Speed can be justified if the ship can actually fire back. No point being a huge lumbering target if you cant adequately defend yourself. Which in this case the D'D retro can't
You can excuse a ship's canon depiction from a single, or very limited appearance if you like, to say a budget.
But again, of all the TNG onwards Non-Starfleet ships, the D'Deridex has appeared the most times (or among the most). In every instance, in and out of combat, whether part of a force / fleet or even as an individual, they have shown limited mobility. If that isn't a trend, I don't know what is.
Im not trying to excuse it-Its my favourite race and ship in Star trek-but i'm not pointing this out to shoot down detractors
I just see a lot over the top conclusions on the warbird's capabilities beyound its "slow" -I agree with you -it should be "Ponderous" it conveys its size -which the show never really conveyed sadly.
I hate to break the "Immersion" But the fact that the Warbirds in the Tal Shiar Fleet just stood still has a lot to do with FX and Budget as its supposed "lumbering" speed
If we're opening that door, then the only reason that Galaxy class ships and Excelsior class ships even showed up on screen in the Dominion War was because of FX budgets.
So we can knock the Excelsior back down to a T3 ship only due to age and the fact that if the show had more budget some other, newer, better ship would have been on screen!
Well the saving grace of the D'Deridex may be the battle cloak. If I remember correctly, the bop's battle cloak increases turn rate, so if romulan ships also get a buff to turn rate from batttle cloak, their poor maneuverability while decloaked may be somewhat offset once they cloak, which would truly emphasize their cloaking tendencies and the need to use it strategically in combat.
Though I must admit I would be disappointed by three engineering ensign slots... I'd probably much prefer that ensign be universal so one could have one extra science ability or better afford the mandatory tac team and still have two tactical attack abilities. But since they are reworking emergency power abilities, they may rework other abilities too so that being so engineering heavy may not be such a gimping, or perhaps they'll modify the team abilities so that tac team isn't the gold standard for defense anymore. If that's the case, the ship might be just fine... we'll have to see.
Well according to this post, the base turn rate is 5.5. Personally I'd have liked to have seen something more like this for the D'deridex-class, since positional combat seemed much more in line with how we saw the ship in its early appearances:
-leans back in chair, shadows falling of his face while he steeples fingers- Good, gooood. Give in to your hatred.
Please no SW quotes.
I love the Romulans and their ships but didn't the Warbirds get its TRIBBLE kicked in thoroughly in DS9. Even in the last episode the Romulan line collapsed and Feds had to step in to save them.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm sorry....-pouts- I just couldn't help myself, all the anger from a simple question and the kidlet was watching SW while I was reading so....I won't do it again I promise.
As for tor God no, I cancelled my sub a long time ago.
Rather than giving every ship a Lt. commander or higher tactical slot because that is deemed the best, wouldn't it make more sense for the dev team to give the high end science and especially engineering powers an overhaul so they become a more competitive choice compared to the tactical abilities they compete with?
Rather than giving every ship a Lt. commander or higher tactical slot because that is deemed the best, wouldn't it make more sense for the dev team to give the high end science and especially engineering powers an overhaul so they become a more competitive choice compared to the tactical abilities they compete with?
Agreed. If the engi/sci abilities were reworked, it wouldn't be an issue.
Well the saving grace of the D'Deridex may be the battle cloak. If I remember correctly, the bop's battle cloak increases turn rate, so if romulan ships also get a buff to turn rate from batttle cloak, their poor maneuverability while decloaked may be somewhat offset once they cloak, which would truly emphasize their cloaking tendencies and the need to use it strategically in combat.
Though I must admit I would be disappointed by three engineering ensign slots... I'd probably much prefer that ensign be universal so one could have one extra science ability or better afford the mandatory tac team and still have two tactical attack abilities. But since they are reworking emergency power abilities, they may rework other abilities too so that being so engineering heavy may not be such a gimping, or perhaps they'll modify the team abilities so that tac team isn't the gold standard for defense anymore. If that's the case, the ship might be just fine... we'll have to see.
For you guys toying with cloaks for the first time, especially Battecloaks, you better be careful as to when you use that. The moment you hit that cloak button, which BC allows you to do provided its off cooldown, your shields *drop*, exposing completely your hull for several seconds to any and every attack.
Upcoming Romulan players with no experience with cloaks need to take this advice. Most especially for PVP.
