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Nerf Tier 4 Romulan Placate Reputation Passive Please!
afree100
Member Posts: 332 Arc User
Anyone I have ever talked to (that I can remember) thinks it is OP. That includes a lot of PvPers who know what they are doing.
Analogy: Traffic Lights, know what it feels like to get a red light when you are on the way to work (even though I have never driven a car its a nice analogy), exactly the same in PvP with the passive except not quite as critical (obviously this is a game not work), it prolongs matches far too much and does not make it fun in the least, a long PvP match is tiring and annoying and I bet a ton of people have quit 1v1 matches due to a tie because of this passive, while this does affect 1v1 the most, it is still very annoying in team matches.
Although I must admit it makes crusiers more durable (that is a good thing since they are usually super easy to take down) in matches since every time you try to Alpha them (in an escort) they placate you, you can barely damage them before there next aux2batt cd reduced reverse shield polarity comes along, definataly have a finger on the ESC key to stop firing in preparation so it dosen't begin all over again (although good for the crusier captain incredibly annoying for the escort)...
This placate does not affect PvE at all and it makes PvP much less fun...
I know it has been out a long time but that dosen't change how annoying it is.
There venting done,
to lighten the mood.
Please no trolling or flaming or whatever, just say if you support or disagree with this post, and if you disagree please politely explain why.
Analogy: Traffic Lights, know what it feels like to get a red light when you are on the way to work (even though I have never driven a car its a nice analogy), exactly the same in PvP with the passive except not quite as critical (obviously this is a game not work), it prolongs matches far too much and does not make it fun in the least, a long PvP match is tiring and annoying and I bet a ton of people have quit 1v1 matches due to a tie because of this passive, while this does affect 1v1 the most, it is still very annoying in team matches.
Although I must admit it makes crusiers more durable (that is a good thing since they are usually super easy to take down) in matches since every time you try to Alpha them (in an escort) they placate you, you can barely damage them before there next aux2batt cd reduced reverse shield polarity comes along, definataly have a finger on the ESC key to stop firing in preparation so it dosen't begin all over again (although good for the crusier captain incredibly annoying for the escort)...
This placate does not affect PvE at all and it makes PvP much less fun...
I know it has been out a long time but that dosen't change how annoying it is.
There venting done,
to lighten the mood.Please no trolling or flaming or whatever, just say if you support or disagree with this post, and if you disagree please politely explain why.
Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honor Guard
Post edited by afree100 on
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Comments
But only to some extent
While on the one hand, being biased towards anything that helps cruisers, I want to say keep it if it hurts escorts! but in all honestly I cannot in good conscience maintain that mindset.
I will say though that with the leadership nerf on tribble right now, it becomes more of the "just saved your butt" rather than "part of making me immortal" kind of skill.
In the matches I have done, the leadership change has made quite a stark difference in how a long fight goes. I cannot speak for more than a few testing and half team organized fights though, but I suspect (and hope) that just this slight change, plus all the fiddly bits of EPtX changes, specifically weapons, RCS changes, and the warp core bonuses do in fact level things out quite a bit, making for much shorter, but much more intense pvp matches.
And combined with the Crippling Strikes (or whatever it's called) passive that puts -Acc on your opponent when you Crit, it's only going to get all the better.
And yes, the placate proc is significantly more beneficial in 1v1's, but i think its overall less useful in team fights.
Really im fine just ditching the whole passives for PvP and ignore them there, just let them apply to PvE only, all problems solved. (Well except that u still have 2 grind to get the Maco etc sh*t.
It cant be beneficial if both have it.Its a way to loose your target every few seconds .Its the most annoying thing with no logic behind it.You loose your target enough to be annoying but not long enough to use it in your advantage...stupid system is stupid.
I hoped the nukara grind system will have a passive to give immunity to New Romulus placate but is not there.
I essentially lose my tractor on the guy when he crits me with his turrets.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. I also lose my target pin too for good measure.
The rep proc always has benefit in every scenario. It's not just about being invisible for a second. It's about the benefit of being almost immune to tractors, etc.
The moron hits me with his turrets and he undoes my power that takes up a boff slot. lol. Yeah that's not beneficial at all.
Seriously ALL the rep bonuses should simply be deactivated in PvP. There is no need for any of them to exist.
It unblanaced the game... creates a time sink that really doesn't make Cryptic any more $ then if it didn't exist. We will spend $ on ships and consoles anyway.
The only point for any of them to exist is to break things.... the borg don't care. Leave them in game as a uber PvE kid bonus.
Game would be better off all round.
Then that will make the whole rep thing useless and no one will have reason to grind it.
