i don't know were they are getting this from, the D'deridex is a great tank, thats the opposite of what it was. it was a HORRIBLE ship of the line, being part of a joint fleet, they got obliterated. the cardi weapon platforms every hit did an incredible amount of damage per hit, federaion ships, like the galaxy, and kdf ships too much less damage. these are decloak alpha strikers, not attrition fighters like a fed cruiser would be.
these warbirds should have battle cruiser turning, escort hull and cruiser shields
Screen canon, especially DS9 which had a chronic habit of blowing away anything that wasn't the hero ship just to make the bad guys look intimidating, are a bad measure for game balance and playability. This is the show that would have us believe the Defiant is a nearly unkillable flying pimp hand of death whereas the shields of ever Excelsior ever crumble like tissue paper if you sneeze at it (unless that Excelsior is the Lakota for some reason).
I always thought it was understood that a D'deridex was more than a match for a Galaxy class. Something like a 60/40 split in favor of the D'deridex if they got into a head to head fight. Bringing cloak into the mix makes it no contest. That's why the Romulans were a serious threat in TNG.
this is what a galaxy class can actually do when its not plot railroaded to lose vs a bop. the D'deridex can drop a galaxy classes shields 10% per hit with its biggest gun on ay ship super single cannon of death. that the in game model couldn't get the hardpoints in the right place for :mad:
both are battlships in terms of firepower, both with an arsenal capable of obliterating the other in a mater of seconds, it would just depend on who got the shot off first. theres a good change a galaxy would survive long enough to at least return fire even when caught flat footed.
We only have the Romulans' word that a Galaxy-class would be no match for a Warbird, right? To that I say: lol.
There are two direct battles between Starfleet and Romulan ships that I can think of right this moment. First, the Enterprise-C took on multiple warbirds of unknown type and was eventually defeated. We don't know how long that took, but it apparently wasn't a short battle.
Second, in a Voyager episode the Prometheus, an Akira, and two Defiants took on three warbirds, killed one of them dead and the other two ran.
Those examples don't particularly instill awe in Romulan space supremacy.
Game balancing notwithstanding, in the episode "Tin Man" a volley of several shots from the Romulan Warbird's main distruptors caused the Enterprise-D to suffer "seventy percent loss to main shields", and after attempting to restore power it was stated by LaForge that: "by stealing some power from the structural integrity field. You should have partial shielding in thirty minutes".
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Aren't they letting you play with the new toys yet?
I mean I can understand not letting the players at it just yet, They need to pace these things. But I would think being a Developer would give you some privileges.
The weapon hardpoints on starships are little bumps with red lights on them, pretty much universally. It can look like a nav light but not actually be one.
you are correct.
still a bit silly and a bit weird that it's the sides of the saucer
Game balancing notwithstanding, in the episode "Tin Man" a volley of several shots from the Romulan Warbird's main distruptors caused the Enterprise-D to suffer "seventy percent loss to main shields", and after attempting to restore power it was stated by LaForge that: "by stealing some power from the structural integrity field. You should have partial shielding in thirty minutes".
yep, theres just enough canon to get a good impression of them. they are exactly like the BOP is in game, comes on strong but cant hang around in a fight. seen it in the Prometheus episode, and seen it in the DS9 episode were they fought those weapon platforms, they are huge, powerful, but fragile. and plenty maneuverable for their size, but so was the galaxy but they make it turn insanely bad anyway.
the negvar, galaxy, and D'Deridex all have varying levels of tank, spike and dps, with the warbirds mostly spike, and lacking in the rest.
D'Deridex
9 spike
5 dps
3 tank
galaxy
5 spike
7 dps
5 tank
negvar
7 spike
4 dps
6 tank
id proboly rate them like this. that most powerful of all ship mounted weapons, that forward single canon the D'Deridex had can spike like mad, the weapons that cover other arcs being less powerful, and of course the fragile hull
the galaxy has 2 huge capacity torp launchers that can deliver an unparalleled stream of torps, ships with half a dozen launchers cant even match it. and the enormousness main phaser arrays, twice as long as the much smaller sovereign's longest, can hit anything it has line of sight with, with a full array discharged. that gives it high PDS, fire arc are a non issue like they are for the most powerful weapons of the other 2
klinkgon ship always struck me as extreamly sturdy, and seemed to take the least damage when hit, so it gets an edge in durability over even the galaxy. main guns all point forward, with small turrets covering other fireing angles.
And in the end every ship needs a place i mean not every ship could be an escort or somethink like this sometimes the developer must push the canon a little bit f?r the benefit of the game.
