Back when I only played Klingon side I sometimes saw 20 to 30 Klingons queuing for FvK, long after the last fed left the queue, waiting hours to get a match. I myself always queued KvK, but even in these situations Klingons were afraid of playing against themselves. Other Klingon players in this thread who are excusing the issue are deluding themselves.
so those goofs can all go back to there time stepping aoe slowing bug running cheese ball fed teams) lol
You can do the same thing on either faction.
The federation has better ships (outside of a few nice BoP builds), but all of the best ships are in cross faction lock-boxes and the Klingons have better toys. Most PvP fleets still choose to play federation in spite of the fact that they could make a more powerful Klingon team because it's far easier to get matches fed side.
FvK was ruined the moment when spam hit the matches. WH4000 ship or that Orion (think it was Orion?) carrier launching support fighters and some occasional BoP was one thing. Turning the match into Player vs PvE was another. And as Klinks got more and more such spam, available on more and more ships queues got emptier and emptier.
FvK queues are empty because of cheese, wine and spam. Not only Klink-side, but general reputation and Fleet and whatever else too.
And not because Feds are afraid or because Klink players are better (they usually are, at least "old" Klinks). Before F2P Klinks were just as good, even better cause there were more "oldies" and less new ones from F2P (those mostly sucks). Yet FvK was still pretty alive, almost as much as FvF. Even with most Fed PUGs getting their asses handed to them. Heck, even pre-dilithium FvK queues were pretty full.
Cryptic and it's greed killed FvK (and generaly PvP) and players happily helped. So - do not complain, do not try to tell that Feds are afraid. Some perhaps are. But most simply don't like to fight all this spam Klinks are throwing around. Feds are no better, but there is still less valuable Fed spam then there is Klink spam.
Wanna know the real truth? The truth is...
All the evul Klinguns are noobs piloting OP ships with toy consoles and broken abilities...
The KvK queues never pop because the evul Klinguns don't want being ganked by themselves...
The real truth is all of the good Klingons retired or went Fed side exclusively.
Poor Klingons are going to get played even less once the Romulans hit.
I just had a FvK match... the kdf team spammed pets and aceton assimilators... Simply I wasn't able to do nothing. I had my system disabled by 4 sources of power draining. There was no fun.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Poor Klingons are going to get played even less once the Romulans hit.
This is definitely where it's going to be interesting to see how they handle the queues and what they do with PvP in general. Suppose we'll find out some starting tomorrow (maybe) with the Ask Cryptic and then next week as the Dev Blogs start up...
In my opinion, the klingon ships are not overpowered at all. I've played on both sides, and the federation escorts have always had a significant advantage over the klingon escorts.
What I have noticed is this:
1) The majority of klingon players play PvP a lot... and I mean a lot...
2) The majority of federation players play PvP for their dilithium.
Most FvK battles go...
a) Klingons fly to the center of the arena within 10km of each other, some cloaked, some not (more so not now with the lockbox ships, carriers, etc.)
b) Klingons tend to watch targets more on what enemy is taking damage. They see an enemy start to take damage, they switch targets and go for the weaker one - blood in the water... They don't even need to communicate this.. they just do it...
c) Klingons tend to distribute shields, move around more, and get out of enemy weapon arcs more.
d) Normally one or two federation ships will full impulse into the center leaving behind their teammates. Then as they take fire from 5 klingon ships and start dying (or die), a couple more fed ships arrive too late, and they are put completely on the defensive... fighting to survive.
e) Many times there is one fed ship that is an afker and sits at the gate
f) Many of the other feds don't PvP enough, or try hard enough, and barely distribute their shields
g) That leaves the good fed players to continually die due to no teamwork
My experience at a FvK with equal skilled players on both sides...
a) Feds win more often... hard to break though a good teams defenses
b) Klingons tend to get kicked around by sci vessells quite a bit locking them down
Now with that said... from my experience, it appears that over 80% of klingons are at least "good" at PvP, where only about 35% of feds are. This means that feds are at a disadvantage in most matches... not because of the ships, but due to 2-3 of their side dieing quickly as they are not skilled enough.
I fly in klingon pugs a lot (75% of the time), and I used to fly in fed pugs... for klingons, if I call a target, I can guarentee that at least 1 if not 2 will attack the target I call - even though I'm in a pug... on the fed side, 80% of the time, no-one attacks the target I call... everyone is doing their own thing...
The only advantage I give to the klingons is the cloaked strike... if they coordinate, they can take out at least one target right away, then then have a chance to put the other side on the defensive... so it plays as 5v4 (one fed respawning most of the time)
From playing chess a lot... initiative is very important... you get the initiative, and you keep it, don't let the other side recover... klingons tend to do this well even in pugs without communication... it just doesn't happen often in fed pugs...
When romulan faction is released, it will be interesting to see how well klingons maintain the initiative.
