I think JJ will do a great job with Star Wars. I've at least enjoyed, if not loved, everything of his that I've seen (Super 8, Mission Impossible 4, Fringe, ST2009, etc).
But, setting aside everyone's thoughts on the new movies, I think what we need to carry on the torch now is a new TV show. And I think we need to hand it over to the Canadians. Vancouver really knows how to make great Science Fiction.
The Canadians making star trek? Be a bit dramatic, you know? We're great at making dramatic sci fis... BSG, Sanctuary, SGU? SG1 and SGA werent dramatic but they were still good. We have made shows by Gene before.
Of course the Navy rewards valour but would they award a raw pilot who stopped Pearl Harbour and sunk the entire Japanese navy with command of the Enterprise? A top notch carrier?
Enterprise was the flagship of the fleet, no cadet or recent graduate, no matter what, would be given command of the most powerful ship the Federation has.
Star Trek is a platform for telling certain kinds of stories. Don't get too hung up on the details.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
well, a little bit farfetched in Sci Fi is fine... but something illogical and irrational? If Kirk was an established officer, as in a Lt... and that happened, then that's possible.
well, a little bit farfetched in Sci Fi is fine... but something illogical and irrational? If Kirk was an established officer, as in a Lt... and that happened, then that's possible.
There's no logic to Trek - no matter what the Vulcans say.
In TNG Riker and Data were 1st and 2nd officers of the D for years, yet Shelby was given the 1st officer position over Data when Riker took command. Story needs constantly dictate logic. It's pointless to sweat the details.
Heck, one has to ask themselves why the Klingons never conquered the Earth when it only takes the Klingons 4 days to get here - and they've had space travel for over 1,000 years? If you think about anything in Trek too much then none of it makes sense.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Starfleet never felt Data was ready for command until he shows them on several occasions, commanding the Sutherland during the Klingon Civil war and the Enterprise when Riker and Picard were taken.
Starfleet never felt Data was ready for command until he shows them on several occasions, commanding the Sutherland during the Klingon Civil war and the Enterprise when Riker and Picard were taken.
It was Riker's decision. He chose Shelby over Data - someone he's served with for years and completely knew the capabilities of.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
my two cents on this is J.J. Abrams style and such actually is more suited to doign star wars ....honestly i'd rather see joss wheddon do a trek and have a kinda serenity style captain then , lil twit boy and crew ( scotty keep him hes perfect )
YOU could do a total reboot again by simply having a short 5 minute bit on how the timeline is restored. BE inventive and look forward for a change rahter then backwards.
Star wars however is future totally .....time travel bs jj likes wont work it just wont....maybe cameos formolder actors but ....
and dare i say it hollywood has lost its "they can do a epic film with moral values right" parts.
and redoing wrath a khan oh my bad move .....ya it'll make a few bucks but it wont go anywhere and then cbs is gonna get angry at fans and us all cause were nto supporting there awful decisions ....there is a reasona lot a fan stuff goes back to the old school trek days.
AND it it is because that was the time it was pure trek, and was done to amuse and entertain you at same time giving you issues.
YOU wont see todays issues ina trek film or tv show ...because the govt in charge of the usa is friendly to hollywood.
In fact cause both parties are in there pockets you never will.
think of the 5 season animated justice league that had your favorite heroes actually wanted by the usa govt cause they stood up to its injustices. YOU WONT see that ever again but it made it realistic. IT also brought in other nations kids and peopel to the entertainment.
Well i could ramble on for a hour but no sense hes doing star wars....i tried there game its ok but i am not great fan of ground combat so ....its not what i like.
It was Riker's decision. He chose Shelby over Data - someone he's served with for years and completely knew the capabilities of.
bad analogy you have one person whom has been studying hte borg and YOU NEED that experience ASAP or a drone robot whom may or may not get you the right choices.
Of course the Navy rewards valour but would they award a raw pilot who stopped Pearl Harbour and sunk the entire Japanese navy with command of the Enterprise? A top notch carrier?
Enterprise was the flagship of the fleet, no cadet or recent graduate, no matter what, would be given command of the most powerful ship the Federation has.
and yet in a time of war if all the bridge officers were out of it wesley would hav ebene theone left in charge yup thats how command works you technically get field commision on the spot as people above you are dead or out of it.
the orders you get might be get to where we can replace you but do as you must to get there....
