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Jupiter Class: Carrier?
minmacdougal
Member Posts: 182 Arc User
This is mostly a "why not" here folks. We've seen just about every other NPC ship make its way to the "playable" status. As it is the Feddies are still lacking in the carrier department to the KDF and since this ship basically only makes its appearances in story missions I say make it useable. Just need to dust-off the cobwebs, change a thing here and there, and voila you have another carrier to use. I'm thinking this beast would actually handle better in an engie's hands seeing as its still pretty much a cruiser of sorts. Any ideas on BOFF layout, consoles, and the such are welcome, but meanwhile I'm going to offer my 2-cents:
Bridge Officers:
- Commander Engineering
- Lt. Commander Tactical
- Lieutenant Science
- Lieutenant Tactical
- Ensign Engineering
Consoles:
- 4 Engineering
- 2 Science
- 3 Tactical
- 2 Hangers
Bridge Officers:
- Commander Engineering
- Lt. Commander Tactical
- Lieutenant Science
- Lieutenant Tactical
- Ensign Engineering
Consoles:
- 4 Engineering
- 2 Science
- 3 Tactical
- 2 Hangers
Post edited by minmacdougal on
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Comments
Sure...lacking in the Carrier department...that's why Feds have the Armitage and the Vesta. Yes lets make a carrier that is better armed and build than either of the KDF two hanger ships.
God forbid a faction have any uniqueness to it...
the jupiter in game is a low res , low poly kitbash designed as an npc ship back when they needed quick ship classes to fill the gaps ( for ' boss' encounters in patrols etc )
it would need completely reworking from the ground up
this is the same reason a lot of the gorn and orion npc ships arent available to fly in game
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
However if you look at the current track record it shouldn't be much surprise. It is agreed upon that the thing really needs a facelift though.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no reason to make a bad post that's really not contributing. I would use the actual term, but TOS forbids me.
Currently there are only 3 flavors; the Vesta, the Armitage, and the Atrox. As it is the Atrox is the only full-fledged carrier so far and its only geared toward science. Also I don't like your sarcasm there.
Seriously, any actual suggestions or changes folks?
if they did a jupiter for a playable ship , its would need to be done again totally from scratch
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Note: These are an attempt of mine to create ship that fills the full carrier role for Feds and it is intentionally meant to require a team for full effect)
Federation Taskforce Command Ship - Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn Classes (Tac, Eng, and Sci respectively) :
Hull: 45,000
Shield: 1.15
Turn: 5.5
Impulse mod: .15
Interia: 20
Weapons: 4 fore/ 3 aft
Can use dual cannons
2 hangars (exclusive hangar: Raven Class Frigates)
Consoles: Tac / Eng / Sci variants
Tac consoles: 4 / 3 / 2
Eng consoles: 3 / 4 / 4
Sci consoles: 3 / 3 / 4
Power bonus:
Tac: +10 wep, +5 shield
Eng: +10 shield, +5 eng
Sci: +5 shield, +10 aux
Boff slots:
Tac variant: Cmdr Tac / Lt. Com Uni / Lt Sci / Lt Eng / Ens Eng
Eng variant: Cmdr Eng / Lt. Com Uni / Lt Tac / Lt Sci / Ens Sci
Sci variant: Cmdr Sci / Lt. Com uni / Lt Tac / Lt Eng / Ens Tac
Special Consoles:
Co-ordination Beacon (Jupiter Class): PBAoE field that buffs each friendly ship based on the number of allies present in field. (5km PBAoE, +5% damage, +5 damage resist for each allied vessel in field, max 5, lasts for 45 seconds, buff expires on leaving field, does not affect or count hangars) Exclusive with Energy Transfer Field.
Energy Transfer Field (Mars Class): Team buff that creates power drain resistance and EPS bonus based on total EPS skill of team, moderate all power bonus to team (teamwide, +Power Insulators, +EPS, + power to all levels, the magnitude of these bonuses are beyond my experience to suggest) Exclusive with Co-ordination Beacon.
Graviton Catapult (Saturn Class): Deploys a temporary Graviton Catapult that launches allies 12.5 km forward when they approach within 1.5 km of the catapult, generates a 2.5 km stealth field, takes 10 seconds to deploy, lasts for 60 seconds.
Set Bonuses:
2-piece: Tactical Command Facilities: Increases the number of allied targets that boosts Co-ordination Beacon by 5 and increases team hangar damage by 15% (non-stackable).
3-piece: Strategic Decisions: Boosts team cooldown rate by 50%, reduces own CD rate by 25%, 30 second duration.
