So basically it was turned into a d'derpidex. Lovely.
The big D has a turn rate of 5.5, and its powers gets augmented by the Singularity Core the longer a fight lasts.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I'm a little puzzled by the Lt Uni slot though. Would anyone ever put anything besides an engineer there, given that it only seems to have a single Ens Eng slot?
I can see someone using it as another sci or tac slot depending on what they want. You could have CRF3, CSV2, and HY2+TS2 if you throw it in tac, or 2 copies of polarize hull, HE, or TS if you go sci.
Only thing that bugs me is the bloated crew count. That's going to straight up murder boff ability cooldowns when they all end up dead or injured 10 seconds into a fight.
cryptic please make bothe the D'Deridex and the galaxy r the there be and universal doff slot in stead of the 3 limited usefulness thire engineneering doff.
Didn't they say it's going to have a turn rate slower than a Galaxy?
No surprise there.
It has a 5.5 turn - 0.5 less than a Galaxy. But it has battle cloak, Rom cloak damage buffs, and a singularity core that grows more powerful the longer a fight lasts.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It has a 5.5 turn - 0.5 less than a Galaxy. But it has battle cloak, Rom cloak damage buffs, and a singularity core that grows more powerful the longer a fight lasts.
But that boff layout...are they at least reworking all of the engineering boff abilities, or just nerfing a bunch of them?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Shouldn't it be more Science-oriented than it is? After all, the NPC version uses Photonic Shockwave and Viral Matrix, which means it should at least be packing a Commander-level Science slot. The layout should be more Nebula and less Galaxy, especially given the TRIBBLE-poor state of Engineering's Ensign-level powers on Holodeck and the Emergency Power abilities on Tribble.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Shouldn't it be more Science-oriented than it is? After all, the NPC version uses Photonic Shockwave and Viral Matrix, which means it should at least be packing a Commander-level Science slot. The layout should be more Nebula and less Galaxy, especially given the TRIBBLE-poor state of Engineering's Ensign-level powers on Holodeck and the Emergency Power abilities on Tribble.
I was actually expecting it to have a layout similar to the Vo'quv Carrier since the NPC ships have Beam Overload 3 and High Yield 3.
Obviously the role of D'Deridex is the role of Galaxy. To gather space dust in space dock.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
It has a 5.5 turn - 0.5 less than a Galaxy. But it has battle cloak, Rom cloak damage buffs, and a singularity core that grows more powerful the longer a fight lasts.
That singularity core better grow more powerful the longer the battle lasts, because with the DeeDee's turn rate battles are going to take forever. :P
I love cruisers, they're what my Main flys. But by all that is good and sweet in Odin's beard, cruiser turn rates leave me crying on the inside.
I was actually expecting it to have a layout similar to the Vo'quv Carrier since the NPC ships have Beam Overload 3 and High Yield 3.
LtC Tactical, LtC Engineering, Cm+Lt Science
or
LtC Tactical, LtC+Lt Engineering, Cm Science
That was the other option I was hoping for, that all Romulan ships would use the alternate boff setup style that the Vo'quv used with fewer total boffs but double LtC slots.
I've been one of the lucky few to gain a closed beta invite and I've seen the D'deridex's preliminary stats firsthand. Fortunately, the ship has it's own T4 variant (like the Venture) which has a universal boff (Lt. Cmdr I think). In fact, the T4 variant is better than the T5 retrofit D'deridex which is still a carbon copy of the retrofit Galaxy.
Not only that, but the Ha'apax is actually tactically weaker than the D'deridex, which really surprised me. It's like a star cruiser with its retrofit variant having more sci options.
^This is amazing! I can set it up just like I set up my Chimera! I'm STFer (kinda sounds wrong) so I gotta have my Gravity Well!
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
So I love the D'Deridex, it is my favorite trek ship, has been since I first remember seeing it when I was a few years old. Now I have also started to really enjoy playing a Sci captain (yes, yes I know class isn't a major thing in the game).
In the series you see the D'Deridex fill the roles of both a warship and a science vessel. So I am wondering if Cryptic will keep true and have it as a science based vessel, or will it be a typical engineer type ship? Anyone have any word on this?
