Personally, I'm all for removing SNB from the game and rebalancing everything as if it didn't exist. It's silly how much PvP hinges on that ability...yet in PvE? /cough
A tactical captain making scientific powers more effective?
Why not have Worf sit at the Science station of the Enterprise so he can really rip apart any threat to the Enterprise using the Enterprise's science abilities? Sound foolish? Of course it is, yet that foolishness is conveniently ignored when it comes to tac captains wanting the very best for themselves as they think of themselves as royalty.
As I posted in another thread, I was in a PvP with a Vesta. I had 125 Aux and I have 9 in particle generators and I use one purple Mk XII particle generator console. I was attacked by an Andorian escort piloted by a tac captain AWAY from the main battle, as in just him, just me. As he closed in to attack attack I hit Feedback pulse III, Tactical Team I, EPtS II and Pol Hull I.
In less than 5 seconds he had ripped through my shields, destroyed my hull and had 93% of his hull left. It's an Andorian escort, a supposed glass cannon.
How is this fair? Why should non escort, non tactical people suffer like this.
Ordinarily I'd be playing STO about this time of the day. Don't really feel like it now. I'm thinking that I (and my wallet) need to take a break from the game. Fairness is hardly an improper request of any game yet so many blatantly selfish people can't bear to have their set-ups changed without crying foul. Cryptic, YOU have allowed this mentality to thrive. You don't have the conviction to make a fair game. A VERY cowardly act. Shame on you.
Personally, I'm all for removing SNB from the game and rebalancing everything as if it didn't exist. It's silly how much PvP hinges on that ability...yet in PvE? /cough
I realize that you seem to have a particular pet peeve with captain skills and basically post at least every few days advocating the removal of SNB from the game.
Regardless, here is Bort and by extension the systems team weighing in on SNB.
Not likely to be changed from its current state. Its relative value in combat scenarios is felt to be more-or-less on par with other professions' Captain Powers, such as Attack Pattern Alpha, Go Down Fighting, Miracle Worker and Rotate Shield Frequencies.
Perhaps it's better to focus your energies on things that are realistic rather than hoping the current game mechanics will be almost completely re-written?
nah, it's cool, but its impressive how the community reacts to this kind of things, everything is cool for em, but they whine in game like some tasmanian devils, it's unfair that tacs can boost
every single thing in the game, subnuke is not what you think ussu, you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage, even if you dont have a science team to clear the effect of subnuke, but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists, and scientists dont have that kind of synergy on tactical skills, anyway, fbp need's to stop beeing boosted by tacs, fbp is reaching absurd numbers without prtg or any aux at all, at least in that someone's gotta agree
you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage,
Unless of course Subnuc was used to remove RSP, and Tac Team and APA.
It's the THE trump card, and unlike virus who thinks it should be removed from the game - I do not.
Subnuc is exactly where it should be.
Properly used it is the ultimate force multiplier, the king of setting up kills.
but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists,
You're not talking about captain skills you are only talking about tacs that can boost science skills through their captain skills?
Or how else are tac captains buffing those science skills "better"?
And in this case "better" to you means "more damage", which is missing the point of Sci captains.
This might come as a terrible shock, but Tac captains are the class intended to do the most damage.
yes, science officeres rule, although you are a tac
please, stop quoting every single thread i do, i can see you are fine with tacs doing sci's job better than scientists, causing the nerf of science skills
and it's amazing how you didn't speak about fbp, yes tacs should be the ones making more damage, but they shouldn't mess with the other classes, they should only boost weapons and projectile trainning, all kind of consoles work better on tacs, and AGAIN, how can tacs boost the incoming damage, making a fbp2 without prtg to reach 1.3 reflection ? i can't reach 0.9 in my fbp3 with prtg maxed and 125 aux
imagine a chel grett with 2 copies of fbp, reaching those too high numbers, that would cause the enemy to not attack you, giving you the tanking, the damage part should be easy with the tac stations, dont you think it is op?
