I have been playing for nearly 3 weeks again, (I quit OVER a year ago) and noticed something and now it's starting to annoy me.
The biggest issue is, the stuff you "really really" want, the game almost forces you to buy off the Zen store.
Dilthium is the most valued commodity in the game and you are only allowed to refine 8K a day. You get ore which is useless until refined, hence the 24hr restriction to refine. DIL is used to buy nearly everything. If you want to get more then a days worth you would have to buy Zen with real money then convert the Zen to fake (DIL) money. (Hence the nearly FORCED having to buy Zen to get DIL.)
Some ships costs ZEN AND DIL. This makes no sense because now you are paying almost double to get something.
Lock boxes are dropped which need "master keys" which of course you have to buy on the Zen store, which costs real money. Or buy it off the exchange for about 1.7Mil EC a piece. This is obvious the biggest money maker in the game, and probably the biggest rip off due to the fact most of the time you get TRIBBLE or you buy 10 keys at a time which cost 1200 ZEN which is ridiculous.
If you can deal with the insane prices for items and ships for the game, go ahead and play. If you can't afford to pay out the bucks don't bother to play. In all honesty. There is also no real advantage to subscribing. Why not even give people a discount off the store so now you are paying 15 dollars a month plus ZEN ? That is INSANE. Getting 500 ZEN a month is not worth it, as you would get that ANYWAY if you played the game for free.
When you join a FLEET you can get FLEET ships, but the only way to get THOSE is a FLEET MODULE. WHICH AGAIN OF COURSE you have to buy off then Zen store. (THAT IS A FORCED BUY. Don't tell me IT ISN'T).
They are 500 ZEN A PIECE. (That is INSANE). some ships need FIVE Modules. You can buy the equivalent refit ship on the ZEN STORE, to make it cost ONE fleet module but again it's half a dozen one way or the other, there is no difference. You end up paying the same thing.
So not only do you have to work your butt off in the game, you have to work your real job very hard and earn real money to play a game to earn fake stuff. It's become a very lucrative business this game and makes me more and more angry the more I find out how they nickel and dime you, and they set it up PERFECTLY.
This game is loaded with content now, but the way it's nickel and dimming you is insanity. It makes me angry I am having a lot of fun, but I become more angry as I find out what needs to be done just to earn things in the game.
Don't tell me it's the same thing if you paid 15.00 a month back in the day. You can spend well over $100.00 in this game in a DAY, then you did in a YEAR with other sub games. Still earn the same stuff.
How can NO ONE else be annoyed by this?
You say very little for so many words
"Wise men speak because they have something to say ; fools because they have to say something" ~Plato~
myself i think they have got the free to play balance just right, if anything i would say that stol is more biased towards free players than it is to gold members, i have been playing just over a year now and i have most of the stuff from the c-store that i want and i have never spent one penny on any of it.
sure i had to play long and hard to get the things i wanted but it was great fun in the process and much more rewarding when i was able to get the gear i was after.
the few small benifits you gain from being gold are not that special to me and i can happily live without them.
i may one day pay for life membership as i think this is the best value for gold status but its not that high an issue at the moment and i am quite happy to remain ftp.
even with the game as it is now i think its pritty awsome, now with the new content that comes with lor (and ive played the tribble closed and open beta so i know what im talking about) this is by far the best mmorpg you will see for a long time to come.
i tip my hat to all the people at perfect world and cryptic and i say a jolly big thank you one and all.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
so you did not play for a year
and now u mad bro because the rewards for playing are out of instant-gratification-reach for you at the moment.
Yes you have the option to pay money to buy stuff.
Nobody forces you to pay, sure Cryptic wants you to pay them, that is why all the shiny stuff has the OPTION... they have to make money somehow after all (and imho they deserve money, but really not as much as they are asking for *points at Legacy Pack* :rolleyes: ).
BUT you also have the option to see it as a personal GOAL.
I want Ship / Item X, now i PLAY to get it.
-> once you have it without paying $ you can be PROUD of your achievement.
The 8000 limit is per character,
if 8000 is not enough for you / if the dil ORE keeps piling up faster than you can refine it,
make more Characters!!!!
Once you hit your 8000 you swap to the next character and keep playing that one.
I got 10 Characters so i can in theory refine 80.000 a day (at the current exchange rate that is easy 500 Zen per day!)... and this has been known to happen more often than one would expect.
So these super expensive 5000 Zen Ship 3 Packs -> i can do that in 10 days if i really want.