The D'Deridex is a big beam-boat battlecruiser. Take a look at other beam-boat cruisers in the game and I expect that's what you'll get outa her.
Look very closely at what the 2 romulan warbirds do.....
Shooting beams is not what they are doing.
It is accepted trek canon that Romulan Shipboard disruptors have dual mode fire. They can either fire Beams or Pulses.
Traditionally in Trek a beam carries more wallop while pulses usually come with a much higher rate of fire (so the repeated impacts can destabilize the Shield).
Warbirds, being either ambushers or ships of the line obviously would carry the capability both variants. And we see in several other episodes that several secondary weapon points employ beams.
As far as Klingons go: yes. you are now officially disqualified to comment on these things:
Vorchas have always bene depicted as toting one hug beam emitter up front. Just look at "way of the warrior" or "what you leave behind" to see that.
There is evidence for dual mode for klingons too, but not as prominent or definitive an evidence as we have for romulan warbids.
Message in a bottle clearly shows the warbirds opting for the beam wallop.
STO is REALY, REALY Bad about weapons as far as trek canon is concerned.
+ This whole issue is easily solved by INTRODUCING HEAVY, SINGLE CANNONS! You know. so we can have cannon weapon on our fricking warbirds....
God i hate cryptic ever more for not simply doing that.
The D'Deridex can equip dual cannons. Why is this still a hot button issue? The ship can equip the best Deeps weapons in the game, DHCs of your choice. It can be a battlecruiser.
Guys, we're gonna get another prenerfed piece of TRIBBLE like the Galaxy class with too much engineering and precious little else, courtesy of Al Rivera. Why they let that guy have final say on ship specifications with zero oversight is beyond me.
If there is ONE thing that has consistently been shown about the D'Deridex ships in whatever Star Trek show, is that they are lumberingly slow. Not once have we seen the D'Deridex shown any worthwhile maneuvering, even in combat. This even includes the massive joint Obsidian Order - Tal Shiar operation to bombard the Founder homeworld but ended up landing in a Dominion trap with all those Bugships swarming the lumbering D'Deridexes, Keldons, etc.
One can gripe about the Galaxy's handling in STO compared to the TV shows & Generations, because the Galaxy HAS been shown to maneuver alot better than the game.
I haven't seen stats or anything, but my guess is that the D'Deridex will be lumbering, but powerful.
If there is ONE thing that has consistently been shown about the D'Deridex ships in whatever Star Trek show, is that they are lumberingly slow. Not once have we seen the D'Deridex shown any worthwhile maneuvering, even in combat. This even includes the massive joint Obsidian Order - Tal Shiar operation to bombard the Founder homeworld but ended up landing in a Dominion trap with all those Bugships swarming the lumbering D'Deridexes, Keldons, etc.
Observe sequences from the battles of Chin'Toka and Cardassia. D'Deridexes were keeping up quite well with Excelsiors and Vor'Chas.
Observe sequences from the battles of Chin'Toka and Cardassia. D'Deridexes were keeping up quite well with Excelsiors and Vor'Chas.
Moving in a straight line. The nimble ship shown in that show was usually the Defiant. Or a runabout. Or the fighter wings that Sisko would bark orders to through Nog or Dax or Kira. Or the Jem Hadar attack ships.
Everything else was show moving in straight lines. I guess they'd be more manueverable than the weapons platforms that Damar finally got online. But that's about it.
Moving in a straight line. The nimble ship shown in that show was usually the Defiant. Or a runabout. Or the fighter wings that Sisko would bark orders to through Nog or Dax or Kira. Or the Jem Hadar attack ships.
Everything else was show moving in straight lines. I guess they'd be more manueverable than the weapons platforms that Damar finally got online. But that's about it.
Indeed. The fleets were keeping in a formation.
In all other instances with even independently operating ships, or in the twos or threes that D'Deridexes have repeatedly been shown in TNG onwards, they have shown little maneuvering, if at all.
The Galaxy on the other hand has shown otherwise. The 6 turn rate is horrible compared to what was repeatedly been shown on TV.
