true.. i do see your point. personally i still do not feel like it is right, but i would rather pay for that then what the galaxy is now. maybe the ambassador boff set up is more fitting? (but i already got the fleet ambassador just because the galaxy wasn't right.. so i don't personally want two of those XD)
well that was just an example of a more "balanced" boff layout.
personally i would like something more like Lt. Cmdr. Lt.Cmdr.
Uni Lt. and Ensign
though the science and tac could be switched
similar to the Odyssey, but not quite
@ cents, One: The Maquis essentually used fighter craft and almost became a sovereign power so fighter type ships have a use.
2: The Alternate Enterprise was purely combat orient so she could have been a carrier. out of all cannon ships the Galaxy and the Sovereign have the hanger space for a squadron of fighters. in prime universe they mainly held shuttle craft but the space is their to hold fighter craft instead.
Correct.
What I am saying is that as tech advances ground will gain traction against air.
Its not impossible. You already have ground to air systems that can track and fire upon aircraft of any kind. Once you see ground targets being able to reliably and consistently strike an aircraft, you will see a shift towards ground development again.
But that's not how military technology works. As tech advances on the ground/ tech advances in the air....which is why we know have stealth aircraft, unmanned drones and aircraft that can baffle/jam enemy radar.
However more to the point fighter craft are now part of the canon. Im't not a carrier jockey. I tend to lean towards the cruisers. If we want this game to be close to canon that means we have to accept all of it...the good and the bad.
If they implement the holodeck and every month someone programs Professor Moriarty and he becomes sentient and tries to destroy the ship...well I can't complain. It's part of canon.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
For a longtime now the Devs have been creating sets. This is just the theme of the game. Now what I suggested is a Galaxy 2 piece or 3 piece set.
True Galaxy fans have saucer separation and antimatter spread why not create a set bonus that will compensate Galaxy Captains because its the worst cruiser in the game. This should be clear!
Compensation is in order. The Odyssey class is compensated with the Odyssey set. Why can't the Galaxy?
Now I know someone out there is going to bring up the fact that the other factions have access the antimatter spread. Yes I know. What the Devs can do is redesign the antimatter spread console. They can make 2 of them one for general purposes like lockboxes and the other for the Galaxy only.
A 2 piece set or a 3 piece set is the only logical way to fix the Galaxy. The Devs are not going to change the bridge officer layout or the console layout. What we as a Galaxy class community should be crying for is set bonus that will compensate us for using the worst ship in the game.
Anything that came from the licensed product they have to get approval from CBS before they can even try to implement it. That is why there is currently no T5 Constitution and why they will be hesitant to alter things for the Galaxy.
CBS wants to keep their rights tightly controlled, and it is hard to blame them. So how about making the jumping through hoops worth doing for the Devs? Send them a message and either ask to take on some of their paperwork. Or better yet, launch a kickstarter to fund the alterations the fans want?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So, what you're saying is...we should do their job for them (IE Paperwork) and not get paid for it. Or, start a Kickstarter, for something that ONLY the fans of the galaxy class that PLAY STO in the first place would even consider funding. THEN ontop of that, they have to PAY for the new ship when it arrives....really? Yea, I think I'll pass on all of the above.
There have been hundreds of suggestions for the galaxy but to be quite blunt, it'll get here when it gets here and if you don't pvp, you can have a blast in the existing galaxy class, very easily.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Ahh, you are in the something for nothing group. The devs won't really consider one of these threads helpful unless it offers a result they can use. Oddly Star Trek fans used to get putting minor amounts of work into things. Wasn't a letter writing campaign that got a shuttle named Enterprise? If you believe strongly in it, try. If not then just roll over and hope someone else does.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So drop the whole idea of fighters.
Fighters craft in the Star Trek universe are borderline obsolete.
The weaponry of the larger ships combined with the computer assisted targeting completely removes them from the game.
DW tries hard to put them in there in its moment of Star Wars glory, and fails.
If craft that size were able to actually carry comparable firepower then the vaunted Sovereign class would have never been built as it would have been a complete waste of resources.
The Negh'Var? Haha! Would have been the most laughable waste of resources ever conceived by the Klingon Empire. As would have been the Scimitar, the D'Deridex, the Valdore. That list goes on and on and on.
There would virtually be no point in even creating explorer classifications as you could just up the size of your fighter craft to roughly 200-250 meters and have a massively overpowered fighter craft capable of immense speeds, defense and minimal exploration.
