What would be wrong with that, exactly? Trek didn't shy away from it.
Remember the Open Top costumes? All the women aren't wearing undershirts, all the men are? I say remake the male ones, let's have some torn shirts like Kirk up in here.
Why not give eye candy to both? A beach wear would be good for Risa.
Yeah, it would look wierd on all the strange oddly scaled aliens, but on lets say a vulcan or a human it would be okey.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Actually, I have a female Orion and one of her outfits is the skimpy set. BUT that is how Orion women dress. It fits in the Star Trek universe.
Almost entirely naked Borg characters do not.
Herein lies the difference in our positions. Yours of "get over it" leaves in place sexism. Inequality. Mine of "lets at least balance things out" makes no negative impact on yours and allows for equal treatment.
Social inertia is a difficult thing to overcome but it can be done.
Anyone who is a Star Trek fan should know that. The franchise lives and breaths it.
So should a game it is based upon.
Please take your skin coverage issues & exit the nearest airlock provided to you by a string of code. No one who ever decided to play a video game to take a vacation from reality ever expects it to exactly mirror their expectations from RL. Hence, I have no issues with the Borg showing skin. IMO, clothing for them serves no purpose & is utterly illogical to wear. They have no use for it. It would be most logical for them to be completely nude & have a few plates in place to hold what's left of the organic in. What you think of as skimpy, sexy, or trashy on a Borg, I find logical considering the species, and not worthy of your drum-beating. Ergo, get over it.
Please take your skin coverage issues & exit the nearest airlock provided to you by a string of code. No one who ever decided to play a video game to take a vacation from reality ever expects it to exactly mirror their exceptions from RL. Hence, I have no issues with the Borg showing skin. IMO, clothing for them serves no purpose & is utterly illogical to wear. They have no use for it. It would be most logical for them to be completely nude & have a few plates in place to hold what's left of the organic in. What you think of as skimpy, sexy, or trashy on a Borg, I find logical considering the species, and not worthy of your drum-beating. Ergo, get over it.
Well said. To the borg, cybernetics are clothing.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I don't think they were intended to be perceived as clothing, but they're enhancements made to the organic body to make it better & closer to the Borg's idea of perfect. Anyone who has the audacity to claim sexism on the part of the design of the Borg has to keep in mind that it's technically a smorgasbord of alien species making up an entirely different species, and that the resulting species (Borg) has no concept of modesty, or any other concept that shows specific cultural origin. IRL, modesty, as far as we know (until we make contact off-world, if ever feasible) is specific to humans. Star Trek Borg are no longer human, and therefore, that emotional aspect of modesty is useless.
Why make a big deal out of it? It is because the Borg are so mutilated from their former forms? I just do not understand this sexism line of thought whatsoever.
The liberated borg Captains can change uniforms but the bridge officer can only where borg skin BOFF.
what? borg BO's can wear a uniform. mine did for awhile. if yours won't do it I suggest reporting it as a bug
WOULD NOT HAVE SEX WITH A BORG.
LIES! I saw what you were doing with 7 of 9. you'll get a nasty case of 'collective clap' if you keep that up
Actually, I have a female Orion and one of her outfits is the skimpy set. BUT that is how Orion women dress. It fits in the Star Trek universe.
Almost entirely naked Borg characters do not.
what....? borg don't dress at all. they wear whatever they were wearing when they were assimilated. what about a borg orion?
Herein lies the difference in our positions. Yours of "get over it" leaves in place sexism. Inequality. Mine of "lets at least balance things out" makes no negative impact on yours and allows for equal treatment.
no. you're trying to create a problem where there isn't one. if you want to take that attitude then go protest affirmative action and stores that sell bikinis for women but not for men, regardless of whether men wear them or not. cause its the same thing that you're trying to rant about here.
What would be wrong with that, exactly? Trek didn't shy away from it.
in the context of this discussion, a double standard, thats what it would create.
What i want to know is where did he keep that Disruptor
much like where minsc kept boo while locked up in irenicus's dungeon.....some questions are better left unanswered
Please take your skin coverage issues & exit the nearest airlock provided to you by a string of code. No one who ever decided to play a video game to take a vacation from reality ever expects it to exactly mirror their expectations from RL. Hence, I have no issues with the Borg showing skin. IMO, clothing for them serves no purpose & is utterly illogical to wear. They have no use for it. It would be most logical for them to be completely nude & have a few plates in place to hold what's left of the organic in. What you think of as skimpy, sexy, or trashy on a Borg, I find logical considering the species, and not worthy of your drum-beating. Ergo, get over it.
this
I just do not understand this sexism line of thought whatsoever.
thats because there isn't one. the OP is trying to create a problem where there isn't one
The cannibal forum tribbles are at it again. pesky. cannibals. And the OP has opened a can of worms that is long overdue on the menu of discussion. This post of mine is sure to arrange the worms into even more controversial bite size pieces, bound to be misread, twisted and and used for fishbait. delicious :P
domvina, don't be dismayed by the haters.
