Chaining emergency power to shields has only one problem... there is an increased cooldown on them. If it was only 15 instead of 30, that would be better.
you can use 2x EPtS or you can easly chain 2 different EPtX using 2 purple dmg crtl officers
we have several good space sets, covariant, resilient, regenerative shields...
only 3 points in starship powe insulator are a great help against tetryon weapons. there is a skill named threat control and there are science consoles to increase/decrease your threat generation. use tss and rsp to regenerate your shields, you have also batteries and doffs to have a chance to regenerate shield using BFI. There are skill and consoles to reduce hull damage, and ability to repair quickly (AuxtS has only 15 secs cd and do not share a CD with TT or HE).
A cruiser is the best ship to tank, if you really want to tank.
And by tanking, I mean facing the cube the whole time and shooting non stop with DHC-DC weapons. Proof me.
that is your problem... tanking is not just sitting and watching the cube firing at you... attacking a cube is not simply firing with your weapons...
Also, group matches are not viable for balancing, since there are too many variables. Invalidates the argument right there. You don't blame lack of teamwork on a ship class.
again... if you think to play alone, than you are playing the wrong game. And if your problem is playing a random stf, do not play random stfs... use publicelitestf channel to fing decent players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Eurialo, I don't want to tank. I would prefer a cruiser to tank, but they seldome can. I already use Aux to Structural.
But with an escort, you need to face forward to the target. Of course, I can always hit evasive manovers and fly out of its range, but that is hardly constructive for the team
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
that is your problem... tanking is not just sitting and watching the cube firing at you... attacking a cube is not simply firing with your weapons...
Tanking is pretty much sitting and watching the cube fire at you. You are still firing your weapons, but they are not doing as much damage as the escorts (granted, unless you have a fail PUG...).
If you have points in threat control, that's when tanking becomes a vital part of a team. You are drawing the aggro (and gaining the damage resistance bonus), keeping aggro away from the fragile escorts, and showing off all at the same time.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Tanking is pretty much sitting and watching the cube fire at you. You are still firing your weapons, but they are not doing as much damage as the escorts (granted, unless you have a fail PUG...).
If you have points in threat control, that's when tanking becomes a vital part of a team. You are drawing the aggro (and gaining the damage resistance bonus), keeping aggro away from the fragile escorts, and showing off all at the same time.
No, tanking is holding the aggro of an NPC and avoiding death by whatever means available. If you can remain alive for long periods while your team does the damage you're tanking.
This is why escorts tank so much better than cruisers. Their def. bonus (speed tanking) lets them avoid getting hit 9 out of 10 shots fired at them...and their healing abilities can easily take that 1 hit and heal it. Cruisers on the other hand take 6 out of 10 shots fired at them (10/10 if they sit) and rely on healing the damage to tank. Problem with that is, the risk to the cruiser is insanely higher than to the escort.
Biggest difference is the cruiser sacrifices its damage output to tank...where the escort can tank and still put out its full damage capability while at it.
Threat control as the skill does not function very well. Threat control 9 on a cruiser that does low damage (because its tanking) will still lose aggro to a 0 threat control, high damage escort very quickly. Only the new threat consoles and atk delta doff bonuses retain NPC hate. Heck, fact is you dont even need threat control skill ...the consoles and doff bonus is high enough on its own.
So the tank role is dead for the cruiser because the escort does it better. The science role of the science ship is dead because the escort's ridiculous damage output makes sci debuffs and crowd control obsolete (even if the sci skills did work properly they would still be a wasted slot on a team in the sense that having another escort would be better).
The devs have gone gung ho for DPS as the sole means of progressing in the game. That is typical of every PWI game as well. Why?
as a person that has flown all 3 categories of ships DPS is good and all but you need something to take the hits i constantly saw escorts getting poped by the tac cube when it was a full escort team on a STF we barely managed to get the optional however i flew with a pure cruiser group recently with myself in a offensively built galaxy R (build currently a work in progress but shaping up well) and we bossed everything with 7 minutes to spare on the clock and we were all cruisers with no deaths. Cruisers and sci ships are not dead their actions really only go unnoticed by the people with the big guns because the more or less zerg a enemy and pound em into the groundits the cruisers job to keep agro and patch people up and that amount of outside healing makes a huge difference and sci ship can clump enemies together and break out some serious stuff if they want to including being better at making bosses less tanky. Also btw i usually see more cruisers than escorts in social zones
Tanking is pretty much sitting and watching the cube fire at you. You are still firing your weapons, but they are not doing as much damage as the escorts (granted, unless you have a fail PUG...).
if you think so, only a "god mode" button will help you tanking!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
That isn't tanking, that's kiting and any ship can do it.
