im sure in other mmos ppl put hard time and work in to there guild and sorry to say but you can buy gold in wow to buy things in wow to put in to your guild bank and so on so stop trying to make sto fleet system sound like its not like most other mmos thes days
and keep this in mind i see a lot of you ppl saying in other threads you can play this game with out having to put real money in to it so stop playing that card
Well, as they have already said they're looking into "B" it's not really your call.
"Looking into" is very different from "working on." And it's not for anyone on this thread to make the call - the forum is to provide feedback, and my feedback is that no degree of protection is going to keep people from making dumb mistakes and it's a waste of dev time to try.
I mean this whole thread is based on a false premise, that the fleet was "STOLEN." Nope. Unless you get your co-leader to sign a contract, you are basically giving away the fleet when you promote him to the same rank.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Whatever. I've said my piece. Hopefully the devs are on this, and hopefully I made an impact on somebody reading. That's all I can do.
Just, please, when somebody comes onto the forums upset over the fact that something important to them was taken away, can we not immediately jump to pointing out how they're stupid and it's all their fault? You know, a little human empathy. Thanks, that is all. I am officially out of this thread.
So, your position is that people need to be, at all times, perfect and flawless judges of others' character? That one should be impervious to deception and fraud, and not protected by society should one fail in this holy responsibility?
Is the concept of personal responsibility completely lost on you?
No one is asking anyone to be a perfect judge of character. We aren't Betazoids, mistakes are going to happen, and the legal system is deigned to take care of that.
The legal system is also designed to discern if the fault could lie more with the victim than the defendant. Because believe it or not, people make stupid decisions, and are responsible for those decisions. It's not one way or the other with no in-between, and trying to argue that way makes you look bad.
More to the topic at hand. We don't know anything about the OP's situation. My first post here was only half in jest - he/she could very well have been booted for legitimate reasons (which would make everyone rushing to their defense a gullible fool, if that were the case). Even if we assume OP is a perfect angel and a victim of malicious fleet theft, there's nothing anyone can or will do about it. If they lost money on this, then that's partly their fault for paying into a system that doesn't require money - they paid for a shortcut on otherwise totally free digital goods that could be shut off tomorrow. Cryptic wouldn't owe any of us anything if they shut down tomorrow, why would anyone owe OP anything if their fleet was taken?
I'm very confused as to how many ranks you think you need.
If you have one rank for the Leader, one rank for Flag Officers with similar powers, one rank for Starbase/Embassy staff officers, one rank for Quartermasters, one rank for Full Members, and one rank for Probationary Members, that's only 6 ranks.
Ya, you are missing a lot there. You have no provision for an actual rank ladder in the fleet, nor do you have proper permissions set for different officers with some leadership but not on the trusted scale yet.
Then you have to deal with fleet stores
There are some very risky permissions on the bank side as well
We've also had scary times with assigning holdings projects in the past, one bad click by one less than intelligent officer and you are now stuck doing the chef assignment for 3 months while cryptic decides they'll fix it next season.
Your 6 ranks are basic, flawed and unrewarding. People aren't content at member, and people aren't suitable for responsibilities either. Your ranks force them into positions they shouldn't be in.
So, your position is that people need to be, at all times, perfect and flawless judges of others' character? That one should be impervious to deception and fraud, and not protected by society should one fail in this holy responsibility?
No, my position is that the rather offensive comparison you keep trying to make is not analogous.
If you hand over your keys to someone, you are not guilty of theft when they clean out your house, but you are responsible for giving them your keys. You have repeatedly attempted to completely absolve them of responsibility by comparing them to victims of sexual assault in an attempt at emotional manipulation.
Your 6 ranks are basic, flawed and unrewarding. People aren't content at member, and people aren't suitable for responsibilities either. Your ranks force them into positions they shouldn't be in.
The UFP has 28 ranks, not including provisional and training ranks. There are over 690 members on our roster (with monthly activity checks) and 3 separate STO Fleets (5 once the Romulans are in). We don't seem to be having trouble mapping responsibility and restrictions to 7 in-game ranks.
You appear to be conflating in-game Fleet controls with... heck, I don't even know. Your members aren't happy being members and want... what? More power?
Edit 2: I'm not saying more ranks wouldn't be nice, I'm saying you don't seem to be using them properly. The ranks are Fleet management tools, the power comes with responsibilities and shouldn't be "rewards" for your members.
"Looking into" is very different from "working on." And it's not for anyone on this thread to make the call - the forum is to provide feedback, and my feedback is that no degree of protection is going to keep people from making dumb mistakes and it's a waste of dev time to try.
There difference here is that Cryptic understands that their entire in-game economy is build around the concept of Fleet expenditures: players buy Dilithium to use on Fleet projects and players grind Dilthium to sell for Zen.
So while you think it's just a "stupid people" issue Cryptic understands that the more this happens the more impact it has on their bottom line. People aren't going to be willing to put $100.00 into a Fleetbase they can get kicked out of by a greedy a-hole usurper - no matter how that usurper got there.
