Adidas and their products are irrelevant to the topic of my post. I just used it as a good example and a reference.
Just as CS products are irrelevant to the issue at hand; they are associating with someone that they say they condone and don't support. And my intention with Adidas was merely to provide an example how does a company act on their word. And to provoke a thought that if Adidas can terminate a contract with a profitable athletic than surely CS could, not should, terminate their affiliation with someone that is not providing them with any liquid assets.
It is my opinion, not intention to provoke someone. And I dislike mentioning this but it is Internet communication that is too easily twisted and pulled out of context.
So, as someone mentioned already, you can just ignore it if you don't like it. At least that's what I will do, I really don't care about free stuff if that means listening to someone that is, in a way, hurting someone and making them less valuable.
Adidas and their products are irrelevant to the topic of my post. I just used it as a good example and a reference.
Just as CS products are irrelevant to the issue at hand; they are associating with someone that they say they condone and don't support. And my intention with Adidas was merely to provide an example how does a company act on their word. And to provoke a thought that if Adidas can terminate a contract with a profitable athletic than surely CS could, not should, terminate their affiliation with someone that is not providing them with any liquid assets.
It is my opinion, not intention to provoke someone. And I dislike mentioning this but it is Internet communication that is too easily twisted and pulled out of context.
So, as someone mentioned already, you can just ignore it if you don't like it. At least that's what I will do, I really don't care about free stuff if that means listening to someone that is, in a way, hurting someone and making them less valuable.
Don't worry, I'm no trying to twist your words. I'm not sure how Cryptic does these things however. I dont know if they got a contract or anything.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Pwe its a Chinese company, we all know that china isn't one of the most liberal country on the planet don't we? Just google what the chinese governamet (pls note that i wrote the government and not the ppl) think of homosexual ppl and the way they are treated over there... and make your own mind about that...
What its left to do?
Well you shouldn't feel ashamed if you are going to take part to the event anyway... just remember this... one day you will find yourself (or someone close to you) trappend in some minority group (too tall or too short or too pale or too much out of conformity)....
What will I do?
I will not take part at the event and I'll post on my blog an invite to do the same to my friends and fleet mates!
Why?
I want to make a minority out of the ppl complaining about other minority groups!
Just FYI I'm straight and I've got a family I may not be the most clever person on the planet but I know this much: Live peacefully and leave the other to do the same and you'll have a smooth ride to wherever you are going to! Its just Intellectual honesty...
BTW just becouse THIS event will be friendly for all it doesn't justify a thing...
If hitler would have had organized a free beer day open and friendly to all do you really think Churchill and patton would have attended?
English its not my language so before complaining try to write a post in Italian!
and while we are on the subject ... this post its not a flame or an attempt at trolling...
QFT! I'm actually rather appalled that they would still associate and go ahead with this promotion and live stream after being informed of his past actions. It makes me feel rather uncomfortable playing their games and giving them my money knowing that they don't mind this sort of behaviour, so long as he doesn't do it during their two hour video.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
this guy is not an activist. he's not promoting an agenda. he's playing a freakin star trek game. for a few hours. just because he let out a slur here and there doesn't mean he's on some anti-TRIBBLE, hate speech campaign to destroy all that you hold dear.
if there's anyone here showing unacceptable behavior, it's everyone in this thread calling foul. less qq pls.
Oh so the prerequisite now is that you have to be an activist in order for hate speech to apply and letting loose a slur "here and there" is totally acceptable since it's "just on a Star Trek game"?
You don't seem to understand that this goes beyond "just a star trek video game" and moves into the realm of human rights. It doesn't matter who he is, he's making slurs against an entire community, many of whom actually do happen to play this game. We have entire fleets made up from the LGBT community. Should these players be subjected to this drek just because it's "just a video game"? It's clear that this "nerd with a webcam" isn't IDIC friendly in the least and has no business representing an official STO event in any capacity.
He seems to be behaving so far, so no need for rage so far.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
0
dezstravusMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
Hey All,
Thanks for the valuable questions. In investigating the issue, we did look at the comments that players have posted here. Fortunately we discovered that those behaviors occurred in the past and concluded that the stream has been clean of any such statements for the past few months.
In this particular situation the encouragement that I offer is to watch today's stream with an open mind and open heart. My hope is that you will see him for who he is today; perhaps he can even brighten your day through his present sense of humor, which has evolved through life experience like it has for all of us.