I beg to differ, kiting is a very important "subset" of tanking and maxing out defence in a cruiser can be as beneficial to your overall tanking capability as maxing out resists/heals/dps/threat and by "tanking" I mean the ability to focus enemy fire on you and being able to survive it.
Escorts can tank but they can't tank for extended periods of time and still deal "nominal" damage at the same time. That is the difference. The problem is that in most PvE content NPCs explode before a well-built escort runs out of defensive skills.
I was on a HOSE run yesterday with 4 escorts (from the same fleet). It was incredible. The typical PUG's teamplay can be compared to a novice playing a violin for the first time, and that team's teamplay was like a world-class virtuoso playing since he was 3. Heals flying around, constant APB and NPCs almost incessantly pounding my cruiser made it the smoothest HOSE run I've ever seen. When the Queen's ship exploded I immediately got 4 friend invites . I guess they didn't expect such a "performance" from a cruiser.
I once on my first ESTF kited the tactical cube the whole fight.
After my alpha strike, I hit evasive maneovers and then stayed 15kms away from it. The other 4 attacked it and after a time killed it, and it was still trying to get me kiting when it blew up.
Did I tank it? No. I kited it, and it took no skill.
You can try to speed tank in a cruiser too, and its damage output will not fall as badly as an escort's one.
I would not mind if speed tanking became less effective. But on the other hand, I don't want the actual health, resistance and shield stats changed on the escorts.
Of course, I would not mind if Cruisers got a doubled health and shield bonus. Maybe then the nooby players could tank with cruisers too, letting my escort concentrate on making the cube go boom.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Try running "no win" without tanks or Sci ships. You might get to wave 5. That content cannot be ran successfuly without them. Starbase blockade cannot be done well without heals and crowd control. In fact most of the fleet missions require a Sci ship to be completed with any type of success. Only STF's perhaps dont need them as much unless on Cure someone blows a cube early and the team needs a good Sci ship to hold back the tide of raptors. In my opinion in "team" play a tank and Sci ship are a must.
But sadly in solo PVE missions you will do best in an Escourt.
The most successful Teams i have seen are 2 High DPS Escourts, 1 big tank Cruiser with high threat level and 2 Sci ships with holds and repels to direct traffic and buff/heal the escourts.
Instead of nerfing escorts, lets advocate a change in how the game recognises success. DPS isnt everything, this should also be reflected in the number of times an escort blows up. Give them the incentive not to die. Die = less reward.
I don't think you've considered this through very well. If escorts are penalized by blowing up how would that incentivize cruiser or sci play? If anything it would incentivize everyone to fly with -TH consoles and do as little damage as possible! What a backwards mess that would be! Furthermore how would it make it worth a cruiser or sci's time to heal or support anyone else, and that is crtitical since most of those ship's extra abilities are in support of a group. No, had you thought this through you would've realized what you really want is for healing and maybe damage taken to be counted instead of just damage. But, I thought that was the case already? I'm pretty sure healing done was counted for scoring purposes?
But hey! Thankfully the game is built in such a way that what I would consider a fail cruiser is still able to help towards a team's goal without being totally irrelevant right?
The most successful Teams i have seen are 2 High DPS Escourts, 1 big tank Cruiser with high threat level and 2 Sci ships with holds and repels to direct traffic and buff/heal the escourts.
I have to agree that is probably the best overall mix for any situation, except I would change those sci vessels with full carriers.... full carriers are a thing of beauty if piloted by a good player. Of those the Recluse seems the be either the best or the one most often piloted by really competent players. If anything I'd imagine full carriers are the ships we should be watching with envy.
People like to post their gear and boff setup without mentioning the most important factor of all, their skill tree. Gear and boff abilities mean nothing without an adequate skill tree to accompany them.
Sure. Skills are...
Tactical:
Starship attack patterns 9 , weapons training 9, energy weapons 9, projectile weapons 9, Manoevers 9, targeting systems 9, Energy weapon specialisation 9, projectile weapon specialisation 9
Antiprotons are good if you got a high critical chance, while Disruptor has a really nice proc. Plasma weapons need the romulan consoles and the romulan set 2 piece, but they can be devastating too
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I already have some of those, but the plasma torpedoes do get a good use out of the projectile ones.