Usually i do maybe 2000 - 4000 per character, but even with 2000 that is still 20.000 dil per day for the minimum amount of effort ( = 4600 Zen a month ) in the daily grind, and THAT is already enough to pay for everything in the c-store that is released this month... and it takes less than an hour, any natural playtime on top of that is Bonus Zen.
While you were AFK, i have spend every day in the last year doing my daily Dilithium Grind... gaming the exchange and on occasion just played for fun.
by now i have EVERYTHING in the C-Store (spare some items i REALLY do NOT need or want) and i am sitting at the moment on 34000 Zen because the C-Store asks for less money than i can actually earn in-game... and i'm not a LockBox addict, so that helps to keep my Zen on the account.
That is even enough Zen to get everything in the Legacy Pack instantly once it's available on the C-Store without paying a single $ and still having enough for the next 2 - 3 months of regular C-Store releases.
In that time i will make the next bunch of Zen and stay ahead of the curve again.
You of course need to not only get the new stuff, but also all the old stuff, so that requires extra effort because you were lazy that last year ;P
Is the game nickle and diming us on every corner, yes, if you are on the paying end of the game economy and want to see it like that.
But you also can see it like if the game is giving you a reason to play!
@ LockBoxes:
Don't bother opening them unless you really want the LOBI for the Lobi Store.
The chances of getting anything decent are so low and random it is pure gambling.
Not worth it.
Best approach is to get lots of Energy Credits (you have to game the exchange or find a Item that you can produce and sells well that gets you lots of EC) because MOST of the stuff in the Lobi Store and inside the Lockboxes is tradable on the Exchange.
A LockBox usually will stay around for 3 Months.
Making 100+ Million EC In 3 Months is absolutely doable if you put a bit of effort into it and that is enough to get any current LockBox Ship. (spare the crazy expensive Jem'Hadar Attack Ship).
I got everything from every Lockbox that i wanted, i skipped 2 LockBoxes entirely because i just didn't care for the Tholian and Temporal Ships and i always end up having more EC than i need before the next LockBox arrives.
Even with more than just one Ship in a LockBox now i can still manage to get them all.
If i can get everything, then you can get at least a few things that you really want.
oh and if you think 34k Zen is crazy much... i know a guy who is sitting on 100k + Zen
i am actually only producing what i can use, that dude just wants to be filthy rich for the sake of being filthy rich.
And if there are any concerns that this type of playing does not support Cryptic...
think again!
That dude is sitting on $1000 of in-game money that no one else will be able to consume.
It doesn't matter if he spends it on C-Store items or blows it all on LockBoxes or just sits on it forever. Cryptic already has the RL money and he took the Zen out of the hands of other Players, so in effect he is useful to the economy and Cryptics outcome.
And just FYI: i've spend about $800 - $1000 on STO before it went F2P, so i REALLY do NOT feel bad about playing 100% free now.
Oh grow up, nothing is free in this world everything has a cost for someone. This game is free to play because a few people pay. I am a Lifetime Sub not just for the perks but because I want this game to be around for me to play for however long I have left on this earth. I'm not just a STO Vet I'm a disabled American Vet. I depend on this game to keep my mind active and I don't mind spending my bread money if it means the game will continue to be here. Do you think LOR just appeared out of thin air? The DEVS and their teams are paid by those of us who subscribe and buy zen. F2P is not a right it is a privilege EC may take some work to get but it is still free and you can buy anything you need to play with it without it costing you anything but time.
As far as cost goes this game is a blessing compaired to others. Battlestar Galatica online you have to grind for aprox a year (and thats a conservative estimate) to get 1 ship to max level, And if you buy Zen to get your ship to max level it cost more that $2000, and that is just for 1 ship. There are some players on that game that have spent over 20k to level up all thier gear and ships and to buy the best ammo. And that is not an exaggeration. If you think PWE is greedy they are saints compaired to Bigpoint games. If you spent $300 on this game you could get a Bug ship with all purple consoles and XII purple weapons and a set of 5 purple Doffs. $300 on BSGO and you could just buy one advanced ship and perhaps level up 1 or 2 guns to level 10 (max is 15) most ships have at least 8 guns. My point is STO players have it good compaired to other online games and people that complain about the cost have no idea how bad other games are and how good we have it.
I'll agree that the way things are set up in STO absolutely sucks for people like you OP, and me as well, who don't have the patience to slowly work towards it through dili.
