I dont mind D'Tan. Its the mechanics driving the game around D'tan i dont like.. There should always be room on a corner somewhere for a crazy philosopher to spout his ramblings. What I really abject too is that there exists the Obsidian Order, S31, The Tal Shiar, and god only knows what the kdF has. but there is no romulan Military ( ergo the extreme likeness to Firefly and Serenity )There is no RSE, there is no romulan. Just more fed or kdf with funny head attachments. you report to your ally, take orders from them bend over backwards for them and take their insults of calling you federation or klingon.. This isnt Romulan. This is a trumped up over inflated joke.
I'm just curious, if you're so unhappy with everything why are you playing and why did you spend money on the title you have under your forum avatar? I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely curious, because your post conveys very strong negative feelings toward the expansion.
I think the fact they're telling a story is a good thing. It's obvious how much they've improved their technique compared to when the game first launched, and instead of being happy about the fact they've given us something cool people are just sitting here complaining about it. The Romulan storyline is some of the best stuff I've played in an MMO, I found it interesting and engaging and I actually cared about what was going on as opposed to just "clicking through" like I have in so many other games. I saw another post where someone said that some people are upset because Cryptic told the story for them.
The fact that Cryptic told a story has no bearing on how I see my Romulan or how I'll portray him to others. I'd like to get rid of Tovan myself at the end, but if I can't I can't. I won't use him as a BOFF except where I have to, and after I'm out of the Romulan only content I won't use him at all. He won't beam down with me. He won't be a department head for my doffs. He won't be assigned to any of my bridge consoles. Despite the fact I don't want to use him after the story is done and would like to get rid of him I like that they gave us someone who has some substance.
You can really see how much has gone into this. The effort on this expansion compared to anything else that's been done just blows my mind and I'm grateful for it. They could have easily pencil whipped this out into a mini faction like the KDF used to be. Instead, they gave us all this Romulan content and gave the KDF it's own tutorial and expanded it. So we have to ally, can you imagine how small the player base for each faction would become if they didn't? If they just keep dividing it over and over each time they release a new faction there won't be enough players in them for anyone to do anything; except maybe Federation.
Because we had no idea of the full extent of what we would end up with in the end?
I can understand somethings since he is right on the fact we never actually see the Romulan Imperial Navy that its a separate branch of the Tal'shiar and what we get is the Tal'shiar and ONLY the Tal'shiar so either the entire Romulan Military joined D'tan group or Cryptic is ignoring it.
Worst, it seems none of you played beyond the Revenge arc, the Freedom Arc is a God damn joke and it gets worst, they made the minimum effort to upgrade the FEs for Romulans, one of the refurbished missions of the Cardassian Arc that somehow ended up with the Cardassian ship calling me a "Klingon ship" despite I been Fed allied.
Point is, the moment Revenge Arc is over you stop being Romulan, you are now a Starfleet or KDF member because missions make few if any effort to address you as such, in fact the whole Cardassian front is utter rubbish because they skipped missions that are part of a story chain, "Crack in the Mirror" you have access foreshadows to "The Other Side" that you DONT have access so the whole "Mirror Universe Invasion" is left hanging because you lack access to the conclusion of that story arc.
Now you are going to say "Cryptic will address that later" and I just point out to the KDF ... sure they got a tutorial but most of the new KDF missions are Fed missions refurbished and the Freedom arc is just UNACCEPTABLE for Romulans, only Coliseum works and only works because that one is too neutral in tone to be screwed up, the other missions? no ... I am not going to tell some Romulan Refuge that "Starfleet send help" because last time I checked my ship didnt said USS ... even if the prefix is somehow available.
Romulan Republic indeed ... with ships that say "United Space Ship".
I guess I just took something different away from it all, and I leveled through quite a bit of the content on Tribble and didn't have a problem with the story; nor did my ship say "USS" (or in my case IKS), it said RRW for a bit. Later it said IRW because I was feeling froggy.
I went ahead and did "Temporal Ambassador". Since I chose to ally with the Feds, I got an Ambassador-class ship as a reward. It is now the RRW Chameleon - I really ought to fly it one of these days...
the simple fix for that would have the text make it so you are the representative for the romulan republic in the meeting
would not take much and then they would not have to add in another delegate and just add in another contact instead of the federation or KDF contact. just have D'tan say they chose you to represent the romulans in the talks
rest of the missions yeah they are pretty badly forced in just like with the KDF
Actually I don't think they did enough work on the expansion, and frankly it feels like they're rushing it out the door.
The Romulan story itself has some glaring holes in it that make it feel like a hodgepodge of other stories forced together. You can find some elaboration on that in the OP. It's only in the last week or two that the upper half of the Romulan content has been finished enough to test on Tribble.
As others have pointed out, after level 30ish you stop being Romulan, you're not Federation or KDF. If it's a simple fix to change the text, the reason they haven't done it is either they don't intend to, or they're shoving this expansion out the door. The fact that I was a KDF-aligned Romulan and was rescued by Federation ships during Facility 4028 further compounds the idea.
