It sounds very similar to a VISA scam my mom was a part of. They wanted you to use their "Rewards" card to pay. And not with debit but a charge. (because they can charge the merchant 5 cents for a charge)
So if you spent $2000 you would get a $10 gift certificate.
On top of that you had to pay a $25 yearly fee.
I kept trying to explain to her that she could just skip the fee and any possible interest charge and then simply use the $25 to buy what ever junk the gift certificate would have gotten her.
All we are doing grinding stuff out to open another store that we have to grind to be able to buy stuff.
IMO Cryptics purpose is to take as much Dilithium away as they can so people will be more inclined to spend real cash on Zen. or require so much dilithium that people spend money on Zen to convert. Its all about making people buy Zen.
The system IS designed to make them money - it's a business - that's their whole point for opperating. Dan Stahl gave a presentation at the PWE shareholders meeting that they would make approx $2800 per starbase - can't be more clearly laid out than that.
Based on numbers available on Tribble, it breaks down roughly as follows:
The cost to complete the Mine in it's entirety is roughly 4.5 million dilithium. The cost of completing an entire T5 starbase plus an embassy is 29 million dilithium.
With a 15% discount, you will save 4.36 million dilithium, for a net loss of roughly 150k dilithium. That's the max "discount". The more of the starbase and embassy you have completed prior to finishing the mine, the more dilithium you will lose.
In other words, you waste a great deal of time only to get to pay extra for your "cheaper" starbase.
grrr.... So, what Cryptic ultimately did was move the discounted cost from the fleet base to the dilithium mine. It is what I theorized.
According to the numbers you have seen, the overall discount you obtain is a cost increase.
The system IS designed to make them money - it's a business - that's their whole point for opperating. Dan Stahl gave a presentation at the PWE shareholders meeting that they would make approx $2800 per starbase - can't be more clearly laid out than that.
According to this particular game mechanic's advertising, dilithium mine, the new system's projects were designed to give us a discount. If we go by what players have witnessed, while playing it on Tribble, the dilithium mine increases (not discounts) the overall costs to building the fleet base.
Again, I hope Cryptic gives us more specifics, so that people will be able to make a more informed decision.
If what stirling191 is saying is true, Cryptic is only shifting the costs and resource requirements from one holding to another one. You only get the shift in resource requirements and costs by spending them on another holding.
We need a table of hard numbers and percentages to be posted on the company's site.
What people are also miss is the cool down time associated with the dilithium mine projects. Instead of completing a T5 fleet base within two years (just a guess), small fleets may be hitting the end in two and a half years (just a guess).
More projects = More Resource Requirements = More time needed to hit fleet base T5.
I was under the impression that the discount would also apply to ALL purchases at the starbase:
So Fleet ships would cost less dilithium
Fleet gear would cost less dilithium
Weapons would cost less dilithium
Provision assignments would cost less total reasources
Add all this up and you get a savings - the more you use the more you save.
ok... it doesnt take an economics degree to see the FLAW in your logic.
Lets say I save 2K dilith on a weapon. Not really a big deal in the first place but I am only going to buy that weapon ONCE. So if it costs 18K instead of 20K is not really an issue. One more day of grinding.
To get the said "discount" I would probably have to spend 10X that amount. So I might spend 500K dilithum to save maybe 20K on stuff I would buy.
Its like using a "Rent to Own" store. You end up paying $2000 for that $500 TV
DStahl said the holding was specifically made to help out small fleets. You said "its not about breaking even on dilithium". My point is that your comment is ridiculous.
And I still maintain it's not about breaking even on dilithium (now *there's* a ridiculous supposition: that Cryptic would basically fund you the dilithium for free), but about the new gear that comes with it.
As was said already, this was all meant for 25+ member fleets to begin with.
And funny that, I sometimes get the same angry reactions when I tell ppl in zone not to start their own fleet, but better to join an existing, larger one. For example, our last Tier 5 project cost 1,800,000 dilithium, and 24,000 fleet marks. And you know what?! It was filled within the hour; because even at 18k a pop (assuming 100 members) that huge dilithium requirement is suddenly met easily.
It's not my fault you're in a smaller fleet. Don't take it out on me, please.
And funny that, I sometimes get the same angry reactions when I tell ppl in zone not to start their own fleet, but better to join an existing, larger one...
