I've done it on multiple characters...multiple times.
You don't have to destroy any ship other than the Command Ship. You destroy that...the others fall apart and go away. The Command Ship is on the left side. Almost every time that wave has spawned, I've been on the right side. There's no point in fighting your way over to it. Cloak and come from that side.
Are folks spamming FAW/TS and other AoE attacks - grabbing all sorts of aggro and doing damage to ship they don't need to kill?
It's one ship. Come around to that side. Kite it off from the rest. Kill it.
No, I do not even have FAW in the build on Tribble.
I have tried kiting the command ship, but once I start shooting the command ship, the support ships come racing and starts tearing my DD a new one. Happens every time, no matter how far away I get the command ship from the support ships...
And the command ship does not spawn where you say it does, it spawns in with support ships around it. Atleast it does that for me.
As I said before, there is something odd with this mission, and how aggro works. Once I shoot at the command ship, the pain train is comming straight for me in the form of the support ships...
I've done it on multiple characters...multiple times.
You don't have to destroy any ship other than the Command Ship. You destroy that...the others fall apart and go away. The Command Ship is on the left side. Almost every time that wave has spawned, I've been on the right side. There's no point in fighting your way over to it. Cloak and come from that side.
Are folks spamming FAW/TS and other AoE attacks - grabbing all sorts of aggro and doing damage to ship they don't need to kill?
It's one ship. Come around to that side. Kite it off from the rest. Kill it.
My command ship was squarly in the middle of my wave
My command ship was squarly in the middle of my wave
Would definitely make it more difficult than what I've experienced...nullifying that particular strategy.
edit: But at the same time, it's never been the most difficulty thing...I just don't get it.
I'm wondering if some folks are experiencing bugged versions of it or something. Makes me think about a Fleet Defense when I was on my KDF in a PUG once...just the 5man, and there we were - bam, double and triple spawns. We got slaughtered by all the phaser procs, PDS spam, MVAE's out the wahzoo...it was a blast, imho. It was a fun fight to lose. Not everybody shared that opinion - two folks whined non-stop during it. I thought about how much fun it could have been with folks with a clue.
If your goal is to make players log off and give up then your did your job...it was alot of fun till this mission....U need to tone it down a notch.
Even I who plays everyday may just wait till it is fixed or I'll move on to something else.
Way to take the fun out of it...then story was flowing at a great pace and then u did this...not good...not good at all.
And for those who are ripping on other players for commenting on this I just have one thing to say......BITE ME!
If your goal is to make players log off and give up then your did your job...it was alot of fun till this mission....U need to tone it down a notch.
Even I who plays everyday may just wait till it is fixed or I'll move on to something else.
Way to take the fun out of it...then story was flowing at a great pace and then u did this...not good...not good at all.
And for those who are ripping on other players for commenting on this I just have one thing to say......BITE ME!
I agree this mission needs to be toned down even using my hit and run tactic with a DPS build it took me better part of an hour maybe longer to finish it.
The experiance was not a fun one after that mission i took a day off and played on the holodeck so i could have some fun.
And for those who are ripping on other players for commenting on this I just have one thing to say......BITE ME!
Rather than suggesting that they bite you or pleading for Cryptic to make it so you can complete the mission with your pinkytoe...isn't there some middle ground that could be reached?
Couldn't folks discuss skill/ship builds that they are using - both those having problems and those not having problems?
Couldn't folks discuss strategies that have worked and have not worked during this particular mission?
"Hey guys, I'm having some trouble completing Mission X. This is what I'm flying, my BOFFs, my skill build, and all that good stuff. This is what I've tried to do, and well - it's just not working. For those that have completed the mission without the trouble that I'm having, do you have any suggestions?"
Striking at the Command Ship was pretty much my initial objective when I tried doing this with my T'varo retrofit... which does happen to have a fair punch. But I couldn't pull an appreciable dent in it by the time most of my allies were crippled and that most of the enemies could turn on me and swat me out of the sky like a fly.
It was pretty much in the middle of this space melee, and it wasn't like I hadn't struggled before expiring: I had Science Team III, Hazard Emitters II, Transfer Shield Strength II and Engineering Team I to help me stay in the fight as I tried disengaging, cloaking, and making decloaking attack run on the Command Ship. Tried warp shadows and quantum absorbtion to last longer. Also, the T'varo is actually a tough small little ship - quite superior to my Aquarius Destroyer - it's not like someone looks at it and it dies (especially not with the neutronium consoles I packed).
*twitch* This thread wouldn't even be an issue if it was a case of a player not trying hard enough. I mean, my Kestrel runabout got destroyed a couple of times in the Rhi shuttle mission when I overextended without sufficient allied fighter cover. That was okay.
Would definitely make it more difficult than what I've experienced...nullifying that particular strategy.
edit: But at the same time, it's never been the most difficulty thing...I just don't get it.
I'm wondering if some folks are experiencing bugged versions of it or something. Makes me think about a Fleet Defense when I was on my KDF in a PUG once...just the 5man, and there we were - bam, double and triple spawns. We got slaughtered by all the phaser procs, PDS spam, MVAE's out the wahzoo...it was a blast, imho. It was a fun fight to lose. Not everybody shared that opinion - two folks whined non-stop during it. I thought about how much fun it could have been with folks with a clue.
Its possible that people are experiencing different size waves.
My third wave was quite large, 3 dreads, sevral battle ships, which all throw pets, and a mass or escorts, fighters, and those cruiser things they have.
