I've heard about the form letters you send out. What was the name of your fleet department that handled that? Fascinating to what lengths you do role-play.
Why don't you spit out the next lies that you want to tell? It's because you want to use racial slurs against us and pretend you have some justification. I can't see any reason why this thread should remain open. It's clear that you're going to discriminate against my race.
Look at that wall of text. Are you tired of trolling the Starfleet Dental recruitment thread?
You might want to actually read what I wrote instead of just jumping to conclusions like usual. As far as your comment of "trolling" your recruitment site that was a legitimate discussion despite some miscommunication on both ends. How easily you forget to mention that I was also pointing out that only a few rogue members of your fleet were talking things beyond acceptable limits and that you're entire fleet shouldn't be punished by the community for the actions of some. The point of the Discussion on your recruitment thread, specifically with Nabreeki was that negatively effecting the gameplay of other players is against the TOS and was trying to suggest better methods of testing if the party amplifiers in that case were causing unintentional side effects in game aspects where they should not be enabled for use. Somehow that was misconstrued as attempting to "troll" It was also a legitimate question asking what the proper procedure outlined for your fleet was if a player had an issue with someone from your fleet and the party amplifier was just as an example.
Three times now I have either spoken neutrally or even in a beneficial way towards your fleet and it continues to be misconstrued and rudely responded too. I highly suggest you take more time to actually read posts thoroughly and make sure you fully understand the posters intent before responding to posts. Not everyone is on a holy quest to destroy and you need to realize that.
Speaking personally for myself, I have ADHD and sometimes when posting especially if I get distracted things don't always translate from thinking to what I mean very well so if you ever have a question of intent or meaning with any of my posts feel free to ask and I'll either elaborate or clarify.
My satire and trolling takes many forms so I apologize for confusing you, but it is all done in the spirit of how off the wall this all is. In all truth and seriousness I am very pro-Dental, and also pro-RP, I am very against public ERP for sure as your fleet helpfully points out, go to yuor private bridges FFS! My wife and little sister play MMOs like WoW and are always having awful things said to them at Goldshire and elsewhere so I appreciate you guys keeping this game acceptable for all ages.
Ah, that old piece of misinformation. Of course, warp core breaches and projected quantum singularities in non-combat zones exclusively targeted people whose Defiants were trying to put their noses into the aft shuttlebays of Sovereigns.:rolleyes: When the game started they only invited ERPers to their bridges to gank them. And the instance of New Romulus where they blocked the transporter access was actually the meeting place of the bi-weekly Pcon. Do you really assume people believe that TRIBBLE?
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Ah, that old piece of misinformation. Of course, warp core breaches and projected quantum singularities in non-combat zones exclusively targeted people whose Defiants were trying to put their noses into the aft shuttlebays of Sovereigns.:rolleyes: When the game started they only invited ERPers to their bridges to gank them. And the instance of New Romulus where they blocked the transporter access was actually the meeting place of the bi-weekly Pcon. Do you really assume people believe that TRIBBLE?
I have watched and thoroughly laughed at all these things on youtube. I can't thank them enough for their shenanigans and I do think some people should go buy a sense of humor. I got a quarter, they ain't expensive.
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
For the sake of argument, let's assume the OP's point is valid. That would mean the developers intentionally made an item that could hijack another player's account and force it to dance (I can't even argue this with a strait face), that would mean that the devs are the ones behind the attack and are therefore the ones to bear the brunt of any legal liability as the chief architects of this harassment conspiracy.
EXCEPT NO, THE OP'S ARGUMENT IS INVALID, AS EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THIS THREAD.
Using a disco ball next to someone is such a ridiculous claim that your case would easily be laughed out of court. Meanwhile, people who dislike the disco ball have gone on record threatening to kill people who used the disco ball on them.
You might want to actually read what I wrote instead of just jumping to conclusions like usual. As far as your comment of "trolling" your recruitment site that was a legitimate discussion despite some miscommunication on both ends. How easily you forget to mention that I was also pointing out that only a few rogue members of your fleet were talking things beyond acceptable limits and that you're entire fleet shouldn't be punished by the community for the actions of some. The point of the Discussion on your recruitment thread, specifically with Nabreeki was that negatively effecting the gameplay of other players is against the TOS and was trying to suggest better methods of testing if the party amplifiers in that case were causing unintentional side effects in game aspects where they should not be enabled for use. Somehow that was misconstrued as attempting to "troll" It was also a legitimate question asking what the proper procedure outlined for your fleet was if a player had an issue with someone from your fleet and the party amplifier was just as an example.
Three times now I have either spoken neutrally or even in a beneficial way towards your fleet and it continues to be misconstrued and rudely responded too. I highly suggest you take more time to actually read posts thoroughly and make sure you fully understand the posters intent before responding to posts. Not everyone is on a holy quest to destroy and you need to realize that.
Speaking personally for myself, I have ADHD and sometimes when posting especially if I get distracted things don't always translate from thinking to what I mean very well so if you ever have a question of intent or meaning with any of my posts feel free to ask and I'll either elaborate or clarify.
Let me quote you a portion of what you said in the recruiting thread.
Starfleet Dental is the epitome of evil in STO and the bad reputation is extremely well deserved. There I said it and I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE and here why you should care.
You go on to try to justify a middle ground. Look behaving like this is not really welcome at all. You go on to **** up our recruitment thread. If you want to ask questions just keep it simple as rambling on the way you have looks like a veiled attack.
I response negatively to the way you have addressed us because it is inappropriate when dealing with people publicly. Your first sentence is an attack, and in the recruitment section of all places. If you don't want a negative response you may want to consider when you should and shouldn't post.
Due to some recent incedents in game I've finally found what works.
The number of people the purpously engage in ingame harassment and cyber bullting of players in STO is remarkably small.. Honestly no more then a few dozen players out of thousands. Unfortunatly thy have impact all out of purportion to thier numbers.
You Can DO Something About It!