But due to their smaller size you could simply have multiple ships in an "exploration fleet"
of specific abilities and actually save on resources and have a faster more adaptive and powerful fleet than ever before!
Yet we don't see this happen. Ever.
The weapons carried by the Cruiser in Star Fleet pack enough punch to strip planets of their atmosphere. To Core a planet within minutes or hours. Enough to wipe out entire continents or the entire population of a planet within minutes if not seconds.
They are highly accurate, remember the battle computer episodes lol.
Even without the battle computers we see the Ent D take out several smaller craft as if they are worthless.
We see a Borg Cube do the same thing to smaller interceptor like craft on its way to Earth.
The Defiant is even a small and weak vessel in direct combat with a larger tech level ship.
Yes it packs a serious punch and has defenses that make other ship commanders drool in envy. But she is still only so large and is not that capable of a ship when it comes right down to it. She performed best against the Bug ships of the Dominion and that was really about it.
Fighters were a terrible idea to introduce fighters in Nemesis and it was a terrible idea to try and show shuttles as a viable combat option period.(Which we saw that they were terrible outside of packing an incredibly finite supply of torpedoes)
And it was nothing more than a broad base money grab idea by Cryptic and PWE when they introduced carriers into STO.
Enough with the stupid and poorly thought out carrier idea.
Even in todays world it is only a matter of time, and tech, before tanks and other ground based equipment will ground their generation of military aircraft.
Good point, so I submitted a ticket to ask them.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Good Idea, but they don't need to make 2 versions of the console. Look at the Jem'Hadar set it gets a bonus ability on certain ships (JH ships of course) and not on others. Surely it would be easier to convert the consoles into a set. And since only the Galaxy can slot the Saucer Seperation the 2P bonus wouldn't work on any other ship anyway.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
otherwise, folks will just fly the Risian Corvette.
regarding 2:
Here's my sollution to the Galaxy Class in STO:
Since the devs will never ever change a already existing ship, i suggest a special console to be in the next Lockbox. (only useable with the Regent or Fleet Regent Class)
Once installed the ship gets removed the one console slot, the console was installed and the appearance gets permanently changed to the galaxy Class.
All availlable Galaxy Class ship parts (like monarch or Venture class for example) of the players account get unlocked too, of course.
So Cryptric could even sell some more Regent Class ships.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Not sure where you are getting you military info from but it is wrong. I was in the Navy for 11 years and the first 7 was onboard an aircraft carrier. We had a saying that is being proven true by current military focus. He who controls the air, controls the ground. Air power is where it is at.
Now as to you views on canon...fighters were in an episode of Star Trek and a movie...that makes them canon. Generations already showed us what can happen when a small ship can get past a big ship's shields with a few torps. There were fighters in DS9 and they proved to be effective. Are we gonna start throwing out canon that we disagree with?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Your experiences don't apply to Space.
SPACE carriers use the exact same medium as SPACE fighters.
There is not superior medium like Air to control. In Star Trek weapon Systems are disproportionate more powerful than todays and ships are shielded by very strong shield systems, something that doesn't exist today.
A small Space fighter just cannot carry weapons and power systems (to operate those Weapons) heavy enough to even scratch the surface of a Starship shield.
On the other hand a Starships Weapons systems are far more accurate and by far stronger than todays, so the starship can just pop one Fighter after another.
So a big Star Trek Starship can use it's Strong weaponery without being in danger at all.
Todays military tactics just don't apply to Star Trek space combat, the fighter/target strenght relation is completely different.
One of the canon proof you tried to bring up was one ineffeffective Kazon "carrier", that didn't really posed a threat by fighter craft rather then being a battleship. The second one was the Scimitar which didn't use the fightercraft even in the heaviest battle.
So let's pretend here we would discuss this without thinking whats "cool", so i think those fighter ships where used only for atmospheric fight or to attack other fighter ships.
Other that that my only explaination is, that we saw fighter craft on board the scimitar so the producers could make the Picard+Data fly though corridor scene, nothing else.
Something personal to the Carrier fans:
Please explain to me why everyone is so crazy about Carrier ships in STO?
What's so great about it and why do you think Carriers should be part of star trek in the first place? How do you come to such a conclusion? I really try to understand...
Personally i never liked small jetfighter like spaceships, in the 90s i hated that there where only Wing Commander like games and nothing where i could fly something big.
