well now the instant kill bops and other heavy burst ships will be able to kill people with more ease... so now you escort pilots prepare for more qq and nerfs to come to your damage when you are able to time a burst between the eps resistance buff. All this is going to do is make more people cry about damage!
well now the instant kill bops and other heavy burst ships will be able to kill people with more ease... so now you escort pilots prepare for more qq and nerfs to come to your damage when you are able to time a burst between the eps resistance buff. All this is going to do is make more people cry about damage!
They already did that with no reason.
Frankly in any MMO if the players aren't QQing about Damage... its not balanced properly.
People have this crazy notion that they should be able to tank anything. It happens in every game people don't like to die and get upset when they do.
If a game is balanced properly they should NEVER be able to tank no matter what.
This game has allowed them to tank no matter what for so long that its going to be painful. It seems Cryptic does in fact what to add balance again. So expect lots of QQ... its normal.
People are over valuing EPTS a bit here as well by the way.
People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.
I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.
Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.
EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.
Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.
I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.
O.o
People in premade matches who get a properly timed alpha on a recently nuked and debuffed target certainly do insta-splode. :P
This stupid change just makes it easier to time those alphas. And some ships are just going to be plain more squishy.
The change did nothing but buff up the most laziest players. It's now a full 10 seconds of vulnerability that will have to be overhealed.
I certainly do tank some of the better players in my healer, but this makes that task even harder and will require more support.
Now if they did a balance pass on the spike damage potential in the game along with these changes, I would not QQ about it. But in typical Cryptic matter, they went about a change in a hamfisted way.
I'm still holding onto hope that the PvEers will QQ enough and get the EPTS change reverted.
I don't agree with everything STO related given how it is balanced, but I accept the necessity of some of these evils.
People in premade matches who get a properly timed alpha on a recently nuked and debuffed target certainly do insta-splode. :P
This stupid change just makes it easier to time those alphas. And some ships are just going to be plain more squishy.
The change did nothing but buff up the most laziest players. It's now a full 10 seconds of vulnerability that will have to be overhealed.
I certainly do tank some of the better players in my healer, but this makes that task even harder and will require more support.
Now if they did a balance pass on the spike damage potential in the game along with these changes, I would not QQ about it. But in typical Cryptic matter, they went about a change in a hamfisted way.
I'm still holding onto hope that the PvEers will QQ enough and get the EPTS change reverted.
I don't agree with everything STO related given how it is balanced, but I accept the necessity of some of these evils.
People die when they get sub nuked because they loose ALL BUFFS. Not just EPTS. Sorry but not having epts up does not = subnuked. lol That is just crazy talk.
You are right though... people will be more vulnerable between epts uses... and then they will... WAIT for it... be very thankful to have a healing team member.
Its called cross healing folks... right now people mostly just throw there cross healing around willy nilly... the thought of having to coordinate heals must really scare some of you folks.
Right now the only Coordination we need to do is on the tac end. No one will get in trouble unless they get nuked. So all we do is switch targets and count the time for the teams subnukes to come back up.... its stupid and frankly I think it holds this game back from the next level of pvp that it should be at.
I know we just had a great turny (which I am sad to have missed)... we have lots of new PvP players... its time now to make the game more active and have games winnable by teams that Don't have 3 sci. It would also be fantastic to have a real need for a properly built CRUISER healer. Extends are still best on a cruiser... Aux to SIF... any one remember that one... it used to be a staple heal before we got to a point where no ones shields ever went down.
We have all complained that the engi class is pointless... and that cruisers are pointless...
Now Cryptic starts making changes to right that... and we QQ. typical of us I guess.
PS... I would say that lazy players are going to have to change there game play... lazy was equipping 2 copies of EPTS... taking both shield tier 4 reps... slotting a couple embassy consoles... and flying in a circle. You know the folks I am talking about... there ships are almost always named USS Can'tKillMeSuka
People are over valuing EPTS a bit here as well by the way.
People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.
I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.
Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.
EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.
Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.
I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.
Here's the thing though:
1x EPtS
Now - 15s gap
LoR - 25s gap
2x EPtS
Now - 0s gap
LoR - 10s gap
EPtX & EPtY
Now - 0-15s gap
LoR - 10-25s gap
Which of those three has the best gap?
2x EPtS, eh?