And it didn't help, as I said, that they all coned the support npc fleet right off the start, which essentially killed all my help. I have to go in a start wittling down numbers through repeated deaths to finally beat it.
Mix of random mission/loot gear...nothing special in the least, no replay to update gear. Didn't even have the Tac consoles to match the weapons - I kept getting Phaser/Disruptor consoles as drops while having Plasma/Tetryon weapons.
At that point, the only differences between their builds would have been the Tac having some Attack Pattern vs. the Sci having some Particle Gens...and one having Energy Weapons and the other Projectile Weapons. All of my toons tend to have the same base 234k skill in space - with 66k eventually distinguishing them in space at 50.
Each had a common SDO(BFI) DOFF...and the Torp'deridex was using Law. Had no other DOFFs worth slotting or applicable to slotting.
Watched my location during each of the waves, sticking to the edges - moving my way around to the Command ship...picking off any of the smaller ships, watching my aggro - letting the other ships grab aggro and die - letting the Elachi sit on the repairing vessels. Didn't try to go in guns blazing...and that was pretty much it. It wasn't anything special. It wasn't the most difficult mission involving the Elachi.
Its possible that people are experiencing different size waves.
My third wave was quite large, 3 dreads, sevral battle ships, which all throw pets, and a mass or escorts, fighters, and those cruiser things they have.
And it didn't help, as I said, that they all coned the support npc fleet right off the start, which essentially killed all my help. I have to go in a start wittling down numbers through repeated deaths to finally beat it.
I think this might be what's happening, and if this is the case, some one over at Cryptic got his/her PC hit with VM III when this mission was made.
Maybe have the allied support ships come in from various angels, or disable the "I win" attack cone the Elachi are using for the 3rd wave, so that the allied suport ships can actually, you know, support the player, instead of overtaxing their engineering departments non-stop :P
Or maybe this was intended to be a co-op mission, but was turned into a sp mission, wich would explain what we are seeing with some getting 3 command ships :eek:, and so on...
Perhaps the issue is not in the 3rd wave, but in how the first two waves are fought. Where are folks on the map - where are the allies on the map - when are folks falling back - right away/fighting some more and then moving - where are they moving...
...so it's not the 3rd wave that's causing them issues, but what they're doing leading up to the 3rd wave?
I'm fairly positive that the frigates and escort might renew themselves/spawn more after a lapse of time when their numbers are diminished. I'm pretty sure I had to kill more than 3 frigates and 3 escorts.
The Monbosh didn't seem to respawn, though. It's when I had thinned the smaller ships some that it allowed me the time to destroy one. Then another on the following respawn. That's when the battle started to turn around for me.
I'm fairly convinced by now that the NPC-given tactic of focusing fire on the Command Ship is EXACTLY what you're not supposed to do. It might be the victory condition, but pouring everything on it seems to - more often than not - condemn players to a long tedious respawning battle.
I'm fairly convinced by now that the NPC-given tactic of focusing fire on the Command Ship is EXACTLY what you're not supposed to do. It might be the victory condition, but pouring everything on it seems to - more often than not - condemn players to a long tedious respawning battle.
My last trip to this mission, during the third wave I killed two ships: the Command and a Frigate. The Frigate died in warp poo... the only other ships firing on me were two more Frigates and a Monbosh.
never bothered leveling up that high, again, but it sounds like theres an actually challenging mission to look forward too. unless all this wineing about it gets it nerfed into nothing. seriously, the average pve'er uses their ship to about 10% of its potential, and the devs balance the pve based on those people. thats why space pve is so frigging bad.
There's a difference between challenging and impossible - because of the way the enemy spawns in and kills of your NPC allies almost immediately you're left to take on four dreads and associated escorts by yourself and can't even draw them off one by one because they're all bunched up.
It doesn't matter how well you build your ship at that level, it's an impossible challenge.
@Virusdancer:
Good for you. My four experiences have been wildly different.
Look, I don't know what more to say about this. I tested it. I found a problem and I aired it, and there are threads about it from other people. I like space battles and I don't expect nor want to have victory handed to me on a silver platter. I think, having played the game since launch, that I'm fairly competent with my ship, understand my limitations and how to cope with a certain degree of adversity.
I don't know what else to say to convey that this needs to be fixed somehow. Nor do I want to keep repeating the same arguments. I'm not interested in proving other players wrong either - I'm actually happy you seem to manage well; I just wish I had experienced the same and my circumstances/perception don't support that.
I think, when you're a developer for a Star Trek game that you're not just supporting things from a gameplay perspective, but that the satisfaction to draw out of your work is from the entertainment you provide, and the memories you allow people to have. It's my sincere belief that for the third wave of this mission, tweaks could be done to help players build more memorable memories of this capstone mission.
It doesn't matter how well you build your ship at that level, it's an impossible challenge.
If it is impossible, then why have so many people completed it without issue? Why have people completed it with multiple toons without issue?
Obviously it is not impossible.
However, some people are reporting that the 3rd wave results in all the allies being annihilated. I have yet to experience that. So I'm wondering if it is something that is being done in the 2nd wave leading up to the 3rd wave which is creating a different fight for that 3rd wave for some folks.
I'm going to go through and rerun the mission again with two guys at a higher level (which should make it even more difficult)...and I'm going to try to pay more attention to what's going on. It just...it just wasn't a difficult mission, so I didn't really have to pay attention to things. But I'll go through it again...heck, both guys - it's what the server is for - testing.
