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A way to solve the desire to pilot T1/T2 ships
jestersage
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
Let's flip the problem on its head: Most people want a T5 Miranda/NX/1701 because they want to be able to bring the thing into an STF/PvE queue without bothering others.
Instead of telling them to "do it in your own queue" here's a suggestion: create a "kirk-STF" queue. Essentially, an elite STF that restrict player to T1/T2 ships in public queue. For incentive, it should have even more rewards then your eSTF - after all, if they can do eSTF in a T2 ship, then they are pro, and deserve extra rewards.
Of course, in order for that to work, the actual level's difficulty must not change.
Thoughts? I am certain CBS did not say no to having a T2 ship fighting borgs.
Instead of telling them to "do it in your own queue" here's a suggestion: create a "kirk-STF" queue. Essentially, an elite STF that restrict player to T1/T2 ships in public queue. For incentive, it should have even more rewards then your eSTF - after all, if they can do eSTF in a T2 ship, then they are pro, and deserve extra rewards.
Of course, in order for that to work, the actual level's difficulty must not change.
Thoughts? I am certain CBS did not say no to having a T2 ship fighting borgs.
Post edited by jestersage on
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butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Example: Take that T1 Miranda / BOP from the beginning, and upgrade to a set of possible Cruiser / BOP stat packages for the new tier, while still keeping that same ship.
What this does:
Lets players keep the ship they've always wanted to use regardless of promotion.
Upgrade the "stats" and values to the new tier.
Cuts down on the increasing clutter of ships despite using the same model.
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Choosing a new "package" for your ship at a new rank / tier (every 10 levels, for example) should be free for the first change. Subsequent changes could cost C-Store points. Every major update could give 1 free "respec" for ship packages.
It would be a win-win. You retain playing of the ship you always wanted. Cryptic gets you to spend C-Store points for respeccing.
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In Star Trek, the famed captains retained command of their ships for the duration of the show, unless it was destroyed. Otherwise, Kirk & Picard would have continued being captains on their beloved ships. There was no mistaking Kirk & Picard called their respective ships "theirs" and were very passionate about that... and STO captains should be given the opportunity to call the ship theirs for their characters' careers.
Let that Starfleet captain make his career as a ship's captain on that beloved ship of his.
buy buy buy!
cause sometimes its party time!
Rather than ask the devs to create a queue that will benefit a small minority. A better idea would be to create a channel something like PublicKIRKSTF where this minority could actually form their own queues and do what they want away from the other public members in the queue.
I would love this option, however unless they made those Boff, console, weapon slots, etc cost the player ZEN just like buying a new ship does then they would not be making as much money from ship sales so its unlikely they will like this idea.
I love the idea of a complete refit for you ship, where you actually put it into one of those spacedock things like we saw the Enterprise in, in Star Trek the Motion Picture at the beginning of that movie and then the player spends his or her dilithium or ZEN on the upgrades.
Love the idea.
Or, set up a few (3-4) PvE options designed for T1 - T2 ships, entering which temporarily lowers the player's combat level (much like beaming down to Nimbus III -- so you see "You are now fighting at Lieutenant Commander rank" or whatever when you enter this combat zone). This mechanic already exists in-game; it should take very little work to code, say, "Klingon Fleet Alert (Easy)" (and a few others) so that entering automatically lowers the participant's combat level temporarily (because the mechanic already exist in-game). The most work involved (since this mechanic does not currently exist in-game) would be in coding it to only allow T1 and T2 ships to enter.
give every single ship the same number of weapon slots with the option to move them around your ship with port and starboard firing arcs available.
similar to Starfleet command.
However cryptic wont do this because they will spout some garbage about cbs saying it isn't cannon while still providing suliban trade ships, borg officers and any number of non canon stuff into the game.
A Vice Admiral of critical importance to the Federation, while leading a fleet of ships into battle with The Borg, would not be caught dead in a 200 year old ship unless he/she wanted to end up dead. When facing off against a situation that involves the Borg building a temporal vortex to send Borg ships back in time to alter the past...the only use a Constitution, Miranda, or NX would involve sending hundreds or thousands of them to literally CLOG up the Temporal vortex with junk and garbage, much like you would clog a toilet after a bean burrito party.