With the D'Deridex's assumed, ponderous mobility, sheer size, and the attention it will get, trying to go in and out of cloaks while in weapons range is a recipe for disaster.
A BOP at least has the mobility to move quickly to a safe distance / direction to apply Battlecloaks. A cruiser / heavy cruiser does not.
For you guys toying with cloaks for the first time, especially Battecloaks, you better be careful as to when you use that. The moment you hit that cloak button, which BC allows you to do provided its off cooldown, your shields *drop*, exposing completely your hull for several seconds to any and every attack.
Upcoming Romulan players with no experience with cloaks need to take this advice. Most especially for PVP.
With the D'Deridex's assumed, ponderous mobility, sheer size, and the attention it will get, trying to go in and out of cloaks while in weapons range is a recipe for disaster.
A BOP at least has the mobility to move quickly to a safe distance / direction to apply Battlecloaks. A cruiser / heavy cruiser does not.
I've played bop and other klingon ships and know the danger. However, there are romulan boffs that increase your defense when you cloak, which may help to remedy the situation, as well as polorizing the hull/aux to structural/hazard emitters as one cloaks to help mitigate the damage. Of course there's also making sure you're not in the strongest arcs of the enemy when you make the attempt, etc. etc. I know it isn't going to be some magic "I win button" but I still like having the option and look forward to trying to use it creatively.
For you guys toying with cloaks for the first time, especially Battecloaks, you better be careful as to when you use that. The moment you hit that cloak button, which BC allows you to do provided its off cooldown, your shields *drop*, exposing completely your hull for several seconds to any and every attack.
Upcoming Romulan players with no experience with cloaks need to take this advice. Most especially for PVP.
With the D'Deridex's assumed, ponderous mobility, sheer size, and the attention it will get, trying to go in and out of cloaks while in weapons range is a recipe for disaster.
A BOP at least has the mobility to move quickly to a safe distance / direction to apply Battlecloaks. A cruiser / heavy cruiser does not.
You are right - the most deadly battle-cloaking ship in the game will be the Fleet Mogai!
Turn of 14/15? base hull of 36.5k or 48k fully maxed - cloaking turn/speed buff - yes this one will be deadly in the proper hands.
I've played bop and other klingon ships and know the danger. However, there are romulan boffs that increase your defense when you cloak, which may help to remedy the situation, as well as polorizing the hull/aux to structural/hazard emitters as one cloaks to help mitigate the damage. Of course there's also making sure you're not in the strongest arcs of the enemy when you make the attempt, etc. etc. I know it isn't going to be some magic "I win button" but I still like having the option and look forward to trying to use it creatively.
Sensor jam 1 and scramble 1.
Jam 1 will serve you in duel situations or when you only have one guy immediately shooting you.
You jam him and hit battle cloak - your weapons immediately stop firing so your jam does not get broken. presto. You are now under cloak.
This will work almost 100% of the time because people usually don't fire a sci team for a jam 1, if they even have one.
As for group situations:
Sensor scramble 1 can be your friend here. You hit bc the moment your scramble hits the opponent.
Its less reliably but can give you the seconds needed to cloak under fire in a group situation.
I don't care how bad the turn is, I'm using her as a battleship
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Jam 1 will serve you in duel situations or when you only have one guy immediately shooting you.
You jam him and hit battle cloak - your weapons immediately stop firing so your jam does not get broken. presto. You are now under cloak.
This will work almost 100% of the time because people usually don't fire a sci team for a jam 1, if they even have one.
As for group situations:
Sensor scramble 1 can be your friend here. You hit bc the moment your scramble hits the opponent.
Its less reliably but can give you the seconds needed to cloak under fire in a group situation.
Some other great suggestions for how to make the big girl use her battle cloak effectively, thanks for pointing those out. ^^
Well they better fix her - no-one needs a huge slow eng/tank = "D'faildex"
Uni boff slots like the oddy is the way to go.
Indeed, it was my hope that since the romulans have so few canon vessels, that instead of trying to make a bunch up, or fill out their roster with allied race ships like the hirogen, that they would simply implement a few universal boffs and maybe give them the bop console layout so that the ships would be well rounded... and could then gain an extra console specializing them more tac, sci, or eng when they get a fleet version.
