How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
Looking at the numbers and how long this mine will take, if your only reason to do it is the dilithium savings, its not worth it to bother with thid holding, if you really want the Miner Doffs, Enigeering consoles and Elite Warp Cores, then its worth doing the Dilithium savings and other savings are really nice bonus.
See if Dan hadn't set expectations that it will help small fleets this Holding would be considered a nice one, but it doesn't meet expectations he set.
You seem to have both made the point, and missed it entirely.
Stahl repeatedly went on record saying that reducing fleet costs was a priority, and that the primary mechanism for doing that would be the dilithium mine fleet holding.
Fast forward to the reveal...and what is the solution that's been trumpeted to us? A reduction in costs coupled with an up front grind that doesn't even break even.
How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
I agree, this isn't any help whatsoever to small fleets. In fact I won't be doing this holding until the embassy which we only just started is complete, and only if members want it.
As a tier 2 almost tier 3 fleet, this doesn't help us any, as others have said you'll pump more into this holding that the discounts allows and this does not make smaller fleets any more attractive to newer players as large fleets will have this maxed out ASAP. Smaller fleets can't match that. If the discount was only to fleets with 100 or less members until they go over that mark it might be useful but again the up front grind means most smaller fleets will decide not to do it.
Another better alternative would be to have the discount up front and as fleets expand and grow larger the discount gets smaller until you're at like 300-400 members where it goes all together.
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So doing some quick maths, according to the figures the OP posted:
A 5-character Fleet couldn't complete just the starbase project in a year.
A 5-character Fleet would need the following from each member, each day to complete the fleet starbase within a year:
497 Fleet Marks 11,252 Dilithium
8 Duty Officers
251,700 Energy Credits
28,536 Expertise
61 Data Samples
.5 Particle Traces
.09 Bridge Officers
Now, a 10-character fleet, or a 5-man fleet where all have one alt, would need he following from each character in the fleet, each day to complete the fleet starbase within a year:
248 Fleet Marks
5,626 Dilithium
4 Duty Officers
14268 Expertise
30.5 Data Samples
.25 Particle Traces
And a small fraction of a BOff.
This is now technically possible to accomplish, but would still require 10 people (or 5 people twice on alts) grinding for materials during the majority of their game play, and willing to part with 70% of the dilithium they mine, every day for a year.
Again, this is just for the Starbase, at minimum amounts of every material needed. This does not include the embassy or special projects
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
I have updated the OP to reflect dilithium mine costs (using pre-discount numbers, since your mileage will vary). Legacy of Romulus Dev Blog #23 confirmed that there will be more limited time projects coming:
Will there be special featured projects available for the Dilithium Mine?
Yes! These featured projects are a great way to add additional life to both the interior and exterior. Completing them can truly transform the Dilithium Mine's environments.
Priority One had me back on the show this week for the first time since the dilithium currency conversion fiasco. My thoughts on the dilithium mine come in around the 21 minute mark.
o1derfull1, Cryptic is likely counting on people to spend zen to buy dilithium for these fleet holdings. I doubt it's as large volume as the master key market, but it's probably a good chunk of revenue.
Thanks, made the correction you mentioned. The 200,000 dilithium special limited-time project for the dilithium mine has also been addeed. Hoping that there's at most 7 of these things like the embassy.
Cool. Again, thank you for all your hard work in crunching these sort of numbers. I also listened to your appearance on the Podcast. Good stuff there too.
Thanks!
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Yeahh buddy. I think it would take a bad, bad leadered Fleet about 2 years to finish everything... if not longer. Added.. he or she may make the mistake of not Provisioning his or her Fleet as well. Bad business.
How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
My main alt has his own fleet with 20-25 active members and has just started the upgrade to Tier 1 with the 5 day cool-down, Another alt. who is in a fleet of 500 has their fleets mine upgrading as well...... the only difference the larger fleet is 2 days ahead.
It comes down to how efficient you are at getting your resources...... there is plenty of opportunity for smaller fleets to achieve the same discounts in the same time. The devs have things in place with certain mechanisms to help you do this
It would be interesting as a community test, if every fleet with a starbase came together in unity to collectively tell cryptic where to go, and with that, everyone leaves their fleets.