When I first experienced the mission, my character was already level 50, and I was using a T'varo Retrofit. The two initial waves were pretty well balanced, and generally enjoyable to go through. The final wave was, in contast, such a huge ramping up in difficulty that it became a process of dying and slowly thin out enemy numbers until I managed to compete.
also lvl 50 closed beta tester, and have the legacy pack but all refits/retrofits are locked in c-store with buy button greyed out so how are you flying the T'varo retrofit?
But how else can one using beams inflate their DPS parses without AoE spam?
Now be fair, usually you will sit in a D'deridex during that mission, a ship that has a single tactical lieutenant. And for normal combat against single ships or small groups of Tal Shiar or Elachi those skills are completely viable. It's not as if you had much choice.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
If it is impossible, then why have so many people completed it without issue? Why have people completed it with multiple toons without issue?
Obviously it is not impossible.
However, some people are reporting that the 3rd wave results in all the allies being annihilated. I have yet to experience that. So I'm wondering if it is something that is being done in the 2nd wave leading up to the 3rd wave which is creating a different fight for that 3rd wave for some folks.
I'm going to go through and rerun the mission again with two guys at a higher level (which should make it even more difficult)...and I'm going to try to pay more attention to what's going on. It just...it just wasn't a difficult mission, so I didn't really have to pay attention to things. But I'll go through it again...heck, both guys - it's what the server is for - testing.
It could be something during wave 2, but I'll be damned if I know what causes the allied support ships to get annihilated in seconds.
If we are supposed to do something or the other, this is not communicated in a clear and obvious way to the player.
I know you are supposed to fall back, wich I did when I got the the message, but I can't for the life of me remember anything else being said.
But there is no doubt that the final wave could need some tuning, since the dreadnoughts are very though to fight.
I'm not saying make it easy, but as it stands now, it's either something being left unsaid in the mission, or there are too many enemy ships compared to the allied ships that warps in...
Hope we can get an answer, otherwise Cryptic will have a great deal of explaining to do...
If it is impossible, then why have so many people completed it without issue? Why have people completed it with multiple toons without issue?
Obviously it is not impossible.
However, some people are reporting that the 3rd wave results in all the allies being annihilated. I have yet to experience that. So I'm wondering if it is something that is being done in the 2nd wave leading up to the 3rd wave which is creating a different fight for that 3rd wave for some folks.
I'm going to go through and rerun the mission again with two guys at a higher level (which should make it even more difficult)...and I'm going to try to pay more attention to what's going on. It just...it just wasn't a difficult mission, so I didn't really have to pay attention to things. But I'll go through it again...heck, both guys - it's what the server is for - testing.
This is an all over the place rant. You have been warned.
The mission will finish if you go off to a corner and wait. The NPC allied will eventully kill the command ship. Every time I've played the mission, I've just picked off Frigates and Escorts I could peel off from the squadrons. If I got bracketed with Cone o' Doom. I EM'ed and Cloaked to get out of the way and shed aggro.
I can say that I know the mindset of the mission designer, but I don't think that is how this mission is intended to be played: avoid the fight and let the NPC Allies do all the work. If the designer intended the PC to be heroic and lead the fight against the command ships, I suggest that you relearn the power and AI behaviors of the Elachi, and TRY AGAIN.
I can't for the life of my figure out why you INCREASED the difficulty of that last wave? Was it because the NPC allies where doing all of the working of killing the command ship? Well read my previous paragraphs as to why. It may prove insightful. Yes I'm being petty and sniping at the designer. I just don't feel very respectful right now. The mission makes my very frustated and angry. It's just stupid compared to the rest of the excellent Romulan content.
A suggesttion to make it easy for the play and yet epic. NPC two or fleets fighting it at long distance from the player's play area like in "Operation Gamma". Wall the areas off from the player if you need to. Keep the waves smaller that the player has to fight. Keep the waved small enough to allow the player to heroically lead the fight ultimately against the Command Ship. The Elachi are too powerful to use on large groups and you expect the player and non-plot armor allies to survive.
Make the waves for the player smaller. Left the Player heroically lead the assault on the command ships
Mix of random mission/loot gear...nothing special in the least, no replay to update gear. Didn't even have the Tac consoles to match the weapons - I kept getting Phaser/Disruptor consoles as drops while having Plasma/Tetryon weapons.
At that point, the only differences between their builds would have been the Tac having some Attack Pattern vs. the Sci having some Particle Gens...and one having Energy Weapons and the other Projectile Weapons. All of my toons tend to have the same base 234k skill in space - with 66k eventually distinguishing them in space at 50.
Each had a common SDO(BFI) DOFF...and the Torp'deridex was using Law. Had no other DOFFs worth slotting or applicable to slotting.
Watched my location during each of the waves, sticking to the edges - moving my way around to the Command ship...picking off any of the smaller ships, watching my aggro - letting the other ships grab aggro and die - letting the Elachi sit on the repairing vessels. Didn't try to go in guns blazing...and that was pretty much it. It wasn't anything special. It wasn't the most difficult mission involving the Elachi.
Fore: 2x Beam arrays(I think one was a Caustic Plasma), 2x Torps
Aft: 2x beam arrays, Hargh Torp
The gear wasn't anything particularly good, but I did manage to find 2 consoles that boosted beam arrays in general.