It has a 9 sec cooldown, and it can really hurt if you spam it with 3 officers.
As for the Honour Guard, I use it because sometimes I swap another DHC out for the Omega torpedo, which I high yield.
An alpha strike with an Omega Energy bolt and a barrage of hyper plasma torpedoes can do great damage. I have observed Energy bolt criticals up to 120k damage.
I already got a monotanium console, as well as a field generator.
I tried using 2 -threat ones, but I did so much damage they were useless.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
For a very tanky fleet patrol escort against elite tac cubes, a little sacrifice in dps, this is the build I know works very well (funny thing is there are other possibilities). The skill tree is optimized for both space and ground combat. Click different tabs to see the reputation traits/skill tree/gear choice. Link
Duty officers are: 2 purple conn officer tac team reduction + 3 damage control doffs.
Bridge officers are all human (leadership trait).
I know for a fact this build gives you over 100% defense bonus, with well over 6k dps pretty consistently.
Edit: With this build, you can pretty much tank donatra, the queen diamond, elite tac cube as long as you don't let the heavy plasma torp hit you. You don't even need to worry about that since the AoE scatter volley will take care of that for you. Hit brace for impact whenever you see the torp spread buff on the borg.
Heck, you can even make that build better. Reducing Shield Performance to 6 ranks gives a 0/-1/0/0 to your power levels, boosting Warp Core Potential gives a +2/+2/+3/+3, so if you do both you get a net +2/+1/+3/+3 with 1500 extra skill points left over for anywhere you care to put them.
Heck, you can even make that build better. Reducing Shield Performance to 6 ranks gives a 0/-1/0/0 to your power levels, boosting Warp Core Potential gives a +2/+2/+3/+3, so if you do both you get a net +2/+1/+3/+3 with 1500 extra skill points left over for anywhere you care to put them.
Thanks I'm already doing that.
I'm happy for all the advice, but I would like to point it out that Leadership is getting nerfed out of usefullness.
Sell your human bridge officers while you can.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Imagine having 5 of these escorts in stf? Obviously they have to be flown by pilots with a clue. I think they'll do very well against any opponent. Maybe averaging 5min every stf (kase and hive are an exception)?
Possible, I just did CSE with optional in 8 minutes. I think the team was 3 tacticals, 1 science, and my engineer in a bortas ( Which can be called an escort cruiser that turns like a dead horse) .
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Imagine having 5 of these escorts in stf? Obviously they have to be flown by pilots with a clue. I think they'll do very well against any opponent. Maybe averaging 5min every stf (kase and hive are an exception)?
Also 5 sci captains flying sci vessels can do a great and fast job. Durring season 6 I played ise twice in a random team of sci/sci players and we did it in less than 8 minutes.
Actually using the romulan hyper plasma torpedo every ship can have a great dps so I will not wonder if a random team can finish every stf in 6-8 minutes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I have to agree that is probably the best overall mix for any situation, except I would change those sci vessels with full carriers.... full carriers are a thing of beauty if piloted by a good player. Of those the Recluse seems the be either the best or the one most often piloted by really competent players. If anything I'd imagine full carriers are the ships we should be watching with envy.
It amazes me how few people realize just how good carriers are.
K eurialo, since you don't seem to grasp the intent of this thread, maybe if I help you? Your post is a little funny because you are talking about dps dps dps and not saying anything how your sci vessels with sci captains are sciencing? Don't preach to the choir and try to convince me that certain cruisers and science vessels can dps, I know they can. That's not the issue and/or the reason why this thread was created though.
What were those sci ships you're talking about? Would you classify them pure science vessels?
Did they have a lt cmdr tactical on their vessel?
Were they using subsystem targeting?
Were they using viral matrix?
Were they using photonic shockwave?
Were they using feedback pulse?
Were they supporting each other?
Were they using scramble sensors?
Were they using photonic officer?
Or was their focus entirely about dps dps dps dps dps e.i spacebar spamming negh with rom torps and no actual consideration of playing their role?
You did not understand my post. It was an answer to players thinking that sci vessels are useless. A sci ship usually hasn't the dps of a escort, but debuffing your opponent can push it so a team of sci captains flying sci ships can finish a stf in a few minutes even if their ship do not have a great base dps. What I wrote in the second part of my post is simply that a hyper plasma torpedo can give enough dps to every ship regardless its build.