Most typically effected are those attempting Role Play activities in public areas where the the typical cyber bully will attempt to disrupt your role play activities through the use of "party poppers" from STO anniversery events and the more recent Subspace party ball, or even just the fire extigueshers from the fed side augument mission series. The persona in question will repeatedly spam the effects of these devices in the vicentity of those trying to Role Play with the direct intent to "Drive them away"
If the victims of this abusive behavior engage in any attempt as reasonable discourse the parties involved will play word games to get the victims to loose thier cool (which wont be hard...its a natural human reaction) and WILL capture any and all text in public and private chat and file a GM behavior complaint against the very people they are harrassing. They will use the rules of the TOS against the players they are bullying.
This has been going on in game by the same small group for over a 2 years now if not longer.. And folks, it's always the same group of players doing this.
It's time for this sort of behavior to end.
To bring it to and end, we, the majority over the cyber bullies, are going to have to go the extra mile and DOCUMENT this activitie when it happens.
Now, we are told that when you post a GM ticket for harassment a game screen shot goes with it. I do not know it this is true.. Perhapes if cryptic did a vidio game blog showing us the process I'd be likely to belive this. But I personally have posted numerous GM behavior tickets since launch... some have been acted apon.. other apparently not. And I'm pretty carefull to hold of on posting such a ticket untill the behavior of the perpatrators is clearly into the violation of the Terms of Service. There is also reason to belive that thier might be someone on the development teams who's has been effectivly sanctioning the activities of this small in game group. I have been personally told they do... I am also aware the some folks external to STO who take part in STO social activities have been effectivly blackmailed into permitting members of this small group access to thier IRC chat channels or risk having this group stomp all over thier in game activities. It's pretty much crossing the line in a criminal act. But the old internet bug a boo of no real names, no real information being provided protects there persons from being held responsible for thier activities. The guilty get protected.. it's not right, but its the way it is.
(no, I not supposed to name them..it's possibly a violation of forum posting rules. So i won't but if you've been round the social scene in STO you likely allready know who they are!)
End of Opening Statement.
............................... Part 2, What to do! ................................
preperation:
You need a couple of tools. I strongly recommand the use of an external screen capture utility. I use a little freeware gem thats been around since before window called Infranview, for the capture of still images, and FRAP's for motion video capture.
The games own screen capture does not show text or user names.
If your going to RP, try to have some buddies in the area, If your getting victimized by the cyberbullies have them DOCUMENT it also. Vid capture, screen shots, and of cours, file GM harrassment tickets.. The more that get filed, the sooner action will be taken.. Its very easy for the GM's to over look a couple harassment tickets out of the hundreds they look at in a single day on the job. If how ever they recieve a couple dozen all concerning the SAME person they tend to pay attention right then.
Now, when you file a Harassment ticket/Violation of TOS you must target the offender, right click on thier portrait which should be in the focus area at the top center of your display) and select the appopriate entry from the pull down that opens.
As soon as you do that, punch the "print screen" key on your keyboard (soma one you use for in game captures), ALT+TAB to shell toyour destop, open your image viewing util of choice, create a new image, and paste your capture to it, and then save to a folder (i suggest one on your desktop)
Do this about every 5 min of real time. Infranview will autimaticly timestamp the file and give it a unique name. Opening a FRAP's session should also be done at this time. 5 min of FRAPS if that much should be all you need, and of course be sure to save the file.
All of the people present should be doing the same thing. You will get an email from PWE/Cryptic customer support where they will give you an opportunity to replay. Thats where the screen shots, and video captures come in, and where you get to have YOUR say.
...It may be difficult but try to keep it clean...
Do NOT deleate your video capatures and screen sh0ots.. Save them onto a CD_RW or DVD-RW.. if you have a fleet site with online strage availible.. copy them there..
This is the critical part.. Getting rid of these folks is not going to happen over night by any means. They are orginzed, they have infiltrated Role Fleets with the specific intent of gathering information on when said groups plan to have a public role play session so that they can target and grief the RP.
SO here is the kicker... YOU out number THEM by a significant amount.. a VERY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT. your numbers are well into the thousands, their's are at best around 50, if that many. The folks doing this are quite well orginzae, It would be but for thier activities admirablel... But, they make use of multiplule accounts. They quite possibly will have anywhere from 3-5 computers up and operating at the same time. They are quite serious about what they consider thier mission, and they have crossed the line into what amounts to a criminal conspiricy to harass, defame and other wise inconvenience the play and enjoyment of this game by anyone enguaged in any type of in game role play. And they are absultutly willing to go after anyone who might try to stand up to thier activities in game, or even ask them to simply stop. After two years the group in question has harassed thousand of players. Cryptic is a SMALL studio with a limited staff, and even with the addition support staff from PWI they just do not have sufficient "Boots on the Ground" to properly police this disruptive activity.
If you and your in game friends and aquaintences want to NOT have to endure this sort of garbage your going to have to get pro-activly involved in self policing and covering each other. The more complaints, and the more evidence of the activities produced and submitted to cryptic and PWI, the sooner the people in question will have thier accounts shut down. Up to and possibly including the service provider that thier web site is on refusing service.
Turn about is fair play in this case.
If your the victim of in game ongoing harassment, or witness to the same ACT, ACT NOW. KEEP ACTING. Do depend on Cryptic and PWI to do it for you. They cannot.
(come on folks, they can't even keep on top of on the game bugs much less this sort of thing. They just don't have the number of people to do it)
I've been witness to this stuff, and been on the recieving end of it for years in STO. It's gotten a little old. They do no have any right in letter or word to do this to you or others. It is a violation of Cryptic and PWI's own terms of service for them to do so. It crosses the line into criminal activity. They are having thier fun at your expence. And thier "fun" is simply bullying... They are a gang engaged in forcing thier view and will on the majority, and they take advantage of the providers inability to be everywhere at one, and the communities own lack of orginization to combat this sort of activity. They're quite smug about it, arrogant even, and belive not unjustifiably concidering how long its been going on that no one can touch them.