If you want to bring T1 ships into an ESTF...you make a private queue. I want Cryptic to work on bug fixes and stability, not implementing niche scenarios.
No "Kirk STFs"
No T1 ships in ESTF (I will personally report you for this if I ever see it)
No niche queues.
Also, someone mentioned only allowing T1 or T2 ships to enter a queue. I dunno if you people realize this or not, but a while back, this functionality was actually patched out of the game with the introduction of active Shuttle and Active Starship. Before this, in order to queue for Vault (A scenario which only allowed Shuttles to queue) we had to have a shuttle as our active ship (which meant going back to drydock and switching from our big power ship to our shuttle)
What you are proposing is the re-implementation of a horribly inefficient and time wasting mechanic so you can fly terrible ships around and shoot COLORS at the Borg. If you wanna shoot colors at the Borg in a Miranda, or a Nova class ship...make a private queue, and FAIL HORRIBLY! Alternatively, go play Bridge Commander, learn how to mod, and you can make a T5 fleet ship that is plated in Gold Pressed Latinum and fires Uber beams that can one-shot a Cube. Stop trying to make STO the game where everything can do everything cause everything is everything. Ideas like the T5 Miranda, NX, or Constitution are going to ruin this game.
The only way I will ever accept the T5 Miranada is if it goes in the C-Store for 10000 Zen. Perhaps then, with all the wannabe T5 Miranda Captains, Cryptic can start to pay for more employees to help with fixing bugs. We can stimulate the economy in a way that actually works.
Suliban and Liberated Borg are canon...plus how sfc works is the bigger the ship the more weapons it has...so ships like the Miranda and connie would be in the dust because they're small. If we went by SFC then the Oddy would tear a Connie or Miranda apart no matter what.
"What is wrong" is that I'd very much like to be able to fly my favourite Trek ship in the game. I currently use an Armitage as the closest available thing. Would an NX fit the setting? Perhaps not - as you say it is an outdated look and underpowered. This was a good argument in late 2010, but consider the general state of the game now:
(1) Ship parity is already utterly, utterly borked in that (at T5) a B'rel class BOP is a near-peer competitor to a Scimitar. Cryptic have gone with a model in which all T5 ships are (relatively) equal meaning that tiny frigates and giant carriers have to be on some sort of balance. Heck, one of the most powerful ships in game - the Jem'Hadar attack ship - is a tiny frigate which relied on swarm tactics on TV. In this context, a replica NX or refitted Connie are not more ridiculous that what's already in-game. This is actually the critical argument IMO - the game model is already to allow players to fly what they like at endgame, provided they pay the costs, regardless of the size and canonical capabilities of the ship.
(2) In terms of immersion, we already have admirals in 22nd / 23rd century uniforms. Not to mention the abundance of characters in mercenary gear, formal wear, or outfits better suited to a seedy nightclub than ESD.
(3) Starfleet is already desperate enough to be fielding Cardassian and Ferengi war surplus as top-of-the-line vessels. Why not field the mothball or training fleets?
(4) Timeships - 29th century vessels "de-fitted" to 25th century standards - are already in game.
(5) The Klingon and Romulan factions already have playable (fleet!) T5 ships from the same eras - the Somraw raptor, D7, and 22nd century Rom BoP (I forget the name).
Personally - a Connie or NX, which at least *looks* like a Federation ship, is less obtrusive in ESD than the swarms of Borg, Cardassian, Dominion, Ferengi and future ships that now lurk around. Players *can* choose to fly them at T5, but simply can't do endgame team actions in good conscience. All we're asking is to take ships that are already in game and be allowed to use them for endgame.
So at this stage, given all the other utterly bonkers stuff that's in the game from "rule of cool", the only reasons for not having T5 NX / Connie are CBS intransigence or utter spite to the playerbase. Given it would have zero development cost I actually believe this is a CBS issue.