I understand where the OP is coming from and I agree. I wrote about something similar a while back, except it was for players. Sexism in STO is promoted by both the game and players. Why else would an orion female be worth more than an orion male at the exchange or the doff system offer a female orion and not choice of either male or female for players if not for a degree of sexism. All this points to the implication men are a lower species of creature. Now if it were the opposite, PW would find itself digging out of a mountain of backlash, especially if feminists were to see it.
I'm sure someone at this point is bound to call me sexist- again, but as a male, I find the implication that the male is inferior and has no right to exist, hurtful and offensive. Surprise, we have feelings too! That ridiculous stereotype of men being macho madmen made of steel is the biggest bunch of bulloney since "binders full of women."
Men are highly sensitive individuals who want to be loved and cared for, and yes, sometimes feel sexy and desirable, just like a woman might. That does not make men TRIBBLE, that makes men human beings. Denying that part of ourselves makes men TRIBBLE and do myriads of other things we normally wouldn't do to be treated humanely. That's what everyone wants, both male and female. But in the quest for that, each gender has had to hurt the other. One abuses, the other takes revenge producing counter-revenge then backlash. By the time it's over millennia from now, there may be no genders left to produce anything remotely human. But that's another story. (If you want to learn more read The Second Sexism, by Professor David Benatar)
All these RL emotions and social inclinations and human natures, spills over to the game. And why not, the developers are human, the players are human. And because we're human, we have preferences. There would'nt be tons of male players using female toons if that were'nt the case. Some men like to see (scantily clad) women. Some men want to be scantily clad. Only natural. Which brings us to the OP's observation and wish for equal wear. And why not? Ask yourselves, why can some women toons wear bras and skimpy loincloths but males only bare chest with no bare leg shorts? The scientific answer to that leaves an insight into the dirty, double-sided nature of people. It's because socially and to the mind that's become accustomed to it, a male flaunting himself brings a subconcious offense reaction, a sort of combo ick/rage factor. By contrast, a female doing the same is considered more appealing than the male. Hence why on many American beaches, you don't see ordinary men commonly wearing speedos, but trouser-style beachwear; unlike europeans who have not been indoctrinated in the same way and have less feeling of unease viewing a scanty male form.
Not broken down enough? I can go further and explain why the male form brings a subconcious offense reaction, and therefore why developers may prefer not to offer equal costumization between genders, but I think I've already said more than enough for the forum tribbles to chew me to bits, after flaying me and stretching my hide over the burning hot sands of Vulcan.
*young man takes one last look at his sexy female boff before facing his doom. he can't help it, he's a passionate young man. "So young, so full of life. Dammit Jim, why did it have to be him?*
I just finished Hidden Agenda, Salvage Operations. This was my first time visiting a Borg vessel in STO. Funny how every female Borg on the ship was wearing only metal pasties and panties while the males were completely covered.
Seriously Cryptic? Seriously? You couldn't mix it up a bit? Some male Borg in metal boxers? Some female Borg fully armoured?
In the various TV series and movies both the male and female Borg were in full armour. Why the lowest common denominator play in-game?
You are aware People she hase a nickane DOMVINA... remove the V...you got Domina..o shes on her high horse alright.. I know darling you got use to spanking boys on your knees, but not all boys are submissive..:) some are alphas..so keep your temper..
So we don't ..discipline you..
hahhaha
Why make a big deal out of it? It is because the Borg are so mutilated from their former forms? I just do not understand this sexism line of thought whatsoever.
It's because ONLY the female Borg are thus "mutilated".
Again, I never, ever said to just "cover up" the female Borg. I said to "mix it up". Make some of the male Borg similarly "mutilated". Have some of the female Borg be as "mutilated free" as the male Borg.
Perhaps folks haven't played the mission so SPOILER ALERT!
The Borg on the Cube have been attacked and the Cube disabled. The Borg are all in alcoves in a regeneration cycle. Every. Single. Female. Borg. Is in a state of undress down to metal pasties and metal bikinis. Not. A. Single. Male. Borg. Is in the same state. They have the typical head-to-toe covering of cannon Borg.
That there are female Borg in a state of undress isn't what "ruffles my feathers". It's that not a single male Borg is in a similar state. Or that at least a few of the female Borg had managed to avoid being stripped. (Esp. the ones standing between two male Borg who were fully covered.)