If someone at Cryptic said that publicly, I would consider that type of thinking as a cop-out.
Why do you not want smaller fleets to exist?
More fleets = more diversity = more competition = more fun.
Even though 500 people can belong to a fleet, only one person can actually control and own a fleet. According to the infographic released in January 2013, the number of fleets that exists is roughly 16,000. I am sure the number has increased. Only one problem... Only 16,000 people out of 2 million players physically own fleets. Really? Other words, less than roughly 0.25% of the population owns a fleet. I do not call that a diversity in options.
First we were told Romulans were going to be a full faction.....yeah okay then where are Rom fleets and Rom fleet bases?
Then we were told this Dilithium Mine holding was going to make a significant difference for smaller fleet (presumably 25 members and lower)........What delusional planet are ya'll living on?
Plenty of people have run the numbers and all have come up with the same thing, it saves you nothing fleet wise. Sure you'll save on individual items, but nothing fleetwise, not really. Small fleets suffer not only from the astronomical resource costs of the fleet system, but also with all the top end gear involved there is no incentive for people to join smaller fleets.
The larger fleets will sail through this without much of a problem and then the divide between smaller and larger fleets will just explode more than it already has. I'm not trying to be cruel to larger fleets, but there needs to be some incentive over the larger and uber fleets, and this could and should have been it. I congratulate the larger fleets for completing or near completing their bases and understand they've spend huge sums of resources to do so, but fleet bases should be social hubs, not mansions for the rich to show off how much better they think they are over the lower class (smaller fleets).
The discounts from this fleet holding should have a very significant reduction on fleet base resource requirements, like I said the large, mega, and uber fleets already have theirs, now it's time to level it off for the smaller guys. The big boys can get their discounts later on.
I think it's time Cryptic finally publicly admits the fleet system was NEVER designed around the magical "25 person" fleets with members playing a few hours a week they claimed it was and finally release some honest information, Apologize for being misleading when saying this would help smaller fleets, and correct it accordingly.
I'm still hopeful in the potential I see in this game, but to be perfectly honest my confidence in some of the recent decisions is slipping to say the least.
IMO Cryptics purpose is to take as much Dilithium away as they can so people will be more inclined to spend real cash on Zen. or require so much dilithium that people spend money on Zen to convert. Its all about making people buy Zen.
My question is, why do you expect anything else? Cryptic is a company... companies must make money to survive, profit to expand... I don't understand why people look at any type of addition as a bad thing... of course they want you to spend money... it would be silly if they didn't. The company WILL be profitable.. if that means they lay devs off, go to tier B facilties, etc etc in order to meet expenses... thats what happens. If it continues to lose money, the servers are shut down, and the game ends.
Cryptic/PWE is doing nothing different than any other gaming company out there, short of selling ad space on the side of ESD, or Billboard on Q'onos.
You can make the choice whether or not to spend, whether or not to grind. Please don't make this out to be that Cryptic is forcing you to do anything... If you don't want to grind... don't. Trust me on this, if they feel that the money earned on this particular venture drops... they'll lower the costs in hopes of reigniting support for it. Why do you think there are LTS Sales, or Lockbox Key sales?
I love this idea, not a short fix but something that with effort gives returns. The gear looks like it will bring in some new fun to the game, looking forward to the mining doffs. keep up the good work Cryptic, I may have to cut coffee from the budget again to put some more money into the game.
Space is vast, it's wonderful and maddening. Yet in that madness is some of the greatest beauty I have ever seen.
ok... it doesnt take an economics degree to see the FLAW in your logic.
Lets say I save 2K dilith on a weapon. Not really a big deal in the first place but I am only going to buy that weapon ONCE. So if it costs 18K instead of 20K is not really an issue. One more day of grinding.
To get the said "discount" I would probably have to spend 10X that amount. So I might spend 500K dilithum to save maybe 20K on stuff I would buy.
Its like using a "Rent to Own" store. You end up paying $2000 for that $500 TV
No it's not flawed based on what Dan Stahl has said is there set fleet starbase size of 25.
It's a force multiplyer - maybe you save 4000 dilthium on that 35,000 item
How many are you going to buy? Maybe 10 items total for yourself and alts over time - or 40,000 dilithium saved on just that gear
40,000 times 25 people = 1 million dilithium saved just on those purchases.