Comments
Im not trying to excuse it-Its my favourite race and ship in Star trek-but i'm not pointing this out to shoot down detractors
I just see a lot over the top conclusions on the warbird's capabilities beyound its "slow" -I agree with you -it should be "Ponderous" it conveys its size -which the show never really conveyed sadly.
If we're opening that door, then the only reason that Galaxy class ships and Excelsior class ships even showed up on screen in the Dominion War was because of FX budgets.
So we can knock the Excelsior back down to a T3 ship only due to age and the fact that if the show had more budget some other, newer, better ship would have been on screen!
Oh wait ...
Though I must admit I would be disappointed by three engineering ensign slots... I'd probably much prefer that ensign be universal so one could have one extra science ability or better afford the mandatory tac team and still have two tactical attack abilities. But since they are reworking emergency power abilities, they may rework other abilities too so that being so engineering heavy may not be such a gimping, or perhaps they'll modify the team abilities so that tac team isn't the gold standard for defense anymore. If that's the case, the ship might be just fine... we'll have to see.
Are the Stats of the Fleet DD already known? Should I start cracking whips on my fleet? :P
We could knock the turn rate down to just 5, if the forward power of the ship is deemed too much.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
The saving grace is probably going to be the singularity core, or at least the designers of the ship would hope so.
Shouldn't you be quelling the rise of the Hutt Cartel?
I meant the saving grace for the TRIBBLE turn rate if it gives a boost to turn rate when battle cloaked.
Please no SW quotes.
I love the Romulans and their ships but didn't the Warbirds get its TRIBBLE kicked in thoroughly in DS9. Even in the last episode the Romulan line collapsed and Feds had to step in to save them.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I'm sorry....-pouts- I just couldn't help myself, all the anger from a simple question and the kidlet was watching SW while I was reading so....I won't do it again I promise.
As for tor God no, I cancelled my sub a long time ago.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
2 uni boff slots like the oddy/borta would be nice:D
Agreed. If the engi/sci abilities were reworked, it wouldn't be an issue.
For you guys toying with cloaks for the first time, especially Battecloaks, you better be careful as to when you use that. The moment you hit that cloak button, which BC allows you to do provided its off cooldown, your shields *drop*, exposing completely your hull for several seconds to any and every attack.
Upcoming Romulan players with no experience with cloaks need to take this advice. Most especially for PVP.
With the D'Deridex's assumed, ponderous mobility, sheer size, and the attention it will get, trying to go in and out of cloaks while in weapons range is a recipe for disaster.
A BOP at least has the mobility to move quickly to a safe distance / direction to apply Battlecloaks. A cruiser / heavy cruiser does not.
I've played bop and other klingon ships and know the danger. However, there are romulan boffs that increase your defense when you cloak, which may help to remedy the situation, as well as polorizing the hull/aux to structural/hazard emitters as one cloaks to help mitigate the damage. Of course there's also making sure you're not in the strongest arcs of the enemy when you make the attempt, etc. etc. I know it isn't going to be some magic "I win button" but I still like having the option and look forward to trying to use it creatively.
You are right - the most deadly battle-cloaking ship in the game will be the Fleet Mogai!
Turn of 14/15? base hull of 36.5k or 48k fully maxed - cloaking turn/speed buff - yes this one will be deadly in the proper hands.
Sensor jam 1 and scramble 1.
Jam 1 will serve you in duel situations or when you only have one guy immediately shooting you.
You jam him and hit battle cloak - your weapons immediately stop firing so your jam does not get broken. presto. You are now under cloak.
This will work almost 100% of the time because people usually don't fire a sci team for a jam 1, if they even have one.
As for group situations:
Sensor scramble 1 can be your friend here. You hit bc the moment your scramble hits the opponent.
Its less reliably but can give you the seconds needed to cloak under fire in a group situation.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well they better fix her - no-one needs a huge slow eng/tank = "D'faildex"
Uni boff slots like the oddy is the way to go.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Some other great suggestions for how to make the big girl use her battle cloak effectively, thanks for pointing those out. ^^
Indeed, it was my hope that since the romulans have so few canon vessels, that instead of trying to make a bunch up, or fill out their roster with allied race ships like the hirogen, that they would simply implement a few universal boffs and maybe give them the bop console layout so that the ships would be well rounded... and could then gain an extra console specializing them more tac, sci, or eng when they get a fleet version.