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why people dont do ground pvp
borgresearcher
Member Posts: 451 Arc User
kits ! kits kits kits ! the devs should really try to play as a scientist against an engineer, our skills take like an eternity to activate, the medic kit is the worse, id you keep healing yourself, youe right hand wont be on the trigger, you just wont do damage, skills allready take too long to be activated on the tray, i just have to press like 30 times to activate them, and then, well my toon just keeps touching his little arm-screen for ages -.-
scientist kits are very stupid, the skill mix makes no sense, electro gravitic field should be with stasis field together, biofilter sweep and hyposprays are useless unless you use a gorn for the troll, stasis field says 5 seconds hold but it is like half of a second, only skills i find any usefull are tachyon harmonics with sonic pulse combo, exotermic field and hyperonic radiation plus a stun pistol combo
you just cant beat a good tac ( tacs are not that hard ) or a good eng with enemy neutralization, at least i can't, i tryed everything, and the power cells plus combat subroutine are not enough, dampening field sucks since we can not hold the target, and nanoprobe is quite weak in 1vs1, why ? our kits are all messed up ! we need desperately to be able to customize our kits, i can do a skill set in my boffs much better than those non sense kits i can use
i have all the ground sets mk xii, including jem hadar, 2 fleet complete sets and ev suit, respec'd 3 times and still dont get the pew, help me here ... or at least, try to fight kirby if you dont like your screen or your keyboard, ive tryed tons of bindings, i have a gaming mouse and the kit skills are binded to mouse buttons, but still can't find the breach !!!
anyway
with customizable kits people would be much more interested in ground pvp, i heard the devs were allready looking into it, and they might find it a problem to create a new kit system, but thats not needed, just keep the kits, each one with one permanent level 4 or something, just to not let different kits to have the same exact skills, and the other 3 of our choice, something like that is not that hard to do ... leaving the romulan kits the same, with 5 skills ... feedback
by the way ... TRIBBLE you transphasic bomb plus orbital strike ;(
scientist kits are very stupid, the skill mix makes no sense, electro gravitic field should be with stasis field together, biofilter sweep and hyposprays are useless unless you use a gorn for the troll, stasis field says 5 seconds hold but it is like half of a second, only skills i find any usefull are tachyon harmonics with sonic pulse combo, exotermic field and hyperonic radiation plus a stun pistol combo
you just cant beat a good tac ( tacs are not that hard ) or a good eng with enemy neutralization, at least i can't, i tryed everything, and the power cells plus combat subroutine are not enough, dampening field sucks since we can not hold the target, and nanoprobe is quite weak in 1vs1, why ? our kits are all messed up ! we need desperately to be able to customize our kits, i can do a skill set in my boffs much better than those non sense kits i can use
i have all the ground sets mk xii, including jem hadar, 2 fleet complete sets and ev suit, respec'd 3 times and still dont get the pew, help me here ... or at least, try to fight kirby if you dont like your screen or your keyboard, ive tryed tons of bindings, i have a gaming mouse and the kit skills are binded to mouse buttons, but still can't find the breach !!!
anyway
with customizable kits people would be much more interested in ground pvp, i heard the devs were allready looking into it, and they might find it a problem to create a new kit system, but thats not needed, just keep the kits, each one with one permanent level 4 or something, just to not let different kits to have the same exact skills, and the other 3 of our choice, something like that is not that hard to do ... leaving the romulan kits the same, with 5 skills ... feedback
by the way ... TRIBBLE you transphasic bomb plus orbital strike ;(
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1) The only reason I have 66k skill points in Ground skills is because I'm required to have 66k skill points in Ground skills. I have the minimum allowed.
2) I have 8 Aliens and a Reman. Each of the Aliens has a single Ground trait, since they could only select 8 of 9 as Space. The Reman has a single Ground trait (the Species trait).
3) I don't do Ground PvE (outside of leveling). As such, my Ground gear is TRIBBLE because all you need is TRIBBLE gear to do the Ground PvE as you're leveling.