And if you are not buying lots of gear and weapons and stuff - why the heck would you have a starbase? All starbases are is expensive stores - nothing more - not social hubs - not event locations - not even the super fleets have many people at the starbase ever. My KDF fleet has 400+ members and a week from full completion of T5 - the whole thing - maybe there is 2 people at the base at once - maybe.
So all a starbase is - a store - if you are not buying lots of stuff - you don't NEED it!
In other words, you waste a great deal of time only to get to pay extra for your "cheaper" starbase.
How about you just don't do the extra fleet holding then? You won't save anything, but you won't increase your costs either, right? Instant advantage over all those other stupid fleets who dump resources into a new holding.
Hm, That said, why are we doing the upgrade of the embassy again?
And really, we don't need the starbase at all either.
Think about all those resources you save by NOT doing any of that fleet stuff?
That is a 100% savings!!!! Best deal ever!
Based on numbers available on Tribble, it breaks down roughly as follows:
The cost to complete the Mine in it's entirety is roughly 4.5 million dilithium. The coast of completing an entire T5 starbase plus an embassy is 29 million dilithium.
With a 15% discount, you will save 4.36 million dilithium, for a net loss of roughly 150k dilithium. That's the max "discount". The more of the starbase and embassy you have completed prior to finishing the mine, the more dilithium you will lose.
In other words, you waste a great deal of time only to get to pay extra for your "cheaper" starbase.
Once again, please explain how adding a mechanic that actually increases the cost and time to complete something is somehow helping to make that completion faster and cheaper.
You are correct with holdings AS THEY EXIST TODAY. However, it has been stated that the discounts will apply to all future holdings as well. Dstahl has been quoted multiple times about additional holdings (beyond this particular holding).
How about you just don't do the extra fleet holding then? You won't save anything, but you won't increase your costs either, right? Instant advantage over all those other stupid fleets who dump resources into a new holding.
Hm, That said, why are we doing the upgrade of the embassy again?
And really, we don't need the starbase at all either.
Think about all those resources you save by NOT doing any of that fleet stuff?
That is a 100% savings!!!! Best deal ever!
Best Answer yet!!
Hey news flash - if you avoid starbases you will save 100%!!!
How about you just don't do the extra fleet holding then? You won't save anything, but you won't increase your costs either, right? Instant advantage over all those other stupid fleets who dump resources into a new holding.
Hm, That said, why are we doing the upgrade of the embassy again?
And really, we don't need the starbase at all either.
Think about all those resources you save by NOT doing any of that fleet stuff?
That is a 100% savings!!!! Best deal ever!
Congratulations on completely ignoring everyone who is already struggling to meet the current resource burden.
You are correct with holdings AS THEY EXIST TODAY. However, it has been stated that the discounts will apply to all future holdings as well. Dstahl has been quoted multiple times about additional holdings (beyond this particular holding).
I'll quote myself from the Tribble boards instead of retyping it...
the mine was repeatedly described as the means by which the resource burden on fleets would be significantly reduced in the short term. That doesn't mean "well, when we've added in five more fleet holdings over the next five years you'll have paid slightly less than you would have without this addition". It means "here's a mechanic we're adding to significantly reduce the amount of input you need right now, to such a degree that you're seeing benefits from day one".
The current implementation of the mine is the former, not the latter.
If someone at Cryptic said that publicly, I would consider that type of thinking as a cop-out.
Why do you not want smaller fleets to exist?
More fleets = more diversity = more competition = more fun.
Even though 500 people can belong to a fleet, only one person can actually control and own a fleet. According to the infographic released in January 2013, the number of fleets that exists is roughly 16,000. I am sure the number has increased. Only one problem... Only 16,000 people out of 2 million players physically own fleets. Really? Other words, less than roughly 0.25% of the population owns a fleet. I do not call that a diversity in options.
What competition between fleets? I've yet to see anything that pits my fleet against a KDF fleet (short of PvP premade (which are ruled by a few PvP centric fleets/players (nothing against them... but my casual fleet is not up to that level of PvP, and they aren't wanting to get there for the most part). My hats off to the PvP'ers, min/maxers... I enjoy PvP myself... but recognize that my fleet is not a PvP centric one. So if it isn't PvP... there is no competition out there?
What Diversity? We have access to the same gear, same aesthetics... we even arrange the furniture...
What Fun? We're all too busy feeding the beast to stop and really have some fun.