Now STO came out and what do we get?
Escorts, Carriers and Fighters... :mad:
I'm not saying Carriers + fighters don't belong to Star Trek this has already been said a hundred times now (and i full heartly agree).
There are already so many Games and Sci fi universes filled with such ships, why does Star Trek also have to be a Carrier heavy Sci fi universe?
And please spare me with "...in reality" Stuff. Let's be honest, you guys somehow find Carriers/Fighters "cool" which is ok IMO, but Star Trek is just the wrong game for you.
They are part of canon...shouldnt everything a part of canon be in this game?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
So are Cats and Spock with his brain being removed, whats your point?
Even so, having Carriers and Space fighters everywhere is in no relation to their actual canon appearance.
You cannot expect a mass of carriers dominating Star Trek just because there where only TWO half carriers in the whole history of Star Trek. That would be rediculus.
I am going to attempt an answer here so be patient as I ramble trying to match points.
Canon has fighter like craft in used in DS9. Runabouts are used to harass Jemhadar ships. Maquis raiders are not much bigger than a runabout. Bajorans had fighters. Remember fold your knees to fit?
Usefulness in the medium: Large ships have alot of mass and thus inetria to overcome. So a small craft can accelerate/decelerate and alter its course easier than a larger ship.
One on one a fighter versus the Galaxy is a smoked fighter. Same should be said for a bird of prey. They are made because you can field alot of them and their power is additive.
This may not seem a weapon comparison but hear it out please. Look at a ball field with lights. They use a bank of small lights as opposed to one big light. Because they can add effectiveness and the loss of one is not substantial. Same could be said about phasers and shields.
As to accuracy, how many times do we see ships miss? And the smaller and more maneuverable the vessel was the more likely it was to be missed?
Answer is alot. Avoidance is a great defense, especially if you are squishy.
So a space fighter is potentially useful.
And is shown to be atleast minimally canon.
Okay so fighters and small shuttles can work. Now why use them in game. .
First carrier I got was a vo'quv. Because I thought it was a cruiser.
I was horrified at its turn rate and the shields were pathetic. Then I saw my fighters polishing off ships and obstacles outside my weapon range. :eek:
Fed side I did not buy any carrier till I was trying for a good science ship. Somethng I could use all my science powers and do crowd control/offense with. I got the Dreadnaught. And did not do well. Got the Oddy three pack and even on the 'science' version was not very sciencey. It seemed they were only releasing big cruiser types and escorts. I wanted Science love. They gave me the Vesta. I flew it and felt like I was trying to perform in a ship made of tissue paper.
So I got an Atrox. Slow and ponderous, but has a durable hull, good weapon space. And I can use my science Boff powers to great ability. Throw in the fighters adding extra damage, sometimes over the 'horizon'*. And you have the cherry on top of a sundae.
Carriers in game are a insert class of vessel and add a free extra trick to them.
That is why I said if you want to balance a carrier more honestly, make hangar spaces use weapon slots. That way it is no longer a free trick included in a ship, but a choice. Five weapons or some mix of fighters and weapons.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
You had to bring up the cats. Where is the plain house cat pet? Or beagle? They were in more episodes than the Horta. And you get that as a pet. And it is a sentient species!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Avoidance only works in STO good, in "real" Trek it doesn't matter much how fast a ship is, what you where talking about was plot armor/dexterity of the pilot.
STO favours smaller ships much more than it would be in a "real" star trek game (mostly because the devs wanted their beloved Escorts to rule the Game), so maybe Carriers work in STO, but that doesn't mean they belong to Star Trek in the first place.
I'm sorry you couldn't find any good ship you liked, but same is for me, STO is Escorts online.
I would hate it to become Escort+Carriers online.
You said it yourself you tried Cruisers, i think most people did. I think it's Cryptics fault why escorts and Carriers are so popular. Cruiser suck in STO, they should be the Kings but let's be honest, they are utter TRIBBLE.
Instead of introducing even more Carriers, Cryptic should finally make STO a real Star Trek game and give Cruisers a huge boost.
To be honest i am tired of discussing all the time about Escorts, Space fighters or Carriers and in general stuff that doesn't belong to Star Trek. Cryptic will release more Carriers, because they sell and Cryptic doesn't care if it's Star trek or not.
Whats next Jedi? Sith? Ground vehicles like tanks? Lightsabers? R2D2, the Millenium Falcon (hey they're at least canon)
Why is adding Carriers and Space fighters ok, but making a Galaxy Class that doesn't suck a huge problem?
