Unlimited torps is a problem? Do YOU really want to be heading back to spacedock/Quo'nos everytime you finish a battle to stock up, and spend more EC? No thanks!
Sadly over the years the veil of Star Trek kept getting slimmer and slimmer until it vanished.
This isnt a complaint thread about no exploration, that is only a small lacking subject.
the following drains this game of trek.
Lockbox ships without description as to how they were allowed to be flown by their respective factions.
Ships are nothing more than cheap comodities, you recieve ships like you get a car. this is wrong, in starfleet/kdf they assign ships to you. I know this cant be fixed, but it can feel better if they go through a little animation instead of a "you just bought this ship" popup. something that shows the ship being given to you by an admiral then pans out to the shipyards where the ship launches and done.
ADMIRALS!!!!! we have admirals, this is WAY wrong. we should only have captains with varying degrees, no admirals that is canon failures. (as for that future Boff ship team thingy, just call it the fleet captains initiative and have it as a special path for people to choose in skills)
multiple beams these have to be fixed, I don't mind some extra beams firing in either a 1-3 ratio on random sequences, but seriously I've only seen a multi beam shot once in DS9 that's it.
unlimited torpedos,....self explanitory.
I know this is a holodeck simulation but that is a weaksauce excuse, I would much wrather have captains as top level, and have commander as the captain-ra slot-up.
I know I know, it's not gonna happen, but still.
This is a video game. Canon must necessarily be compromised to some degree for game play and game mechanics. Suspend your disbelief and enjoy it or move on.
This game is about as Trek as a MMO that will appeal to a wide selection of gamers will be. Sure they could make it into a Star Trek Life simulator but who would play that??? The hard core star trek fans...and then we'd have nothing. Is this game perfect...by all means no. It's not because of canon breaking anything. It's because Star Trek and MMO's don't fit together....not perfectly.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Trek is about travelling somewhere to do something, maybe you settle a dispute, maybe do some science, maybe fight a baddie, but you go there and you do it
STO episodes about shoot some baddies then run a little story and shoot more baddies. STO post-episodal gameplay is about rapid-spawn one of a few dungeon maps over and over and over and over and over with no penalty. well, alright, maybe you run out of large hypo before the clock runs out, but I bet some of the players here are plotting for ways to remove that too.
STO isnt Trek, nothing at all like it, wrong pace and style altogether.
I find it a lot closer than you do. My experience is more like this:
Initial dialog and setting back story.
Encounter in space, sometimes as simple as arriving, sometimes combat, sometimes scanning or reparing stuff.
Encounters on the ground, sometimes dialog, sometimes combat, sometimes scanning stuff, usually a mix of all three.
Return to space for a big fight.
closing dialog.
Except for the fact there's a ton more combat, lot less drama, and the combat we have is very different than the combat in the show with it's 1-hit-kill damage system and emphasis on accuracy and cover, it's got mostly the same flow.
"I've been in Star Fleet for 10 years and I am a Lt. and propulsion assistant."
"Jesus H Christ...why so long with no promotions?"
"The Captain refuses to be promoted, the first officer who should get promoted and go captain his own ship refuses to leave because he likes the ship and crew...and because the Captain loves this crew so much he takes us with him...so I am a Lt. propulsion assistant."
Some TNG facts for you then
The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D launched in 2363, and commissioned in 2364 under the command of Captain Jean luc Picard.
At the time of its launch, the main cast consisted of:
Captain Jean luc Picard
Commander William T. Riker
(Commander) Dr. Beverly Crusher
Lieutenant Commander Data
(Lieutenant Commander) Counselor Deanna Troi
Lieutenant Tasha Yar
Lieutenant, Junior Grade Worf
Lieutenant, Junior Grade Geordi La Forge
At the time of Nemesis in 2379 (roughly 16 years later), the main cast consisted of:
Captain Jean luc Picard
Commander William T. Riker (having JUST accepted command of the Titan)
(Commander) Dr. Beverly Crusher
Commander Geordi La Forge
Lieutenant Commander Data
(Commander) Counselor Deanna Troi
Lieutenant Commander Worf
So, out of those cast members,
- Picard, Crusher, and Data never received promotions in 16 years.
- Riker was briefly promoted to Captain a couple times during the series, but basically stayed Commander for most of that 16 years.
- Deanna Troi received a one-grade promotion from Lieutenant Commander to Commander
- Geordi La Forge received a promotion to full Lieutenant in Season 3, and another promotion to Lieutenant Commander later on, and finally a promotion to Commander at the end of Nemesis.
- Worf received a promotion to full Lieutenant also in Season 3, and finally promoted to Lieutenant Commander at the beginning of Generations.
- Tasha died a meaningless death that continues to anger those who loved her to this day.
So yeah, some crews stay together a long time... the TNG crew stayed mostly together a total of 16 consecutive years, even transcending a starship.
First, for the ones who think admirals shouldn't command ships...
I can point to about a half dozen flag offciers who are outright commanders of a ship.
Notable examples inculde
James T. Kirk (Rear Admiral, upper half, remained in commander of the Enterprise after the V'ger incident)
Nope, Decker was captain of the Enterprise for TMP and then Spock was captain of the Enterprise at the beginning of Wrath of Khan; Kirk only took command as senior officer aboard once the ship went "active duty" in both. There was a whole scene dedicated to this: you know, "I have no ego to bruise" and all that.