This will be his first time playing STO, so I can only ask that we welcome him with open arms as we would with any other new player. We are still committed to listening to feedback during and after the stream, I only request that the feedback is focused on current, present-day experience.
Thanks for the valuable questions. In investigating the issue, we did look at the comments that players have posted here. Fortunately we discovered that those behaviors occurred in the past and concluded that the stream has been clean of any such statements for the past few months.
In this particular situation the encouragement that I offer is to watch today's stream with an open mind and open heart. My hope is that you will see him for who he is today; perhaps he can even brighten your day through his present sense of humor, which has evolved through life experience like it has for all of us.
This will be his first time playing STO, so I can only ask that we welcome him with open arms as we would with any other new player. We are still committed to listening to feedback during and after the stream, I only request that the feedback is focused on current, present-day experience.
I see.
If he has changed his tune and come around to being a more open minded and less hateful individual, then I will not protest. I still won't be participating in the livestream, however I would encourage him to continue forward in the spirit of IDIC.
In the meantime, I would strongly suggest to you (Cryptic) that you do a more thorough screening for events like this in the future. Events are fun. They get your community involved and promote your products at the same time. They aren't so fun when a portion of your community is subjected to slurs against them. By all means keep going with the twitch livestreaming thingy. Just...be more careful from now on.
While I normally promote Cryptic events and giveaways, I'm afraid I have to do the exact opposite here.
I won't go into my own history here, but this sort of thing matters to me.
So ... yeah. On and off air 'don't do this/go to this promotion'.
Note: This is all my call, the management at SSR wasn't consulted at all.
Just, no.
"He hasn't been actively bigoted recently" is not good enough.
"The halfling way of battle is simple: You jump on their face and keep stabbing until the screaming stops."
Dezstravus, you are literally saying you know he has a history of anti-TRIBBLE hate speech and you don't care.
You are taking someone you know has a history of hate speech, and giving him prizes and promoting him on the front page.
You have failed your TRIBBLE players, today. You are condoning his past behavior. You have said that advertising is more important than the TRIBBLE community.
For shame.
I hope you don't consider Chris Brown or the WBC as future sponsors. People with a history of hate speech have no place in Star Trek Online.
The last time I heard that F-word in real life, it was as a baseball bat was being swung at my head, because I'm TRIBBLE. Now you're taking someone who uses it the same way and making him a celebrity in the STO community.
Dezstravus, you are literally saying you know he has a history of anti-TRIBBLE hate speech and you don't care.
You are taking someone you know has a history of hate speech, and giving him prizes and promoting him on the front page.
You have failed your TRIBBLE players, today. You are condoning his past behavior. You have said that advertising is more important than the TRIBBLE community.
For shame.
I hope you don't consider Chris Brown or the WBC as future sponsors. People with a history of hate speech have no place in Star Trek Online.
The last time I heard that F-word in real life, it was as a baseball bat was being swung at my head, because I'm TRIBBLE. Now you're taking someone who uses it the same way and making him a celebrity in the STO community.
I agree.
Cryptic/PWE just crossed a line.
Where's the next promotion, Stormfront?
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Dezstravus, you are literally saying you know he has a history of anti-TRIBBLE hate speech and you don't care.
You are taking someone you know has a history of hate speech, and giving him prizes and promoting him on the front page.
You have failed your TRIBBLE players, today. You are condoning his past behavior. You have said that advertising is more important than the TRIBBLE community.
For shame.
I hope you don't consider Chris Brown or the WBC as future sponsors. People with a history of hate speech have no place in Star Trek Online.
The last time I heard that F-word in real life, it was as a baseball bat was being swung at my head, because I'm TRIBBLE. Now you're taking someone who uses it the same way and making him a celebrity in the STO community.
Ahh I love people that speak for entire communities without consulting the entire community.
Here is my whole thought on this situation as a man that's obviously come out of the closet a long time ago :P
They did their research and for the past few months he's been clean. Maybe he's had a change of heart and realized what he was spouting was wrong? Doesn't the IDIC also allow for someone to change? You cannot say "Lets be accepting in this world change your views on homosexuality" then when someone that had a HISTORY but not recent history of being anti-TRIBBLE/hateful/whatever then scream "BURN HIM ALIVE!" (Not really but you get my point).
People do stupid things, they also change and become a better person. Maybe this guy has who can really say but doesn't it mean he also should be given a chance TO change?
And there is my 20 cents of my PERSONAL VIEW NOT THAT OF PWE/CRYPTIC STUDIOS
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Ahh I love people that speak for entire communities without consulting the entire community.
