As I pointed out earlier, they aren't out to kill the small fleets, they wanted the system to be fully accessible to them as well as the big fleets. But any concessions to the small boys would give the big boys too much of an advantage. Trust me, even if they lowered the costs of projects by a factor of ten, you'd still be here complaining that the 500 man fleets have an unfair advantage over your 10 person fleet. There just is no way to get around that, so stop screaming conspiracy, there isn't one, Cryptic is doing everything they can to make it as fair as possible.
Me and a friend are 2 manning our fleet, and we have no complaints. We started the fleet knowing what we were getting into.
We have Tier 3 starbase, shipyard and engineering. We have Tier 2 Embassy and Dilithium Mine and everything is going fine. Like someone said earlier, its all about project management and resourcefulness.
It has taken us a couple of months to get where we are, but we like the small fleet because me and him both have access to as many fleet credits and fleet gear as we need. Provisioning is also never a problem.
1. As I've stated in multiple forum's being the fleet leader for a small fleet does hurt me and the other two people that contribute. The remaining 96% do nothing.
2. They can find an alternative to insane requirements for dilithium, buy removing it all together. I know people turn dilithium to zen, so therefore Crytpic wants to keep dilithium as low as possible or else everyone would be getting free zen. But in a small fleet, it kills you to keep having to loose so much just to get some gear.
3. Remove all the "high end gear" and allow us to literally craft it ourselves. Real crafting (not the stuff they have now). Therefore joining a fleet will be because you get to play PVP or against other fleets for nice rewards. That will also help revive the PVP system.
Like it's been said before, I've thought about it (especially today) to leave my fleet, but I can't after putting in so much. At the same time between the requirements for STF and working on a Starbase, I have to say that their is no real joy anymore, it's all become so tedious.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
The game design deals in absolutes instead of relativity, but in terms of 'balance' everything should scale appropriately. You see plenty of examples in the forum about crew death rates and shield bleed ~ static numbers that innately benefit some ships above others.
Fleet Contributions are not different in that regard.
So your fleet has 45 people, masquerading as 184 toons, ~ your fleet now has to pay 284% of the 'static' development cost.
A fleet of 4 buddies totaling 16 toons, has to pay 116% the static cost.
counterpoint ~ You assume that 'balance' is an objective of the development team, when in all likelihood it is not. Although I would like to think that decision is not of their own accord (publisher, CBS, whatever) as most artists take great pride in their creations.
counterpoint 2 ~ Creating a scaling system does nothing to encourage fleets to grow. Anyone who pays off 4 other players in zone chat can make their own fleet and gain solo access to anything they want. I would prefer this, but it's not realistic in terms of fostering a healthy social community, which is important to an MMO.
If new content and player growth is no longer the objective of your game, than retention becomes all the most important, and your friends are the greatest polarizing force in that regard.
@ataloss ~ I concur with your point of view on the dili economy.
The game design deals in absolutes instead of relativity, but in terms of 'balance' everything should scale appropriately. You see plenty of examples in the forum about crew death rates and shield bleed ~ static numbers that innately benefit some ships above others.
Fleet Contributions are not different in that regard.
So your fleet has 45 people, masquerading as 184 toons, ~ your fleet now has to pay 284% of the 'static' development cost.
A fleet of 4 buddies totaling 16 toons, has to pay 116% the static cost.
counterpoint ~ You assume that 'balance' is an objective of the development team, when in all likelihood it is not. Although I would like to think that decision is not of their own accord (publisher, CBS, whatever) as most artists take great pride in their creations.
counterpoint 2 ~ Creating a scaling system does nothing to encourage fleets to grow. Anyone who pays off 4 other players in zone chat can make their own fleet and gain solo access to anything they want. I would prefer this, but it's not realistic in terms of fostering a healthy social community, which is important to an MMO.
If new content and player growth is no longer the objective of your game, than retention becomes all the most important, and your friends are the greatest polarizing force in that regard.