When that will happen next will be to force people use special premade builds on ships for pvp and the whole "I worked to get mk XII purple over your Mk XI sheets" debate will start.If a person grinds his life to get some better thing than you have then that person should be allowed to use it.
the most simple way to fix all the rep stuffs is to make new grin..I mean reputation systems with passives that counter the broken ones ...its the only way to not TRIBBLE people who want to use their broken and annoying stuffs .Nukara grind system is a good opportunity but they use it for more oddities.
WHY ?
If we like PvP... why do we have to constantly do hours of hours of PVE content to compete ?
Really I would love an answer to this one.
It doesn't make Cryptic money... it doesn't entertain PvP people AT all... all it does is lead to PvP people simply going and playing something else. Which in fact dries up our community of any real PvP quality players and costs Cryptic money. There is no win that I see... what am I missing?
I mean, literally just say that out loud... It's completely ridiculous...
Yes, this creates a gap between those that have it and those that don't...
...pretty much like any MMO.
Most games try to do a little better balancing job between the options though.
first : people used time to get those passives, broken or not.Placate by far is the most annoying (i like escort dogfights and that thing makes dogfights annoying for both participants) but people worked and wasted their time to get it.If you remove it you will only spit on people's time....that is bad for your business.
second: you know it ,I know it ...everyone knows it ...there will be more grind systems and theres nothing you and me can do to stop it.Those are good opportunities to fix the other ones.
third: when you start blocking some stuffs in pvp its only a matter of time till you start blocking gear and ships or till people will want what they dont have to be blocked.The whole idea of blocking things is stupid.You dont need to block anything if you fix it ...also that will keep people from raging on the forums about taking their sheets away.
R.I.P
Funny thing is almost every mmo is trying to get AWAY from that dynamic in pvp... as they are realizing it does nothing at all for there game.
Rift is a prime example of a game that let pvp gear get way out of hand before trying to fix it... way to late. Of course its going F2P shortly.
More devs are trying to find away to go GW2 style then the opposite.
Long drawn out pvp gear grind do nothing for the game long term... accept kill it off. I mean if you want your game to have a predictable end date I guess its the way to go. Its only a matter of time before the gear grind is so long new players stop bothering... and the number of players leaving ends up higher then the number replacing them. Frankly I think we already passed the point where those 2 meet awhile back. I love that the boot camp has brought new people into the pvp game... lets get serious though have we brought in enough new blood to replace those leaving ? If we have how long can it continue before Cryptics gear creep pushes things back to the loosing players point ?
Your 3 points are valid and irrelevant all at once.
1) Seeing as you are saying we need to be doing 90% more PVE then PvP what are they loosing... I didn't say they can't placate the borg all they want and have 25% crit chance with extra tac consoles and 2x shield regen. I am saying all those bonuses don't belong in PvP.
2) Add all the grind you like to PvE... people that ENJOY pve will continue to do it. Those that PvP will be PvPing away regardless and Cryptic doesn't even need to really bother with content to keep them happy at all.
3) You are assuming that is a bad thing... which it isn't. I used to be very much a Balance the game for PvP and PVE balance will follow type guy. I have changed my mind on that. I was wrong. PvP and PvE should be completely different games. The more I play games from other Developers that do it properly (I'll say it GW2 most of us have played it and know that I'm right) the more I am sure its the way to go. s/tPvP in that game is in a much better state then the PvP here and the devs haven't had years to tweak it. They even have full PvE gear PvP in there open pvp zones.... The same would work here. Create a third ship doll for PvP... create mk xii-p gear that only fits the PvP doll. (like shuttle gear)... remove all sets all rep from Arena and Cap and hold PvP... done. The Cryptic devs could completely right STO PvP iin one patch.
I want to see how you remove stuffs from game after people grinded and wasted time to get them.Im sure people raging on the forums dont and never will affect your income.
I said how to fix it and at this point thats the only way to fix if you dont want to see people raging.
If you are saying that people in PvP dont try to get better and better gear/stuffs you are ...well ,BSing everyone.Dont try to make pvp the little innocent community.How many pvp?rs used embassy broken doffs? How many premades use TIF?How many spam SS3 with Seggis? you have to grind /buy those better stuffs ....I see no one refusing to grind/buy them so your oppinion is noted in the utopia pvp log.
there is no reason to grind = no reason to buy = no money for cryptic = you will pvp offline.
if you want to have perfect equality in pvp you first have to move everyone in the server room.even if you have all the stuffs equal (even the skill tree) you would still have the ping advantage.How will you block that? Will you turn STO in Call of duty where you que on servers where ping is below a certain value?
Again turning something off in a game type that almost no one does according to Cryptic is very unlikely to cause much of a stir. Seriously who is going to be upset the 8-10 people that are in the ques at any given time. There is more people in the 5th ESD zone talking about tribbles at any given point in the day. So if you say there are 30-50 PvP players that que up at all in a day... how many are honestly likely to have a problem with rep being turned off ? Even if its 50% (which I doubt... more pvp players HATE rep then like it) 15 people out of a game that has thousands playing in a day. Yep seems like trouble.