But, the point stands that everything on the Zen store, you simply don't need to be of use, not to mention you can, with a lot of patience, get most of what's on the Zen store for free by farming dili.
I often find myself buying Zen to get dili because I can't be arsed to play STFs nonstop for several days to get enough dili for something that used to cost only EDCs or specific salvage.
Truly, the way the STF repu pretty much screws STFers over is the only thing that annoys me, since you have to make like three times the effort to get the same things you could get before, first you have to reach the tier required, then you have to unlock something and THEN you have to get the dili to actually buy it.
I totally undertand you,.. I for once want one of those ships but thats 2500 Zen or 5000 Zen. It would probably take me 2 years to save up that Zen as a causal free player. I am already spending to much time on the game and I am still not even near 1000 Zen. I can't invest in real money so for it will be the slow and sad road. There a tons of things I want to get. If you ask me I would hope that they at least increase the cap or half the prices on Zen store.
I totally undertand you,.. I for once want one of those ships but thats 2500 Zen or 5000 Zen. It would probably take me 2 years to save up that Zen as a causal free player. I am already spending to much time on the game and I am still not even near 1000 Zen. I can't invest in real money so for it will be the slow and sad road. There a tons of things I want to get. If you ask me I would hope that they at least increase the cap or half the prices on Zen store.
On the exchange you can buy lock box ships like the mirror universe escorts, science vessels or cruisers. They may not be Vice Admiral ships or fleet ships but they are better ships than those we get for free. Also, at times you can find fleet modules or lock box keys for a high amount of EC. Some of these ships run around 500K to 500Mil EC a lot but with mining loot drops you can get it done.
I totally undertand you,.. I for once want one of those ships but thats 2500 Zen or 5000 Zen. It would probably take me 2 years to save up that Zen as a causal free player. I am already spending to much time on the game and I am still not even near 1000 Zen. I can't invest in real money so for it will be the slow and sad road. There a tons of things I want to get. If you ask me I would hope that they at least increase the cap or half the prices on Zen store.
First step, learn which missions pay the most Dilithium. For example, a Foundry Spotlight will pay around 2,400 Dilithium for about 15 minutes of playing - you only need to read all the text the first time you do it. 2 characters doing that per day and you're over half-way to your 8k in around 30 minutes. Throw in 1 Contraband mission and some basic Doffing with those 2 characters and you can easily make 8k per day in about 45 minutes.
8,000 per day is 40,000 per week - assuming you play 5 days per week for about an hour each day. At around 135 Exchange rate that's about 300 Zen per week: 1,200-1,500 Zen per month, just from playing around 1 hour 5 days a week. And the more you play the more you can earn.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
OP, first of all, wellcome back.
Now please don't get this the wrong way, I'm not trying to bash your opinions, I'm just going to share mine on the issues you brought up and maybe give you another perspective on the things.
The biggest issue is, the stuff you "really really" want, the game almost forces you to buy off the Zen store.
Dilthium is the most valued commodity in the game and you are only allowed to refine 8K a day. You get ore which is useless until refined, hence the 24hr restriction to refine. DIL is used to buy nearly everything. If you want to get more then a days worth you would have to buy Zen with real money then convert the Zen to fake (DIL) money. (Hence the nearly FORCED having to buy Zen to get DIL.)
The things people "really really want" are quite subjective. Someone really wants a Vesta bundle and he'll have to fork out 5k zen for it. Another person really wants a Hegh'ta BoP and the gets it for free.
It's similar to how the real life works - I really want a Ferrari, but what I actually need is a car. Now any car wouldn't be as cool and awesome as the Ferrari, but it will get the job done. Same in STO - every faction has access to a nice selection of free T5 ships that can get the job done and especially a big portion of the Klingon players manage to do awesome work with those free T5 ships we have availible.
However, even if you have your heart set up to some of the C-Store ships, there is a mechanism in STO that allows you to obtain one without spending real money. You'll have to work for it, which is only fair in my book.
Then as others have mentioned, if you get more than 1 char, you have the additional 8k to refine per day. Also, already mentioned in replies before, but if there were no refinment cap the dilithuim exchange would crash and burn, essentialy destroying the F2P model Cryptic has installed for STO. Because believe me, there are people that would literraly spend day and night grinding dil. if there is no cap. Sounds strange, but we all know that this kind of people are out there.
