First off this belongs in the Romulan Flotilla section and second off why did you bother to create yet another "D'd turn rate sucks" thread. If you had bothered to search the forums you would have seen there are numerous thread on this topic already and many of them have a huge amount of information on how to increase the D'd turn rate without resorting to massive amounts of RCS consoles or the ludicrous "cloak to turn".
If you search for the "D'deridex turn rate.....again" thread under the Romulan Flotilla section you'll find everything you need to make the D'd turn perfectly fine.
And yes I could have simply linked the other thread, but obviously a refresher course in searching a forum was in order.
Seriously, what is the reason for this? The BOFF layouf isn't OP, the console set isn't OP, yet it has a turn rate worse than every Fed ship and is even our turned by a carrier!!! Couple that with the oh-so-low power levels that the warp core gives and you've got yourself a substandard ship. (I'm sorry, but those singularity powers don't come anywhere near compensating for the drastic lack of power you've got with Romulan ships.)
Crytpic, granted you never saw the D'deridex maneuver too many times on tv but when it did it didn't appear to move around like the crippled 3 legged dog you've portrayed it to be. Please, at least bump it up to 6 to equal the Exploration cruiser.
Please, name an episode, scene, movie, or whatever from official Star Trek tv shows and movies where the D'Deridex "didn't appear to move around like the crippled 3 legged dog."
I know the answer already. It's NONE. There has been no scene at all, whatsoever in all official Star Trek-dom, to include several battle scenes in TNG & DS9 (esp. DS9) that the Double-D had the chops to maneuver well. The Galaxy has justification to handle better in STO, because there's ample scenes where the Galaxy did pull off some nice maneuvering. The D'Deridex? NONE.
Now, as far as STO's versions of the Double-D, there are indeed ways on making it handle better. But I figured someone with your experience in this game would easily know that. There's been many pointers laid out on making this ship handle better, even the Commander-level, basic, non-C-Store version. Pointers laid out in threads such as these (1, 2)
There is nothing wrong with this ship. It can pull off many duties simultaneously due to its BOFF and Console layout. It takes work in making it handle better, but it's very easy.
I've laid the pointers out many times, including to those in zone chat at New Romulus Command struggling with the bird. I've put pointers in one of those threads I linked above. Pumping points into Starship Impulse Engines skill, for instance, would greatly help in the speed and turn rate of the ship, as it does with ALL ships you use. RCS console or two will greatly help, or throwing in a Tachyokinetic Converter at "endgame" to combine turn rate boosting with critical attack boosts. The Romulan campaign also liberally gives the player RCS Accelerator Consoles throughout. For levelling, RCS Accelerator Consoles can be had for cheap on the Exchange. Hell, if you're doing a traditional beamboat build, the ship almost doesn't need the RCS help, but 1 would make it much more easy due to the already generous arcs of this type of build.
But from trying to help people in turning around their issues with the D'Deridex, most are in fact those that refuse to adapt, change, or learn more of the game. I've come across those that refuse to put points into Starship Impulse Engines. I come across those that delete whatever RCS consoles they get, and when they DO realize they need them, refuse to buy one on the exchange for a cheap 20k EC.
My favorite was when I was actually told this by a fool in-game: "Why should I have to change or spend resources to make my ship better?"
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Like I said, judging by your post count, join date, I figured someone with your time in this game would have easily alleviated the problem of the D'Deridex's handling.
I just refer to it as the d'derpidex and call it a day. If I wanted to sure I could make it handle better, but why bother when I can just continue to fly a Mogai or Ambassador/Karamag and get better results? I'd rather fly a ship where I'm able to use Engineering consoles other than RCS and not have to rely on Cstore/Lobi consoles.
Of course, the main reason I don't use a d'derpidex is because I think it's hideously ugly, worse than the Galaxy.
Please, name an episode, scene, movie, or whatever from official Star Trek tv shows and movies where the D'Deridex "didn't appear to move around like the crippled 3 legged dog."