yes virus i should make this post on the pve section, they at least, dont simply make a tac, and just sit because they have the best class/skills/ships, tanking as good as the other classes, and boosting every single skill and console they can
and let me explain something to you, since it seems you never played a sci at all
sensor scan is cleared by science team, just like fire on my mark is by tac team, that synergy you talk is wrong, its very easy to counter a subnuke and a sensor scan combo, you just need a science team, and a rsp waiting
dont tell me a science strike is better than a tac's just because you saw your rsp3 or whatever taken away
only have one thing to add (which may probably already was stated. did not read the whole thread now):
tacs do the damage, yep. but in pvp scis kill! that simple.
nothing can be more effective than a good specced sci in wells, vesta, fleet-recon-vessel, (add your fav). this i had to learn the hard way ;D...
thx.
btw: i do not know a single tac-scort who carries sci-team at all, due to shared cd with tt ^^ (may i do but do not know about )...
nah, it's cool, but its impressive how the community reacts to this kind of things, everything is cool for em, but they whine in game like some tasmanian devils, it's unfair that tacs can boost
every single thing in the game, subnuke is not what you think ussu, you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage, even if you dont have a science team to clear the effect of subnuke, but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists, and scientists dont have that kind of synergy on tactical skills, anyway, fbp need's to stop beeing boosted by tacs, fbp is reaching absurd numbers without prtg or any aux at all, at least in that someone's gotta agree
I agree from the standpoint of when sci in a sci ship is alone it shows, instead of nerfing the science skills they should have nerfed the tact captains ability to boost certain skills, it's really poor balance technique because not all pvpers pvp 100% of the time nor should they be required to do so to do anything.
It's kinda like giving your medic buddy rubber bullets while you keep the real bullets because you're tactical and the only time he can do any damage is when you switch out his ammo temporarily while you two are fighting together. The moment he goes back to fighting solo without your bullets to improve his damage output he's screwed.
That's what I'm seeing. Science skills are the key reason why space travel is possible in this game and because of science skills on captains extra damage can unfold not to mention CC but for some reason the devs have it in their head that science skills don't really do what they did in the series so science skills on a science captain are pretty much useless for the most part unless you are dealing with healing and even then....
Ever try to heal on the ground as a science captain? Same thing applies. It's far easier to heal as an engineer on the ground then it is to heal as a science captain, it's like they've forgotten that doctors in sick bays were where everyone went to get healing especially in battle situations. Just beam down a device bla bla blah and everyone thinks that's perfectly normal.
Completely wonky and non canon stuff going on here.
yes if repulsors, psw, gw, or fbp are in the build, plus some uni consoles, yes im pretty much convinced it would
because tac's could boost those dmg makers, and sci's dont have that kind of effect in boff skills or consoles
the rest is a captain skill battle wich i believe its very balanced, leaving sci's with no extra boost on the ship's effect
only chance i see is the subnuke clearing a couple captain skills, but the tac guy would be too stupid if he just popped all the skills at once
yes if repulsors, psw, gw, or fbp are in the build, plus some uni consoles, yes im pretty much convinced it would
because tac's can boost those dmg makers, and sci's dont have that kind of effect in boff skills or consoles
the rest is a captain skill battle wich i believe its very balanced, leaving sci's with no extra boost on the ship's effect
...
--> sn
--> vm
--> ss
--> fbp
--> shield strip
--> cluster transphasics/hy plasma (what a lot of scis seem to run in pvp these days)
...
---> (add your own crappy sci-tactic ;D)...
........
what can i do as a tac against such attacks? almost nothing without a sci on side!
and if i focus on sci abilities as a tac to run on my build? i probably will loose a lot of survivability i guess. where to put he, where to put tss f.e.?
....this leads to nowhere i guess, because it's mostly about believe and feeling. test it out and you will know for sure, that's my suggestion ...
btw: own no more respec tokens, so i'm out from testing ;(...
too bad shield strip sucks
scramble sensors does nothing against a skilled player
viral matrix sucks now with human boffs giving 100% subsystem repair plus it can't disable shields and it is countered by engineering team
cluster and high yeld plasmas are not skills, and they can be boosted better by tacs
leaving you with repulsors which was nerfed because of tacs
and fbp which can be stupidly boosted by tacs even without prtg
too bad shield strip sucks
scramble sensors does nothing against a skilled player
viral matrix sucks now with human boffs giving 100% subsystem repair plus it can't disable shields and it is countered by engineering team
and the cluster and high yeld plasmas can be boosted better by tacs
leaving you with repulsors which was nerfed because of tacs
and fbp which can be stupidly boosted by tacs even without prtg
i said with the same build btw
...shield strip kills ^^...