Lock boxes are dropped which need "master keys" which of course you have to buy on the Zen store, which costs real money. Or buy it off the exchange for about 1.7Mil EC a piece. This is obvious the biggest money maker in the game, and probably the biggest rip off due to the fact most of the time you get TRIBBLE or you buy 10 keys at a time which cost 1200 ZEN which is ridiculous.
The biggest money maker? Yeah, it seems so. Don't forget that the devs. are people too, that have to eat, live, pay bills and even have families and children to feed, put through school etc. Something has to make money for the game in order to keep it allive and add new content. Would you do your job for free?
The biggest rip-off? Not so much. Why? Because it's a lottery that noone is in any form obliged to participate in. When you do participate, you do so willingly and aware that you are taking part of a lottery that may have you end up with something you didn't really need.
Personally, I like opening the boxes from time to time, but I don't do it for the ships. I do it for the doff packs and some other neat items that are unique to a certain lockbox. I also do it for the lobi that allows me to get some cool items like warrior skrits, timeship uniforms or unique consoles. So I never feel cheated, I usually get what I was after. If a ship pops up, all the better, but I don't treat it as a must have.
The biggest argument against the lockboxes is made by people that feel they must get a certain ship. They get frustrated that they don't, when it never said that they'll have to get one eventualy. A guy can open 10 boxes and get 8 ships and another guy can open 1000 of them and don't get one. It's lady luck, if you play the lottery you have to be prepared for such an outcome as well.
If you can deal with the insane prices for items and ships for the game, go ahead and play. If you can't afford to pay out the bucks don't bother to play. In all honesty. There is also no real advantage to subscribing. Why not even give people a discount off the store so now you are paying 15 dollars a month plus ZEN ? That is INSANE. Getting 500 ZEN a month is not worth it, as you would get that ANYWAY if you played the game for free.
When you join a FLEET you can get FLEET ships, but the only way to get THOSE is a FLEET MODULE. WHICH AGAIN OF COURSE you have to buy off then Zen store. (THAT IS A FORCED BUY. Don't tell me IT ISN'T).
They are 500 ZEN A PIECE. (That is INSANE). some ships need FIVE Modules. You can buy the equivalent refit ship on the ZEN STORE, to make it cost ONE fleet module but again it's half a dozen one way or the other, there is no difference. You end up paying the same thing.
Explain to me a forced buy? Who's forcing you to buy it? The only one that can force you to buy a fleet ship is yourself. There is no content that is locked behind owning a fleet ship.
The fleet modules can also be found on the exchange for EC.
BTW, you can get retrofits of certain ships in the fleet shipyard that don't cost modules, only fleet marks.
Actually, I don't feel forced to do anything in STO. STO is very loose on what you can do without the "have to" element being forced upon you.
In fact, not being forced into anything in this game has actually stimulated me to become a Gold subscriber, preorder the Starter Pack for LoR and buy master keys to open lockboxes. Because I apreciate not being forced into anything and like that about this game a lot.
So not only do you have to work your butt off in the game, you have to work your real job very hard and earn real money to play a game to earn fake stuff. It's become a very lucrative business this game and makes me more and more angry the more I find out how they nickel and dime you, and they set it up PERFECTLY.
This game is loaded with content now, but the way it's nickel and dimming you is insanity. It makes me angry I am having a lot of fun, but I become more angry as I find out what needs to be done just to earn things in the game.
Don't tell me it's the same thing if you paid 15.00 a month back in the day. You can spend well over $100.00 in this game in a DAY, then you did in a YEAR with other sub games. Still earn the same stuff.
How can NO ONE else be annoyed by this?
Seriously? You say STO is nickel and dimming for content a day before the game's first expansion, that happens to be completely free?
In other games you would pay for this expansion. In STO you get it for free and not only that, but you can play it completely for free - because in STO you have all the assets you need to go through the playing experience given to us for free.
Sure, there are some nice toys that can be purchased, but again, if STO makes no money there will be no STO. Because no dev. is insane enough to work for free no matter how much he/she likes Star Trek. And even then, all that can be purchased in STO can be obtained by playing the game, so you can't really say that STO is nickel and diming you.
You see, the way I see it is that you only have to work your but off in the game if you're a member of the group of "must have it right away" players. For me, the game is a linear experience that goes forward. I may log in today in my regular spare time and do one mission. I may log in the same time tomorrow and see there's fleet mark bonus event, so I'll do that. Eventually, I'll obtain everything I desire, but at my own pace while having fun doing it and never feel that I had to work my butt off in STO or start feeling as it is my second job.