Developers can code anything and everything they want, but they can not fix the ID 10 T problem in the interface between the keyboard and chair.
D'deridex is fine with the stats it has. I suggest that any captain wanting to fly it, first try it while using beam arrays. Then once you have the tactics and timing down for cloaking and maneuvering you can try to fly it while using cannons.
The D'deridex ship stats don't need an adjustment. These ridiculous everything-must-be-cannonized-escort attitudes need the adjustment.
Quit trying to TRIBBLE in screws with a bloody hammer...use a screwdriver for that. If you want to drive in nails THEN you use a hammer. Right weapon for the right ship with the right tactics.
Next week is going to be a bloody nightmare when the Scimitar gets released with an even lower turn rate ...
It is at least twice as massive as the Galaxy class so it should have a much slower turn rate.
Heard that before , still don't believe it .
After all , the turn rate should be decided by the thrusters built into the sides of the ship .
What makes you think that such a gigantic ship , with so much surface for said thrusters would not have them installed ?
Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird turned pretty good for a ship its size.
You'll note that it only turned that well while practically standing...just like the Galaxy class which only exhibits a good turnrate while standing still.
Why all the whine when it has the same base turn rate as an Assault Cruiser, a ship which has gotten nowhere near as much hate? With only 1 Mk XII blue RCS, my Assault turns at 17.4 with no powers. Nothing stops the DD from doing near the same.
Why all the whine when it has the same base turn rate as an Assault Cruiser, a ship which has gotten nowhere near as much hate? With only 1 Mk XII blue RCS, my Assault turns at 17.4 with no powers. Nothing stops the DD from doing near the same.
Well, thats because it doesn't have the same base turn as the assault cruiser.
Assault cruiser = 7
D'd = 5.5
If you're stacking RCS consoles, you get significantly less bonus from them with a base of 5.5 rather than 7.
and 17.4 is no where near the realm of feasible in regards to DHCs. Allowing the ship to mount them without the turn rate to use them is just silly. Same goes for every cruiser with the same problem.
My point is, there is virtually no reason whatsoever to run with this ship. It has no redeeming quality that cannot be matched/outdone by the other rommie cruiser (can't recall the name, hakoona or something) or most of the other escorts. Hell the mogai can reach the same level of tanking ability with a much better turn rate, on a ship that is almost the same size.
Yes, you can get the D'd up to maybe 20 turn, which is almost respectable for DHCs. However, you have to sacrifice virtually every console slot to do it. You can make it it decent, but why bother when you can just fly something else to achieve the same result with much less effort?
There is a reason you don't see many refits/fleet version flying around. And given the fact that most people have it included with the legacy pack, and you still don't see it should tell you something.
Consoles like the tachyokinetic converter help but when when you're adding a percentage of a dismal number the improve just doesn't validate it. 22.9% of 5.5? A whopping increase of 1.26.
The new ultra violet eng consoles solve your problem. Get RCS consoles that now have +res. You no longer sac survivablity for turnrate. 3 RCS consoles with +ResA or ResK will be like having 2 armor consoles + 3 RCS.
42.5% turnrate + 10 kenetic resist = win. Only problem. Every escort is gonna shove their ship full of them to lol. Be prepared for it.
BoPs are BoPs, Warbirds are Warbirds, Destroyers are Destroyers, Escorts are Escorts, Carriers are Carriers, Sci ships are Sci ships, Cruisers are Cruisers and the Defiant shouldn't have a battle cloak (had to get that one in). If you don't understand that then you will never be happy about whatever you ship you fly. The D'deridex was fine at Captain - and, the Elachi teleport tedium actually HELPED me learn how to use that ship - and when I get my Fleet one, I'm sure that will be fine too. Why? Because I will look at my weaknesses and try to either remove them, and if I can't do that, then I will adapt my use and strategy for the ship to compensate for them. In other words, I will use the ship for what it can do and stop trying to get it to do something that it can't. Anyone who has ever played as an Engineer or a Sci captain in a serious way with class associated ship (not just rolling one to try it out for a while) will know exactly what I mean.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
The D'deridex is a absolute joy to fly and I can't say I've had any problems with the turn rate. But then I'm using the cloak. Don't have any special consoles just basic captain skills.