It seems like they really just gave us a newbie experience for half the levels, much like they have now added to the KDF, and simply gave up on taking it any further. After you hit the Cardassian missions, any pretense of a Romulan faction is just gone outside of one or two vague references.
Actually I don't think they did enough work on the expansion, and frankly it feels like they're rushing it out the door.
The Romulan story itself has some glaring holes in it that make it feel like a hodgepodge of other stories forced together. You can find some elaboration on that in the OP. It's only in the last week or two that the upper half of the Romulan content has been finished enough to test on Tribble.
As others have pointed out, after level 30ish you stop being Romulan, you're not Federation or KDF. If it's a simple fix to change the text, the reason they haven't done it is either they don't intend to, or they're shoving this expansion out the door. The fact that I was a KDF-aligned Romulan and was rescued by Federation ships during Facility 4028 further compounds the idea.
It seems like they really just gave us a newbie experience for half the levels, much like they have now added to the KDF, and simply gave up on taking it any further. After you hit the Cardassian missions, any pretense of a Romulan faction is just gone outside of one or two vague references.
We can only hope they finish the other half of the romulan 'faction' sooner rather than later. So they can stand alone.
Second wave has always bothered me. You would think there would be more species around that table anyway. The defari just strike me as the odds ones out, because of the way it's currently set up. You have 10 chairs around the conference table, 6 get used leaving 4 available. You would think 1 of them would be banjoran because of its location on ds9. I fact surely the banjoran s would make a better speaker since its hosted in there space. Theres No romulan presents!?! It seems a bit odd having gorn giving it the big Klingon empire talk as well. I think they could have thrown at least 4 more species in that conference to beef it up and give it more credibility. Even a cheeky ferengi invite would have been cool. Basically them seats need to be filled!
Again, the problem is things end at Vengeance, they tried to change some Cardassian missions so the text does make a reference to you being Romulan but problem remains when not all "Fed" references are removed or even more problematic, you are not taking orders from a New Romulus and the mission acceptation text just defaults to you "allied" faction.
What I feel after Revenge is over is I was sold out to the Feds, in "Second Wave" they dont even added a Romulan Representative so let me put this way, right now the Defari are more important to the KDF and the Federation that the Romulan Republic ... the DEFARI .... heck even the DEMILITARIZED Cardassian Union are more important.
I totally get where you guys are coming from.
I guess it just doesn't bother me because it's old content and I'm like "Meh, old content, done it before." I'll just rush through it. I didn't expect all the old content to be perfect. Would it be nice? Heck yeah! Now, if any new content that comes out post-LoR doesn't include Romulan representation I'll be upset. And it also occurred to me that I'm acting on behalf of my ally and helping them out like the Klingons did the Federation so many times in the shows; "Hey, can you do us a favor and..." because an alliance is give and take. "You're helping me build a new homeworld, sure I'll go talk to these stupid aliens for you. I'm a Romulan, I could probably do it better anyway."
But again, I totally get your concerns and what you're saying.
in about 3 days, most everyone else is going to figure that out and I predict social media will be merciless. This is right up there with Jar Jar Binks and The Temporal Cold war. Its a crime against humanity.
Okay, I have read most of the "responses" in this thread, and I have to say something about this. You don't know that, colonelchenchuan. Sorry, you don't know that, how can you? you're not a telepath, and just because you are a part of the vocal minority that dislikes the way that the Romulans have been handled, it doesn't mean the vast majority will see it your way.
Personally, I love the way that the Romulans aren't the evil, vile terrors of the Tal Shiar or the RSE.
It's okay if you dislike the Romulan Republic. It's not like you have to play the Romulan content to even get to level 50 or to continue after reaching level 50, so I don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it.
You're confussing the RSE for the KDF, honest mistake really... happens to the best of us!
*twirls mustache* "yes, all those slaves, dastardly cowardly frame up jobs, and nefarious thievery for tasty, TASTY Dilithium and EC!! MBUAHAHAHAH!!!"
Just a question: did the Klingons ever experiment on their captured prisoners or even on their subject races? I was under the impression that the Klingon Empire were honorable, how honorable would it be if they were experimenting on people? That's not honorable in any way. Only the Tal Shiar would do something like that, since the Tal Shiar basically are the RSE, then what commanderkassy said is still true.
Just a question: did the Klingons ever experiment on their captured prisoners or even on their subject races? I was under the impression that the Klingon Empire were honorable, how honorable would it be if they were experimenting on people? That's not honorable in any way. Only the Tal Shiar would do something like that, since the Tal Shiar basically are the RSE, then what commanderkassy said is still true.
The klingons explicitly use torture as both a form of extracting information and execution. This is mentioned in both TNG and in STO where you can recapture an excaped Romulan prisoner and turn him over to his captor, who states his intention to torture him to death.
Plus the aformentioned slavery, forced labor, and death camps.
KDF are no better than the RSE of old, which is why so many expected to be able to play as them, isntead of this Romulan Republic.