Wasn?t this thread about screens? more screens! :P
It seems strange that Cryptic has decided to make a the D'Deridex some sort of super cruiser, with really strong hulls an slow turning. Not only wil lthe slow turning make the ship increadibly unfun to play as, but I don't think there has been any indication in any other ST materials of D'Deridex's being terribly tanky. f anything, they are the ultimate glass canon. If you pay attention to dialogue in the shows, it becoems abundantly clear that Romulan captains are both highly confident of their firepower, and wary of returning fire-to the point where casting doubt on the Romulan's ability to destroy all foes before they can return fire is one of the primary and reoccuring methods used in the show of getting Romulans to back down out of confrontations. If they aren't sure they can win in the opening volley, they would prefer to come back and fight another day when they *know* they can.
Also, I'm pretty sure just about every other Star trek game out there has made warbirds glass cannons-there seems to be a general consensus abotu this issue out there, so why is Cryptic making them into slow turning, heavily armored battlecruisers? It really doesn't fit with the theme of Romulans to have them flying around what are essentially star destroyers with cloaking devices.
I think part of the blame might fall to the already existing interpretation of most Romulan NPC critter ships you presently see in-game. Namely, the overall lack in the use of the cloaking device (which, honestly, should be even more prevalent somehow than it was for the Klingons). Secondly, establishing the D'deridex as a 'battleship' style critter that's generally ponderous, but will swiftly cut down the mobility of an attacking ship to pummel it with some pretty impressive firepower (those multiple heavy plasma torpedoes volleys).
If you consider that, then the way they are portraying the playable D'deridex seems consistent. That said, I too am not fond of slow-turning ships and I've seen plenty of on screen examples of both the Galaxy and D'deridex being far swifter on screen.
This said, the interpretation of dontdrunkimshoot of a warbird's spike damage and low tanking ability seems to concur with the way they've been presented in gaming in the past (I'm thinking Starfleet Command here). Design would have them more fragile and slower turning, with the cloaking device and tremendous firepower making up for it.
Overall, I feel concerned. All throughout my youths, my impression of Romulans warbirds lay in their superior cloaking technology. Now, all Cryptic seems to really be stressing attention on is the singularity core... which to me felt only like a footnote detail. I find that bothersome - it feels too tacked on over something that ought to have been promoted far more.
It's interesting fighting them, thematically, although it's not really any different, mechanically. They just implode to do damage around them when they die instead of exploding...
I wish they would make all ships die like this.
Right now they blow up causing damage, then they thrash around for awhile like a bad Shakesperian actor flopping about the stage, and then finally explode causing more damage.
Very nice looking ship, I will probably get one. As long at it has at least 3 tac consoles and 5.999 run rate.
You know, with it being slower than a galaxy, this might finally be the side-facing weapons port cruiser we have been waiting for. Beam arrays with the overlap in front would fit with it being a hard-hitting tac cruiser.
id proboly rate them like this. that most powerful of all ship mounted weapons, that forward single canon the D'Deridex had can spike like mad, the weapons that cover other arcs being less powerful, and of course the fragile hull
Yes, that is exactly how the Romulan NPCs work. I had a bug one day to see just how much damage those Rom Rep warbird reinforcements could do. So I parsed an encounter between a D'deridex summon and three Klingon BoPs. I didn't fire a shot, just called in the warbird and evasived out.
The warbird warped in and immediately killed one of the BoPs. Grabbed it in a tractor and hit it with three heavy torps, absolutely curbstomped it. For the next minute, the other two BoPs circled around, plinking at the warbird, which beamboated back ineffectually. It managed to barely kill a second BoP before its timer ran out and it warped away.
Warbirds in STO have a tremendous alpha attack, and once that combo is on CD or the target is out of its arc, they're just space whales.
Thing did 1500 encDPS, by the way, thanks to that initial spike. Not bad for an NPC overall.
Something that just caught my eye was the size of the warbird seems a little too small in comparison to the Galaxy Class. I'm pretty sure its supposed to be almost twice the size of a Galaxy Class.
BUT I am not complaining!
Indeed. And far more out of scale is DS9! A Warbird is about 1/3 the size of DS9, and 1.75 times a Galaxy class. I really hate how poorly scaled DS9 is.
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Something that just caught my eye was the size of the warbird seems a little too small in comparison to the Galaxy Class. I'm pretty sure its supposed to be almost twice the size of a Galaxy Class.
BUT I am not complaining!
I remember they were always the sam length, Height and width. But the Warbird os much thicker, much more mass, fatter!
I'm bewildered by the attempts to map an MMO to ST canon.
No, of course the D'Deridex isn't a tank in canon (although it's not tissue paper either).
That's largely irrelevant because the Romulan faction needs a faction-ship Tank, and the D'Deridex was elected (by way of size, I imagine). There really isn't anything else to it.