Unique Hangar:
Raven Class Frigate:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Raven_type
1 per wing, 2 wings active at any one time per hangar
Rare:
Weapons: Phaser Dual Beam Bank fore, Phaser Beam Array fore and aft, Photon Mine Launcher
Abilities: Mine Dispersal Pattern Alpha I, Engineering Team I, Science Team I
Very-rare:
Weapons: Phaser Dual Beam Bank fore, Photon Torp Launcher, Phaser Beam Array fore and aft, Photon Mine Launcher
Abilities: Mine Dispersal Pattern Alpha II, Engineering Team II, Science Team II
Ultra-rare:
Weapons: Phaser Dual Beam Bank fore, Quantum Torp Launcher, Phaser Beam Array fore and aft, Quantum Mine Launcher
Abilities: Mine Dispersal Pattern Alpha II, Engineering Team II, Science Team II, Continuous Transphasic Mine Laying Module (like the fleet op asset cruisers)
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
I don't think we need another carrier. What I want is to have a true dreadnought starship. Imagine, a Jupiter class dreadnought, largest playable ship in the game. No hangers, slow impulse modifier, and super low turn rate. But, the ship is armed to the teeth with cannons, capable of mounting dual heavy cannons in both fore and aft facings. Now the fun part is that it has a special ability (can be from a passive console or set bonus) of mounted cannon swivel. Cannons that normally have a 45 degree field of fire now have beam array field of fire allowing for a full cannon broadside from a big ol' dreadnought. Big, Slow, packs a wallop, but makes the galaxy look like an escort. Now that's a dreadnought! More firepower than brains
just not a federation ship
if anyone would design and build such a ship , it would more than likely be the K.D.F
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
I'm really liking your idea there; probably could change the face of PvP especially in well-coordinated teams and fleets.
That would require having a special set of cannons in use, maybe introduce 2 (or 1 depending how you think about it) new slots: port and starboard. It would then require the following layout: 2 fore slots, 1 port, 1 starboard, 2 aft.
Starfleet has... 1 Carrier, 1 Escort Carrier, and the Vesta. Sure we can throw in the new Scimitar into the list, but that's technically available to both sides, and the Jem'Hadar carriers are rare drops or lots of Lobi. Therefore there is still a balance issue there if anyone wants to go that way. I admit Starfleet does have more ships in general, but that is because there is a lot more material to work off of for Federation designs.
The Jupiter would make both a good Dreadnought and a good basis for a new Carrier variant. Just needs a redesign. The primary hull could be altered to include flight decks while the necelles are put more to the sides instead of the above/below configuration they're in now.
If anyone's played Starfleet Command 2, I'm kinda thinking of a 2409 version of the Fed carrier from that game.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Only if for you "TRIBBLE ton" = 2.
Only if you consider the Sovereign to be an escort.
But I think we should hold off on any new Fed carriers until the KDF gets an Armitage-equivalent and the RR gets at least one dedicated carrier.
Fixed. Not sure how you got 2 from Dacoit, Corsair, and Marauder, which is obviously 3.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
as for the jupiter , it would be nice to see it , but certainly not in its current form
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
What he said. What's more the one dedicated Fed carrier is paying for the privilege of a almost direct copy of a tier 4 Vo'Quv someone put a new skin on and rushed out the door.
The Atrox is also suffering from it's age. Every ship that came after it was always just a tiny bit more powerful then the last and always had some new gimmick a little more powerful then the last. The Atrox is a very old ship...
...Anyone read the in game description for it recently?
This is not entirely accurate. At tier 5, the KDF only has 5 carriers, three full and two flight-deck. The Vo'quv and Marauder are superseded by the Fleet Vo'quv and the Corsair/Fleet Corsair. So essentially what we have is 3 carriers, 2 full and 1 flight deck, with 1 full and the flight deck having an earlier variant.
NOW compare this to the Atrox (which is not a bad carrier, it's just expensive compared to the nearest equivalent, the regular Vo'quv), the Escort Carrier (which beats the pants off the Flight Deck carrier in terms of maneuvering, DPS, and generally kicking TRIBBLE), and the Vesta (which also beats the pants off the Flight Deck carrier). You're not that far behind.
The cross-faction ships are very numerous in PvP, as well, so I tend to add those in to the total, which gives the Federation a good brace of carriers to use.
My take on this issue is this: You. Do. Not. Need. More. Carriers. Stop trying to take more KDF strengths without even bothering to mention 'oh, maybe the KDF could get some of the cool sh*t the Federation has been getting'. We're getting awfully damn tired of it.
As it stands, the KDF's remaining unique strengths are in battlecruisers and carriers, while the Federation has the clear edge in escorts (inexplicably) and science ships. What you guys are proposing in this thread is to weaken the KDF's carrier edge even more, again without even bothering to suggest that the KDF escort section be shored up, or the KDF be given competitive science ships.