While it's true a lot of ships and neat consoles are in the C-Store it's also true that technically you could grind dilithium and convert it to Zen and not actually pay anything for anything in this game. STO is one of the only MMO that I know of that is truly free 2 play. I gather from your post you want instant gratification. MMO's are boring unless you are working towards something. So work towards whatever ship/gear you want. There are a lot of ways to farm dilithium and eventually you will convert enough to get whatever you want.
While it's true a lot of ships and neat consoles are in the C-Store it's also true that technically you could grind dilithium and convert it to Zen and not actually pay anything for anything in this game. STO is one of the only MMO that I know of that is truly free 2 play. I gather from your post you want instant gratification. MMO's are boring unless you are working towards something. So work towards whatever ship/gear you want. There are a lot of ways to farm dilithium and eventually you will convert enough to get whatever you want.
Actually NO. I have been playing this game since CLOSED BETA. Bugged STF's and all. Horrible Terradome. Dieing 50 times from the Borg Queen. But I GRINDED and EARNED my stuff. The borg stuff, the aegis stuff. Now with Aegis you are again FORCED to buy these weird traces on the DIL store that of course, cost DIL. Which wastes more DIL and causes you even LONGER to earn a decent amount to even buy one thing. I worked my butt off from day one to get my character to where it is. This isn't about earning anymore, it's who has the most money. Things in this game could take you over a year to get. That's not "earning it" that is just plain ridiculous.
This game is purposely setup so eventually you will have to trade Zen for DIL or DIL for Zen. Even if you wanted to trade DIL for ZEN that will TAKE FOREVER because of the 8K a day limit. NOT EVERYONE wants to have MULTIPLE toons.
There comes a line between getting boring and then actually earning something. The game would become far unplayable after awhile just to earn one thing, without having to pay for something.
So don't give me that TRIBBLE that I didn't earn or grind, because believe me I did. I worked my butt off in those STF's (the old ones) and then some. Every single Episode in the series, gaining everything in the BReen, Borg, Constantly grinding in the Gamma Orioinis sector.
How do you earn more character slots? How do you earn more DOFF slots? How do you earn more bank space?? YOU CAN'T you have to BUY IT. And the prices are outrageous for a few more slots to put stuff in.
This game is purposely setup so eventually you will have to trade Zen for DIL or DIL for Zen. Even if you wanted to trade DIL for ZEN that will TAKE FOREVER because of the 8K a day limit.
This is absolutely outrageous for a game financed entierly by unicorn farts and the prayers of small children.
How do you earn more character slots? How do you earn more DOFF slots? How do you earn more bank space?? YOU CAN'T you have to BUY IT. And the prices are outrageous for a few more slots to put stuff in.
You do end-game missions which pay Dilithium. You then trade that Dilithium for Zen. You then use the Zen to buy whatever you want.
Don't confuse immediate gratification with impossible. The average player can make over 1,700 Zen per month playing a couple of hours a day on a single character. How many FTP MMOs can you name where someone like me can buy everything new the game offers for sale each month without ever spending a dime?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
How do you earn more character slots? How do you earn more DOFF slots? How do you earn more bank space?? YOU CAN'T you have to BUY IT.
All of that can be purchased with dilithium. Two character slots is 650 zen which can be bought with 84k dilithium at current exchange. With just one active character that is 11 days of time-gate delay, two characters will get it done in 6 days. Then after that you can grind 4 characters per day if you want to increase your processing rate. Its entirely possible to do pretty much everything without paying real money. You may not want to do it, but that is something else entirely.
Or you can give them $10 for stuff every so often, just because you like playing. Older games on ebay cost about that much, so I dont mind giving them a couple of bucks every so often. I get more enjoyment from this game than I do from eating at McDonalds once a month, so I dont mind paying for stuff once in a while.
All of that can be purchased with dilithium. Two character slots is 650 zen which can be bought with 84k dilithium at current exchange. With just one active character that is 11 days of time-gate delay, two characters will get it done in 6 days. Then after that you can grind 4 characters per day if you want to increase your processing rate. Its entirely possible to do pretty much everything without paying real money. You may not want to do it, but that is something else entirely.
Or you can give them $10 for stuff every so often, just because you like playing. Older games on ebay cost about that much, so I dont mind giving them a couple of bucks every so often. I get more enjoyment from this game than I do from eating at McDonalds once a month, so I dont mind paying for stuff once in a while.
Even the lobi ships are accessable via the exchange for in the end low prices.. okay its like 80mios but if you're at least modest in your play you can easily farm that in under a week if need be.