Are you going to gamble with 3 DCE DOFFs for a 10s to 25s gap? That's not the same as gambling on a 0s to 15s gap. Will you just go with one EPtS with a 25s gap?
2x EPtS, eh?
Or...
...you're going to fly around with a Battle Cloak and vape the guy that made the mistake of not flying around with a Battle Cloak during that 10-25s that they've lost not only the shield damage reduction direct bonus...but also the shield damage reduction indirect bonus and shield regeneration bonus from the additional power.
...you're going to roll in premades with spidertanking ExS circlejerks.
...or what?
The guy I'm looking at right now, runs EPtS1/EPtW1. Yep, he runs 3x DCE DOFFs and is looking at a pretty good chance of having that 99% uptime on both.
The EPtS1 provides him with +25 Shield Power and +18% Shield Damage Reduction. The +25 Shield Power is equivalent to +7% Shield Damage Reduction.
So now, during that 10-25s gap with LoR - he'll have lost 23.74% Shield Damage Reduction.
The EPtW side is far more complicated, lol. Let me do a quick Beam Array (100 base damage is easiest, eh?) example.
Beam Array 100 damage
Mark XII +120 damage
Very Rare +7.5 damage
4x VR Mk XII consoles +120 damage
9 Weapons/9 Energy Weapons +49.5 damage
"Base Damage" = 397
100 Weapon Power +397 damage
EPtW1 w/ 25 Weapon Power +198.5 damage
"New Damage" = 992.5
EPtW1 +99.25 damage
Final Damage = 1091.75
Ignoring "drain" for a moment, this is what it looks like - would look like:
30s of EPtW1
992.5 damage per volley potential for 30s
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 5s of it
30s of EPtW1 (where it only lasts 20s)
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 20s
794 damage per volley potential for 10s
Again, ignoring "drain" and looking at firing a single array (4/5 shots for DPS) to get the DPS - it would look like:
794 DPS for 25s
873.4 DPS for 5s
873.4 DPS for 20s
635.2 DPS for 10s
Finally, ignoring "drain" again - what would be the final damage for each at the end of 30s?
24217
23820
Yep, in that example - it's actually a loss of damage.
But wait, what about abilities that modify damage? Say...APO3?
25447.7
25130.1
Still a loss, eh?
w/o APO3: -397
w/ APO3: -317.6
So it's not as much of a loss if you can toss an APO3 in there. It's also not as much of a loss if you can throw APA in there. It's also not as much of a loss when you can throw GDF in there.
BAZINGA! Wait...what?
The EPtS "nerf" affects everybody.
The EPtW "nerf" affects Tacs in Escorts the least.
But wait, that was silly - ignoring drain like that - and - c'mon, Beam Array? Heh, it's the easiest to do the math (100 base damage on a TRIBBLE Beam Array).
But yeah, it is silly ignoring drain. It's 10s that you don't have that additional Weapon Power to help offset the drain. So yeah, the "nerf" is bigger than outlined in the simple example above. However, the BAZINGA! remains. It nerfs non-Tacs and non-Escorts more. They simply do not have access to the abilities to boost damage. The way Weapon Power and EPtW boost damage...it will affect certain players more than others.
How many folks out there actually run EPtW? Most folks are complaining about the 10s gap for 2x EPtS...
...my main, runs EPtS/EPtW. He's not a Tac, but luckily he's in an Escort, eh? It would hurt more if he wasn't.
you have to be pretty fricking clueless or inexperienced to like this move. i get liking seeing a shield res nerf, there should be one, but this doesn't do it right
first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.
this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online
you have to be pretty fricking clueless or inexperienced to like this move. i get liking seeing a shield res nerf, there should be one, but this doesn't do it right
first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.
this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online
is this really whats been going on while ive been away? or is this coming up?
I think that the fact the spike/healing is "balanced" around the fact you need 100% EptS is stupid. I like the change, although I feel PuGs and new players in PvP will be slaughtered on masse.
Maybe the effects from higher shield power should be increased, to compensate a litte.
Overall, I look forward to test it on tribble.
Btw. an idea. What about to change the duration of the bonus scaling from the rank ?
I: 20s
II: 25s
III: 30s
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
You've flown against me enough don't to know I'm not clueless.