They Are Wrong.
I touched them.. I had help doing it, but they got touched. On Saturdey the 6th of July the group decided decided it was time to "teach me a lesson" on the dance floor at the Risa summer event by purpously blocking over my avatar with thier own..there were 5-to 6 of them present..one of which was a dual box account avatar.
(obvious by the fact it just stood thier after the rest of them one by one went "poof" with no beam out effect. A sure sign of being forcibly dis-connected from the game.)
In a very very short time span a great many tickets, froma great many users, were filed documenting what they were doing..it took about a half hour or so but I and others are quite certain they got a half hour, to an hour, to up to a 24 hour ban-hammer dropped on them by the night shift GM over at PWI who was monitoring the game. The group in question will keep engaging in these activities, and have done so since then...especially thier "leader" who tryed to do it to me some more the following day.. and got 4-8 complains registered against him by players in game when he did so.
What this proves is you can fight, and you CAN WIN! You do not have to be a victim!
Consider this a form of social PvP... and remember, they don't play by the rules.. and they don't play nice. I do not think that there is any place for this kind of behavior in any MMO, much less one based on Star Trek.
(And I play Klingon for crying out loud.. might explain why I have been going after these folks.. I so love a good fight against an honorless, despicable opponent... really, it's a game, how real many opportunities am I going to get like THIS? WHOOHOO! I am so on them! Yea! Little so-and so just stuck thier hands into the mouth of a rabid targ this time! I'm actually having fun going after them.. Follow Me.. we got whop TRIBBLE to deliver to the worthy!)
SO step up.. they can be beat, and I proved they can be beat. and it's long over due for it to happen.
Most Cordially
Kui del Solima
aka
Uru-Ani
aka
Khemaraa Iron Hand of the Klingon Black Fleet (est.1990)
P.S> sorry for the typo's I get excited, I typo...I transpose, I get words out of order.. stuff happens.. its still pretty readable.
Rumored to be overheard in STO offices:
unnammed forum moderator: He's at it again Daniel, at least he's not after you this time!
Daniel Stahl: *frowns* Yep..
Sorry, ther's no way I was going to read all of that. Easy way to get rid of trolls ingame, just change your privacy settings in the looking for team menu, that way you can make yourself invisible to all but those on your friends list
One thing I don't remember seeing in all of the posts throughout the forums has been what polite attempts have people made in asking these individuals to cease their actions and their response. Maybe it's because I'm 32 and grew up in a time when if you had a problem with someone it was handled one on one, no BS, no weapons, no gang-ups, just two people settling up in whatever manner, and then it was done, forgotten, moved on from, and fixed.
Voicesdark... Your points are valid thoughyou did miss some of the Cyptic TOS though though, but thats quibbling.. and in your defnce.. there is an awefull lot of it!
The groups in question have been asked.. many many many times.. to leave folks alone, mostly politly. Doesn't seem to work. One of the tactic they pull is debating with the requester. Basicly trolling them on the spot to get them to break the TOS rules on the spot... it's an old tactic... it works in social situations in the real world to.
And I will give them this, they're pretty damd good it. But the one thing I have never ever seen them do is respect another players request to just be left alone. The moment they don't do this it crosses the line into the socially recognized definition of harassment (see previous post where i pointed out the difference between a criminal definition and a civil definition. One of the sadder lacks in today educational system is good many school systems no longer have civic's and government as a required subject through out all 3 to 4 years of high school. I learned the differences between criminal and civil law decades ago, and they have not changed. Not one little bit.
If the members of Dental and the rest of thier chums would respect other players desire to be left alone.. I would have never started this post thread. It wouldn't be an issue involving the yes indeed 3 fleets activities.
But, it simply has gone on for far to long.. And I've really never seen anyone go after them before. I got the time, and I got the will.... and thanks to them.... I got the ammo.
Please belive I'd rather not be doing this, but having started on this path, and put my reputation socially on the line. Yea, I'm doing it, I'm after them. It wouldn't be tolerated out side of a game, and there is no reason for it to be tolerated inside a game...the setting may be virtual, and none of what you see on a screen is real... But the people behind the screen, they are real. And I have heard people reduced to tears in voice chat after dealing with these folks. I've held a lot of virtual hands, and the harm they've cause is real, absolutly real. Its a game, if you want to beat someone up take it to PvP.. and if they don't want to PvP *tsk* to bad... you don't get to do it. There simply is no licence in STO or any other mmo to go around interfearing with any one else game play. And a a good deal of game play in STO is social.. a lot of folk RP.. and they do indeed keep in away from public areas... mostly because of the 3 1/2 year run of STO Dental, and those like them have gone out of thier way to make life miserable for them. To Make gaming miserable for them.
I've seen em at Drozana go and start whipping out item effects, interposing thier avatar over other players who might have doing roleplaying, but were not doing it in public chat, or in any of the public channels... and if some one should say local or via a /tell "hey guys, thats irritating, and more then a bit distracting, could you stop please?" What they do is trash talk the person that said it and then proceed to interpose thier avatars over the avatar of the objector..
If that does not fit the definition, the socially recognized definition of harassing and bulling of other players then apparently it must be impossible to bully and harass another player.
My opinion, which is as valid as anyone else is that it is harassment and bullying, and it not acceptable.. I'm gonna shorten this post a bit by not cutting and pasting in the specific points of the TOS they are violating time and again. They like to play rules lawyer a great deal, but the reality is the game GM's function as judges for the game concerning behavior
and they judge a violation of the TOS not only apon the letter of the wording of the TOS, but the spirit of it. And there is some open wording thier.. But if the GM"s say its a violation, its a violation, and they are under zero legal obligation to explain them selves.
Same rule applies to Forum moderators.. If they say your broke the rules, and delete a post or close a thread, then guess what? You broke the rules and that is that. argument over.