Oh, I imagine that the dev team could cook up a all-new Warbird for Tanking, but that's something that will happen over time - right now, they are working with only a few ships and need to cover as many roles as possible.
I'm actually hopeful; from everything I've read "warbird" is a ship class in its own right, so it's very possible that the classical Cruiser/Escort/Science Vessel mapping isn't going to be adhered to.
So are we looking at the Singularity core explosions, as just another standard warp core explosion, or is there a nasty 'grav well' pull in, that drags a nearby ship into range of the coming explosion, making for an added bit of thrill (or just yelling at the screen,) moment?
And looking at these pics alone, not sure why I would bother playing any of the 'allied' Fed/KDF ships, when you can just wait for Fleet Romulan ships at some point, as a ten console D'bird in Fleet flavor, will probably set me for near Romulan life, though still waiting for Scimitar pics to confirm the OTHER Rommy warship, I'd love to fly.
And isn't all the conjecture about battle worthiness of the D'deridex, really 'just' conjecture, as each episode was crafted for the storyline, and less for what one would expect of canon vessel capabilities, which weren't completely, fully quantified in lore? Essentially, truly comparing them to 'our' version of canon, as far as this game goes, wouldn't be the same. One 'does' have to wonder, if the Romulan ships entering gameplay, would be 'properly' portrayed, as I'm not certain that Romulan vessels of 'this' era, are as fully war ready, compared to the war tested vessel versions, of the Feds and KDF are. Obviously once players start playing, that would change, but at baseline, could Romulan ships properly 'compete' with other two playable factions.
Comments
Screen canon, especially DS9 which had a chronic habit of blowing away anything that wasn't the hero ship just to make the bad guys look intimidating, are a bad measure for game balance and playability. This is the show that would have us believe the Defiant is a nearly unkillable flying pimp hand of death whereas the shields of ever Excelsior ever crumble like tissue paper if you sneeze at it (unless that Excelsior is the Lakota for some reason).
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM
this is what a galaxy class can actually do when its not plot railroaded to lose vs a bop. the D'deridex can drop a galaxy classes shields 10% per hit with its biggest gun on ay ship super single cannon of death. that the in game model couldn't get the hardpoints in the right place for :mad:
both are battlships in terms of firepower, both with an arsenal capable of obliterating the other in a mater of seconds, it would just depend on who got the shot off first. theres a good change a galaxy would survive long enough to at least return fire even when caught flat footed.
being an art student learning about art direction. i understand its absolutely the most difficult part of any composition.
There are two direct battles between Starfleet and Romulan ships that I can think of right this moment. First, the Enterprise-C took on multiple warbirds of unknown type and was eventually defeated. We don't know how long that took, but it apparently wasn't a short battle.
Second, in a Voyager episode the Prometheus, an Akira, and two Defiants took on three warbirds, killed one of them dead and the other two ran.
Those examples don't particularly instill awe in Romulan space supremacy.
Then there's this tap on the shoulder encounter.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
:::munch:::munch:::munch:::
M'MERMRIMEFFF! M'MERMRIMEFFF! M'MERMRIMEFFF! M'MERMRIMEFFF! M'MERMRIMEFFF!
You crack me up. :P
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
isn't that a bad language thing? Where's a moderator to control such obscene language! *grabs cookies and milk and runs away*
I ... I think I love you.
I mean ... D'Deridex! Whoo!
Leave it to you to crack everyone up XD *I call dibs on naming my D'deridex after M'MERMRIMEFFF!
Aren't they letting you play with the new toys yet?
I mean I can understand not letting the players at it just yet, They need to pace these things. But I would think being a Developer would give you some privileges.
you are correct.
still a bit silly and a bit weird that it's the sides of the saucer
If you don't post pics for all of us to see, I will be very, very sad.
yep, theres just enough canon to get a good impression of them. they are exactly like the BOP is in game, comes on strong but cant hang around in a fight. seen it in the Prometheus episode, and seen it in the DS9 episode were they fought those weapon platforms, they are huge, powerful, but fragile. and plenty maneuverable for their size, but so was the galaxy but they make it turn insanely bad anyway.
the negvar, galaxy, and D'Deridex all have varying levels of tank, spike and dps, with the warbirds mostly spike, and lacking in the rest.
