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Scimitar bugged?

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  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    pissycuta wrote: »
    And to that statement i can only say that doesn't mean the scimitar is not bugged or badly designed, from canon it's supposed to be a predator... so far every scimitar i encountered that can actually "survive" in an STF and the like had like 2-3 tactical consoles and they got out aggro-ed by me in a fleet dhelan with 5 tactical consoles and 2 minus threat embassy consoles equipped....
    So the question is why should anyone buy the ship or the triple pack, just for the skins? The differences between the ships are minor at best, and it forces you NOT to use any of the set consoles or tactical consoles if you want to live....
    So again i say why buy a "special" ship with special consoles and use it like any other ship?

    Well i can tell you he was not using 5 tac consoles either - go figure - you can't use 5 tac consoles on this ship if you want to survive - too funny!
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well i can tell you he was not using 5 tac consoles either - go figure - you can't use 5 tac consoles on this ship if you want to survive - too funny!

    You can use the 5 tactical consoles, but you shouldn't fill out your engi slots with uni consoles. Which means you would have to give up some of it's gimmick consoles OR the zero point/assimilated module.

    End result: you can't have everything with this ship.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    You can use the 5 tactical consoles, but you shouldn't fill out your engi slots with uni consoles. Which means you would have to give up some of it's gimmick consoles OR the zero point/assimilated module.

    End result: you can't have everything with this ship.

    Wait Wait - isn't the point of the 3 ships the gimmick consoles - since boff seating is all the same - so if you want to survive you can't use the 3 pack right? LoL
  • wufangchuwufangchu Member Posts: 778 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I just survived my third infected conduit elite without coming anywhere near dieing.. I also use all three consoles. however, i'm also running every console from every ship of the legacy pack i can run on this thing and i've followed the recommendations of the people on this thread for shield regeneration and hull healing.. I think i lost rear shields twice from the gateway tagging me.. Theres actually very little wrong with the ship. its just a pain in the TRIBBLE to configure and set up..
    Its bordeline voodoo bad joojoo, but my gods is it sweet when it all works together.
    wraith_zps7pzgamff.jpg
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    From what I posted int the Gameplay bugs section on this ship:

    Then some said maybe I was not playing STO and some other game with the scimmie - to which I replied:

    Your attacks are all kinetic based with an emphasis on bleedthrough, they can be easily dodged if the recipient knows what they are doing.

    If the said build has very high damage resistance, which implies it's not based on Shield Power, then such resistance can be achieved with very high Aux to certain skills such as Polarize Hull 3. More to the point, the said captain can max out both hull plating and armor skill points, + 2 Neutronium alloy Mk Xii purple + other resist boosting abilities. More importantly, PH3 at max Aux power creates an astronomical damage resistance in addition to the already strong innate damage resist.

    So it's possible to have such highly resistant build, tough to kill. The downside of such tank is that its attack would be weaker as well. Just because he is using the tact version doesn't mean all 5 consoles are filled with tact consoles. Instead, the choice of which Schim should be guided by which + power you want? For me weapon power is a waste, so the tact version makes no sense.

    In order to kill this kind of tank, assuming no hack is used, you need a series of high burst damage as opposed to sustained DPS in a very short period of time. This is tough to do for a T'Varo. Next time, if you want to destroy him, get yourself a Nukara Web mine, have DPB3 + APO1. Sensor Scanne with maximum Aux, find a way to immobilize him like Graviton Pulse, decloaked Alpha with DPB3 with Nukara Mines.

    1) Sensored Scan, right out of cloak, aux = 125
    2) Fire Anti-Matter Spread
    3) Tractor him, fire Gravition Pulse
    4) Subnuke to remove any buffs such as Polarize Hull or APO
    5) Activate TT, APO, DPB3 with Nukara Web Mines and everything else you got such as any Torpedo Spreads and/or Cluster Torp
    6) Watch him implode with 24K X 8 = 192K in base damage, without even any Crit

    Do that, you should cause a sudden burst of physical damage of about 24K X 8 + anything else you may have, which will be well over 200K even without any Crit. But we know you are going to land some crit because with your spec, the Nukara mines will have a 25%+ base crit chance. The tractor & Graviton pulse will lead to accuracy overflow, increasing your crit chance and severity further. He would be completely blind by AMS and unable to realize he is being tractored or hit by Graviton pulse. But make sure you time your shot in the middle of a APO so that it can be neutralized and that he doesn't have a back up one ready to use.

    Just try this once, and watch him die painfully. ;) Then you can ask him how he feels afterwards. :P
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Need to do some more testing, especially in PVP, but after dismissing my shuttle I see nothing alarming about loss of shields in elite STFs so far, and certainly no DPS decrease. Running no field gens or resistance consoles, just the Valdore uni, the Secondary Shield, Cloaked Barrage, 1 Flow Cap, Plasmonic and 5 tac consoles, with Aegis shield and Mk XI Jem set.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    Your attacks are all kinetic based with an emphasis on bleedthrough, they can be easily dodged if the recipient knows what they are doing.

    If the said build has very high damage resistance, which implies it's not based on Shield Power, then such resistance can be achieved with very high Aux to certain skills such as Polarize Hull 3. More to the point, the said captain can max out both hull plating and armor skill points, + 2 Neutronium alloy Mk Xii purple + other resist boosting abilities. More importantly, PH3 at max Aux power creates an astronomical damage resistance in addition to the already strong innate damage resist.

    So it's possible to have such highly resistant build, tough to kill. The downside of such tank is that its attack would be weaker as well. Just because he is using the tact version doesn't mean all 5 consoles are filled with tact consoles. Instead, the choice of which Schim should be guided by which + power you want? For me weapon power is a waste, so the tact version makes no sense.

    In order to kill this kind of tank, assuming no hack is used, you need a series of high burst damage as opposed to sustained DPS in a very short period of time. This is tough to do for a T'Varo. Next time, if you want to destroy him, get yourself a Nukara Web mine, have DPB3 + APO1. Sensor Scanne with maximum Aux, find a way to immobilize him like Graviton Pulse, decloaked Alpha with DPB3 with Nukara Mines.

    1) Sensored Scan, right out of cloak, aux = 125
    2) Fire Anti-Matter Spread
    3) Tractor him, fire Gravition Pulse
    4) Subnuke to remove any buffs such as Polarize Hull or APO
    5) Activate TT, APO, DPB3 with Nukara Web Mines and everything else you got such as any Torpedo Spreads and/or Cluster Torp
    6) Watch him implode with 24K X 8 = 192K in base damage, without even any Crit

    Do that, you should cause a sudden burst of physical damage of about 24K X 8 + anything else you may have, which will be well over 200K even without any Crit. But we know you are going to land some crit because with your spec, the Nukara mines will have a 25%+ base crit chance. The tractor & Graviton pulse will lead to accuracy overflow, increasing your crit chance and severity further. He would be completely blind by AMS and unable to realize he is being tractored or hit by Graviton pulse. But make sure you time your shot in the middle of a APO so that it can be neutralized and that he doesn't have a back up one ready to use.

    Just try this once, and watch him die painfully. ;) Then you can ask him how he feels afterwards. :P

    Man you are good - you nailed it - he was using a High Aux build - you win the cookie!!! :)

    Biggest problem for me and the others was he had between 2-4 ships flanking - so we could hit him with so much but could not keep it up under fire.

    Still I have dealt with similar situations - this was just a monster of a build - which could still deal damage with its 5 forward canons.

    My point in posting this encounter is:

    are the problems with the Scimitar - "Ship related" or "Captain related"?
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Its f*cking ship related.

    Just cause some people DONT have problems doesnt mean those problems dont exsist for the rest of us. Go read my posts. This is the same type of junk that happened with the Kumari. People did the same thing "Must be the captain", i explained its random on the bugs.

    Either you tank fine or you explode. And honestly if the dude you saw had support i dont care what ship he is in you can tank all day with people backing you up and the other team not stripping them of buffs.

    All it would take to down that guy is well timed subnuke + alpha strike. Why? Cause itll kill anyone.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    After reading this thread, I decided to examine the stats a little more carefully in non-sector space, right above DS9. Looking at the tooltip, the only thing that seems bugged is the hull regeneration rate, which was at about 40%. Shield regeneration rate seems to simply be a display issue - meaning that the tooltip display is incorrect as I tested it by activating TSS2 but it remained at -1. But we know that can't be right because shields definitely regenerate with TSS2, no issue there.

    So I dismissed the shuttle, which I wanted to do long time ago anyway as it was just free Rommie one that I don't like at all. What happened next was a little curious. When I came back out on top of DS9, all my powers are scrambled. I had to reinstall all my boff and re-arrange their powers back, one by one. After which, I noticed the hull regeneration rate went up to about 140%. The rest is pretty much the same. Shield Regenerate is still at 0/-1 but it's clear that display is bugged. I figure that because it's a new item, it's probably not coded correctly, thus the error display but that doesn't mean anything because same display happens to my Fed Wells. So the Shield Regeneration rate is displayed incorrectly in the tooltip is likely due to some formula error. This should be reported to Cryptic, other than that, I can't see anything that is out of whack with the Scimitar stats. And one last check shield strength per facing is slightly better than Fleet Dhelan with the exact same equipment, which also passes the common sense test given shield modifier of 1.045 vs. 1.10

    If there is any problem, I am not seeing it. But what I can tell you is that this build is a lot more durable than the Fleet Dhelan in CE Elite, which is quite something. Note I don't have any eng armor console - all my damage resistance are power based.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    jtoney3448 wrote: »
    Its f*cking ship related.

    Just cause some people DONT have problems doesnt mean those problems dont exsist for the rest of us. Go read my posts. This is the same type of junk that happened with the Kumari. People did the same thing "Must be the captain", i explained its random on the bugs.

    Either you tank fine or you explode. And honestly if the dude you saw had support i dont care what ship he is in you can tank all day with people backing you up and the other team not stripping them of buffs.

    All it would take to down that guy is well timed subnuke + alpha strike. Why? Cause itll kill anyone.

    It is quite possible that it could be random - but I find that suspicious - and if it is - that is bad news to try and fix - as some people are super tanks and others paper tigers.

    And none of the ships that decided to support him - hanging around and help him from sustained attack from everyone - where giving him heals or buffs.

    He received zero - heals - shields - tactical buffs from anyone else - all his flanking ships did was make it extremely hard to maintain sustained engagement with him.

    Ok the other thing he had which I might as well say is that he was running the 2 piece borg Mk XII deflector and Engine - which gives a HUGE buff to structural integraty - especially with his high Aux build.

    He also made presise use of the cloak and cloak shield and Quantum absortion + Valdore console.

    Oh well there goes my pinkie swear.

    Add in Aux to structural - Polorize hull and aux to damp - and you have 1 hell of a tank.
  • pissycutapissycuta Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'd have to agree with what others said, it's the ship same as with the Kumari.

    Now because you are praising the said player so much, he did as you said 900k damage... and got 32 kills... WOW... divide that... oh wait he did 28000 damage per kill... either you all were in shuttles, never healed... or he just got the lucky kill shot while others did the damage...

    The point is every ship can be "oh OP" with right skills and build... i saw a galaxy almost spin on its axis... now that means the cruisers have OP turn rate and should be nerfed? ;)
    I understand you have a Tvaro, how would you feel if a beam array shot 1 hitted you and then someone came and told you should run it with 4 neutronium mk XIIs to stay alive and never use the enhanced battle cloak and then you won't be 1 hitted?

