Hypos would count towards dispelling it, but probably wouldn't do enough healing on their own to dispel it in one shot. I'm still not 100% sure if I'm going to add the healing dispel to it, but it seems like it would be fun in PvP.
Okay. Just a little more clarification. If you implement this.....
So let's say a person uses a self heal hypo and tier 5 Omega heal on themselves. That could dispel it.
Now, what if a medic heals someone. Would that count towards the heal or is only personal heal?
Finally, there's the question of how to counter it when it's used on you. Since it's physical damage, I'm going to tag it so that Biofilter Sweep removes the DoT, but I'm also considering allowing the DoT to be removed by an amount of healing received somewhere between one and two health bars. This gives the doff some counterplay in PvP, allowing the target to react to the ability being used on them.
Somewhere between one and two health bars? Did you consider how this will affect tac vs tac 1on1 then?
Since it's physical damage, I'm going to tag it so that Biofilter Sweep removes the DoT, but I'm also considering allowing the DoT to be removed by an amount of healing received somewhere between one and two health bars. This gives the doff some counterplay in PvP, allowing the target to react to the ability being used on them.
You're making it so only science officers have a viable way to defend from it, which is not good. Everyone else will still get a sure death. Not instant, but they -will- die.
You can -not- avoid an Arcwave or a Lunge. You -can- avoid grenades, or sniper shots. You're making it so if the tac gets close enough for a Lunge or Arcwave, you're done, period. No way to escape. No hypos will save you since it doesn't heal close to one full health bar, let alone two, and they're on a base 30s recharge, which is way longer than the weakest doff duration of 18s.
The difference between the "base Ambush", and the "doff Ambush", is that there are ways to defend from the former from every career in the game. The doff Ambush, on the other hand, does PHYSICAL damage, which basically negates Engineers' shield-based defenses. Tacs will have a hard time with hypos for the reasons outlined above, and Scis will be the only ones capable of withstanding it.
I understand you made the DoT physical so it is viable against the Borg, who do not adapt to it or kinetic damage. But this was made without little consideration to PvP, where physical damage is very strong for its shield-penetrating properties. I'll assume you don't have the tech to make the DoT into an energy type that the Borg can't adapt to.
Please take into account you can slot THREE of those doffs. A skilled base Ambush gives a 150% bonus. A doff Ambush should NOT give 600% bonus, even as a DoT, and let alone be physical damage. You're giving a single ability way too many reliable advantages.
Suggestions:
- substantially decrease the damage bonus per doff - think of the 3x edge cases!
- increase the DoT duration (doing less damage per tick) so hypos can actually do something against it
- change the damage type from PHYSICAL to KINETIC; it's still usable against the Borg, and kinetic damage has less shield penetration, giving Engineers a better chance to withstand it, and more uses to Shield Charges.
A couple things - looks like there's definitely a weird edge case with this Doff and Plasma Grenade - Something about the way it's calculating damage or attaching stacks of damage is off. I'm looking into this. Also, in all cases, the DoT is double-dipping off of damage buffs, which I will also fix - since its damage is based off of the (post-multiplication) damage of your initial attack, there's no justification for the DoT to then get multiplied by your bonuses as well.
Not sure if you count skill points towards "buffs" but if you speak just about buffs.. the issue really is... if i as tac buff just this ambush (with 3 blue doffs up) and zero other buffs and hit an opponent ONCE with a shotgun the opponent will take 3x100 dmg per tick of the dot (assuming i was in aim mode) or 3x85 dmg (assuming i was even standing) which means the opponent is done after the 2nd tick.
This means in a tac vs tac 1on1 fight hitting the opponent ONCE (assuming battle strat is on cooldown) will be a fight-decider... and tbh thats just totally wrong, so you need to imo fix much more with that than just taking buffs out.
The doff should probably be limited to only one of its kind or its dmg should be reduced, 100% x 3 is just way to much.. unless the plan was to create a must-have doff and make any other doff obsolete as tac.
A couple things - looks like there's definitely a weird edge case with this Doff and Plasma Grenade - Something about the way it's calculating damage or attaching stacks of damage is off. I'm looking into this. Also, in all cases, the DoT is double-dipping off of damage buffs, which I will also fix - since its damage is based off of the (post-multiplication) damage of your initial attack, there's no justification for the DoT to then get multiplied by your bonuses as well.
Finally, there's the question of how to counter it when it's used on you. Since it's physical damage, I'm going to tag it so that Biofilter Sweep removes the DoT, but I'm also considering allowing the DoT to be removed by an amount of healing received somewhere between one and two health bars. This gives the doff some counterplay in PvP, allowing the target to react to the ability being used on them.