@ataloss ~ I concur with your point of view on the dili economy.
The devs have actually said they considered that model, unfortunately, that is too open to abuse by larger fleets. Let's say I have a 500 man fleet, if that sort of system was in place, whenever there was a particularly expensive project, I could dismiss all but my most essential fleetmates in order to take advantage of the small fleet discounts and then re-invite them when we complete the project, thereby bypassing the restriction.
As for balance, the devs originally envisioned this system to be long term endgame content, not something for players to grind through in a matter of weeks or months. That's why the projects are setup the way they are, not as part of a conspiracy to encourage everyone to join a huge fleet.
1. As I've stated in multiple forum's being the fleet leader for a small fleet does hurt me and the other two people that contribute. The remaining 96% do nothing.
2. They can find an alternative to insane requirements for dilithium, buy removing it all together. I know people turn dilithium to zen, so therefore Crytpic wants to keep dilithium as low as possible or else everyone would be getting free zen. But in a small fleet, it kills you to keep having to loose so much just to get some gear.
3. Remove all the "high end gear" and allow us to literally craft it ourselves. Real crafting (not the stuff they have now). Therefore joining a fleet will be because you get to play PVP or against other fleets for nice rewards. That will also help revive the PVP system.
Like it's been said before, I've thought about it (especially today) to leave my fleet, but I can't after putting in so much. At the same time between the requirements for STF and working on a Starbase, I have to say that their is no real joy anymore, it's all become so tedious.
Hi ataloss,
If I may suggest, perhaps you actually should join a more active fleet. It is much better to be with others who are able to get to the ultimate goal (T-5) and are active to help with you, rather than burn out. Player burn out is so high right now, I hear from many players who get disenchanted and stuck in T-3. Those who eventually reach T-5 swear they'll never do it again; which is no help to the many fleets who are striving for support. Whatever you do, don't burn out. I seen it happen and can tell you, it's bad, one of the worse things that can happen to a player here.
To put it all in perspective: Players contribute till they reach t-3 and suddenly see the big effort ahead, but they can't bear to leave because they put in so much already. That is a trick of the mind however, because the amount you'll spend getting to T-5 from T-3 is way more than the amount you spent getting to T-3 from T-1. So no matter how you slice it, players will save enormous resources even if you switched fleet after reaching T-3. Thinking about all that spent resource doesn't always do players favors in the long run. You don't have to join a big fleet either, just one that's more active and is friendly.
I have one such fleet and I offer if you can't take that kind of financial drain, come join us. I'm not alone in building so you have to spend so much and you'll go farther with what you do spend. Just put the idea out there for you, hope everything works out. Cheers
@Scaling Fleets ~ haha, that's kind of obvious isn't it. How naive of me
I don't meant to imply a conspiracy, only to underscore my point on satiating.
Eventually we have our fill of what content there is, or some other circumstance pushes the players or even more likely the developers onto other projects.
I concede I don't know much about game design, but I've learned a little bit about business in my career, and if you're objective isn't growth, than your doomed to stagnate.
If there's no growth, there's entropy so eventually your costs start overrun your profits. The first thing you'll see start to go is R&D because you have less to invest, as you've shifted interests onto other projects. The next you'll see start to go are resources (staffing) and finally when it's no longer cost effective to maintain at all it will shut down.
This is a long term process, and not a critique on the state of STO. But you can already see a lacking of attention to details because resources are better spent elsewhere.
Hi ataloss,
If I may suggest, perhaps you actually should join a more active fleet. It is much better to be with others who are able to get to the ultimate goal (T-5) and are active to help with you, rather than burn out. Player burn out is so high right now, I hear from many players who get disenchanted and stuck in T-3. Those who eventually reach T-5 swear they'll never do it again; which is no help to the many fleets who are striving for support. Whatever you do, don't burn out. I seen it happen and can tell you, it's bad, one of the worse things that can happen to a player here.