So...minimum Ground skills allowed, minimum Ground traits allowed, and TRIBBLE Ground gear...that's why I don't do Ground PvP.
Yep, Geko has been talking about a kit revamp. Won't make any difference to me, though...because again, I've got the min allowed Ground skills, the min allowed Ground traits, and TRIBBLE Ground gear.
So okay, I don't want to "weaken" a toon by doing Ground...why not just take one of the Universal Slots that is sitting there as a Foundry toon doing nothing and roll a Ground guy?
The reason I didn't buy STO after the beta was because of Ground. Around a year later, when I got an email asking me to check out where STO was...I couldn't remember why I wasn't playing STO. I had been following the development from back when Perpetual had the license. I downloaded and installed the game for the free trial thing, created the toon, jumped once, and uninstalled the game. I remembered why I wasn't playing STO.
Outside of training BOFFs or switching ships, I'm not going to Ground. I'd rather pop a freighter or look for somebody that popped a freighter than go to Ground. Luckily enough, there are obviously enough people that feel the same because there are so many getting popped above Sol, Qo'noS, and even New Romulus.
Don't get me wrong, the artists, environmental guys, etc, etc, etc...have done an awesome job with the look of Ground. It came a long way with LoR...but it is still Ground. It's still the same goofy animations, the same clipping on costumes, etc, etc, etc...
For the folks not bothered by all those things, though, I do hope Geko gets somewhere with the kit revamp and it improves things for those folks that enjoy or want to enjoy Ground...
if you get deeper into it you will just find so broken but so broken omfg, trying to put skills and they dont activate, you get shots and the skill animation stops and i dont even know if the skill activated or not, the toon just keeps touching his arm instead of fighting, well, at the last my toon looks like a monkey throwing useless skills that dont activate
Everyone of us in every class as experienced to some degree the "activation delay" and it's not something specific to the Science class.
On the other subjet, I believe that most people don't do Ground PvP because it's a very fast paced game, the main reason of this is the low amount of HP compared to Space. Kit Powers are not an excuse, Movement it's not an excuse, it's just a fast game.
www.divisionhispana.com
im not saying engs are impossible to kill, well you can tank them until they chain fuse armor and orbital strike ...
edit--forgot about this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7hSkXPK9Qw
Also damage is really unpredictable. Its either too low so grenades and rifles do nothing (lol grenades do nothing), or else they deal ~700 damage for some unexplained reason and instagib you
Just touching the tip of it really, but I try to restrain my negativity. Its frustrating alright
Since most people won't make a seperate character for ground pvp, it becomes the same usual faces of vet full ground spec pvpers always able to dominate the hapless pugs with only minimal or average ground specs.
Easy fix for this is to allow all characters to have 300k space and 100k ground points and being able to select 8 traits each for both space and ground. Lots of people will at least give ground a try if they don't need to grind a new character for it.
Yeah, the Nockback lock can be very frustrating, but this is the current issue and it's not something that has been here for ever. Hopefully it will get fixed.
For non Ground lovers there's always something that prevents them from playing Ground PvP. Right now is the Knockback issue, a few months ago was the Cryo Launcher, before that was the Double Cloak and so on. These issues aggravate the 'main problem' with Ground PvP: the low HP.
www.divisionhispana.com
Over 14 years ago, HLDM had better movement/animations/etc. It's not about it being a fast game...it's about it being bad.
Geko once mentioned the games on his shelf and how they helped with how he envisioned STO. Two of those games mentioned were Starfleet Command and Elite Force. Yeah, Ground's nowhere near what Elite Force was...it's just that bad.
You can't compare a FPS to a 3rd Person MMO. Half Life was great but it's a complete different genre
www.divisionhispana.com
To me, ground anything is just a hassle. Something the game now forces upon you at various points. It's no longer really possible to completely avoid ground combat, not if you're interested in doing the storyline missions and whatnot.