The dabats in this thread of who's right, who's wrong, who's the perp, who's the injured party are actually, immateral. They are not going to set the standards of behavior or determine what is or is not acceptable. The GM's are going to set that standard by the letter and spirit of the TOS.
I'm sure that there are a few that will point a finger at me (yes me!) and say "Your not consistent!" Of course I'm not, I'm human.. and this is a social arena, and the game is called "Politcs" influencing others to ones point of view.
My point of view.. What Dental and company are doing is wrong. it's harmfull. It's mean. It needs to stop. And if they cannot stop them selves, then we the players have every single right to ask the the GM's stop them for us! And the GM's can stop them. There are reporting tools in place, but the reality is most player don't know how to use them effectivly. My attempt to educate my fellow players on how to do so has really really upset some folks. (mostly the guilty) Why, they may suddenly find that having thier particularly objectionable form of fun at other players expense in no longer tolerated. That is my "War" aim.. Thats my vicotory condidtions. If I get sufficient folk educated how how to chop thier activities off at the knees . Getting them perma banned and thier fleet holding (if any exist) deleted because thier fleet no longer exists would definatly be a nice bonus, and would certainly put the message out loud and clear as to what will be tolerated, and what will not.
Thanks for chiming in on this... Your opinion is important!
That would be the Ministry of Peace and Prosperity, our stalwart ambassadors to the masses of Star Trek Online. Without their diligence, we might have collapsed under massed slander and vitriol from hateful RPists long ago.
Incidentally, since tensions appear to be running high in this thread, I have taken the liberty of posting the form in question for all to use, if they feel the have a legitimate complaint to take up with the humble forces of Dear Leader. Please forward your completed paperwork to Nbreeki@nabreeki.
OMG thank you, I haven't laughed so hard in years.
But the one thing I have never ever seen them do is respect another players request to just be left alone. The moment they don't do this it crosses the line into the socially recognized definition of harassment (see previous post where i pointed out the difference between a criminal definition and a civil definition.
This is the second time I have asked you to stop harassing me in this thread. To date I have never seen you leave anyone alone. You repeatedly posted gibberish in our recruitment thread even though you were asked to stop. We are the victims of your repeated harassment.
Requesting that false tickets are filed against us when we are the victims of your harassment is completely inappropriate. The rules you have posted are there for the purpose of dealing with people like yourself.
Though I'm not much of a disco fan (Disco Inferno and September are the only songs I like), I support the quest to bring the love of disco to the world.
This just shows the "sucking in" power of virtual worlds. I'd respect such an initiative in real life, but in a videogame I find it silly.
Stop playing, start living.
I'd respect it if they were truly bullies but they are not. Playing with the parameters of the game makes them the best roleplayers ever not bullies. Period. If people don't believe what happens when people like Dental are absent, go to Goldshire on WoW as a female toon. You shall hear vile depravity that penetrates your ear with filth! Putrescent FILTH! The stuff that has been said to my sixteen year old sister was terrible.
Honestly, I want to see a Dental assault on Moon Guard server Goldshire in WoW. That place is in desperate need of fumigation and WoW nerds are oh so much more fun to troll and quicker to rage. It is also made of straw so it is quite flammable.
I feel Moon Guard server Pr0nshire is Starfleet Dental's ultimate raid content. From what I can gather from your mythology and what I have heard from the great and powerful Nabreeki, you would need great and unending Juche, as WELL as blessings of The Dear Leader to survive the Worgen infested bestiality layer that is that village in the woods.
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
get a chill pill and go outside more...srsly! You are embarrasing yourself...no need for a cyber bully there.
/thread
10char
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
Voicesdark... Your points are valid thoughyou did miss some of the Cyptic TOS though though, but thats quibbling.. and in your defnce.. there is an awefull lot of it!
The groups in question have been asked.. many many many times.. to leave folks alone, mostly politly. Doesn't seem to work. One of the tactic they pull is debating with the requester. Basicly trolling them on the spot to get them to break the TOS rules on the spot... it's an old tactic... it works in social situations in the real world to.
And I will give them this, they're pretty damd good it. But the one thing I have never ever seen them do is respect another players request to just be left alone. The moment they don't do this it crosses the line into the socially recognized definition of harassment (see previous post where i pointed out the difference between a criminal definition and a civil definition. One of the sadder lacks in today educational system is good many school systems no longer have civic's and government as a required subject through out all 3 to 4 years of high school. I learned the differences between criminal and civil law decades ago, and they have not changed. Not one little bit.
If the members of Dental and the rest of thier chums would respect other players desire to be left alone.. I would have never started this post thread. It wouldn't be an issue involving the yes indeed 3 fleets activities.
But, it simply has gone on for far to long.. And I've really never seen anyone go after them before. I got the time, and I got the will.... and thanks to them.... I got the ammo.
Please belive I'd rather not be doing this, but having started on this path, and put my reputation socially on the line. Yea, I'm doing it, I'm after them. It wouldn't be tolerated out side of a game, and there is no reason for it to be tolerated inside a game...the setting may be virtual, and none of what you see on a screen is real... But the people behind the screen, they are real. And I have heard people reduced to tears in voice chat after dealing with these folks. I've held a lot of virtual hands, and the harm they've cause is real, absolutly real. Its a game, if you want to beat someone up take it to PvP.. and if they don't want to PvP *tsk* to bad... you don't get to do it. There simply is no licence in STO or any other mmo to go around interfearing with any one else game play. And a a good deal of game play in STO is social.. a lot of folk RP.. and they do indeed keep in away from public areas... mostly because of the 3 1/2 year run of STO Dental, and those like them have gone out of thier way to make life miserable for them. To Make gaming miserable for them.
I've seen em at Drozana go and start whipping out item effects, interposing thier avatar over other players who might have doing roleplaying, but were not doing it in public chat, or in any of the public channels... and if some one should say local or via a /tell "hey guys, thats irritating, and more then a bit distracting, could you stop please?" What they do is trash talk the person that said it and then proceed to interpose thier avatars over the avatar of the objector..