To put it all in perspective: Players contribute till they reach t-3 and suddenly see the big effort ahead, but they can't bear to leave because they put in so much already. That is a trick of the mind however, because the amount you'll spend getting to T-5 from T-3 is way more than the amount you spent getting to T-3 from T-1. So no matter how you slice it, players will save enormous resources even if you switched fleet after reaching T-3. Thinking about all that spent resource doesn't always do players favors in the long run. You don't have to join a big fleet either, just one that's more active and is friendly.
I have one such fleet and I offer if you can't take that kind of financial drain, come join us. I'm not alone in building so you have to spend so much and you'll go farther with what you do spend. Just put the idea out there for you, hope everything works out. Cheers
I have about 250,000 fleet marks (Off the top of my head). We just reached T1 after a month.In that same time I've gone from 4 Million EC to around 300,000 EC because of buying very rare gear from the exchange and my fleet projects.
I'd like to join a more active fleet, but this is my 4th fleet (and now I lead). I know what it feels like to be in a 100+ person fleet and feel like a fly on the wall. I also know what it's like to be in a 10 person fleet and feel like an Elephant in a Circus.
As much as I want to take you up on your offer, If I leave the fleet to the 2nd in command, that would only leave two active players. After which I'm CERTAIN he will disband the fleet.
I'm almost giving up on the Cryptic overhauling the fleet system. Fleet Tiers and STF has become more of a boring grind than something I look forward to. To be honest I'm replaying most of the episodes again, instead of working on STF and Fleet projects. Even staying a Millionaire is less appealing to me.
So in closing it sounds like I"m starting to do exactly what you told me not to...burn out.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
I'd like to think it's about more than just completing projects.
The bigger issue is having enough members online at the same time to actually do stuff together.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Has anybody tried to have a Quartermaster on fleet stores to prevent "ninjaing" seriously one guy with full control of the fleet bank who is frequently online make it so a fleet member has to message him for anything and to prevent granted access the "quartermaster" would use the mail system to send the requested item to the fleet member who requested it if approved for said item. employing this will stop the problem in its entirety as only one trusted member would have access to the fleet bank in its full potential.
I can so appreciate the many many thoughts on this topic. Being in a small fleet is both a choice and frustrating at the same time. There are a few points I'd like to make though if you will bear with me.
First and foremost, the quantities needed for each tier are uniform whether you're in a small fleet or a large fleet. If there were a way to determine the quantities based on members of record for that fleet, that would be ideal (even if it's possible at all). It really is about the journey and not the destination.
Secondly, there are a great number of people who are able to be online playing STO all day long everyday. No matter the age or circumstances, those select individuals simply have more time to do the missions and learn the secrets of success. A great many players, though, are older and simply cannot be online all the time. Be it because they work full-time, go to school full-time, or a combination of the 2.
Society, in general, is all about the "me, me, me" and "I want it now" mentality. STO is no exception. I get a real kick out of some who claim "it's easy to beat the ESTF" or "it's easy to build a T5 base". You obviously are not looking at things objectively. What's easy for some is a real challenge for others. Instead of saying "quit your whining", why don't you offer some legitimate suggestions on how to do better with what they have and what to work towards. We don't all have the ability to be on as long or as often. We don't always have the size in our fleets as you do. We all do the best we can with the time we have available. While there are always whiners, there's also some who are extremely helpful and I salute those that have learned enough and decide to pass on what they've learned. You do more good for this community than you can possibly know.
For those that will read this and begin to bash, I pity you that you've obviously not read the entire post. Your reaction speaks volumes.
I am in Omega, Inc Fleet. We are working hard to completing our T3 base. We will make it and then set our sights on T4. We will never stop. We will continue to work when we are able as hard as we can.
I have about 250,000 fleet marks (Off the top of my head). We just reached T1 after a month.In that same time I've gone from 4 Million EC to around 300,000 EC because of buying very rare gear from the exchange and my fleet projects.