If you want to run with us in a few teams feel free to hop on our mumble server and we can help ya out.
@wdocduck
Yet, if a competent player plays medic they are almost invulnerable those days... 1 good sci can sort-of neutralize 2 tac's dmg... if there wouldn't be stuns to take em down, we'd all just play sci's on ground... they really are that good.
Thats your real problem btw, ground in this game is like a shooter and the golden rule when playing any shooter is to find a setup that allows you to move while doing your abilities and gunfire same time... if you have a whole hand busy just to do abilities you'll be at major diadvantage.. that may work in space in some ship types were you just fly circles nonstop but not on ground
Mmmmmkay.. yet i remember kirk went boxing with his opponents quiete often
A lot of ground players believe swords to be broken because of the chain-stun that can be easily achieved with them.. pressing 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2 with em nonstop is totally not what they were designed for, theres combos which are kinda pointless atm.. and some year ago swords did rarely do a knockdown at all except for when a target was exposed.
I find grenade damage rather predictable, their damage depends on buffs.. the issues with grenades really is that buffs are not correctly consumed when firing em and its been mentioned in the ground issues posting since a long time.
What you are experiencing is lag. It's an issue for everyone. I hafta keep hitting hypo and pounce to make sure they activate. But as for not taking out an engy or tac? Learn to use all your abilities. Infestation and Tried Scan expose a target. Infestation amplifies damage. Tricorder scan reduces damage resist and stealth. Throw a dampening field on a bomb or an engy in an orbital animation. It reduces damage by 66%. Throw it on a tac, same thing. Power cells boost your damage to your eneru weapons. DOFFS also enhance HP and cool downs amongst other things. What I really see here is someone new and frustrated. We've all been there. It takes time and practice. Find a good fleet with voice chat to help you. Some science are quite deadly. I personally take a more passive stance lately and try to hang back and spread heals. I'm not perfect, but I feel I do alright. A science role as a medic is mostly support anyway. Debuff and heal.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
That it is a fast game alone would not keep me away from ground (although I do like longer battles that are more support heavy) . The thing is many games offer ground combat but good space battles are much harder to find. Like global agenda had some amazing ground battles, it was an mmo/shooter mix. Unfortunately the game doesn't have many players left which kind of sucks for a pvp game.
Also STO space is one of the few games these days were actual healing exists. Most games these days think if two people actually attack the same target they deserve a kill and healers should have trouble outhealing the dmg of one person.
I would do ground pvp from time to time just for fun but that would require a new toon. One with high reputation for passives and probably ground sets. I am not going to grind for a new toon just to have a little fun once in a while. Now I will stick to sapce because I actually like space battles very much.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
" what i see here is someone new and frustrated " with lag as it seems hahaha
you got me wrong brother, its not about engs, i just spotted it because their fighting stile brings the broken stuff into the topm i can pull a few wins from him but i cant kill him that easelym only if combat triage procs a few more times than normal or if the omega immobilizes in the right moment, only thing i can do is debuff and tanking him culminating into a catch and run match ... stun pistols look nice against engs btw but he will just throw weapons malfunction with me having the power cell and combat subroutine in cooldown ... you are just there, waiting for him to plant the bomb... its like " bomb has been planted ! " >.<
in space pvp you can simply fly the ship and use the tray with the mouse and some fancy bindings, letting you to be more concentrated in the skills and cooldowns, keeping an eye in the enemies buffs and debuffs, ground pvp is far more complicated, or you are concentrated in the combat, or you are concentrated on the tray ...
On top of that characters in STO wear ridiculous armors and heavy weaponry like gatling guns. While space combat has at least some resemblance of Star Trek, ground combat on the other side seems to be a bad import from Star Wars and Mass Effect, and the latter still did it better due to its cover-based combat mechanics and less awkward animations. When I talk of PvP I only mean its space combat part. I will never touch ground PvP.