If that does not fit the definition, the socially recognized definition of harassing and bulling of other players then apparently it must be impossible to bully and harass another player.
My opinion, which is as valid as anyone else is that it is harassment and bullying, and it not acceptable.. I'm gonna shorten this post a bit by not cutting and pasting in the specific points of the TOS they are violating time and again. They like to play rules lawyer a great deal, but the reality is the game GM's function as judges for the game concerning behavior
and they judge a violation of the TOS not only apon the letter of the wording of the TOS, but the spirit of it. And there is some open wording thier.. But if the GM"s say its a violation, its a violation, and they are under zero legal obligation to explain them selves.
Same rule applies to Forum moderators.. If they say your broke the rules, and delete a post or close a thread, then guess what? You broke the rules and that is that. argument over.
The dabats in this thread of who's right, who's wrong, who's the perp, who's the injured party are actually, immateral. They are not going to set the standards of behavior or determine what is or is not acceptable. The GM's are going to set that standard by the letter and spirit of the TOS.
I'm sure that there are a few that will point a finger at me (yes me!) and say "Your not consistent!" Of course I'm not, I'm human.. and this is a social arena, and the game is called "Politcs" influencing others to ones point of view.
My point of view.. What Dental and company are doing is wrong. it's harmfull. It's mean. It needs to stop. And if they cannot stop them selves, then we the players have every single right to ask the the GM's stop them for us! And the GM's can stop them. There are reporting tools in place, but the reality is most player don't know how to use them effectivly. My attempt to educate my fellow players on how to do so has really really upset some folks. (mostly the guilty) Why, they may suddenly find that having thier particularly objectionable form of fun at other players expense in no longer tolerated. That is my "War" aim.. Thats my vicotory condidtions. If I get sufficient folk educated how how to chop thier activities off at the knees . Getting them perma banned and thier fleet holding (if any exist) deleted because thier fleet no longer exists would definatly be a nice bonus, and would certainly put the message out loud and clear as to what will be tolerated, and what will not.
Thanks for chiming in on this... Your opinion is important!
Cordially
Khemaraa of the Iron Hand
I fixed this for you.
Voicesdark... Your points are valid though you did miss some of the Cryptic TOS though, but that's quibbling. In defense of your point, there is an awful lot of it!
The groups in question have been asked many times. One of the tactic they pull is debating with the requester. Basically trolling them on the spot to get them to break the TOS rules, it's an old tactic, and it works in social situations that happen in the real world too.
I will give them this, they're pretty damned good at what they do, but the one thing I have never ever seen from the persons in question, is respect another players request to just be left alone. The moment they don't, it crosses the line into the socially recognized definition of harassment (see previous post where I pointed out the difference between a criminal definition and a civil definition.) One of the sadly lacking disciplines in the current educational system is school systems no longer have civics? or government as a required subject during high school. I learned the differences between criminal and civil law decades ago, and they have not changed.
If the members of Dental and the rest of their chums would respect other players desire to be left alone, I would have never started this thread, and it wouldn't have been an issue involving the fleet?s activities.
But, it simply has gone on for far too long, and I've really never seen anyone go after them before. I got the time, and I got the will; thanks to them, I have the ammo.
Please believe I would rather not be posting about this and putting my social reputation on the line, but this behavior wouldn't be tolerated outside of a game and there is no reason for it to be tolerated inside either. The setting may be virtual and none of what you see on a screen is real, but the people behind the screen are real, I have heard people reduced to tears in voice chat after dealing with these folks. I've held a lot of virtual hands and the harm they cause is real. Star Trek Online is a game, if you want to beat someone up take it to PvP, if they don't want to fight, tough luck. There simply is no license in Star Trek Online or any other MMO to go around interfering with anyone else?s game play. A good deal of game play in STO is social, a lot of folks roleplay, and they do indeed keep away from public areas; mostly because of the three and a half year run of Starfleet Dental. That fleet and those like them have gone out of their way to make life miserable.
I've seen them at Drozana using item effects and imposing their avatar over other players who might be roleplaying, but were not typing in public chat, or in any of the public channels. If someone asked in local or tell "hey guys, that?s irritating, and more than a bit distracting, could you stop please?" They trash talk that person and then proceed to impose their avatars on the objector.
If that does not fit the socially recognized definition of harassing or bulling then apparently it must be impossible to perform such actions.
My opinion, is that harassment and bullying are not acceptable and I'm going to shorten this post a bit by not copying and pasting the specific points of the TOS they are violating. They like to play rules lawyer a great deal, but in reality the game GM's function as judges for the game concerning behavior
and judge if a violation of the TOS has occurred in the spirit of how it was written. There is some open wording there, but if the GM?s say a violation has occurred, they are under zero legal obligation to explain themselves. This same rule applies to the forum moderators.
The debates in this thread of who's right, who's wrong, who are the perpetrators, and who the injured parties are immaterial. They are not going to set the standards of behavior or determine what isn?t acceptable, GM's are going to set that standard by the letter and spirit of the TOS.
I'm sure that there are a few that will point a finger at me and say "You?re not being consistent!" Of course I'm not, I'm human, and this is a social forum. The game is called Politics, influencing others to ones point of view.
What Dental and company are doing is wrong, harmful, and mean; and it needs to stop. If they cannot stop themselves, then we the players have the right to ask a GM stop them for us! We have tools to report unacceptable behavior, but the reality is most players don't know how to use them effectively. My attempt to educate fellow players on how to use them has really upset some folks (Mostly the guilty.) They may suddenly find that having their particularly objectionable form of fun at other player?s expense no longer tolerated. That is my "War" that I am waging and my victory condition is getting a sufficient amount of players educated on how to chop their activities off at the knees. Getting them permanently banned and their fleet holdings (if any exist) deleted because their fleet no longer exists would defiantly be a nice bonus. I think this would broadcast the message as to what will be tolerated.
Thanks for chiming in on this... Your opinion is important!