My combat strategy was to grab aggro and that way my NPC allies live longer. It worked for me. Most of the NPCs were still alive by the time Wave 3 got there. I was able to keep my shield power above 100 most of the time. I massacred whatever got into firing range and eventually made my way to the command ship.
It's fun watching Elachi Subspace Jump into Warp Plasma.
I think this might be what's happening, and if this is the case, some one over at Cryptic got his/her PC hit with VM III when this mission was made.
Maybe have the allied support ships come in from various angels, or disable the "I win" attack cone the Elachi are using for the 3rd wave, so that the allied suport ships can actually, you know, support the player, instead of overtaxing their engineering departments non-stop :P
Or maybe this was intended to be a co-op mission, but was turned into a sp mission, wich would explain what we are seeing with some getting 3 command ships :eek:, and so on...
well to be exact only one was a command ship, it was just flanked by two elachi dreads when it came in, so I had a total of three dreadnoughts. It was similar to fighting the DS9, boldly they rode fight, only with all the waves there at the start, and all in one spot.
The cone might have been a fluke for me, but with everyone of them doing it at once it was brutal. and they are very good about space jumping then activating it. I had times were they would do that, id get out of one, only to have another pop behind me and start it, manage to ride evasive out of that one, and have two more pop in and do it and get whacked. wasn't fatal, but watching 30% of the D'd's hull go bye bye in one hit was not fun.
But as ive said I think most of the overwhelmingness of this is more to do with numbers of ships, the mix, and how the elachi spider tank, and their ship tiers synergize. and while I hate the ground combat, way too much damn random movement, the ships and powers them selves seem fine. that they all Space jump was a surprise to me, that I had to adapt too, eh.
Im sure some people have had a breeze with this, and others have been rolled by it. But ultimately you have to look at this from a mid ground point of view, especially if you have newer players. tweaking the groups numbers should accomplish that, its fine if they kill off the npc fleet, but when they can do it almost instantly at the start of the fight, it easy for a player to get swamped. taking out one of the dreads, and cutting back on the escorts just a touch might do.
But as ive said I think most of the overwhelmingness of this is more to do with numbers of ships, the mix, and how the elachi spider tank, and their ship tiers synergize. and while I hate the ground combat, way too much damn random movement, the ships and powers them selves seem fine. that they all Space jump was a surprise to me, that I had to adapt too, eh.
Im sure some people have had a breeze with this, and others have been rolled by it. But ultimately you have to look at this from a mid ground point of view, especially if you have newer players. tweaking the groups numbers should accomplish that, its fine if they kill off the npc fleet, but when they can do it almost instantly at the start of the fight, it easy for a player to get swamped. taking out one of the dreads, and cutting back on the escorts just a touch might do.
I do have to somewhat agree here. I went on some patrols in Exploration clusters after this and the fights there bored me.... The same strat that worked in this fight was OP in cluster exploration missions.
[Combat (Self)] Monbosh Battleship's Warp Core Breach dealt 2553 (11705) shield damage to you.
[Combat (Self)] Monbosh Battleship deals 26074 (51870) Kinetic Damage to you with Warp Core Breach.
Pesky bugger jumped and blew up behind me, lol.
Okay anyway, a few things I suppose.
Dread Command Dread
But the Command is forward of the two Dreads and can be pulled off to the left. It will follow you even when you're cloaked - while the others will not. As your fighting the Command, yes - Monbosh, pair of S'golth, and three Quaalash will eventually join. The Command will launch shuttles. If you damage the Monbosh without killing it, it will separate. The Monbosh Support will toss heals to the Command...HE and ExS.
The longer it takes you to kill the Command, the more likely that the other groups will catch up to you. This could lead to you getting overwhelmed. You can cloak, lose aggro, and move to another group, or decloak on the edge of the group to kite them back away from the Command.
As somebody pointed out as well, you could just cloak and watch the fight. Eventually the Ally NPCs will destroy the Command for you.
You can't sit in the cones. But with the Singularity Jump, Evasive Maneuvers, Engine Batteries, or even just adjusting your power settings - they're easy to avoid.
You have to redistribute your shields. If you're just relying on TT to do that for you, you're going to leave gaps and you're also not going to have the TT to clear the Boarding Parties if you can't shoot them down. With the VMs, you're either using ET, have some points in Subsystem Repair to diminish the duration, you're hitting an EPtX or batteries to bring the system back online, or you're moving out there.
It's all just a bunch of basics. Things that folks should have been picking up along the way to this point from fighting other things.
Movement. Target selection. Defensive abilities. Offensive abilities. It's not requiring anything special. Are there more enemies? Sure. Spread them out. Tackle them like any other mission where they're artificially spread out for you. Are the Command/Dreadnoughts tougher than other ships? Sure. Bang at them harder, it might take longer.
If it's a case of expecting to sit there and have them fall over dead at your awesomeness (Don't they know who you are?)...well, no - that's not going to work. But if you've gotten this far - you've picked up all the skills you need to handle the situation. Just use them.
I was using a scrap fit ship and I had little trouble, before moaning about them try waiting for the AI ships to repair then group for a "gang" on the ships.