Then they stole the Enterprise, so for all intents and purposes for the duration of Search for Spock and The Voyage Home Kirk was a pirate captain. Then he was demoted to captain and given command of the new Enterprise for the rest of the TOS movies. Again there was a big scene explaining that: "demoted in rank and assigned those duties for which he's so awesome", to paraphrase.
Its a mute point really.The decisions that lead to STO being like this were made years ago way past what can be changed now.
Star Trek has always been about how the crew of the ship/station handle with the latest thing and alot of the best storys have been about the crew (Many of Worfs stories for example)
The trouble is that was never possible in a MMO.
I always wanted more mini games around science, engineering and tactical. Not the silly sensor thing with anomalies, but stuff like decrypting, repairing, re routing (reversing the polarity)etc.
As it is BOs are just pets with no personality and I cant see that changing not because they dont want to but because its just not possible.
You can do it in a game like mass effect, dragon age or sw tor as there are very limited choices in their party members (BOs) and because of that they can have detailed back stories.
Cryptic just cant do that for the hundreds of possible BOs, nobody could.
The combat is what you make of it tbh, I dont mind it because it reminds me of Starfleet Command 3 (With BO powers).
End of the day its a game, and it wasnt great at the start (Who remembers levelling with frigging patrol missions when there were no featured episodes) but I like where its going.
Except for lock boxes... lol
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,559Community Moderator
edited May 2013
If you don't want to be an Admiral... don't show Admiral on your uniform! I stopped updating my uniform when I hit Captain.
Sadly over the years the veil of Star Trek kept getting slimmer and slimmer until it vanished.
This isnt a complaint thread about no exploration, that is only a small lacking subject.
the following drains this game of trek.
Lockbox ships without description as to how they were allowed to be flown by their respective factions.
Ships are nothing more than cheap comodities, you recieve ships like you get a car. this is wrong, in starfleet/kdf they assign ships to you. I know this cant be fixed, but it can feel better if they go through a little animation instead of a "you just bought this ship" popup. something that shows the ship being given to you by an admiral then pans out to the shipyards where the ship launches and done.
ADMIRALS!!!!! we have admirals, this is WAY wrong. we should only have captains with varying degrees, no admirals that is a canon failures. (as for that future Boff ship team thingy, just call it the fleet captains initiative and have it as a special path for people to choose in skills)
multiple beams these have to be fixed, I don't mind some extra beams firing in either a 1-3 ratio on random sequences, but seriously I've only seen a multi beam shot once in DS9 that's it.
unlimited torpedos,....self explanitory.
I know this is a holodeck simulation but that is a weaksauce excuse, I would much wrather have captains as top level, and have commander as the captain-ra slot-up.
I understand that you (we all) want to feel like we are truly in Starfleet but it cannot be JUST exploration and meeting the challenges involved. Players want more than that.
People need goals, progression and rewards to keep their interest and keep coming back. Games need to have these mechanics and content to keep the players coming back but it also has to have revenue to continue to produce and maintain this cycle. People are needed to make the content, who want to have a home, food and games to play.
I'm sorry but the only way to get the true Trek that you are asking for is on TV, books and (sometimes) movies... unless you can find a way to get rid of the need for money/ exchange.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Nope, Decker was captain of the Enterprise for TMP and then Spock was captain of the Enterprise at the beginning of Wrath of Khan; Kirk only took command as senior officer aboard once the ship went "active duty" in both. There was a whole scene dedicated to this: you know, "I have no ego to bruise" and all that.
Then they stole the Enterprise, so for all intents and purposes for the duration of Search for Spock and The Voyage Home Kirk was a pirate captain. Then he was demoted to captain and given command of the new Enterprise for the rest of the TOS movies. Again there was a big scene explaining that: "demoted in rank and assigned those duties for which he's so awesome", to paraphrase.
While Decker was the Captain he got demoted and Kirk took command. Admiral Kirk commanded the ship for the majority of the movie. In fact when questioning his taking command they mention that he is unfamiliar with the ship and crew...not that admirals don't take command of ships.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Primary issue I see here is that an Ensign taking command of a ship makes even less sense than an equally wet-behind-the-ears Lieutenant.
To paraphrase O'Brien talking to Nog: If you're in command as an Ensign, there's going to be nobody left alive to call you "Captain".
Very true, but Starfleet has taken a major beating with all of the conflicts recently. Look at the ships we start off with in the lower tiers, they're obviously pulling every ship out of mothballs that they can to divert newer/more powerful ships to the hot zones. Because of the personnel shortage it's not completely unbelievable if it was working into the storyline that you're being given a re-commissioned ship to help with local system patrols.
Its a mute point really.The decisions that lead to STO being like this were made years ago way past what can be changed now.
Star Trek has always been about how the crew of the ship/station handle with the latest thing and alot of the best storys have been about the crew (Many of Worfs stories for example)
The trouble is that was never possible in a MMO.
I always wanted more mini games around science, engineering and tactical. Not the silly sensor thing with anomalies, but stuff like decrypting, repairing, re routing (reversing the polarity)etc.