This is definitely where it's going to be interesting to see how they handle the queues and what they do with PvP in general. Suppose we'll find out some starting tomorrow (maybe) with the Ask Cryptic and then next week as the Dev Blogs start up...
They've already told us. PvP will become cross faction, teams will be composed of a mix of factions. Ok, they didn't say it quite like that but surely everyone remembers how a possible solution to the toy console imbalance was to mix the queues? It was on a podcast interview, and I believe it was.... Geko that said that?
This is assuming they don't run out of time (looks at the Kumari launch) and have time to do something more than adding extra categories for FvR, RvK, and RvR.
Sometimes you trade one of the above for a Hoh'sus or another B'rel, or one or the other for a Kar'Fi, but...
what you posted is NOT a typical grouping of KDF.
I wouldn't say that is the typical group I see (the one you posted) - and my list was definitely not meant to be the typical one.
That's kind of been my thing in this thread. FvK can be a blast (win or lose) - for the most part (though that's dependent on when you play)... but every now and again, might be once a week or once every couple of weeks (again, dependent on when you play) - you're going to run into something in the FvK queues that may leave you not wanting to PvP again for an extended period of time.
FvK can be a blast, like I've kept saying. But you can run into groups, where it's just not fun. Given the smaller numbers, you're more likely to keep running into them if you continue to queue it. Even back with the Fed Time TRIBBLE stuff that made the game unplayable and forced a restart, the odds of running into that group again and again after that restart was pretty low.
I think the FvK queues and the KDF in general get a bum rap from just a small group of KDF. People apply that to all KDF and that is how the queue always is...when that's just not the case.
There's a vast difference between the potential and the typical. Too many folks first run into the potential or only remember that potential...they forget about the typical and how that can actually be fun (win or lose - it can be fun)...
I just had a FvK match... the kdf team spammed pets and aceton assimilators... Simply I wasn't able to do nothing. I had my system disabled by 4 sources of power draining. There was no fun.
When you see a team like that, EWP, Theta, Scramble + biologist doff their asses to hell and back.
PSW + aftershock doff is funny too.
And watch how quickly they fall apart when someone calls them out on their weak strategy.
...whether it's actually FvF, FvK, or KvK, it will be:
RvR
/cough
Some way...
Some how...
I will find a way to fit a battle cloak to my Vesta. :cool:
In all seriousness, though, it looks like the FED vs KDF war might actually, maybe, kind of, sometime between now and universal heat death, become interesting.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Grim, if you're serious, a "battle cloak" should be pretty easy to add to any Fed-side ship.
1) Get rid of any lingering DoT effects. (HE?)
2) Smash your "run awaaaay!" buttons, and use Photonic Displacer to "cloak" in combat
3) Escape combat and use the 15s PD duration to exit Red Alert status
4) Use MES to give yourself a more permanent "cloak".
It's not perfect (MES and PD aren't true cloaks, and I think you'll have to drop PD for an instant before you can hit MES), but I think it should be close enough. :P
Comments
You can do the same thing on either faction.
The federation has better ships (outside of a few nice BoP builds), but all of the best ships are in cross faction lock-boxes and the Klingons have better toys. Most PvP fleets still choose to play federation in spite of the fact that they could make a more powerful Klingon team because it's far easier to get matches fed side.
FvK queues are empty because of cheese, wine and spam. Not only Klink-side, but general reputation and Fleet and whatever else too.
And not because Feds are afraid or because Klink players are better (they usually are, at least "old" Klinks). Before F2P Klinks were just as good, even better cause there were more "oldies" and less new ones from F2P (those mostly sucks). Yet FvK was still pretty alive, almost as much as FvF. Even with most Fed PUGs getting their asses handed to them. Heck, even pre-dilithium FvK queues were pretty full.
Cryptic and it's greed killed FvK (and generaly PvP) and players happily helped. So - do not complain, do not try to tell that Feds are afraid. Some perhaps are. But most simply don't like to fight all this spam Klinks are throwing around. Feds are no better, but there is still less valuable Fed spam then there is Klink spam.
The real truth is all of the good Klingons retired or went Fed side exclusively.
Poor Klingons are going to get played even less once the Romulans hit.
That is the truth, many did and many did.
Im an old klink though not a very good one.
R.I.P
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
This is definitely where it's going to be interesting to see how they handle the queues and what they do with PvP in general. Suppose we'll find out some starting tomorrow (maybe) with the Ask Cryptic and then next week as the Dev Blogs start up...
Vo'Quv w/ Advanced Siphon Drones
Korath
Guramba
JHAS
Recluse w/ Advanced Interceptors
Varanus w/ Advanced Interceptors
JHEC w/ Elite Scorpions
Fleet Tor'Kaht
Peghqu'
edit: This isn't a list of OP ships, btw. It's one of those 2x5 10 man groups where you might consider not hitting respawn.
