Scimitar will probably be a lockbox ship with a thalaron burst console that will make people say "hell yeah! I can be like Donatra!", but in reality it'll be some bloated space whale with horrible turn rate on par with the Bortasqu and a barely worthwhile gimmick console that takes 5 minutes to recharge and does nowhere near the damage they expect. I'm predicting it'll be a huge disappointment much like the Orb Weaver, but people will buy it anyway because it looks cool.
So are we looking at the Singularity core explosions, as just another standard warp core explosion, or is there a nasty 'grav well' pull in, that drags a nearby ship into range of the coming explosion, making for an added bit of thrill (or just yelling at the screen,) moment?
And looking at these pics alone, not sure why I would bother playing any of the 'allied' Fed/KDF ships, when you can just wait for Fleet Romulan ships at some point, as a ten console D'bird in Fleet flavor, will probably set me for near Romulan life, though still waiting for Scimitar pics to confirm the OTHER Rommy warship, I'd love to fly.
And isn't all the conjecture about battle worthiness of the D'deridex, really 'just' conjecture, as each episode was crafted for the storyline, and less for what one would expect of canon vessel capabilities, which weren't completely, fully quantified in lore? Essentially, truly comparing them to 'our' version of canon, as far as this game goes, wouldn't be the same. One 'does' have to wonder, if the Romulan ships entering gameplay, would be 'properly' portrayed, as I'm not certain that Romulan vessels of 'this' era, are as fully war ready, compared to the war tested vessel versions, of the Feds and KDF are. Obviously once players start playing, that would change, but at baseline, could Romulan ships properly 'compete' with other two playable factions.
These are singularity explosions but I didn't notice any "pull" into them but I'm sure there was resulting damage from the explosion.
I also agree with you about the conjecture that people here have to the way they think the D'deridex should be according to what they saw on screen which did change according to the story.
My only Hope is that it feels powerful enough to take on a Bortasque or an Odyssey ship, maybe that will be the 25th century version. Either way i don't think we will be dissapointed.
Q: [quoting Hartley] "Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays..."
Was there ever a Trekobabble reason as to the wide open empty center of the warbird?
Is Cryptic working on a Romulan flagship? We have the Enterprise F and Bortasq crew, or will Cryptic actually let the player Romulan be the biggest star of the faction?
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Was there ever a Trekobabble reason as to the wide open empty center of the warbird?
Designer Andrew Probert explains: "I came up with the idea that the engines had to reach out to each other in order to work co-dependently. In other words, there would be no obstructions between the engines to disrupt the energy fields or connecting forces between them. And, well, all the alien ships could look different but still operate in the same principle. So that's why [...] [for] the Romulan Warbird, the engines would see each other through the ship. The ship is built above and below the energy field of those engines."
You can read more on his D'deridex design philosophy here.
i don't know were they are getting this from, the D'deridex is a great tank, thats the opposite of what it was. it was a HORRIBLE ship of the line, being part of a joint fleet, they got obliterated. the cardi weapon platforms every hit did an incredible amount of damage per hit, federaion ships, like the galaxy, and kdf ships too much less damage. these are decloak alpha strikers, not attrition fighters like a fed cruiser would be.
these warbirds should have battle cruiser turning, escort hull and cruiser shields
Wow based on those episodes the Warbird is a horrible ship of the line-hmmmm could it be the fact that the Feds and Klingons are the heroes of the the tv show -the writers could just kill some rommie cruisers with cool fx and the heroes prevail. In TNG theres is absolutely nothing showing the warbird is a "glass jaw" or fragile frame-the way the warbird is shown as a powerful threat and its clear the romulan commanders are prepared to fight with it
The Dominion war episodes are dictated by writing and cool fx not each vessel has predefined statistics and the battle is based on complex algorithims comparing those.
If you go by the Tech manuals written by Rick Sternbach you get information like this
Only in STTNG Tech Manual we get a power measurement of a "phaser pulse" of 20 Gigawatts from a Warbird compared the Galaxy's 12 type X emitters rated at 5.1 Megawatts each (In one array i.e. Upper dorsal) or the Klingon B'rels Primary disruptor cannon rated at max of 35.78 Megawatts (Klingon BOP OWM)
Here clealy The Warbird has got massive power for its weapons but the whole "canon" thing kills this.