ss always at least confuses
vm is absolutely effective (running 3 humans on most of my builds)
...again: shared cd with tt. so no fun in et without an rsp ready ^^
...where the sn has gone?! ...
torps can be better boosted by tacs, yep.... they're tacs... but again:
tacs do damage.
scis kill.
don't believe it?
again: test it out proper before asking for a nerf plz ... means: get a tac-bud with respec tokens (buy him some ), and just test it.
of course tacs do more damage. you complain about boosted sci-damage from tacs. then checkout the full effectiveness of the sci-class to see if this really is an issue. it's not from here, absolutely .
...may i try it from the other side later (giving my sci-boffs the suggested abilites, grabbing my wells and see if i can do more damage than with current abilites.... my guess: i will just die a lot more due to less survivability).
shield strip kills ... scramble at least confuses, vm is absolutelly effective...
we are playing star trek online and this is its forum, wake up !
tacs do damage, scis kill ? how can you kill someone without damage ?
the objective of scientists is to use alternative ways of dmaging, or skills that makes the enemy vulnerable
but since those alternative ways of damage were nerfed a lot
and there are no windows of oportunity because they were nerfed
shield stripping is so useless that i feel bad for saying it
well, the rest, the rest is energy siphon that i think it is the only viable option that tacs can't touch
and fbp/repulsors that tac's can boost a lot
try 2 copies of fbp or repulsors in those 2 builds, and let me know who won lol
we are playing star trek online and this is its forum, wake up !
tacs do damage, scis kill ? how can you kill someone without damage ?
lol... you ever pvp?! i really start to ask myself if that is the case ^^.... they kill by shutting down, debuffing, etc.... how many times a sci comes on side and just perform the tactic as described? a lot of times.... and how many times it works? quite more often than you seem to believe...
shield strip isn't effective? .... check, i'm out. have fun in the forums or wake up and start to learn and play the game :rolleyes:...
they should only boost weapons and projectile trainning, all kind of consoles work better on tacs
Then when a Sci captain uses SNB (removes protection) or SS (debuffs resistance) they should not be able to use any weapons or tactical skills or skills like Warp Plasma correct?
and AGAIN, how can tacs boost the incoming damage, making a fbp2 without prtg to reach 1.3 reflection ? i can't reach 0.9 in my fbp3 with prtg maxed and 125 aux
You, are quite clearly, focusing on the wrong aspects of what a Sci captain should be doing.
Once again, it comes down to the role that Sci plays in PvP vs. the role in PvE (and what is required in PvE)...which is why I still feel that the thread is not going to get the same response here in the PvP forums that it would elsewhere.
If PvE were more like PvP, then there would be less discussion - eh? It's not though...
Once again, it comes down to the role that Sci plays in PvP vs. the role in PvE (and what is required in PvE)...which is why I still feel that the thread is not going to get the same response here in the PvP forums that it would elsewhere.
If PvE were more like PvP, then there would be less discussion - eh? It's not though...
borgresearcher stated directly in his first post in the thread that these are his concerns regarding PvP.
It's a PvP conversation in the PvP forum, because it is about a PvP concern.
Once again, it comes down to the role that Sci plays in PvP vs. the role in PvE (and what is required in PvE)...which is why I still feel that the thread is not going to get the same response here in the PvP forums that it would elsewhere.
If PvE were more like PvP, then there would be less discussion - eh? It's not though...
but tactical not boosting 4 sci skills inst going to make sci captains deal more damage in pve. but thats par for the course of pve'er logic
but tactical not boosting 4 sci skills inst going to make sci captains deal more damage in pve. but thats par for the course of pve'er logic
Based on the thought process expressed in similar threads not in the PvP forums - they're talking about the following two things happening:
Remove Tac ability to boost damage for those abilities.
Boost the damage of those abilities.
So it would result in an increased amount of damage on their part in PvE.
My KDF Sci runs a no-Tac Heght'a (3 Sci/1 Eng) - he's there for debuff/control - tank busting, spam denial, movement control, heal interruption, etc, etc, etc.
