The ironic thing being most of the people complaining have sub par fits and do sub par damage, and lack any real understanding of the game or mission outside the general community backed flow. If your best solution is pestf channel then I'd generally find you worthless and/or clueless in my runs. Elitism knows no bounds~~~
That said, I am always willing to help, just requires speaking up in the first place.
I have not seen anyone trying to learn from the noob's mistakes on this thread. Sure, most of the time they do things you know better than to do, but every once in a while they do something brilliant, that you can copy to improve your own performance.
My father taught me a valuable lesson when I was young. He assigned me to work with the absolute dumbest guy on the crew. At the end of the day I was tired, frustrated, and ranting about the idiot I had spent the day with.
Dad said, "You did two things wrong. First, you didn't try to teach him to do better, you just got angry with him. It's not his fault he's not as smart as you, but you can teach him what you need him to do to get the job done. Second, you didn't pay attention to what he was doing. You don't know everything, and he may know something you don't no matter how stupid he is. You can learn a lot from an idiot if you pay attention, even if it's only what not to do."
Unfortunately you can not sit in a STF and watch a noob to learn anything from them. You have just enough time to teach to them the right way to do the STF.
The ironic thing being most of the people complaining have sub par fits and do sub par damage, and lack any real understanding of the game or mission outside the general community backed flow. If your best solution is pestf channel then I'd generally find you worthless and/or clueless in my runs. Elitism knows no bounds~~~
That said, I am always willing to help, just requires speaking up in the first place.
I personally never once said make private queues or channels. I have repeatedly said ive tried to teach new players how to properly do stfs but as zeuxidemus001 points out correctly most noobs thinks they are elite and ignore the advice. that is why cryptic needs to adopt xbox lives ignore system party matching. if a player is on your ignore list you can not and will not be partied with them. in reality it only effects you as it limits the number of players you can be partied with and doesn't stop "noobs" from getting into queues. its a perfect win-win situation for everyone.
As of a few days ago... My partial resolution to this "Newb ESTF" situation is to monitor them... If they start going out of the norm, then I'll say something. But now - I shouldn't have to be doing that... So... When they do something 'out of the norm' I'll let them know - for example - in The Cure Found(?) Where you kill all the probes, before taking out any of the cubes - I generally say: "You kill the cube early, you fight all these spawn coming Kang's way; since YOU kill the cube early!" And just go about 'my business.' A couple of times it worked, out of like 20? Now it's at the point where I haven't completed many. Before - half the time - I'm trying to kill like three of those negh'vars(?) by myself... With a group of experienced players, you don't have that problem because they know what's going on. So I move on to the next ESTF...
I wouldn't mind in the cure if someone said we're going to blow one side asap and be ready or something like that. But when they don't say anything and I'm by myself on one side trying to take out the auto-spawn and probes, then it becomes ridiculous to say the least... Having to work much harder for something that was 'easy'; combined with those people just going after the probes and cubes and not going after the spawns makes it beyond frustrating.
Oh, I found this funny... One guy said that he wanted a challenge... Just as he said that 2 of the other players died... I saw them die a couple of times already, so I knew it would be a bit before they would be able to respawn. I then told him... "You want a challenge? Try this!" And abruptly left as 3 negh'vars spawned <EG> "You want a challenge" then let the others know before hand, I wouldn't mind and once... ONLY ONCE did someone say that. I said fine because I saw this as a 'quick' 'hard' and 'dirty' way to get through it faster, but as it turned out - only quicker by a few minutes.... So making it quicker by a few minutes, working like 5 times harder than normal AND Increasing the risk of failure isn't worth it. So over all - the 'normal way' to do them is still the best way. Not to mention that the normal way is easy to learn and not so chaotic. It also makes it easier for those whom do not have 'Elite gear.'
after the last few nights I pretty much have given up on newb STFers most dont listen or they dont care. I have had the unfortunate chance to be grouped with the same person in a STF 3 times the first time told them the directions ie dont kill the gens before the cube and he still does it BTW he isnt the only one that has been doing this but unfortunately it seems to be more of a common practice lately
The sad part is I have been paired on many occasions with people who can't even accomplish them on normal. Guess how much better they will be in an elite run?
You really want to help new to stf players out? Offer a bootcamp. Offer it in zone chat, offer it to new players who are in the estf. 2 veterans and 3 pugs in a private match, explian the objectives and the target order before entering the match then teach them during the match. after it is over discuss what was done wrong AND what was done right. Then do another if they are willing.
Gating does not teach anyone anything. Expecting them to find guides on the web is an excersise in futility. Actualy offering training in zone chat or during a pug will get better results. Not only better results but a good chance to meet some good people.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
You really want to help new to stf players out? Offer a bootcamp. Offer it in zone chat, offer it to new players who are in the estf. 2 veterans and 3 pugs in a private match, explian the objectives and the target order before entering the match then teach them during the match. after it is over discuss what was done wrong AND what was done right. Then do another if they are willing.