One thing i'd like to clarify though its been clarified before in this thread. The Tal'Shiar is NOT the RSE. The Tal Shiar is kind of like the Waffen SS or the KGB. The RSE is the normal every day Romulan military. It IS military, but it is honorable ( evidenced by Commander Donatra of the Romulan warbird Valdore in Nemisis ), Politically active in the Senate, and as with all politicians, ruthless. It does not turn captives into borg and it does not eat its enemies babies for desert.
As for how the addon will be treated by the media?? I believe the colonel is correct. Like it or not, such grand flourishes of advertising and fluff followed by an almost complete lack of substance has always been treated harshly by the media. it's like buying (sight unseen ) a ferrari, only to find it was really an old beat up volkswagen with a ferrari body on top.. Cryptic is gonna take a major blow on this one.
in TNG, DS9, and VOY yes but in sto the RSE of old is gone the military was disolved after the civil war that broke out after the destruction of romulus and the tal shiar took over. in sto canon the tal shiar IS the military and the government of the "RSE"
The klingons explicitly use torture as both a form of extracting information and execution. This is mentioned in both TNG and in STO where you can recapture an excaped Romulan prisoner and turn him over to his captor, who states his intention to torture him to death.
Plus the aformentioned slavery, forced labor, and death camps.
KDF are no better than the RSE of old, which is why so many expected to be able to play as them, isntead of this Romulan Republic.
Torture isn't experimentation. Experimentation would be something like how you are actively trying to turn a normal humanoid into a Borg by forcefully implanting Borg components onto this normal humanoid as you do in Mind Games.
Klingons don't do that, They're far better than the RSE in that respect.
Also, you might think colonelchenchuan is correct, but that remains to be seen if he actually is correct. Another point that seems to have been ignored: Sela is the Empress of the Romulan Star Empire, but she's also a 'de-facto' head of the Tal Shiar. So, yea, RSE and Tal Shiar connection is still there.
Torture isn't experimentation. Experimentation would be something like how you are actively trying to turn a normal humanoid into a Borg by forcefully implanting Borg components onto this normal humanoid as you do in Mind Games.
Klingons don't do that, They're far better than the RSE in that respect.
Also, you might think colonelchenchuan is correct, but that remains to be seen if he actually is correct. Another point that seems to have been ignored: Sela is the Empress of the Romulan Star Empire, but she's also a 'de-facto' head of the Tal Shiar. So, yea, RSE and Tal Shiar connection is still there.
Then I guess it's a good thing that Klingon scientists never experimented on their own people with Augment DNA, thank Q for that ! :P
And their government is as "honorable" as any other.... Honor has no place in politics. Klingon Honor surely isn't Human Honor. "There is no greater Honor than Victory" sums up the Klingons stance on Honor the best I think.
One thing i'd like to clarify though its been clarified before in this thread. The Tal'Shiar is NOT the RSE. The Tal Shiar is kind of like the Waffen SS or the KGB. The RSE is the normal every day Romulan military. It IS military, but it is honorable ( evidenced by Commander Donatra of the Romulan warbird Valdore in Nemisis ), Politically active in the Senate, and as with all politicians, ruthless. It does not turn captives into borg and it does not eat its enemies babies for desert.
As for how the addon will be treated by the media?? I believe the colonel is correct. Like it or not, such grand flourishes of advertising and fluff followed by an almost complete lack of substance has always been treated harshly by the media. it's like buying (sight unseen ) a ferrari, only to find it was really an old beat up volkswagen with a ferrari body on top.. Cryptic is gonna take a major blow on this one.
well... like the "gaming" sites normally do they will have "postitve" reviews if the company bought ads and once the ad buy is used up tell the truth.
I also supsect we will see more Fake PWE posters on the forums than usual the next couple of weeks. They used to be easier to spot before they reset all our forum dates but you can still smell some a mile away.
[QUOTE=blassreiterus;10067201 Sorry, you don't know that, how can you? you're not a telepath, and just because you are a part of the vocal minority that dislikes the way that the Romulans have been handled, it doesn't mean the vast majority will see it your way.
Personally, I love the way that the Romulans aren't the evil, vile terrors of the Tal Shiar or the RSE.
It's okay if you dislike the Romulan Republic. It's not like you have to play the Romulan content to even get to level 50 or to continue after reaching level 50, so I don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it.
Just a question: did the Klingons ever experiment on their captured prisoners or even on their subject races? I was under the impression that the Klingon Empire were honorable, how honorable would it be if they were experimenting on people? That's not honorable in any way. Only the Tal Shiar would do something like that, since the Tal Shiar basically are the RSE, then what commanderkassy said is still true.[/QUOTE]
Well firstly, you claim he's in the minority but there's really no way to know just what percentage of people lie for or against each specific fact. To use your own words, just because you like it doesn't mean the vast majority will see it your way. The closest thing we have for evidence is that article which compared negative to positive responses on the announcement of the Romulans not being RSE, where there were a significant percentage more negative than positive responses. But even that isn't exactly hard evidence. The only thing you can claim with certainty is that since the majority of players don't post on the forums, we're all in the vocal minority.