Now, I do think that if you want to start a fleet, by all means do so... but you should be aware of the hill you are about to climb. It can be a daunting climb, especially when starting out.
To make matters worse, there are multiple factors leading to slowing of donations (iow - Fleet progression) including advanced fleets selling access to their unlocked stores (serves the immediate gratification need, why grind to T5 if I can pay 10-15 Mil for access to a fleet with T5 ships), new reputation systems, new faction... the later 3 competing for time/resoruces.
I'll quote myself from the Tribble boards instead of retyping it...
Its a semantics argument. I think we are trying to split hairs... on what "significant" means.
Will the dilithium mine save you something... yes... eventually... but it WILL save... might not exactly Pay for itself... unless you are starting from scratch (i.e. a new fleet), or possibly a small fleet still at T1. You still have a haul in front of you. If you are in thos position halt progress on everything and focus on the mine to get the maximum savings.
If you fund the entire project yourself... yeah you'll be waiting a long time to see any benefit, if you spread that cost out over 25 players... the cost/benefit ratio improves.
If you are already an advanced fleet, chances are you will never entirely recoup your investment in a fully tricked out dilithium mine, through savings. So that shouldn't be your goal in regards to the new holding. Rather, you should focus on the benefit of the consoles, and other perks.
Edit: I've also never seen a dev/pwe employee post that clearly stated the purpose was to significantly reduce cost of advancing fleet holdings in the "short term". I may have missed it, can you provide a link?
If you're snarkily implying the Bottleneck for ALL fleets are Fleetmarks, like you tried to argue in the Dil Mine feedback thread, then you are wrong. Different fleets have different bottlnecks. If anything, that evidence for the system working well; If everybody had trouble with one thing, then its probably broken. If Many Different people have problems getting different inputs, then that's reflective of what effort they are willing and not willing to put in.
If you're snarkily implying the Bottleneck for ALL fleets are Fleetmarks, like you tried to argue in the Dil Mine feedback thread, then you are wrong. Different fleets have different bottlnecks. If anything, that evidence for the system working well; If everybody had trouble with one thing, then its probably broken. If Many Different people have problems getting different inputs, then that's reflective of what effort they are willing and not willing to put in.
Or it just shows that time as a resource is not enough to cover all your bases at once. You have to make compromises either with dilithium, doffs, marks, ec. You have to deal with a bottleneck, you just can choose which one, but ultimately it comes down to: there is a bottleneck and therein lies he nature of things.
The game is not designed to let you finish with something, but to keep us busy indefinitely.
The moment you are done you get bored and Cryptic loses money.
The tricky part for Cryptic is to keep us busy without getting bored.
What competition between fleets? I've yet to see anything that pits my fleet against a KDF fleet (short of PvP premade (which are ruled by a few PvP centric fleets/players (nothing against them... but my casual fleet is not up to that level of PvP, and they aren't wanting to get there for the most part). My hats off to the PvP'ers, min/maxers... I enjoy PvP myself... but recognize that my fleet is not a PvP centric one. So if it isn't PvP... there is no competition out there?
What Diversity? We have access to the same gear, same aesthetics... we even arrange the furniture...
When I was referring to competition, I was focusing on the recruiting options. I was not being clear. I apologize.
How I would open the game up for more fleets, fleet bases, resources, and recruitment options: Just a suggestion to Cryptic.
First, I would reduce the fleet membership cap from 500 to 250.
Second, as a direct result of reducing the fleet membership cap, I would also reduce the fleet base resource requirements to accommodate 20 - 250 members.
Third, I would restrict the number of fleets a player can own to two. One Fed/One KDF.
Fourth, I would move the dilithium mine projects into the fleet base, and just give everyone an overall discount.
New and old players are getting tired of grinding and slow game progression. While my suggestions may seem controversial to big fleet owners, the small fleet owners (also those thinking about owning a fleet) will benefit. Remember, I am just throwing these suggestions out there; thus, do not take them as if they are demands. I am sure other people can come up with better solutions.
If you're snarkily implying the Bottleneck for ALL fleets are Fleetmarks, like you tried to argue in the Dil Mine feedback thread, then you are wrong. Different fleets have different bottlnecks. If anything, that evidence for the system working well; If everybody had trouble with one thing, then its probably broken. If Many Different people have problems getting different inputs, then that's reflective of what effort they are willing and not willing to put in.
having three non-optional fleet projects costing over 500k dil with another 3-4 non-optional projects costing over 150k dil each is not a bottleneck it's a problem in the system. and that's just the Tier 1/Tier 2 upgrades.