BoPs are BoPs, Warbirds are Warbirds, Destroyers are Destroyers, Escorts are Escorts, Carriers are Carriers, Sci ships are Sci ships, Cruisers are Cruisers and the Defiant shouldn't have a battle cloak (had to get that one in). If you don't understand that then you will never be happy about whatever you ship you fly. The D'deridex was fine at Captain - and, the Elachi teleport tedium actually HELPED me learn how to use that ship - and when I get my Fleet one, I'm sure that will be fine too. Why? Because I will look at my weaknesses and try to either remove them, and if I can't do that, then I will adapt my use and strategy for the ship to compensate for them. In other words, I will use the ship for what it can do and stop trying to get it to do something that it can't. Anyone who has ever played as an Engineer or a Sci captain in a serious way with class associated ship (not just rolling one to try it out for a while) will know exactly what I mean.
Been flying this ship for a while and it is huge. It does force you to modify your play and I am pretty sure it has a bulls eye painted somewhere on it because PVE is very "active".
I haven't researched how to make it turn better, but cloak is used a lot.. funny thing is I had cloak available on kdf but rarely used.. I guess that's why I continue to fly it, it forces me to think differently.
I do see myself getting a different ship soon, but I just don't play much.. perhaps 30min-1hr a day.
"Oh,it says the ship can use dual cannons.....I want it I want it I want it I want it I want it I want it I want it I want it...and I want it NOW!....WHAAHHH....it turns too slow for me to use the dual heavies I stole from the fleet bank....WHAAAHHHH....the ship sucks and I want my money back...WHAAAHH!!!!"
Just because a ship can use something,doesn't mean it should be good at it with no bloody effort.
I wish parents would stop their kids from eating lead paint chips...it causes serious whining.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
As much as I consider it a bad ship for reasons OTHER than it's turn rate, I just have to wonder why anyone would want to use dual cannons on it. It's like throwing them on a Vo'Quv, which can also use them and has a similarly abysmal turn rate, and being surprised when it doesn't work. It can almost pull off a DBB build but is much more efficient with arrays.
Though it does amuse me that the retrofit has a totally different boff layout, almost to the point of being a different ship entirely aside from the skin and turn rate.
I dont see the problem i used the ship at captain level and i never flew a cruiser before i did use 2 dhc and had no prob using them the cloak , evasive and aux to inertial plus had 2 rcs consoles on it did not have issues with singualarity jumps my ship has those powers as well plus evasive , engine batt will turn the ship around quickly i guess i never really stepped into the ship trying to make it more escort like though at long range it can easly be at close combat i changed tactics overall i had a good time in this ship i also think it looks great. Anyway i am a casual player iam sure peope out there can turn this big lady into a absolute wrecking ball.
Wow, I can't believe me suggesting that the ship get a 0.5 increase to turn rate would attract so much polarised attention.
That's right. 0.5.
I don't want the ship turned in to an escort. That would require an increase of of around 10. Not 0.5.
I don't want to turn the ship in to something it's not. I just believe that it should match the turn rate of the galaxy and it definitely shouldn't be out-turned by ANY carrier. (I'm talking about dedicated carriers, not the smaller ships with a single carrier bay.) Equal to the the best truning carrier, yes, out-performed by it, no.
I hardly call a 0.5 increase a game changer, but it's enough to elevate the ship from sub-par to average.
<snipped>
I hardly call a 0.5 increase a game changer, but it's enough to elevate the ship from sub-par to average.
If an RCS console which can add almost that "+0.5 Turn" to the DD's turn rate is not acceptable enough for you to consider the DD as an "average" ship, why should the devs bother to add anything to the base stats? You already have options and choices with which to make or improve any ships stats.