Honestly they have done an across the board resist reduction before... and it didn't help anything because. What one hand at cryptic fixes... the other nullifies with power creep.
A resist reduction will just make the next + resist item that gets dropped all that much more needed.
The only way to long term fix it is with changes to global cool downs.
100% uptime was never good design... and I think we all know that.
Does this change make Battle clock stronger... yes I will agree with that. Honestly with the rom dropping at the same time and them looking to sell ships. Of course I'm sure when the guys at cryptic working toward balanced pitched it... the guys at cryptic only interested in sell through agreed.
I do think this is a good idea... I have been talking about making healing more active for a long time. I talked about changing team skill global cool downs and moving around clears to push multi heal builds for a long time. Right now its FAR FAR to easy to load tac team epts and laugh off everything.
I'm ok with EPTS not being the be all and end all... however I myself would couple this EPTS change with my suggested change to the team skills... that would give people more roll options in terms of defense.
Of course I think new players and selfish ones would be more likely to load dual EPTS 3 builds again... and overall that won't help them... and make pugs even more painful.
why not pop a tss3/haz in between the down time????? -_^ tss3,tss2,haz1 epts x2,wouldnt that work?? i dont see it as an OMG pwnage.
THIS exactly.
We have so many healing options... there are ways to cover your backside with out having to chain EPTS.
I am serious I don't chain EPTS now... I use doffs on most of my builds... but I do end up missing procs now and then and go with out EPTS for 15s at a time... and I don't die because of that EVER.
I pay attention and when I don't proc... I have TSS or heck I'll even evasive at half throttle. lol
People are going to have to learn to PLAY instead of macro. (or push there epts every 30s anyway)... I think this will be very good for the game.
Of course I think new players and selfish ones would be more likely to load dual EPTS 3 builds again... and overall that won't help them... and make pugs even more painful.
Ye but then I realized it wouldn't help cruisers. Because it would leave your engineering ensign spots useless. I mean, I would love to use EptW 3 on my Galaxy, but what should I put in those 3 ensign spots ? :rolleyes:
There needs to be more engineering ensign skills as well...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
We have so many healing options... there are ways to cover your backside with out having to chain EPTS.
I am serious I don't chain EPTS now... I use doffs on most of my builds... but I do end up missing procs now and then and go with out EPTS for 15s at a time... and I don't die because of that EVER.
I pay attention and when I don't proc... I have TSS or heck I'll even evasive at half throttle. lol
People are going to have to learn to PLAY instead of macro. (or push there epts every 30s anyway)... I think this will be very good for the game.
people who actually fly,wont be affected i think. just the ones that rely on 100% up time lol. just means its time to change the build,but there options to compensate for the down time. should be interesting
people who actually fly,wont be affected i think. just the ones that rely on 100% up time lol. just means its time to change the build,but there options to compensate for the down time. should be interesting
It's not just about uptime. No doubt that is there for many people. I've got that concern on certain toons. It's also about downtime though.
Currently, a single EPtS1 is 30s up, 15s down. The proposed change is 20s up, 25s down.
Sure, some are seeing a 33% reduction in uptime. Some are seeing the 167% increase in downtime.
It's not just that it only lasts 20s now...but that it will be another 25s before you can use it again. Unless you do slot two of them or you gamble with DCE DOFFs in the hope that it is only 10s again.
Of the choices, running 2x EPtS for a 10s gap is better than running EPtS/EPtX or a single EPtS. It appears to feed the problem of folks running them instead of curbing it. In the process, it's creating an additional Yo-Yo mechanic where during 10s they're without it - but for 20s they've still got the buff many think too strong.
For the most part, the damage in the game is balanced too much around high resists. If you change one without changing the other...then you're only making it worse.
Course, I've got a guy that doesn't run EPtS. Then again, he doesn't even run TT. And you know what? He does just fine. WTF?
He's not going to sit there and try to duel a Bug. He decloaks for some mayhem and if things start to get rough...he's not there.
The guy in a snoozer...he doesn't have those options. The Bug will alpha during that 10-25s EPtS is down.
As aside, something that folks may also be overlooking is the effect that the change to EPtS will have on ExS. ExS is modified by shield power....so keep an eye out for whether the healer has EPtS up or not - cause it will affect their ExS.
haha could you imagine the QQ if that went live with the new rommy kids getting detected all the time.