Some of it definitely comes down to how much people are willing to work for certain parts, others seriously need to be addressed and recalculated.
And I still maintain it's not about breaking even on dilithium (now *there's* a ridiculous supposition: that Cryptic would basically fund you the dilithium for free), but about the new gear that comes with it.
I agree. The dilithium cost for this holding is there as much for the totally sweet consoles (Neutronium with half an RCS? RCS with half a Neutronium? Yes and yes!) and ridiculous Fleet Cores (bonuses to two subsystems! +3.3% energy weapon damage for each subsystem over 75! Listen, Engineers, and hear the call of DPS) as for the reduction on the dilithium costs for the rest of the holdings.
And that part should also have a note: the reduction is for all fleet holdings. It may be a bit short of breaking even now, but when the next holding comes out? Those with built up mines will have a huge advantage.
SOOOO much GRINDING....please STOP with the insane grinding already or at least wait some more till ALL the fleets complete the T5 projects.
Nice thought, but will never happen. New fleets start, other fleets go inactive.
As to your point about adding another resource sink... you are not required to work on it right away... if you don't want to start the mine until your fleet hits T5 Starbase, you can certainly manage the holding that way.
Not in the general case. Some people may see bottlenecks because they don't like the amount of time spent resource gathering. Others could have a higher threshold and not feel like they're grinding.
Comments
The system IS designed to make them money - it's a business - that's their whole point for opperating. Dan Stahl gave a presentation at the PWE shareholders meeting that they would make approx $2800 per starbase - can't be more clearly laid out than that.
According to the numbers you have seen, the overall discount you obtain is a cost increase.
Thank you for revealing those numbers.
I hope Cryptic gives us their answer.
I was under the impression that the discount would also apply to ALL purchases at the starbase:
So Fleet ships would cost less dilithium
Fleet gear would cost less dilithium
Weapons would cost less dilithium
Provision assignments would cost less total reasources
Add all this up and you get a savings - the more you use the more you save.
...and, that is why I am asking Cryptic to 'publicly' advertise the holding's specifics. According to this particular game mechanic's advertising, dilithium mine, the new system's projects were designed to give us a discount. If we go by what players have witnessed, while playing it on Tribble, the dilithium mine increases (not discounts) the overall costs to building the fleet base.
Again, I hope Cryptic gives us more specifics, so that people will be able to make a more informed decision.
If what stirling191 is saying is true, Cryptic is only shifting the costs and resource requirements from one holding to another one. You only get the shift in resource requirements and costs by spending them on another holding.
We need a table of hard numbers and percentages to be posted on the company's site.
What people are also miss is the cool down time associated with the dilithium mine projects. Instead of completing a T5 fleet base within two years (just a guess), small fleets may be hitting the end in two and a half years (just a guess).
More projects = More Resource Requirements = More time needed to hit fleet base T5.
So, what are the hard facts?
What are the hard percentages and numbers?
Are small fleets really getting a discount?
Yes! While this event is active, a bonus applies.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
To provision ships does cost dilithium - as does the provisoning of gear and weapons.
And adv and elite gear starts at T3/T4 only elite weapons are at T5 - all of which cost dilithium
I just bought an elite deflector and that was like 35,000 dilithium i believe.
ok... it doesnt take an economics degree to see the FLAW in your logic.
Lets say I save 2K dilith on a weapon. Not really a big deal in the first place but I am only going to buy that weapon ONCE. So if it costs 18K instead of 20K is not really an issue. One more day of grinding.
To get the said "discount" I would probably have to spend 10X that amount. So I might spend 500K dilithum to save maybe 20K on stuff I would buy.
Its like using a "Rent to Own" store. You end up paying $2000 for that $500 TV
And I still maintain it's not about breaking even on dilithium (now *there's* a ridiculous supposition: that Cryptic would basically fund you the dilithium for free), but about the new gear that comes with it.
As was said already, this was all meant for 25+ member fleets to begin with.