And it really makes sense that they would have abysmal turning, they're about 1/3 the size of DS9!
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
What equipment you can install is all well and good. But whats the point of putting cannons on the Warbird if your forced to either Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley 1? What damage can the warbird do with that?
Klingon ones are, because they can use heavy cannons. The D'Deridex has always been portrayed as a beam-boat.
I definitely recall them using cannons; quad cannons, arguably, based on the firing pattern. I don't recall any using beams, and that's not to say they didn't on one or two occasions, but Trek's filled with little inconsistencies like that (such as the Klingon "battlecruisers" that jump the Enterprises C+D at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise - turns out they were just three BoPs).
What equipment you can install is all well and good. But whats the point of putting cannons on the Warbird if your forced to either Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley 1? What damage can the warbird do with that?
I figured it was going to have a science tilt, at least giving it grav well 1 so that it can try to leverage CSV1.
Letting it use cannons would be canon, but also noob bait. About the only thing it will be able to keep them on will be a Galaxy.
In all other instances with even independently operating ships, or in the twos or threes that D'Deridexes have repeatedly been shown in TNG onwards, they have shown little maneuvering, if at all.
The Galaxy on the other hand has shown otherwise. The 6 turn rate is horrible compared to what was repeatedly been shown on TV.
To be fair, the tactical comparison always seemed to suggest that a Galaxy and a D'Deridex were on equal footing; giving them identical boff layout is ironically canonical, even if it's cruel that this is the kind of canon they adhere to (someone either hates the players or hates Cryptic, it's that simple).
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
If there is ONE thing that has consistently been shown about the D'Deridex ships in whatever Star Trek show, is that they are lumberingly slow. Not once have we seen the D'Deridex shown any worthwhile maneuvering, even in combat. This even includes the massive joint Obsidian Order - Tal Shiar operation to bombard the Founder homeworld but ended up landing in a Dominion trap with all those Bugships swarming the lumbering D'Deridexes, Keldons, etc.
One can gripe about the Galaxy's handling in STO compared to the TV shows & Generations, because the Galaxy HAS been shown to maneuver alot better than the game.
I haven't seen stats or anything, but my guess is that the D'Deridex will be lumbering, but powerful.
I hate to break the "Immersion" But the fact that the Warbirds in the Tal Shiar Fleet just stood still has a lot to do with FX and Budget as its supposed "lumbering" speed
I agree its stated verbally by data the warbird is slower in warp speed as noted in STTNG episode "the Tin Man"
But the conjecture of its abilities based on the few shots in the battle scenes in DS9 are not definitive evidence -I have noticed so many posters making up information about not just its "statistics" but also its design intent all off this sequence:
At time 1:40 orbital weapons come online, 1;43 orbitals fire plasma torpedoes at Warbird, 1:45 Warbird is hit by plasma torpedoes, 1:46 Warbird is hit by disruptors and loses power to engines.
At time 1:49 Galaxy engages an orbital weapons platform, 1:50 it takes damage from orbital but still continues onward.
At time 1:42 we see the Warbird again, it's adrift and still taking fire from the orbital weapons.
According to some posters it means the warbird is a "Glass jaw" and built for "alpha strikes"
One warbird being hit by a weapon platform cannot define its performance-because in the same sequence -we see a galaxy taking far more damage -i note this is never brought up
Again I love staying in the immersion of the universe -but lets remember the battles are not plotted according to individual ships defined capabilities and played out in simulation -it comes down to what looks good-fx etc.
in STO the devs have to have defined capabilities and factor in game mechanics-I would prefer a balanced design for play -not a ships performance based off many different subjective views of some battle scenes
You can excuse a ship's canon depiction from a single, or very limited appearance if you like, to say a budget.
But again, of all the TNG onwards Non-Starfleet ships, the D'Deridex has appeared the most times (or among the most). In every instance, in and out of combat, whether part of a force / fleet or even as an individual, they have shown limited mobility. If that isn't a trend, I don't know what is.
On a side note, 2 Star Treks game come to mind in the depiction of the D'Deridex. Starfleet Command 3 and Bridge Commander. Their depictions?