Being the TRIBBLE@xxxxxx, I could see the QQ... from 28km away through cloak. It reminded me a RIO talking about his first experience's with the Tomcat's radar.
I know you've deceived me, now here's a surprise
I know that you have 'cause there's magic in my eyes
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah
If you think that I don't know about the little tricks you've played
And never see you when deliberately you put things in my way
Well, here's a poke at you
You're gonna choke on it too
You're gonna lose that smile
Because all the while
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah
You took advantage of my trust in you when I was so far away
I saw you holding lots of other guys and now you've got the nerve to say
That you still want me
Well, that's as may be
But you gotta stand trial
Because all the while
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah
I know you've deceived me, now here's a surprise
I know that you have 'cause there's magic in my eyes
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah
The Eiffel Tower and the Taj Mahal are mine to see on clear days
You thought that I would need a crystal ball to see right through the haze
Well, here's a poke at you
You're gonna choke on it too
You're gonna lose that smile
Because all the while
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
And miles and miles and miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
/10chars
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
this only hurts the pvp players. mehh,ill be doing tac/cruiser PVE, Escorts online is lame. pvp is dead to me :O,spread 3 torps,phasers,total cannon build. and just pve my life away.
I'm not really liking this change. This makes cruisers even more useless. One of the only things they had going was the ability to chain emergency power abilities with their excessive engineering stations. Escort captains should be overjoyed tho. Wait for emergency power to shields to expire and alpha the brown stuff out of your target. This makes burst damage even more kingly then it is already.
This makes me really really sad another example of where cryptic are listening to the minority that cry wolf as opposed to the rest of us who are happy where eptx is at right now. Why is there a need for an uncalled and such a provocative change ?
I'm not really liking this change. This makes cruisers even more useless. One of the only things they had going was the ability to chain emergency power abilities with their excessive engineering stations. Escort captains should be overjoyed tho. Wait for emergency power to shields to expire and alpha the brown stuff out of your target. This makes burst damage even more kingly then it is already.
This makes me really really sad another example of where cryptic are listening to the minority that cry wolf as opposed to the rest of us who are happy where eptx is at right now. Why is there a need for an uncalled and such a provocative change ?
you have to be pretty fricking clueless or inexperienced to like this move. i get liking seeing a shield res nerf, there should be one, but this doesn't do it right
first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.
this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online
Yup, my thoughts exactly.
This changes a lot, even before we get new traits. *no more need to parrot jorf found the other thread*
I'm not really liking this change. This makes cruisers even more useless. One of the only things they had going was the ability to chain emergency power abilities with their excessive engineering stations. Escort captains should be overjoyed tho. Wait for emergency power to shields to expire and alpha the brown stuff out of your target. This makes burst damage even more kingly then it is already.
Yes, and no.
As a PvE hero I immedaty saw the nerf to EPtS as catastrophic to the way people play today. In theory it sounds like common sense but in practice it means most ships will be VERY vulnerable to elite NPC fire, and who really wants to bother to time those things just right?
So the choice is "be annoyed at having ANOTHER CD to worry about and still have less performance than you used to" or "just cycle them as best you can and hope for the best". Am I the only one thinking that things that make the game more annoying are not a good thing? Sure, sure, some will say everything's too easy and they may be right. But then the question becomes, is STO a good enough game to warrant people playing it if it becomes more annoying?
The fun space combat is one of the biggest contributing factors to players putting up with STO, even when it became Star Trek: Grind. But if the grind becomes even more annoying, I just don't know.
Nevermind the fact that its pretty clear the NPCs are balanced around certain things, like constant EPtS res bonus. But then we also see the NPCs go up and down in power, often in bizarre ways with no rhyme or reason so who knows?
What's funny is that the buff to EPtW seems to be rather nasty. Definetely good enough to merit lookign at moving it up from an ens station, but then what else do you put in there?
The overall effect it, as I see it, is a move away from predictable performance in favor of bursts. Burst resistances, burst weapon damage, burst extra power to systems.... I'm not sure how well that will work, it really feels like adding more busywork by having to mind all those.
Well maybe they really tried to improve the eng/cruiser combo with this. But in the end it won't work much, because cruisers are doomed to ensign rank emergency power abilities anyway.