I'd like to join a more active fleet, but this is my 4th fleet (and now I lead). I know what it feels like to be in a 100+ person fleet and feel like a fly on the wall. I also know what it's like to be in a 10 person fleet and feel like an Elephant in a Circus.
As much as I want to take you up on your offer, If I leave the fleet to the 2nd in command, that would only leave two active players. After which I'm CERTAIN he will disband the fleet.
I'm almost giving up on the Cryptic overhauling the fleet system. Fleet Tiers and STF has become more of a boring grind than something I look forward to. To be honest I'm replaying most of the episodes again, instead of working on STF and Fleet projects. Even staying a Millionaire is less appealing to me.
So in closing it sounds like I"m starting to do exactly what you told me not to...burn out.
I understand your point and it's perfectly valid. Many fleets do regard newcomers as insignificant compared to veteran members, especially if the fleet is High Tier and those older members have contributed scores of resources. This is where it boils down to who's in charge. Majority of fleets large and small are commandeered by players who have rigid rules, an inflexible course and dictatorial qualities, arising from the insecurities they've faced. That's why our fleet is unique, because I'm not like that and I don't lead my fleet in that fashion. Sure, many a leader may pay lip service to members and preach sermons on and off the forums, but I did not found my fleet to be at the whim of any single member, including myself. That's why I'm not the only leader in it and all the original founders that I started the fleet with, are still with me.
It all boils down to approach. If I wanted to disregard new members I could, but that's not the way I want to run my fleet. I don't spend 5 hours a day of my playtime personally talking to players in an effort to find lasting members just to shove them aside once I get them. That's why it says on my fleet roster comment: "You can contact me anytime for game help." I understand your bad experiences, I've had them as well, but I'm not like them and I won't stand for that in the fleet I lead. All members in my fleet are equally helped by myself and all have equal opportunity to bear responsibilities according to their capability, regardless when they join. That won't change whether we remain where we are or become Tier-5.
I say this to you and your fleetmates: I know how hard a climb you have ahead, tier 1 is a long way from where you want to be. Regardless, if you want to keep pushing as far as you're able, you have my full support. I have that same dream for my fleet which I strongly fight for and far be it for me to decide which dream is right or wrong; that's not my job. My job is care for the community I have and see its members are comfortable so they remain with me in years ahead. I value people, and since I'm an ordinary type person, not one of the showoff ostentatious types that people tend to flock to, I value more the people who do choose to stay with me.
So if on the other hand you decide a more active fleet is less taxing and will enhance the game experience for you and your fellow members, our door is open for you. You can come in anytime. I can assure you from here, you'll be a welcome part of our prospering family.
Lucky thing for now is really there isn't a lot of content that the elite fleet gear is required. You can still buy good stuff off the exchange, like XI blues and what not.
If the difficulty of endgame stuff were actually challenging to the point of success was not measured in faster completion, but actually not failing then fleet gear would be more of a requirement.
I don't use fleet gear for anything but my pvp ships.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
First and foremost, the quantities needed for each tier are uniform whether you're in a small fleet or a large fleet. If there were a way to determine the quantities based on members of record for that fleet, that would be ideal (even if it's possible at all). It really is about the journey and not the destination.
There is a way to base it off of Fleet Size but Cryptic needs to think outside of the box to deliver it. Now all they need to do is create a NEW field for fleet databases.... MAXMembers - this is the maximum number of members (Accounts not Characters) recorded in a fleet in the last 3 months...6 months...whatever. Now come up with a real static number (as stated before in this thread) and have a factor based on the MAXMembers number. What this does is assuage Cryptic's fears that people will drop the large fleets just to get the cheaper costs...why, a fleet that did this would have to wait it out 3 or 6 months just to see the benefit.
Just started the T2 mine upgrade, OK it was a nice surprise not to need a small fortune in Dilithium, but, sixteen thousand Fleet Marks and nearly three thousand Mine Provisions! By comparison, the T3 Starbase is only ten thousand FMs, and the provisions, thats 1.6 million fleet credits! I am not going to complain about the six hundred doffs, but it is oh so boring boring boring.