So you are saying because PvP people are likely to use any advantage they can get we should be happy that Cryptic adds ones that have long time gates attached ? Why ?
Again what is the point, remove the gear issue and let everyone LEARN how to better people using skill / twitch skills instead of the art of finding broken gear combos.
Your really going to go to ping as a reason balance can never exist. LMAO come on man.
Its a MMO... where aiming isn't an issue... so right there 90% of the issues of lag are removed. You can go dark to the server for 5s at a time and your ship will keep firing and your shields will keep regening ect. I'm not saying that would be idea... but really 20ms ping vs 150ms in STO won't make much difference to be honest. Yes I am saying if you want to have real true competitive PVP in STO... things need to be limited. As far as all the broken this doff or that doff... use em away all you want in Kerrat and any new Open PvP zones Cryptic adds. However once ALL of the creep stuff is removed from Organized Arena Style PvP... you can get a game where Cryptic could even run turnys... there wouldn't be any 50 page forum argument threads about what is going to be allowed this week ect. Right now there is so much junk that organizing PvP events is sort of a bad joke. (no offense to the folks that have pulled off fun events) It can be done its just 10x more work then it should be.
I'm sorry but asking for all the PvE goodies to stay in PvP. Imo its not a real PvPers attitude. I like new things coming into pvp now and then don't get me wrong. A system can Exist though where the Cryptic guys that like to throw out all the broken junk to make money can continue to do just that... and a PvP Dev can look at those items and decide if a MK XII - p version will be added to the Organized PvP pool or not. IT would add a buffer between balance and the $ toys Cryptic loves.
Make no mistake people will still buy the $ toys if they don't work in Arena PvP. They will use em in kerrat... and frankly the massive number of STO players that don't PvP makes up 95% of there sales on that junk anyway.
When Cryptic converts the system over to the -p system they could easily add Adjusted Stat -p versions of items people have earned in PvE as unlocks.
My point is there is a ton of very creative ways to create a system where balance isn't a joke... grind is still worth Something. (but not a NEEDED to play component)... and if done right... Cryptic could even host events with out all the drama associated with them for the last 3 years.
Gear was always an issue...well, gear was an issue in beta as well as from the start. I left seven months after launch when my six month sub ran out (actually left a few weeks before it did).
Lol, it's a trip reading some of my old posts there. I miss Carrion...meh.
I agree the gear grind there went wrong very early... ditto for The Old Republic. Its very painful to see so many devs make the exact same mistakes over and over.
You also hear the same stupid arguments when people that worked so hard for there advantages realize they may loose them. Right now its just players talking about it. Lets be honest Cryptic won't fix anything... better devs have not fixed there games until they lost enough money. The RP element in this game masks that nicely for Cryptic. No IP could be worse for us as PvPers as trek. No matter how badly Cryptic handles PvP in this game... there are enough people dropping way to much money on uniforms to mask any real impact we have on there bottom line.
We all come back week after week to there forums and plead with them to make PvP better... more content more balance more x less y ect ect... cause we love it so much. If this game was any other IP we would have all left 2.9 years ago.
I really really do hope that Cryptic realizes they need to rethink there PvP system... we all know this game could be one of the best MMOs in the industry with such seemingly small tweaks.
Anyway I'll see you all in game... enough of this. I'll see you in pvp on 2 of my 15 toons cause who really wants to do a month of pve each on them... and its about to become 3. Joy... wish I could talk more of my old STO friends to come back... but the thought of that much STO pve before we could honestly create a competitive high end unit again is just to much annoyance for most people to bare.
...leaves one to wonder just how they'd actually handle a PvP Rep system.
Then again, Geko's already talked about PvP being both PvP and PvE...so folks could grind their PvP Rep through doing PvE...hrmmm.
That is true... I know I said I would go play now instead. I can't help myself.
Rift TOR and others where PvP grinds for gear... and honestly its even worse. It was pretty much a built in Loosing mechanic. You had to pay your dues which was just silly. I mean I did ok even with low end gear at first in both of those games... cause no amount of gear can completely nullify skill. Still in both those games you could see almost every day fewer and fewer people doing PvP... cause it involved weeks of loosing or playing back up roles to be useful to grind the gear. Everyone that came to rift after the first wave of players all geared up had to endure a month at min of playing with a healing build or something and dying and loosing a ton until they could at least get the mid mark gear. Same thing happened in TOR, those of us that PvPed none stop for the first few weeks had gear that was so much better then the guys just starting out that it was almost un fun beating on them. The dedicated guys get board and leave... the new guys get frustrated and leave... end result is no ones around.