But at least after 3 years the aknowledge that EptX powers should have same duration :P I call that improvement.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
They already did that with no reason.
Frankly in any MMO if the players aren't QQing about Damage... its not balanced properly.
People have this crazy notion that they should be able to tank anything. It happens in every game people don't like to die and get upset when they do.
If a game is balanced properly they should NEVER be able to tank no matter what.
This game has allowed them to tank no matter what for so long that its going to be painful. It seems Cryptic does in fact what to add balance again. So expect lots of QQ... its normal.
O.o
People in premade matches who get a properly timed alpha on a recently nuked and debuffed target certainly do insta-splode. :P
This stupid change just makes it easier to time those alphas. And some ships are just going to be plain more squishy.
The change did nothing but buff up the most laziest players. It's now a full 10 seconds of vulnerability that will have to be overhealed.
I certainly do tank some of the better players in my healer, but this makes that task even harder and will require more support.
Now if they did a balance pass on the spike damage potential in the game along with these changes, I would not QQ about it. But in typical Cryptic matter, they went about a change in a hamfisted way.
I'm still holding onto hope that the PvEers will QQ enough and get the EPTS change reverted.
I don't agree with everything STO related given how it is balanced, but I accept the necessity of some of these evils.
People die when they get sub nuked because they loose ALL BUFFS. Not just EPTS. Sorry but not having epts up does not = subnuked. lol That is just crazy talk.
You are right though... people will be more vulnerable between epts uses... and then they will... WAIT for it... be very thankful to have a healing team member.
Its called cross healing folks... right now people mostly just throw there cross healing around willy nilly... the thought of having to coordinate heals must really scare some of you folks.
Right now the only Coordination we need to do is on the tac end. No one will get in trouble unless they get nuked. So all we do is switch targets and count the time for the teams subnukes to come back up.... its stupid and frankly I think it holds this game back from the next level of pvp that it should be at.
I know we just had a great turny (which I am sad to have missed)... we have lots of new PvP players... its time now to make the game more active and have games winnable by teams that Don't have 3 sci. It would also be fantastic to have a real need for a properly built CRUISER healer. Extends are still best on a cruiser... Aux to SIF... any one remember that one... it used to be a staple heal before we got to a point where no ones shields ever went down.
We have all complained that the engi class is pointless... and that cruisers are pointless...
Now Cryptic starts making changes to right that... and we QQ.
PS... I would say that lazy players are going to have to change there game play... lazy was equipping 2 copies of EPTS... taking both shield tier 4 reps... slotting a couple embassy consoles... and flying in a circle. You know the folks I am talking about... there ships are almost always named USS Can'tKillMeSuka
In light of the recent changes to EPTS....
I would like to suggest this.
I talked about moving all teams to 10s duration... and reducing the global to 20s from 30s.
I also suggested a hull resist component on Engi team to make it more attractive....
I guess considering the new gap in resists... a small resist added to sci team would be ok now.
This might help with some of the QQ... allowing resists to still be maintained at times. (not 100% of the time as it was.)
I think a 7.5% 10% 15% type resist add to the sci team 10s clear... could be really interesting.
Here's the thing though:
1x EPtS
Now - 15s gap
LoR - 25s gap
2x EPtS
Now - 0s gap
LoR - 10s gap
EPtX & EPtY
Now - 0-15s gap
LoR - 10-25s gap
Which of those three has the best gap?
2x EPtS, eh?
Are you going to gamble with 3 DCE DOFFs for a 10s to 25s gap? That's not the same as gambling on a 0s to 15s gap. Will you just go with one EPtS with a 25s gap?
2x EPtS, eh?
Or...
...you're going to fly around with a Battle Cloak and vape the guy that made the mistake of not flying around with a Battle Cloak during that 10-25s that they've lost not only the shield damage reduction direct bonus...but also the shield damage reduction indirect bonus and shield regeneration bonus from the additional power.
...you're going to roll in premades with spidertanking ExS circlejerks.
...or what?
The guy I'm looking at right now, runs EPtS1/EPtW1. Yep, he runs 3x DCE DOFFs and is looking at a pretty good chance of having that 99% uptime on both.
The EPtS1 provides him with +25 Shield Power and +18% Shield Damage Reduction. The +25 Shield Power is equivalent to +7% Shield Damage Reduction.