Maybe they should rename the mine tiers as: T1, T3 and T5, and, I wonder how many of us would have bothered even starting, if they had published all the cost up front. Doing Fleet projects is like navigating a maze blindfold, and getting punched in the face every time you turn a corner!
As usual we can cover everything other than the Fleet Marks, that is going to take quite some time.
The fleet i'm in started not too long ago, and we've gotten up to the tier 1 mine upgrade. One thing I've noticed is that people don't seem to be contributing a great deal of FM. I'm trying to get a few of my friends interested in STO in the hopes that maybe a couple weeks from now they'll be at VA and ready to play in a guaranteed team.
That happens alot, usually because of poor choice of missions. For the new level 50 player who's not a total chump, Crystalline Catastrophe (Normal) should be the fleet mark mission of choice: 45 fleet marks (55 during bonus hour), plus 480 dilithium, plus a random gear.
Just started the T2 mine upgrade, OK it was a nice surprise not to need a small fortune in Dilithium, but, sixteen thousand Fleet Marks and nearly three thousand Mine Provisions! By comparison, the T3 Starbase is only ten thousand FMs, and the provisions, thats 1.6 million fleet credits! I am not going to complain about the six hundred doffs, but it is oh so boring boring boring.
Maybe they should rename the mine tiers as: T1, T3 and T5, and, I wonder how many of us would have bothered even starting, if they had published all the cost up front. Doing Fleet projects is like navigating a maze blindfold, and getting punched in the face every time you turn a corner!
As usual we can cover everything other than the Fleet Marks, that is going to take quite some time.
The whole point of the fleet system was to take time.
Its also been made pretty clear that they don't intend to fix the bug that fleets can buy from eachothers stores, so there is no downside to being in a fleet that is behind, or small, or whatever.
Also you seem to not even know what season you are playing.
...there are a great number of people who are able to be online playing STO all day long everyday...
That would be me. I can grind a thousand marks a day, easy. I have a LTS, so it made sense for me to start a solo fleet. Looking at a year for a tier 5 shipyard, and then who knows for the rest. Something to do with the game other than kill stuff - create stuff. I don't really see the need for a starbase above tier 1. Lots of good info in this thread, fun read.
Both the Federation and Klingon Fleet decided today to fold.
With Dev comments from the Trek Convention Panel were an insult to Small Fleets, with them basically saying "join Big Fleets for lewt". Then their lackluster promises to help small fleets (which obviously the Dilithium Mine wasn't).
You got the Daily Grind that has burnt people out. People bankrump of Dilithium, due everything asking for Dilithium, the Abusers and AFKers in the Fleet Mark Events, and of course the lure of Big Fleets and not having to do work, really has killed Small Fleets.
Both the Federation and Klingon Fleet decided today to fold... ...Cryptic really doesn't care about small fleets.
My comiserations for both your fleets.
Cryptic do not care about the sise of any fleet, just that they soak up Dilithium and encourage people to buy Zen with RL money. They dont care if any individual works hard or if they ride on the backs of hundreds of others, their business is selling Zen. Full Stop.
The problem is, that as more and more small fleets fold and big fleets become even more prominent, they will adjust the costs of all new content to "be appropriate for" maxed sise fleets. I.E. the next fleet project will cost a lot more!
Call me Cassandra, but mark my words, when big fleets are the only business in town, they will still want to drain away everyones Dilithium, they cant do that just with the price of the goodies.
Despite all the angst over fleets, I have yet to hear one good idea to address the issue that wouldn't be exploitable by large fleets while making it easier on small fleets.
Comments
We have Tier 3 starbase, shipyard and engineering. We have Tier 2 Embassy and Dilithium Mine and everything is going fine. Like someone said earlier, its all about project management and resourcefulness.
It has taken us a couple of months to get where we are, but we like the small fleet because me and him both have access to as many fleet credits and fleet gear as we need. Provisioning is also never a problem.