Thanks for looking into this. Is there any chance we could see a nerf in the extra damage dealt? +300% shield penetrating damage is a bit extreme even with counters. Perhaps +25% more damage per duty officer rather than +100%. The shield ignore is particularly harmful to engineers, as they rely on shield tanking to survive. Adding a cleanser to shield recharge, quick fix, and equipment diagnostics should help them out significantly.
See now the ground community will bare witness to the snb doff fiasco. Where it has to get nerfed multiple times to finally get it right. Just a testament to how hard this games pvp fails. It's quite a shame we were so close to good ground balance. But it's too late to close the pandora's box now just lke with the snb doffs.
Decrease substantially or completely floor the damage variation of the DoT, to avoid unexpected high damage spikes.
Yeah, why dont you all just remove any Tac officers ability to carry weapons?
This is why i NEVER ground pvp, tac officers was too dang squishy on ground, engineers and sci offers wailing on me and i just die, while the engineer can stand there and get wailed on and nothing happens, the sci can stand there and dish out heals, the tac officer?
Well the Tac officer dies, a lot.
Now the only decent damage maker we have now got is getting nerfed... by the wails and screams of the tanky eng and sci classes... before long the tac officers will be back to the same as before...tac officers who do little to no damage against eng and sci.
Thank you all for letting me continue to ignore ground pvp, i'll stick with space pvp, at least us tac officers still have a chance up there.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Yeah, why dont you all just remove any Tac officers ability to carry weapons?
This is why i NEVER ground pvp, tac officers was too dang squishy on ground, engineers and sci offers wailing on me and i just die, while the engineer can stand there and get wailed on and nothing happens, the sci can stand there and dish out heals, the tac officer?
Well the Tac officer dies, a lot.
Now the only decent damage maker we have now got is getting nerfed... by the wails and screams of the tanky eng and sci classes... before long the tac officers will be back to the same as before...tac officers who do little to no damage against eng and sci.
Thank you all for letting me continue to ignore ground pvp, i'll stick with space pvp, at least us tac officers still have a chance up there.
Okay I am starting to see ignorance is bliss for newbs in ground pvp. This must be another one of those guys who thinks tacts have a hypo every 15 seconds and they are done. Yes tacts have less tanking potential then engy or sci but that doesn't mean you can't do your own form of tanking. In fact the ability to spray suppressing fire on those same sci and engy you talk about killing you is key your survival. But that is just the very beginning of it. If you want quality tact training I can give you good builds. Teach you all the good tricks both clean and dirty (when necessary to combat other exploiters). Pm or mail me in game I should be around most of today. @angiewilliams
Yeah, why dont you all just remove any Tac officers ability to carry weapons?
This is why i NEVER ground pvp, tac officers was too dang squishy on ground, engineers and sci offers wailing on me and i just die, while the engineer can stand there and get wailed on and nothing happens, the sci can stand there and dish out heals, the tac officer?
Well the Tac officer dies, a lot.
Now the only decent damage maker we have now got is getting nerfed... by the wails and screams of the tanky eng and sci classes... before long the tac officers will be back to the same as before...tac officers who do little to no damage against eng and sci.
Thank you all for letting me continue to ignore ground pvp, i'll stick with space pvp, at least us tac officers still have a chance up there.
I don't mean to offend, but you don't seem to know what Tacs are capable of.
Tacs, Engis and Scis advantages operate in a circle like this (usually):
Tac -> Sci -> Eng -> Tac
So (again, usually) Tacs have advantage over Scis because they can overwhelm Sci healing. If you are not able to take down a healer, you're either not built for ground pvp, or is doing it wrong somehow.
Tacs have an disadvantage over Engis, specially the shield-tankers because shield-tanking is superior to armor-tanking due to it not having diminishing returns. Engis can withstand the Superbuff in most cases. You have to play with the gaps of the Engis abilities and strike when their shielding is on cooldown to have a chance. As for countering Weapons Malfunction, it's easier than you think. If you're being affected by WM, again, you need to learn how it works.
I do not think that the ambush officer is overpowered. I do not use it, but those who do I didn't notice until they told me. The only difference is it may take 1 more shot to kill them or so. Also, I think that the doff that should be removed is the item recharge one. Using a hypo every 15 seconds can turn a FT player into a tank (that shouldn't work!!!). Now if scis and engs say they can't tank the 450% boost then SUCKS FOR THEM!!!
-Florence@warfisawesome
P.S. People, don't whine about how you get killed to often in ground!
I don't mean to offend, but you don't seem to know what Tacs are capable of.
Tacs, Engis and Scis advantages operate in a circle like this (usually):
Tac -> Sci -> Eng -> Tac
So (again, usually) Tacs have advantage over Scis because they can overwhelm Sci healing. If you are not able to take down a healer, you're either not built for ground pvp, or is doing it wrong somehow.