Riker didn't want her, but he knew he needed her because it was apparent Picard/Loctus knew everything that Riker and his crew could think of. Hansen assigned Shelby to the crew as XO because Picard wouldn't know her style.
No, it was Admiral Hansen's decision, not Riker's.
Shelby was angling for the Enterprise's first officer position if Riker left. I think that would have been more Picard's decision than Hansen's. At the beginning of the episode she's pretty much assigned to the Enterprise as a consultant rather than being put in the command structure.
Once Picard was gone, Hansen's promotion of Riker to captain makes sense, since he's first officer and has a lot of experience and in a crisis you wouldn't want to take the time to bring in a new captain from another ship. It would not have made sense to promote Data over him, nor would it have made sense to put Shelby in command.
Once Riker was captain, he picked his command crew (there's a whole scene just about that).
Riker didn't want her, but he knew he needed her because it was apparent Picard/Loctus knew everything that Riker and his crew could think of. Hansen assigned Shelby to the crew as XO because Picard wouldn't know her style.
She didn't need to be the 1st officer. Making her a bridge officer would still have made her a wildcard for the team and the ship. It was nothing more then a stupid story point.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Because too many don't remember the original series. (You can't think of any horror? How about "Charlie X"? The yeoman whose face was removed because Charlie thought she had laughed at him? Or the Incredible Salt Vampire in "The Man Trap"? Sure, that verged on comedy, but only because the concept was vaguely silly - the implementation was horror. What of Redjak, seizing control of people and making them commit murder in "The Wolf in the Fold"?)
Also, I believe the complaints of the movie being "too much action" primarily come from those who grew up with TNG, where Picard would always talk every problem to death before actually doing anything about it. They don't have the visceral connection to Kirk and his gunboat-diplomacy approach ("we're not here to shoot everything in sight - but that doesn't mean we won't"). In "A Taste of Armageddon", Jean-Luc would never have destroyed the computers carrying on the simulated war - he would have just talked to both sides until they gave in to his position. Heck, look at how they handled similar situations, in "That Which Survives" and "The Last Outpost".
When the lonely supercomputer guarding the alien outpost attacked several crewmembers of the Enterprise and threatened to kill Kirk, they responded by phasering the defensive systems into oblivion.
When the lonely supercomputer guarding the alien outpost attacked the Enterprise-D and a Ferengi ship, Picard negotiated the computer into submission.
As you can see, different captains mean different approaches (lampshaded when Q first came to DS9 - "You hit me! Picard would never have hit me!" "I'm not Picard."). And trying to claim Abrams "ruined Trek forever" because he made a movie more reminiscent of TOS than TNG seems like a bit of an IDIC fail.
i like and love space battles think babylon 5 for seaosn 4's big one.....the differance is not that there was too much action it was how he moved us aobut ina dizzying array of movement during it...it mad eit next to impossible to see really anyhtign and by time it was over you got some smucky lil kik stealing y=some guys car.
LIKE hey you can do HUGE space battles like star wars did on the 3rd movie and it doesnt give you a dizzy affect.
thats the problem i hav ewith it to start with almost all trek is based on the good guys win and happy ending syndrome.....it all works out ...well vulcan gets black holed....the time line is screwed beyond measure ....
we dont see how it happened ( as this game eludes it was somehtign they could not avoid ) i was like get in your damn ships and fly off that planet and like your an empire you got billions if not nealry a trillion of you off world
see also the fact spock becomes effectively a romulan cause the way he is and acts is technically how romulans are described ....
since nemesis all romulans are tattoed bald bikers .....
i mean the lil tidbits you can pick apart make the film NOT fun no more.
and instead of all that high tech they got there they should have went with a more old school setting with a few enhancements.
SAVE jj abrams enterprise for a tv show with a 400 year in future ship
NOPE they blew that too taking all the holo tech back that far blows away TNG , and DS9 and voyager series ...by that time you wont need any people with the current holo tech on james t kirks ship by time of picard youd have holo officers everywhere....and maybe data's as security and science people.
i like some stuff and its what i liked that i see him doing better in star wars.
