The dilithium mine fleet holding is now on Tribble and set to go live this month.
So, the real question is - how much are these input discounts.
While not unexpected, it's pretty disappointing for Cryptic to say that they're going to help small fleets out, they just have to complete another Holding first *without* help in order to get it.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
So, the real question is - how much are these input discounts.
While not unexpected, it's pretty disappointing for Cryptic to say that they're going to help small fleets out, they just have to complete another Holding first *without* help in order to get it.
According to what I've heard so far, it's 3% per tier.
So at Tier 3, dilithium mine gives 9% discount on fleet projects, trade is 95% discount on items and commodities, and development is 9% discount on fleet marks.
According to what I've heard so far, it's 3% per tier.
So at Tier 3, dilithium mine gives 9% discount on fleet projects, trade is 95% discount on items and commodities, and development is 9% discount on fleet marks.
Wow. So if the costs are roughly comparable to the Embassy, you'd pay (for example), 8.5M Dilithium to build up the Mine, which would save you 2.6M Dilithium on the Starbase+Embassy, assuming that you were starting from scratch.
Woohoo! Great savings.
So glad they decided to help the small fleets out.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Its unlikely to have an refined dilithium requirement, it would be redondant. Its more likely Fleet Marks and EC will be required, with the Fleet Discount for Fleet Marks making up for it. Expertise is a likely requirement as well.
The one think I wanted more then others is med and security doffs discount. Oh well.
Wow. So if the costs are roughly comparable to the Embassy, you'd pay (for example), 8.5M Dilithium to build up the Mine, which would save you 2.6M Dilithium on the Starbase+Embassy, assuming that you were starting from scratch.
Woohoo! Great savings.
So glad they decided to help the small fleets out.
yeah it will be laughably silly if it costs dilitium to make the holding.
Kind of like someone spending $85 bucks on something they don't really need(especially small fleets) to save $25 bucks on the things they do.
So spend $85 to save $25 - you would go broke real fast in real life.
We have at least 2 Fleet Holdings after this so even Fleets at Tier 5 Starbase with all facilities at Tier 5 and Tier 3 Embassy will see some benefit. Although not as much benefit as a Fleet that starts this month.
I've seen random speculation, is there actually a dev source for this?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I've seen random speculation, is there actually a dev source for this?
I understand the new fleet holding is up on tribble. It's beyond speculation now. Cryptic also announced they'd be adding something, and it won't be far away unless there are some significant issues.
I understand the new fleet holding is up on tribble. It's beyond speculation now. Cryptic also announced they'd be adding something, and it won't be far away unless there are some significant issues.
Nope.
Cryptic announced they'd be adding something = new fleet holding on Tribble.
Starkaos says that there are at least two more beyond this = speculation?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Cryptic announced they'd be adding something = new fleet holding on Tribble.
Starkaos says that there are at least two more beyond this = speculation?
Considering that there is still Exploration, Espionage, Medical, and Colonial left for Commendations and Fleet Holdings seem to use up two Commendations when they are released, then there is likely to be 2 Fleet Holdings left unless the devs decide to only go with one Commendation. It is deduction based on relevant information. So 2 or more Fleet Holdings after Dilithium Mine.
Considering that there is still Exploration, Espionage, Medical, and Colonial left for Commendations and Fleet Holdings seem to use up two Commendations when they are released, then there is likely to be 2 Fleet Holdings left unless the devs decide to only go with one Commendation. It is deduction based on relevant information. So 2 or more Fleet Holdings after Dilithium Mine.
Yeah, but that's like saying the Klingons have no low level content, so obviously it must be coming.
In 3 years.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I'd like to see solid numbers for the discount and total construction cost, too. I was also hoping for a reduction of at least 20% at max tier.
Actually, given that they said costs for the mine were 'comparable to the embassy', the discount needed to be 30% to just break even.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
This is tied to the new Fleet Holding that is releasing soon which will have a significant impact on a small Fleet?s ability to complete other Fleet Projects.
I think DL are part of the problem, but I do not think a 9% decrease will help small fleets all that much. Another problem are doffs, the projects require really huge amounts to complete and medical doffs are really hard to come by.
As far as i can see the recent changes not only not help with the doff problem but also doesnt decrease dil cost because the reduction overall is less than the cost for the refinery. Although i have not seen the official post stating the 9% thats floating around i must say that the systems team seems to be in need of some basic economic lessons or something:(
As far as i can see the recent changes not only not help with the doff problem but also doesnt decrease dil cost because the reduction overall is less than the cost for the refinery. Although i have not seen the official post stating the 9% thats floating around i must say that the systems team seems to be in need of some basic economic lessons or something:(
The 9% figure comes from in-game descriptions of the fleet holding found on Tribble.
Now tell me what are you doing breaking the game again. When I logging into 1 toon this morning expecting to have a good payday I see that you removed my Energy Credit Increase on my whole account, really WTF so all the items that sold is sold but I get only 10,000,000 per toon? well where's all my other credits and don't tell me that I need to spend the 5$ to unlock it yet again, and if that's the case put the Zen back in my account for all the Fleet Ship Modules I purchased to sell for E.C.:mad:
Again: The discount is a side effect of the new holding, NOT the main benefit.
The main benefits are the usual holding stores, buffs, gear etc.
You seem to have both made the point, and missed it entirely.
Stahl repeatedly went on record saying that reducing fleet costs was a priority, and that the primary mechanism for doing that would be the dilithium mine fleet holding.
Fast forward to the reveal...and what is the solution that's been trumpeted to us? A reduction in costs coupled with an up front grind that doesn't even break even.
How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
You seem to have both made the point, and missed it entirely.
Stahl repeatedly went on record saying that reducing fleet costs was a priority, and that the primary mechanism for doing that would be the dilithium mine fleet holding.