Tacs have an disadvantage over Engis, specially the shield-tankers because shield-tanking is superior to armor-tanking due to it not having diminishing returns. Engis can withstand the Superbuff in most cases. You have to play with the gaps of the Engis abilities and strike when their shielding is on cooldown to have a chance. As for countering Weapons Malfunction, it's easier than you think. If you're being affected by WM, again, you need to learn how it works.
Well get on your equip tech kit with your engy and we can do a 1 on 1 with my tact. Let's see where your shield tank goes
I do not think that the ambush officer is overpowered. I do not use it, but those who do I didn't notice until they told me. The only difference is it may take 1 more shot to kill them or so. Also, I think that the doff that should be removed is the item recharge one. Using a hypo every 15 seconds can turn a FT player into a tank (that shouldn't work!!!). Now if scis and engs say they can't tank the 450% boost then SUCKS FOR THEM!!!
-Florence@warfisawesome
P.S. People, don't whine about how you get killed to often in ground!
I am sorry flo but as heavy user of this doff I can say it is drastically overpowered and the worst thing to hit ground pvp. It is even worse then the double cloak stacking (ambush + distortion field) we all used to do. See the video me and Kollins made in the ground concerns directory. He was on his medic sci. Currently battle strategies clears the debuff but more changes and a nerf is in the works. What is going to really suck about this is after they nerf it I already know how to get even harder ticks out of the dot.
I don't know, I am fine fighting the people who use it. BTW let me watch your duel :P
You are correct you are fine as long as your battle strategies is up. Us tact's currently have the only method of totally clearing it. I don't even know who this guy is actually I just know I have little problem taking any engy using any kit down 1 on 1.
Agreed. The only way engs can really kill anybody is if they call for help, they root and nuke ya, or you become overconfident and they blow you up with bombs. All of these things can be countered (i.e. motion accelerator, ESC, distortion field, using sniper rifle, etc.)
My Sci is running a full Ground Build (100k), with full Ground Traits (Including Medical Vanguard), full Omega MK XII, full Reputation (Omega, Romulan, Tholian) and 3 Medic DOFFS.
The tact is running a full Ground Build, with full ground Traits, 2 piece MACO Set and 3 GREEN Ambush DoT DOFFS. (See pic)
Comments
Tell everyone about the part where you logged out and the DOT stayed on you when you came back in XD
Okay. Just a little more clarification. If you implement this.....
So let's say a person uses a self heal hypo and tier 5 Omega heal on themselves. That could dispel it.
Now, what if a medic heals someone. Would that count towards the heal or is only personal heal?
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Somewhere between one and two health bars? Did you consider how this will affect tac vs tac 1on1 then?
The medic healing you would count towards it just as much as you healing yourself would.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
How about lowering the 100% dmg bonus from the doff to.... 10% ? :S
Naw I want to one shot bosses and players with even more damage than you can now :P LOL
You're making it so only science officers have a viable way to defend from it, which is not good. Everyone else will still get a sure death. Not instant, but they -will- die.
You can -not- avoid an Arcwave or a Lunge. You -can- avoid grenades, or sniper shots. You're making it so if the tac gets close enough for a Lunge or Arcwave, you're done, period. No way to escape. No hypos will save you since it doesn't heal close to one full health bar, let alone two, and they're on a base 30s recharge, which is way longer than the weakest doff duration of 18s.
The difference between the "base Ambush", and the "doff Ambush", is that there are ways to defend from the former from every career in the game. The doff Ambush, on the other hand, does PHYSICAL damage, which basically negates Engineers' shield-based defenses. Tacs will have a hard time with hypos for the reasons outlined above, and Scis will be the only ones capable of withstanding it.
I understand you made the DoT physical so it is viable against the Borg, who do not adapt to it or kinetic damage. But this was made without little consideration to PvP, where physical damage is very strong for its shield-penetrating properties. I'll assume you don't have the tech to make the DoT into an energy type that the Borg can't adapt to.
Please take into account you can slot THREE of those doffs. A skilled base Ambush gives a 150% bonus. A doff Ambush should NOT give 600% bonus, even as a DoT, and let alone be physical damage. You're giving a single ability way too many reliable advantages.
Suggestions:
- substantially decrease the damage bonus per doff - think of the 3x edge cases!
- increase the DoT duration (doing less damage per tick) so hypos can actually do something against it
- change the damage type from PHYSICAL to KINETIC; it's still usable against the Borg, and kinetic damage has less shield penetration, giving Engineers a better chance to withstand it, and more uses to Shield Charges.
STO Screenshot Archive
Not sure if you count skill points towards "buffs" but if you speak just about buffs.. the issue really is... if i as tac buff just this ambush (with 3 blue doffs up) and zero other buffs and hit an opponent ONCE with a shotgun the opponent will take 3x100 dmg per tick of the dot (assuming i was in aim mode) or 3x85 dmg (assuming i was even standing) which means the opponent is done after the 2nd tick.