Not like your loose all your assets when you die. :rolleyes:
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
is this a lesson on how to do your mission or are you able to do it yourself without the help as you are supposed to??? since the latter is impossible it just shows that you need to get help from others to try beat the damn thing which only proves the point that you have to grind em down before they kill you which is the whole point of what the op is going on about. again if there was a balance adjustment you wouldnt need to jump through 6 different hoops just to beat it and every other mission you do on your own is not this much trouble, so why start now?
call the above what you will i dont care, but it should not be like that at all.
heck the easier and slower way out is to cloak or die and wait for the allied god mode ships to deal with the trouble and that can take upto 30 minutes or longer before you can come out. but why should you have to do that? you are supposed to be destroying the fleet.
that should not be happening at all if you are completely reliant on the god mode allies to do your job for you which only proves someone messed up with the map design, quite badly. i am amazed there is no official line if this is the way it shall be on launch and if it is like this officially, then i will give up and watch the nerd rage hit general within a few days...
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
[Combat (Self)] Monbosh Battleship's Warp Core Breach dealt 2553 (11705) shield damage to you.
[Combat (Self)] Monbosh Battleship deals 26074 (51870) Kinetic Damage to you with Warp Core Breach.
Pesky bugger jumped and blew up behind me, lol.
Okay anyway, a few things I suppose.
Dread Command Dread
But the Command is forward of the two Dreads and can be pulled off to the left. It will follow you even when you're cloaked - while the others will not. As your fighting the Command, yes - Monbosh, pair of S'golth, and three Quaalash will eventually join. The Command will launch shuttles. If you damage the Monbosh without killing it, it will separate. The Monbosh Support will toss heals to the Command...HE and ExS.
The longer it takes you to kill the Command, the more likely that the other groups will catch up to you. This could lead to you getting overwhelmed. You can cloak, lose aggro, and move to another group, or decloak on the edge of the group to kite them back away from the Command.
As somebody pointed out as well, you could just cloak and watch the fight. Eventually the Ally NPCs will destroy the Command for you.
You can't sit in the cones. But with the Singularity Jump, Evasive Maneuvers, Engine Batteries, or even just adjusting your power settings - they're easy to avoid.
You have to redistribute your shields. If you're just relying on TT to do that for you, you're going to leave gaps and you're also not going to have the TT to clear the Boarding Parties if you can't shoot them down. With the VMs, you're either using ET, have some points in Subsystem Repair to diminish the duration, you're hitting an EPtX or batteries to bring the system back online, or you're moving out there.
It's all just a bunch of basics. Things that folks should have been picking up along the way to this point from fighting other things.
Movement. Target selection. Defensive abilities. Offensive abilities. It's not requiring anything special. Are there more enemies? Sure. Spread them out. Tackle them like any other mission where they're artificially spread out for you. Are the Command/Dreadnoughts tougher than other ships? Sure. Bang at them harder, it might take longer.
If it's a case of expecting to sit there and have them fall over dead at your awesomeness (Don't they know who you are?)...well, no - that's not going to work. But if you've gotten this far - you've picked up all the skills you need to handle the situation. Just use them.
I was using a scrap fit ship and I had little trouble, before moaning about them try waiting for the AI ships to repair then group for a "gang" on the ships.
Not like your loose all your assets when you die. :rolleyes:
Problem is, the allied ships is stuck in an eternal repair loop, wich means no help from them.
I have tried this mission numerous times, but the same thing allways happens to the allied ships, eternal repair loop.
Kiting does not work, as soon as I attack the command ship, the other ships comes racing to it's aid, so that method does not work.
I have been playing since closed beta of STO, so I have a good grasp of tactics.
Those of you who find it easy, what level did you do it at?? Lvl 50?? Above the intended level??
If so, it should be a bit easier, since you get better ships and equipment...
If not, then I have no clue as to how some finds it to be a cake walk, and others are being ground into tiny little pieces...
Heh, that Torp'deridex was from the discussions about the turn rate. I wanted to see what it would be like with no port/starboard weapon capability. It was a little tedious, lol.
I have been playing since closed beta of STO, so I have a good grasp of tactics.
Those of you who find it easy, what level did you do it at?? Lvl 50?? Above the intended level??
Between 29-32 or so is when you usually hit it first.
Then usually hit it again at 40.
Then hit it again at 50.
One of those wanting the Singularity Core Mk to match even though the stats don't change. Some of us are quirky that way, lol.
So I've probably done it 12-14 times now, including what I did for that post.
Done it in the following ships: Mogai, D'deridex, Ha'nom, and Ha'feh.
Done it with the following careers: Tac, Eng, and Sci.
Comments
No, I do not even have FAW in the build on Tribble.
I have tried kiting the command ship, but once I start shooting the command ship, the support ships come racing and starts tearing my DD a new one. Happens every time, no matter how far away I get the command ship from the support ships...
And the command ship does not spawn where you say it does, it spawns in with support ships around it. Atleast it does that for me.
As I said before, there is something odd with this mission, and how aggro works. Once I shoot at the command ship, the pain train is comming straight for me in the form of the support ships...
but alot of those players are using beams AoEs
and flying a DD ...never a good idea for that mission
heres a way of doing things
1) Mogai go all cannons yes a DPS build
2) Use your battle cloak target one hit it as hard a syou can then make a run for it cloak if you damaged let yourself heal up then repeat.
3) Dont be a hero use your battle cloak fly your ship like a romulan not a klink or fed rush in do as mich damage as possible then rush out and cloak.
4) save the command ship for last try to bait his supporting ships away and pick them off if you can if not do quick hit and run attacks.
it may take a while but that tactic worked well for me
My command ship was squarly in the middle of my wave
Would definitely make it more difficult than what I've experienced...nullifying that particular strategy.
edit: But at the same time, it's never been the most difficulty thing...I just don't get it.