You invalidate everything you write by claiming that 80 million ec is something you can earn through modest play in under a week.
You do end-game missions which pay Dilithium. You then trade that Dilithium for Zen. You then use the Zen to buy whatever you want.
Don't confuse immediate gratification with impossible. The average player can make over 1,700 Zen per month playing a couple of hours a day on a single character. How many FTP MMOs can you name where someone like me can buy everything new the game offers for sale each month without ever spending a dime?
You forget - all of that zen is being bought by someone, somewhere, at sometime.
You invalidate everything you write by claiming that 80 million ec is something you can earn through modest play in under a week.
No, it's possible. It takes a combination of selling various things on the Exchange and running some events, but it's quite possible to do without a terrible grind.
You forget - all of that zen is being bought by someone, somewhere, at sometime.
And? What's your point? He didn't forget anything. People buy Zen off the Dilithium Exchange, use it to get stuff off the C-Store. That's not surprising, so I don't know what you're driving at.
____
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
Comments
What?! Sheesh! Thanks, Obama!
You say very little for so many words
"Wise men speak because they have something to say ; fools because they have to say something" ~Plato~
sure i had to play long and hard to get the things i wanted but it was great fun in the process and much more rewarding when i was able to get the gear i was after.
the few small benifits you gain from being gold are not that special to me and i can happily live without them.
i may one day pay for life membership as i think this is the best value for gold status but its not that high an issue at the moment and i am quite happy to remain ftp.
even with the game as it is now i think its pritty awsome, now with the new content that comes with lor (and ive played the tribble closed and open beta so i know what im talking about) this is by far the best mmorpg you will see for a long time to come.
i tip my hat to all the people at perfect world and cryptic and i say a jolly big thank you one and all.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
and now u mad bro because the rewards for playing are out of instant-gratification-reach for you at the moment.
Yes you have the option to pay money to buy stuff.
Nobody forces you to pay, sure Cryptic wants you to pay them, that is why all the shiny stuff has the OPTION... they have to make money somehow after all (and imho they deserve money, but really not as much as they are asking for *points at Legacy Pack* :rolleyes: ).
BUT you also have the option to see it as a personal GOAL.
I want Ship / Item X, now i PLAY to get it.
-> once you have it without paying $ you can be PROUD of your achievement.
The 8000 limit is per character,
if 8000 is not enough for you / if the dil ORE keeps piling up faster than you can refine it,
make more Characters!!!!
Once you hit your 8000 you swap to the next character and keep playing that one.
I got 10 Characters so i can in theory refine 80.000 a day (at the current exchange rate that is easy 500 Zen per day!)... and this has been known to happen more often than one would expect.
So these super expensive 5000 Zen Ship 3 Packs -> i can do that in 10 days if i really want.
Usually i do maybe 2000 - 4000 per character, but even with 2000 that is still 20.000 dil per day for the minimum amount of effort ( = 4600 Zen a month ) in the daily grind, and THAT is already enough to pay for everything in the c-store that is released this month... and it takes less than an hour, any natural playtime on top of that is Bonus Zen.
While you were AFK, i have spend every day in the last year doing my daily Dilithium Grind... gaming the exchange and on occasion just played for fun.
by now i have EVERYTHING in the C-Store (spare some items i REALLY do NOT need or want) and i am sitting at the moment on 34000 Zen because the C-Store asks for less money than i can actually earn in-game... and i'm not a LockBox addict, so that helps to keep my Zen on the account.
That is even enough Zen to get everything in the Legacy Pack instantly once it's available on the C-Store without paying a single $ and still having enough for the next 2 - 3 months of regular C-Store releases.
In that time i will make the next bunch of Zen and stay ahead of the curve again.
You of course need to not only get the new stuff, but also all the old stuff, so that requires extra effort because you were lazy that last year ;P
Is the game nickle and diming us on every corner, yes, if you are on the paying end of the game economy and want to see it like that.
But you also can see it like if the game is giving you a reason to play!
@ LockBoxes:
Don't bother opening them unless you really want the LOBI for the Lobi Store.
The chances of getting anything decent are so low and random it is pure gambling.
Not worth it.
Best approach is to get lots of Energy Credits (you have to game the exchange or find a Item that you can produce and sells well that gets you lots of EC) because MOST of the stuff in the Lobi Store and inside the Lockboxes is tradable on the Exchange.
A LockBox usually will stay around for 3 Months.