This perception that the warbird is weak stealth attacker yet the romulans place it in a massive frame with a power source that if not maintained leaks through cloak -does not make sense to me
But love there is so much talk about my favourite ship:)
i don't know were they are getting this from, the D'deridex is a great tank, thats the opposite of what it was. it was a HORRIBLE ship of the line, being part of a joint fleet, they got obliterated. the cardi weapon platforms every hit did an incredible amount of damage per hit, federaion ships, like the galaxy, and kdf ships too much less damage. these are decloak alpha strikers, not attrition fighters like a fed cruiser would be.
these warbirds should have battle cruiser turning, escort hull and cruiser shields
There wasn't even visual fx for the ships at the first battle at Chintoka. I wouldn't go by just a visual reference alone. If that is the measurable standard for ships then I would point you to the pounding the lead Warbird took in "The Die is Cast". No shields and dead in space and the Jem'hadar attack fighters were still pounding on it for a good five minutes or more. I wouldn't say any of my escorts have a hull with that kind of staying power.
Also I would point out a reference at the end of "By the Pale Moonlight" where it references the Romulans striking a number of dominion outposts along the Romulan border and the Romulan fleet retaking Betazed. The Romulan fleet hadn't yet launched the new Valdore class Warbird so I would say they advance quickly for a fleet with a very poor ship of the line.
EDIT: Notice that I gave two distinct examples of what you see or hear based upon the needs of story telling rather than any consistency of ship design.
These are singularity explosions but I didn't notice any "pull" into them but I'm sure there was resulting damage from the explosion.
I also agree with you about the conjecture that people here have to the way they think the D'deridex should be according to what they saw on screen which did change according to the story.
My only Hope is that it feels powerful enough to take on a Bortasque or an Odyssey ship, maybe that will be the 25th century version. Either way i don't think we will be dissapointed.
I agree with you both. Also, a little nit to pick. The D'Deridex is a twenty fourth century design. With the release of the Valdore class Warbird, it seems that the Romulans were going in a direction like Starfleet did with the Sovereign. Large, but agile and with a much more compacted frame.
I personally like the D'Deridex Warbird better, but I recognize that the Valdore class Warbird is the newest Warbird seen on screen (ps- it's not an escort but a military upgrade/replacement for the D'Deridex).
I like the Valdore but certainly not as a replacement for the D'deridex. Also I wish they had a D'deridex in Nemesis, I think it would have looked awesome on the big screen!
Q: [quoting Hartley] "Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays..."
The D'deridex-class seems much more like a "Strike Cruiser", a ship that has great alpha strike capability but loses effectiveness the longer it stays in a protracted fight. If STO mimicked this, it may give more of a reason to use the ships cloaking device in combat.
There wasn't even visual fx for the ships at the first battle at Chintoka. I wouldn't go by just a visual reference alone. If that is the measurable standard for ships then I would point you to the pounding the lead Warbird took in "The Die is Cast". No shields and dead in space and the Jem'hadar attack fighters were still pounding on it for a good five minutes or more. I wouldn't say any of my escorts have a hull with that kind of staying power.
Also I would point out a reference at the end of "By the Pale Moonlight" where it references the Romulans striking a number of dominion outposts along the Romulan border and the Romulan fleet retaking Betazed. The Romulan fleet hadn't yet launched the new Valdore class Warbird so I would say they advance quickly for a fleet with a very poor ship of the line.
EDIT: Notice that I gave two distinct examples of what you see or hear based upon the needs of story telling rather than any consistency of ship design.
If that is the measurable standard for ships then I would point you to the pounding the lead Warbird took in "The Die is Cast". No shields and dead in space and the Jem'hadar attack fighters were still pounding on it for a good five minutes or more.
Don't forget there was a Changeling on board. The Jem'Hadar might have been going easy on that specific warbird until "Lovok" got out of there.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Don't forget there was a Changeling on board. The Jem'Hadar might have been going easy on that specific warbird until "Lovok" got out of there.
You forgot there was a main character as well as an important secondary one aboard.
The ship was practically indestructible because of its hero bonus.
How this effect works becomes even more evident in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" where Odo in a Runabout literally oneshots a JH fighter.;)
You forgot there was a main character as well as an important secondary one aboard.
The ship was practically indestructible because of its hero bonus.