It's an intentional and deliberate choice on Cryptic's part. Lore-wise the Borg wouldn't care if the entire crew were naked. It's the nature of the Borg. It's only the nature of the male Cryptic developers that make JUST the female Borg nearly naked. Every. Single. One.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some more grammar and spelling mistakes to go hunt down. ^.~
It's an intentional and deliberate choice on Cryptic's part. Lore-wise the Borg wouldn't care if the entire crew were naked. It's the nature of the Borg. It's only the nature of the male Cryptic developers that make JUST the female Borg nearly naked. Every. Single. One.
It's a marketing thing, if large #'s of female gamers played a game purely due to eye candy (in this case beefcake instead of T&A) they would design it. In the current market however such has not shown to sell more boxes, widgets, or wazoos to the female demographic. Guys however, are well...guys, oddly enough they will make purchases based purely on visual T & A. If/when that marketing trend changes you'll have sexual equality of your digital npc minions. But until the day a game like Scarlet blade, (with different art assets of course) targeted towards women, could get traction your more or less pissing in the wind.
The Borg on the Cube have been attacked and the Cube disabled. The Borg are all in alcoves in a regeneration cycle. Every. Single. Female. Borg. Is in a state of undress down to metal pasties and metal bikinis. Not. A. Single. Male. Borg. Is in the same state. They have the typical head-to-toe covering of cannon Borg.
I played it today, and I agree. Male Borg look like actual Borg, female Borg are wearing metal cups on their TRIBBLE and are nothing but cybernetics underneath, and it looks frankly ridiculous.
I mean c'mon, why would the Borg bother putting metal cups on their TRIBBLE, or dressing the women different at all? I can't imagine a large portion of the guys paying for this are into mutilated cyborg women. As the guy above me keeps mentioning, there's Scarlet Blade for that crowd.
thats because there isn't one. the OP is trying to create a problem where there isn't one
Well if there's no problem, why are you so worried about it? I mean, it's not like a bunch of gamer/sci-fi nerds are so pathetic and insecure that they'd object if a few pixels of imaginary pixellated ladyflesh gets covered up. After all, you're all rushing in to say that it's not a big deal. If it's not a big deal, why not change it? It's dumb looking.
I can't imagine the kind of person who'd even care if it was changed. What kind of man feels so threatened by women that they immediately shut down any attempt to change such a little thing, lest the evil feminists descend upon us with their castration knives? :rolleyes:
As the guy above me keeps mentioning, there's Scarlet Blade for that crowd.
huh? 1 statement = keeps mentioning?
As far as changing it 1 way or the other I could not possibly care less. My only point was that devoting art asset time to fix whatever the problem with TRIBBLE borg (cant remember I just shot them) means a deviation from other art projects. I simply don't see a change happening unless one or more of the following are an issue.
It's directly and blatantly offensive (since I cant even remember it I doubt it was hugely glaring)
It is an OP ability (with the power of female assets this is debatable:)
It mechanically affects gameplay in un-intended ways
If devoting resources to change the assets = higher revenue
I mean Christ it takes them over a yr. to do minor changes to uniforms and we're ******** and moaning about this?
As far as changing it 1 way or the other I could not possibly care less. My only point was that devoting art asset time to fix whatever the problem with TRIBBLE borg (cant remember I just shot them) means a deviation from other art projects.
Fine. Alternate solution: delete them and replace them with non-silly looking male Borg, or any non-silly looking female models that might be left over from anything else. I doubt virtually anyone notices or even cares about the gender of the drones they're blasting. I don't care if they're male or female, as long as they look like Borg.
That should be a content developer issue, not an art developer issue. Since they're already done with a huge load of content, and are going to be revising and bugfixing these new episodes anyway, that shouldn't be too tall an order.
EDIT:
Alternate solution 2: Use the perfectly fine (and not at all covered) female assimilated Romulan models from that mission in the Borg series. That would make plenty of sense for a cube discovered in Romulan space.
Alternate solution 3: slap some new ones together from the liberated Borg parts and paste them over the current ones. You could do this in the Foundry in < 1hr.
Fine. Alternate solution: delete them and replace them with non-silly looking male Borg, or any non-silly looking female models that might be left over from anything else. I doubt virtually anyone notices or even cares about the gender of the drones they're blasting. I don't care if they're male or female, as long as they look like Borg.
That should be a content developer issue, not an art developer issue. Since they're already done with a huge load of content, and are going to be revising and bugfixing these new episodes anyway, that shouldn't be too tall an order.
well that would be my take on it and just use already existing borg assets,
however the OP wanted borg in boxers wich imo is just as dumb as bimbo borg
As far as changing it 1 way or the other I could not possibly care less. My only point was that devoting art asset time to fix whatever the problem with TRIBBLE borg (cant remember I just shot them) means a deviation from other art projects. I simply don't see a change happening unless one or more of the following are an issue.