HECK go get the guy that does babylon 5 bring him over to trek he is a huge sci fi fan....
She didn't need to be the 1st officer. Making her a bridge officer would still have made her a wildcard for the team and the ship. It was nothing more then a stupid story point.
actually at a time of crisis when needing to get all you can at borg smashing you if you get incapcitated NEED someone whom already had a rank of cmmander thus experience at such to be 1st officer.
seriously
say you were a unit inside the usa....then one day your going to get stationed in Afghanistan
and they give you a commander ( say your on a frigate)
this commander has served over there 10 years.....
you'd take your current next in line over that experience ? sorry i know how it really works and command decision there was the right one....
you want your decisions to be more right then wrong or possibly wrong.
Shelby was the right choice and its why he mad eit even though he until much later didnt like her.
Is it just me or did this thread get waaay off topic?
(Anyway)
In my opinion JJ will do great with Star Wars just as I think he did great with the Star Trek,
Regardless of how he may or may not have gotten the job. (Reffering to the original post)
Our people are warriors. Often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things.
- The idea of a cadet on academic suspension being given command of the fleet flagship stretches plausibility beyond justification.
- Riker specifically stated that the wanted to keep Data and Worf in the positions they were in, because of their expertise in their roles. He didn't want to shuffle his deck before going into a combat situation, so it made sense to slide Shelby in as first officer.
- The idea of a cadet on academic suspension being given command of the fleet flagship stretches plausibility beyond justification.
- Riker specifically stated that the wanted to keep Data and Worf in the positions they were in, because of their expertise in their roles. He didn't want to shuffle his deck before going into a combat situation, so it made sense to slide Shelby in as first officer.
Proof of derailment if I've ever seen it, lol.
(Not trying to demean your post or insult you in anyway or anything )
Our people are warriors. Often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things.
One - his own (on two occasions, as I recall - "The Ultimate Computer" and "Wolf in the Fold"). He didn't encounter that many alien supercomputers, but when he did, his response was to either leave them alone or (if that proved impossible) destroy them.
I think you're forgetting The Changeling (where he reasoned NOMAD into self-destructing) and Return of the Archons (in which he reasons Landru into self-destructing), off the top of my head.
And as you pointed out, Kirk's approach to all-powerful beings was essentially the same as Picard's approach to Q.
Point being though, on TOS, Kirk was not the regulation-ignoring, violent man-***** that a lot of people seem to think he was. This is the guy who spent his time at the Academy as 'a stack of books with legs' according to Gary Mitchell and being mercilessly taunted by Finnegan. He was not one of the 'cool kids'. Even, for example, when he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru exam, it wasn't because he was too cool for school, it was because he fundamentally disagreed that there was such a thing as a no win scenario and that death could always be cheated. That's why it was brought up in Wrath of Khan, because until that point, Kirk had always managed to find a way out or to win, and that time it cost him the life of his closest friend.
She didn't need to be the 1st officer. Making her a bridge officer would still have made her a wildcard for the team and the ship. It was nothing more then a stupid story point.
You're forgetting the original context of Best of Both Worlds. It was a cliffhanger ending to one season and beginning of another. One of the primary goals of the writers was to convince those of us who watched it first run that it was possible that this might be the end of Picard. Shelby was brought in as Riker's new first officer, and all through the summer, Paramount let out leaks that they were still in contract negotiations with Patrick Stewart, so that none of us knew whether or not Picard would somehow be extracted from the Borg, or if Riker was the new captain and Shelby the new permanent first officer until Part 2 aired that Fall.
So, it wasn't a 'stupid story point', it was a tremendously effective misdirection that generated a lot of excitement and big ratings.
I think you're buying into a Kirk stereotype. I mean, come on, how many supercomputers did Kirk literally talk to death over the course of only three seasons? 4? 5? Kirk wasn't Janeway (who triggered the self-destruct sequence at least once an episode). He was perfectly happy to talk his way out of most situations (ala the 'Corbomite Maneuver').
TOS Kirk, real Kirk, was a much more complex character than the fist-fighting, womanizing, shoot-first and ask questions later portrayal he tends to get from folks with muddy recollections of the actual show. He wasn't Han Solo.