And funny that, I sometimes get the same angry reactions when I tell ppl in zone not to start their own fleet, but better to join an existing, larger one. For example, our last Tier 5 project cost 1,800,000 dilithium, and 24,000 fleet marks. And you know what?! It was filled within the hour; because even at 18k a pop (assuming 100 members) that huge dilithium requirement is suddenly met easily.
It's not my fault you're in a smaller fleet. Don't take it out on me, please.
Why do you not want smaller fleets to exist?
More fleets = more diversity = more competition = more fun.
Even though 500 people can belong to a fleet, only one person can actually control and own a fleet. According to the infographic released in January 2013, the number of fleets that exists is roughly 16,000. I am sure the number has increased. Only one problem... Only 16,000 people out of 2 million players physically own fleets. Really? Other words, less than roughly 0.25% of the population owns a fleet. I do not call that a diversity in options.
Then we were told this Dilithium Mine holding was going to make a significant difference for smaller fleet (presumably 25 members and lower)........What delusional planet are ya'll living on?
Plenty of people have run the numbers and all have come up with the same thing, it saves you nothing fleet wise. Sure you'll save on individual items, but nothing fleetwise, not really. Small fleets suffer not only from the astronomical resource costs of the fleet system, but also with all the top end gear involved there is no incentive for people to join smaller fleets.
The larger fleets will sail through this without much of a problem and then the divide between smaller and larger fleets will just explode more than it already has. I'm not trying to be cruel to larger fleets, but there needs to be some incentive over the larger and uber fleets, and this could and should have been it. I congratulate the larger fleets for completing or near completing their bases and understand they've spend huge sums of resources to do so, but fleet bases should be social hubs, not mansions for the rich to show off how much better they think they are over the lower class (smaller fleets).
The discounts from this fleet holding should have a very significant reduction on fleet base resource requirements, like I said the large, mega, and uber fleets already have theirs, now it's time to level it off for the smaller guys. The big boys can get their discounts later on.
I think it's time Cryptic finally publicly admits the fleet system was NEVER designed around the magical "25 person" fleets with members playing a few hours a week they claimed it was and finally release some honest information, Apologize for being misleading when saying this would help smaller fleets, and correct it accordingly.
I'm still hopeful in the potential I see in this game, but to be perfectly honest my confidence in some of the recent decisions is slipping to say the least.
My question is, why do you expect anything else? Cryptic is a company... companies must make money to survive, profit to expand... I don't understand why people look at any type of addition as a bad thing... of course they want you to spend money... it would be silly if they didn't. The company WILL be profitable.. if that means they lay devs off, go to tier B facilties, etc etc in order to meet expenses... thats what happens. If it continues to lose money, the servers are shut down, and the game ends.
Cryptic/PWE is doing nothing different than any other gaming company out there, short of selling ad space on the side of ESD, or Billboard on Q'onos.
You can make the choice whether or not to spend, whether or not to grind. Please don't make this out to be that Cryptic is forcing you to do anything... If you don't want to grind... don't. Trust me on this, if they feel that the money earned on this particular venture drops... they'll lower the costs in hopes of reigniting support for it. Why do you think there are LTS Sales, or Lockbox Key sales?
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
No it's not flawed based on what Dan Stahl has said is there set fleet starbase size of 25.
It's a force multiplyer - maybe you save 4000 dilthium on that 35,000 item
How many are you going to buy? Maybe 10 items total for yourself and alts over time - or 40,000 dilithium saved on just that gear
40,000 times 25 people = 1 million dilithium saved just on those purchases.
And if you are not buying lots of gear and weapons and stuff - why the heck would you have a starbase? All starbases are is expensive stores - nothing more - not social hubs - not event locations - not even the super fleets have many people at the starbase ever. My KDF fleet has 400+ members and a week from full completion of T5 - the whole thing - maybe there is 2 people at the base at once - maybe.
So all a starbase is - a store - if you are not buying lots of stuff - you don't NEED it!
How about you just don't do the extra fleet holding then? You won't save anything, but you won't increase your costs either, right? Instant advantage over all those other stupid fleets who dump resources into a new holding.
Hm, That said, why are we doing the upgrade of the embassy again?
And really, we don't need the starbase at all either.
Think about all those resources you save by NOT doing any of that fleet stuff?
That is a 100% savings!!!! Best deal ever!
You are correct with holdings AS THEY EXIST TODAY. However, it has been stated that the discounts will apply to all future holdings as well. Dstahl has been quoted multiple times about additional holdings (beyond this particular holding).