D'Deridex
9 spike
5 dps
3 tank
galaxy
5 spike
7 dps
5 tank
negvar
7 spike
4 dps
6 tank
id proboly rate them like this. that most powerful of all ship mounted weapons, that forward single canon the D'Deridex had can spike like mad, the weapons that cover other arcs being less powerful, and of course the fragile hull
the galaxy has 2 huge capacity torp launchers that can deliver an unparalleled stream of torps, ships with half a dozen launchers cant even match it. and the enormousness main phaser arrays, twice as long as the much smaller sovereign's longest, can hit anything it has line of sight with, with a full array discharged. that gives it high PDS, fire arc are a non issue like they are for the most powerful weapons of the other 2
klinkgon ship always struck me as extreamly sturdy, and seemed to take the least damage when hit, so it gets an edge in durability over even the galaxy. main guns all point forward, with small turrets covering other fireing angles.
Wasn?t this thread about screens? more screens! :P
Also, I'm pretty sure just about every other Star trek game out there has made warbirds glass cannons-there seems to be a general consensus abotu this issue out there, so why is Cryptic making them into slow turning, heavily armored battlecruisers? It really doesn't fit with the theme of Romulans to have them flying around what are essentially star destroyers with cloaking devices.
If you consider that, then the way they are portraying the playable D'deridex seems consistent. That said, I too am not fond of slow-turning ships and I've seen plenty of on screen examples of both the Galaxy and D'deridex being far swifter on screen.
This said, the interpretation of dontdrunkimshoot of a warbird's spike damage and low tanking ability seems to concur with the way they've been presented in gaming in the past (I'm thinking Starfleet Command here). Design would have them more fragile and slower turning, with the cloaking device and tremendous firepower making up for it.
Overall, I feel concerned. All throughout my youths, my impression of Romulans warbirds lay in their superior cloaking technology. Now, all Cryptic seems to really be stressing attention on is the singularity core... which to me felt only like a footnote detail. I find that bothersome - it feels too tacked on over something that ought to have been promoted far more.
I wish they would make all ships die like this.
Right now they blow up causing damage, then they thrash around for awhile like a bad Shakesperian actor flopping about the stage, and then finally explode causing more damage.
You know, with it being slower than a galaxy, this might finally be the side-facing weapons port cruiser we have been waiting for. Beam arrays with the overlap in front would fit with it being a hard-hitting tac cruiser.
Yes, that is exactly how the Romulan NPCs work. I had a bug one day to see just how much damage those Rom Rep warbird reinforcements could do. So I parsed an encounter between a D'deridex summon and three Klingon BoPs. I didn't fire a shot, just called in the warbird and evasived out.
The warbird warped in and immediately killed one of the BoPs. Grabbed it in a tractor and hit it with three heavy torps, absolutely curbstomped it. For the next minute, the other two BoPs circled around, plinking at the warbird, which beamboated back ineffectually. It managed to barely kill a second BoP before its timer ran out and it warped away.
Warbirds in STO have a tremendous alpha attack, and once that combo is on CD or the target is out of its arc, they're just space whales.
Thing did 1500 encDPS, by the way, thanks to that initial spike. Not bad for an NPC overall.
Indeed. And far more out of scale is DS9! A Warbird is about 1/3 the size of DS9, and 1.75 times a Galaxy class. I really hate how poorly scaled DS9 is.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
I remember they were always the sam length, Height and width. But the Warbird os much thicker, much more mass, fatter!
No, of course the D'Deridex isn't a tank in canon (although it's not tissue paper either).
That's largely irrelevant because the Romulan faction needs a faction-ship Tank, and the D'Deridex was elected (by way of size, I imagine). There really isn't anything else to it.
Oh, I imagine that the dev team could cook up a all-new Warbird for Tanking, but that's something that will happen over time - right now, they are working with only a few ships and need to cover as many roles as possible.
I'm actually hopeful; from everything I've read "warbird" is a ship class in its own right, so it's very possible that the classical Cruiser/Escort/Science Vessel mapping isn't going to be adhered to.
And looking at these pics alone, not sure why I would bother playing any of the 'allied' Fed/KDF ships, when you can just wait for Fleet Romulan ships at some point, as a ten console D'bird in Fleet flavor, will probably set me for near Romulan life, though still waiting for Scimitar pics to confirm the OTHER Rommy warship, I'd love to fly.
And isn't all the conjecture about battle worthiness of the D'deridex, really 'just' conjecture, as each episode was crafted for the storyline, and less for what one would expect of canon vessel capabilities, which weren't completely, fully quantified in lore? Essentially, truly comparing them to 'our' version of canon, as far as this game goes, wouldn't be the same. One 'does' have to wonder, if the Romulan ships entering gameplay, would be 'properly' portrayed, as I'm not certain that Romulan vessels of 'this' era, are as fully war ready, compared to the war tested vessel versions, of the Feds and KDF are. Obviously once players start playing, that would change, but at baseline, could Romulan ships properly 'compete' with other two playable factions.