Powerful vessel in hull strength, shielding, and upfront weapons loadout. Practically everything to the front with poor aft weapons. The ship was designed to pummel outright whatever was in front coming out of cloak, while still being durable enough for something like an assault on a Starbase or tangling with powerful cruisers. But mobility was a concern; A tradeoff for powerful traits in shielding, hull, forward firepower.
In terms of STO ships, I can easily see this being done without making the ship OP. Again, I'm not in the beta test, but it's just something I'm putting out.
Comments
I can see someone using it as another sci or tac slot depending on what they want. You could have CRF3, CSV2, and HY2+TS2 if you throw it in tac, or 2 copies of polarize hull, HE, or TS if you go sci.
Only thing that bugs me is the bloated crew count. That's going to straight up murder boff ability cooldowns when they all end up dead or injured 10 seconds into a fight.
I was more thinking of the boff layout.
No surprise there.
That's exactly what I thought. I mean, I made a whole thread in the Fed shipyards about making a Fleet Ambassador into an 'Almost-D'deridex'.
Only to find out now it's basically a Fleet Galaxy instead.
I was actually expecting it to have a layout similar to the Vo'quv Carrier since the NPC ships have Beam Overload 3 and High Yield 3.
LtC Tactical, LtC Engineering, Cm+Lt Science
or
LtC Tactical, LtC+Lt Engineering, Cm Science
That singularity core better grow more powerful the longer the battle lasts, because with the DeeDee's turn rate battles are going to take forever. :P
I love cruisers, they're what my Main flys. But by all that is good and sweet in Odin's beard, cruiser turn rates leave me crying on the inside.
Geko Please get rid of the Ensign Engineer.
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That was the other option I was hoping for, that all Romulan ships would use the alternate boff setup style that the Vo'quv used with fewer total boffs but double LtC slots.
Not only that, but the Ha'apax is actually tactically weaker than the D'deridex, which really surprised me. It's like a star cruiser with its retrofit variant having more sci options.
^This is amazing! I can set it up just like I set up my Chimera! I'm STFer (kinda sounds wrong) so I gotta have my Gravity Well!
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
The D'Deridex is a big beam-boat battlecruiser. Take a look at other beam-boat cruisers in the game and I expect that's what you'll get outa her.
Klingon ones are, because they can use heavy cannons. The D'Deridex has always been portrayed as a beam-boat.
You are wrong.
http://youtu.be/q66Mk72b2do?t=1m11s
Look very closely at what the 2 romulan warbirds do.....
Shooting beams is not what they are doing.
It is accepted trek canon that Romulan Shipboard disruptors have dual mode fire. They can either fire Beams or Pulses.
Traditionally in Trek a beam carries more wallop while pulses usually come with a much higher rate of fire (so the repeated impacts can destabilize the Shield).
Warbirds, being either ambushers or ships of the line obviously would carry the capability both variants. And we see in several other episodes that several secondary weapon points employ beams.
As far as Klingons go: yes. you are now officially disqualified to comment on these things:
Vorchas have always bene depicted as toting one hug beam emitter up front. Just look at "way of the warrior" or "what you leave behind" to see that.
There is evidence for dual mode for klingons too, but not as prominent or definitive an evidence as we have for romulan warbids.
Message in a bottle clearly shows the warbirds opting for the beam wallop.
STO is REALY, REALY Bad about weapons as far as trek canon is concerned.
+ This whole issue is easily solved by INTRODUCING HEAVY, SINGLE CANNONS! You know. so we can have cannon weapon on our fricking warbirds....
God i hate cryptic ever more for not simply doing that.
The D'Deridex can equip dual cannons. Why is this still a hot button issue? The ship can equip the best Deeps weapons in the game, DHCs of your choice. It can be a battlecruiser.
What more is there to say?
If there is ONE thing that has consistently been shown about the D'Deridex ships in whatever Star Trek show, is that they are lumberingly slow. Not once have we seen the D'Deridex shown any worthwhile maneuvering, even in combat. This even includes the massive joint Obsidian Order - Tal Shiar operation to bombard the Founder homeworld but ended up landing in a Dominion trap with all those Bugships swarming the lumbering D'Deridexes, Keldons, etc.