The combat is what you make of it tbh, I dont mind it because it reminds me of Starfleet Command 3 (With BO powers).
End of the day its a game, and it wasnt great at the start (Who remembers levelling with frigging patrol missions when there were no featured episodes) but I like where its going.
Except for lock boxes... lol
Firstly, it is a moot point not a mute point lol.
I agree with you though on the points you are making but for me what is more UnTrek about the game is the fact that you are supposedly in Starfleet but you do not act like it at all. You have no uniform code. You go around killing everything that moves. You can fly any ship out there even blatant enemy alien ships and even a FREIGHTER (Remember the Starfleet Admiral who flew a Freighter? Or the Captain? No you do not.).
If they would just make it so that you are a freelance mercenary NOT a real Starfleet Officer then it would make a lot more sense.
Nobody is stopping you from equiping 1 phaser beam array and 3 photons or quantums both fore and aft. Yoour ship will look pretty cannon like that and the 3 torps fore and aft will fire at a rate seen on the shows.
I agree with you though on the points you are making but for me what is more UnTrek about the game is the fact that you are supposedly in Starfleet but you do not act like it at all. You have no uniform code. You go around killing everything that moves. You can fly any ship out there even blatant enemy alien ships and even a FREIGHTER (Remember the Starfleet Admiral who flew a Freighter? Or the Captain? No you do not.).
If they would just make it so that you are a freelance mercenary NOT a real Starfleet Officer then it would make a lot more sense.
again there are things that have to be laxed because this is an MMO...people who play MMO's like to have a variety with their characters...few people would play this game if everyone wore the same thing as everyone else. Even in the series though not everyone wore the same thing...Kirk wore a shirt different from everyone else, so did McCoy, Troi and Dr. Crusher wore different uniforms than their crews, the DS9 crew didnt wear the same uniform as TNG crew and the Voyager crew was different than the DS9 uniforms.
I do remember a star fleet officer commanding a BOP.
Sisko piloted a bajorian space ship
Riker was once named the first offcier of a BOP
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Sadly over the years the veil of Star Trek kept getting slimmer and slimmer until it vanished.
This isnt a complaint thread about no exploration, that is only a small lacking subject.
the following drains this game of trek.
Lockbox ships without description as to how they were allowed to be flown by their respective factions.
Ships are nothing more than cheap comodities, you recieve ships like you get a car. this is wrong, in starfleet/kdf they assign ships to you. I know this cant be fixed, but it can feel better if they go through a little animation instead of a "you just bought this ship" popup. something that shows the ship being given to you by an admiral then pans out to the shipyards where the ship launches and done.
ADMIRALS!!!!! we have admirals, this is WAY wrong. we should only have captains with varying degrees, no admirals that is a canon failures. (as for that future Boff ship team thingy, just call it the fleet captains initiative and have it as a special path for people to choose in skills)
multiple beams these have to be fixed, I don't mind some extra beams firing in either a 1-3 ratio on random sequences, but seriously I've only seen a multi beam shot once in DS9 that's it.
unlimited torpedos,....self explanitory.
I know this is a holodeck simulation but that is a weaksauce excuse, I would much wrather have captains as top level, and have commander as the captain-ra slot-up.
Very true, but Starfleet has taken a major beating with all of the conflicts recently. Look at the ships we start off with in the lower tiers, they're obviously pulling every ship out of mothballs that they can to divert newer/more powerful ships to the hot zones.
That's the explanation I invoked in one of my Literary Challenge stories about Commander Grunt, to explain why so many senior officers are scooting around the stars in commandeered Breen and Jem'Hadar ships - the good ones are sent to the front lines, the lesser ones (like his previous ships, the more-or-less-Miranda-class USS Hypatia and the severely-outdated cruiser USS Bastogne) are given to junior officers who are still proving themselves as commanders.
There are some mods to Freelancer that demonstrate it is possible. Ships have full 3D flight, you aim and time your weapons fire, you dock at a starbase to change ship equipment and resupply, there are complex trade routes, multifaction alliances, and so on. The game engine is very old and cannot be made to support more than 200 simultaneous players, but that is still more than STO supports in each of the combat zones.
People come here for two reasons: STAR and TREK. Without that STO would be one of the thousands of other deadweight f2p games.
In both cases, I think you mistaking game engine limits with technology limits. Cryptic could have the tech for more players together and for true 3D flight.
In both cases, the engine doesn't support it. Not because it is old or incapable. But because the devs won't to cater to players who don't think in 3D and who run systems and internet connections that can't support 200 other players.
With an unlimited tech budget and a brand new engine, Cryptic would disallow true 3D flight and unlimited instance populations. That is not a style of gameplay that they're interested in making or marketing. And virtually no sane person that makes MMOs would because what you're asking for would have to be something other than an MMO.
You MIGHT see some room to negotiate on the unlimited instance sizes if it meant DOWNGRADING the engine and art to support more characters at once and it meant separate servers with population caps.
If Cryptic knew that no more than 5% of the population will visit ESD at a time ordinarily, they could make the call to have open world/no instance caps if they allowed 4000 players per server. Net result is still 200 players there. And then if loads are high, they split the server. That's basically how games without instance caps do it.