What I have noticed is this:
1) The majority of klingon players play PvP a lot... and I mean a lot...
2) The majority of federation players play PvP for their dilithium.
Most FvK battles go...
a) Klingons fly to the center of the arena within 10km of each other, some cloaked, some not (more so not now with the lockbox ships, carriers, etc.)
b) Klingons tend to watch targets more on what enemy is taking damage. They see an enemy start to take damage, they switch targets and go for the weaker one - blood in the water... They don't even need to communicate this.. they just do it...
c) Klingons tend to distribute shields, move around more, and get out of enemy weapon arcs more.
d) Normally one or two federation ships will full impulse into the center leaving behind their teammates. Then as they take fire from 5 klingon ships and start dying (or die), a couple more fed ships arrive too late, and they are put completely on the defensive... fighting to survive.
e) Many times there is one fed ship that is an afker and sits at the gate
f) Many of the other feds don't PvP enough, or try hard enough, and barely distribute their shields
g) That leaves the good fed players to continually die due to no teamwork
My experience at a FvK with equal skilled players on both sides...
a) Feds win more often... hard to break though a good teams defenses
b) Klingons tend to get kicked around by sci vessells quite a bit locking them down
Now with that said... from my experience, it appears that over 80% of klingons are at least "good" at PvP, where only about 35% of feds are. This means that feds are at a disadvantage in most matches... not because of the ships, but due to 2-3 of their side dieing quickly as they are not skilled enough.
I fly in klingon pugs a lot (75% of the time), and I used to fly in fed pugs... for klingons, if I call a target, I can guarentee that at least 1 if not 2 will attack the target I call - even though I'm in a pug... on the fed side, 80% of the time, no-one attacks the target I call... everyone is doing their own thing...
The only advantage I give to the klingons is the cloaked strike... if they coordinate, they can take out at least one target right away, then then have a chance to put the other side on the defensive... so it plays as 5v4 (one fed respawning most of the time)
From playing chess a lot... initiative is very important... you get the initiative, and you keep it, don't let the other side recover... klingons tend to do this well even in pugs without communication... it just doesn't happen often in fed pugs...
When romulan faction is released, it will be interesting to see how well klingons maintain the initiative.
Shhhh! KvK is like Fight Club, its well hidden and no one talks about it
They've already told us. PvP will become cross faction, teams will be composed of a mix of factions. Ok, they didn't say it quite like that but surely everyone remembers how a possible solution to the toy console imbalance was to mix the queues? It was on a podcast interview, and I believe it was.... Geko that said that?
This is assuming they don't run out of time (looks at the Kumari launch) and have time to do something more than adding extra categories for FvR, RvK, and RvR.
Wow. Just wow. That's all I got.
BTW, nice ignore spam. The vape is strong with you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nice ignore spam? Er?
I wouldn't say that is the typical group I see (the one you posted) - and my list was definitely not meant to be the typical one.
That's kind of been my thing in this thread. FvK can be a blast (win or lose) - for the most part (though that's dependent on when you play)... but every now and again, might be once a week or once every couple of weeks (again, dependent on when you play) - you're going to run into something in the FvK queues that may leave you not wanting to PvP again for an extended period of time.
FvK can be a blast, like I've kept saying. But you can run into groups, where it's just not fun. Given the smaller numbers, you're more likely to keep running into them if you continue to queue it. Even back with the Fed Time TRIBBLE stuff that made the game unplayable and forced a restart, the odds of running into that group again and again after that restart was pretty low.
I think the FvK queues and the KDF in general get a bum rap from just a small group of KDF. People apply that to all KDF and that is how the queue always is...when that's just not the case.
There's a vast difference between the potential and the typical. Too many folks first run into the potential or only remember that potential...they forget about the typical and how that can actually be fun (win or lose - it can be fun)...
When you see a team like that, EWP, Theta, Scramble + biologist doff their asses to hell and back.
PSW + aftershock doff is funny too.
And watch how quickly they fall apart when someone calls them out on their weak strategy.
...whether it's actually FvF, FvK, or KvK, it will be:
RvR
/cough
Some way...
Some how...
I will find a way to fit a battle cloak to my Vesta. :cool:
In all seriousness, though, it looks like the FED vs KDF war might actually, maybe, kind of, sometime between now and universal heat death, become interesting.
1) Get rid of any lingering DoT effects. (HE?)
2) Smash your "run awaaaay!" buttons, and use Photonic Displacer to "cloak" in combat
3) Escape combat and use the 15s PD duration to exit Red Alert status
4) Use MES to give yourself a more permanent "cloak".
It's not perfect (MES and PD aren't true cloaks, and I think you'll have to drop PD for an instant before you can hit MES), but I think it should be close enough. :P