My Fed Sci is there to detect cloakers - decloak them - tackle them/debuff them - toss a heal/help against alphas - etc, etc, etc.
They're both facilitators. They're not damage guys. They're all but useless in PvE because of that. Anything they do, a Tac could actually do better if it was even warranted doing...which in the majority of cases it is not.
So with borg talking about damage - I see it as a PvE discussion. There's just so much that a Sci can do other than damage when it comes to PvP...
They're both facilitators. They're not damage guys. They're all but useless in PvE because of that. Anything they do, a Tac could actually do better if it was even warranted doing...which in the majority of cases it is not.
So with borg talking about damage - I see it as a PvE discussion. There's just so much that a Sci can do other than damage when it comes to PvP...
That's a PvE environment design issue and not an issue with Subnuc.
Comments
Why not have Worf sit at the Science station of the Enterprise so he can really rip apart any threat to the Enterprise using the Enterprise's science abilities? Sound foolish? Of course it is, yet that foolishness is conveniently ignored when it comes to tac captains wanting the very best for themselves as they think of themselves as royalty.
As I posted in another thread, I was in a PvP with a Vesta. I had 125 Aux and I have 9 in particle generators and I use one purple Mk XII particle generator console. I was attacked by an Andorian escort piloted by a tac captain AWAY from the main battle, as in just him, just me. As he closed in to attack attack I hit Feedback pulse III, Tactical Team I, EPtS II and Pol Hull I.
In less than 5 seconds he had ripped through my shields, destroyed my hull and had 93% of his hull left. It's an Andorian escort, a supposed glass cannon.
How is this fair? Why should non escort, non tactical people suffer like this.
Ordinarily I'd be playing STO about this time of the day. Don't really feel like it now. I'm thinking that I (and my wallet) need to take a break from the game. Fairness is hardly an improper request of any game yet so many blatantly selfish people can't bear to have their set-ups changed without crying foul. Cryptic, YOU have allowed this mentality to thrive. You don't have the conviction to make a fair game. A VERY cowardly act. Shame on you.
I realize that you seem to have a particular pet peeve with captain skills and basically post at least every few days advocating the removal of SNB from the game.
Regardless, here is Bort and by extension the systems team weighing in on SNB.
Perhaps it's better to focus your energies on things that are realistic rather than hoping the current game mechanics will be almost completely re-written?
every single thing in the game, subnuke is not what you think ussu, you can use st to clear it, and you might still use teams, for example, if you are subnuked, you still can use tactical team or rsp to mitigate some damage, even if you dont have a science team to clear the effect of subnuke, but we are not talking about captain skills, the only captain skill i think its really bad is nadion inversion, im talking that tacs can boost sci skills better than scientists, and scientists dont have that kind of synergy on tactical skills, anyway, fbp need's to stop beeing boosted by tacs, fbp is reaching absurd numbers without prtg or any aux at all, at least in that someone's gotta agree
No, it is in fact exactly what I think it is.
I have the good fortune of regularly playing with some truly amazing Sci players.
Unless of course Subnuc was used to remove RSP, and Tac Team and APA.
It's the THE trump card, and unlike virus who thinks it should be removed from the game - I do not.
Subnuc is exactly where it should be.
Properly used it is the ultimate force multiplier, the king of setting up kills.
I see no issue with this.
Clear subnuc?
Clearing subnuc is the booby prize, against a well played Sci when you've been subnuc'd the damage has often already been done.
Either your best buffs have stripped and you are dead, or your APA as a Tac or RSF as an Eng have been stripped off of you.
You're not talking about captain skills you are only talking about tacs that can boost science skills through their captain skills?
Or how else are tac captains buffing those science skills "better"?
And in this case "better" to you means "more damage", which is missing the point of Sci captains.
This might come as a terrible shock, but Tac captains are the class intended to do the most damage.
Except I've already explained the synergy to you.
It's SNB + SS.
They don't create big, easy to see, pretty number floaters on your screen.
They are the kings of force multiplication.
That synergy you keep talking about?
They have that synergy for entire teams, every weapon your team has, every offensive power and sci debuff your team has.