It's directly and blatantly offensive (since I cant even remember it I doubt it was hugely glaring)
It is an OP ability (with the power of female assets this is debatable:)
It mechanically affects gameplay in un-intended ways
If devoting resources to change the assets = higher revenue
I mean Christ it takes them over a yr. to do minor changes to uniforms and we're ******** and moaning about this?
I have to agree. I am more concerned about Romulans not having the fed long hair option. I want that pretty hair on my romulan.
That's what I want the developers to spend their time fixing, as its much more needed then adjusting borg dressing.
I do not care that OP does not like how borg npcs look.
Dont look at them, shoot them.
However I cant get the hairstyle I like, and I'm not the only one.
That's an issue that would impact way more people, and I would much rather have the devs spend resources fixing that.
The big point is, don not waste developer time on ridiculous issues that only 0.001% of the playerbase notices, and less cares about.
I dont care how npcs look in one mission. But it would be a waste of resources to fix it when they need to fix Devil's choice badly... That is way more important then hairstyles, and it makes this borg clothing issue utterly pointless and irrevelant.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I just finished Hidden Agenda, Salvage Operations. This was my first time visiting a Borg vessel in STO. Funny how every female Borg on the ship was wearing only metal pasties and panties while the males were completely covered.
Seriously Cryptic? Seriously? You couldn't mix it up a bit? Some male Borg in metal boxers? Some female Borg fully armoured?
In the various TV series and movies both the male and female Borg were in full armour. Why the lowest common denominator play in-game?
And the feminists are griping again!
The female Borg have been like that since the game launched.
There's a male exotic dancer in the seedy bar on Nimbus III. Probably was put in just to shut you people up.
I do not care that OP does not like how borg npcs look.
It's not a problem for you, so it shouldn't be a problem for anyone.
That's a fun game. Let's try it on you.
However I cant get the hairstyle I like, and I'm not the only one.
It's one character customization option out of hundreds, and there are plenty available already. Pick a hairstyle and deal, so they can work on fixing clipping issues instead, which are clearly more important because I said so.
Gee, that was a terrible argument on my part. All I did was go out of my way to step on your toes and try to forceably silence your opinion by shoving my own in there. That's not how player feedback is supposed to work! Since none of us are devs, we really can't say what is and isn't a development priority, after all. We don't have all the information.
It's almost like this entire line of discussion is just another way to silence the OP without being seen as a bunch of dudes acting all hyper-defensive because a girl started a thread with the word "sexist" in the title on a "man's" game forum, and it "ruffled your feathers" that she asked for a single tiny thing that would take a bare minimum amount of time or effort but would take away a "sexy" character model from a single mission where it stands out like a sore thumb if you actually stop and look at it.
But that's just crazy! Clearly, I am misunderstanding. So, let's drop it. Let me recontextualize this entire issue away from gender, because god forbid there exist a gaming forum that can touch that subject without it getting weird. I'm looking at you, "discipline" guy.
It's not a sexism issue. Forget sexism; it's a whole layer to this we don't even need to deal with. It's an environmental FX issue. The old Borg female models look bad standing next to the new, more canon ones.
I thought it looked completely silly and kind of ruined the mission for me a little. Not because it was "sexy", but because it clashed as horribly as any flickering texture I've seen in this game. I didn't file a ticket, but I think I might, because I honestly consider it a mistake to put those Borg right there where you can walk up and see them.
I don't care if they leave that exact same model in every other Borg mission in the game, as long as they're not part of the environment, standing perfectly still right next to far more canon looking Borg. They honestly work against the atmosphere they're trying to convey.
I don't think it'd take a tremendous amount of time to fix, I've proposed three low-effort fixes, and no, I don't think it's too much to just ask that Cryptic fix their environments, even if you think something else should be fixed first. That's what this forum's for.
I love the irony here assuming that everyone opposed to the OP's complaint are "dudes". As if females couldn't possibly be okay with how both sexes of the borg are physically portrayed.
What's your point? If there are actual women being upset that someone pointed out the terrible models, they'd be wrong, too.
They don't even have to change the models, just replace them with content already in the game that CBS has already approved of.
Personally I hope these complainers actually do something because the only thing that will happen as a result of any "negative" press they can generate is that it will attract more people into playing the game. Just like what happened when activist Terry Rakolta tried to get sponsors to boycott "Married with Children" during it's first year, but instead her protests gave the show the needed ratings boost that turned it into a huge success.