Also I hate to break it to you, but being part of the Romulan Star Empire doesn't automatically make you an evil, vile terror.
As far as the Klingons experimenting on people, all you need to do is check out Enterprise episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence" where Uncle Phil forces Dr Phlox to experiment on Klingon prisoners. Also some would say the labour prison of Rura Penthe, working your prisoners to death, isn't exactly honorable.
With regard to saying "it's not like you have to play the romulan content" and "don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it", you need to stop with that. Firstly, that's what can be referred to as "thought terminating cliche" saying "you don't have to play it", that doesn't do anything to deal with the issue at hand, just tells people to effectively shut up. Not to mention that Cryptic wants us to play it. Secondly, with regard to "complain and whine", that's you just attempting to be insulting. If Cryptic decided that the Federation disbanded and all humans went to join the Maquis, would you tell the people upset over it that they were just "whining"? Also, I should point out a very important point: This forum is labeled as General Discussion and Feedback. We are giving our feedback about the major issues in the Romulan content. You seem to want us instead to say nothing, but that means Cryptic can't fix any problems they find because of our feedback. You seem to forget that people being critical of the content is an important part of the process. Also it's obvious there's a significant number of people upset with the direction, and that's something Cryptic needs to see when they're making their decisions on adjustments/content in the future.
If Cryptic decided that the Federation disbanded and all humans went to join the Maquis, would you tell the people upset over it that they were just "whining"?
That's such a ridiculous red herring argument. First, the Federation is, essentially, the protagonist of "Star Trek". Second, the Maquis were an extreme fringe group with one pet issue. Dissatisfaction with the status quo was shown as rampant in the RSE. Third, the Romulan Republic is a natural progression of everything that has happened in Star Trek since the original series. The Maquis example could, at this point, come only from random whim. It's a completely apples-and-oranges comparison, at best.
Also, I should point out a very important point: This forum is labeled as General Discussion and Feedback. We are giving our feedback about the major issues in the Romulan content. You seem to want us instead to say nothing, but that means Cryptic can't fix any problems they find because of our feedback.
Complaiming that Cryptic isn't telling the story you think they should tell isn't "feedback", it's just complaining. Feedback would be, "okay, I see the story you want to tell, here are the things that aren't working right now." Whereas most of you and yours are just going "I don't like this story, I demand you scrap everything to tell the story I want." So, since you'll never be happy with the story Cryptic is telling, the people saying "if you don't like it, don't play it" are correct.
And as for the argument that the RSE is not the Tal Shiar - there would've been no RSE without the Tal Shiar. At best, the Tal Shiar was the apparatus by which the elites enforced their rule and held on to power; at worst, the Tal Shiar was running things. That is the way of ALL secret police forces. Sure, the RSE could theoretically disband the Tal Shiar, but it would just be replaced by some other secret police force - the same monster with a different name.
Actually he did exactly that in his first post, it's hardly his fault that others have decided to take this thread in a different direction and no his comparison to the Maquis is not a red herring it is exactly appropriate because that is essentially what has happened with the RSE except the difference is there was no underground resistance group attempting to establish a Republic in the RSE, but again he didn't take this thread in that direction as he originally did only provide feedback, which considering it's the first post I find it hard to believe you didn't already know.
That's such a ridiculous red herring argument. First, the Federation is, essentially, the protagonist of "Star Trek". Second, the Maquis were an extreme fringe group with one pet issue. Dissatisfaction with the status quo was shown as rampant in the RSE. Third, the Romulan Republic is a natural progression of everything that has happened in Star Trek since the original series. The Maquis example could, at this point, come only from random whim. It's a completely apples-and-oranges comparison, at best.
Whining that Cryptic isn't telling the story you think they should tell isn't "feedback", it's just whining. Feedback would be, "okay, I see the story you want to tell, here are the things that aren't working right now." Whereas most of you and yours are just going "waaaaaaaaaaaah, I don't like this story, I demand you scrap everything to tell the story I want." So, since you'll never be happy with the story Cryptic is telling, the people saying "if you don't like it, don't play it" are correct.
And as for the argument that the RSE is not the Tal Shiar - there would've been no RSE without the Tal Shiar. At best, the Tal Shiar was the apparatus by which the elites enforced their rule and held on to power; at worst, the Tal Shiar was running things. That is the way of ALL secret police forces. Sure, the RSE could theoretically disband the Tal Shiar, but it would just be replaced by some other secret police force - the same monster with a different name.
Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
That's such a ridiculous red herring argument. First, the Federation is, essentially, the protagonist of "Star Trek". Second, the Maquis were an extreme fringe group with one pet issue. Dissatisfaction with the status quo was shown as rampant in the RSE. Third, the Romulan Republic is a natural progression of everything that has happened in Star Trek since the original series. The Maquis example could, at this point, come only from random whim. It's a completely apples-and-oranges comparison, at best.