Gating does not teach anyone anything. Expecting them to find guides on the web is an excersise in futility. Actualy offering training in zone chat or during a pug will get better results. Not only better results but a good chance to meet some good people.
I agree with this.
You have pvp bootcamp.. why not organize STF ground and space STF bootcamp.
Obviously people could need it... I am sure most people would like to learn if opportunities are given.
I myself have been looking for this.
I would like to improve.. but none in my fleet can help me due to timezone differences or simply people are not interested to teach.
Less than 1% of a player base from any games actually visit that games forum. With that said, no matter how many threads you people make complaining about noobs in elite STF's, it's always going to happen. If you PUG, EXPECT it to be filled with people who have no idea what they are doing. This way when you do find find yourself group with fellow vets, you can be pleasantly suprised
I have no issues to help people out in fact I would welcome it. but recently I have noticed a very large lack of wanting to learn or accept help, and I am sure most people who post on these types of threads understand it wont solve anything but you know sometimes it is nice just to vent
listen, we were all new once, but if you don't know how to do a stf, please do not que it in elite. I am so tired of wasting my time, I now will go back to the channel used to form the stfs, which I will not name here for fear some of you who don't know what to do in an stf will end up there. I have 5 toons maxed so a leaver penalty for me is little more than changing toons and a lot better then wasting 45 minutes to totally lose an stf much less not get optional. There are guides for those of you who do not know how to play a stf, please use them. Don't frack someones playing time by TRIBBLE up an stf.
I've seen opinions on both ends of the spectrum in answer to this, but none really changed my overall opinion. It isn't a complicated one, as I've played other MMO's and run into exactly the same issue, from both the noob and vet perspective. So, in two parts:
1) If you are new to any given mission, in any given game, let the PUG know. Throw out a simple statement that this is your first time doing this specific mission, and ask for advice on what to do. Sure, the guy with 5 toons might just bail in order to save time... or he might actually be willing to run you through the basics of the mission. You won't know, and will be forced to learn the hard way, if you don't ask.
2) When either seeing the above request, or just plain seeing things go awry, offer to provide assistance or advice if anyone wants it. Yes, some folks will be offended, but at least you gave it a shot. Plus, if you don't make the offer, that player won't really improve as quickly... which increases the odds of having them "ruin" another PUG when you inevitably get re-grouped with them.
Actually... thinking of some other posts, I do have to chime in with my agreement on one other comment I saw earlier:
3) If you are a "vet", play like one. By this, I simply mean that if you have already seen an ESTF go wrong before (in oh so many ways, lol)... be ready for it. We all know it happens, and some of the best runs are those where everything goes wrong and it doesn't matter... because that cruiser just shot across the wave of Nanite Probes with Evasive Maneuvers and Eject Warp Plasma, buying time for everyone else to clear 3 gennies and a transformer. Or that escort just parked and alpha struck (alpha striked? alpha'd? whatever...) wave after wave of Raptors, allowing everyone else to hold and clear the second Cube. And so forth. Best of all: when you actually are the one doing so.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Since you're the one with the problem coming on the boards and ranting about it, instead you should put a team together or stop doing it. Your post comes across as 'play the game my way or no way at all' attitude. It's just a bad attitude man, get over it..this is a game and you're already wasting time playing it. Who cares how many toons you run around yet, you brag about not caring about quitting an STF..real team player and everybody now knows.
I agree with this statement. I'm always trying to make the PUG aware that I'm new at any particular mission. It let's them know to coach you as a player, and to forgive a little when mistakes are made. However, there is always going to be turn over in this game and some people are going to be new. I'd personally be more offended by the AFK guy sitting around not doing anything than someone making a error. because at least they're trying to contribute at least.
Everyone has to understand that this is a game, and this is supposed to be for fun. Yes, it's your time spent on this game, but it is overall meant to be played with people, and people make mistakes.
STOwiki has really great guides and has information on most aspects of the game, it's a great resource for players. It maybe helpful if links were added to it from the in game library.
World of ******** has a dungeon journal system that has the bosses in a dungeon and general walk tho. That maybe what STO needs as a well.
Yeah, the problem with this approach is that the people who WOULD listen to and attend an STF bootcamp are the people who wouldn't have any difficulty not fumbling it horribly in the field, either.
The fact of the matter is that you're just going to have to get used to the idea that a random group is going to be a selection of random people...who probably suck. If you're lucky, you'll meet some impressionable newbies rather than obstinate noobs. But as bad as this might be, any other possible proposal to change this will simply make the problem WORSE. Trying to force people to play NORMAL is just revolting, as Normal is an utter waste of time to even be in. It fails miserably as both content and tutorial.