Who said anything about "negative press?"
But since you brought it up, maybe she could start a kickstarter to make a documentary about her opinion on sexism in Star Trek Online, wait for the "nice, totally not sexist guys" to threaten her with every horrible thing they can imagine, and then let that negative press help her rake in hundreds of thousands in donations from sympathetic normal people who are rightly disgusted with the entire affair, even if they don't particularly care about her opinion one way or the other.
I love the irony here assuming that everyone opposed to the OP's complaint are "dudes". As if females couldn't possibly be okay with how both sexes of the borg are physically portrayed.
Yeah, me too. Last time I checked, my junk matches the female stuff, not male.
I also find it hilarious & hypocritical that the OP seems to be OK with the Orion character she plays written as a barely clothed, hyper-sexualized culture, but oh noes, Borg boob plates is bad (which BTW, is not that different from a male Borg's pectoral plates to me, I recall seeing those somewhere before)
I personally think even if they went & changed up the males to mirror the females, people with an axe to grind would still come in to complain that the female Borg are sexist depictions. You can't please everyone, and you'll certainly never please certain mindset segments of the population where everything possible has some kind of offensiveness to it to them.
I like the Borg as they were in the shows. I like the Borg as they are in the game. I'll still like the Borg if they lop off the TRIBBLE entirely & mutilate them further. It doesn't matter what they look like to me, the Collective doesn't give a TRIBBLE if I like their appearance or not. They'd rather assimilate me than listen to a complaint about how they look.
Yeah, me too. Last time I checked, my junk matches the female stuff, not male.
And guess what? You're still wrong!
I also find it hilarious & hypocritical that the OP seems to be OK with the Orion character she plays written as a barely clothed, hyper-sexualized culture, but oh noes, Borg boob plates is bad
That's probably because you've completely (and possibly deliberately) missed the point.
I don't think the OP minds if you shove big, heaving bosoms on EVERY NPC, as long as it makes sense in context. Those last two words are key: in context. That's this really complicated idea that you sort of overlooked while building that strawman you're attacking, but it's sort of the entire point that she was getting at.
The Borg Swedish Bikini Brigade does not make sense in context. Orions, on the other hand, you expect to be mostly naked, so nobody is complaining about that. Even people who use scary words like "sexism" can enjoy green bikini women, both being them and looking at them! Neat!
If you can provide a canon reason why Borg drones would dress in Fredrick's of Romulus attire, by all means, pitch it. If it actually made sense, maybe nobody would care.
But for me, the real problem is still that we've got old 2009 models standing right next to spiffy 2011 canon models, right where the player can walk up and take a good look at them. It clashes horribly, and that's a problem. The Borg bikini girl just happens to be the worst of these in terms of clashing (she's not the only one I'd replace if I were an art dev) with the ones that look like they stepped right off the set of First Contact.
There's a thread on clashing carpet textures in DS9 on here, with a dev response. Let alone something like an NPC that's repeated dozens of times in a level.
I'd even settle for a better textured Borg lingerie model, if there was a console with a message about them having come from assimilating the Victora's Secret at the mall, or something.
I personally think even if they went & changed up the males to mirror the females, people with an axe to grind would still come in to complain that the female Borg are sexist depictions.
If she didn't put "sexist" in the title, we wouldn't have seven pages of people falling all over themselves to find reasons why Cryptic can't just replace them with better looking, more canon drones that are already in the game. But sure, she's the one with the axe.
ya'll still aren't explaining what benefit Cryptic/PWE/CBS gets out of redoing existing borg art assets. If you cant give an economic or PR relevant argument that will move them you guys are just wasting your breath.
If you modify your argument to replacing older female borg assets with the (non-offensive) borg assets that already exist in-game you'll have much better luck, than having a debate that's gonna resolve exactly nothing lol.
It was fun stirring the pot but it's gotten boring, later.
Comments
Is that Drake on the far right? :eek:
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Why not give eye candy to both? A beach wear would be good for Risa.
Yeah, it would look wierd on all the strange oddly scaled aliens, but on lets say a vulcan or a human it would be okey.
What i want to know is where did he keep that Disruptor
Can not unread....
Simply Irresistible
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Well said. To the borg, cybernetics are clothing.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Why make a big deal out of it? It is because the Borg are so mutilated from their former forms? I just do not understand this sexism line of thought whatsoever.
what? borg BO's can wear a uniform. mine did for awhile. if yours won't do it I suggest reporting it as a bug
LIES! I saw what you were doing with 7 of 9. you'll get a nasty case of 'collective clap' if you keep that up
what....? borg don't dress at all. they wear whatever they were wearing when they were assimilated. what about a borg orion?
no. you're trying to create a problem where there isn't one. if you want to take that attitude then go protest affirmative action and stores that sell bikinis for women but not for men, regardless of whether men wear them or not. cause its the same thing that you're trying to rant about here.
in the context of this discussion, a double standard, thats what it would create.
much like where minsc kept boo while locked up in irenicus's dungeon.....some questions are better left unanswered
this
thats because there isn't one. the OP is trying to create a problem where there isn't one
domvina, don't be dismayed by the haters.