Cordially
Khemaraa of the Iron Hand
This is how to accurately communicate with other human beings. If you insist in using the English language to convey thoughts and ideas you should put some effort into forming them clearly and with consistency.
P.S.
Please learn to spell Their, the amount of times I had to fix that mistake has engrained the idea that you might not understand how to spell that word.
Youknowwhatitis...
-Supporter of Cryptic Lockboxes!
voicesdark you left it open to easily being misinterpreted, and it makes a bad impression. A way you could have communicated better is to frame it up to give it context. If you made a statement at the start indicating that the following is the popular belief, then continued with the statement it would have made a better first impression. This also would have communicated what you were trying to do.
The thing is the situation is far worse than what you have described. The person who made the death threat video had a disco ball popped by some random person with no association with Starfleet Dental. This is because they are using Starfleet Dental's name as some sort of boogeyman to control and bully their own fleet members. What we are increasingly seeing is cult like behaviour in the fake roleplaying guilds. I do not know what there intent is but it is disturbing behaviour that they are exhibiting. It does make me concerned for the well being of children involved in the fake roleplaying fleets.
get a chill pill and go outside more...srsly! You are embarrasing yourself...no need for a cyber bully there.
that very article invalidates your claim, try reading before you post links to support your argument.
What is wrong with leaving people alone when they ask to be left alone?
I DM a forum based RPG and I can tell you that the cardinal sin of RPing is to mess with another RPer's character. I have banned people from my game for doing that. We do take these things very seriously, perhaps more so then you realize. So please, please leave us alone.
voicesdark you left it open to easily being misinterpreted, and it makes a bad impression. A way you could have communicated better is to frame it up to give it context. If you made a statement at the start indicating that the following is the popular belief, then continued with the statement it would have made a better first impression. This also would have communicated what you were trying to do.
The thing is the situation is far worse than what you have described. The person who made the death threat video had a disco ball popped by some random person with no association with Starfleet Dental. This is because they are using Starfleet Dental's name as some sort of boogeyman to control and bully their own fleet members. What we are increasingly seeing is cult like behaviour in the fake roleplaying guilds. I do not know what there intent is but it is disturbing behaviour that they are exhibiting. It does make me concerned for the well being of children involved in the fake roleplaying fleets.
If you look at that post I just edited it with a clarification at the bottom of the post and an apology for the misunderstanding.
I'm not aware of any death threat video, so I'm not sure exactly what the situation was, but the situation doesn't even matter as something like that is extremely uncalled for. Personally I don't see the big deal over the party amplifiers other than they shouldn't be used in ground events for any reason, other than that what's the big deal?
The only real problem I've ever had with anyone from your fleet was a couple of my friends and I were on voice chat on ESD trying to trade some thing between our characters and what not for a give away event we were doing and a few members of SFD came up to use and started with the poppers and fire extinguishers. It was making it hard to hear so we moved to a different spot and they followed us and started up again. I sent one of them a private message and explained everything and they apologized and left. It wasn't a big deal and was easily taken care of. That was shortly after the two year event so I can't speak for how the fleet dynamic and leadership is now, but I would expect the same courtesy as before.
I don't RP, so maybe I don't take it as seriously as others. I've used forum conversations between Nabreeki and myself as examples a few times because we've gotten into some seemingly heated discussions, now I know some of that was just a simple misunderstanding, but a lot of it has to do with passion for the game.
There is a simple respect and amount or courtesy that should be given and received, and so far again other than some simple misunderstandings it has always been there.
Perhaps this has been discussed before, but why aren't certain areas designated for different RP themes? Wouldn't that remove a lot of the problem?
that very article invalidates your claim, try reading before you post links to support your argument.
What is wrong with leaving people alone when they ask to be left alone?
I DM a forum based RPG and I can tell you that the cardinal sin of RPing is to mess with another RPer's character. I have banned people from my game for doing that. We do take these things very seriously, perhaps more so then you realize. So please, please leave us alone.
i guess we have 2 different interpretations of the same article then...
you have a right to ask people to leave you aleone in an MMO, but that doesn't mean that the other guy is bound by any law to follow your request. Your online avatar does not fall under the protective rights of your "private space"
if the harrassmanet was dragged into a real life situation, than we would be talking about harrasment...but in sto not even the real identites of people are revealed...nobody is getting harmed or molested in the real world, party poppers just can't do that, yet.
social networks like faebook are a different story, since real names are often involved and in almost all cyber bulling cases to date a real life connection was given.
In those situations you can really talk about it being dangerous cyber bulling, but not in STO and the use of party poppers...srsly.
Equalising those 2 things and calling people with party poppers in sto cyber bullys is actually an insult to the real victims.
anyway, this thread or "discussion" isn't really worth another minute of my time. People take themselves, this game and their role playing way too serious. If i had a friend with such an attitude i would be concerned about his mental health and his prioritys in life.
Comments
You might want to actually read what I wrote instead of just jumping to conclusions like usual. As far as your comment of "trolling" your recruitment site that was a legitimate discussion despite some miscommunication on both ends. How easily you forget to mention that I was also pointing out that only a few rogue members of your fleet were talking things beyond acceptable limits and that you're entire fleet shouldn't be punished by the community for the actions of some. The point of the Discussion on your recruitment thread, specifically with Nabreeki was that negatively effecting the gameplay of other players is against the TOS and was trying to suggest better methods of testing if the party amplifiers in that case were causing unintentional side effects in game aspects where they should not be enabled for use. Somehow that was misconstrued as attempting to "troll" It was also a legitimate question asking what the proper procedure outlined for your fleet was if a player had an issue with someone from your fleet and the party amplifier was just as an example.
Three times now I have either spoken neutrally or even in a beneficial way towards your fleet and it continues to be misconstrued and rudely responded too. I highly suggest you take more time to actually read posts thoroughly and make sure you fully understand the posters intent before responding to posts. Not everyone is on a holy quest to destroy and you need to realize that.