How this effect works becomes even more evident in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" where Odo in a Runabout literally oneshots a JH fighter.;)
Since plot amour protects any kind of ship as long as the heroes are aboard, trying to bring it into a debate about a ship's hull strength is kind of pointless. :cool:
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
There wasn't even visual fx for the ships at the first battle at Chintoka. I wouldn't go by just a visual reference alone. If that is the measurable standard for ships then I would point you to the pounding the lead Warbird took in "The Die is Cast". No shields and dead in space and the Jem'hadar attack fighters were still pounding on it for a good five minutes or more. I wouldn't say any of my escorts have a hull with that kind of staying power.
Also I would point out a reference at the end of "By the Pale Moonlight" where it references the Romulans striking a number of dominion outposts along the Romulan border and the Romulan fleet retaking Betazed. The Romulan fleet hadn't yet launched the new Valdore class Warbird so I would say they advance quickly for a fleet with a very poor ship of the line.
EDIT: Notice that I gave two distinct examples of what you see or hear based upon the needs of story telling rather than any consistency of ship design.
its literally 100% consistent about this ship, regardless of stroy telling intent.
throughout tng they wouldn't fight when they were already decloaked and didn't out number their opponent. in the episode were troy was on that romulan ship, there was talk of a battle were a bunch of warbirds were lost in the opening salvo, but then they obliterated the klingons. that stand off in the defecter proboly would have lasted 5 seconds, with the warbird firepower so high, destroying the enterprise, but due to thier crummy tanking ability getting anialated as soon as shields failed. their tap on the shoulder, if it was at full power, would have destroyed the enterprise and everyone knew it. in tin man, 7 hits with that main cannon took 70% of the D's shield, that was just from 1 war bird shooting.
that joint romulan and cardasian fleet got annihilated so quickly because it was they that were sneak attacked. the cardi ships arent much better then an excelsior, and the war birds once again cant tank, and do most poorly when the element of surprise is used on them. all it took was tiny bug ships to rip them apart. in the prometheus episode, after it separated just a few phaser hits hit annihilated a warbird, presumably after the 2 defiants and akira beat down its shields. other wise both rom ships would have been destroyed by then already. with the tiny arrays the prom had, it wasn't even hitting a quarter as hard as a galaxy could of, but multiple shots from 3 sections add up.
at the first battle at Chintoka there was a ton of comparison shots, the platforms hitting the uss galaxy left gaping holes sure, but when those shots hit a war bird in about a second a quarter of the ship had been vaporized. i think the ships would have pretty strong shields, but unfortunately they couldn't be bothered to show shields through most of DS9. thier hull is not nearly as armored though. the scimitar was another example of over shielded, under hulled, you could see that the hull was much thiner then the E's.
reports of romulan victores make perfect sense, these are dangerous ships. when they acted alone they were actually being used right, like you would use a bop in game. declaok and utterly oblitereate everything in an instant. these are the most dangerous ship there are if they attack you like that. flying into battle in fleet formations with fed and kdf ships, uncloaked, is a horible way to utilize them, that was clear. thats why i said they are horrible ships of the line, doesn't mean they arent devastating when not used like that.
the Valdore is just a heavy cruiser that the romulans had apparently been missing in their ship lineup. seems like its super battleship or small scouts and surveyors only until then. the dominian war showed them they need more traditional and intermediate ships, don't assume its better because its newer, especially when its 1/10 the volume of a D'deridex, if that. a D'deridex would handily out gun the scimitar, that was a massively shielded super weapon cradle, with a bunch of small and medium guns and single shot torp launchers. there was not room for the massive cannon or huge burst capable torp launchers on that thing. it likely could out shield tank a D'deridex and beat it in a strait fight though, just because the D'deridex cant do the whole attrition thing very well.
For game balance reasons though I would like to see high shield numbers and lower comparative hulls for Warbirds compared to fed ships. That would be interesting, and play well with the fact that Romulan ships have giant gaping holes in them.
it was a bit less damage then i remember, but given the size of the ship it still had a lot more of it vaporized per hit then was seen on any fed or kdf ship seen damaged
Would be cool if you could take a small ship through the insides of the warbird. Tho i fear the collision detection they use will prevent it and it will just mean a bounce.
it was a bit less damage then i remember, but given the size of the ship it still had a lot more of it vaporized per hit then was seen on any fed or kdf ship seen damaged
That's only because the beams cut through Excelsior and Miranda class ships, wasting much of their destructive potential.
You forgot there was a main character as well as an important secondary one aboard.
The ship was practically indestructible because of its hero bonus.