If we're throwing canon out of the window and make our own Star Trek why can't other people (besides Escort jockeys and Carrier admirals) have the ships they want?
I just want a STO that is at least a bit more true to Star Trek and i hate the devs not doing their homework.
Each ship can be given a single pet slot to make use of the hanger they all have and ships with multiple hangers could have as many as they have hangers. Now thsoe pets should NOT be the same as the carrier pets but like the scorpions. multiple versions for each faction but each version a 1 trick pony with a single weapon. Add in woker bees for repairs instead of a small fighter for more variety. the Scorpion fighters are considered rather useless but they do add some minor damage and they do draw fire away. This would not make every ship a carrier but make use of every ships hanger.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Correct.
What I am saying is that as tech advances ground will gain traction against air.
Its not impossible. You already have ground to air systems that can track and fire upon aircraft of any kind. Once you see ground targets being able to reliably and consistently strike an aircraft, you will see a shift towards ground development again.
There are no fighters being fielded by any of the major powers in Star Trek.
In DS9 we see retrofitted courier vessels. They are not launched or bound to a "carrier" or capital ship for anything.
Some ask how these ships got there then.
Simple really. Warp Fields can be expanded to include another vessel.
You could technically have had any ship with a large enough surplus of available power generate a larger warp field that would allow smaller and slower craft to travel with the larger ship at a much greater speed than what they themselves are capable of traveling.
Its in the shows.
In Generations you have a BoP. A flying Klingon weapons platform slip several shots both disruptors and photons past an incompetent First Officers shields causing a breach in the warpcore to destroy the ship.
The Torpedo fired by any vessel larger than a shuttle craft in Star Trek is going to be a much different torpedo. The Galaxy class for example had a larger more powerful torpedo variant than the Intrepid class did. And seeing as a torpedo on even a Constitution sized vessel is anywhere from 2 to 3 meters in length and your average runabout is maybe 13-25 meters?(couldn't find actual number) And are stated to be installed with micro torpedo launchers.
So yes they can launch a torpedo.
But how effective that torpedo would be is... not readily available nor likely to be a favorable comparison.
And I still can't figure out what the Scorpion's cause for existing is.
May just have been to show scale from the ramming scene, or provide an escape route for Data and Picard.
Whatever the reason, we never see them do anything.
... Actually... I wonder if, seeing as the Remens were out to go a conquering, if they weren't to serve in a planetary role vs a planets populace, or striking against smaller less shielded targets that would allow the Scimitar to continue unabated or people knowing what they were looking for.
Distraction and harass or planetary targets. Hmm
before i do though, YES in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise, the galaxy was a carrier. so it could be possible. however, i personally do not think it should be, nor do i think it will fix the galaxy.
now for my two cents
the galaxy has always been one of my favorite ships. it is the ship i grew up to when my dad introduced me to star trek. yet the way it is in the game just does not do it justice
The galaxy was one of the most versitile ships star fleet ever made (the most in cannon), yet we are given a ship with barely ANY tac or science AT ALL.
this was supposed to be a ship, of not only exploration (as some people believe), but it was also "the muscle". as shown by the enterprise being brought to the romulan neutral zone to patrol and keep the large D'Deridex out of federation space. NO it should not become a warship like cruiser like the regent. it should be the versitile ship it is supposed to be, ready to take on any mission.
so here are a couple things that could be done.
1. eng boff skills should be more versitile. if you ain't going to change the boff setup, at least let it able to do what it is supposed to do with what it has got.
or 2. give it a good boff set up for what it was supposed to do. now there is two was to do this, one i know more people would like, and another that i personally would be fine with.
give it a three set. whats wrong with it having three different versions? you already got a engineering verion with the saucer seperation, why not give a tac with a specail beam array/console? and a science with some sort of deflector dish thing?
now the other way.
this one i think might be a bit easier. for the next lock box, how about a mirror universe galaxy? it will be tier 5 of course, but with a boff set up that does it justice
something along the lines of:
2(or three)tac 4 eng 1 eng 3(or two)science and a 2 uni? (yes this is just the nebula,but with the science and engeering boff slots switched.. because besided the lack of tac consoles is at least closer to what the nebula/galaxy should be then the galaxy itself.)
anyways, that is just how i feel, and personally i think making a mirror universe galaxy might be the right way to go! it is simpler, it will give people (at least me) what they want/give people a more cannon like galaxy. and you will still make money off of it
How do you come to that conclusion?
WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH CARRIERS SUDDENLY?
Was there an alien invasion which washed everyones brain, i didn't notice?
Whats going on people, talk to me, please!
Btw. the Galaxy Class was very much a Battleship. Even the Crew itself stated it at one point.
It's the biggest and most powerful Muscle Starfleet had even with the introduction of the sovereign, which was more like a racing car compared to the Galaxy class.
But the Galaxy WAS NEVER the flying brick with no teeth how Cryptic made it.
Read some of Dontdrunk postings for more info.
in the alternate universe in the episode of TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise" (the episode with the ambassador for clarity). there was a war with the klingons, so the enterprise was refited to be a carrier.
it is mention breifly for in the episode. NOTE: this was in the alternate universe that happened because the enterprise-c got "shifted" to the future
i myself am not obsessed with carriers and personally do not use them. however i am not against people who do
I know that episode very well, tell me the time index please.
i can't remember exactly, but it was around when they where talking about the war and the ship i believe.
i will watch that episode later today just to check and make sure, because i could be wrong of course
At one point (around 21 min) Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleships shields are almost double as strong as the Ambassador Enterprise -Cs shields.
Additionally at one point Tasha tells Castillo the Enterprise -D Battleship was the first Galaxy Class ship (in the prime univers it was number 3) with a crew of 2000 people (instead of 1000 including families).
I am also sure that the ship got stronger weapons and it's crew much more battle hardend. (pure speculation but very likely.)
THAT'S the ship my proposed Galaxy Class Battleship is supposed to be. A mirror ship, similar to the previous Mirror ships already in the Game and NOT a carrier.
Of course it wouldn't be as strong as TV ship but still way more offensive and player friendly than the lame bucket they made the Galaxy class.
no, im talking about a part when picard was talking or something.. you may be right though. i will still check it out
nice... but... the regent boff layout... it is just so... gah. especailly for a ship like the galaxy. i personally would rather just use the regent then a galaxy with that boff set up, because it (just like the galaxy's current boff set up) just doesn't feel right for what it is (though the boff is perfect for the regent/sovi)
it needs something more like the fleet d'deridex set up to be right (not exactly that though).
can't please everyone i guess XD
But i think it's easier to convince the devs to make a Galaxy/Regent mirror ship than creating a completely new one. (let's not forget the involved labor when creating a new ship.)
I mean it's still better than that lame bucket we have now in STO.
The other Option i could imagine would have been the BOFF/Console layout of the Odyssey, but i think that would be more complicated and more people would oppose to it for various reasons, because the Odyssey is more popular than the regent.
EDIT:
Personally i wouldn't want a (Fleet) D'deridex BOFF/Console layout for a mirror Galaxy Class just a CMDR Engineering + a universal (enginnering) Ensign isn't how i am imagine a Galaxy Class.
I'd rather have a
Lt.Cmdr.
Cmdr.
Lt.
Lt.Cmdr.
But that would be a bit OP, i suppose.
On the other hand i like the 3, 4, 3 Console Layout.
very true.. i do see your point. personally i still do not feel like it is right, but i would rather pay for that then what the galaxy is now. maybe the ambassador boff set up is more fitting? (but i already got the fleet ambassador just because the galaxy wasn't right.. so i don't personally want two of those XD)
well that was just an example of a more "balanced" boff layout.
personally i would like something more like
Lt.
Cmdr.
Lt.Cmdr.
Uni Lt. and Ensign
though the science and tac could be switched
similar to the Odyssey, but not quite
i do agree about the consoles
2: The Alternate Enterprise was purely combat orient so she could have been a carrier. out of all cannon ships the Galaxy and the Sovereign have the hanger space for a squadron of fighters. in prime universe they mainly held shuttle craft but the space is their to hold fighter craft instead.
But that's not how military technology works. As tech advances on the ground/ tech advances in the air....which is why we know have stealth aircraft, unmanned drones and aircraft that can baffle/jam enemy radar.
However more to the point fighter craft are now part of the canon. Im't not a carrier jockey. I tend to lean towards the cruisers. If we want this game to be close to canon that means we have to accept all of it...the good and the bad.
If they implement the holodeck and every month someone programs Professor Moriarty and he becomes sentient and tries to destroy the ship...well I can't complain. It's part of canon.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.