I understand where the OP is coming from and I agree. I wrote about something similar a while back, except it was for players. Sexism in STO is promoted by both the game and players. Why else would an orion female be worth more than an orion male at the exchange or the doff system offer a female orion and not choice of either male or female for players if not for a degree of sexism. All this points to the implication men are a lower species of creature. Now if it were the opposite, PW would find itself digging out of a mountain of backlash, especially if feminists were to see it.
I'm sure someone at this point is bound to call me sexist- again, but as a male, I find the implication that the male is inferior and has no right to exist, hurtful and offensive. Surprise, we have feelings too! That ridiculous stereotype of men being macho madmen made of steel is the biggest bunch of bulloney since "binders full of women."
Men are highly sensitive individuals who want to be loved and cared for, and yes, sometimes feel sexy and desirable, just like a woman might. That does not make men TRIBBLE, that makes men human beings. Denying that part of ourselves makes men TRIBBLE and do myriads of other things we normally wouldn't do to be treated humanely. That's what everyone wants, both male and female. But in the quest for that, each gender has had to hurt the other. One abuses, the other takes revenge producing counter-revenge then backlash. By the time it's over millennia from now, there may be no genders left to produce anything remotely human. But that's another story. (If you want to learn more read The Second Sexism, by Professor David Benatar)
All these RL emotions and social inclinations and human natures, spills over to the game. And why not, the developers are human, the players are human. And because we're human, we have preferences. There would'nt be tons of male players using female toons if that were'nt the case. Some men like to see (scantily clad) women. Some men want to be scantily clad. Only natural. Which brings us to the OP's observation and wish for equal wear. And why not? Ask yourselves, why can some women toons wear bras and skimpy loincloths but males only bare chest with no bare leg shorts? The scientific answer to that leaves an insight into the dirty, double-sided nature of people. It's because socially and to the mind that's become accustomed to it, a male flaunting himself brings a subconcious offense reaction, a sort of combo ick/rage factor. By contrast, a female doing the same is considered more appealing than the male. Hence why on many American beaches, you don't see ordinary men commonly wearing speedos, but trouser-style beachwear; unlike europeans who have not been indoctrinated in the same way and have less feeling of unease viewing a scanty male form.
Not broken down enough? I can go further and explain why the male form brings a subconcious offense reaction, and therefore why developers may prefer not to offer equal costumization between genders, but I think I've already said more than enough for the forum tribbles to chew me to bits, after flaying me and stretching my hide over the burning hot sands of Vulcan.
*young man takes one last look at his sexy female boff before facing his doom. he can't help it, he's a passionate young man. "So young, so full of life. Dammit Jim, why did it have to be him?*
Cannibals, bone(r)-appetit!
The C-Store Female Liberated Borg Engineering Bridge Officer can be completely customized, just like every other BOff.
The Khitomer Accord Male Liberated Borg Science Bridge Officer cannot be customized at all.
You are aware People she hase a nickane DOMVINA...
So we don't ..discipline you..
hahhaha
It's because ONLY the female Borg are thus "mutilated".
Again, I never, ever said to just "cover up" the female Borg. I said to "mix it up". Make some of the male Borg similarly "mutilated". Have some of the female Borg be as "mutilated free" as the male Borg.
Perhaps folks haven't played the mission so SPOILER ALERT!
The Borg on the Cube have been attacked and the Cube disabled. The Borg are all in alcoves in a regeneration cycle. Every. Single. Female. Borg. Is in a state of undress down to metal pasties and metal bikinis. Not. A. Single. Male. Borg. Is in the same state. They have the typical head-to-toe covering of cannon Borg.
That there are female Borg in a state of undress isn't what "ruffles my feathers". It's that not a single male Borg is in a similar state. Or that at least a few of the female Borg had managed to avoid being stripped. (Esp. the ones standing between two male Borg who were fully covered.)