2. They can find an alternative to insane requirements for dilithium, buy removing it all together. I know people turn dilithium to zen, so therefore Crytpic wants to keep dilithium as low as possible or else everyone would be getting free zen. But in a small fleet, it kills you to keep having to loose so much just to get some gear.
3. Remove all the "high end gear" and allow us to literally craft it ourselves. Real crafting (not the stuff they have now). Therefore joining a fleet will be because you get to play PVP or against other fleets for nice rewards. That will also help revive the PVP system.
Like it's been said before, I've thought about it (especially today) to leave my fleet, but I can't after putting in so much. At the same time between the requirements for STF and working on a Starbase, I have to say that their is no real joy anymore, it's all become so tedious.
Fleet Contributions are not different in that regard.
So your fleet has 45 people, masquerading as 184 toons, ~ your fleet now has to pay 284% of the 'static' development cost.
A fleet of 4 buddies totaling 16 toons, has to pay 116% the static cost.
counterpoint ~ You assume that 'balance' is an objective of the development team, when in all likelihood it is not. Although I would like to think that decision is not of their own accord (publisher, CBS, whatever) as most artists take great pride in their creations.
counterpoint 2 ~ Creating a scaling system does nothing to encourage fleets to grow. Anyone who pays off 4 other players in zone chat can make their own fleet and gain solo access to anything they want. I would prefer this, but it's not realistic in terms of fostering a healthy social community, which is important to an MMO.
If new content and player growth is no longer the objective of your game, than retention becomes all the most important, and your friends are the greatest polarizing force in that regard.
@ataloss ~ I concur with your point of view on the dili economy.
The devs have actually said they considered that model, unfortunately, that is too open to abuse by larger fleets. Let's say I have a 500 man fleet, if that sort of system was in place, whenever there was a particularly expensive project, I could dismiss all but my most essential fleetmates in order to take advantage of the small fleet discounts and then re-invite them when we complete the project, thereby bypassing the restriction.
As for balance, the devs originally envisioned this system to be long term endgame content, not something for players to grind through in a matter of weeks or months. That's why the projects are setup the way they are, not as part of a conspiracy to encourage everyone to join a huge fleet.
Hi ataloss,
If I may suggest, perhaps you actually should join a more active fleet. It is much better to be with others who are able to get to the ultimate goal (T-5) and are active to help with you, rather than burn out. Player burn out is so high right now, I hear from many players who get disenchanted and stuck in T-3. Those who eventually reach T-5 swear they'll never do it again; which is no help to the many fleets who are striving for support. Whatever you do, don't burn out. I seen it happen and can tell you, it's bad, one of the worse things that can happen to a player here.
To put it all in perspective: Players contribute till they reach t-3 and suddenly see the big effort ahead, but they can't bear to leave because they put in so much already. That is a trick of the mind however, because the amount you'll spend getting to T-5 from T-3 is way more than the amount you spent getting to T-3 from T-1. So no matter how you slice it, players will save enormous resources even if you switched fleet after reaching T-3. Thinking about all that spent resource doesn't always do players favors in the long run. You don't have to join a big fleet either, just one that's more active and is friendly.
I have one such fleet and I offer if you can't take that kind of financial drain, come join us. I'm not alone in building so you have to spend so much and you'll go farther with what you do spend. Just put the idea out there for you, hope everything works out. Cheers
I don't meant to imply a conspiracy, only to underscore my point on satiating.
Eventually we have our fill of what content there is, or some other circumstance pushes the players or even more likely the developers onto other projects.
I concede I don't know much about game design, but I've learned a little bit about business in my career, and if you're objective isn't growth, than your doomed to stagnate.
If there's no growth, there's entropy so eventually your costs start overrun your profits. The first thing you'll see start to go is R&D because you have less to invest, as you've shifted interests onto other projects. The next you'll see start to go are resources (staffing) and finally when it's no longer cost effective to maintain at all it will shut down.
