SHOULD, SHOULDN"T... really people. What egotistical garbage. What hubris! Other then as a mental exercise what ship model become tier 5 and fleet ships is immaterial. I'd much rather they redo the entire ships model system. Have an internal layout, and have a model that can be used with that layout. Some ships layouts and models should be unique of course, but the reality of the trek universe is most starships are pretty much interchangable.
I play KDF. I could care less about the skin on any ship I kill.
I firmly belive there should be a tier-5 or fleet version of every canon ship in the game. And in the case of the KDF using one skin/model to represent several different internal layouts.
I firmly belive there is no reason for there not to be so. PvP combat happen so fast anyway that its really unlikely any player is really going to have time to figure out what an enemy player ships is set up with. There is so much variety as it is now in ship hulls that only a hand full or players can keep it strait as it is, and its a waste of time to bother. Its far more important to know what you can do with YOUR starship.
Enemy starship.. doesn't matter what it looks like. Its a STARSHIP.
Translation: Stirling doesn't understand canon at all.
Coming from the guy whose cherry picking external sources while simultaneously dismissing others that would be laughed out of the room, that's amusing.
And I'm still waiting on your highlighting of the 2409 entry to support your argument that modular design = "we can make any ship equal to any other ship".
And yet its still there along with its Andorian friend.
See above. Also, are you seriously making that argument that simply because something happens it must be accurate? How'd that work out for the whole "the world is flat" thing?
See above. Also, are you seriously making that argument that simply because something happens it must be accurate? How'd that work out for the whole "the world is flat" thing?
Are you seriously equating a video game with (lets face it) mostly made up sceience that tends to totally TRIBBLE on reaility at times (Genesis) with real science?
Are you seriously equating a video game with (lets face it) mostly made up sceience that tends to totally TRIBBLE on reaility at times (Genesis) with real science?
No, I'm not. I'm equating one equally ridiculous premise with another.
Coming from the guy whose cherry picking external sources
Cherry picking external sources? This game, Star Trek Online is not bound to canon. Does not follow canon. And is an external source all its own.
I cited sources that are this game's own documentation. The path to 2409 was written by a Cryptic employee and published on this game's official website, as well as in the novel. That's not an external sourc, FOR THIS GAME. It is canon, FOR THIS GAME.
This game, however, is NOT Star Trek canon.
You continually display an inability to understand that. This game doesn't work on any sort of hierarchy of ships like you suggest it does. It never has. This game is not an extension of th shows.
Is a terrible ship that doesn't belong at T5. Your point is what exactly?
My point is the Vulcan ship defies any sort of rules you tried to apply to the Miranda or any other ship. This game never intended to follow your rules. And even wrote up its own maguffin to sidestep the rules you're trying to place on it.
See above. Also, are you seriously making that argument that simply because something happens it must be accurate? How'd that work out for the whole "the world is flat" thing?
Those two statements don't work however.
The whole "the world is flat" was never accurate, or true. No matter how many people believed it, it was factually wrong. On the other hand, if something happens, then it is factually true, no matter what people's opinion on the matter.
So your statement here is nonsense.
So if we have 300+ year old ships, like the D'Kyr, 65 year old ships like the Ambassador, and nearly 40 year old ships such as the Saber and Nova and Defiant as T5 ships. Then a 130 year old ship is not exactly far fetched. Especially considering they're still in service in 2409.
Again, having at least 65 year old ships as T5 is canon, period, end of story. There is no debate about this point. It has happened, and as such it's objectively factual, anyone's opinion on it is simply irrelevant. So to say that the Miranda can't be T5 because it's too old does not fit with established facts in STO Canon.
Did they ever specify that their restriction was on the T1 cruiser, or if it includes the T2 cruiser, which was referred to as the Enterprise class until the next generation kiddies entered the scene?
And have they ruled out the Exeter class, for which they charge zen?
The ingame Miranda is not the canon Miranda, it's hull is shorter, the saucer thicker and the rollpod is completely different, also the Bridge module is a different shape, and the nacelle pylons are larger and at a different angle. The nacelles are also slightly different.
Besides the DS9 Miranda's must have been a minor refit as well as they had the glowing 24th century nacelles.