Just deal with it. And if you can't, well, that's why they have private queues. But honestly, even if you can't field a full group, you can greatly improve your lot by queuing with at least one partner.
Comments
That said, I am always willing to help, just requires speaking up in the first place.
Unfortunately you can not sit in a STF and watch a noob to learn anything from them. You have just enough time to teach to them the right way to do the STF.
I personally never once said make private queues or channels. I have repeatedly said ive tried to teach new players how to properly do stfs but as zeuxidemus001 points out correctly most noobs thinks they are elite and ignore the advice. that is why cryptic needs to adopt xbox lives ignore system party matching. if a player is on your ignore list you can not and will not be partied with them. in reality it only effects you as it limits the number of players you can be partied with and doesn't stop "noobs" from getting into queues. its a perfect win-win situation for everyone.
I wouldn't mind in the cure if someone said we're going to blow one side asap and be ready or something like that. But when they don't say anything and I'm by myself on one side trying to take out the auto-spawn and probes, then it becomes ridiculous to say the least... Having to work much harder for something that was 'easy'; combined with those people just going after the probes and cubes and not going after the spawns makes it beyond frustrating.
Oh, I found this funny... One guy said that he wanted a challenge... Just as he said that 2 of the other players died... I saw them die a couple of times already, so I knew it would be a bit before they would be able to respawn. I then told him... "You want a challenge? Try this!" And abruptly left as 3 negh'vars spawned <EG> "You want a challenge" then let the others know before hand, I wouldn't mind and once... ONLY ONCE did someone say that. I said fine because I saw this as a 'quick' 'hard' and 'dirty' way to get through it faster, but as it turned out - only quicker by a few minutes.... So making it quicker by a few minutes, working like 5 times harder than normal AND Increasing the risk of failure isn't worth it. So over all - the 'normal way' to do them is still the best way.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Gating does not teach anyone anything. Expecting them to find guides on the web is an excersise in futility. Actualy offering training in zone chat or during a pug will get better results. Not only better results but a good chance to meet some good people.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I agree with this.
You have pvp bootcamp.. why not organize STF ground and space STF bootcamp.
Obviously people could need it... I am sure most people would like to learn if opportunities are given.
I myself have been looking for this.
I would like to improve.. but none in my fleet can help me due to timezone differences or simply people are not interested to teach.
I've seen opinions on both ends of the spectrum in answer to this, but none really changed my overall opinion. It isn't a complicated one, as I've played other MMO's and run into exactly the same issue, from both the noob and vet perspective. So, in two parts:
1) If you are new to any given mission, in any given game, let the PUG know. Throw out a simple statement that this is your first time doing this specific mission, and ask for advice on what to do. Sure, the guy with 5 toons might just bail in order to save time... or he might actually be willing to run you through the basics of the mission. You won't know, and will be forced to learn the hard way, if you don't ask.
2) When either seeing the above request, or just plain seeing things go awry, offer to provide assistance or advice if anyone wants it. Yes, some folks will be offended, but at least you gave it a shot. Plus, if you don't make the offer, that player won't really improve as quickly... which increases the odds of having them "ruin" another PUG when you inevitably get re-grouped with them.
Actually... thinking of some other posts, I do have to chime in with my agreement on one other comment I saw earlier:
3) If you are a "vet", play like one. By this, I simply mean that if you have already seen an ESTF go wrong before (in oh so many ways, lol)... be ready for it. We all know it happens, and some of the best runs are those where everything goes wrong and it doesn't matter... because that cruiser just shot across the wave of Nanite Probes with Evasive Maneuvers and Eject Warp Plasma, buying time for everyone else to clear 3 gennies and a transformer. Or that escort just parked and alpha struck (alpha striked? alpha'd? whatever...) wave after wave of Raptors, allowing everyone else to hold and clear the second Cube. And so forth. Best of all: when you actually are the one doing so.
Everyone has to understand that this is a game, and this is supposed to be for fun. Yes, it's your time spent on this game, but it is overall meant to be played with people, and people make mistakes.
World of ******** has a dungeon journal system that has the bosses in a dungeon and general walk tho. That maybe what STO needs as a well.
The fact of the matter is that you're just going to have to get used to the idea that a random group is going to be a selection of random people...who probably suck. If you're lucky, you'll meet some impressionable newbies rather than obstinate noobs. But as bad as this might be, any other possible proposal to change this will simply make the problem WORSE. Trying to force people to play NORMAL is just revolting, as Normal is an utter waste of time to even be in. It fails miserably as both content and tutorial.
Just deal with it. And if you can't, well, that's why they have private queues. But honestly, even if you can't field a full group, you can greatly improve your lot by queuing with at least one partner.