Whining that Cryptic isn't telling the story you think they should tell isn't "feedback", it's just whining. Feedback would be, "okay, I see the story you want to tell, here are the things that aren't working right now." Whereas most of you and yours are just going "waaaaaaaaaaaah, I don't like this story, I demand you scrap everything to tell the story I want." So, since you'll never be happy with the story Cryptic is telling, the people saying "if you don't like it, don't play it" are correct.
And as for the argument that the RSE is not the Tal Shiar - there would've been no RSE without the Tal Shiar. At best, the Tal Shiar was the apparatus by which the elites enforced their rule and held on to power; at worst, the Tal Shiar was running things. That is the way of ALL secret police forces. Sure, the RSE could theoretically disband the Tal Shiar, but it would just be replaced by some other secret police force - the same monster with a different name.
Honestly it just sounds like your whining because you can't fathom anyone disagreeing with you... None the less it is clear even in cryptics back story that the empress and the Talk Shiar are not friends. It is more of a case of power struggles between the military an Tal Shiar and who has the upper hand at the time. Lastly just because there are evil faction within the empire doesn't make every one who supports it evil in a very small group would even know what was going on. I wanted to play a Romulan not a small group that rebels and is a rebel- fed wannabe. But since i doubt they wi change that at least i hope they make it a stand alone faction by changing some things suggested by the op.
Also dont forget that obesek misspelled i know is a terrorist him self and you help him:p
As others have pointed out, did you read the original post?
As far as the Maquis, I think it's rather apt. A great quadrant-spanning power is arbitrarily crippled and so the survivors become rebel terrorists fighting for a cause that one doesn't exactly associate with the personality of the species. But you stumbled upon one of the major points, almost everyone would be up in arms if that's what happened to the federation because they're the "protagonist" of the IP. However, since Romulans aren't the favored group of the majority, those of us who do favor the RSE are told to 'shut up and stop whining' when we object to them being destroyed. If it were the Federation being seriously overhauled and changed to something quite different, do you think people would stand for us saying to 'shut up and stop whining' or 'if you don't like it don't play it'? I think not.
There's actually a really good example of how the Tal Shiar and the RSE are somewhat independent of each other. Remember in Deep Space 9, Enabran Tain took a fleet comprised of ships of the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar across the wormhole to fight the Dominion? That was in 2371. The Romulans entered into a nonaggression pact with the Dominion that lasted years I believe, and the Romulan Star Empire as a whole did not suffer at the loss of those Tal Shiar ships. It was only in 2374 that the Romulan Star Empire, not the Tal Shiar, declared war on the Dominion and joined the Federation / Klingons. There's certainly any number of ways the story could have spun with players as the RSE citizens/military without having them be Tal Shiar. Although, while we're on the subject, some people might point to the Klingons as "monsters" much the same way you point the finger at the Tal Shiar. Yet we're all happy to have Klingons as a playable faction. Funny, isn't it?
There's actually a really good example of how the Tal Shiar and the RSE are somewhat independent of each other. Remember in Deep Space 9, Enabran Tain took a fleet comprised of ships of the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar across the wormhole to fight the Dominion? That was in 2371. The Romulans entered into a nonaggression pact with the Dominion that lasted years I believe, and the Romulan Star Empire as a whole did not suffer at the loss of those Tal Shiar ships. It was only in 2374 that the Romulan Star Empire, not the Tal Shiar, declared war on the Dominion and joined the Federation / Klingons. There's certainly any number of ways the story could have spun with players as the RSE citizens/military without having them be Tal Shiar. Although, while we're on the subject, some people might point to the Klingons as "monsters" much the same way you point the finger at the Tal Shiar. Yet we're all happy to have Klingons as a playable faction. Funny, isn't it?
this^^^^^^^^^^^^^ with this
By the 24th century, the government of Romulus was dependent upon the Tal Shiar, the Romulan secret police, to maintain order and stability among both civilians and the military. The Tal Shiar was known for its brutal tactics, which included routine kidnapping, torture, and assassination. Many Romulans fear even expressing dissenting opinions as not to spark the interest of the Tal Shiar. There were also indications that tension existed between the military and the Tal Shiar. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy")
The Tal Shiar reports only to the highest levels of the Romulan government, and even so they undertake many missions without the direct knowledge of the Romulan Senate, conducting operations with virtual impunity throughout the Empire. Their authority supersedes that of most Romulan military commanders, resulting in a mutual distrust and hatred between the two organizations. The Tal Shiar operates their own fleet, often to their own aims. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy"; DS9: "The Die is Cast")
By the 24th century, the government of Romulus was dependent upon the Tal Shiar, the Romulan secret police, to maintain order and stability among both civilians and the military. The Tal Shiar was known for its brutal tactics, which included routine kidnapping, torture, and assassination. Many Romulans fear even expressing dissenting opinions as not to spark the interest of the Tal Shiar. There were also indications that tension existed between the military and the Tal Shiar. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy")
By the 24th century, the government of Romulus was dependent upon the Tal Shiar, the Romulan secret police, to maintain order and stability among both civilians and the military.