Here is my whole thought on this situation as a man that's obviously come out of the closet a long time ago :P
They did their research and for the past few months he's been clean. Maybe he's had a change of heart and realized what he was spouting was wrong? Doesn't the IDIC also allow for someone to change? You cannot say "Lets be accepting in this world change your views on homosexuality" then when someone that had a HISTORY but not recent history of being anti-TRIBBLE/hateful/whatever then scream "BURN HIM ALIVE!" (Not really but you get my point).
People do stupid things, they also change and become a better person. Maybe this guy has who can really say but doesn't it mean he also should be given a chance TO change?
And there is my 20 cents of my PERSONAL VIEW NOT THAT OF PWE/CRYPTIC STUDIOS
Actually, at no point was I trying to speak for the entire community. Please don't put words in my mouth.
As you point out in your post, my post is my opinions just like your post is your opinions.
Do I believe he's changed? No. I don't think he's gone through some magical change of heart. I think at best someone above him on Twitch gave him a scolding and he was told to behave.
The thing is there's plenty of streamers they could have used for this event. Some even in this thread. Streamers without a history of hatred against gays. But instead they wanted to give this guy prizes and promote him.
Perhaps you've never been persecuted, perhaps you've never been assaulted for being who you are, perhaps you've never experienced the hate firsthand; but as someone who has it's a sensitive topic.
Especially when you see people who have acted that way in the past promoted as someone important in the STO community. Given prizes and advertised as partnering with Cryptic.
Maybe he's had a change of heart and realized what he was spouting was wrong? Doesn't the IDIC also allow for someone to change?
To further expand on this; with all the people that Khan killed, if he claimed he had a change of heart and played nice for a couple months do you think he would be a good spokesperson for the Federation?
Gul Dukat didn't kill any Bajorans for a while after the occupation, does that make him a good person to promote Bajor?
To further expand on this; with all the people that Khan killed, if he claimed he had a change of heart and played nice for a couple months do you think he would be a good spokesperson for the Federation?
Gul Dukat didn't kill any Bajorans for a while after the occupation, does that make him a good person to promote Bajor?
Dukat did try to promote Bajor...or at least his lust for Bajoran women.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
You don't seem to understand that this goes beyond "just a star trek video game" and moves into the realm of human rights. It doesn't matter who he is, he's making slurs against an entire community, many of whom actually do happen to play this game. We have entire fleets made up from the LGBT community. Should these players be subjected to this drek just because it's "just a video game"? It's clear that this "nerd with a webcam" isn't IDIC friendly in the least and has no business representing an official STO event in any capacity.
That's the issue here.
I guess it would be silly to point out that making a public spectacle of being LGBT in a game that does not really address gender or sexuality is just voluntarily setting oneself apart and inviting reproach on a basis that is in no way relevant to the game. For the record, I don't care who is what, never did. But you must understand on some level how doing things like that hurts the movement it represents.
Waving your lifestyle choice in public like a flag makes you just as bad as those who would deride you for your choice.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I guess it would be silly to point out that making a public spectacle of being LGBT in a game that does not really address gender or sexuality is just voluntarily setting oneself apart and inviting reproach on a basis that is in no way relevant to the game. For the record, I don't care who is what, never did. But you must understand on some level how doing things like that hurts the movement it represents.
Waving your lifestyle choice in public like a flag makes you just as bad as those who would deride you for your choice.
Actually I don't think that's true. People form groups and sub-communities in games based on who they are. A LGBT fleet is no different from a roleplaying fleet or a hardcore STF fleet.
More certainly, being proud of who you are is not the same as attacking someone for who they are.
In most communities, they don't allow attacking people for who they are. In this one, if you've done that in the past, maybe you get prizes.
Actually I don't think that's true. People form groups and sub-communities in games based on who they are. A LGBT fleet is no different from a roleplaying fleet or a hardcore STF fleet.
More certainly, being proud of who you are is not the same as attacking someone for who they are.
In most communities, they don't allow attacking people for who they are. In this one, if you've done that in the past, maybe you get prizes.
I'm just saying we have plenty of people who fit that category and many others in my fleet and we discuss all topics freely. It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal. A big deal to you does not constitute one for me. To instigate, then play the victim, is just silly.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
so i won, but i didnt see anyone say i had to hit the follow button, so i didnt win. 4 million rom flying through the chat channel, im lucky i could read anything in there. this officially sucks massively
I'm just saying we have plenty of people who fit that category and many others in my fleet and we discuss all topics freely. It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal. A big deal to you does not constitute one for me. To instigate, then play the victim, is just silly.