Now, I'm not totally sold on Cryptic's sharding vs. servers. I think an inbetween option would be good. Sharding but defaulted to a certain instance everywhere you go so that you always see people on the same "Frequency" as you. And you can adjust this but it would make instance placement predictable.
I'd also allow for fleet run or hosted "Frequencies" that require an invite. So if you have a bunch of likeminded TOS roleplayers, they start a TOS Frequency that is invite only. You only see other people on that frequency in zones. A rule for participating is wearing TOS costumes.
Associated with this, you'd have Frequency Moderation tools for the founder and a paid cost to start up a frequency that is relatively high.
And some events only happen in Cryptic run public Frequencies. (Which you could transfer to like with shards.)
One thing with "Frequencies" that might be cool could be to allow the moderator(s) to recostume NPCs, add some features, and possibly relocate the default location for fleet starbases.
Basically using shards and defaulting people to a selected shard to simulate the server or even some of the private server experience of other MMOs.
Figured this game's apologists would jump all over the OP, and indeed they have. But this game does have serious, serious issues in depicting Star Trek combat. It's closer to Star Wars, IMO, with nimble, small ships dominating this game.
In terms of immersion and the game having a more Star Trek feel to it, the OP is quite correct for most parts.
YT: DS9 Battles w/ no crappy music
DS9 should be used as a major benchmark for the depiction of "modern" Star Trek ship combat. Because frankly, it was the only ST series that had so much combat. Can't really use TOS/TMP samples because there was a major shift in how ships moved and fought when TNG came out.
The OP *is* correct in how weapons are portrayed. Single beams are the standard. From something like the Galaxy class and Sovereigns, to even the Jem'Hadar Bugship. Cannons were not the norm. Very few classes actually used cannons, and only 1 faction in the quadrant actually used them to a regular degree. The Defiant classes were it for Starfleet, not counting those flying sacrificial lambs called "Peregrines." Only the Bugship used cannons for the Dominion, and it also had single beams equipped. The Klingons? They were the only ones to actually use them on a fairly regularly basis. Birds of Prey and even the Vor'Cha used them. You'll also notice that the Klingon warships never shoot beams to the side. They were all forward focused, with some aft also.
Torpedoes - Not quite agreeing with limited torpedoes until resupplying somewhere. However, I want to say that Torpedoes in Star Trek were not niche weapons for only a specific task to be only used once shields were down. Torpedoes were the most powerful and preferred weapon in any situation in Star Trek. Torpedo hits were bad in any situation for the ship that got hit, even with shields up. But no ship flinged torpedoes like it was candy either. They had limited amounts onboard, and no ship was firing torpedoes every second or so.
Side note: Cruisers are the backbone of all the navies of Star Trek. Not little patrol ships and such, but Cruisers.
OP's not regarding PC Admirals / Generals in STO is spot on and has been mentioned as being wrong for the game. The game should not be filled with Admirals. The game should be filled with, at max level, CAPTAINS. Admirals IRL and for most of Star Trek were there for leadership positions of large formations of ships. Only Kirk bucked that trend, but he wasn't the original commanding officer of the Enterprise when it began its voyage in TWOK... it was Spock who was her Captain, but Kirk fell into charge for the crisis and was going to end upon return. For STO, IMHO, only Fleet Leaders should be able to wear the rank of VAdm or LtGen. There should be limited rank appointments of the lower grades of Admirals & Generals to signify the Fleet's assistant leadership. And it should be only Admirals / Generals that get to wear the special uniform items for those ranks.
Lockbox ships - Ships belonging to a specific faction need to stay with that faction. Because looking around STO, it looks like a clashing hodgepodge of randomness regardless if playing the Federation or Klingon Empire.
again there are things that have to be laxed because this is an MMO...people who play MMO's like to have a variety with their characters...few people would play this game if everyone wore the same thing as everyone else. Even in the series though not everyone wore the same thing...Kirk wore a shirt different from everyone else, so did McCoy, Troi and Dr. Crusher wore different uniforms than their crews, the DS9 crew didnt wear the same uniform as TNG crew and the Voyager crew was different than the DS9 uniforms.
jeez he's not talking about the uniform clothing, he's talking about the UCC Uniform Code of Conduct
and at least half the people saying "nobody would play" has any experience with anything like it
In till someone else manages to make another Star Trek MMO, that isn't complete garbage. I'd say we are pretty lucky with how this game turned out, considering most Star Trek games don't make it very far. Canon wouldn't make this MMO any better, if anything it could make it worse.
I however do agree with the ranking idea to a certain degree, or in till they give us the Admiral ability to command other ships besides our own (Like a doff thing except with ships we have and outfit) and the play as your first officer option (So that our Admiral isn't in a unrealistic firefight that doesn't make sense for him/her to be in). Then being a Admiral would make a lot more sense.
What the heck are you talking about? The Romulan missions are straight up something that could have come out of the show, and the klingons are even more warrior-ey and klingon than they ever have been before.
You can do it in a game like mass effect, dragon age or sw tor as there are very limited choices in their party members (BOs) and because of that they can have detailed back stories.
Actually, Cryptic did do that for the new Romulan storyline in LoR. In fact, the Tovan Khev Boff can't be deleted (you can decide not to slot him anywhere; but as a Rom character you need to keep him as there ar storyline aspects that would not fit if he wasn't part of your crew.)