It's an intentional and deliberate choice on Cryptic's part. Lore-wise the Borg wouldn't care if the entire crew were naked. It's the nature of the Borg. It's only the nature of the male Cryptic developers that make JUST the female Borg nearly naked. Every. Single. One.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some more grammar and spelling mistakes to go hunt down. ^.~
It's a marketing thing, if large #'s of female gamers played a game purely due to eye candy (in this case beefcake instead of T&A) they would design it. In the current market however such has not shown to sell more boxes, widgets, or wazoos to the female demographic. Guys however, are well...guys, oddly enough they will make purchases based purely on visual T & A. If/when that marketing trend changes you'll have sexual equality of your digital npc minions. But until the day a game like Scarlet blade, (with different art assets of course) targeted towards women, could get traction your more or less pissing in the wind.
always go where the $ is.
I played it today, and I agree. Male Borg look like actual Borg, female Borg are wearing metal cups on their TRIBBLE and are nothing but cybernetics underneath, and it looks frankly ridiculous.
I mean c'mon, why would the Borg bother putting metal cups on their TRIBBLE, or dressing the women different at all? I can't imagine a large portion of the guys paying for this are into mutilated cyborg women. As the guy above me keeps mentioning, there's Scarlet Blade for that crowd.
Well if there's no problem, why are you so worried about it? I mean, it's not like a bunch of gamer/sci-fi nerds are so pathetic and insecure that they'd object if a few pixels of imaginary pixellated ladyflesh gets covered up. After all, you're all rushing in to say that it's not a big deal. If it's not a big deal, why not change it? It's dumb looking.
I can't imagine the kind of person who'd even care if it was changed. What kind of man feels so threatened by women that they immediately shut down any attempt to change such a little thing, lest the evil feminists descend upon us with their castration knives? :rolleyes:
As far as changing it 1 way or the other I could not possibly care less. My only point was that devoting art asset time to fix whatever the problem with TRIBBLE borg (cant remember I just shot them) means a deviation from other art projects. I simply don't see a change happening unless one or more of the following are an issue.
It's directly and blatantly offensive (since I cant even remember it I doubt it was hugely glaring)
It is an OP ability (with the power of female assets this is debatable:)
It mechanically affects gameplay in un-intended ways
If devoting resources to change the assets = higher revenue
I mean Christ it takes them over a yr. to do minor changes to uniforms and we're ******** and moaning about this?
Fine. Alternate solution: delete them and replace them with non-silly looking male Borg, or any non-silly looking female models that might be left over from anything else. I doubt virtually anyone notices or even cares about the gender of the drones they're blasting. I don't care if they're male or female, as long as they look like Borg.
That should be a content developer issue, not an art developer issue. Since they're already done with a huge load of content, and are going to be revising and bugfixing these new episodes anyway, that shouldn't be too tall an order.
EDIT:
Alternate solution 2: Use the perfectly fine (and not at all covered) female assimilated Romulan models from that mission in the Borg series. That would make plenty of sense for a cube discovered in Romulan space.
Alternate solution 3: slap some new ones together from the liberated Borg parts and paste them over the current ones. You could do this in the Foundry in < 1hr.
well that would be my take on it and just use already existing borg assets,
however the OP wanted borg in boxers wich imo is just as dumb as bimbo borg
I have to agree. I am more concerned about Romulans not having the fed long hair option. I want that pretty hair on my romulan.
That's what I want the developers to spend their time fixing, as its much more needed then adjusting borg dressing.
I do not care that OP does not like how borg npcs look.
Dont look at them, shoot them.
However I cant get the hairstyle I like, and I'm not the only one.
That's an issue that would impact way more people, and I would much rather have the devs spend resources fixing that.
The big point is, don not waste developer time on ridiculous issues that only 0.001% of the playerbase notices, and less cares about.
I dont care how npcs look in one mission. But it would be a waste of resources to fix it when they need to fix Devil's choice badly... That is way more important then hairstyles, and it makes this borg clothing issue utterly pointless and irrevelant.
And the feminists are griping again!
The female Borg have been like that since the game launched.
There's a male exotic dancer in the seedy bar on Nimbus III. Probably was put in just to shut you people up.
I dont mind the male dancers. Could we get such beachwear for a civilian unlock for all factions please?
My romulan would look stupid on Risa with a full uniform!
It's not a problem for you, so it shouldn't be a problem for anyone.
That's a fun game. Let's try it on you.
It's one character customization option out of hundreds, and there are plenty available already. Pick a hairstyle and deal, so they can work on fixing clipping issues instead, which are clearly more important because I said so.
Gee, that was a terrible argument on my part. All I did was go out of my way to step on your toes and try to forceably silence your opinion by shoving my own in there. That's not how player feedback is supposed to work! Since none of us are devs, we really can't say what is and isn't a development priority, after all. We don't have all the information.