There are new RCS consoles coming today that offer +42% Turn PLUS +21 Kinetic resistance (or some other +Res buffs). While they are Mk XII consoles and require fleet provision purchasing rights, perhaps these can boost the D'deridex turn rate up into your comfort zone?
There are new RCS consoles coming today that offer +42% Turn PLUS +21 Kinetic resistance (or some other +Res buffs). While they are Mk XII consoles and require fleet provision purchasing rights, perhaps these can boost the D'deridex turn rate up into your comfort zone?
Well, way I understood it, it will take a few months before unlocking all those goodies (like wicked neutronium-laced stuff too); but as an engineer I'm eagerly looking forward to them all.
My Romulan science officer flies a fleet D'Deridex with dual heavy cannons, a quantum torpedo launcher fore, and three turrets with a borg cutting beam aft. I use two RCS consoles and a tachyokinetic converter to boost my turn rate. Proper use of your battle cloak, tractor beams, as well as having a gravity well at your disposal makes this ship mobile enough to dish out the dps the cannons can offer. If you want an escort, get an escort. In this game they're already too tanky.
Well, way I understood it, it will take a few months before unlocking all those goodies (like wicked neutronium-laced stuff too); but as an engineer I'm eagerly looking forward to them all.
I missed the the Mk X and Mk XI versions, which should be available fairly quickly.
The major point that I was trying to make is that there are options already available, and more coming, to improve the stats for any ship you fly. The challenge is in learning the game mechanics well enough to make informed decisions on which options to use.
This thread needs to be renamed to "Elitists Tell me i am doing it wrong". Yes the D'derpidex has a bad turn rate, made me think i was flying my Vo'quv without my 4 bops it was so bad. For If you want to fly an escort get an escort replies How about this. Make a new account free ofcourse and roll a romulan tac captain. at level 30 buy an escort with the token you get. Try it. No really try to get an escort with the token. Oh wait you cant because the token only works on Romulan ships and there is NO escort for level 30 romulans unless you grind the dilithium to buy an aligned faction escort. By the time you grind the dilithium you can get the Ha'feh which is a sweet ship.
But really the ship should not turn like a Vo'quv and telling people how to make it turn better is just blindly ignoring the fact that it should turn better to begin with and without any consoles added or points in skills. It is a cruiser not a carrier and should turn as good as any other cruiser.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
But really the ship should not turn like a Vo'quv and telling people how to make it turn better is just blindly ignoring the fact that it should turn better to begin with and without any consoles added or points in skills. It is a cruiser not a carrier and should turn as good as any other cruiser.
So,according to you if a relabel an oil tanker and call it a speedboat,it should turn just as well?
If you can't handle the lady,don't date her and leave her to more capable hands.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Look, folks, when I flew a D'D, I tried to treat it like a cruiser. Beam arrays, torpedo forward, torpedo aft - it didn't matter, because the key to flying a cruiser is to be able to change your shield facings, and you can't do that if you can't turn.
I'm not looking for an Escort, I don't care for them; I'm not mounting DHCs because while they do a lot of damage, they have a very narrow arc of fire. I just want a cruiser that turns like a cruiser, not a planet.
Oh, and not everyone is an Admiral, with a Tier 5 craft and unlimited Dil and Zen, and not everyone belongs to a top-level fleet that can hand them all the top consoles on a latinum platter. Some of us are trying to fly with what the game gives us - and at Commander, if you don't want to spend money or spend lots of time grinding, you can either keep your Mogai or take a D'D with all of its flaws, because the Romulans get no other free options. My Fed can select from a Cruiser, a Science ship, or an Escort; my Klink has an array of craft available; my Rom is offered a D'D. Catch the issue here?
Comments
If you search for the "D'deridex turn rate.....again" thread under the Romulan Flotilla section you'll find everything you need to make the D'd turn perfectly fine.
And yes I could have simply linked the other thread, but obviously a refresher course in searching a forum was in order.