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Best Answer yet!!
Hey news flash - if you avoid starbases you will save 100%!!!
Congratulations on completely ignoring everyone who is already struggling to meet the current resource burden.
I'll quote myself from the Tribble boards instead of retyping it...
What competition between fleets? I've yet to see anything that pits my fleet against a KDF fleet (short of PvP premade (which are ruled by a few PvP centric fleets/players (nothing against them... but my casual fleet is not up to that level of PvP, and they aren't wanting to get there for the most part). My hats off to the PvP'ers, min/maxers... I enjoy PvP myself... but recognize that my fleet is not a PvP centric one. So if it isn't PvP... there is no competition out there?
What Diversity? We have access to the same gear, same aesthetics... we even arrange the furniture...
What Fun? We're all too busy feeding the beast to stop and really have some fun.
Now, I do think that if you want to start a fleet, by all means do so... but you should be aware of the hill you are about to climb. It can be a daunting climb, especially when starting out.
To make matters worse, there are multiple factors leading to slowing of donations (iow - Fleet progression) including advanced fleets selling access to their unlocked stores (serves the immediate gratification need, why grind to T5 if I can pay 10-15 Mil for access to a fleet with T5 ships), new reputation systems, new faction... the later 3 competing for time/resoruces.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Its a semantics argument. I think we are trying to split hairs... on what "significant" means.
Will the dilithium mine save you something... yes... eventually... but it WILL save... might not exactly Pay for itself... unless you are starting from scratch (i.e. a new fleet), or possibly a small fleet still at T1. You still have a haul in front of you. If you are in thos position halt progress on everything and focus on the mine to get the maximum savings.
If you fund the entire project yourself... yeah you'll be waiting a long time to see any benefit, if you spread that cost out over 25 players... the cost/benefit ratio improves.
If you are already an advanced fleet, chances are you will never entirely recoup your investment in a fully tricked out dilithium mine, through savings. So that shouldn't be your goal in regards to the new holding. Rather, you should focus on the benefit of the consoles, and other perks.
Edit: I've also never seen a dev/pwe employee post that clearly stated the purpose was to significantly reduce cost of advancing fleet holdings in the "short term". I may have missed it, can you provide a link?
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Or it just shows that time as a resource is not enough to cover all your bases at once. You have to make compromises either with dilithium, doffs, marks, ec. You have to deal with a bottleneck, you just can choose which one, but ultimately it comes down to: there is a bottleneck and therein lies he nature of things.
The game is not designed to let you finish with something, but to keep us busy indefinitely.
The moment you are done you get bored and Cryptic loses money.
The tricky part for Cryptic is to keep us busy without getting bored.
How I would open the game up for more fleets, fleet bases, resources, and recruitment options:
Just a suggestion to Cryptic.
First, I would reduce the fleet membership cap from 500 to 250.
Second, as a direct result of reducing the fleet membership cap, I would also reduce the fleet base resource requirements to accommodate 20 - 250 members.
Third, I would restrict the number of fleets a player can own to two. One Fed/One KDF.
Fourth, I would move the dilithium mine projects into the fleet base, and just give everyone an overall discount.
New and old players are getting tired of grinding and slow game progression. While my suggestions may seem controversial to big fleet owners, the small fleet owners (also those thinking about owning a fleet) will benefit. Remember, I am just throwing these suggestions out there; thus, do not take them as if they are demands. I am sure other people can come up with better solutions.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
having three non-optional fleet projects costing over 500k dil with another 3-4 non-optional projects costing over 150k dil each is not a bottleneck it's a problem in the system. and that's just the Tier 1/Tier 2 upgrades.
Some of it definitely comes down to how much people are willing to work for certain parts, others seriously need to be addressed and recalculated.
And that part should also have a note: the reduction is for all fleet holdings. It may be a bit short of breaking even now, but when the next holding comes out? Those with built up mines will have a huge advantage.
This is an MMO. Grinding is the order of business. That, or paying to win/advance.
Nice Dev Blog. No mention of the miners outfit, is that not coming or is it not important enough to warrant a mention?
Nice thought, but will never happen. New fleets start, other fleets go inactive.
As to your point about adding another resource sink... you are not required to work on it right away... if you don't want to start the mine until your fleet hits T5 Starbase, you can certainly manage the holding that way.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....