It is a 25th century refit based on a similar spaceframe.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As has already been established by the game's very own documentation, these ships are all 25th century ships. What you see on the outside is just a visual. This is explained in the Path to 2409 and in the official Star Trek Online novel, The Needs of the Many. The people who cracked this puzzle were Geordi LaForge and Miles O'Brien. Two rather effective engineering characters from the past shows.
The game's lore set it up so old ships can be flown at the end-game. Your argument doesn't work in the context of the game. That's why there's an Excelsior at T5. And a D'Kyr. And why the KDF can fly a B'Rel and an Archer Era RAPTOR at T5. Because the looks have nothing to do with the ship.
And CBS also is claimed to have said that they don't want "non faction" ships to be "freely available" yet we've had what looks like the second Breen invasion of Earth (and Q'onos) over the holidays...
Stances change.
On that note (as noted in my sig) let me reiterate my concept:
1. As many "forumites" get in a tizzy over TOS Connie = Oddessy, then reclass the ship. Connie was the 23rd century multi-role science/cruiser, therefore let's highlight the science part of that and make her a T5 science vessel, on a par with the DSSV.
2. Isn't the NX's basic frame an Akira with the warp nacelles inverted (and maybe a bit smaller?) Well, take a 25th Century Akira, invert nacelles, apply NX series paint, NX class at tier 5. As an Escort. Sorry ENT fans, you'll have to get used to your ship being a shielded version at T5...
Combine this with the full cruiser TMP Excelsior that's already at tier 5, and we have the same setup with "older series" ships that we do with the TNG-era ships - Defiant, escort. Intrepid, science. Galaxy, cruiser. ENT-era NX escort, TOS Connie Science, TMP Excelsior cruiser.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I'm gonna cast my vote for a T5 Miranda, though I've always thought it should have unique gameplay mechanic.
Namely that it runs 1 Commander Tactical BOFF slot, 1 Commander Science BOFF slot, and 1 Commander Engineering BOFF slot with a 4/3 fore/aft weapons arrangement and a 4/3/3 Engineering, Science, Tactical console set up for the fleet retrofit and 3/3/3 for the non-fleet retrofit that can be bought for 200k FC. Hull should be a bit on the light side and, like the T1 version it should have no bonus power levels, but be able to use Dual Cannons.
Ah, the poor, dear old Miranda. So misunderstood, so underrated.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
And CBS also is claimed to have said that they don't want "non faction" ships to be "freely available" yet we've had what looks like the second Breen invasion of Earth (and Q'onos) over the holidays...
.
One the Breen ship was not just given away like the Ambassador class or the first free Odyssey.
Two CBS does not want the T5 connie, I don't believe Cryptic is greedy and just mean...it can't be both. I refuse to believe Cryptic does not want to have the most Iconic ship both in and out of Star Trek and put a price tag on the back and give it a T5 slots unless they are told otherwise by CBS. pretty sure if CBS gave them the okay they will throw that girl in the game and put a price tag on it.
One the Breen ship was not just given away like the Ambassador class or the first free Odyssey.
Two CBS does not want the T5 connie, I don't believe Cryptic is greedy and just mean...it can't be both. I refuse to believe Cryptic does not want to have the most Iconic ship both in and out of Star Trek and put a price tag on the back and give it a T5 slots unless they are told otherwise by CBS. pretty sure if CBS gave them the okay they will throw that girl in the game and put a price tag on it.
I pretty much agree, this is why I always say Cryptic is saving it for a rainy day, or my newest theory is that they're working on a bundle for mega-giga dollars.
Give us a Miranda version of the Odyssey, like the Nebula is the Miranda version of the Galaxy, then I would say ya cool, but a tier 5 fleet Miranda? No, just no. The game is starting to become a joke with all of these antiques and alien faction ships being used by both sides.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Lol so much hate for such an iconic ship. Why? Why do you guys HATE it.
How many old games and movies had this ship in it?
I could see the fun in flying an older styled ship.. I mean some star trek fans are older.. 40+ and would feel more nostalgic flying around an old favorite rather than some Andorian TRIBBLE.
I mean hey.. We KDF get to fly around in awesome BoPs from back in the day.. we aren't forced to fly around newer looking ones.