Speaking personally for myself, I have ADHD and sometimes when posting especially if I get distracted things don't always translate from thinking to what I mean very well so if you ever have a question of intent or meaning with any of my posts feel free to ask and I'll either elaborate or clarify.
Ah, that old piece of misinformation. Of course, warp core breaches and projected quantum singularities in non-combat zones exclusively targeted people whose Defiants were trying to put their noses into the aft shuttlebays of Sovereigns.:rolleyes: When the game started they only invited ERPers to their bridges to gank them. And the instance of New Romulus where they blocked the transporter access was actually the meeting place of the bi-weekly Pcon. Do you really assume people believe that TRIBBLE?
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I have watched and thoroughly laughed at all these things on youtube. I can't thank them enough for their shenanigans and I do think some people should go buy a sense of humor. I got a quarter, they ain't expensive.
EXCEPT NO, THE OP'S ARGUMENT IS INVALID, AS EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THIS THREAD.
Using a disco ball next to someone is such a ridiculous claim that your case would easily be laughed out of court. Meanwhile, people who dislike the disco ball have gone on record threatening to kill people who used the disco ball on them.
Let me quote you a portion of what you said in the recruiting thread.
You go on to try to justify a middle ground. Look behaving like this is not really welcome at all. You go on to **** up our recruitment thread. If you want to ask questions just keep it simple as rambling on the way you have looks like a veiled attack.
I response negatively to the way you have addressed us because it is inappropriate when dealing with people publicly. Your first sentence is an attack, and in the recruitment section of all places. If you don't want a negative response you may want to consider when you should and shouldn't post.
This right here? This is why we try to spread Disco to the masses. So many people need happiness in their dark, hateful lives.
And, as we all know, Disco is the happiest of genres.
Sorry, ther's no way I was going to read all of that. Easy way to get rid of trolls ingame, just change your privacy settings in the looking for team menu, that way you can make yourself invisible to all but those on your friends list
Voicesdark... Your points are valid thoughyou did miss some of the Cyptic TOS though though, but thats quibbling.. and in your defnce.. there is an awefull lot of it!
The groups in question have been asked.. many many many times.. to leave folks alone, mostly politly. Doesn't seem to work. One of the tactic they pull is debating with the requester. Basicly trolling them on the spot to get them to break the TOS rules on the spot... it's an old tactic... it works in social situations in the real world to.
And I will give them this, they're pretty damd good it. But the one thing I have never ever seen them do is respect another players request to just be left alone. The moment they don't do this it crosses the line into the socially recognized definition of harassment (see previous post where i pointed out the difference between a criminal definition and a civil definition. One of the sadder lacks in today educational system is good many school systems no longer have civic's and government as a required subject through out all 3 to 4 years of high school. I learned the differences between criminal and civil law decades ago, and they have not changed. Not one little bit.
If the members of Dental and the rest of thier chums would respect other players desire to be left alone.. I would have never started this post thread. It wouldn't be an issue involving the yes indeed 3 fleets activities.
But, it simply has gone on for far to long.. And I've really never seen anyone go after them before. I got the time, and I got the will.... and thanks to them.... I got the ammo.
Please belive I'd rather not be doing this, but having started on this path, and put my reputation socially on the line. Yea, I'm doing it, I'm after them. It wouldn't be tolerated out side of a game, and there is no reason for it to be tolerated inside a game...the setting may be virtual, and none of what you see on a screen is real... But the people behind the screen, they are real. And I have heard people reduced to tears in voice chat after dealing with these folks. I've held a lot of virtual hands, and the harm they've cause is real, absolutly real. Its a game, if you want to beat someone up take it to PvP.. and if they don't want to PvP *tsk* to bad... you don't get to do it. There simply is no licence in STO or any other mmo to go around interfearing with any one else game play. And a a good deal of game play in STO is social.. a lot of folk RP.. and they do indeed keep in away from public areas... mostly because of the 3 1/2 year run of STO Dental, and those like them have gone out of thier way to make life miserable for them. To Make gaming miserable for them.
I've seen em at Drozana go and start whipping out item effects, interposing thier avatar over other players who might have doing roleplaying, but were not doing it in public chat, or in any of the public channels... and if some one should say local or via a /tell "hey guys, thats irritating, and more then a bit distracting, could you stop please?" What they do is trash talk the person that said it and then proceed to interpose thier avatars over the avatar of the objector..
If that does not fit the definition, the socially recognized definition of harassing and bulling of other players then apparently it must be impossible to bully and harass another player.
My opinion, which is as valid as anyone else is that it is harassment and bullying, and it not acceptable.. I'm gonna shorten this post a bit by not cutting and pasting in the specific points of the TOS they are violating time and again. They like to play rules lawyer a great deal, but the reality is the game GM's function as judges for the game concerning behavior
and they judge a violation of the TOS not only apon the letter of the wording of the TOS, but the spirit of it. And there is some open wording thier.. But if the GM"s say its a violation, its a violation, and they are under zero legal obligation to explain them selves.
Same rule applies to Forum moderators.. If they say your broke the rules, and delete a post or close a thread, then guess what? You broke the rules and that is that. argument over.
The dabats in this thread of who's right, who's wrong, who's the perp, who's the injured party are actually, immateral. They are not going to set the standards of behavior or determine what is or is not acceptable. The GM's are going to set that standard by the letter and spirit of the TOS.
I'm sure that there are a few that will point a finger at me (yes me!) and say "Your not consistent!" Of course I'm not, I'm human.. and this is a social arena, and the game is called "Politcs" influencing others to ones point of view.