Making the flight deck carriers on the KDF side something truly different from the full carriers would be helpful. The flight deck carriers are basically the equivalent of Federation cruisers with a hangar bay tacked on. They don't carry cannons, have only 7-8 turnrate, and are boffslotted for tanking/support. When it comes down to it, the Vo'quv or Kar'fi are better options to use in most situations.
The KDF could use a truly nimble flight-deck carrier, something equivalent to the JHEC, Armitage, or Vesta. All of these are considerably more maneuverable and useful (in my opinion) than even the Fleet Corsair.
While we're on the topic of carriers, the Kar'fi DEFINITELY needs a bit of a boost, now that it's facing something like the Jem'hadar Dreadnought and all the other newer carrier options out there. Making a Fleet Kar'fi would be a sensible financial decision on the part of Cryptic, KDF carrier jocks would buy it.
This ^ I couldn't agree more
I personally dont think the Federation should have a starfleet carrier , full stop , escort carriers , and flight deck are pushing it.
Even if cryptic decide to make a full starfleet carrier , id much prefer it to come after more K.D.F ones
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Uhm....I was under the impression that we are discussing Tier 5 here. Or you guys want the Jupiter at Tier 3? :P
Marauder (T5 C-Store) + Corsair (T5 Fleet) = 2. I dont calculate the Dacoit & regular Corsair in the equation because they're lower tier ships.
Aw, you make me sad. :P
The federation does have a single full carrier. here
Even if the description is somewhat broken.
Which is wrong, Stalker can only be used on a Atrox. It just goes to show you the devs pay about as much attention to the ship as everyone else. :P
And I think people are forgetting that it is possible for one faction to start developing countermeasures to an enemy weapons system, which is actually how an arms race during war works. One side develops an effective weapon, the other either tries to copy it or counter it. Therefor talk of "Starfleet must not get carriers" is kinda selfish and unrealistic. Basically, it would be like a Fed player saying that the KDF should NOT get anything like the Vesta or any other Fed design. So unless you KDF players want to see Starfleet get something similar to an Anti Missile System console that is capable of shooting down fighters... you're going to have to accept that Starfleet will start developing its own carriers to act as a counter to KDF carriers.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
the caitian kitty box , while a full carrier , is a federation member race ship similar to the d'kyr and Kumari
they may be used by starfleet , but they arent starfleet designs
I was on about a starfleet full carrier , which is what the OP is after
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Well, in all honesty, I wouldn't consider the low tier ships relevant if we take into consideration how STO works. Leveling is so fast and easy that the amount of time one spends on any low tier ships is laughable. The leveling is especially fast on the KDF side because we generaly get more exp from the missions due to having less of them.
VA is actually where it's at. I don't believe that the Federation players would be satisfied if Cryptic makes 6 carriers or flight-deck cruisers for Fed., but put them in between Tier 2 and Tier 4. I can't see the players saying "Awesome, now we're cool, we have a ton of carriers".
Personally, I'm against carriers in general. They're just not Star Trek to me. That said, I don't believe that the carriers should or could be exclusive to a faction simply because the style of play they offer is quite different from anything else and because of the vast interest many players have for the carriers. So, although I consider it to be extremely hideous I have nothing against the Jupiter to appear as a carrier.
However, you said that "One side develops an effective weapon, the other tries to copy it or counter it." I'm more with the "counter it" part, than for "copy it". There are certain things in STO that need to be the same for players of every faction, but then again there need to be some considerable differences. Even though my main is KDF, I play all factions and I wouldn't want when I log on my Fed. to have the same feeling and play the same style as I did on my KDF. Diversity brings fun and is more challenging, IMHO.
The way I see it is - KDF should have an edge in battlecruisers and raiders and the Federation should have an edge in escorts and science ships. The game has already gone a bit in this direction and that's not a bad idea to keep the factions different. The Romulans with their warbirds are pretty unique as it is and have no issues about that.
So, I have nothing against the Jupiter, but for the love of Trek, don't make it so humongous because we'll really need traffic lights to get around in sector space after the latest aditions of huge ships in STO. :P
Dread Jupiter:
Cdr Uni
LTC Engineering
LT Universal
LT Science
Ensign Uni
Hull: 45k
Turn Rate: 5
Shield Mod: 1.5
Consoles
5 Engineering
4 Science
1 Tactical
1 Hanger bay
4 Fore 4 Aft weapons
Console: Phased Shield Modulator
AOE 5km, Heals and Distributes all Friendly shields for 20 seconds as long as they are in the bubble. And drains All enemy shields, increasing the heal by the amount drained.