Finally talking about science ships I think to ship like the lrsvr or a Wells (even using only one lt tactical boff).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Comments
you can use 2x EPtS or you can easly chain 2 different EPtX using 2 purple dmg crtl officers
we have several good space sets, covariant, resilient, regenerative shields...
only 3 points in starship powe insulator are a great help against tetryon weapons. there is a skill named threat control and there are science consoles to increase/decrease your threat generation. use tss and rsp to regenerate your shields, you have also batteries and doffs to have a chance to regenerate shield using BFI. There are skill and consoles to reduce hull damage, and ability to repair quickly (AuxtS has only 15 secs cd and do not share a CD with TT or HE).
A cruiser is the best ship to tank, if you really want to tank.
that is your problem... tanking is not just sitting and watching the cube firing at you... attacking a cube is not simply firing with your weapons...
again... if you think to play alone, than you are playing the wrong game. And if your problem is playing a random stf, do not play random stfs... use publicelitestf channel to fing decent players.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Eurialo, I don't want to tank. I would prefer a cruiser to tank, but they seldome can. I already use Aux to Structural.
But with an escort, you need to face forward to the target. Of course, I can always hit evasive manovers and fly out of its range, but that is hardly constructive for the team
Tanking is pretty much sitting and watching the cube fire at you. You are still firing your weapons, but they are not doing as much damage as the escorts (granted, unless you have a fail PUG...).
If you have points in threat control, that's when tanking becomes a vital part of a team. You are drawing the aggro (and gaining the damage resistance bonus), keeping aggro away from the fragile escorts, and showing off all at the same time.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
No, tanking is holding the aggro of an NPC and avoiding death by whatever means available. If you can remain alive for long periods while your team does the damage you're tanking.
This is why escorts tank so much better than cruisers. Their def. bonus (speed tanking) lets them avoid getting hit 9 out of 10 shots fired at them...and their healing abilities can easily take that 1 hit and heal it. Cruisers on the other hand take 6 out of 10 shots fired at them (10/10 if they sit) and rely on healing the damage to tank. Problem with that is, the risk to the cruiser is insanely higher than to the escort.
Biggest difference is the cruiser sacrifices its damage output to tank...where the escort can tank and still put out its full damage capability while at it.
Threat control as the skill does not function very well. Threat control 9 on a cruiser that does low damage (because its tanking) will still lose aggro to a 0 threat control, high damage escort very quickly. Only the new threat consoles and atk delta doff bonuses retain NPC hate. Heck, fact is you dont even need threat control skill ...the consoles and doff bonus is high enough on its own.
So the tank role is dead for the cruiser because the escort does it better. The science role of the science ship is dead because the escort's ridiculous damage output makes sci debuffs and crowd control obsolete (even if the sci skills did work properly they would still be a wasted slot on a team in the sense that having another escort would be better).
The devs have gone gung ho for DPS as the sole means of progressing in the game. That is typical of every PWI game as well. Why?
DPS is easier to monetize.
if you think so, only a "god mode" button will help you tanking!
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I beg to differ, kiting is a very important "subset" of tanking and maxing out defence in a cruiser can be as beneficial to your overall tanking capability as maxing out resists/heals/dps/threat and by "tanking" I mean the ability to focus enemy fire on you and being able to survive it.
Escorts can tank but they can't tank for extended periods of time and still deal "nominal" damage at the same time. That is the difference. The problem is that in most PvE content NPCs explode before a well-built escort runs out of defensive skills.
I was on a HOSE run yesterday with 4 escorts (from the same fleet). It was incredible. The typical PUG's teamplay can be compared to a novice playing a violin for the first time, and that team's teamplay was like a world-class virtuoso playing since he was 3. Heals flying around, constant APB and NPCs almost incessantly pounding my cruiser made it the smoothest HOSE run I've ever seen. When the Queen's ship exploded I immediately got 4 friend invites
I once on my first ESTF kited the tactical cube the whole fight.
After my alpha strike, I hit evasive maneovers and then stayed 15kms away from it. The other 4 attacked it and after a time killed it, and it was still trying to get me kiting when it blew up.
Did I tank it? No. I kited it, and it took no skill.
You can try to speed tank in a cruiser too, and its damage output will not fall as badly as an escort's one.
I would not mind if speed tanking became less effective. But on the other hand, I don't want the actual health, resistance and shield stats changed on the escorts.