So now, during that 10-25s gap with LoR - he'll have lost 23.74% Shield Damage Reduction.
The EPtW side is far more complicated, lol. Let me do a quick Beam Array (100 base damage is easiest, eh?) example.
Beam Array 100 damage
Mark XII +120 damage
Very Rare +7.5 damage
4x VR Mk XII consoles +120 damage
9 Weapons/9 Energy Weapons +49.5 damage
"Base Damage" = 397
100 Weapon Power +397 damage
EPtW1 w/ 25 Weapon Power +198.5 damage
"New Damage" = 992.5
EPtW1 +99.25 damage
Final Damage = 1091.75
Ignoring "drain" for a moment, this is what it looks like - would look like:
30s of EPtW1
992.5 damage per volley potential for 30s
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 5s of it
30s of EPtW1 (where it only lasts 20s)
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 20s
794 damage per volley potential for 10s
Again, ignoring "drain" and looking at firing a single array (4/5 shots for DPS) to get the DPS - it would look like:
794 DPS for 25s
873.4 DPS for 5s
873.4 DPS for 20s
635.2 DPS for 10s
Finally, ignoring "drain" again - what would be the final damage for each at the end of 30s?
24217
23820
Yep, in that example - it's actually a loss of damage.
But wait, what about abilities that modify damage? Say...APO3?
25447.7
25130.1
Still a loss, eh?
w/o APO3: -397
w/ APO3: -317.6
So it's not as much of a loss if you can toss an APO3 in there. It's also not as much of a loss if you can throw APA in there. It's also not as much of a loss when you can throw GDF in there.
BAZINGA! Wait...what?
The EPtS "nerf" affects everybody.
The EPtW "nerf" affects Tacs in Escorts the least.
But wait, that was silly - ignoring drain like that - and - c'mon, Beam Array? Heh, it's the easiest to do the math (100 base damage on a TRIBBLE Beam Array).
But yeah, it is silly ignoring drain. It's 10s that you don't have that additional Weapon Power to help offset the drain. So yeah, the "nerf" is bigger than outlined in the simple example above. However, the BAZINGA! remains. It nerfs non-Tacs and non-Escorts more. They simply do not have access to the abilities to boost damage. The way Weapon Power and EPtW boost damage...it will affect certain players more than others.
How many folks out there actually run EPtW? Most folks are complaining about the 10s gap for 2x EPtS...
...my main, runs EPtS/EPtW. He's not a Tac, but luckily he's in an Escort, eh? It would hurt more if he wasn't.
first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.
this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online
is this really whats been going on while ive been away? or is this coming up?
- Red Lantern
Maybe the effects from higher shield power should be increased, to compensate a litte.
Overall, I look forward to test it on tribble.
Btw. an idea. What about to change the duration of the bonus scaling from the rank ?
I: 20s
II: 25s
III: 30s
Honestly they have done an across the board resist reduction before... and it didn't help anything because. What one hand at cryptic fixes... the other nullifies with power creep.
A resist reduction will just make the next + resist item that gets dropped all that much more needed.
The only way to long term fix it is with changes to global cool downs.
100% uptime was never good design... and I think we all know that.
Does this change make Battle clock stronger... yes I will agree with that. Honestly with the rom dropping at the same time and them looking to sell ships. Of course I'm sure when the guys at cryptic working toward balanced pitched it... the guys at cryptic only interested in sell through agreed.
I do think this is a good idea... I have been talking about making healing more active for a long time. I talked about changing team skill global cool downs and moving around clears to push multi heal builds for a long time. Right now its FAR FAR to easy to load tac team epts and laugh off everything.
I'm ok with EPTS not being the be all and end all... however I myself would couple this EPTS change with my suggested change to the team skills... that would give people more roll options in terms of defense.
I could see the logic in it...
Of course I think new players and selfish ones would be more likely to load dual EPTS 3 builds again... and overall that won't help them... and make pugs even more painful.
THIS exactly.
We have so many healing options... there are ways to cover your backside with out having to chain EPTS.
I am serious I don't chain EPTS now... I use doffs on most of my builds... but I do end up missing procs now and then and go with out EPTS for 15s at a time... and I don't die because of that EVER.
I pay attention and when I don't proc... I have TSS or heck I'll even evasive at half throttle. lol
People are going to have to learn to PLAY instead of macro. (or push there epts every 30s anyway)... I think this will be very good for the game.