How this effect works becomes even more evident in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" where Odo in a Runabout literally oneshots a JH fighter.;)
I did not forget that at all. Notice the edit at the bottom of the post. Story telling is the vehicle of Star Trek, not what their ships can or cannot do.
Ive just been on Trib myself, and had a fight with the Rommy ships, they look fantastic, the Romulan ships Singularity cores implode when they die and the effect is excellent.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
I just hope the Romulan ships will have some good customization options. It's one of the things I hate about Klingon ships, we have very limited design options compared to the feds. The feds can mix and match parts to make completely unique ships, I want that for my Klingon and for my upcoming Romulan.
I just hope the Romulan ships will have some good customization options. It's one of the things I hate about Klingon ships, we have very limited design options compared to the feds. The feds can mix and match parts to make completely unique ships, I want that for my Klingon and for my upcoming Romulan.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I hope the Romulan ships have a few window options, the white ones on the D'deridex aren't that great, I would like to put the bright yellow ones from the Dhelan class on it instead.
it was a bit less damage then i remember, but given the size of the ship it still had a lot more of it vaporized per hit then was seen on any fed or kdf ship seen damaged
D'Deridex-class ships may have an impressively large profile, but they also have a lot of empty space between the top and bottom sections. Their actual mass is probably pretty close to the Galaxy-class's.
Comments
These are singularity explosions but I didn't notice any "pull" into them but I'm sure there was resulting damage from the explosion.
I also agree with you about the conjecture that people here have to the way they think the D'deridex should be according to what they saw on screen which did change according to the story.
My only Hope is that it feels powerful enough to take on a Bortasque or an Odyssey ship, maybe that will be the 25th century version. Either way i don't think we will be dissapointed.
Is Cryptic working on a Romulan flagship? We have the Enterprise F and Bortasq crew, or will Cryptic actually let the player Romulan be the biggest star of the faction?
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Designer Andrew Probert explains: "I came up with the idea that the engines had to reach out to each other in order to work co-dependently. In other words, there would be no obstructions between the engines to disrupt the energy fields or connecting forces between them. And, well, all the alien ships could look different but still operate in the same principle. So that's why [...] [for] the Romulan Warbird, the engines would see each other through the ship. The ship is built above and below the energy field of those engines."
You can read more on his D'deridex design philosophy here.
Wow based on those episodes the Warbird is a horrible ship of the line-hmmmm could it be the fact that the Feds and Klingons are the heroes of the the tv show -the writers could just kill some rommie cruisers with cool fx and the heroes prevail. In TNG theres is absolutely nothing showing the warbird is a "glass jaw" or fragile frame-the way the warbird is shown as a powerful threat and its clear the romulan commanders are prepared to fight with it
The Dominion war episodes are dictated by writing and cool fx not each vessel has predefined statistics and the battle is based on complex algorithims comparing those.
If you go by the Tech manuals written by Rick Sternbach you get information like this
Only in STTNG Tech Manual we get a power measurement of a "phaser pulse" of 20 Gigawatts from a Warbird compared the Galaxy's 12 type X emitters rated at 5.1 Megawatts each (In one array i.e. Upper dorsal) or the Klingon B'rels Primary disruptor cannon rated at max of 35.78 Megawatts (Klingon BOP OWM)
Here clealy The Warbird has got massive power for its weapons but the whole "canon" thing kills this.
This perception that the warbird is weak stealth attacker yet the romulans place it in a massive frame with a power source that if not maintained leaks through cloak -does not make sense to me
But love there is so much talk about my favourite ship:)
There wasn't even visual fx for the ships at the first battle at Chintoka. I wouldn't go by just a visual reference alone. If that is the measurable standard for ships then I would point you to the pounding the lead Warbird took in "The Die is Cast". No shields and dead in space and the Jem'hadar attack fighters were still pounding on it for a good five minutes or more. I wouldn't say any of my escorts have a hull with that kind of staying power.
Also I would point out a reference at the end of "By the Pale Moonlight" where it references the Romulans striking a number of dominion outposts along the Romulan border and the Romulan fleet retaking Betazed. The Romulan fleet hadn't yet launched the new Valdore class Warbird so I would say they advance quickly for a fleet with a very poor ship of the line.
EDIT: Notice that I gave two distinct examples of what you see or hear based upon the needs of story telling rather than any consistency of ship design.