I'm wondering if some folks are experiencing bugged versions of it or something. Makes me think about a Fleet Defense when I was on my KDF in a PUG once...just the 5man, and there we were - bam, double and triple spawns. We got slaughtered by all the phaser procs, PDS spam, MVAE's out the wahzoo...it was a blast, imho. It was a fun fight to lose. Not everybody shared that opinion - two folks whined non-stop during it. I thought about how much fun it could have been with folks with a clue.
Even I who plays everyday may just wait till it is fixed or I'll move on to something else.
Way to take the fun out of it...then story was flowing at a great pace and then u did this...not good...not good at all.
And for those who are ripping on other players for commenting on this I just have one thing to say......BITE ME!
I agree this mission needs to be toned down even using my hit and run tactic with a DPS build it took me better part of an hour maybe longer to finish it.
The experiance was not a fun one after that mission i took a day off and played on the holodeck so i could have some fun.
thats just how annoying it got
Rather than suggesting that they bite you or pleading for Cryptic to make it so you can complete the mission with your pinkytoe...isn't there some middle ground that could be reached?
Couldn't folks discuss skill/ship builds that they are using - both those having problems and those not having problems?
Couldn't folks discuss strategies that have worked and have not worked during this particular mission?
"Hey guys, I'm having some trouble completing Mission X. This is what I'm flying, my BOFFs, my skill build, and all that good stuff. This is what I've tried to do, and well - it's just not working. For those that have completed the mission without the trouble that I'm having, do you have any suggestions?"
...versus...
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"
Just saying...
It was pretty much in the middle of this space melee, and it wasn't like I hadn't struggled before expiring: I had Science Team III, Hazard Emitters II, Transfer Shield Strength II and Engineering Team I to help me stay in the fight as I tried disengaging, cloaking, and making decloaking attack run on the Command Ship. Tried warp shadows and quantum absorbtion to last longer. Also, the T'varo is actually a tough small little ship - quite superior to my Aquarius Destroyer - it's not like someone looks at it and it dies (especially not with the neutronium consoles I packed).
*twitch* This thread wouldn't even be an issue if it was a case of a player not trying hard enough. I mean, my Kestrel runabout got destroyed a couple of times in the Rhi shuttle mission when I overextended without sufficient allied fighter cover. That was okay.
This is much worse.
Its possible that people are experiencing different size waves.
My third wave was quite large, 3 dreads, sevral battle ships, which all throw pets, and a mass or escorts, fighters, and those cruiser things they have.
And it didn't help, as I said, that they all coned the support npc fleet right off the start, which essentially killed all my help. I have to go in a start wittling down numbers through repeated deaths to finally beat it.
Sci in a D'd...
TT1, THY2
EPtS1, AtD1, AtS2, EWP2
EPtS1, RSP1
HE1, TSS2
Fore: 4x Torps (Bio and er...3x other)
Aft: 2x Torps (no idea) and 1x Mines (Quants, I believe they were)
Mix of random mission/loot gear...nothing special in the least, no replay to update gear. I did have two crappy Warhead Tac consoles.
Tac in a D'd...
TT1, CRF1
EPtS1, AtS1, DEM2, EWP2
EPtS1, RSP1
HE1, TSS2
Fore: DBB, 2x DHC, DC
Aft: 3x Turrets
Mix of random mission/loot gear...nothing special in the least, no replay to update gear. Didn't even have the Tac consoles to match the weapons - I kept getting Phaser/Disruptor consoles as drops while having Plasma/Tetryon weapons.
At that point, the only differences between their builds would have been the Tac having some Attack Pattern vs. the Sci having some Particle Gens...and one having Energy Weapons and the other Projectile Weapons. All of my toons tend to have the same base 234k skill in space - with 66k eventually distinguishing them in space at 50.
Each had a common SDO(BFI) DOFF...and the Torp'deridex was using Law. Had no other DOFFs worth slotting or applicable to slotting.
Watched my location during each of the waves, sticking to the edges - moving my way around to the Command ship...picking off any of the smaller ships, watching my aggro - letting the other ships grab aggro and die - letting the Elachi sit on the repairing vessels. Didn't try to go in guns blazing...and that was pretty much it. It wasn't anything special. It wasn't the most difficult mission involving the Elachi.
I think this might be what's happening, and if this is the case, some one over at Cryptic got his/her PC hit with VM III when this mission was made.
Maybe have the allied support ships come in from various angels, or disable the "I win" attack cone the Elachi are using for the 3rd wave, so that the allied suport ships can actually, you know, support the player, instead of overtaxing their engineering departments non-stop :P
Or maybe this was intended to be a co-op mission, but was turned into a sp mission, wich would explain what we are seeing with some getting 3 command ships :eek:, and so on...
Everybody should be getting the Command Ship and two Dreadnoughts. There should be three of those ships. Basically, three groups of ships.
Command Ship/Dreadnought
Monbosh Battleships
S'golth Escorts
Qualash Frigates
Perhaps the issue is not in the 3rd wave, but in how the first two waves are fought. Where are folks on the map - where are the allies on the map - when are folks falling back - right away/fighting some more and then moving - where are they moving...
...so it's not the 3rd wave that's causing them issues, but what they're doing leading up to the 3rd wave?
The Monbosh didn't seem to respawn, though. It's when I had thinned the smaller ships some that it allowed me the time to destroy one. Then another on the following respawn. That's when the battle started to turn around for me.