This is a long term process, and not a critique on the state of STO. But you can already see a lacking of attention to details because resources are better spent elsewhere.
I have about 250,000 fleet marks (Off the top of my head). We just reached T1 after a month.In that same time I've gone from 4 Million EC to around 300,000 EC because of buying very rare gear from the exchange and my fleet projects.
I'd like to join a more active fleet, but this is my 4th fleet (and now I lead). I know what it feels like to be in a 100+ person fleet and feel like a fly on the wall. I also know what it's like to be in a 10 person fleet and feel like an Elephant in a Circus.
As much as I want to take you up on your offer, If I leave the fleet to the 2nd in command, that would only leave two active players. After which I'm CERTAIN he will disband the fleet.
I'm almost giving up on the Cryptic overhauling the fleet system. Fleet Tiers and STF has become more of a boring grind than something I look forward to. To be honest I'm replaying most of the episodes again, instead of working on STF and Fleet projects. Even staying a Millionaire is less appealing to me.
So in closing it sounds like I"m starting to do exactly what you told me not to...burn out.
Hi ataloss, can I ask how you got so many FMs?
Because everyday we have 4-5 projects all filled apart from the FMs, it's the only thing that has brought us to a crawl.
I'd like to think it's about more than just completing projects.
The bigger issue is having enough members online at the same time to actually do stuff together.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
First and foremost, the quantities needed for each tier are uniform whether you're in a small fleet or a large fleet. If there were a way to determine the quantities based on members of record for that fleet, that would be ideal (even if it's possible at all). It really is about the journey and not the destination.
Secondly, there are a great number of people who are able to be online playing STO all day long everyday. No matter the age or circumstances, those select individuals simply have more time to do the missions and learn the secrets of success. A great many players, though, are older and simply cannot be online all the time. Be it because they work full-time, go to school full-time, or a combination of the 2.
Society, in general, is all about the "me, me, me" and "I want it now" mentality. STO is no exception. I get a real kick out of some who claim "it's easy to beat the ESTF" or "it's easy to build a T5 base". You obviously are not looking at things objectively. What's easy for some is a real challenge for others. Instead of saying "quit your whining", why don't you offer some legitimate suggestions on how to do better with what they have and what to work towards. We don't all have the ability to be on as long or as often. We don't always have the size in our fleets as you do. We all do the best we can with the time we have available. While there are always whiners, there's also some who are extremely helpful and I salute those that have learned enough and decide to pass on what they've learned. You do more good for this community than you can possibly know.
For those that will read this and begin to bash, I pity you that you've obviously not read the entire post. Your reaction speaks volumes.
I am in Omega, Inc Fleet. We are working hard to completing our T3 base. We will make it and then set our sights on T4. We will never stop. We will continue to work when we are able as hard as we can.
Hence confirming my statement... It's under development, meaning it is not.
I understand your point and it's perfectly valid. Many fleets do regard newcomers as insignificant compared to veteran members, especially if the fleet is High Tier and those older members have contributed scores of resources. This is where it boils down to who's in charge. Majority of fleets large and small are commandeered by players who have rigid rules, an inflexible course and dictatorial qualities, arising from the insecurities they've faced. That's why our fleet is unique, because I'm not like that and I don't lead my fleet in that fashion. Sure, many a leader may pay lip service to members and preach sermons on and off the forums, but I did not found my fleet to be at the whim of any single member, including myself. That's why I'm not the only leader in it and all the original founders that I started the fleet with, are still with me.
It all boils down to approach. If I wanted to disregard new members I could, but that's not the way I want to run my fleet. I don't spend 5 hours a day of my playtime personally talking to players in an effort to find lasting members just to shove them aside once I get them. That's why it says on my fleet roster comment: "You can contact me anytime for game help." I understand your bad experiences, I've had them as well, but I'm not like them and I won't stand for that in the fleet I lead. All members in my fleet are equally helped by myself and all have equal opportunity to bear responsibilities according to their capability, regardless when they join. That won't change whether we remain where we are or become Tier-5.