The overall response so far (based on forum post which may or may not be representative is that many players hate having a Boff slot 'locked' and feel all the Tovan Khevs that'll be running around on New Romulus will be 'immersion breaking. (And interesting you bring up SWToR as ALL the player companions of the various classes have the exact same name and backstory.)
But, my overall point - no matter what/how they do something, they'll never com close to pleasing everybody. But the STO team at Cryptic seem to be heading down a similar path as SWToR with regards to a lot of the newer story aspects. They aren't doing multiple storylines per class, but they definitely are trying to tell an overall story and progress it going forward from LoR.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,559Community Moderator
edited May 2013
In regards to the number of beams... anyone forget the scene from Nemesis where the Enterprise just sprays the area with beams hoping to land a hit on the Scimitar? I'm pretty sure that was more than one. And the NX class Enterprise fired 2 beams from the forward cannons. And then there's Best of Both Worlds episode of TNG, where the Enterprise opens up with more than one beam. Sure its from different emitters, but it was more than one.
The point is the reason most ships showed only one beam was because of limited technology for Special Effects. If they had the technology they have now... I'm sure we could see a Galaxy class just light up like the 4th of July with beams. So stating that ships MUST have only one beam... is kinda stupid.
As much as I just find this to be a bit "whiny", you did bring up a few good points:
Lockbox ships without description as to how they were allowed to be flown by their respective factions.
As a few previous repliers pointed out, the Feds and Klingons probably did suffer a bunch of ship losses after the Dominion War and had to resort to bringing back mothballed ships etc. But at least Cryptic did at the very least put an excuse as to why the ships were being used and they deserve credit for doing so (imo).
Ships are nothing more than cheap comodities, you recieve ships like you get a car. this is wrong, in starfleet/kdf they assign ships to you. I know this cant be fixed, but it can feel better
I do find this do be a little pet peeve of mine. But keep in mind that this is an MMO, and with that I don't see another way to distribute ships.
ADMIRALS!!!!! we have admirals, this is WAY wrong. we should only have captains with varying degrees, no admirals that is a canon failures
This is another small peeve of mine. However, I find those titles to be little side notes. I chose to keep the title of "Captain" and didn't change my uniform on most of my toons (sans a couple, but I made sure that their backstory and age were fitting for such a title).
multiple beams these have to be fixed, I don't mind some extra beams firing in either a 1-3 ratio on random sequences, but seriously I've only seen a multi beam shot once in DS9 that's it
I don't really know what to say about this one. I don't really see anything wrong with multiple beams so long as the ship has power to sustain it.
unlimited torpedos,....self explanitory.
I know that this would discourage a LOT of players, but I've always had a sick curiosity of what the game would be like if your torpedoes were limited (and since I use a pseudo torp boat on one of my toons, that will make things even more difficult for me...) or if you burn out a phaser relay or something to that extent. Space combat would be quite a bit harder for sure but at the same time, it would be much less enjoyable.
So yeah, STO isn't necessarily super attached to the canon, but so what? It's still a very good game in my opinion. Every game based on a series is bound to have its weak points and with a universe as expansive as Star Trek there is bound to be a LOT of missing pieces.
In regards to the number of beams... anyone forget the scene from Nemesis where the Enterprise just sprays the area with beams hoping to land a hit on the Scimitar? I'm pretty sure that was more than one. And the NX class Enterprise fired 2 beams from the forward cannons. And then there's Best of Both Worlds episode of TNG, where the Enterprise opens up with more than one beam. Sure its from different emitters, but it was more than one.
The point is the reason most ships showed only one beam was because of limited technology for Special Effects. If they had the technology they have now... I'm sure we could see a Galaxy class just light up like the 4th of July with beams. So stating that ships MUST have only one beam... is kinda stupid.
The Enterprise-E was in a sort of "Fire At Will" type of deal, just like the Enterprise-D did when swatting flies (fighters) in a LOL fashion.
But these are still single arrays, not Duals, which are extremely rare. Outside of TOS/TMP, I can't remember a single ship or scene where a Dual Beam was used. I know it's out there, but cannot remember. It's that rare in Star Trek.
As far as people wanting to throw Canon Star Trek out the window... Really? Are you guys serious? Why don't we implement Care Bears, X-Wings, and Star Destroyers and be done with it?
There's something called "gameplay and story segregation". STO is a case of this, the necessities of an MMO (levels, items available equally if you put the effort in) and being something that could appeal outside of hard core Trekkies (I don't consider myself a hardcore Trekkie, I enjoy science fiction of every flavor) which means bending the lore where it can flex.
If you don't enjoy it? Don't play. You aren't obligated to.
Now, the game could stand to be a bit more immersed in how you can layout your ship's gear, yes. But that is also Cryptic's design style, which again you don't have to play if you don't like it. Unless you put in RL money, there's no reason to stick around.
Trek is about travelling somewhere to do something, maybe you settle a dispute, maybe do some science, maybe fight a baddie, but you go there and you do it
STO episodes about shoot some baddies then run a little story and shoot more baddies. STO post-episodal gameplay is about rapid-spawn one of a few dungeon maps over and over and over and over and over with no penalty. well, alright, maybe you run out of large hypo before the clock runs out, but I bet some of the players here are plotting for ways to remove that too.