A bad Fleet system rep directly influences Cryptic's financials, so of course they're going to deal with it one way or another.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
There difference here is that Cryptic understands that their entire in-game economy is build around the concept of Fleet expenditures: players buy Dilithium to use on Fleet projects and players grind Dilthium to sell for Zen.
So while you think it's just a "stupid people" issue Cryptic understands that the more this happens the more impact it has on their bottom line. People aren't going to be willing to put $100.00 into a Fleetbase they can get kicked out of by a greedy a-hole usurper - no matter how that usurper got there.
A bad Fleet system rep directly influences Cryptic's financials, so of course they're going to deal with it one way or another.
I missed the dev post where they're making this a top priority and getting it out ASAP. Link please?
Or maybe all your "Cryptic understands" is just projection on your part?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I missed the dev post where they're making this a top priority and getting it out ASAP. Link please?
Or maybe all your "Cryptic understands" is just projection on your part?
It was actually discussed in Dan's Stoked podcast.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
if it was the one i watched it was talked about and best to what i can recall is im sad to here about it i don't recall him saying this is at the top of our to do list
if it was the one i watched it was talked about and best to what i can recall is im sad to here about it i don't recall him saying this is at the top of our to do list
I never said it was a "top priority." I simply said they understand that Fleets have a financial impact in their game and it's something they're looking into.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It was actually discussed in Dan's Stoked podcast.
Well that explains why I didn't hear about it - thanks.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The only thing on the top of Their list at the moment, is this expansion...
But that doesn't mean that the OP's problem isn't on Their TO DO List.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Easiest way to prevent this is to reduce the overall cost of building a Fleet/ Starbase thus reducing the value of stealing it.
I don't think they could reduce it that far. Unless you take it to the point where it would be fairly easy for a soloist to complete a T5 base, there will always be some incentive to take over someone else's base.
I mean, looking at the fleet holdings costs thread, even if they cut the costs by 90%, it would still represent around 3 million Dilithium and 60 million EC. That's still ~$300.
I think you'd have to cut costs by 95%+ to eliminate the theft-value motive.
And then there are also the people who would do it just to be jerks...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
That would also solve the vast majority of the problems in the world.
Don't see it happening any time soon.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Either you know about the risk in promoting people and made a bad decision.
Or, you didn't keep up with information on starbase regulations and failed as a leader.
And in addition if you expect the best from people you need to grow up.
I will however say it makes no sense to have a feature where the top guys can kick eachother or even demote. BUT it was still your responsibility to take reality into account of your decision making.
The UFP has 28 ranks, not including provisional and training ranks. There are over 690 members on our roster (with monthly activity checks) and 3 separate STO Fleets (5 once the Romulans are in). We don't seem to be having trouble mapping responsibility and restrictions to 7 in-game ranks.
You appear to be conflating in-game Fleet controls with... heck, I don't even know. Your members aren't happy being members and want... what? More power?
Edit 2: I'm not saying more ranks wouldn't be nice, I'm saying you don't seem to be using them properly. The ranks are Fleet management tools, the power comes with responsibilities and shouldn't be "rewards" for your members.
So basically you are saying your fleet has 28 ranks, and when I said the 7 ranks in the game aren't enough to properly manage a fleet how is your arguement even attempting to be valid? You proved it, 7 ranks isn't enough, sure we can stuff people into multiple generic permissions, but is it proper? Of course not. Picking stupid fights is something you should avoid, especially when you prove yourself wrong.
EDIT: This thread is now turning into a thread about fleet politics, naming specific people and incidents -- take it onto your own boards or into private messages, not on the public forums. As Daniel has mentioned in recent interviews, this topic of fleet disbanding/ incidents like this is under investigation. When there is more information to provide, we will provide it. Ideas about "fleet protection" may be discussed here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=609111. Thanks. -Brandon
Comments
and keep this in mind i see a lot of you ppl saying in other threads you can play this game with out having to put real money in to it so stop playing that card
system Lord Baal is dead
"Looking into" is very different from "working on." And it's not for anyone on this thread to make the call - the forum is to provide feedback, and my feedback is that no degree of protection is going to keep people from making dumb mistakes and it's a waste of dev time to try.
I mean this whole thread is based on a false premise, that the fleet was "STOLEN." Nope. Unless you get your co-leader to sign a contract, you are basically giving away the fleet when you promote him to the same rank.
Just, please, when somebody comes onto the forums upset over the fact that something important to them was taken away, can we not immediately jump to pointing out how they're stupid and it's all their fault? You know, a little human empathy. Thanks, that is all. I am officially out of this thread.
Is the concept of personal responsibility completely lost on you?
No one is asking anyone to be a perfect judge of character. We aren't Betazoids, mistakes are going to happen, and the legal system is deigned to take care of that.