Instigate? Are you suggesting TRIBBLE people identifying themselves as such is instigating? Ridiculous. Telling people they can't talk about being TRIBBLE is ridiculous.
And for the record, I never said anything to anyone about being TRIBBLE until I saw them using this person with his known history of hate speech to promote the game.
Instigate? Are you suggesting TRIBBLE people identifying themselves as such is instigating? Ridiculous. Telling people they can't talk about being TRIBBLE is ridiculous.
And for the record, I never said anything to anyone about being TRIBBLE until I saw them using this person with his known history of hate speech to promote the game.
yes, to publicly display your personal choice that has nothing to do with the game is instigating those who dislike it. How loud would you howl if someone start The Hetero Christian TRIBBLE Hating Fleet? It's the same standard of self-expression. You wouldn't like that one bit would you?
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I guess it would be silly to point out that making a public spectacle of being LGBT in a game that does not really address gender or sexuality is just voluntarily setting oneself apart and inviting reproach on a basis that is in no way relevant to the game. For the record, I don't care who is what, never did. But you must understand on some level how doing things like that hurts the movement it represents.
Waving your lifestyle choice in public like a flag makes you just as bad as those who would deride you for your choice.
I've been told from members of that community that the reason that they form LGBT fleets isn't so much about waving who they are in public, but rather to be around people who understand them. When they join up with one of those fleets, they know that all of the members there are apart of their community and that there won't be any misunderstandings based off of that.
I also have to disagree that being LGBT is a lifestyle choice any more than being straight is. I don't think they woke up one morning and decided "I think I'm going to be TRIBBLE from now on." That's who and what they are.
Comments
Well by his name, he may be related to a speaking towel.
Just as CS products are irrelevant to the issue at hand; they are associating with someone that they say they condone and don't support. And my intention with Adidas was merely to provide an example how does a company act on their word. And to provoke a thought that if Adidas can terminate a contract with a profitable athletic than surely CS could, not should, terminate their affiliation with someone that is not providing them with any liquid assets.
It is my opinion, not intention to provoke someone. And I dislike mentioning this but it is Internet communication that is too easily twisted and pulled out of context.
So, as someone mentioned already, you can just ignore it if you don't like it. At least that's what I will do, I really don't care about free stuff if that means listening to someone that is, in a way, hurting someone and making them less valuable.
Don't worry, I'm no trying to twist your words. I'm not sure how Cryptic does these things however. I dont know if they got a contract or anything.
QFT! I'm actually rather appalled that they would still associate and go ahead with this promotion and live stream after being informed of his past actions. It makes me feel rather uncomfortable playing their games and giving them my money knowing that they don't mind this sort of behaviour, so long as he doesn't do it during their two hour video.
calm down, people. lol.
Yeah, how dare people get upset when unacceptable behavior is displayed.
:rolleyes:
Mine Trap Supporter
if there's anyone here showing unacceptable behavior, it's everyone in this thread calling foul. less qq pls.
Good to know.
:rolleyes:
Mine Trap Supporter
in other words...
That's the issue here.
Mine Trap Supporter
Thanks for the valuable questions. In investigating the issue, we did look at the comments that players have posted here. Fortunately we discovered that those behaviors occurred in the past and concluded that the stream has been clean of any such statements for the past few months.
In this particular situation the encouragement that I offer is to watch today's stream with an open mind and open heart. My hope is that you will see him for who he is today; perhaps he can even brighten your day through his present sense of humor, which has evolved through life experience like it has for all of us.
This will be his first time playing STO, so I can only ask that we welcome him with open arms as we would with any other new player. We are still committed to listening to feedback during and after the stream, I only request that the feedback is focused on current, present-day experience.
I see.
If he has changed his tune and come around to being a more open minded and less hateful individual, then I will not protest. I still won't be participating in the livestream, however I would encourage him to continue forward in the spirit of IDIC.
In the meantime, I would strongly suggest to you (Cryptic) that you do a more thorough screening for events like this in the future. Events are fun. They get your community involved and promote your products at the same time. They aren't so fun when a portion of your community is subjected to slurs against them. By all means keep going with the twitch livestreaming thingy. Just...be more careful from now on.
Mine Trap Supporter
I won't go into my own history here, but this sort of thing matters to me.
So ... yeah. On and off air 'don't do this/go to this promotion'.