Real good argument that the RSE is independent of the Tal Shiar, or that every Romulan loved their autocratic, oppressive government, you've got there.
I mean, seriously. The above examples show exactly what I was talking about: the Romulan government was either dependent on the Tal Shiar to quell dissent and stay in power, or the Tal Shiar was basically running things and able to act with impunity. Either way the Romulan Star Empire as shown in TNG was inextricably tied with the Tal Shiar, as the above posts have so thoughtfully showcased.
At any rate, my main point still stands: none of this has anything to do with providing feedback for the story Cryptic has actually written; it's just a lot of griping that isn't remotely useful.
Uh huh, tell us more about how his first post isn't feedback?
Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
And once the Romulan High Command was destroyed, along with the homeworlds, while the Tal Shiar was most likely prepared (since it was their leadership that destroyed the homeworlds), you assume the military would still remain independent of the Tal Shiar?
The far more likely scenario, in my view, would be that the Tal Shiar would be taking advantage of the chaos following Hobus to consolidate their grip on the Empire, removing any inconvenient officers with old-fashioned notions like "freedom" or "serving the Fleet, not Hakeev". You know, kind of like the way Stalin used the post-WWII chaos to tighten the Soviet Union's grip on its territory, and eliminate opposition to the KBG's effective rule...
Comments
I'm just curious, if you're so unhappy with everything why are you playing and why did you spend money on the title you have under your forum avatar? I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely curious, because your post conveys very strong negative feelings toward the expansion.
I think the fact they're telling a story is a good thing. It's obvious how much they've improved their technique compared to when the game first launched, and instead of being happy about the fact they've given us something cool people are just sitting here complaining about it. The Romulan storyline is some of the best stuff I've played in an MMO, I found it interesting and engaging and I actually cared about what was going on as opposed to just "clicking through" like I have in so many other games. I saw another post where someone said that some people are upset because Cryptic told the story for them.
The fact that Cryptic told a story has no bearing on how I see my Romulan or how I'll portray him to others. I'd like to get rid of Tovan myself at the end, but if I can't I can't. I won't use him as a BOFF except where I have to, and after I'm out of the Romulan only content I won't use him at all. He won't beam down with me. He won't be a department head for my doffs. He won't be assigned to any of my bridge consoles. Despite the fact I don't want to use him after the story is done and would like to get rid of him I like that they gave us someone who has some substance.
You can really see how much has gone into this. The effort on this expansion compared to anything else that's been done just blows my mind and I'm grateful for it. They could have easily pencil whipped this out into a mini faction like the KDF used to be. Instead, they gave us all this Romulan content and gave the KDF it's own tutorial and expanded it. So we have to ally, can you imagine how small the player base for each faction would become if they didn't? If they just keep dividing it over and over each time they release a new faction there won't be enough players in them for anyone to do anything; except maybe Federation.
Okay. I'm done now.
I guess I just took something different away from it all, and I leveled through quite a bit of the content on Tribble and didn't have a problem with the story; nor did my ship say "USS" (or in my case IKS), it said RRW for a bit. Later it said IRW because I was feeling froggy.
would not take much and then they would not have to add in another delegate and just add in another contact instead of the federation or KDF contact. just have D'tan say they chose you to represent the romulans in the talks
rest of the missions yeah they are pretty badly forced in just like with the KDF
The Romulan story itself has some glaring holes in it that make it feel like a hodgepodge of other stories forced together. You can find some elaboration on that in the OP. It's only in the last week or two that the upper half of the Romulan content has been finished enough to test on Tribble.
As others have pointed out, after level 30ish you stop being Romulan, you're not Federation or KDF. If it's a simple fix to change the text, the reason they haven't done it is either they don't intend to, or they're shoving this expansion out the door. The fact that I was a KDF-aligned Romulan and was rescued by Federation ships during Facility 4028 further compounds the idea.
It seems like they really just gave us a newbie experience for half the levels, much like they have now added to the KDF, and simply gave up on taking it any further. After you hit the Cardassian missions, any pretense of a Romulan faction is just gone outside of one or two vague references.
why the kdf is allowed there any way i never understood at all it;s always been a plothole
We can only hope they finish the other half of the romulan 'faction' sooner rather than later. So they can stand alone.
Second wave has always bothered me. You would think there would be more species around that table anyway. The defari just strike me as the odds ones out, because of the way it's currently set up. You have 10 chairs around the conference table, 6 get used leaving 4 available. You would think 1 of them would be banjoran because of its location on ds9. I fact surely the banjoran s would make a better speaker since its hosted in there space. Theres No romulan presents!?! It seems a bit odd having gorn giving it the big Klingon empire talk as well. I think they could have thrown at least 4 more species in that conference to beef it up and give it more credibility. Even a cheeky ferengi invite would have been cool. Basically them seats need to be filled!
I totally get where you guys are coming from.