I agree with you both. Also, a little nit to pick. The D'Deridex is a twenty fourth century design. With the release of the Valdore class Warbird, it seems that the Romulans were going in a direction like Starfleet did with the Sovereign. Large, but agile and with a much more compacted frame.
I personally like the D'Deridex Warbird better, but I recognize that the Valdore class Warbird is the newest Warbird seen on screen (ps- it's not an escort but a military upgrade/replacement for the D'Deridex).
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Damn good points:):)
Don't forget there was a Changeling on board. The Jem'Hadar might have been going easy on that specific warbird until "Lovok" got out of there.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
still. ships attacking an unsheilded hull for 5 minutes should have obliterated it rather handily before the changeling even had a chance to get off.
You forgot there was a main character as well as an important secondary one aboard.
The ship was practically indestructible because of its hero bonus.
How this effect works becomes even more evident in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" where Odo in a Runabout literally oneshots a JH fighter.;)
Since plot amour protects any kind of ship as long as the heroes are aboard, trying to bring it into a debate about a ship's hull strength is kind of pointless. :cool:
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
its literally 100% consistent about this ship, regardless of stroy telling intent.
throughout tng they wouldn't fight when they were already decloaked and didn't out number their opponent. in the episode were troy was on that romulan ship, there was talk of a battle were a bunch of warbirds were lost in the opening salvo, but then they obliterated the klingons. that stand off in the defecter proboly would have lasted 5 seconds, with the warbird firepower so high, destroying the enterprise, but due to thier crummy tanking ability getting anialated as soon as shields failed. their tap on the shoulder, if it was at full power, would have destroyed the enterprise and everyone knew it. in tin man, 7 hits with that main cannon took 70% of the D's shield, that was just from 1 war bird shooting.
that joint romulan and cardasian fleet got annihilated so quickly because it was they that were sneak attacked. the cardi ships arent much better then an excelsior, and the war birds once again cant tank, and do most poorly when the element of surprise is used on them. all it took was tiny bug ships to rip them apart. in the prometheus episode, after it separated just a few phaser hits hit annihilated a warbird, presumably after the 2 defiants and akira beat down its shields. other wise both rom ships would have been destroyed by then already. with the tiny arrays the prom had, it wasn't even hitting a quarter as hard as a galaxy could of, but multiple shots from 3 sections add up.
at the first battle at Chintoka there was a ton of comparison shots, the platforms hitting the uss galaxy left gaping holes sure, but when those shots hit a war bird in about a second a quarter of the ship had been vaporized. i think the ships would have pretty strong shields, but unfortunately they couldn't be bothered to show shields through most of DS9. thier hull is not nearly as armored though. the scimitar was another example of over shielded, under hulled, you could see that the hull was much thiner then the E's.
reports of romulan victores make perfect sense, these are dangerous ships. when they acted alone they were actually being used right, like you would use a bop in game. declaok and utterly oblitereate everything in an instant. these are the most dangerous ship there are if they attack you like that. flying into battle in fleet formations with fed and kdf ships, uncloaked, is a horible way to utilize them, that was clear. thats why i said they are horrible ships of the line, doesn't mean they arent devastating when not used like that.
the Valdore is just a heavy cruiser that the romulans had apparently been missing in their ship lineup. seems like its super battleship or small scouts and surveyors only until then. the dominian war showed them they need more traditional and intermediate ships, don't assume its better because its newer, especially when its 1/10 the volume of a D'deridex, if that. a D'deridex would handily out gun the scimitar, that was a massively shielded super weapon cradle, with a bunch of small and medium guns and single shot torp launchers. there was not room for the massive cannon or huge burst capable torp launchers on that thing. it likely could out shield tank a D'deridex and beat it in a strait fight though, just because the D'deridex cant do the whole attrition thing very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg_6eeJ5eVc
For game balance reasons though I would like to see high shield numbers and lower comparative hulls for Warbirds compared to fed ships. That would be interesting, and play well with the fact that Romulan ships have giant gaping holes in them.
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That's only because the beams cut through Excelsior and Miranda class ships, wasting much of their destructive potential.
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I did not forget that at all. Notice the edit at the bottom of the post. Story telling is the vehicle of Star Trek, not what their ships can or cannot do.
I took care of it!
Seconded./10chars
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
D'Deridex-class ships may have an impressively large profile, but they also have a lot of empty space between the top and bottom sections. Their actual mass is probably pretty close to the Galaxy-class's.