The synergy is there, it's just not written in numbers on the screen for players to see.
please, stop quoting every single thread i do, i can see you are fine with tacs doing sci's job better than scientists, causing the nerf of science skills
and it's amazing how you didn't speak about fbp, yes tacs should be the ones making more damage, but they shouldn't mess with the other classes, they should only boost weapons and projectile trainning, all kind of consoles work better on tacs, and AGAIN, how can tacs boost the incoming damage, making a fbp2 without prtg to reach 1.3 reflection ? i can't reach 0.9 in my fbp3 with prtg maxed and 125 aux
imagine a chel grett with 2 copies of fbp, reaching those too high numbers, that would cause the enemy to not attack you, giving you the tanking, the damage part should be easy with the tac stations, dont you think it is op?
yes virus i should make this post on the pve section, they at least, dont simply make a tac, and just sit because they have the best class/skills/ships, tanking as good as the other classes, and boosting every single skill and console they can
and let me explain something to you, since it seems you never played a sci at all
sensor scan is cleared by science team, just like fire on my mark is by tac team, that synergy you talk is wrong, its very easy to counter a subnuke and a sensor scan combo, you just need a science team, and a rsp waiting
dont tell me a science strike is better than a tac's just because you saw your rsp3 or whatever taken away
you can BS your dog, but please, don't BS me
tacs do the damage, yep. but in pvp scis kill! that simple.
nothing can be more effective than a good specced sci in wells, vesta, fleet-recon-vessel, (add your fav). this i had to learn the hard way ;D...
thx.
btw: i do not know a single tac-scort who carries sci-team at all, due to shared cd with tt ^^ (may i do but do not know about
but make a sci build with the same ship
, with a tac and a sci, and i bet the tac wins
...you really think my tac-wells outclasses a sci-wells, or a tac-bug a sci-bug?!
edit: tested different ships and builds in pvp (owning 25 ships out of all classes), so my answer is not without any experience
I agree from the standpoint of when sci in a sci ship is alone it shows, instead of nerfing the science skills they should have nerfed the tact captains ability to boost certain skills, it's really poor balance technique because not all pvpers pvp 100% of the time nor should they be required to do so to do anything.
It's kinda like giving your medic buddy rubber bullets while you keep the real bullets because you're tactical and the only time he can do any damage is when you switch out his ammo temporarily while you two are fighting together. The moment he goes back to fighting solo without your bullets to improve his damage output he's screwed.
That's what I'm seeing. Science skills are the key reason why space travel is possible in this game and because of science skills on captains extra damage can unfold not to mention CC but for some reason the devs have it in their head that science skills don't really do what they did in the series so science skills on a science captain are pretty much useless for the most part unless you are dealing with healing and even then....
Ever try to heal on the ground as a science captain? Same thing applies. It's far easier to heal as an engineer on the ground then it is to heal as a science captain, it's like they've forgotten that doctors in sick bays were where everyone went to get healing especially in battle situations. Just beam down a device bla bla blah and everyone thinks that's perfectly normal.
Completely wonky and non canon stuff going on here.
So, Sci/Sci vs Tac/Sci with the same ship and BOff arrangements.
Same pets.
Same abilities.
A mirror match.
And you're dead certain the Tac/Sci guy will win?
because tac's could boost those dmg makers, and sci's dont have that kind of effect in boff skills or consoles
the rest is a captain skill battle wich i believe its very balanced, leaving sci's with no extra boost on the ship's effect
only chance i see is the subnuke clearing a couple captain skills, but the tac guy would be too stupid if he just popped all the skills at once
...
--> sn
--> vm
--> ss
--> fbp
--> shield strip
--> cluster transphasics/hy plasma (what a lot of scis seem to run in pvp these days)
...
---> (add your own crappy sci-tactic ;D)...
........
what can i do as a tac against such attacks? almost nothing without a sci on side!
and if i focus on sci abilities as a tac to run on my build? i probably will loose a lot of survivability i guess. where to put he, where to put tss f.e.?