Note: This is all my call, the management at SSR wasn't consulted at all.
Just, no.
"He hasn't been actively bigoted recently" is not good enough.
You are taking someone you know has a history of hate speech, and giving him prizes and promoting him on the front page.
You have failed your TRIBBLE players, today. You are condoning his past behavior. You have said that advertising is more important than the TRIBBLE community.
For shame.
I hope you don't consider Chris Brown or the WBC as future sponsors. People with a history of hate speech have no place in Star Trek Online.
The last time I heard that F-word in real life, it was as a baseball bat was being swung at my head, because I'm TRIBBLE. Now you're taking someone who uses it the same way and making him a celebrity in the STO community.
I agree.
Cryptic/PWE just crossed a line.
Where's the next promotion, Stormfront?
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Here is my whole thought on this situation as a man that's obviously come out of the closet a long time ago :P
They did their research and for the past few months he's been clean. Maybe he's had a change of heart and realized what he was spouting was wrong? Doesn't the IDIC also allow for someone to change? You cannot say "Lets be accepting in this world change your views on homosexuality" then when someone that had a HISTORY but not recent history of being anti-TRIBBLE/hateful/whatever then scream "BURN HIM ALIVE!" (Not really but you get my point).
People do stupid things, they also change and become a better person. Maybe this guy has who can really say but doesn't it mean he also should be given a chance TO change?
And there is my 20 cents of my PERSONAL VIEW NOT THAT OF PWE/CRYPTIC STUDIOS
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
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Actually, at no point was I trying to speak for the entire community. Please don't put words in my mouth.
As you point out in your post, my post is my opinions just like your post is your opinions.
Do I believe he's changed? No. I don't think he's gone through some magical change of heart. I think at best someone above him on Twitch gave him a scolding and he was told to behave.
The thing is there's plenty of streamers they could have used for this event. Some even in this thread. Streamers without a history of hatred against gays. But instead they wanted to give this guy prizes and promote him.
Perhaps you've never been persecuted, perhaps you've never been assaulted for being who you are, perhaps you've never experienced the hate firsthand; but as someone who has it's a sensitive topic.
Especially when you see people who have acted that way in the past promoted as someone important in the STO community. Given prizes and advertised as partnering with Cryptic.
To further expand on this; with all the people that Khan killed, if he claimed he had a change of heart and played nice for a couple months do you think he would be a good spokesperson for the Federation?
Gul Dukat didn't kill any Bajorans for a while after the occupation, does that make him a good person to promote Bajor?
Dukat did try to promote Bajor...or at least his lust for Bajoran women.
I guess it would be silly to point out that making a public spectacle of being LGBT in a game that does not really address gender or sexuality is just voluntarily setting oneself apart and inviting reproach on a basis that is in no way relevant to the game. For the record, I don't care who is what, never did. But you must understand on some level how doing things like that hurts the movement it represents.
Waving your lifestyle choice in public like a flag makes you just as bad as those who would deride you for your choice.
Actually I don't think that's true. People form groups and sub-communities in games based on who they are. A LGBT fleet is no different from a roleplaying fleet or a hardcore STF fleet.
More certainly, being proud of who you are is not the same as attacking someone for who they are.
In most communities, they don't allow attacking people for who they are. In this one, if you've done that in the past, maybe you get prizes.
I'm just saying we have plenty of people who fit that category and many others in my fleet and we discuss all topics freely. It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal. A big deal to you does not constitute one for me. To instigate, then play the victim, is just silly.
Instigate? Are you suggesting TRIBBLE people identifying themselves as such is instigating? Ridiculous. Telling people they can't talk about being TRIBBLE is ridiculous.
And for the record, I never said anything to anyone about being TRIBBLE until I saw them using this person with his known history of hate speech to promote the game.
yes, to publicly display your personal choice that has nothing to do with the game is instigating those who dislike it. How loud would you howl if someone start The Hetero Christian TRIBBLE Hating Fleet? It's the same standard of self-expression. You wouldn't like that one bit would you?
I've been told from members of that community that the reason that they form LGBT fleets isn't so much about waving who they are in public, but rather to be around people who understand them. When they join up with one of those fleets, they know that all of the members there are apart of their community and that there won't be any misunderstandings based off of that.
I also have to disagree that being LGBT is a lifestyle choice any more than being straight is. I don't think they woke up one morning and decided "I think I'm going to be TRIBBLE from now on." That's who and what they are.
Mine Trap Supporter