Personally, I don't particularly care about the lack of a T5 Constitution. It wouldn't be my ship of choice even if it existed, as I don't fly cruisers. Nor would I be irrationally offended at the sight of them flying around as some people claim they would. I do believe it would probably sell pretty good, but I suppose the people making these decisions must have their reasons for excluding it.
But I do think it's a bit insulting to say the Constitution is such a bad design it couldn't possibly be upgraded to a 25th century standard when all these other ships can.
As for number two they already said that starfleet's new dress code is loose at best.
The Cardassian and Ferengi vessels come from the Lobi Crystals Consortium's salvage efforts
I find the timeships dumb as well
The romulan republic is desperate enough to field whatever is still in one piece and the Chancellor Martok himself commands a bird of prey
There's huge potential for treating your ship like another player character, allowing it to be 'refitted' and leveled up. Huge micro-transaction potential for respecs, and bonus unlocks etc.
There's nothing wrong with Constitution or NX design, it's just an old ship. If it were built in 2409 there's no reason to assume it wouldn't be just as valuable when fitted with new technology.
We didn't get rid of the wheel when steel or rubber were discovered. It was remixed and made better.
Also another tier of 'Challenge' STF's which restrict ship/weapon types to increase difficulty/reward is a great idea, even if you ignore the whole 'ships should be upgradable' issue.
@trollface ~ if you have such disdain for pugs, make your own private games hypocrite.
1. Vice Admirals are of critical importance to the Federation.
This I have to disagree with. After all, we have more Admirals than we do fleets! Vice Admirals are the new redshirts. They just get to choose their own color of uniform. But seriously, joking aside. Ordinarily I would agree that an admiral or other flag officer should get the biggest, shiniest ship in a fleet, as that is usually the command ship. However, given the current rank structure of the game, and the lack of ability to command fleets, that isn't the case. Also, in canon, admirals did not always have the biggest shiniest ships either. For example, at least one Admiral in TNG, Admiral Alynna Nechayev, used an Excelsior class, USS Gorkon as their flagship, despite Enterprise's presence in the same event. While I agree that a Constitution or Miranda class starship isn't worthy of a Vice-Admiral, there should be a way for a Vice Admiral to use lower tier ships and keep them competative. Another example of this is the canon Galaxy-X, which Admiral Riker used in an alternate timeline as his personal flagship, having saved her from mothballs.
2. No Niche Qeues:
Given the current state of the game, I agree. I would rather see the time and energy spent repairing the game, fixing things, etc, before moving on to creating specialty qeues. Right now, private ques are a solution, and are perfectly functional.
3. Autolevel Qeues:
This is a good idea, but see #2. It would be a good solution in the long term, if this sort of thing was approved by CBS.
I'm sure I had more in mind, but I'm still on cup-o-coffee #1, and there is too much blood in my caffeiene stream. I'll check back later >.>
If someone wants to fly in a T5 Connie, let them - it does not stop you playing the game, it does not stop you using private queues with your T5 only friends.
You enjoy the game your way, and let others enjoy it their way.
Did you lot not watch the TV shows? did you not learn from all those moral lessons?
_ We have too much vice-admiral, the level based rank should be limited to Captain that woumd make for something coherent. Actually we have a mexican army, so why not having vice-Amiral in Miranda class.
The solution for flying low level ship :
_ instead of making the instance 5 players, make it 25 tiers ships. So you will either get one reffited Galaxy class (T5) or 5 miranda (T1). And every one will be happy. This will work in pvp too.
Really I think that basing the cap of a mission on player number is wrong. No wargame does that. The cap should be base on point value (this time this is what SFC does).
Skanvak Drakken
http://lamaisondesdrakkens.clan-box.com/index.php
It would still make since to have max 10 players though because the ships are supposed to be weaker compared to the Borg.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
25 players might be too high because of the queue wait time.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
There will not be 25 players but 25 slots, and a player coming with a T5 will take 5 slots, so 5 T5 ships will still be 5 players. The queue should launch at 21 slots filled and accept more (the requirement to start at 21 is that getting exactly the last number of slot can be tricky).