    In essence the scimitar cryptic released is nothing like canon or a predator... is a weird inertia ship that can tank while doing no damage (or less damage than everything else) using 1-2 tac consoles instead of 5 and not using the set consoles....
    OR
    Use 5 tactical consoles and 3 from set and be 1 hit by everything....
    OR
    Use a "pro" build without the set consoles you payed 5000 zen for (as the ships are identical) + a bunch of universal / mk XII purples and than you will be in between not best damage not best tank but alive...

    Yep it's obviously not a design flaw the mighty warbird dreadnaught is more of a paper tiger than the kumari which was advertised as a glass cannon....
  • trekkietravistrekkietravis Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    johankreig wrote: »
    is it possible to dissmiss a shuttle and get it back if u need it, I have a time ship shuttle, dont wana loose it, as its a loby store purchase.

    C-store shuttles, yes.

    Lobi/Dilithium shuttles, no.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    pissycuta wrote: »
    I'd have to agree with what others said, it's the ship same as with the Kumari.

    Now because you are praising the said player so much, he did as you said 900k damage... and got 32 kills... WOW... divide that... oh wait he did 28000 damage per kill... either you all were in shuttles, never healed... or he just got the lucky kill shot while others did the damage...

    The point is every ship can be "oh OP" with right skills and build... i saw a galaxy almost spin on its axis... now that means the cruisers have OP turn rate and should be nerfed? ;)
    I understand you have a Tvaro, how would you feel if a beam array shot 1 hitted you and then someone came and told you should run it with 4 neutronium mk XIIs to stay alive and never use the enhanced battle cloak and then you won't be 1 hitted?

    In essence the scimitar cryptic released is nothing like canon or a predator... is a weird inertia ship that can tank while doing no damage (or less damage than everything else) using 1-2 tac consoles instead of 5 and not using the set consoles....
    OR
    Use 5 tactical consoles and 3 from set and be 1 hit by everything....
    OR
    Use a "pro" build without the set consoles you payed 5000 zen for (as the ships are identical) + a bunch of universal / mk XII purples and than you will be in between not best damage not best tank but alive...

    Yep it's obviously not a design flaw the mighty warbird dreadnaught is more of a paper tiger than the kumari which was advertised as a glass cannon....

    Before this went live I was begging and pleading for: More hull, more turn, more shield, different console layout, different boff layout.

    I was laughed at, told to shut up, told I would never get my god ship so give it up, stop being silly - etc etc etc

    I told them that I could see major problems and people blowing up all over the place - I said i could see a major forum rant coming like a deer caught in the head lights.

    But hey what do i know - listen to me - no - people just called me crazy.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Before this went live I was begging and pleading for: More hull, more turn, more shield, different console layout, different boff layout.

    I was laughed at, told to shut up, told I would never get my god ship so give it up, stop being silly - etc etc etc

    I told them that I could see major problems and people blowing up all over the place - I said i could see a major forum rant coming like a deer caught in the head lights.

    But hey what do i know - listen to me - no - people just called me crazy.

    Welcome to the club. :)
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Just did KA elite no prob, do infected, spheres hit me for 31-36k through my shield, tac cube hits me for 116k through my shield without a HY plasma torp. On the spheres my shields were still full on that facing just before i died, cause it was always followed up by another shot.

    Tried re-equiping shield nothing helped. When TRIBBLE did impact my shields they were blown to bits in a second like my honor guard shield was a mk1. Donno what the deal is but something is broken. Having same issues in non-stfs.


    /sigh

    itd be funny if it wasnt so bleeding annoying.
  • johankreigjohankreig Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    i suspect its the shuttle issue as mentioned, as my weapons shield seem to be the same level as my shuttle, alas I dont wana scrap my temporal shuttle (even if it is naff) unless this is a definate temp fix
    Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
  • ga1enga1en Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    johankreig wrote: »
    i suspect its the shuttle issue as mentioned, as my weapons shield seem to be the same level as my shuttle, alas I dont wana scrap my temporal shuttle (even if it is naff) unless this is a definate temp fix

    Since you don't want to scap your shuttle, can you try a different test for me? But only if you have the Hangar space.