STO isnt Trek, nothing at all like it, wrong pace and style altogether.
Really? that's what you think Trek is?
What was Kirk doing in "The Neutral Zone"?
What was the Sisko doing in "Sacrifice of Angels"?
They were helping someone, but indirectly. Some of the fights in the TV show were very brutal, and to a certain extent, repetitive.... It's especially fun watching the TNG ep where the Ent-D explodes in the opening scene.
In the final analysis, I think your main issue is that watching something is very different from doing it. Fighting in something like the Dominion War would be tedious and suck horribly..... much like a semi-failed STF.
Comments
This is a video game. Canon must necessarily be compromised to some degree for game play and game mechanics. Suspend your disbelief and enjoy it or move on.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I find it a lot closer than you do. My experience is more like this:
Except for the fact there's a ton more combat, lot less drama, and the combat we have is very different than the combat in the show with it's 1-hit-kill damage system and emphasis on accuracy and cover, it's got mostly the same flow.
Some TNG facts for you then
The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D launched in 2363, and commissioned in 2364 under the command of Captain Jean luc Picard.
At the time of its launch, the main cast consisted of:
Captain Jean luc Picard
Commander William T. Riker
(Commander) Dr. Beverly Crusher
Lieutenant Commander Data
(Lieutenant Commander) Counselor Deanna Troi
Lieutenant Tasha Yar
Lieutenant, Junior Grade Worf
Lieutenant, Junior Grade Geordi La Forge
At the time of Nemesis in 2379 (roughly 16 years later), the main cast consisted of:
Captain Jean luc Picard
Commander William T. Riker (having JUST accepted command of the Titan)
(Commander) Dr. Beverly Crusher
Commander Geordi La Forge
Lieutenant Commander Data
(Commander) Counselor Deanna Troi
Lieutenant Commander Worf
So, out of those cast members,
- Picard, Crusher, and Data never received promotions in 16 years.
- Riker was briefly promoted to Captain a couple times during the series, but basically stayed Commander for most of that 16 years.
- Deanna Troi received a one-grade promotion from Lieutenant Commander to Commander
- Geordi La Forge received a promotion to full Lieutenant in Season 3, and another promotion to Lieutenant Commander later on, and finally a promotion to Commander at the end of Nemesis.
- Worf received a promotion to full Lieutenant also in Season 3, and finally promoted to Lieutenant Commander at the beginning of Generations.
- Tasha died a meaningless death that continues to anger those who loved her to this day.
So yeah, some crews stay together a long time... the TNG crew stayed mostly together a total of 16 consecutive years, even transcending a starship.
Nope, Decker was captain of the Enterprise for TMP and then Spock was captain of the Enterprise at the beginning of Wrath of Khan; Kirk only took command as senior officer aboard once the ship went "active duty" in both. There was a whole scene dedicated to this: you know, "I have no ego to bruise" and all that.
Then they stole the Enterprise, so for all intents and purposes for the duration of Search for Spock and The Voyage Home Kirk was a pirate captain. Then he was demoted to captain and given command of the new Enterprise for the rest of the TOS movies. Again there was a big scene explaining that: "demoted in rank and assigned those duties for which he's so awesome", to paraphrase.
This is the best Star Trek MMO I have ever played.
Until there is something to compare with like another Star Trek MMO.
Im not complaining.
Star Trek has always been about how the crew of the ship/station handle with the latest thing and alot of the best storys have been about the crew (Many of Worfs stories for example)
The trouble is that was never possible in a MMO.
I always wanted more mini games around science, engineering and tactical. Not the silly sensor thing with anomalies, but stuff like decrypting, repairing, re routing (reversing the polarity)etc.
As it is BOs are just pets with no personality and I cant see that changing not because they dont want to but because its just not possible.
You can do it in a game like mass effect, dragon age or sw tor as there are very limited choices in their party members (BOs) and because of that they can have detailed back stories.
Cryptic just cant do that for the hundreds of possible BOs, nobody could.
The combat is what you make of it tbh, I dont mind it because it reminds me of Starfleet Command 3 (With BO powers).
End of the day its a game, and it wasnt great at the start (Who remembers levelling with frigging patrol missions when there were no featured episodes) but I like where its going.
Except for lock boxes... lol
I understand that you (we all) want to feel like we are truly in Starfleet but it cannot be JUST exploration and meeting the challenges involved. Players want more than that.
People need goals, progression and rewards to keep their interest and keep coming back. Games need to have these mechanics and content to keep the players coming back but it also has to have revenue to continue to produce and maintain this cycle. People are needed to make the content, who want to have a home, food and games to play.
I'm sorry but the only way to get the true Trek that you are asking for is on TV, books and (sometimes) movies... unless you can find a way to get rid of the need for money/ exchange.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
While Decker was the Captain he got demoted and Kirk took command. Admiral Kirk commanded the ship for the majority of the movie. In fact when questioning his taking command they mention that he is unfamiliar with the ship and crew...not that admirals don't take command of ships.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Very true, but Starfleet has taken a major beating with all of the conflicts recently. Look at the ships we start off with in the lower tiers, they're obviously pulling every ship out of mothballs that they can to divert newer/more powerful ships to the hot zones. Because of the personnel shortage it's not completely unbelievable if it was working into the storyline that you're being given a re-commissioned ship to help with local system patrols.