Making 100+ Million EC In 3 Months is absolutely doable if you put a bit of effort into it and that is enough to get any current LockBox Ship. (spare the crazy expensive Jem'Hadar Attack Ship).
I got everything from every Lockbox that i wanted, i skipped 2 LockBoxes entirely because i just didn't care for the Tholian and Temporal Ships and i always end up having more EC than i need before the next LockBox arrives.
Even with more than just one Ship in a LockBox now i can still manage to get them all.
If i can get everything, then you can get at least a few things that you really want.
oh and if you think 34k Zen is crazy much... i know a guy who is sitting on 100k + Zen
i am actually only producing what i can use, that dude just wants to be filthy rich for the sake of being filthy rich.
And if there are any concerns that this type of playing does not support Cryptic...
think again!
That dude is sitting on $1000 of in-game money that no one else will be able to consume.
It doesn't matter if he spends it on C-Store items or blows it all on LockBoxes or just sits on it forever. Cryptic already has the RL money and he took the Zen out of the hands of other Players, so in effect he is useful to the economy and Cryptics outcome.
And just FYI: i've spend about $800 - $1000 on STO before it went F2P, so i REALLY do NOT feel bad about playing 100% free now.
But, the point stands that everything on the Zen store, you simply don't need to be of use, not to mention you can, with a lot of patience, get most of what's on the Zen store for free by farming dili.
I often find myself buying Zen to get dili because I can't be arsed to play STFs nonstop for several days to get enough dili for something that used to cost only EDCs or specific salvage.
Truly, the way the STF repu pretty much screws STFers over is the only thing that annoys me, since you have to make like three times the effort to get the same things you could get before, first you have to reach the tier required, then you have to unlock something and THEN you have to get the dili to actually buy it.
On the exchange you can buy lock box ships like the mirror universe escorts, science vessels or cruisers. They may not be Vice Admiral ships or fleet ships but they are better ships than those we get for free. Also, at times you can find fleet modules or lock box keys for a high amount of EC. Some of these ships run around 500K to 500Mil EC a lot but with mining loot drops you can get it done.
Minus a handful of items you have access to everything. If anything the paying people should be getting more.
8,000 per day is 40,000 per week - assuming you play 5 days per week for about an hour each day. At around 135 Exchange rate that's about 300 Zen per week: 1,200-1,500 Zen per month, just from playing around 1 hour 5 days a week. And the more you play the more you can earn.
Now please don't get this the wrong way, I'm not trying to bash your opinions, I'm just going to share mine on the issues you brought up and maybe give you another perspective on the things.
The things people "really really want" are quite subjective. Someone really wants a Vesta bundle and he'll have to fork out 5k zen for it. Another person really wants a Hegh'ta BoP and the gets it for free.
It's similar to how the real life works - I really want a Ferrari, but what I actually need is a car. Now any car wouldn't be as cool and awesome as the Ferrari, but it will get the job done. Same in STO - every faction has access to a nice selection of free T5 ships that can get the job done and especially a big portion of the Klingon players manage to do awesome work with those free T5 ships we have availible.
However, even if you have your heart set up to some of the C-Store ships, there is a mechanism in STO that allows you to obtain one without spending real money. You'll have to work for it, which is only fair in my book.
Then as others have mentioned, if you get more than 1 char, you have the additional 8k to refine per day. Also, already mentioned in replies before, but if there were no refinment cap the dilithuim exchange would crash and burn, essentialy destroying the F2P model Cryptic has installed for STO. Because believe me, there are people that would literraly spend day and night grinding dil. if there is no cap. Sounds strange, but we all know that this kind of people are out there.
There is absolutely no ship in STO that costs Zen and dilithium at the same time.
The biggest money maker? Yeah, it seems so. Don't forget that the devs. are people too, that have to eat, live, pay bills and even have families and children to feed, put through school etc. Something has to make money for the game in order to keep it allive and add new content. Would you do your job for free?
The biggest rip-off? Not so much. Why? Because it's a lottery that noone is in any form obliged to participate in. When you do participate, you do so willingly and aware that you are taking part of a lottery that may have you end up with something you didn't really need.
Personally, I like opening the boxes from time to time, but I don't do it for the ships. I do it for the doff packs and some other neat items that are unique to a certain lockbox. I also do it for the lobi that allows me to get some cool items like warrior skrits, timeship uniforms or unique consoles. So I never feel cheated, I usually get what I was after. If a ship pops up, all the better, but I don't treat it as a must have.