I would very much think they would have to look at the starbase system if no one used it
It takes me about 2-3 hours to grind 8K dilithium on my Kling. So we are talking about 6 hours a day grinding dilithium.
On your Klingon? You're doing it wrong.
Pi Canis Sortis = 10 minutes = 4,200 dil (with a friend to speed it up)
3x STFs = 15-20 minutes = 4,380 dil (including marks, not including BNPs)
= 8k dil "grind" done in half an hour once you've been practising them daily for a few months.
Given the hideous amounts of contraband from marauding doffing, I run one contraband turn over mission when I log on. It's so easy to hit the refining cap, seriously easy.
Pi Canis Sortis = 10 minutes = 4,200 dil (with a friend to speed it up)
3x STFs = 15-20 minutes = 4,380 dil (including marks, not including BNPs)
= 8k dil "grind" done in half an hour once you've been practising them daily for a few months...
I'll back Topset and agree that a 30min 8k dil grind is possible.
I don't think most players would be able to do it, though.
I do think EVERY KDF Player should be able to make that grind in about 1hr though.
Taking 2-3hrs to grind 8k KDF side is definitely doing it wrong. :rolleyes:
I have been on 3x Elite STF runs that complete in 10-20mins. Get in the DPS5000 channel and link up with top-notch DPS STF Experts. The kind of people putting out 10-20k DPS each during the runs. Those are magical when they happen. For me though, most runs I'm on take about 10mins each (from the EliteSTF or PublicEliteSTF channels), so 25-30mins for the trio.
However, I've personally never completed a Sorties set in under 20mins. Usually takes me 20-30mins to complete (there's 10mins of travel time in there alone! LOL), but I'll give it to you... It's probably doable with a coordinated partner.
So yeah... 30-60mins, 8k. Done. :cool:
And that's not counting the Contraband DOff Dance.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
I'll back Topset and agree that a 30min 8k dil grind is possible.
I don't think most players would be able to do it, though.
I do think EVERY KDF Player should be able to make that grind in about 1hr though.
Taking 2-3hrs to grind 8k KDF side is definitely doing it wrong. :rolleyes:
I have been on 3x Elite STF runs that complete in 10-20mins. Get in the DPS5000 channel and link up with top-notch DPS STF Experts. The kind of people putting out 10-20k DPS each during the runs. Those are magical when they happen. For me though, most runs I'm on take about 10mins each (from the EliteSTF or PublicEliteSTF channels), so 25-30mins for the trio.
However, I've personally never completed a Sorties set in under 20mins. Usually takes me 20-30mins to complete (there's 10mins of travel time in there alone! LOL), but I'll give it to you... It's probably doable with a coordinated partner.
So yeah... 30-60mins, 8k. Done. :cool:
And that's not counting the Contraband DOff Dance.
It is ridiculously easy to make Dilithium on the KDF side - all the extra missions we have over Fed side make it a Dilthium dream.
I can also EASILY get 30-40 contraband PER DAY doffing EACH of my KDF toons!! (yes yes each one has the best doffs - yadda yadda - but it's totally possible to earn Millions and millions and millions of EC doffing KDF maurading missions. I turn over contraband to my Fed toons to use - so do most other KDF players)
Thanks to STOwiki's list of spire projects for providing additional information to help everyone come Tuesday's expansion. I'll be updating the thread with the latest numbers on the optimal costs.
Comments
Yup. Total fail, no help for small fleets at all.
See if Dan hadn't set expectations that it will help small fleets this Holding would be considered a nice one, but it doesn't meet expectations he set.
I agree, this isn't any help whatsoever to small fleets. In fact I won't be doing this holding until the embassy which we only just started is complete, and only if members want it.
As a tier 2 almost tier 3 fleet, this doesn't help us any, as others have said you'll pump more into this holding that the discounts allows and this does not make smaller fleets any more attractive to newer players as large fleets will have this maxed out ASAP. Smaller fleets can't match that. If the discount was only to fleets with 100 or less members until they go over that mark it might be useful but again the up front grind means most smaller fleets will decide not to do it.