Please, name an episode, scene, movie, or whatever from official Star Trek tv shows and movies where the D'Deridex "didn't appear to move around like the crippled 3 legged dog."
I know the answer already. It's NONE. There has been no scene at all, whatsoever in all official Star Trek-dom, to include several battle scenes in TNG & DS9 (esp. DS9) that the Double-D had the chops to maneuver well. The Galaxy has justification to handle better in STO, because there's ample scenes where the Galaxy did pull off some nice maneuvering. The D'Deridex? NONE.
Now, as far as STO's versions of the Double-D, there are indeed ways on making it handle better. But I figured someone with your experience in this game would easily know that. There's been many pointers laid out on making this ship handle better, even the Commander-level, basic, non-C-Store version. Pointers laid out in threads such as these (1, 2)
There is nothing wrong with this ship. It can pull off many duties simultaneously due to its BOFF and Console layout. It takes work in making it handle better, but it's very easy.
I've laid the pointers out many times, including to those in zone chat at New Romulus Command struggling with the bird. I've put pointers in one of those threads I linked above. Pumping points into Starship Impulse Engines skill, for instance, would greatly help in the speed and turn rate of the ship, as it does with ALL ships you use. RCS console or two will greatly help, or throwing in a Tachyokinetic Converter at "endgame" to combine turn rate boosting with critical attack boosts. The Romulan campaign also liberally gives the player RCS Accelerator Consoles throughout. For levelling, RCS Accelerator Consoles can be had for cheap on the Exchange. Hell, if you're doing a traditional beamboat build, the ship almost doesn't need the RCS help, but 1 would make it much more easy due to the already generous arcs of this type of build.
But from trying to help people in turning around their issues with the D'Deridex, most are in fact those that refuse to adapt, change, or learn more of the game. I've come across those that refuse to put points into Starship Impulse Engines. I come across those that delete whatever RCS consoles they get, and when they DO realize they need them, refuse to buy one on the exchange for a cheap 20k EC.
My favorite was when I was actually told this by a fool in-game: "Why should I have to change or spend resources to make my ship better?"
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Like I said, judging by your post count, join date, I figured someone with your time in this game would have easily alleviated the problem of the D'Deridex's handling.
Of course, the main reason I don't use a d'derpidex is because I think it's hideously ugly, worse than the Galaxy.
The Defector
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKwSJswQIY
Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird turned pretty good for a ship its size.
Someone will say it was using evasive maneuvers :P
D'deridex is fine with the stats it has. I suggest that any captain wanting to fly it, first try it while using beam arrays. Then once you have the tactics and timing down for cloaking and maneuvering you can try to fly it while using cannons.
The D'deridex ship stats don't need an adjustment. These ridiculous everything-must-be-cannonized-escort attitudes need the adjustment.
Quit trying to TRIBBLE in screws with a bloody hammer...use a screwdriver for that. If you want to drive in nails THEN you use a hammer. Right weapon for the right ship with the right tactics.
Next week is going to be a bloody nightmare when the Scimitar gets released with an even lower turn rate ...
Heard that before , still don't believe it .
After all , the turn rate should be decided by the thrusters built into the sides of the ship .
What makes you think that such a gigantic ship , with so much surface for said thrusters would not have them installed ?
You'll note that it only turned that well while practically standing...just like the Galaxy class which only exhibits a good turnrate while standing still.
Well, thats because it doesn't have the same base turn as the assault cruiser.
Assault cruiser = 7
D'd = 5.5
If you're stacking RCS consoles, you get significantly less bonus from them with a base of 5.5 rather than 7.
and 17.4 is no where near the realm of feasible in regards to DHCs. Allowing the ship to mount them without the turn rate to use them is just silly. Same goes for every cruiser with the same problem.
My point is, there is virtually no reason whatsoever to run with this ship. It has no redeeming quality that cannot be matched/outdone by the other rommie cruiser (can't recall the name, hakoona or something) or most of the other escorts. Hell the mogai can reach the same level of tanking ability with a much better turn rate, on a ship that is almost the same size.