    Buy a cheapo shuttle for ec. Name it tobedeleted. :D

    Go to the ship selection Officer and select the shuttle as the active ship so that the little shuttle icon moves to it from your Temporal shuttle. (This means that if you go to sector space you should be in the cheapo shuttle)

    Go back to the ship selection officer and reselect your Starship.

    Delete el cheapo shuttle.

    This should remove the active shuttle but your Temporal shuttle will not have the tiny shuttle icon signifying that you have not selected a shuttle as your active shuttle.

    I'm wondering if this will have the same effect as no shuttle.
  • johankreigjohankreig Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    hmm i could do that, will just scrap my scorpion (after stripping it) that I can get back for free, alas cant test that till sunday, so if anyone else could that would be great, let us know, I will try and keep tracks of this thread till I can get back on.
    Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
  • ga1enga1en Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'll be home in an hour and will *shudder*buy but not activate the cheapo rom shuttle and see if that does anything. Will keep you people posted on what I find.

    Also will experiment with removing the shielded while cloaked module and see if that fixes the shield issues (both the 100% bleedthrough and non regening problem)

    Also just got a mk XII purple regening shield yesterday. Will try that in lieu of the aegis shield while keeping the rest of the aegis set on. See if that does anything.
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  • johankreigjohankreig Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am gona get myself a set of fleet shields etc, to replace the aegis I am using, I dont PvP so tbh none of these issues are a huge problem to me and I dont do Elite Stfs, so I can die as much as I want and not care, the shields and weapons being underpowered are a problem, but not enough of one to throw my toys out of the pram like some people on here are, its not even close to being a waste of money, It, flies, shoots, spits out frigates, takes damage and has a cracking claok and abilities, what more do you want, They will fix it once they can figure out the problem, have patience, we all have other ships to use while we wait (Personaly I am still using the Falchion, broken or not, its still a bloody good ship) as for the thaeleron weapon, its best against massed units, I managed to almost wiipe out 6 probes and 2 spheres in one shot using it, its a tactical weapon, u have to know when and where to pop it.
    Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
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  • wufangchuwufangchu Member Posts: 778 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I run it in elite stfs all the time.. I'm getting around 1800 damage from it with a peak of 40K when i use the thaleron weapon. And, i dont die, not even in Infected the conduit. What have i got special?? I'm running a falchion with two RCS consoles and tetraburnium armor. Everything else is pretty stock except for the four fleet polaron DHC's. And since i'm a noob, i figure its only going to get better as i learn more and more.. It has the potential of being an awesome ship..
    wraith_zps7pzgamff.jpg
  • stongbadsstongbads Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wufangchu wrote: »
    I run it in elite stfs all the time.. I'm getting around.

    How much DPS & damage are you losing while spinning up that weapon? If you're trying to research this, you may need to compare the results with your previous ship too.
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  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    But with such a polarization of opinion I think it is obvious that there is some common denominator. Maybe it is the shuttle, maybe it is not.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
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  • captainobvious09captainobvious09 Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Forget about the shuttle, delete the Scimitar and fly something else, that will solve the problem.

    I would assume if enough people are upset about it, it might be possible to get our money back, has anyone called Cryptic and requested a refund? Its obvious they have no intention of fixing it, since they are not even admitting it has a problem.
  • johankreigjohankreig Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    thats a little off dont you think and also slanderous, you dont know what there doing to fix it, just because there not saying anything dosnt meen we must instatly think there ignoring us, we shouldnt need to use such comments on these forums, atleast give them a chance to fix it, its probably a bigger issue that we realise and therefore is taking longer to solve.
    Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
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