Skanvak Drakken
http://lamaisondesdrakkens.clan-box.com/index.php
How do you know its a small minority? I would think it's a large proportion of the community that would like to use those types of ships at end game, just only a minority use the forums.
Yes, I meant 25 slots. Allowing the STP to start at a lower number of slots filled and accepting more players would be good.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
The Consitution-class neck was deemed to be a very bad design because it was too long and therefore too vulnerable to attack (as shown in ST:II). So were the struts for the exact same reason. That's why the the Excelsior-class was designed: much thicker, lower neck and the struts were very close to the hull. The struts and nacelles of the Constitution-class could also not withstand the stress of speed in excess of warp 7 (although for some reason they often went beyond warp 10 in TOS
So even if all the ships had the same number of slots (which wouldn't be possible to start with) the old girls just couldn't take it. Just like trying to intstall a warp engine and phasers on a space shuttle...:cool:
It would be significantly easier to just add an additional queue that checks for ship tiers than it would be to redesign the entire system to allow for 'logistical capacity'.
Both of these scenarios are already allowed for by private queues as stated earlier. If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Those kinds of suggestions imo, ignore OP's issue, which is to make older ships more useful as the game progresses. That encompasses more than STF's, it plays into missions and PvP as well.
As i suggested this can still accomplished through c-store unlock profits, as to not necessarily make one-time purchase ships irrelevant. The benefit of a T4 or T5 ship, is you don't have to waste Zen on the unlocks for a T1 or T2 etc.
EDIT: I re-read this and I'm sorry it's so dismissive of the previous ideas. I would really like to see 'logistical capacity' taken into account, I would say it adds a considerable dimension to realism. I just feel in any game design case, the path of least resistance is going to be the preferable one.
Also in regards to c-store unlocks for T1-T2 ships etc. I would be perfectly fine if these ships are only upgradable to say the 2nd best tier. C-Store and Fleet ships I suppose should still outclass them.
1. Aesthetics is no excuse. Pretty is as pretty does. What matters is the underlying technology, as far as the game goes.
2. Starfleet was commissioning Mirandas, Oberths, and Excelsior Class starships well into the 24th Century. With current technologies within their hulls. Just like the Klingons with their B'rels and K't'ingas, as you pointed out. So Starfleet does tend to stick with what works. In that case, where are the Tier 5 Mirandas and Oberths?
Aesthetics is not just about looks. In fact, I was not talking about the look of the ship at all in my post. The aesthetics I was talking about was changing the design every few years. Everything humans make has their designs change constantly. Cars, electronics, architecture, and tons of other stuff change over the years. Tons of people are appalled by what they wore and what hairstyle they used 20 years ago. This constant need for change is not necessarily evident in alien races. Attributing certain human values to aliens is ridiculous. So if a human would more likely design a new ship to accommodate the new technology while an alien race would fit the new technology into the old design with only minor changes to the actual design.
Ships have an effective design life. The shuttle had a design life for 30 years and likely went through numerous revisions to the design over the years. Eventually, it gets to the point where it can't keep up with the needs of the people using it and the new technology available. Sp even though Mirandas, Oberths, and Excelsiors were being commissioned in the 24th Century, they were approaching the end of their design life so they couldn't be improved as much as new ship designs that are at the start of their design life. Take a computer from 15 years ago and add new technology to it. There will be a noticeable benefit to the computer, but it won't have as much as an improvement to a computer from 3 years ago improved with today's technology.
So there are two possible situations, either the Constitution, NX, and Miranda have already been upgraded with current technology and all they reached is Tier 1 so a Tier 1 NX would completely destroy a TOS Constitution or upgrading these ships would just allow them to reach Tier 3 or Tier 4. There is no possible way that a Constitution, NX, or Miranda with current technology would be able to compete against a Tier 5 ship like the Sovereign, Prometheus, or Vesta and actually have Tier 5 versions of the Constitution, NX, and Miranda would throw out the last bit of Star Trek realism in this game. So we might as well have Tier 5 Phoenixes, Tier 5 Space Shuttles, Tier 5 16th Century Galleons, and Tier 5 Canoes.
Seperate 10-man versions of STF's with T1/T2 vessels get's my vote!