Yes, you can get the D'd up to maybe 20 turn, which is almost respectable for DHCs. However, you have to sacrifice virtually every console slot to do it. You can make it it decent, but why bother when you can just fly something else to achieve the same result with much less effort?
There is a reason you don't see many refits/fleet version flying around. And given the fact that most people have it included with the legacy pack, and you still don't see it should tell you something.
Just trying to help.
42.5% turnrate + 10 kenetic resist = win. Only problem. Every escort is gonna shove their ship full of them to lol. Be prepared for it.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
The D'deridex is a absolute joy to fly and I can't say I've had any problems with the turn rate. But then I'm using the cloak. Don't have any special consoles just basic captain skills.
Haha I like this guy.
I haven't researched how to make it turn better, but cloak is used a lot.. funny thing is I had cloak available on kdf but rarely used.. I guess that's why I continue to fly it, it forces me to think differently.
I do see myself getting a different ship soon, but I just don't play much.. perhaps 30min-1hr a day.
Just because a ship can use something,doesn't mean it should be good at it with no bloody effort.
I wish parents would stop their kids from eating lead paint chips...it causes serious whining.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Seriously, any person so lazy as to not look up the stats of his prospective ship, PRIOR to buying it, is not worth said ship to begin with.
Though it does amuse me that the retrofit has a totally different boff layout, almost to the point of being a different ship entirely aside from the skin and turn rate.
That's right. 0.5.
I don't want the ship turned in to an escort. That would require an increase of of around 10. Not 0.5.
I don't want to turn the ship in to something it's not. I just believe that it should match the turn rate of the galaxy and it definitely shouldn't be out-turned by ANY carrier. (I'm talking about dedicated carriers, not the smaller ships with a single carrier bay.) Equal to the the best truning carrier, yes, out-performed by it, no.
I hardly call a 0.5 increase a game changer, but it's enough to elevate the ship from sub-par to average.
If an RCS console which can add almost that "+0.5 Turn" to the DD's turn rate is not acceptable enough for you to consider the DD as an "average" ship, why should the devs bother to add anything to the base stats? You already have options and choices with which to make or improve any ships stats.
There are new RCS consoles coming today that offer +42% Turn PLUS +21 Kinetic resistance (or some other +Res buffs). While they are Mk XII consoles and require fleet provision purchasing rights, perhaps these can boost the D'deridex turn rate up into your comfort zone?
Well, way I understood it, it will take a few months before unlocking all those goodies (like wicked neutronium-laced stuff too); but as an engineer I'm eagerly looking forward to them all.
I missed the the Mk X and Mk XI versions, which should be available fairly quickly.
The major point that I was trying to make is that there are options already available, and more coming, to improve the stats for any ship you fly. The challenge is in learning the game mechanics well enough to make informed decisions on which options to use.
Stick with your escorts if you can't handle a real lady!
But really the ship should not turn like a Vo'quv and telling people how to make it turn better is just blindly ignoring the fact that it should turn better to begin with and without any consoles added or points in skills. It is a cruiser not a carrier and should turn as good as any other cruiser.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
So,according to you if a relabel an oil tanker and call it a speedboat,it should turn just as well?
If you can't handle the lady,don't date her and leave her to more capable hands.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
I'm not looking for an Escort, I don't care for them; I'm not mounting DHCs because while they do a lot of damage, they have a very narrow arc of fire. I just want a cruiser that turns like a cruiser, not a planet.
Oh, and not everyone is an Admiral, with a Tier 5 craft and unlimited Dil and Zen, and not everyone belongs to a top-level fleet that can hand them all the top consoles on a latinum platter. Some of us are trying to fly with what the game gives us - and at Commander, if you don't want to spend money or spend lots of time grinding, you can either keep your Mogai or take a D'D with all of its flaws, because the Romulans get no other free options. My Fed can select from a Cruiser, a Science ship, or an Escort; my Klink has an array of craft available; my Rom is offered a D'D. Catch the issue here?