Another better alternative would be to have the discount up front and as fleets expand and grow larger the discount gets smaller until you're at like 300-400 members where it goes all together.
well the the 77th elite squad has another base tier 3 which is for romulan fleet
which is 77th Alpha
nice job :cool:
A 5-character Fleet couldn't complete just the starbase project in a year.
A 5-character Fleet would need the following from each member, each day to complete the fleet starbase within a year:
497 Fleet Marks
11,252 Dilithium
8 Duty Officers
251,700 Energy Credits
28,536 Expertise
61 Data Samples
.5 Particle Traces
.09 Bridge Officers
Now, a 10-character fleet, or a 5-man fleet where all have one alt, would need he following from each character in the fleet, each day to complete the fleet starbase within a year:
248 Fleet Marks
5,626 Dilithium
4 Duty Officers
14268 Expertise
30.5 Data Samples
.25 Particle Traces
And a small fraction of a BOff.
This is now technically possible to accomplish, but would still require 10 people (or 5 people twice on alts) grinding for materials during the majority of their game play, and willing to part with 70% of the dilithium they mine, every day for a year.
Again, this is just for the Starbase, at minimum amounts of every material needed. This does not include the embassy or special projects
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Priority One had me back on the show this week for the first time since the dilithium currency conversion fiasco. My thoughts on the dilithium mine come in around the 21 minute mark.
o1derfull1, Cryptic is likely counting on people to spend zen to buy dilithium for these fleet holdings. I doubt it's as large volume as the master key market, but it's probably a good chunk of revenue.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
It appears you have a bit of a mistake here. I assume you mean the combine total would be 5,528 Embassy provs and 17,627 Dilithium Mine provs.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Thanks!
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
-V
My main alt has his own fleet with 20-25 active members and has just started the upgrade to Tier 1 with the 5 day cool-down, Another alt. who is in a fleet of 500 has their fleets mine upgrading as well...... the only difference the larger fleet is 2 days ahead.
It comes down to how efficient you are at getting your resources...... there is plenty of opportunity for smaller fleets to achieve the same discounts in the same time. The devs have things in place with certain mechanisms to help you do this
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
I would very much think they would have to look at the starbase system if no one used it
On your Klingon? You're doing it wrong.
Pi Canis Sortis = 10 minutes = 4,200 dil (with a friend to speed it up)
3x STFs = 15-20 minutes = 4,380 dil (including marks, not including BNPs)
= 8k dil "grind" done in half an hour once you've been practising them daily for a few months.
Given the hideous amounts of contraband from marauding doffing, I run one contraband turn over mission when I log on. It's so easy to hit the refining cap, seriously easy.
Kirk's Protege.
I don't think most players would be able to do it, though.
I do think EVERY KDF Player should be able to make that grind in about 1hr though.
Taking 2-3hrs to grind 8k KDF side is definitely doing it wrong. :rolleyes:
I have been on 3x Elite STF runs that complete in 10-20mins. Get in the DPS5000 channel and link up with top-notch DPS STF Experts. The kind of people putting out 10-20k DPS each during the runs. Those are magical when they happen. For me though, most runs I'm on take about 10mins each (from the EliteSTF or PublicEliteSTF channels), so 25-30mins for the trio.
However, I've personally never completed a Sorties set in under 20mins. Usually takes me 20-30mins to complete (there's 10mins of travel time in there alone! LOL), but I'll give it to you... It's probably doable with a coordinated partner.
So yeah... 30-60mins, 8k. Done. :cool:
And that's not counting the Contraband DOff Dance.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
It is ridiculously easy to make Dilithium on the KDF side - all the extra missions we have over Fed side make it a Dilthium dream.
I can also EASILY get 30-40 contraband PER DAY doffing EACH of my KDF toons!! (yes yes each one has the best doffs - yadda yadda - but it's totally possible to earn Millions and millions and millions of EC doffing KDF maurading missions. I turn over contraband to my Fed toons to use - so do most other KDF players)
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)