Fast forward to the reveal...and what is the solution that's been trumpeted to us? A reduction in costs coupled with an up front grind that doesn't even break even.
That's not an improvement.
I take it over a new holding without cost reductions.
But yes, it wouldn't hurt if teh benefits were greater, generel costs reduced anyway and/or other sub holding providing other discounts.
How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
Looking at the numbers and how long this mine will take, if your only reason to do it is the dilithium savings, its not worth it to bother with thid holding, if you really want the Miner Doffs, Enigeering consoles and Elite Warp Cores, then its worth doing the Dilithium savings and other savings are really nice bonus.
See if Dan hadn't set expectations that it will help small fleets this Holding would be considered a nice one, but it doesn't meet expectations he set.
You seem to have both made the point, and missed it entirely.
Stahl repeatedly went on record saying that reducing fleet costs was a priority, and that the primary mechanism for doing that would be the dilithium mine fleet holding.
Fast forward to the reveal...and what is the solution that's been trumpeted to us? A reduction in costs coupled with an up front grind that doesn't even break even.
How does this new holding help small fleets more than large ones? In fact it seems the opposite is true - large fleets can build this and get the discount sooner.
I agree, this isn't any help whatsoever to small fleets. In fact I won't be doing this holding until the embassy which we only just started is complete, and only if members want it.
As a tier 2 almost tier 3 fleet, this doesn't help us any, as others have said you'll pump more into this holding that the discounts allows and this does not make smaller fleets any more attractive to newer players as large fleets will have this maxed out ASAP. Smaller fleets can't match that. If the discount was only to fleets with 100 or less members until they go over that mark it might be useful but again the up front grind means most smaller fleets will decide not to do it.
Another better alternative would be to have the discount up front and as fleets expand and grow larger the discount gets smaller until you're at like 300-400 members where it goes all together.
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My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
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So, the real question is - how much are these input discounts.
While not unexpected, it's pretty disappointing for Cryptic to say that they're going to help small fleets out, they just have to complete another Holding first *without* help in order to get it.
According to what I've heard so far, it's 3% per tier.
So at Tier 3, dilithium mine gives 9% discount on fleet projects, trade is 95% discount on items and commodities, and development is 9% discount on fleet marks.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Wow. So if the costs are roughly comparable to the Embassy, you'd pay (for example), 8.5M Dilithium to build up the Mine, which would save you 2.6M Dilithium on the Starbase+Embassy, assuming that you were starting from scratch.
Woohoo! Great savings.
So glad they decided to help the small fleets out.
The one think I wanted more then others is med and security doffs discount. Oh well.
yeah it will be laughably silly if it costs dilitium to make the holding.
Kind of like someone spending $85 bucks on something they don't really need(especially small fleets) to save $25 bucks on the things they do.
So spend $85 to save $25 - you would go broke real fast in real life.
I've seen random speculation, is there actually a dev source for this?
I understand the new fleet holding is up on tribble. It's beyond speculation now. Cryptic also announced they'd be adding something, and it won't be far away unless there are some significant issues.
Nope.
Cryptic announced they'd be adding something = new fleet holding on Tribble.
Starkaos says that there are at least two more beyond this = speculation?
Considering that there is still Exploration, Espionage, Medical, and Colonial left for Commendations and Fleet Holdings seem to use up two Commendations when they are released, then there is likely to be 2 Fleet Holdings left unless the devs decide to only go with one Commendation. It is deduction based on relevant information. So 2 or more Fleet Holdings after Dilithium Mine.
Yeah, but that's like saying the Klingons have no low level content, so obviously it must be coming.
In 3 years.
Actually, given that they said costs for the mine were 'comparable to the embassy', the discount needed to be 30% to just break even.
Here ya go! List of dilithium mine projects.
I'll be updating the page with relevant analysis over the next few days. Tune in to Priority One for more
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
9%?
Why does that not surprise me in the least. Spend a fortune to save some pocket change.
Significant impact my TRIBBLE.
The 9% figure comes from in-game descriptions of the fleet holding found on Tribble.
So except for more overpriced stores - I don't see how this helps at all.
The main benefits are the usual holding stores, buffs, gear etc.
We would have gotten a new holding with or without discount either way.
So it's a plus. And teh discount applies to all holding stores as well, is that correct?
As I said - more overpriced stores - is that all the starbase system is?
You seem to have both made the point, and missed it entirely.
Stahl repeatedly went on record saying that reducing fleet costs was a priority, and that the primary mechanism for doing that would be the dilithium mine fleet holding.
Fast forward to the reveal...and what is the solution that's been trumpeted to us? A reduction in costs coupled with an up front grind that doesn't even break even.
That's not an improvement.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Yes.
I take it over a new holding without cost reductions.
But yes, it wouldn't hurt if teh benefits were greater, generel costs reduced anyway and/or other sub holding providing other discounts.
Yup. Total fail, no help for small fleets at all.
See if Dan hadn't set expectations that it will help small fleets this Holding would be considered a nice one, but it doesn't meet expectations he set.
I agree, this isn't any help whatsoever to small fleets. In fact I won't be doing this holding until the embassy which we only just started is complete, and only if members want it.
As a tier 2 almost tier 3 fleet, this doesn't help us any, as others have said you'll pump more into this holding that the discounts allows and this does not make smaller fleets any more attractive to newer players as large fleets will have this maxed out ASAP. Smaller fleets can't match that. If the discount was only to fleets with 100 or less members until they go over that mark it might be useful but again the up front grind means most smaller fleets will decide not to do it.
Another better alternative would be to have the discount up front and as fleets expand and grow larger the discount gets smaller until you're at like 300-400 members where it goes all together.