Yeah Kirk was better written than that. Movie Picard on the other hand is more of a Kirk stereotype he just kills his enemies for no reason and is an angry bitter man as opposed to an occaisionally grumpy one on the show. If you compare what we were getting with the TNG movies to the JJ ones I don't see why people are complaining. The TNG cast were no longer the same characters from the show anyways. Having a younger Kirk act more brash and wreckless makes more sense than an older Picard doing so. That said I like the moral dilemma in Insurrection despite how unpopular that film is.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Movie Picard on the other hand is more of a Kirk stereotype he just kills his enemies for no reason and is an angry bitter man as opposed to an occaisionally grumpy one on the show. If you compare what we were getting with the TNG movies to the JJ ones I don't see why people are complaining. The TNG cast were no longer the same characters from the show anyways. Having a younger Kirk act more brash and wreckless makes more sense than an older Picard doing so.
Absolutely agreed about the TNG movies after Generations. Picard got turned into a Kirk stereotype, and they tried to turn Data into his Spock, though he was half wise-cracking sidekick at the same time. Suddenly the two of them were best friends. Seven seasons with more good episodes than bad had created a complex ensemble cast with interesting relationships, then after Generations that all got flushed so they could try to plug the TNG characters into slots on a TWOK template. Nemesis being the worst offender in that regard.
They did the same with the other shows too, btw. Look at Janeway and Seven in the last couple seasons of Voyager, and the horrible stuff they started doing with Bashir around that time. Siddig has publically said that he was in a constant fight with the writers who he was convinced were trying to turn Bashir into a Data/Spock type.
Okay, first off Riker picked Shelby as first officer for two reasons. 1) He wanted to leave everyone where Picard had them because they knew their stations well and knew how they would react in a crisis. 2) Shelby as first officer was a temporary promotion because of the current situation and her experience with the Borg. The reason for her simply not being made part of the bridge crew is because Riker needed her to be in a position of power so he didn't have to confirm her orders/suggestions every time she gave one in the crisis situations.
_________
JJ tried to take on an impossible task. He tried to breath new life into an otherwise dying franchise. TOS had the advantage of the race to the moon and the early days of the space program, TNG had the advantage of the infancy of the shuttle program. The shuttle program had the same problem the computer industry does now, before it even hits the shelves, it's obsolete.
No matter how much you might love DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, the decline in interest of the space program was mirrored by the declining interest of Star Trek and sci-fi in general.
We live in a world of ever increasing internet speed, 1 liner tweets, and overall mindless entertainment. How do you get all that back and bring in a whole new generation with all of that to overcome? You do a poke-n-hope. JJ at least had the decency to try and remove it enough from the TOS universe so as to not spit in the face of everything that came before. He deserves credit for that. Movie run times have become increasingly shorter because the younger generations don't have the patience to sit through a longer movie, and Star Trek has always been about the perfect balance of story and action. Unfortunately the pace of the movie was destroyed by the simple necessity of having to cram in everything to set up this new universe and keep the faster pace younger generations entertained.
There are parts of this movie that did succeed, like the casting for one and separating it from TOS, and if you take it for what it is which is simply a header, an introduction, a novella of backstory then it's not that bad.
The real question is can he take this next movie and move it closer to the established Star Trek dynamic, because in the long run it's not the first movie that matters, but the second and third that should really develop where this is all going.
Now you want to talk about truly destroying something, look at the Transformers catastrophe or even the Alien(s) prequel.
_________
George Lucas lost sight of what made Star Wars great when he did 1,2,3. It wasn't about what can we get away with doing with jack**** money, but a cast that is really passionate about trying to pull off something on such an epic scale, something that they're really passionate about doing. It's like when a big name actor does an independent film, they're not doing it for the money, they're doing it because something about the film really intrigued them.
Besides it's not even JJ you have to worry about destroying Star Wars, it's the mouse. Disney doesn't exactly have the reputation of consistent quality, hell look at how many of their classics they've destroyed with sequels/prequels that never should have happened or they really made poor choices with.
First off, OP, welcome to three months ago. Yes, JJ Abrams is in fact directing Star Wars Episodes 7-9.
And if you hate JJ Abrams as much as you seem to, yes. He will ruin the franchise for you.
Your only option is to choose to live in an alternate universe where none of this is really happening, as I have already done with everything Lucas has produced since 1989.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
GOOD thank god hes moving on he even said he always a star wars fan and not a trek fan.
since star wars is mindless fast paced lense flare glowy things. its right up his ally. i just hope he hasnt ruinned star trek and who ever picks up the peices does a good job.
Now, I will strongly agree that putting Midshipman Kirk in command of the Enterprise, jumping him right over higher-ranking characters in the process (keep in mind that when Kirk first boarded the ship, Chekov outranked him), stretched my Suspenders of Disbelief to the breaking point. I would have preferred if they'd taken an extra five minutes or so of screen time to do a montage of Kirk reporting aboard various ship at various ranks ("Ensign Kirk, report to the Saratoga"; "Lt. Kirk to Farragut, permission to come aboard"; and so forth), culminating in the newly-promoted Capt. Kirk taking command of the Enterprise. Sadly, that was not to be, but I can still insert the sequence in my head whenever I watch the movie.
The Canadians making star trek? Be a bit dramatic, you know? We're great at making dramatic sci fis... BSG, Sanctuary, SGU? SG1 and SGA werent dramatic but they were still good. We have made shows by Gene before.
Yeah... BSG, Sanctuary and SGU...
...
...
Stick to SG-1 and SGA, please. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
GOOD thank god hes moving on he even said he always a star wars fan and not a trek fan.
since star wars is mindless fast paced lense flare glowy things. its right up his ally. i just hope he hasnt ruinned star trek and who ever picks up the peices does a good job.
There's more to it than "mindless fast paced lense flare glowy things". Don't aim him at us! :mad:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
But, setting aside everyone's thoughts on the new movies, I think what we need to carry on the torch now is a new TV show. And I think we need to hand it over to the Canadians. Vancouver really knows how to make great Science Fiction.
The Canadians making star trek? Be a bit dramatic, you know? We're great at making dramatic sci fis... BSG, Sanctuary, SGU? SG1 and SGA werent dramatic but they were still good. We have made shows by Gene before.
In TNG Riker and Data were 1st and 2nd officers of the D for years, yet Shelby was given the 1st officer position over Data when Riker took command. Story needs constantly dictate logic. It's pointless to sweat the details.
Heck, one has to ask themselves why the Klingons never conquered the Earth when it only takes the Klingons 4 days to get here - and they've had space travel for over 1,000 years?
YOU could do a total reboot again by simply having a short 5 minute bit on how the timeline is restored. BE inventive and look forward for a change rahter then backwards.
Star wars however is future totally .....time travel bs jj likes wont work it just wont....maybe cameos formolder actors but ....
and dare i say it hollywood has lost its "they can do a epic film with moral values right" parts.
and redoing wrath a khan oh my bad move .....ya it'll make a few bucks but it wont go anywhere and then cbs is gonna get angry at fans and us all cause were nto supporting there awful decisions ....there is a reasona lot a fan stuff goes back to the old school trek days.
AND it it is because that was the time it was pure trek, and was done to amuse and entertain you at same time giving you issues.
YOU wont see todays issues ina trek film or tv show ...because the govt in charge of the usa is friendly to hollywood.
In fact cause both parties are in there pockets you never will.
think of the 5 season animated justice league that had your favorite heroes actually wanted by the usa govt cause they stood up to its injustices. YOU WONT see that ever again but it made it realistic. IT also brought in other nations kids and peopel to the entertainment.
Well i could ramble on for a hour but no sense hes doing star wars....i tried there game its ok but i am not great fan of ground combat so ....its not what i like.
besides shelby was better to look at.:D
and yet in a time of war if all the bridge officers were out of it wesley would hav ebene theone left in charge yup thats how command works you technically get field commision on the spot as people above you are dead or out of it.
the orders you get might be get to where we can replace you but do as you must to get there....
Shelby was angling for the Enterprise's first officer position if Riker left. I think that would have been more Picard's decision than Hansen's. At the beginning of the episode she's pretty much assigned to the Enterprise as a consultant rather than being put in the command structure.
Once Picard was gone, Hansen's promotion of Riker to captain makes sense, since he's first officer and has a lot of experience and in a crisis you wouldn't want to take the time to bring in a new captain from another ship. It would not have made sense to promote Data over him, nor would it have made sense to put Shelby in command.
Once Riker was captain, he picked his command crew (there's a whole scene just about that).
i like and love space battles think babylon 5 for seaosn 4's big one.....the differance is not that there was too much action it was how he moved us aobut ina dizzying array of movement during it...it mad eit next to impossible to see really anyhtign and by time it was over you got some smucky lil kik stealing y=some guys car.
LIKE hey you can do HUGE space battles like star wars did on the 3rd movie and it doesnt give you a dizzy affect.
thats the problem i hav ewith it to start with
we dont see how it happened ( as this game eludes it was somehtign they could not avoid ) i was like get in your damn ships and fly off that planet and like your an empire you got billions if not nealry a trillion of you off world
see also the fact spock becomes effectively a romulan cause the way he is and acts is technically how romulans are described ....
since nemesis all romulans are tattoed bald bikers .....
i mean the lil tidbits you can pick apart make the film NOT fun no more.
and instead of all that high tech they got there they should have went with a more old school setting with a few enhancements.
SAVE jj abrams enterprise for a tv show with a 400 year in future ship
NOPE they blew that too taking all the holo tech back that far blows away TNG , and DS9 and voyager series ...by that time you wont need any people with the current holo tech on james t kirks ship by time of picard youd have holo officers everywhere....and maybe data's as security and science people.
i like some stuff and its what i liked that i see him doing better in star wars.
HECK go get the guy that does babylon 5 bring him over to trek he is a huge sci fi fan....
actually at a time of crisis when needing to get all you can at borg smashing you if you get incapcitated NEED someone whom already had a rank of cmmander thus experience at such to be 1st officer.
seriously
say you were a unit inside the usa....then one day your going to get stationed in Afghanistan
and they give you a commander ( say your on a frigate)
this commander has served over there 10 years.....
you'd take your current next in line over that experience ? sorry i know how it really works and command decision there was the right one....
you want your decisions to be more right then wrong or possibly wrong.
Shelby was the right choice and its why he mad eit even though he until much later didnt like her.
Andromeda... UGH :P. Trek is almost the only Sci Fi on tv I like.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
(Anyway)
In my opinion JJ will do great with Star Wars just as I think he did great with the Star Trek,
Regardless of how he may or may not have gotten the job. (Reffering to the original post)
- The idea of a cadet on academic suspension being given command of the fleet flagship stretches plausibility beyond justification.
- Riker specifically stated that the wanted to keep Data and Worf in the positions they were in, because of their expertise in their roles. He didn't want to shuffle his deck before going into a combat situation, so it made sense to slide Shelby in as first officer.
Proof of derailment if I've ever seen it, lol.
(Not trying to demean your post or insult you in anyway or anything
I think you're forgetting The Changeling (where he reasoned NOMAD into self-destructing) and Return of the Archons (in which he reasons Landru into self-destructing), off the top of my head.
And as you pointed out, Kirk's approach to all-powerful beings was essentially the same as Picard's approach to Q.
Point being though, on TOS, Kirk was not the regulation-ignoring, violent man-***** that a lot of people seem to think he was. This is the guy who spent his time at the Academy as 'a stack of books with legs' according to Gary Mitchell and being mercilessly taunted by Finnegan. He was not one of the 'cool kids'. Even, for example, when he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru exam, it wasn't because he was too cool for school, it was because he fundamentally disagreed that there was such a thing as a no win scenario and that death could always be cheated. That's why it was brought up in Wrath of Khan, because until that point, Kirk had always managed to find a way out or to win, and that time it cost him the life of his closest friend.
You're forgetting the original context of Best of Both Worlds. It was a cliffhanger ending to one season and beginning of another. One of the primary goals of the writers was to convince those of us who watched it first run that it was possible that this might be the end of Picard. Shelby was brought in as Riker's new first officer, and all through the summer, Paramount let out leaks that they were still in contract negotiations with Patrick Stewart, so that none of us knew whether or not Picard would somehow be extracted from the Borg, or if Riker was the new captain and Shelby the new permanent first officer until Part 2 aired that Fall.
So, it wasn't a 'stupid story point', it was a tremendously effective misdirection that generated a lot of excitement and big ratings.
Yeah Kirk was better written than that. Movie Picard on the other hand is more of a Kirk stereotype he just kills his enemies for no reason and is an angry bitter man as opposed to an occaisionally grumpy one on the show. If you compare what we were getting with the TNG movies to the JJ ones I don't see why people are complaining. The TNG cast were no longer the same characters from the show anyways. Having a younger Kirk act more brash and wreckless makes more sense than an older Picard doing so. That said I like the moral dilemma in Insurrection despite how unpopular that film is.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Absolutely agreed about the TNG movies after Generations. Picard got turned into a Kirk stereotype, and they tried to turn Data into his Spock, though he was half wise-cracking sidekick at the same time. Suddenly the two of them were best friends. Seven seasons with more good episodes than bad had created a complex ensemble cast with interesting relationships, then after Generations that all got flushed so they could try to plug the TNG characters into slots on a TWOK template. Nemesis being the worst offender in that regard.
They did the same with the other shows too, btw. Look at Janeway and Seven in the last couple seasons of Voyager, and the horrible stuff they started doing with Bashir around that time. Siddig has publically said that he was in a constant fight with the writers who he was convinced were trying to turn Bashir into a Data/Spock type.
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JJ tried to take on an impossible task. He tried to breath new life into an otherwise dying franchise. TOS had the advantage of the race to the moon and the early days of the space program, TNG had the advantage of the infancy of the shuttle program. The shuttle program had the same problem the computer industry does now, before it even hits the shelves, it's obsolete.
No matter how much you might love DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, the decline in interest of the space program was mirrored by the declining interest of Star Trek and sci-fi in general.
We live in a world of ever increasing internet speed, 1 liner tweets, and overall mindless entertainment. How do you get all that back and bring in a whole new generation with all of that to overcome? You do a poke-n-hope. JJ at least had the decency to try and remove it enough from the TOS universe so as to not spit in the face of everything that came before. He deserves credit for that. Movie run times have become increasingly shorter because the younger generations don't have the patience to sit through a longer movie, and Star Trek has always been about the perfect balance of story and action. Unfortunately the pace of the movie was destroyed by the simple necessity of having to cram in everything to set up this new universe and keep the faster pace younger generations entertained.
There are parts of this movie that did succeed, like the casting for one and separating it from TOS, and if you take it for what it is which is simply a header, an introduction, a novella of backstory then it's not that bad.
The real question is can he take this next movie and move it closer to the established Star Trek dynamic, because in the long run it's not the first movie that matters, but the second and third that should really develop where this is all going.
Now you want to talk about truly destroying something, look at the Transformers catastrophe or even the Alien(s) prequel.
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George Lucas lost sight of what made Star Wars great when he did 1,2,3. It wasn't about what can we get away with doing with jack**** money, but a cast that is really passionate about trying to pull off something on such an epic scale, something that they're really passionate about doing. It's like when a big name actor does an independent film, they're not doing it for the money, they're doing it because something about the film really intrigued them.
Besides it's not even JJ you have to worry about destroying Star Wars, it's the mouse. Disney doesn't exactly have the reputation of consistent quality, hell look at how many of their classics they've destroyed with sequels/prequels that never should have happened or they really made poor choices with.
First off, OP, welcome to three months ago. Yes, JJ Abrams is in fact directing Star Wars Episodes 7-9.
And if you hate JJ Abrams as much as you seem to, yes. He will ruin the franchise for you.
Your only option is to choose to live in an alternate universe where none of this is really happening, as I have already done with everything Lucas has produced since 1989.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
GOOD thank god hes moving on he even said he always a star wars fan and not a trek fan.
since star wars is mindless fast paced lense flare glowy things. its right up his ally. i just hope he hasnt ruinned star trek and who ever picks up the peices does a good job.
Yeah... BSG, Sanctuary and SGU...
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Stick to SG-1 and SGA, please. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
There's more to it than "mindless fast paced lense flare glowy things". Don't aim him at us! :mad:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.