I guess it just doesn't bother me because it's old content and I'm like "Meh, old content, done it before." I'll just rush through it. I didn't expect all the old content to be perfect. Would it be nice? Heck yeah! Now, if any new content that comes out post-LoR doesn't include Romulan representation I'll be upset. And it also occurred to me that I'm acting on behalf of my ally and helping them out like the Klingons did the Federation so many times in the shows; "Hey, can you do us a favor and..." because an alliance is give and take. "You're helping me build a new homeworld, sure I'll go talk to these stupid aliens for you. I'm a Romulan, I could probably do it better anyway."
But again, I totally get your concerns and what you're saying.
Personally, I love the way that the Romulans aren't the evil, vile terrors of the Tal Shiar or the RSE.
It's okay if you dislike the Romulan Republic. It's not like you have to play the Romulan content to even get to level 50 or to continue after reaching level 50, so I don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it.
Just a question: did the Klingons ever experiment on their captured prisoners or even on their subject races? I was under the impression that the Klingon Empire were honorable, how honorable would it be if they were experimenting on people? That's not honorable in any way. Only the Tal Shiar would do something like that, since the Tal Shiar basically are the RSE, then what commanderkassy said is still true.
The klingons explicitly use torture as both a form of extracting information and execution. This is mentioned in both TNG and in STO where you can recapture an excaped Romulan prisoner and turn him over to his captor, who states his intention to torture him to death.
Plus the aformentioned slavery, forced labor, and death camps.
KDF are no better than the RSE of old, which is why so many expected to be able to play as them, isntead of this Romulan Republic.
As for how the addon will be treated by the media?? I believe the colonel is correct. Like it or not, such grand flourishes of advertising and fluff followed by an almost complete lack of substance has always been treated harshly by the media. it's like buying (sight unseen ) a ferrari, only to find it was really an old beat up volkswagen with a ferrari body on top.. Cryptic is gonna take a major blow on this one.
Klingons don't do that, They're far better than the RSE in that respect.
Also, you might think colonelchenchuan is correct, but that remains to be seen if he actually is correct. Another point that seems to have been ignored: Sela is the Empress of the Romulan Star Empire, but she's also a 'de-facto' head of the Tal Shiar. So, yea, RSE and Tal Shiar connection is still there.
Then I guess it's a good thing that Klingon scientists never experimented on their own people with Augment DNA, thank Q for that ! :P
And their government is as "honorable" as any other.... Honor has no place in politics. Klingon Honor surely isn't Human Honor. "There is no greater Honor than Victory" sums up the Klingons stance on Honor the best I think.
well... like the "gaming" sites normally do they will have "postitve" reviews if the company bought ads and once the ad buy is used up tell the truth.
I also supsect we will see more Fake PWE posters on the forums than usual the next couple of weeks. They used to be easier to spot before they reset all our forum dates but you can still smell some a mile away.
Personally, I love the way that the Romulans aren't the evil, vile terrors of the Tal Shiar or the RSE.
It's okay if you dislike the Romulan Republic. It's not like you have to play the Romulan content to even get to level 50 or to continue after reaching level 50, so I don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it.
Just a question: did the Klingons ever experiment on their captured prisoners or even on their subject races? I was under the impression that the Klingon Empire were honorable, how honorable would it be if they were experimenting on people? That's not honorable in any way. Only the Tal Shiar would do something like that, since the Tal Shiar basically are the RSE, then what commanderkassy said is still true.[/QUOTE]
Well firstly, you claim he's in the minority but there's really no way to know just what percentage of people lie for or against each specific fact. To use your own words, just because you like it doesn't mean the vast majority will see it your way. The closest thing we have for evidence is that article which compared negative to positive responses on the announcement of the Romulans not being RSE, where there were a significant percentage more negative than positive responses. But even that isn't exactly hard evidence. The only thing you can claim with certainty is that since the majority of players don't post on the forums, we're all in the vocal minority.
Also I hate to break it to you, but being part of the Romulan Star Empire doesn't automatically make you an evil, vile terror.
As far as the Klingons experimenting on people, all you need to do is check out Enterprise episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence" where Uncle Phil forces Dr Phlox to experiment on Klingon prisoners. Also some would say the labour prison of Rura Penthe, working your prisoners to death, isn't exactly honorable.
With regard to saying "it's not like you have to play the romulan content" and "don't get why you seem to need to complain and whine about it", you need to stop with that. Firstly, that's what can be referred to as "thought terminating cliche" saying "you don't have to play it", that doesn't do anything to deal with the issue at hand, just tells people to effectively shut up. Not to mention that Cryptic wants us to play it. Secondly, with regard to "complain and whine", that's you just attempting to be insulting. If Cryptic decided that the Federation disbanded and all humans went to join the Maquis, would you tell the people upset over it that they were just "whining"? Also, I should point out a very important point: This forum is labeled as General Discussion and Feedback. We are giving our feedback about the major issues in the Romulan content. You seem to want us instead to say nothing, but that means Cryptic can't fix any problems they find because of our feedback. You seem to forget that people being critical of the content is an important part of the process. Also it's obvious there's a significant number of people upset with the direction, and that's something Cryptic needs to see when they're making their decisions on adjustments/content in the future.
they pose as Joe Forum User.