About the kits: yes the most of the kits are useless, and there is too much of the graphical issues both in space and ground that may cause also lag and more time on using kit skills. There some of the kits and their skills that are really not useful for anything, like Combat Supply, you will be full of Large Hypos and etc, so you will not deal with taking out some of them from a box when you are under attack...
I suppose Cryptic will be dealing with it when they will try to update the PvP, hopefully not like the LoR with "a second klingon faction"...
Ahem ... allow me to troll for a bit ... but not really .
On ground , we have a segregation of classes , actually working as it was intended in the original design of this game .
On ground , we have little to no monetization .
On ground , we have little to no power creep .
On ground we have no P2W / P4P .
And you ask why ppl don't play ground PVP ?
(insert a picture of a sad clown here)
But hold on ye faithful ... , for Gecko may deliver the mish-mash of powers that you seek (with his kit revamp) -- which could have been done so much faster with the introduction of a few new kits ... -- but this is Cryptic ... so of course they will spend a ton of time redesigning stuff instead of a much less time in mixing the existing powers up in new kits .
Worst case scenario : all powers will be available to all classes in a "fill it yourself" type of kit , with the Tac's getting their hands on Sci healing powers and becoming as dominant in ground as they are in space .
Plus you will have things to spend money on to be 10% OP .
And this will close the sad chapter of balanced game play that we've had to deal with in the beginning , and the mish-mash of cheese that makes players want to hurl will come to the ground as well .
But as I've said , this is the worst case scenario .
Go Cryptic . :rolleyes:
Im sure thats why people play all games player vs player.For example call of duty player first buys pay to win items to play on ground /facepalm.
Now back in the real world where everyone already said that "ground PvP sucks " ....I know its easier to complain about that and say "people need p2w items to play and call people cheaters" than see that the ground PvP sucks.
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
R.I.P
I would try ground PvP, if it weren't for this. In my case, it's more of my Internet connection than my rig. A 300-500ms ping can be overcome in space, but not on ground, where hair-trigger reflexes are much more important. PvE is bad enough as it is, but PvP would probably result in something like me being already dead the moment I see the enemy.
1) Too much people griefing, trashtalking and camping players who are new to ground pvp
2) some Fleets who play as premades performing point 1 most of the time, or are known for using exploits
3) With all the Reputationsystems there is a great gap between new Level 50 players and people with fully developed Reputationsystems and HighEnd-Gear.
4) many people do not know how to use hypos...:D
5) The queue got ****ed up. Takes half an eternity to start a match. There is hardly a match without a premade anymore.
Besides that, i don't see any greater Unbalancing in Ground PvP. You can see a lot of players using different kits, from every profession, who are really good at it.
What we really need are new maps and missions.
id like to see more planet surface runs, like ker'rat but in ground, that would be cool xD or not ...
huh ... im not saying it is the worse thing in the world, i mean, i like it and im pretty interested in it, thing is that it doesnt burn the same as space ... it lacks on flame :cool:
we need more p2w stuff to ground, i think ive spent 4 or 5x more on style than on gears ...
Ground pvp is not very popular because its a star trek game. The reason most of us started playing wasn't to be a redshirt, but rather to fly our favorite ships from the shows. Unfortunately the D is a piece of sh**, but that's another post
Bottom line, most people play a star trek game for star trek stuff, which is the ships. If Iwant to play a shooter, ill play one that is less clunky.
Spec:
I have zero incentive to make a "ground only" character, i.e. one that is heavily specc'd into ground at the expense of space.
So no character of mine will ever get more than 66k in skills, an will rarely have more than 1 ground trait, if any.
Gameplay:
The (actual) movement feels (to me) clunky, it lacks fluidity.
The kits are all over the place in their design, and there is no real "making a build" aspect, which is probably one of my favorite things about space.
Balance seems really all over the place.
If they ever update STO's ground game to be a bit more similar to what they are doing (gameplay wise) in Neverwinter*, then I'd probably give it a try.
I think that would be a massive revamp, and it's highly unlikely we will ever see that.