I'm fairly convinced by now that the NPC-given tactic of focusing fire on the Command Ship is EXACTLY what you're not supposed to do. It might be the victory condition, but pouring everything on it seems to - more often than not - condemn players to a long tedious respawning battle.
My last trip to this mission, during the third wave I killed two ships: the Command and a Frigate. The Frigate died in warp poo... the only other ships firing on me were two more Frigates and a Monbosh.
There's a difference between challenging and impossible - because of the way the enemy spawns in and kills of your NPC allies almost immediately you're left to take on four dreads and associated escorts by yourself and can't even draw them off one by one because they're all bunched up.
It doesn't matter how well you build your ship at that level, it's an impossible challenge.
Good for you. My four experiences have been wildly different.
Look, I don't know what more to say about this. I tested it. I found a problem and I aired it, and there are threads about it from other people. I like space battles and I don't expect nor want to have victory handed to me on a silver platter. I think, having played the game since launch, that I'm fairly competent with my ship, understand my limitations and how to cope with a certain degree of adversity.
I don't know what else to say to convey that this needs to be fixed somehow. Nor do I want to keep repeating the same arguments. I'm not interested in proving other players wrong either - I'm actually happy you seem to manage well; I just wish I had experienced the same and my circumstances/perception don't support that.
I think, when you're a developer for a Star Trek game that you're not just supporting things from a gameplay perspective, but that the satisfaction to draw out of your work is from the entertainment you provide, and the memories you allow people to have. It's my sincere belief that for the third wave of this mission, tweaks could be done to help players build more memorable memories of this capstone mission.
That's about all I can say. That's all I can do.
If it is impossible, then why have so many people completed it without issue? Why have people completed it with multiple toons without issue?
Obviously it is not impossible.
However, some people are reporting that the 3rd wave results in all the allies being annihilated. I have yet to experience that. So I'm wondering if it is something that is being done in the 2nd wave leading up to the 3rd wave which is creating a different fight for that 3rd wave for some folks.
I'm going to go through and rerun the mission again with two guys at a higher level (which should make it even more difficult)...and I'm going to try to pay more attention to what's going on. It just...it just wasn't a difficult mission, so I didn't really have to pay attention to things. But I'll go through it again...heck, both guys - it's what the server is for - testing.
also lvl 50 closed beta tester, and have the legacy pack but all refits/retrofits are locked in c-store with buy button greyed out so how are you flying the T'varo retrofit?
Now be fair, usually you will sit in a D'deridex during that mission, a ship that has a single tactical lieutenant. And for normal combat against single ships or small groups of Tal Shiar or Elachi those skills are completely viable. It's not as if you had much choice.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
It could be something during wave 2, but I'll be damned if I know what causes the allied support ships to get annihilated in seconds.
If we are supposed to do something or the other, this is not communicated in a clear and obvious way to the player.
I know you are supposed to fall back, wich I did when I got the the message, but I can't for the life of me remember anything else being said.
But there is no doubt that the final wave could need some tuning, since the dreadnoughts are very though to fight.
I'm not saying make it easy, but as it stands now, it's either something being left unsaid in the mission, or there are too many enemy ships compared to the allied ships that warps in...
Hope we can get an answer, otherwise Cryptic will have a great deal of explaining to do...
This is an all over the place rant. You have been warned.
The mission will finish if you go off to a corner and wait. The NPC allied will eventully kill the command ship. Every time I've played the mission, I've just picked off Frigates and Escorts I could peel off from the squadrons. If I got bracketed with Cone o' Doom. I EM'ed and Cloaked to get out of the way and shed aggro.
I can say that I know the mindset of the mission designer, but I don't think that is how this mission is intended to be played: avoid the fight and let the NPC Allies do all the work. If the designer intended the PC to be heroic and lead the fight against the command ships, I suggest that you relearn the power and AI behaviors of the Elachi, and TRY AGAIN.
I can't for the life of my figure out why you INCREASED the difficulty of that last wave? Was it because the NPC allies where doing all of the working of killing the command ship? Well read my previous paragraphs as to why. It may prove insightful. Yes I'm being petty and sniping at the designer. I just don't feel very respectful right now. The mission makes my very frustated and angry. It's just stupid compared to the rest of the excellent Romulan content.
A suggesttion to make it easy for the play and yet epic. NPC two or fleets fighting it at long distance from the player's play area like in "Operation Gamma". Wall the areas off from the player if you need to. Keep the waves smaller that the player has to fight. Keep the waved small enough to allow the player to heroically lead the fight ultimately against the Command Ship. The Elachi are too powerful to use on large groups and you expect the player and non-plot armor allies to survive.
Make the waves for the player smaller. Left the Player heroically lead the assault on the command ships
Sci in a D'd...
THY1, FaW2
EPtS1, EPtW2, AtB2, EWP2
EPtW1, EPtS2
ST1, TBR
Fore: 2x Beam arrays(I think one was a Caustic Plasma), 2x Torps
Aft: 2x beam arrays, Hargh Torp
The gear wasn't anything particularly good, but I did manage to find 2 consoles that boosted beam arrays in general.
My combat strategy was to grab aggro and that way my NPC allies live longer. It worked for me. Most of the NPCs were still alive by the time Wave 3 got there. I was able to keep my shield power above 100 most of the time. I massacred whatever got into firing range and eventually made my way to the command ship.