Sometimes its just "CANT WAIT TO BUY THAT!!!!" and then other times they will get more involved in threads/topics.
That's such a ridiculous red herring argument. First, the Federation is, essentially, the protagonist of "Star Trek". Second, the Maquis were an extreme fringe group with one pet issue. Dissatisfaction with the status quo was shown as rampant in the RSE. Third, the Romulan Republic is a natural progression of everything that has happened in Star Trek since the original series. The Maquis example could, at this point, come only from random whim. It's a completely apples-and-oranges comparison, at best.
Complaiming that Cryptic isn't telling the story you think they should tell isn't "feedback", it's just complaining. Feedback would be, "okay, I see the story you want to tell, here are the things that aren't working right now." Whereas most of you and yours are just going "I don't like this story, I demand you scrap everything to tell the story I want." So, since you'll never be happy with the story Cryptic is telling, the people saying "if you don't like it, don't play it" are correct.
And as for the argument that the RSE is not the Tal Shiar - there would've been no RSE without the Tal Shiar. At best, the Tal Shiar was the apparatus by which the elites enforced their rule and held on to power; at worst, the Tal Shiar was running things. That is the way of ALL secret police forces. Sure, the RSE could theoretically disband the Tal Shiar, but it would just be replaced by some other secret police force - the same monster with a different name.
Also dont forget that obesek misspelled i know is a terrorist him self and you help him:p
As others have pointed out, did you read the original post?
As far as the Maquis, I think it's rather apt. A great quadrant-spanning power is arbitrarily crippled and so the survivors become rebel terrorists fighting for a cause that one doesn't exactly associate with the personality of the species. But you stumbled upon one of the major points, almost everyone would be up in arms if that's what happened to the federation because they're the "protagonist" of the IP. However, since Romulans aren't the favored group of the majority, those of us who do favor the RSE are told to 'shut up and stop whining' when we object to them being destroyed. If it were the Federation being seriously overhauled and changed to something quite different, do you think people would stand for us saying to 'shut up and stop whining' or 'if you don't like it don't play it'? I think not.
There's actually a really good example of how the Tal Shiar and the RSE are somewhat independent of each other. Remember in Deep Space 9, Enabran Tain took a fleet comprised of ships of the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar across the wormhole to fight the Dominion? That was in 2371. The Romulans entered into a nonaggression pact with the Dominion that lasted years I believe, and the Romulan Star Empire as a whole did not suffer at the loss of those Tal Shiar ships. It was only in 2374 that the Romulan Star Empire, not the Tal Shiar, declared war on the Dominion and joined the Federation / Klingons. There's certainly any number of ways the story could have spun with players as the RSE citizens/military without having them be Tal Shiar. Although, while we're on the subject, some people might point to the Klingons as "monsters" much the same way you point the finger at the Tal Shiar. Yet we're all happy to have Klingons as a playable faction. Funny, isn't it?
this^^^^^^^^^^^^^ with this
By the 24th century, the government of Romulus was dependent upon the Tal Shiar, the Romulan secret police, to maintain order and stability among both civilians and the military. The Tal Shiar was known for its brutal tactics, which included routine kidnapping, torture, and assassination. Many Romulans fear even expressing dissenting opinions as not to spark the interest of the Tal Shiar. There were also indications that tension existed between the military and the Tal Shiar. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy")
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan
and this
The Tal Shiar reports only to the highest levels of the Romulan government, and even so they undertake many missions without the direct knowledge of the Romulan Senate, conducting operations with virtual impunity throughout the Empire. Their authority supersedes that of most Romulan military commanders, resulting in a mutual distrust and hatred between the two organizations. The Tal Shiar operates their own fleet, often to their own aims. (TNG: "Face of the Enemy"; DS9: "The Die is Cast")
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tal_Shiar
system Lord Baal is dead
Real good argument that the RSE is independent of the Tal Shiar, or that every Romulan loved their autocratic, oppressive government, you've got there.
I mean, seriously. The above examples show exactly what I was talking about: the Romulan government was either dependent on the Tal Shiar to quell dissent and stay in power, or the Tal Shiar was basically running things and able to act with impunity. Either way the Romulan Star Empire as shown in TNG was inextricably tied with the Tal Shiar, as the above posts have so thoughtfully showcased.
At any rate, my main point still stands: none of this has anything to do with providing feedback for the story Cryptic has actually written; it's just a lot of griping that isn't remotely useful.
You to have missed this part:P It would have been a good story arc allowing you to be in the military rather than some rebel.
And again the OP did indeed provide feedback.
The far more likely scenario, in my view, would be that the Tal Shiar would be taking advantage of the chaos following Hobus to consolidate their grip on the Empire, removing any inconvenient officers with old-fashioned notions like "freedom" or "serving the Fleet, not Hakeev". You know, kind of like the way Stalin used the post-WWII chaos to tighten the Soviet Union's grip on its territory, and eliminate opposition to the KBG's effective rule...