It's almost like this entire line of discussion is just another way to silence the OP without being seen as a bunch of dudes acting all hyper-defensive because a girl started a thread with the word "sexist" in the title on a "man's" game forum, and it "ruffled your feathers" that she asked for a single tiny thing that would take a bare minimum amount of time or effort but would take away a "sexy" character model from a single mission where it stands out like a sore thumb if you actually stop and look at it.
But that's just crazy! Clearly, I am misunderstanding. So, let's drop it. Let me recontextualize this entire issue away from gender, because god forbid there exist a gaming forum that can touch that subject without it getting weird. I'm looking at you, "discipline" guy.
It's not a sexism issue. Forget sexism; it's a whole layer to this we don't even need to deal with. It's an environmental FX issue. The old Borg female models look bad standing next to the new, more canon ones.
I thought it looked completely silly and kind of ruined the mission for me a little. Not because it was "sexy", but because it clashed as horribly as any flickering texture I've seen in this game. I didn't file a ticket, but I think I might, because I honestly consider it a mistake to put those Borg right there where you can walk up and see them.
I don't care if they leave that exact same model in every other Borg mission in the game, as long as they're not part of the environment, standing perfectly still right next to far more canon looking Borg. They honestly work against the atmosphere they're trying to convey.
I don't think it'd take a tremendous amount of time to fix, I've proposed three low-effort fixes, and no, I don't think it's too much to just ask that Cryptic fix their environments, even if you think something else should be fixed first. That's what this forum's for.
What's your point? If there are actual women being upset that someone pointed out the terrible models, they'd be wrong, too.
They don't even have to change the models, just replace them with content already in the game that CBS has already approved of.
Who said anything about "negative press?"
But since you brought it up, maybe she could start a kickstarter to make a documentary about her opinion on sexism in Star Trek Online, wait for the "nice, totally not sexist guys" to threaten her with every horrible thing they can imagine, and then let that negative press help her rake in hundreds of thousands in donations from sympathetic normal people who are rightly disgusted with the entire affair, even if they don't particularly care about her opinion one way or the other.
Yeah, me too. Last time I checked, my junk matches the female stuff, not male.
I also find it hilarious & hypocritical that the OP seems to be OK with the Orion character she plays written as a barely clothed, hyper-sexualized culture, but oh noes, Borg boob plates is bad (which BTW, is not that different from a male Borg's pectoral plates to me, I recall seeing those somewhere before)
I personally think even if they went & changed up the males to mirror the females, people with an axe to grind would still come in to complain that the female Borg are sexist depictions. You can't please everyone, and you'll certainly never please certain mindset segments of the population where everything possible has some kind of offensiveness to it to them.
I like the Borg as they were in the shows. I like the Borg as they are in the game. I'll still like the Borg if they lop off the TRIBBLE entirely & mutilate them further. It doesn't matter what they look like to me, the Collective doesn't give a TRIBBLE if I like their appearance or not. They'd rather assimilate me than listen to a complaint about how they look.
And guess what? You're still wrong!
That's probably because you've completely (and possibly deliberately) missed the point.
I don't think the OP minds if you shove big, heaving bosoms on EVERY NPC, as long as it makes sense in context. Those last two words are key: in context. That's this really complicated idea that you sort of overlooked while building that strawman you're attacking, but it's sort of the entire point that she was getting at.
The Borg Swedish Bikini Brigade does not make sense in context. Orions, on the other hand, you expect to be mostly naked, so nobody is complaining about that. Even people who use scary words like "sexism" can enjoy green bikini women, both being them and looking at them! Neat!
If you can provide a canon reason why Borg drones would dress in Fredrick's of Romulus attire, by all means, pitch it. If it actually made sense, maybe nobody would care.
But for me, the real problem is still that we've got old 2009 models standing right next to spiffy 2011 canon models, right where the player can walk up and take a good look at them. It clashes horribly, and that's a problem. The Borg bikini girl just happens to be the worst of these in terms of clashing (she's not the only one I'd replace if I were an art dev) with the ones that look like they stepped right off the set of First Contact.
There's a thread on clashing carpet textures in DS9 on here, with a dev response. Let alone something like an NPC that's repeated dozens of times in a level.
I'd even settle for a better textured Borg lingerie model, if there was a console with a message about them having come from assimilating the Victora's Secret at the mall, or something.
If she didn't put "sexist" in the title, we wouldn't have seven pages of people falling all over themselves to find reasons why Cryptic can't just replace them with better looking, more canon drones that are already in the game. But sure, she's the one with the axe.
If you modify your argument to replacing older female borg assets with the (non-offensive) borg assets that already exist in-game you'll have much better luck, than having a debate that's gonna resolve exactly nothing lol.
It was fun stirring the pot but it's gotten boring, later.