Of course, I would not mind if Cruisers got a doubled health and shield bonus. Maybe then the nooby players could tank with cruisers too, letting my escort concentrate on making the cube go boom.
But sadly in solo PVE missions you will do best in an Escourt.
The most successful Teams i have seen are 2 High DPS Escourts, 1 big tank Cruiser with high threat level and 2 Sci ships with holds and repels to direct traffic and buff/heal the escourts.
I don't think you've considered this through very well. If escorts are penalized by blowing up how would that incentivize cruiser or sci play? If anything it would incentivize everyone to fly with -TH consoles and do as little damage as possible! What a backwards mess that would be! Furthermore how would it make it worth a cruiser or sci's time to heal or support anyone else, and that is crtitical since most of those ship's extra abilities are in support of a group. No, had you thought this through you would've realized what you really want is for healing and maybe damage taken to be counted instead of just damage. But, I thought that was the case already? I'm pretty sure healing done was counted for scoring purposes?
But hey! Thankfully the game is built in such a way that what I would consider a fail cruiser is still able to help towards a team's goal without being totally irrelevant right?
I have to agree that is probably the best overall mix for any situation, except I would change those sci vessels with full carriers.... full carriers are a thing of beauty if piloted by a good player. Of those the Recluse seems the be either the best or the one most often piloted by really competent players. If anything I'd imagine full carriers are the ships we should be watching with envy.
Sure. Skills are...
Tactical:
Starship attack patterns 9 , weapons training 9, energy weapons 9, projectile weapons 9, Manoevers 9, targeting systems 9, Energy weapon specialisation 9, projectile weapon specialisation 9
Engineer:
Hull repair 9 ,Structural integrity 9, warp core efficeincy 6, Electro plasma systems 3, Impulse thrusters 6 , Warp core potential 9 , Hull plating 6, shield performance 6, weapon performance 6, Armor reinforcements 3 (may need 6)
Science :
Shield emitters 9, Shield systems 9, Power insulators 3, Inertial dampeners 3
Ground :
grenade 6, weapon proficiency 9, Combat specialsit 9, shield generator 9, special forces 3, squad command 3, willpower 3, combat armor 3.
Reputation powers :
Omega weapon proficiency, Omega weapon training, Regenerative shield augmentation, Omega graviton amplifier,Medical nanite cloud.
Lethality, Precision, Reactive shielding, Sensor targeting assault, Quantum singularity manipulation.
It has a 9 sec cooldown, and it can really hurt if you spam it with 3 officers.
As for the Honour Guard, I use it because sometimes I swap another DHC out for the Omega torpedo, which I high yield.
An alpha strike with an Omega Energy bolt and a barrage of hyper plasma torpedoes can do great damage. I have observed Energy bolt criticals up to 120k damage.
I already got a monotanium console, as well as a field generator.
I tried using 2 -threat ones, but I did so much damage they were useless.
Heck, you can even make that build better. Reducing Shield Performance to 6 ranks gives a 0/-1/0/0 to your power levels, boosting Warp Core Potential gives a +2/+2/+3/+3, so if you do both you get a net +2/+1/+3/+3 with 1500 extra skill points left over for anywhere you care to put them.
Thanks I'm already doing that.
I'm happy for all the advice, but I would like to point it out that Leadership is getting nerfed out of usefullness.
Sell your human bridge officers while you can.
Possible, I just did CSE with optional in 8 minutes. I think the team was 3 tacticals, 1 science, and my engineer in a bortas ( Which can be called an escort cruiser that turns like a dead horse) .
Also 5 sci captains flying sci vessels can do a great and fast job. Durring season 6 I played ise twice in a random team of sci/sci players and we did it in less than 8 minutes.
Actually using the romulan hyper plasma torpedo every ship can have a great dps so I will not wonder if a random team can finish every stf in 6-8 minutes.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
It amazes me how few people realize just how good carriers are.
You did not understand my post. It was an answer to players thinking that sci vessels are useless. A sci ship usually hasn't the dps of a escort, but debuffing your opponent can push it so a team of sci captains flying sci ships can finish a stf in a few minutes even if their ship do not have a great base dps. What I wrote in the second part of my post is simply that a hyper plasma torpedo can give enough dps to every ship regardless its build.
Finally talking about science ships I think to ship like the lrsvr or a Wells (even using only one lt tactical boff).
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves