Raise your thieving little progeny better if they are knowingly stealing from you, the Parent, and you wish it to stop.
Be a fracking parent so the next generation does not become one comprised of idiots whom think only of themselves.
Again, it's the parents' responsibility. Trying to outsource parenting to businesses is hilariously ridiculous.
If a kid charges $500 worth of Zen onto a card, then the parent can probably call Billing and have that refunded. However, as a business, Cryptic doesn't want to put a huge barrier in front of legitimate customers just because one out of every 10,000 might be a kid with his parent's credit card and not a clue in the world. That would be bad business, and every mild inconvenience is a lot of lost sales, despite what you may think -- whenever you ask people "Are you sure?", a lot of them will say "Hmm on second thought, I don't need to spend $5 to get that Grappler console after all".
If you see a problem with kids, then go after their parents. By the time that kid is playing a T-Rated game, they should have enough sense not to (A) Steal their parents' credit card, and (B) Charge up a ton of money on it. If they don't, then the parents did a crappy job raising that kid, and Cryptic shouldn't be held responsible for it. If a kid aged below the T-rating is playing, again... it's up to the parents to make sure they're ready to play said game.
Oh I forgot, thats the American ideology for raising children right? A child's safety online is not the responsibility of others but rests solely on the parent? Thats cool and all but what about when trading in countries that do not have those laws? What then? See, this is why I'm a bit confused, arn't Cryptic required to obey the trading laws of every country that they deal with?
I thought this was the reason why they could not open up the "Build the next Enterprise" contest to Europeans.
Its not gambling, its a contest with prizes, like McD's monopoly game and a zillion others. You buy a service, which is random access to program code. And the only parents who would give thier kids access to thier credit card are rich parents who clearly aren't paying enough taxes.
Considering that every lockbox contains some item and lobi, it is not the same as gambling. If the lockbox sometimes gave absolutely nothing, then it would be gambling. Basically lockboxes are the same as going to a Flea Market where you can buy a bag of random goods for $1.
Oh I forgot, thats the American ideology for raising children right? A child's safety online is not the responsibility of others but rests solely on the parent? Thats cool and all but what about when trading in countries that do not have those laws? What then? See, this is why I'm a bit confused, arn't Cryptic required to obey the trading laws of every country that they deal with?
I thought this was the reason why they could not open up the "Build the next Enterprise" contest to Europeans.
You tell me a country where looking after your own child is not your own responsibility in the western world (or most of the world for that matter) and I'll ask you what you are drinking because i want some.
As to the design the next Enterprise competition - that was regards to tax laws and laws regarding competitions (insert what ever that specific law is called in your non US territory in place of regarding competitions.)
Oh I forgot, thats the American ideology for raising children right? A child's safety online is not the responsibility of others but rests solely on the parent? Thats cool and all but what about when trading in countries that do not have those laws? What then? See, this is why I'm a bit confused, arn't Cryptic required to obey the trading laws of every country that they deal with?
I thought this was the reason why they could not open up the "Build the next Enterprise" contest to Europeans.
Where is the child's safety an issue here? Your entire argument is about a child charging a ton of money onto the parents' credit cards. The only potential harm to the child is if the dad finds the bill and spanks the brat raw with his belt.
Nice prejudice you're showing here against the United States, too.
Considering that every lockbox contains some item and lobi, it is not the same as gambling. If the lockbox sometimes gave absolutely nothing, then it would be gambling. Basically lockboxes are the same as going to a Flea Market where you can buy a bag of random goods for $1.
Maybe that's how they get away with it then... still a bit morally dodgy but not exactly illegal...
And hey, somebody did call European's a "nanny state"... Oh and btw, I'm British, not European... different thing. Just to let you know
You are wrong, it doesn't matter what the prize is... fact of the matter is, its exploitation of minors. Besides, I only asked for proof that it was legal, no need to jump on me like this because from where I stand, it looks surprisingly dodgy.
1) No, it is not exploitation of minors. Lock boxes are not marketed specifically at minors, nor are minors especially vulnerable to the draw of lock box prizes. Nothing indicates that there is a plot to fleece innocent young people in particular, above and beyond the desire to make money off the customer base in general.
2) The fact that you don't like something doesn't make it immoral. This is especially true with regard to commercial activity, where the fact that someone wants to charge more for a good than someone else wants to pay is often perceived as 'unfair', when in fact nobody has a 'right' or a 'need' for a digital good in a video game.
Correct, there are a few countries in Europe that still believe in self-reliance and personal judgement (read my list below) over governmental regulation. Now the countries that don't....
we just like to protect our children from online predators which don't just come in the form of individuals but companies as well. Its what is called "Good Service", most of the TV and ISP providers now have parental controls on their services, to prevent kids from buying things or accessing obscene material.
Cryptic have done nothing to protect children from being financially exploited and I find that to be quite scary actually. If Cryptic and PWE do not want to do this then they should be barred from trading in the UK.
Simple solution, go ahead and file your complaint with whatever U.K. agency that deals with this matter. Have fun, let us know how it works out.
As far as "protect children from being financially exploited", how many children have a charge card? How about this, Mom and Dad can:
A) Use a pre-paid (pre-loaded) credit card to pay for subscription fees. No money left on the card? No "exploitation purchases".
Buy a lifetime account and then go in and alter the credit card information to an incorrect charge card number, expiration date, security code, etc so the card cannot be used for future purchases.
C) Buy PWE sub-cards to pay for subscriptions and only give them out one per subscription period.
D) Set up a F2P account and don't attach credit card info to it
Teach the kid about finances before they're old enough to play a T-Rated game.
My dad sat down with me at a young age and explained money to me. He didn't specifically explain the family's finances (if a family is struggling financially, that's not a burden that should be placed on the kids), but teenagers should definitely know how money works, how credit works, etc.
Oh I forgot, thats the American ideology for raising children right? A child's safety online is not the responsibility of others but rests solely on the parent? Thats cool and all but what about when trading in countries that do not have those laws? What then? See, this is why I'm a bit confused, arn't Cryptic required to obey the trading laws of every country that they deal with?
I thought this was the reason why they could not open up the "Build the next Enterprise" contest to Europeans.
No, "American ideology" is to not let the child to be in a situation where they have access to the parents credit card and not to give a child a credit card. There are plenty of ways to not have an active credit card in STO (read the list I have offered that precedes this response)
Raise your thieving little progeny better if they are knowingly stealing from you, the Parent, and you wish it to stop.
Be a fracking parent so the next generation does not become one comprised of idiots whom think only of themselves.
No, "American ideology" is to not let the child to be in a situation where they have access to the parents credit card and not to give a child a credit card. There are plenty of ways to not have an active credit card in STO (read the list I have offered that precedes this response)
Plenty of things I could say, but I won't... So lets just end it here. I asked for an explanation of why this wasn't illegal and got one, albeit a bit rudely... lets just leave it at that.
Plenty of things I could say, but I won't... So lets just end it here. I asked for an explanation of why this wasn't illegal and got one, albeit a bit rudely... lets just leave it at that.
If you had asked for an explanation, you would have gotten a nice one, you flat out accused Cryptic of exploiting children... That's why most of our collective responses were blunt, if a little rude at times.
If you had asked for an explanation, you would have gotten a nice one, you flat out accused Cryptic of exploiting children... That's why most of opur collective responses were blunt, if a little rude at times.
Because that what it looks like and quite frankly, I'm still not completely convinced but since nobody seems to care that much, I won't bother dragging it out. Personally, I believe practices like that are somewhat morally wrong.
Maybe that's how they get away with it then... still a bit morally dodgy but not exactly illegal...
If you don't like the "morality" decisions of PWE, no one is forcing you to partake. If you think its practices are "not exactly illegal" (meaning of that phrase is that there is a degree of illegality) take your case to court.
If you don't like the "morality" decisions of PWE, no one is forcing you to partake. If you think its practices are "not exactly illegal" (meaning of that phrase is that there is a degree of illegality) take your case to court.
The U.K. is a part of the E.U. for pretty much everything except currency.
Unfortunately that is the case currently, but hopefully that will change in the coming years. Most UK citizens are not happy being part of the EU and want out because we had the decision made for us without consultation so I doubt that the UK will remain in the EU forever. (Saying that as a proactive member of United Kingdom Independence Party and proud of the work I do.)
We also do not submit to EU rules as much as other countries and still retain our own independent currency. In all the ways that effectively matter, we are not subservient to Europe and remain our own sovereign state.
let me translate this thread. " i cannot afford lockbox keys so i dont want anyone else to have any either"
you are playing a game for free.. and trying to mess over the company providing this game to you at the same time. if sto's terms of service look like almost every other games they probably reserve the right to ban you for no reason at any given time. and if i was them, thats what i would do
Yes! It is against the law! Interpol is crashing into their offices right now! Now, if you excuse me, I have to tighten my foil hat, and get back into my bomb shelter. The morality cops are looking for me....:P
If you think about it, the whole lockbox issue in these games are the same as Chuck E Cheese games.
When you buy the keys (tokens) you get a change to win items that only have as much value as you put on them and some lobi (tickets). The ships are nice but ultimately worth nothing. If CBS decides to pull the license from Cryptic the game will shutdown and you will be left with nothing except for a few screenshots and memories.
With real gambling you have the chance to win MONEY, that's why it's a problem with some people. One guy plays a $5 scratch and win and gets $500,000 he's set for life, another spends $28,000 on lotto tickets and wins nothing will keep trying until he ends up on the street or at the bottom of a river.
So there is almost no way for someone to get back ANY money they pay for a key. It is therefore NOT gambling.
How is cryptic breaking any lay the same would have to be said with any grab bag or trading card game same concept, you are garenteed 4 lobi plus 1 item, sorry this is a grab bag.
the keys are just used to pay for said grab bag.
-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
let me translate this thread. " i cannot afford lockbox keys so i dont want anyone else to have any either"
you are playing a game for free.. and trying to mess over the company providing this game to you at the same time. if sto's terms of service look like almost every other games they probably reserve the right to ban you for no reason at any given time. and if i was them, thats what i would do
Comments
Be a fracking parent so the next generation does not become one comprised of idiots whom think only of themselves.
R.I.P
Oh I forgot, thats the American ideology for raising children right? A child's safety online is not the responsibility of others but rests solely on the parent? Thats cool and all but what about when trading in countries that do not have those laws? What then? See, this is why I'm a bit confused, arn't Cryptic required to obey the trading laws of every country that they deal with?
I thought this was the reason why they could not open up the "Build the next Enterprise" contest to Europeans.
You tell me a country where looking after your own child is not your own responsibility in the western world (or most of the world for that matter) and I'll ask you what you are drinking because i want some.
As to the design the next Enterprise competition - that was regards to tax laws and laws regarding competitions (insert what ever that specific law is called in your non US territory in place of regarding competitions.)
Where is the child's safety an issue here? Your entire argument is about a child charging a ton of money onto the parents' credit cards. The only potential harm to the child is if the dad finds the bill and spanks the brat raw with his belt.
Nice prejudice you're showing here against the United States, too.
Maybe that's how they get away with it then... still a bit morally dodgy but not exactly illegal...
And hey, somebody did call European's a "nanny state"... Oh and btw, I'm British, not European... different thing. Just to let you know
1) No, it is not exploitation of minors. Lock boxes are not marketed specifically at minors, nor are minors especially vulnerable to the draw of lock box prizes. Nothing indicates that there is a plot to fleece innocent young people in particular, above and beyond the desire to make money off the customer base in general.
2) The fact that you don't like something doesn't make it immoral. This is especially true with regard to commercial activity, where the fact that someone wants to charge more for a good than someone else wants to pay is often perceived as 'unfair', when in fact nobody has a 'right' or a 'need' for a digital good in a video game.
Correct, there are a few countries in Europe that still believe in self-reliance and personal judgement (read my list below) over governmental regulation. Now the countries that don't....
Simple solution, go ahead and file your complaint with whatever U.K. agency that deals with this matter. Have fun, let us know how it works out.
As far as "protect children from being financially exploited", how many children have a charge card? How about this, Mom and Dad can:
A) Use a pre-paid (pre-loaded) credit card to pay for subscription fees. No money left on the card? No "exploitation purchases".
C) Buy PWE sub-cards to pay for subscriptions and only give them out one per subscription period.
D) Set up a F2P account and don't attach credit card info to it
E) Don't give the kid a credit card
anyone else want to add to this list?
Teach the kid about finances before they're old enough to play a T-Rated game.
My dad sat down with me at a young age and explained money to me. He didn't specifically explain the family's finances (if a family is struggling financially, that's not a burden that should be placed on the kids), but teenagers should definitely know how money works, how credit works, etc.
No, "American ideology" is to not let the child to be in a situation where they have access to the parents credit card and not to give a child a credit card. There are plenty of ways to not have an active credit card in STO (read the list I have offered that precedes this response)
Roach, you and I definitely think alike.
Plenty of things I could say, but I won't... So lets just end it here. I asked for an explanation of why this wasn't illegal and got one, albeit a bit rudely... lets just leave it at that.
Someone kick that horse to see if its still dead.
I thought it was 16 or older to buy them ?
DELTA PRICE RISING
If you had asked for an explanation, you would have gotten a nice one, you flat out accused Cryptic of exploiting children... That's why most of our collective responses were blunt, if a little rude at times.
Because that what it looks like and quite frankly, I'm still not completely convinced but since nobody seems to care that much, I won't bother dragging it out. Personally, I believe practices like that are somewhat morally wrong.
If you don't like the "morality" decisions of PWE, no one is forcing you to partake. If you think its practices are "not exactly illegal" (meaning of that phrase is that there is a degree of illegality) take your case to court.
The U.K. is a part of the E.U. for pretty much everything except currency.
Depends on the state. In my state, it is 18.
Unfortunately that is the case currently, but hopefully that will change in the coming years. Most UK citizens are not happy being part of the EU and want out because we had the decision made for us without consultation so I doubt that the UK will remain in the EU forever. (Saying that as a proactive member of United Kingdom Independence Party and proud of the work I do.)
We also do not submit to EU rules as much as other countries and still retain our own independent currency. In all the ways that effectively matter, we are not subservient to Europe and remain our own sovereign state.
No, that would be Continental.
So I guess you could say that the Brits are incontinental.
Well done, sir.
you are playing a game for free.. and trying to mess over the company providing this game to you at the same time. if sto's terms of service look like almost every other games they probably reserve the right to ban you for no reason at any given time. and if i was them, thats what i would do
When you buy the keys (tokens) you get a change to win items that only have as much value as you put on them and some lobi (tickets). The ships are nice but ultimately worth nothing. If CBS decides to pull the license from Cryptic the game will shutdown and you will be left with nothing except for a few screenshots and memories.
With real gambling you have the chance to win MONEY, that's why it's a problem with some people. One guy plays a $5 scratch and win and gets $500,000 he's set for life, another spends $28,000 on lotto tickets and wins nothing will keep trying until he ends up on the street or at the bottom of a river.
So there is almost no way for someone to get back ANY money they pay for a key. It is therefore NOT gambling.
the keys are just used to pay for said grab bag.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
I am pretty sure you nailed it on the head.