The biggest argument against the lockboxes is made by people that feel they must get a certain ship. They get frustrated that they don't, when it never said that they'll have to get one eventualy. A guy can open 10 boxes and get 8 ships and another guy can open 1000 of them and don't get one. It's lady luck, if you play the lottery you have to be prepared for such an outcome as well.
Explain to me a forced buy? Who's forcing you to buy it? The only one that can force you to buy a fleet ship is yourself. There is no content that is locked behind owning a fleet ship.
The fleet modules can also be found on the exchange for EC.
BTW, you can get retrofits of certain ships in the fleet shipyard that don't cost modules, only fleet marks.
Actually, I don't feel forced to do anything in STO. STO is very loose on what you can do without the "have to" element being forced upon you.
In fact, not being forced into anything in this game has actually stimulated me to become a Gold subscriber, preorder the Starter Pack for LoR and buy master keys to open lockboxes. Because I apreciate not being forced into anything and like that about this game a lot.
Seriously? You say STO is nickel and dimming for content a day before the game's first expansion, that happens to be completely free?
In other games you would pay for this expansion. In STO you get it for free and not only that, but you can play it completely for free - because in STO you have all the assets you need to go through the playing experience given to us for free.
Sure, there are some nice toys that can be purchased, but again, if STO makes no money there will be no STO. Because no dev. is insane enough to work for free no matter how much he/she likes Star Trek. And even then, all that can be purchased in STO can be obtained by playing the game, so you can't really say that STO is nickel and diming you.
You see, the way I see it is that you only have to work your but off in the game if you're a member of the group of "must have it right away" players. For me, the game is a linear experience that goes forward. I may log in today in my regular spare time and do one mission. I may log in the same time tomorrow and see there's fleet mark bonus event, so I'll do that. Eventually, I'll obtain everything I desire, but at my own pace while having fun doing it and never feel that I had to work my butt off in STO or start feeling as it is my second job.
Actually NO. I have been playing this game since CLOSED BETA. Bugged STF's and all. Horrible Terradome. Dieing 50 times from the Borg Queen. But I GRINDED and EARNED my stuff. The borg stuff, the aegis stuff. Now with Aegis you are again FORCED to buy these weird traces on the DIL store that of course, cost DIL. Which wastes more DIL and causes you even LONGER to earn a decent amount to even buy one thing. I worked my butt off from day one to get my character to where it is. This isn't about earning anymore, it's who has the most money. Things in this game could take you over a year to get. That's not "earning it" that is just plain ridiculous.
This game is purposely setup so eventually you will have to trade Zen for DIL or DIL for Zen. Even if you wanted to trade DIL for ZEN that will TAKE FOREVER because of the 8K a day limit. NOT EVERYONE wants to have MULTIPLE toons.
There comes a line between getting boring and then actually earning something. The game would become far unplayable after awhile just to earn one thing, without having to pay for something.
So don't give me that TRIBBLE that I didn't earn or grind, because believe me I did. I worked my butt off in those STF's (the old ones) and then some. Every single Episode in the series, gaining everything in the BReen, Borg, Constantly grinding in the Gamma Orioinis sector.
How do you earn more character slots? How do you earn more DOFF slots? How do you earn more bank space?? YOU CAN'T you have to BUY IT. And the prices are outrageous for a few more slots to put stuff in.
This is absolutely outrageous for a game financed entierly by unicorn farts and the prayers of small children.
Don't confuse immediate gratification with impossible. The average player can make over 1,700 Zen per month playing a couple of hours a day on a single character. How many FTP MMOs can you name where someone like me can buy everything new the game offers for sale each month without ever spending a dime?
Or you can give them $10 for stuff every so often, just because you like playing. Older games on ebay cost about that much, so I dont mind giving them a couple of bucks every so often. I get more enjoyment from this game than I do from eating at McDonalds once a month, so I dont mind paying for stuff once in a while.
Right also PWE gift cards cost $10 for 1000 zen
You invalidate everything you write by claiming that 80 million ec is something you can earn through modest play in under a week.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You forget - all of that zen is being bought by someone, somewhere, at sometime.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No, it's possible. It takes a combination of selling various things on the Exchange and running some events, but it's quite possible to do without a terrible grind.
And? What's your point? He didn't forget anything. People buy Zen off the Dilithium Exchange, use it to get stuff off the C-Store. That's not surprising, so I don't know what you're driving at.
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.