Mirandas are shown fighting the Borg and the Dominion in the 24th century so there is no reason to believe that they would be incapable of 25th century combat with some upgrades.
The Miranda was first seen in Star Trek II and had a similar design to the Constitution Refit, so presumably they went into service around the same time, probably only a few years before the Excelsior, a ship that is still in service in the 25th century.
Also, the Centaur class, which is a skin for the Miranda, was also in service in the late 24th century.
Fleet versions of the Miranda make perfect sense. The Miranda is clearly the most versatile ship that Starfleet has ever designed, being in service longer than any other ship.
Mirandas are shown fighting the Borg and the Dominion in the 24th century so there is no reason to believe that they would be incapable of 25th century combat with some upgrades.
The Miranda was first seen in Star Trek II and had a similar design to the Constitution Refit, so presumably they went into service around the same time, probably only a few years before the Excelsior, a ship that is still in service in the 25th century.
Also, the Centaur class, which is a skin for the Miranda, was also in service in the late 24th century.
Fleet versions of the Miranda make perfect sense. The Miranda is clearly the most versatile ship that Starfleet has ever designed, being in service longer than any other ship.
Actually in certain portions of soft canon the Miranda was backdated to the pre-refit era and was originally built with TOS style nacelles/saucer and possibly deflector (can't remember).
Comments
I play KDF. I could care less about the skin on any ship I kill.
I firmly belive there should be a tier-5 or fleet version of every canon ship in the game. And in the case of the KDF using one skin/model to represent several different internal layouts.
I firmly belive there is no reason for there not to be so. PvP combat happen so fast anyway that its really unlikely any player is really going to have time to figure out what an enemy player ships is set up with. There is so much variety as it is now in ship hulls that only a hand full or players can keep it strait as it is, and its a waste of time to bother. Its far more important to know what you can do with YOUR starship.
Enemy starship.. doesn't matter what it looks like. Its a STARSHIP.
Coming from the guy whose cherry picking external sources while simultaneously dismissing others that would be laughed out of the room, that's amusing.
And I'm still waiting on your highlighting of the 2409 entry to support your argument that modular design = "we can make any ship equal to any other ship".
Is a terrible ship that doesn't belong at T5. Your point is what exactly?
Actually if you want to get technical is getting close to 300 years old.
Plus does anyone else find it funny that the Kumari and D'Kyr are T5 while the Connie is not when you consider this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn3eWz0Cc80
Seriously.
1) D'kyr doesn't belong at T5
2) Kumari isn't a 300 year old design
3) Connie doesn't belong at T5 either.
And yet its still there along with its Andorian friend.
See above. Also, are you seriously making that argument that simply because something happens it must be accurate? How'd that work out for the whole "the world is flat" thing?
whoopie do its still there and it isn't going any where
Kind of looks like its is. So now you're selectively using the new tech old design argument when its supports your argument but not when it doesn't.
Yeah why should a trek ship from what is now the only relevant part of trek not be there.
CBS said no on a T5 connie
Are you seriously equating a video game with (lets face it) mostly made up sceience that tends to totally TRIBBLE on reaility at times (Genesis) with real science?
yes but not the Miranda !! woot I don't think cbs cares about it the Miranda that is
Get your facts right. The STO Kumari is named for, not a copy of, the ENT Kumari. Just like an F-35 isnt a P-38.
No, I'm not. I'm equating one equally ridiculous premise with another.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Cherry picking external sources? This game, Star Trek Online is not bound to canon. Does not follow canon. And is an external source all its own.
I cited sources that are this game's own documentation. The path to 2409 was written by a Cryptic employee and published on this game's official website, as well as in the novel. That's not an external sourc, FOR THIS GAME. It is canon, FOR THIS GAME.
This game, however, is NOT Star Trek canon.
You continually display an inability to understand that. This game doesn't work on any sort of hierarchy of ships like you suggest it does. It never has. This game is not an extension of th shows.
My point is the Vulcan ship defies any sort of rules you tried to apply to the Miranda or any other ship. This game never intended to follow your rules. And even wrote up its own maguffin to sidestep the rules you're trying to place on it.