....this leads to nowhere i guess, because it's mostly about believe and feeling. test it out and you will know for sure, that's my suggestion
btw: own no more respec tokens, so i'm out from testing ;(...
scramble sensors does nothing against a skilled player
viral matrix sucks now with human boffs giving 100% subsystem repair plus it can't disable shields and it is countered by engineering team
cluster and high yeld plasmas are not skills, and they can be boosted better by tacs
leaving you with repulsors which was nerfed because of tacs
and fbp which can be stupidly boosted by tacs even without prtg
i said with the same build btw
...shield strip kills ^^...
ss always at least confuses
vm is absolutely effective (running 3 humans on most of my builds)
...again: shared cd with tt. so no fun in et without an rsp ready ^^
...where the sn has gone?!
torps can be better boosted by tacs, yep.... they're tacs... but again:
tacs do damage.
scis kill.
don't believe it?
again: test it out proper before asking for a nerf plz
of course tacs do more damage. you complain about boosted sci-damage from tacs. then checkout the full effectiveness of the sci-class to see if this really is an issue. it's not from here, absolutely
...may i try it from the other side later (giving my sci-boffs the suggested abilites, grabbing my wells and see if i can do more damage than with current abilites.... my guess: i will just die a lot more due to less survivability).
we are playing star trek online and this is its forum, wake up !
tacs do damage, scis kill ? how can you kill someone without damage ?
the objective of scientists is to use alternative ways of dmaging, or skills that makes the enemy vulnerable
but since those alternative ways of damage were nerfed a lot
and there are no windows of oportunity because they were nerfed
shield stripping is so useless that i feel bad for saying it
well, the rest, the rest is energy siphon that i think it is the only viable option that tacs can't touch
and fbp/repulsors that tac's can boost a lot
try 2 copies of fbp or repulsors in those 2 builds, and let me know who won lol
lol... you ever pvp?! i really start to ask myself if that is the case ^^.... they kill by shutting down, debuffing, etc.... how many times a sci comes on side and just perform the tactic as described? a lot of times.... and how many times it works? quite more often than you seem to believe...
shield strip isn't effective?
ill start using vm3 and 2 copies of tachyon beam from now on !!!!
looool
Why do you think Sci's job is damage?
What about the design of the Sci captain indicates to you that the Sci captain's "job" is damage?
It isn't.
The Sci captain's job is force multiplication and kill set ups.
There is no career that does this better.
Why would I?
When someone uses FBP...stop shooting them,
Then when a Sci captain uses SNB (removes protection) or SS (debuffs resistance) they should not be able to use any weapons or tactical skills or skills like Warp Plasma correct?
You, are quite clearly, focusing on the wrong aspects of what a Sci captain should be doing.
No.
Sensor scan is an AoE. It can require up to FIVE SCIENCE TEAMS to clear.
It's also needed to clear that other important debuff we keep discussing, SNB.
There is nothing you can do to counter the buff strip aside from hope you have more buffs.
Stripping defensive buffs are the key to kills.
Understanding howto use Subnuc is critical.
You're still, erroneously, thinking about "science strike" and a Sci captain functioning like a Tac captain.
You need to spend some more time thinking about what a Science captain is designed to do.
If PvE were more like PvP, then there would be less discussion - eh? It's not though...
borgresearcher stated directly in his first post in the thread that these are his concerns regarding PvP.
It's a PvP conversation in the PvP forum, because it is about a PvP concern.
The responses he is getting are based on PvP.
but tactical not boosting 4 sci skills inst going to make sci captains deal more damage in pve. but thats par for the course of pve'er logic
Based on the thought process expressed in similar threads not in the PvP forums - they're talking about the following two things happening:
Remove Tac ability to boost damage for those abilities.
Boost the damage of those abilities.
So it would result in an increased amount of damage on their part in PvE.
My KDF Sci runs a no-Tac Heght'a (3 Sci/1 Eng) - he's there for debuff/control - tank busting, spam denial, movement control, heal interruption, etc, etc, etc.
My Fed Sci is there to detect cloakers - decloak them - tackle them/debuff them - toss a heal/help against alphas - etc, etc, etc.
They're both facilitators. They're not damage guys. They're all but useless in PvE because of that. Anything they do, a Tac could actually do better if it was even warranted doing...which in the majority of cases it is not.
So with borg talking about damage - I see it as a PvE discussion. There's just so much that a Sci can do other than damage when it comes to PvP...
That's a PvE environment design issue and not an issue with Subnuc.
It's also not really relevant to this discussion.