Ye but then I realized it wouldn't help cruisers. Because it would leave your engineering ensign spots useless. I mean, I would love to use EptW 3 on my Galaxy, but what should I put in those 3 ensign spots ? :rolleyes:
There needs to be more engineering ensign skills as well...
people who actually fly,wont be affected i think. just the ones that rely on 100% up time lol. just means its time to change the build,but there options to compensate for the down time. should be interesting
Come new and funny bugs..
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9162461#post9162461
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
haha could you imagine the QQ if that went live with the new rommy kids getting detected all the time.
It's not just about uptime. No doubt that is there for many people. I've got that concern on certain toons. It's also about downtime though.
Currently, a single EPtS1 is 30s up, 15s down. The proposed change is 20s up, 25s down.
Sure, some are seeing a 33% reduction in uptime. Some are seeing the 167% increase in downtime.
It's not just that it only lasts 20s now...but that it will be another 25s before you can use it again. Unless you do slot two of them or you gamble with DCE DOFFs in the hope that it is only 10s again.
Of the choices, running 2x EPtS for a 10s gap is better than running EPtS/EPtX or a single EPtS. It appears to feed the problem of folks running them instead of curbing it. In the process, it's creating an additional Yo-Yo mechanic where during 10s they're without it - but for 20s they've still got the buff many think too strong.
For the most part, the damage in the game is balanced too much around high resists. If you change one without changing the other...then you're only making it worse.
Course, I've got a guy that doesn't run EPtS. Then again, he doesn't even run TT. And you know what? He does just fine. WTF?
He's a Sci in a Hegh'ta with 4x Sci BOFFs.
TSS1, TB2, VM1, GW3
PH1, HE2, PSW1
ST1, TR1
JS1, SS1
He's not going to sit there and try to duel a Bug. He decloaks for some mayhem and if things start to get rough...he's not there.
The guy in a snoozer...he doesn't have those options. The Bug will alpha during that 10-25s EPtS is down.
As aside, something that folks may also be overlooking is the effect that the change to EPtS will have on ExS. ExS is modified by shield power....so keep an eye out for whether the healer has EPtS up or not - cause it will affect their ExS.
Being the TRIBBLE@xxxxxx, I could see the QQ... from 28km away through cloak. It reminded me a RIO talking about his first experience's with the Tomcat's radar.
That said, it's certainly a bug and probably one that'll be fixed by next week's, or even tomorrow night's, build.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8504891&postcount=5
Which was 1,000,108 - (My stealth value) of around 5,078 = 995030/50 = 19900.6km Visible for 20 seconds.. :P
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
/10chars
PVE Life bro lol
Getting rid of pvp,one pve cry at a time.
Yup, my thoughts exactly.
This changes a lot, even before we get new traits. *no more need to parrot jorf found the other thread*
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yes, and no.
As a PvE hero I immedaty saw the nerf to EPtS as catastrophic to the way people play today. In theory it sounds like common sense but in practice it means most ships will be VERY vulnerable to elite NPC fire, and who really wants to bother to time those things just right?
So the choice is "be annoyed at having ANOTHER CD to worry about and still have less performance than you used to" or "just cycle them as best you can and hope for the best". Am I the only one thinking that things that make the game more annoying are not a good thing? Sure, sure, some will say everything's too easy and they may be right. But then the question becomes, is STO a good enough game to warrant people playing it if it becomes more annoying?
The fun space combat is one of the biggest contributing factors to players putting up with STO, even when it became Star Trek: Grind. But if the grind becomes even more annoying, I just don't know.
Nevermind the fact that its pretty clear the NPCs are balanced around certain things, like constant EPtS res bonus. But then we also see the NPCs go up and down in power, often in bizarre ways with no rhyme or reason so who knows?
What's funny is that the buff to EPtW seems to be rather nasty. Definetely good enough to merit lookign at moving it up from an ens station, but then what else do you put in there?
The overall effect it, as I see it, is a move away from predictable performance in favor of bursts. Burst resistances, burst weapon damage, burst extra power to systems.... I'm not sure how well that will work, it really feels like adding more busywork by having to mind all those.
But at least after 3 years the aknowledge that EptX powers should have same duration :P I call that improvement.