This means in a tac vs tac 1on1 fight hitting the opponent ONCE (assuming battle strat is on cooldown) will be a fight-decider... and tbh thats just totally wrong, so you need to imo fix much more with that than just taking buffs out.
The doff should probably be limited to only one of its kind or its dmg should be reduced, 100% x 3 is just way to much.. unless the plan was to create a must-have doff and make any other doff obsolete as tac.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=774831
3x 35 = 105%, which is about 300% Ambush bonus (up from original 150%).
That would be a good start IMO.
STO Screenshot Archive
Tell everyone about the part where your fleet is filled with noob exploiters and always gets their a$$es handed to them by legit premades cupcake!
Still waiting on your premade sweetheart :P
I don't build premades I already did you kids with hammer and a few select times with fs
Ask doc who is on your ts3 with you guys now selling out. he knows what I helped hammer do to you.
Thanks for looking into this. Is there any chance we could see a nerf in the extra damage dealt? +300% shield penetrating damage is a bit extreme even with counters. Perhaps +25% more damage per duty officer rather than +100%. The shield ignore is particularly harmful to engineers, as they rely on shield tanking to survive. Adding a cleanser to shield recharge, quick fix, and equipment diagnostics should help them out significantly.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
You don't have to they and you guys know whats up
Decrease substantially or completely floor the damage variation of the DoT, to avoid unexpected high damage spikes.
STO Screenshot Archive
Yeah, why dont you all just remove any Tac officers ability to carry weapons?
This is why i NEVER ground pvp, tac officers was too dang squishy on ground, engineers and sci offers wailing on me and i just die, while the engineer can stand there and get wailed on and nothing happens, the sci can stand there and dish out heals, the tac officer?
Well the Tac officer dies, a lot.
Now the only decent damage maker we have now got is getting nerfed... by the wails and screams of the tanky eng and sci classes... before long the tac officers will be back to the same as before...tac officers who do little to no damage against eng and sci.
Thank you all for letting me continue to ignore ground pvp, i'll stick with space pvp, at least us tac officers still have a chance up there.
Okay I am starting to see ignorance is bliss for newbs in ground pvp. This must be another one of those guys who thinks tacts have a hypo every 15 seconds and they are done. Yes tacts have less tanking potential then engy or sci but that doesn't mean you can't do your own form of tanking. In fact the ability to spray suppressing fire on those same sci and engy you talk about killing you is key your survival. But that is just the very beginning of it. If you want quality tact training I can give you good builds. Teach you all the good tricks both clean and dirty (when necessary to combat other exploiters). Pm or mail me in game I should be around most of today. @angiewilliams
I don't mean to offend, but you don't seem to know what Tacs are capable of.
Tacs, Engis and Scis advantages operate in a circle like this (usually):
Tac -> Sci -> Eng -> Tac
So (again, usually) Tacs have advantage over Scis because they can overwhelm Sci healing. If you are not able to take down a healer, you're either not built for ground pvp, or is doing it wrong somehow.
Tacs have an disadvantage over Engis, specially the shield-tankers because shield-tanking is superior to armor-tanking due to it not having diminishing returns. Engis can withstand the Superbuff in most cases. You have to play with the gaps of the Engis abilities and strike when their shielding is on cooldown to have a chance. As for countering Weapons Malfunction, it's easier than you think. If you're being affected by WM, again, you need to learn how it works.
STO Screenshot Archive
-Florence@warfisawesome
P.S. People, don't whine about how you get killed to often in ground!
Well get on your equip tech kit with your engy and we can do a 1 on 1 with my tact. Let's see where your shield tank goes
I am sorry flo but as heavy user of this doff I can say it is drastically overpowered and the worst thing to hit ground pvp. It is even worse then the double cloak stacking (ambush + distortion field) we all used to do. See the video me and Kollins made in the ground concerns directory. He was on his medic sci. Currently battle strategies clears the debuff but more changes and a nerf is in the works. What is going to really suck about this is after they nerf it I already know how to get even harder ticks out of the dot.
You are correct you are fine as long as your battle strategies is up. Us tact's currently have the only method of totally clearing it. I don't even know who this guy is actually I just know I have little problem taking any engy using any kit down 1 on 1.
I did a test with a kitty friend:
http://youtu.be/Z6rLEY5-xXg
My Sci is running a full Ground Build (100k), with full Ground Traits (Including Medical Vanguard), full Omega MK XII, full Reputation (Omega, Romulan, Tholian) and 3 Medic DOFFS.
The tact is running a full Ground Build, with full ground Traits, 2 piece MACO Set and 3 GREEN Ambush DoT DOFFS. (See pic)
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4682/89a4.jpg