My point of view.. What Dental and company are doing is wrong. it's harmfull. It's mean. It needs to stop. And if they cannot stop them selves, then we the players have every single right to ask the the GM's stop them for us! And the GM's can stop them. There are reporting tools in place, but the reality is most player don't know how to use them effectivly. My attempt to educate my fellow players on how to do so has really really upset some folks. (mostly the guilty) Why, they may suddenly find that having thier particularly objectionable form of fun at other players expense in no longer tolerated. That is my "War" aim.. Thats my vicotory condidtions. If I get sufficient folk educated how how to chop thier activities off at the knees . Getting them perma banned and thier fleet holding (if any exist) deleted because thier fleet no longer exists would definatly be a nice bonus, and would certainly put the message out loud and clear as to what will be tolerated, and what will not.
Thanks for chiming in on this... Your opinion is important!
Cordially
Khemaraa of the Iron Hand
OMG thank you, I haven't laughed so hard in years.
This is the second time I have asked you to stop harassing me in this thread. To date I have never seen you leave anyone alone. You repeatedly posted gibberish in our recruitment thread even though you were asked to stop. We are the victims of your repeated harassment.
Requesting that false tickets are filed against us when we are the victims of your harassment is completely inappropriate. The rules you have posted are there for the purpose of dealing with people like yourself.
And if some people regard disco as the Khan to their Kirk, then disco will be Khan.
This is a prime example of how a bully behaves. It's time for you to stop ordering people around on a public forum. The abuse is also uncalled for.
Stop playing, start living.
I'd respect it if they were truly bullies but they are not. Playing with the parameters of the game makes them the best roleplayers ever not bullies. Period. If people don't believe what happens when people like Dental are absent, go to Goldshire on WoW as a female toon. You shall hear vile depravity that penetrates your ear with filth! Putrescent FILTH! The stuff that has been said to my sixteen year old sister was terrible.
Honestly, I want to see a Dental assault on Moon Guard server Goldshire in WoW. That place is in desperate need of fumigation and WoW nerds are oh so much more fun to troll and quicker to rage. It is also made of straw so it is quite flammable.
FACT!
http://www.wowwiki.com/Goldshire_inn_%28Moon_Guard_US%29
I feel Moon Guard server Pr0nshire is Starfleet Dental's ultimate raid content. From what I can gather from your mythology and what I have heard from the great and powerful Nabreeki, you would need great and unending Juche, as WELL as blessings of The Dear Leader to survive the Worgen infested bestiality layer that is that village in the woods.
people that are disturbed by party poppers, while they play interactive star trek barby and ken...you got to be kiddin', right?
it is also not cyber harassment to be precise...http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-cyber-harassment.htm
party poppers do not fall under taht category
get a chill pill and go outside more...srsly! You are embarrasing yourself...no need for a cyber bully there.
/thread
10char
...can't say much more in here as that might be the best anf fastest way to have my account banned. :rolleyes:
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I fixed this for you.
This is how to accurately communicate with other human beings. If you insist in using the English language to convey thoughts and ideas you should put some effort into forming them clearly and with consistency.
P.S.
Please learn to spell Their, the amount of times I had to fix that mistake has engrained the idea that you might not understand how to spell that word.
You know what it is...
-Supporter of Cryptic Lockboxes!
The thing is the situation is far worse than what you have described. The person who made the death threat video had a disco ball popped by some random person with no association with Starfleet Dental. This is because they are using Starfleet Dental's name as some sort of boogeyman to control and bully their own fleet members. What we are increasingly seeing is cult like behaviour in the fake roleplaying guilds. I do not know what there intent is but it is disturbing behaviour that they are exhibiting. It does make me concerned for the well being of children involved in the fake roleplaying fleets.
that very article invalidates your claim, try reading before you post links to support your argument.
What is wrong with leaving people alone when they ask to be left alone?
I DM a forum based RPG and I can tell you that the cardinal sin of RPing is to mess with another RPer's character. I have banned people from my game for doing that. We do take these things very seriously, perhaps more so then you realize. So please, please leave us alone.
If you look at that post I just edited it with a clarification at the bottom of the post and an apology for the misunderstanding.
I'm not aware of any death threat video, so I'm not sure exactly what the situation was, but the situation doesn't even matter as something like that is extremely uncalled for. Personally I don't see the big deal over the party amplifiers other than they shouldn't be used in ground events for any reason, other than that what's the big deal?
The only real problem I've ever had with anyone from your fleet was a couple of my friends and I were on voice chat on ESD trying to trade some thing between our characters and what not for a give away event we were doing and a few members of SFD came up to use and started with the poppers and fire extinguishers. It was making it hard to hear so we moved to a different spot and they followed us and started up again. I sent one of them a private message and explained everything and they apologized and left. It wasn't a big deal and was easily taken care of. That was shortly after the two year event so I can't speak for how the fleet dynamic and leadership is now, but I would expect the same courtesy as before.
I don't RP, so maybe I don't take it as seriously as others. I've used forum conversations between Nabreeki and myself as examples a few times because we've gotten into some seemingly heated discussions, now I know some of that was just a simple misunderstanding, but a lot of it has to do with passion for the game.
There is a simple respect and amount or courtesy that should be given and received, and so far again other than some simple misunderstandings it has always been there.
Perhaps this has been discussed before, but why aren't certain areas designated for different RP themes? Wouldn't that remove a lot of the problem?
i guess we have 2 different interpretations of the same article then...
you have a right to ask people to leave you aleone in an MMO, but that doesn't mean that the other guy is bound by any law to follow your request. Your online avatar does not fall under the protective rights of your "private space"
if the harrassmanet was dragged into a real life situation, than we would be talking about harrasment...but in sto not even the real identites of people are revealed...nobody is getting harmed or molested in the real world, party poppers just can't do that, yet.
social networks like faebook are a different story, since real names are often involved and in almost all cyber bulling cases to date a real life connection was given.
In those situations you can really talk about it being dangerous cyber bulling, but not in STO and the use of party poppers...srsly.
Equalising those 2 things and calling people with party poppers in sto cyber bullys is actually an insult to the real victims.
anyway, this thread or "discussion" isn't really worth another minute of my time. People take themselves, this game and their role playing way too serious. If i had a friend with such an attitude i would be concerned about his mental health and his prioritys in life.