Those two statements don't work however.
The whole "the world is flat" was never accurate, or true. No matter how many people believed it, it was factually wrong. On the other hand, if something happens, then it is factually true, no matter what people's opinion on the matter.
So your statement here is nonsense.
So if we have 300+ year old ships, like the D'Kyr, 65 year old ships like the Ambassador, and nearly 40 year old ships such as the Saber and Nova and Defiant as T5 ships. Then a 130 year old ship is not exactly far fetched. Especially considering they're still in service in 2409.
Again, having at least 65 year old ships as T5 is canon, period, end of story. There is no debate about this point. It has happened, and as such it's objectively factual, anyone's opinion on it is simply irrelevant. So to say that the Miranda can't be T5 because it's too old does not fit with established facts in STO Canon.
And have they ruled out the Exeter class, for which they charge zen?
Besides the DS9 Miranda's must have been a minor refit as well as they had the glowing 24th century nacelles.
It is a 25th century refit based on a similar spaceframe.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well said. +1
And CBS also is claimed to have said that they don't want "non faction" ships to be "freely available" yet we've had what looks like the second Breen invasion of Earth (and Q'onos) over the holidays...
Stances change.
On that note (as noted in my sig) let me reiterate my concept:
1. As many "forumites" get in a tizzy over TOS Connie = Oddessy, then reclass the ship. Connie was the 23rd century multi-role science/cruiser, therefore let's highlight the science part of that and make her a T5 science vessel, on a par with the DSSV.
2. Isn't the NX's basic frame an Akira with the warp nacelles inverted (and maybe a bit smaller?) Well, take a 25th Century Akira, invert nacelles, apply NX series paint, NX class at tier 5. As an Escort. Sorry ENT fans, you'll have to get used to your ship being a shielded version at T5...
Combine this with the full cruiser TMP Excelsior that's already at tier 5, and we have the same setup with "older series" ships that we do with the TNG-era ships - Defiant, escort. Intrepid, science. Galaxy, cruiser. ENT-era NX escort, TOS Connie Science, TMP Excelsior cruiser.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Namely that it runs 1 Commander Tactical BOFF slot, 1 Commander Science BOFF slot, and 1 Commander Engineering BOFF slot with a 4/3 fore/aft weapons arrangement and a 4/3/3 Engineering, Science, Tactical console set up for the fleet retrofit and 3/3/3 for the non-fleet retrofit that can be bought for 200k FC. Hull should be a bit on the light side and, like the T1 version it should have no bonus power levels, but be able to use Dual Cannons.
Ah, the poor, dear old Miranda. So misunderstood, so underrated.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
One the Breen ship was not just given away like the Ambassador class or the first free Odyssey.
Two CBS does not want the T5 connie, I don't believe Cryptic is greedy and just mean...it can't be both. I refuse to believe Cryptic does not want to have the most Iconic ship both in and out of Star Trek and put a price tag on the back and give it a T5 slots unless they are told otherwise by CBS. pretty sure if CBS gave them the okay they will throw that girl in the game and put a price tag on it.
I pretty much agree, this is why I always say Cryptic is saving it for a rainy day, or my newest theory is that they're working on a bundle for mega-giga dollars.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
I could see it as T5/Fleet Miranda
How many old games and movies had this ship in it?
I could see the fun in flying an older styled ship.. I mean some star trek fans are older.. 40+ and would feel more nostalgic flying around an old favorite rather than some Andorian TRIBBLE.
I mean hey.. We KDF get to fly around in awesome BoPs from back in the day.. we aren't forced to fly around newer looking ones.
woo miranda!
The Miranda was first seen in Star Trek II and had a similar design to the Constitution Refit, so presumably they went into service around the same time, probably only a few years before the Excelsior, a ship that is still in service in the 25th century.
Also, the Centaur class, which is a skin for the Miranda, was also in service in the late 24th century.
Fleet versions of the Miranda make perfect sense. The Miranda is clearly the most versatile ship that Starfleet has ever designed, being in service longer than any other ship.
Actually in certain portions of soft canon the Miranda was backdated to the pre-refit era and was originally built with TOS style nacelles/saucer and possibly deflector (can't remember).