The legal system is also designed to discern if the fault could lie more with the victim than the defendant. Because believe it or not, people make stupid decisions, and are responsible for those decisions. It's not one way or the other with no in-between, and trying to argue that way makes you look bad.
More to the topic at hand. We don't know anything about the OP's situation. My first post here was only half in jest - he/she could very well have been booted for legitimate reasons (which would make everyone rushing to their defense a gullible fool, if that were the case). Even if we assume OP is a perfect angel and a victim of malicious fleet theft, there's nothing anyone can or will do about it. If they lost money on this, then that's partly their fault for paying into a system that doesn't require money - they paid for a shortcut on otherwise totally free digital goods that could be shut off tomorrow. Cryptic wouldn't owe any of us anything if they shut down tomorrow, why would anyone owe OP anything if their fleet was taken?
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Ya, you are missing a lot there. You have no provision for an actual rank ladder in the fleet, nor do you have proper permissions set for different officers with some leadership but not on the trusted scale yet.
Then you have to deal with fleet stores
There are some very risky permissions on the bank side as well
We've also had scary times with assigning holdings projects in the past, one bad click by one less than intelligent officer and you are now stuck doing the chef assignment for 3 months while cryptic decides they'll fix it next season.
Your 6 ranks are basic, flawed and unrewarding. People aren't content at member, and people aren't suitable for responsibilities either. Your ranks force them into positions they shouldn't be in.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
If you hand over your keys to someone, you are not guilty of theft when they clean out your house, but you are responsible for giving them your keys. You have repeatedly attempted to completely absolve them of responsibility by comparing them to victims of sexual assault in an attempt at emotional manipulation.
It's extremely disingenuous and highly offensive.
Edit: I actually wrote that in my response to him, deleted it, wrote it again, and then finally left it out so it's less confrontational.
The UFP has 28 ranks, not including provisional and training ranks. There are over 690 members on our roster (with monthly activity checks) and 3 separate STO Fleets (5 once the Romulans are in). We don't seem to be having trouble mapping responsibility and restrictions to 7 in-game ranks.
You appear to be conflating in-game Fleet controls with... heck, I don't even know. Your members aren't happy being members and want... what? More power?
Edit 2: I'm not saying more ranks wouldn't be nice, I'm saying you don't seem to be using them properly. The ranks are Fleet management tools, the power comes with responsibilities and shouldn't be "rewards" for your members.
So while you think it's just a "stupid people" issue Cryptic understands that the more this happens the more impact it has on their bottom line. People aren't going to be willing to put $100.00 into a Fleetbase they can get kicked out of by a greedy a-hole usurper - no matter how that usurper got there.
A bad Fleet system rep directly influences Cryptic's financials, so of course they're going to deal with it one way or another.
system Lord Baal is dead
I missed the dev post where they're making this a top priority and getting it out ASAP. Link please?
Or maybe all your "Cryptic understands" is just projection on your part?
if it was the one i watched it was talked about and best to what i can recall is im sad to here about it i don't recall him saying this is at the top of our to do list
system Lord Baal is dead
Well that explains why I didn't hear about it - thanks.
But that doesn't mean that the OP's problem isn't on Their TO DO List.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
this^^^^^^ and i think it has been hinted at also
system Lord Baal is dead
I don't think they could reduce it that far. Unless you take it to the point where it would be fairly easy for a soloist to complete a T5 base, there will always be some incentive to take over someone else's base.
I mean, looking at the fleet holdings costs thread, even if they cut the costs by 90%, it would still represent around 3 million Dilithium and 60 million EC. That's still ~$300.
I think you'd have to cut costs by 95%+ to eliminate the theft-value motive.
And then there are also the people who would do it just to be jerks...
That would also solve the vast majority of the problems in the world.
Don't see it happening any time soon.
my thinking to lol so very true
system Lord Baal is dead
Or, you didn't keep up with information on starbase regulations and failed as a leader.
And in addition if you expect the best from people you need to grow up.
I will however say it makes no sense to have a feature where the top guys can kick eachother or even demote. BUT it was still your responsibility to take reality into account of your decision making.
Wonder if only I am getting a "Last Leg" refernce there
Unfortunately as long as there are people there will be those who fit that description. It is the nature of out species.
So basically you are saying your fleet has 28 ranks, and when I said the 7 ranks in the game aren't enough to properly manage a fleet how is your arguement even attempting to be valid? You proved it, 7 ranks isn't enough, sure we can stuff people into multiple generic permissions, but is it proper? Of course not. Picking stupid fights is something you should avoid, especially when you prove yourself wrong.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
----
EDIT: This thread is now turning into a thread about fleet politics, naming specific people and incidents -- take it onto your own boards or into private messages, not on the public forums. As Daniel has mentioned in recent interviews, this topic of fleet disbanding/ incidents like this is under investigation. When there is more information to provide, we will provide it. Ideas about "fleet protection" may be discussed here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=609111. Thanks. -Brandon