I think Gecko is a moron... still if they add a PvP rep (which would be a massive mistake) adding a pve element would be slightly less painful. The only PvP rep system I honestly see working... is one that simply allows you to slowly complete the existing PvE reps. Would allow people to complete the pve rep with out PvE and allow new players to play catchup with out having to play the frustrating pay your dues game.
As a PvE hero I WISH they would actually release more costume options, but its all ships, ships, ships! Most return for the least expense I'm sure. But you are both right, if Cryptic were to nerf in any way any of the rep or gear rewards their monetization system would immediately loose all credibility and no one would spend one more dime.
Honestly the only routes they could take are standardizing gear and ships for PvP or just go full out P2W and call it a day. This middle ground is basically PvP limbo.
I can see why players would think that but my own opinion is that he's a designer that has the added burden of figuring out ways of making stuff that will make people SPEND while keeping the game from crashing and appearing to be too P2W. Its an untenable position to be in, and invariably PvP as the least important thing in their eyes is the one to suffer. If they made a PvP rep you can almost bet that the innate powers would be some sort of PvP stat that adds to offence and defense in PvP.... just like they do in WoW. That way it'd be all but required to PvP.
They're calling it a Tuesday.
Your right Cryptic can make more money then any other IP/MMO out there right now with super low investment items. Ships are huge sellers for them I'm sure... but those uniform packs just keep selling. I have nothing against the STO RP element. Its not like the stuff they like uses up a ton of dev time. I am a bit shocked they don't turn out more of the cosmetic uniform type stuff... We laugh about it but ya it sells... and continues to sell. I'm sure things like the evening wear that has been around forever still sells well for instance. lol
Rep and gear honestly I don't see there being an issue with restricting it in Area/Cap PvP only. Rep that exists now was never sold as a PvP item... and frankly it was never sold at all... its all just time sink. The gear that I understand is sold with Dilithium and there for for some people did involve $... again was never sold as PvP gear. Perhaps that stays anyway. If they where to create a PvP Ship Doll... and have a Vendor that sold everyone = MK XII - P equip... there could be an unlock vendor that would have -p versions of all the rep gear that you have purchased to unlock the -p version. Those versions could be exact copies or have there stats edited to balance them if needed. If Cryptic did it right people could even be happy about it... if say there -p version took a 10% cut... but the standard PvE / Open PvP versions took a 10% boost... seeing as high end pvp balance was no longer a concern.
It would be a fine line to walk not annoying people that earned / dropped $ on some stuff... still sometimes you have to do what is right for the game... before doing whats right just doesn't matter as no ones around to care.
I agree... I think PvP rep systems are terrible for pvp in any game. I truly hope STO never ever has a pvp rep system... or a traditional pvp gear system.
My vote is for a GW2 style 2 tier PvP system... where you have a Tournament and Arena Style PvP system that is the same system but with stripped down gear. As well as a open wild west system where any gear you earn in game is fair game. It works in GW2... wvw PvP is fun, and gear can make a difference... but you can get a team together and get into a tournament situation where it all comes down to skill and twitch, and one MISTAKE can cost you a match... or one smart move can win you one. (there are still a ton of gear choices in those matches as well... its not like its a shooter or something)
Perhaps we don't need to change current arena and cap and holds at all in STO pvp... perhaps they just need to add a "Tournament Mode" que... where they do use a PvP ship doll and strip all the junk out.... Perhaps those ques wouldn't pop that often... but it would be fantastic for challange mode games... and I can see Cryptic themselves being able to run weekend tournaments with ease as they would remove the weeks of arguing rules and setups prior to any one starting one.
They've actually explained this at length before. As it turns out making uniforms is very resource heavy as far as artist time is concerned, while making ships is clearly not. They reuse a LOT of textures with ships, not so with uniforms. Not to mention ships generally have a larger target market while uniforms seem to be more niche? Basically they could make money off uniforms and costumes, but they get a much better return on resource investment from ships.
From their point of view the only way costumes could be worth doing is if they were all like the movie space suit, the seven dollar character specific one that you couldn't even reclaim. Its why most new costume options are simply put in the Lobi store instead of trying to get people to get it off the c-store. Store within a store, lobi from zen, fleet ships that cost after a costly base grind, wheels within wheels, Cryptic is like a babushka doll of monetization!
If you've having problems with getting a random Placate on you every 12 seconds, then you need to learn how to multitask and then mitigate that tiny, nearly insignificant 2 second blur. Your TB gets dislodged, big deal. Adapt.
Rep is easy to fix, well maybe not easy to implement but the solution is obvious, just make a PVP rep system and ignore all the others while in PVP.
The items are not so easy. Cryptic makes money selling ships, if ships are nerfed in PVP, some of the wallet heroes will yell very loudly. Betrayal. No more sales.