I say this to you and your fleetmates: I know how hard a climb you have ahead, tier 1 is a long way from where you want to be. Regardless, if you want to keep pushing as far as you're able, you have my full support. I have that same dream for my fleet which I strongly fight for and far be it for me to decide which dream is right or wrong; that's not my job. My job is care for the community I have and see its members are comfortable so they remain with me in years ahead. I value people, and since I'm an ordinary type person, not one of the showoff ostentatious types that people tend to flock to, I value more the people who do choose to stay with me.
So if on the other hand you decide a more active fleet is less taxing and will enhance the game experience for you and your fellow members, our door is open for you. You can come in anytime. I can assure you from here, you'll be a welcome part of our prospering family.
True. Projects are second to people.
Lucky thing for now is really there isn't a lot of content that the elite fleet gear is required. You can still buy good stuff off the exchange, like XI blues and what not.
If the difficulty of endgame stuff were actually challenging to the point of success was not measured in faster completion, but actually not failing then fleet gear would be more of a requirement.
I don't use fleet gear for anything but my pvp ships.
There is a way to base it off of Fleet Size but Cryptic needs to think outside of the box to deliver it. Now all they need to do is create a NEW field for fleet databases.... MAXMembers - this is the maximum number of members (Accounts not Characters) recorded in a fleet in the last 3 months...6 months...whatever. Now come up with a real static number (as stated before in this thread) and have a factor based on the MAXMembers number. What this does is assuage Cryptic's fears that people will drop the large fleets just to get the cheaper costs...why, a fleet that did this would have to wait it out 3 or 6 months just to see the benefit.
Maybe they should rename the mine tiers as: T1, T3 and T5, and, I wonder how many of us would have bothered even starting, if they had published all the cost up front. Doing Fleet projects is like navigating a maze blindfold, and getting punched in the face every time you turn a corner!
As usual we can cover everything other than the Fleet Marks, that is going to take quite some time.
The whole point of the fleet system was to take time.
Its also been made pretty clear that they don't intend to fix the bug that fleets can buy from eachothers stores, so there is no downside to being in a fleet that is behind, or small, or whatever.
Also you seem to not even know what season you are playing.
Is it 9 already?
Season 8 is the season that is coming out later this year. So we are in the LoR season.
That would be me. I can grind a thousand marks a day, easy. I have a LTS, so it made sense for me to start a solo fleet. Looking at a year for a tier 5 shipyard, and then who knows for the rest. Something to do with the game other than kill stuff - create stuff. I don't really see the need for a starbase above tier 1. Lots of good info in this thread, fun read.
With Dev comments from the Trek Convention Panel were an insult to Small Fleets, with them basically saying "join Big Fleets for lewt". Then their lackluster promises to help small fleets (which obviously the Dilithium Mine wasn't).
You got the Daily Grind that has burnt people out. People bankrump of Dilithium, due everything asking for Dilithium, the Abusers and AFKers in the Fleet Mark Events, and of course the lure of Big Fleets and not having to do work, really has killed Small Fleets.
Cryptic really doesn't care about small fleets.
My comiserations for both your fleets.
Cryptic do not care about the sise of any fleet, just that they soak up Dilithium and encourage people to buy Zen with RL money. They dont care if any individual works hard or if they ride on the backs of hundreds of others, their business is selling Zen. Full Stop.
The problem is, that as more and more small fleets fold and big fleets become even more prominent, they will adjust the costs of all new content to "be appropriate for" maxed sise fleets. I.E. the next fleet project will cost a lot more!
Call me Cassandra, but mark my words, when big fleets are the only business in town, they will still want to drain away everyones Dilithium, they cant do that just with the price of the goodies.
"Devs fix it!!!!" is not a solution.
No such thing.
'Free Zen'
'No Such Thing'
I have a lifetime subscription that gives me 500 free zen each month.