It's fun watching Elachi Subspace Jump into Warp Plasma.
My character Tsin'xing
well to be exact only one was a command ship, it was just flanked by two elachi dreads when it came in, so I had a total of three dreadnoughts. It was similar to fighting the DS9, boldly they rode fight, only with all the waves there at the start, and all in one spot.
The cone might have been a fluke for me, but with everyone of them doing it at once it was brutal. and they are very good about space jumping then activating it. I had times were they would do that, id get out of one, only to have another pop behind me and start it, manage to ride evasive out of that one, and have two more pop in and do it and get whacked. wasn't fatal, but watching 30% of the D'd's hull go bye bye in one hit was not fun.
But as ive said I think most of the overwhelmingness of this is more to do with numbers of ships, the mix, and how the elachi spider tank, and their ship tiers synergize. and while I hate the ground combat, way too much damn random movement, the ships and powers them selves seem fine. that they all Space jump was a surprise to me, that I had to adapt too, eh.
Im sure some people have had a breeze with this, and others have been rolled by it. But ultimately you have to look at this from a mid ground point of view, especially if you have newer players. tweaking the groups numbers should accomplish that, its fine if they kill off the npc fleet, but when they can do it almost instantly at the start of the fight, it easy for a player to get swamped. taking out one of the dreads, and cutting back on the escorts just a touch might do.
My character Tsin'xing
[Combat (Self)] Monbosh Battleship deals 26074 (51870) Kinetic Damage to you with Warp Core Breach.
Pesky bugger jumped and blew up behind me, lol.
Okay anyway, a few things I suppose.
Dread Command Dread
But the Command is forward of the two Dreads and can be pulled off to the left. It will follow you even when you're cloaked - while the others will not. As your fighting the Command, yes - Monbosh, pair of S'golth, and three Quaalash will eventually join. The Command will launch shuttles. If you damage the Monbosh without killing it, it will separate. The Monbosh Support will toss heals to the Command...HE and ExS.
The longer it takes you to kill the Command, the more likely that the other groups will catch up to you. This could lead to you getting overwhelmed. You can cloak, lose aggro, and move to another group, or decloak on the edge of the group to kite them back away from the Command.
As somebody pointed out as well, you could just cloak and watch the fight. Eventually the Ally NPCs will destroy the Command for you.
You can't sit in the cones. But with the Singularity Jump, Evasive Maneuvers, Engine Batteries, or even just adjusting your power settings - they're easy to avoid.
You have to redistribute your shields. If you're just relying on TT to do that for you, you're going to leave gaps and you're also not going to have the TT to clear the Boarding Parties if you can't shoot them down. With the VMs, you're either using ET, have some points in Subsystem Repair to diminish the duration, you're hitting an EPtX or batteries to bring the system back online, or you're moving out there.
It's all just a bunch of basics. Things that folks should have been picking up along the way to this point from fighting other things.
Movement. Target selection. Defensive abilities. Offensive abilities. It's not requiring anything special. Are there more enemies? Sure. Spread them out. Tackle them like any other mission where they're artificially spread out for you. Are the Command/Dreadnoughts tougher than other ships? Sure. Bang at them harder, it might take longer.
If it's a case of expecting to sit there and have them fall over dead at your awesomeness (Don't they know who you are?)...well, no - that's not going to work. But if you've gotten this far - you've picked up all the skills you need to handle the situation. Just use them.
Not like your loose all your assets when you die. :rolleyes:
call the above what you will i dont care, but it should not be like that at all.
heck the easier and slower way out is to cloak or die and wait for the allied god mode ships to deal with the trouble and that can take upto 30 minutes or longer before you can come out. but why should you have to do that? you are supposed to be destroying the fleet.
that should not be happening at all if you are completely reliant on the god mode allies to do your job for you which only proves someone messed up with the map design, quite badly. i am amazed there is no official line if this is the way it shall be on launch and if it is like this officially, then i will give up and watch the nerd rage hit general within a few days...
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Problem is, the allied ships is stuck in an eternal repair loop, wich means no help from them.
I have tried this mission numerous times, but the same thing allways happens to the allied ships, eternal repair loop.
Kiting does not work, as soon as I attack the command ship, the other ships comes racing to it's aid, so that method does not work.
I have been playing since closed beta of STO, so I have a good grasp of tactics.
Those of you who find it easy, what level did you do it at?? Lvl 50?? Above the intended level??
If so, it should be a bit easier, since you get better ships and equipment...
If not, then I have no clue as to how some finds it to be a cake walk, and others are being ground into tiny little pieces...
Heh, that Torp'deridex was from the discussions about the turn rate. I wanted to see what it would be like with no port/starboard weapon capability. It was a little tedious, lol.
I've never experienced that. Did you bug report it?
The post you quoted was my actually typing as I was doing the mission and making notes.
Between 29-32 or so is when you usually hit it first.
Then usually hit it again at 40.
Then hit it again at 50.
One of those wanting the Singularity Core Mk to match even though the stats don't change. Some of us are quirky that way, lol.
So I've probably done it 12-14 times now, including what I did for that post.
Done it in the following ships: Mogai, D'deridex, Ha'nom, and Ha'feh.
Done it with the following careers: Tac, Eng, and Sci.
Mobs scale. But you know that.
It would be one thing if a 50 w/ Rep/Fleet gear, passives, etc, etc, etc were saying it were easy...but I don't think that's the case.
That was the point of my post there...to try to point out where folks might be having issues.