One can gripe about the Galaxy's handling in STO compared to the TV shows & Generations, because the Galaxy HAS been shown to maneuver alot better than the game.
I haven't seen stats or anything, but my guess is that the D'Deridex will be lumbering, but powerful.
Observe sequences from the battles of Chin'Toka and Cardassia. D'Deridexes were keeping up quite well with Excelsiors and Vor'Chas.
Moving in a straight line. The nimble ship shown in that show was usually the Defiant. Or a runabout. Or the fighter wings that Sisko would bark orders to through Nog or Dax or Kira. Or the Jem Hadar attack ships.
Everything else was show moving in straight lines. I guess they'd be more manueverable than the weapons platforms that Damar finally got online. But that's about it.
Indeed. The fleets were keeping in a formation.
In all other instances with even independently operating ships, or in the twos or threes that D'Deridexes have repeatedly been shown in TNG onwards, they have shown little maneuvering, if at all.
The Galaxy on the other hand has shown otherwise. The 6 turn rate is horrible compared to what was repeatedly been shown on TV.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
I figured it was going to have a science tilt, at least giving it grav well 1 so that it can try to leverage CSV1.
Letting it use cannons would be canon, but also noob bait. About the only thing it will be able to keep them on will be a Galaxy.
To be fair, the tactical comparison always seemed to suggest that a Galaxy and a D'Deridex were on equal footing; giving them identical boff layout is ironically canonical, even if it's cruel that this is the kind of canon they adhere to (someone either hates the players or hates Cryptic, it's that simple).
I hate to break the "Immersion" But the fact that the Warbirds in the Tal Shiar Fleet just stood still has a lot to do with FX and Budget as its supposed "lumbering" speed
I agree its stated verbally by data the warbird is slower in warp speed as noted in STTNG episode "the Tin Man"
But the conjecture of its abilities based on the few shots in the battle scenes in DS9 are not definitive evidence -I have noticed so many posters making up information about not just its "statistics" but also its design intent all off this sequence:
In the link you provided to the battle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg_6eeJ5eVc, I have interpreted the events as follows.
At time 1:40 orbital weapons come online, 1;43 orbitals fire plasma torpedoes at Warbird, 1:45 Warbird is hit by plasma torpedoes, 1:46 Warbird is hit by disruptors and loses power to engines.
At time 1:49 Galaxy engages an orbital weapons platform, 1:50 it takes damage from orbital but still continues onward.
At time 1:42 we see the Warbird again, it's adrift and still taking fire from the orbital weapons.
According to some posters it means the warbird is a "Glass jaw" and built for "alpha strikes"
One warbird being hit by a weapon platform cannot define its performance-because in the same sequence -we see a galaxy taking far more damage -i note this is never brought up
Again I love staying in the immersion of the universe -but lets remember the battles are not plotted according to individual ships defined capabilities and played out in simulation -it comes down to what looks good-fx etc.
in STO the devs have to have defined capabilities and factor in game mechanics-I would prefer a balanced design for play -not a ships performance based off many different subjective views of some battle scenes
But again, of all the TNG onwards Non-Starfleet ships, the D'Deridex has appeared the most times (or among the most). In every instance, in and out of combat, whether part of a force / fleet or even as an individual, they have shown limited mobility. If that isn't a trend, I don't know what is.
On a side note, 2 Star Treks game come to mind in the depiction of the D'Deridex. Starfleet Command 3 and Bridge Commander. Their depictions?
Powerful vessel in hull strength, shielding, and upfront weapons loadout. Practically everything to the front with poor aft weapons. The ship was designed to pummel outright whatever was in front coming out of cloak, while still being durable enough for something like an assault on a Starbase or tangling with powerful cruisers. But mobility was a concern; A tradeoff for powerful traits in shielding, hull, forward firepower.
In terms of STO ships, I can easily see this being done without making the ship OP. Again, I'm not in the beta test, but it's just something I'm putting out.