Firstly, it is a moot point not a mute point lol.
I agree with you though on the points you are making but for me what is more UnTrek about the game is the fact that you are supposedly in Starfleet but you do not act like it at all. You have no uniform code. You go around killing everything that moves. You can fly any ship out there even blatant enemy alien ships and even a FREIGHTER (Remember the Starfleet Admiral who flew a Freighter? Or the Captain? No you do not.).
If they would just make it so that you are a freelance mercenary NOT a real Starfleet Officer then it would make a lot more sense.
again there are things that have to be laxed because this is an MMO...people who play MMO's like to have a variety with their characters...few people would play this game if everyone wore the same thing as everyone else. Even in the series though not everyone wore the same thing...Kirk wore a shirt different from everyone else, so did McCoy, Troi and Dr. Crusher wore different uniforms than their crews, the DS9 crew didnt wear the same uniform as TNG crew and the Voyager crew was different than the DS9 uniforms.
I do remember a star fleet officer commanding a BOP.
Sisko piloted a bajorian space ship
Riker was once named the first offcier of a BOP
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
STO isnt canon but everyone except you likes it..problem fanboy?
You mad bro?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VXacYLcjGA
In both cases, I think you mistaking game engine limits with technology limits. Cryptic could have the tech for more players together and for true 3D flight.
In both cases, the engine doesn't support it. Not because it is old or incapable. But because the devs won't to cater to players who don't think in 3D and who run systems and internet connections that can't support 200 other players.
With an unlimited tech budget and a brand new engine, Cryptic would disallow true 3D flight and unlimited instance populations. That is not a style of gameplay that they're interested in making or marketing. And virtually no sane person that makes MMOs would because what you're asking for would have to be something other than an MMO.
You MIGHT see some room to negotiate on the unlimited instance sizes if it meant DOWNGRADING the engine and art to support more characters at once and it meant separate servers with population caps.
If Cryptic knew that no more than 5% of the population will visit ESD at a time ordinarily, they could make the call to have open world/no instance caps if they allowed 4000 players per server. Net result is still 200 players there. And then if loads are high, they split the server. That's basically how games without instance caps do it.
Now, I'm not totally sold on Cryptic's sharding vs. servers. I think an inbetween option would be good. Sharding but defaulted to a certain instance everywhere you go so that you always see people on the same "Frequency" as you. And you can adjust this but it would make instance placement predictable.
I'd also allow for fleet run or hosted "Frequencies" that require an invite. So if you have a bunch of likeminded TOS roleplayers, they start a TOS Frequency that is invite only. You only see other people on that frequency in zones. A rule for participating is wearing TOS costumes.
Associated with this, you'd have Frequency Moderation tools for the founder and a paid cost to start up a frequency that is relatively high.
And some events only happen in Cryptic run public Frequencies. (Which you could transfer to like with shards.)
Basically using shards and defaulting people to a selected shard to simulate the server or even some of the private server experience of other MMOs.
In terms of immersion and the game having a more Star Trek feel to it, the OP is quite correct for most parts.
YT: DS9 Battles w/ no crappy music
DS9 should be used as a major benchmark for the depiction of "modern" Star Trek ship combat. Because frankly, it was the only ST series that had so much combat. Can't really use TOS/TMP samples because there was a major shift in how ships moved and fought when TNG came out.
The OP *is* correct in how weapons are portrayed. Single beams are the standard. From something like the Galaxy class and Sovereigns, to even the Jem'Hadar Bugship. Cannons were not the norm. Very few classes actually used cannons, and only 1 faction in the quadrant actually used them to a regular degree. The Defiant classes were it for Starfleet, not counting those flying sacrificial lambs called "Peregrines." Only the Bugship used cannons for the Dominion, and it also had single beams equipped. The Klingons? They were the only ones to actually use them on a fairly regularly basis. Birds of Prey and even the Vor'Cha used them. You'll also notice that the Klingon warships never shoot beams to the side. They were all forward focused, with some aft also.
Torpedoes - Not quite agreeing with limited torpedoes until resupplying somewhere. However, I want to say that Torpedoes in Star Trek were not niche weapons for only a specific task to be only used once shields were down. Torpedoes were the most powerful and preferred weapon in any situation in Star Trek. Torpedo hits were bad in any situation for the ship that got hit, even with shields up. But no ship flinged torpedoes like it was candy either. They had limited amounts onboard, and no ship was firing torpedoes every second or so.
Side note: Cruisers are the backbone of all the navies of Star Trek. Not little patrol ships and such, but Cruisers.
OP's not regarding PC Admirals / Generals in STO is spot on and has been mentioned as being wrong for the game. The game should not be filled with Admirals. The game should be filled with, at max level, CAPTAINS. Admirals IRL and for most of Star Trek were there for leadership positions of large formations of ships. Only Kirk bucked that trend, but he wasn't the original commanding officer of the Enterprise when it began its voyage in TWOK... it was Spock who was her Captain, but Kirk fell into charge for the crisis and was going to end upon return. For STO, IMHO, only Fleet Leaders should be able to wear the rank of VAdm or LtGen. There should be limited rank appointments of the lower grades of Admirals & Generals to signify the Fleet's assistant leadership. And it should be only Admirals / Generals that get to wear the special uniform items for those ranks.
Lockbox ships - Ships belonging to a specific faction need to stay with that faction. Because looking around STO, it looks like a clashing hodgepodge of randomness regardless if playing the Federation or Klingon Empire.
jeez he's not talking about the uniform clothing, he's talking about the UCC Uniform Code of Conduct
and at least half the people saying "nobody would play" has any experience with anything like it
I however do agree with the ranking idea to a certain degree, or in till they give us the Admiral ability to command other ships besides our own (Like a doff thing except with ships we have and outfit) and the play as your first officer option (So that our Admiral isn't in a unrealistic firefight that doesn't make sense for him/her to be in). Then being a Admiral would make a lot more sense.
Especially Rura Penthe. That was good.
Actually, Cryptic did do that for the new Romulan storyline in LoR. In fact, the Tovan Khev Boff can't be deleted (you can decide not to slot him anywhere; but as a Rom character you need to keep him as there ar storyline aspects that would not fit if he wasn't part of your crew.)
The overall response so far (based on forum post which may or may not be representative is that many players hate having a Boff slot 'locked' and feel all the Tovan Khevs that'll be running around on New Romulus will be 'immersion breaking. (And interesting you bring up SWToR as ALL the player companions of the various classes have the exact same name and backstory.)
But, my overall point - no matter what/how they do something, they'll never com close to pleasing everybody. But the STO team at Cryptic seem to be heading down a similar path as SWToR with regards to a lot of the newer story aspects. They aren't doing multiple storylines per class, but they definitely are trying to tell an overall story and progress it going forward from LoR.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The point is the reason most ships showed only one beam was because of limited technology for Special Effects. If they had the technology they have now... I'm sure we could see a Galaxy class just light up like the 4th of July with beams. So stating that ships MUST have only one beam... is kinda stupid.
Lockbox ships without description as to how they were allowed to be flown by their respective factions.
As a few previous repliers pointed out, the Feds and Klingons probably did suffer a bunch of ship losses after the Dominion War and had to resort to bringing back mothballed ships etc. But at least Cryptic did at the very least put an excuse as to why the ships were being used and they deserve credit for doing so (imo).
Ships are nothing more than cheap comodities, you recieve ships like you get a car. this is wrong, in starfleet/kdf they assign ships to you. I know this cant be fixed, but it can feel better
I do find this do be a little pet peeve of mine. But keep in mind that this is an MMO, and with that I don't see another way to distribute ships.
ADMIRALS!!!!! we have admirals, this is WAY wrong. we should only have captains with varying degrees, no admirals that is a canon failures
This is another small peeve of mine. However, I find those titles to be little side notes. I chose to keep the title of "Captain" and didn't change my uniform on most of my toons (sans a couple, but I made sure that their backstory and age were fitting for such a title).
multiple beams these have to be fixed, I don't mind some extra beams firing in either a 1-3 ratio on random sequences, but seriously I've only seen a multi beam shot once in DS9 that's it
I don't really know what to say about this one. I don't really see anything wrong with multiple beams so long as the ship has power to sustain it.
unlimited torpedos,....self explanitory.
I know that this would discourage a LOT of players, but I've always had a sick curiosity of what the game would be like if your torpedoes were limited (and since I use a pseudo torp boat on one of my toons, that will make things even more difficult for me...) or if you burn out a phaser relay or something to that extent. Space combat would be quite a bit harder for sure but at the same time, it would be much less enjoyable.
So yeah, STO isn't necessarily super attached to the canon, but so what? It's still a very good game in my opinion. Every game based on a series is bound to have its weak points and with a universe as expansive as Star Trek there is bound to be a LOT of missing pieces.
The Enterprise-E was in a sort of "Fire At Will" type of deal, just like the Enterprise-D did when swatting flies (fighters) in a LOL fashion.
But these are still single arrays, not Duals, which are extremely rare. Outside of TOS/TMP, I can't remember a single ship or scene where a Dual Beam was used. I know it's out there, but cannot remember. It's that rare in Star Trek.
As far as people wanting to throw Canon Star Trek out the window... Really? Are you guys serious? Why don't we implement Care Bears, X-Wings, and Star Destroyers and be done with it?
Also, Fighters are a joke in Star Trek (with Galaxy Class TRIBBLE for the fans out there)
If you don't enjoy it? Don't play. You aren't obligated to.
Now, the game could stand to be a bit more immersed in how you can layout your ship's gear, yes. But that is also Cryptic's design style, which again you don't have to play if you don't like it. Unless you put in RL money, there's no reason to stick around.
What was Kirk doing in "The Neutral Zone"?
What was the Sisko doing in "Sacrifice of Angels"?
They were helping someone, but indirectly. Some of the fights in the TV show were very brutal, and to a certain extent, repetitive.... It's especially fun watching the TNG ep where the Ent-D explodes in the opening scene.
In the final analysis, I think your main issue is that watching something is very different from doing it. Fighting in something like the Dominion War would be tedious and suck horribly..... much like a semi-failed STF.
My character Tsin'xing